Guild Wars 2

People like to nitpick about something simply because it’s different from what they’re used to. They fail to see any merit in those systems because of this, which is the actual sad part in all this.

Or, there aren’t merits to the new way. I don’t know why some people insist on dismissing the views of other players who disagree with them.

Creating retro-active leveling shackles is just such obvious fail. It should have been this way at release…or not at all. Screw the new players, it’s a 2 year old game, cater to the player and player base that has played since day one and continues too. It’s not like a million new players are going to turn up and suddenly think GW2 is the bees knees because of the NPE.

Yeah, they’re doing a free week or something, and if it were a few months ago then I would have pushed several of my friends to give the game a try, but I can’t in good conscience suggest they play the game in its current state.

If you didn’t have all your 1 point skills by level 50 or so, they must have been really crappy skills. Most of the skills you’d have been missing by then would be six, ten or thirty point skills.

Maybe, but it would at least be an incremental movement towards that skill. Besides which, you can earn SP through the map unlocks and through scrolls, so if you hit a level and it gave you your 4th skillpoint and you wanted to buy one that’s 6, then you could have options to boost it over the top. With the current system, if you get zero SP for five levels and then six on the next, then you have less options to do anything on the 4th level of that range. The old system worked better because of how fluidly it interacted with other systems.

The trait system is not the major part of what makes GW2 so different, at least not from my point of view.

You’re wrong. The trait system is vital in this game, a fully traited character plays vastly differently than an untraited one, especially in certain classes, and holding off when players are able to trait up makes the gameplay experience considerably more shallow until you get there.

What I have a problem with is that most people who complain simply complain with no real reason.

If they are complaining, then they have a reason. You might not understand their reason, and perhaps even they aren’t able to articulate exactly what their reason is, but that doesn’t make their reason any less valid, or any less important for ANet to pay attention to it.

-There is little to no level gating in the NPE that isn’t account-wide. Weapon skills are unlocked by level, yes, but those levels are easily gained and are therefore negligible.

Also trait acquisition is gated further back in the leveling process than it used to be.

-Your point on the trait system is sort of valid, but unconnected, and if so is poorly executed. Access to skills can be quite difficult in GW1, especially elite skills. You’d need to hunt down a boss, kill it, and use a Signet of Capture on its corpse to get it. Or you could pay to unlock it and learn it with a tome, either bought from another player or obtained in Hard Mode. Is this not similar to the trait system?

This is not GW1. Nobody kittening cares about GW1. This is GW2, and in GW2, traits didn’t used to be such a hassle, and now they are a hassle, and GW2 players do not like it.

-GW2 is still very different from other MMO’s. You failed to mention anything about the NPE that makes it “conform” to other MMO’s besides repeatedly stating “it’s obvious”.

It is obvious. In vanilla GW2, weapon skills unlocked via use, in a pattern that was highly unusual to MMOs. In NPE GW2, they unlock by level, almost exactly like 90% of other MMOs would.

All I see from that is you just chiming in hoping you would sound smart, but are now running away and hiding behind other people’s posts when someone called you out. If you don’t like that, then don’t post in a place called “Guild Wars 2 Discussion”. Go post on your social media page or whatever. Discussion means discussion like debates and arguments, especially when you post in a thread with an ongoing discussion.

Ultimately, the point of this forum is to express our opinions in the hopes that we can make GW2 the best game it can be. You are serving nothing by trying to belittle your fellow posters and their valid opinions about the state of the game.

Leveling in GW2 used to be more fun than in any other MMO i played so far. It was a stupid decision to change the one thing they got absolutely right.

Elsdragon.5109:

People like to nitpick about something simply because it’s different from what they’re used to. They fail to see any merit in those systems because of this, which is the actual sad part in all this.

Yea totally, we made this system, definitely not to please the players, eff them right, we are the boss we do what we want.

Ohoni.6057:

Yeah, they’re doing a free week or something, and if it were a few months ago then I would have pushed several of my friends to give the game a try, but I can’t in good conscience suggest they play the game in its current state.

Seconding this. When my friends think of me, they think of gw2 because of how much I play and talk about it (and visa versa- they think of me when they think of gw2). I haven’t encouraged a single friend to try and play right now because I couldn’t do so proudly like I used to.

Kuldebar.1897:

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

Yep…in the old days, one trait point didn’t actually get you anything. You needed five to actually unlock a point. That 1 point is like five of the old points.

Yep…in the old days, one trait point didn’t actually get you anything. You needed five to actually unlock a point. That 1 point is like five of the old points.

Honestly, I don’t mind that specific change. I don’t see it as a huge improvement, and it was at least nice to be able to buff up some stats each level, but the 5-point thing isn’t a problem. The problem is that at level 49 I only have four of these 5-point points to play with, whereas this time last year at level 40 I would have had seven of them, and been able to put them into second tier Traits as well. THAT bothers me.

Vayne.8563:

Kuldebar.1897:

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

Yep…in the old days, one trait point didn’t actually get you anything. You needed five to actually unlock a point. That 1 point is like five of the old points.

kitten Vayne, how about you can only defend this every 7th post, that OK with you?

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Kuldebar.1897:

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

Yep…in the old days, one trait point didn’t actually get you anything. You needed five to actually unlock a point. That 1 point is like five of the old points.

kitten Vayne, how about you can only defend this every 7th post, that OK with you?

Actually there are plenty of posts I don’t comment on at all. Just the ones that I disagree with. There’s a post on the main page right now about a guy who’s bored with the game. Not a single post in that thread.

Complaining about 1 trait point, and unlock one trait at a time…that’s how it’s always worked, except in the old days you needed five of them. Why do you have a problem with me pointing that out?

On a slightly related note, I’m still waiting for someone – anyone – to make a cogent argument as to why removing the the water bucket and feed sack bundles from Diah’s farm or the recipe for Eda’s Apple Pie from the game improved the leveling experience.

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Kuldebar.1897:

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

Yep…in the old days, one trait point didn’t actually get you anything. You needed five to actually unlock a point. That 1 point is like five of the old points.

kitten Vayne, how about you can only defend this every 7th post, that OK with you?

Actually there are plenty of posts I don’t comment on at all. Just the ones that I disagree with. There’s a post on the main page right now about a guy who’s bored with the game. Not a single post in that thread.

Complaining about 1 trait point, and unlock one trait at a time…that’s how it’s always worked, except in the old days you needed five of them. Why do you have a problem with me pointing that out?

Nah, you have some decent arguments, how would you feel if you could only post on every 7th posts though?

That would cripple your involvement in the forums..Why would that be, because it’s new and good or just tedium forced upon us.

darkace.8925:

On a slightly related note, I’m still waiting for someone – anyone – to make a cogent argument as to why removing the the water bucket and feed sack bundles from Diah’s farm or the recipe for Eda’s Apple Pie from the game improved the leveling experience.

what it boils down to, is they decided new players couldnt deal well with the concept of bundles, (a new skill bar based on environment) so they cut all such occurences from starter hearts.

phys.7689:

darkace.8925:

On a slightly related note, I’m still waiting for someone – anyone – to make a cogent argument as to why removing the the water bucket and feed sack bundles from Diah’s farm or the recipe for Eda’s Apple Pie from the game improved the leveling experience.

what it boils down to, is they decided new players couldnt deal well with the concept of bundles, (a new skill bar based on environment) so they cut all such occurences from starter hearts.

Ivory Tower

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Kuldebar.1897:

I ding level 30 on my Engineer and finally have access to Traits!

I open up the Trait Panel….I have 1 POINT…1 Trait Point to spend.

Yeah, after 30 levels and a handful of Traits Unlocked…I get 1 Point to spend.

Yep…in the old days, one trait point didn’t actually get you anything. You needed five to actually unlock a point. That 1 point is like five of the old points.

kitten Vayne, how about you can only defend this every 7th post, that OK with you?

Actually there are plenty of posts I don’t comment on at all. Just the ones that I disagree with. There’s a post on the main page right now about a guy who’s bored with the game. Not a single post in that thread.

Complaining about 1 trait point, and unlock one trait at a time…that’s how it’s always worked, except in the old days you needed five of them. Why do you have a problem with me pointing that out?

Nah, you have some decent arguments, how would you feel if you could only post on every 7th posts though?

That would cripple your involvement in the forums..Why would that be, because it’s new and good or just tedium forced upon us.

I wouldn’t feel anything, I’d find something else to do. This is my hobby, so I devote time to it. Before this hobby, I had other hobbies. After this hobby I will have other hobbies again. I like to keep busy.

darkace.8925:

On a slightly related note, I’m still waiting for someone – anyone – to make a cogent argument as to why removing the the water bucket and feed sack bundles from Diah’s farm or the recipe for Eda’s Apple Pie from the game improved the leveling experience.

I’m thinking Anet at some point got feedback showing actual numbers of people who tried the game and definitely quit because they found things like that too confusing. They’re clearly trying to get more people playing, so I suspect someone at the top decided “excessive complexity in starter areas” was an easy concrete thing they could change to keep the people who were getting scared away by things like golem chess. Obviously there’s a counterargument that excess simplicity will also drive some players away, but until the change is made that’s a purely theoretical loss and difficult to measure.

Or, there aren’t merits to the new way. I don’t know why some people insist on dismissing the views of other players who disagree with them.

There are always merits, you may not see them through their rage-filled vision, but there are. If you claim there are reasons that I may not understand, but are still valid, then the same can be said about the merits about this system.

You’re wrong. The trait system is vital in this game, a fully traited character plays vastly differently than an untraited one, especially in certain classes, and holding off when players are able to trait up makes the gameplay experience considerably more shallow until you get there.

Your rebuttal is way out of context. My statement, had you read it properly, was referring to his argument that the trait system was changed and therefore made GW2 “conform” to other MMO’s, not that the trait system is not vital. Your whole rebuttal does nothing to my point as it is completely unrelated.

If they are complaining, then they have a reason. You might not understand their reason, and perhaps even they aren’t able to articulate exactly what their reason is, but that doesn’t make their reason any less valid, or any less important for ANet to pay attention to it.

What do you think I’ve been asking him to do? I asked him to elaborate and all he ever answered me was “it’s obvious”. I didn’t understand what he was referring to since his post had points all over the place.

Also trait acquisition is gated further back in the leveling process than it used to be.

Aren’t they still the same as when they made the change in trait system in April? I was talking more on the level gating for the NPE.

This is not GW1. Nobody kittening cares about GW1. This is GW2, and in GW2, traits didn’t used to be such a hassle, and now they are a hassle, and GW2 players do not like it.

Again, context. He mentioned GW’s reputation for being different; and I don’t know about you, but I believe its reputation started with GW1, and not GW2.

It is obvious. In vanilla GW2, weapon skills unlocked via use, in a pattern that was highly unusual to MMOs. In NPE GW2, they unlock by level, almost exactly like 90% of other MMOs would.

First off, thank you for stating that. I did not know what he was referring to as I have stated many times, his points were all over the place. He never makes any reference to how weapon skills are level gated at all. Second, this may be removing one small bit of innovative difference from GW2, but it’s hardly to the degree he was implying it to be. Could you really say the weapon skills is all that is different in GW2 than most MMORPG’s?

Ultimately, the point of this forum is to express our opinions in the hopes that we can make GW2 the best game it can be. You are serving nothing by trying to belittle your fellow posters and their valid opinions about the state of the game.

Is that not what you’re also doing?

I was hardly trying to belittle him or his opinions when the discussion began. I simply asked him to elaborate on his points as I did not understand them and found them confusing. He refused to do so, continuously claiming that they are obvious. I will admit my posts were more heated after that, but that was not to belittle his opinions but rather the way he was delivering them. Expecting everyone to understand immediately all your points and refusing to give any explanation for them is what irks me, not that they are points I do not agree with. Get it?

NPE isn’t a real issue, lot of the glaring problems have been fixed (Profession Skills for example).

The core issue remains the Trait Point acquisition and Trait Unlock system that was implemented in April.

This truly nerfed leveling characters in a big way while also making them far less interesting to level and gameplay far more shallow.

Some Professions suffer more than others for the lack of Traits, my level 33 Engineer feels absolutely lame rolling around Kessex Hills with one active Trait.

Having leveled an Engineer (now deleted) to level 28 under the old system…there’s a world of difference to the leveling experience and not in a good way.

There are always merits, you may not see them through their rage-filled vision, but there are. If you claim there are reasons that I may not understand, but are still valid, then the same can be said about the merits about this system.

Then it’s ANet’s job to make those merits clear. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that there were no positive changes, for example adding the dodge trainers was a good idea, just that many of the changes made were ONLY negative in nature, and reverting those changes could ONLY be positive.

Your rebuttal is way out of context. My statement, had you read it properly, was referring to his argument that the trait system was changed and therefore made GW2 “conform” to other MMO’s, not that the trait system is not vital. Your whole rebuttal does nothing to my point as it is completely unrelated.

I don’t care if what I said rebuts your point or not. Your point is irrelevant, you are irrelevant, only the game matters, and the changes to the trait system were bad for the game, I will not engage in semantic discussions of irrelevant side topics.

What do you think I’ve been asking him to do? I asked him to elaborate and all he ever answered me was “it’s obvious”. I didn’t understand what he was referring to since his post had points all over the place.

He doesn’t have to explain further if he doesn’t want to, or can’t. Some people are better with words than others, and some are more interested in game design than others, but that doesn’t mean they have no role to play in shaping the game they want to enjoy.

The more detailed people can be the better, because it makes ANet’s job easier in fixing it, but it’s not the player’s responsibility to design the game, and if the best someone can come up with is “this feels wrong” then that’s good enough, and it’s ANet’s job to figure out why and what to do about it.

Aren’t they still the same as when they made the change in trait system in April? I was talking more on the level gating for the NPE.

The NPE is a continuation of changes made earlier, which were also wrong. There’s nothing to be gained by singling out only changes made before or after a certain date, what matters is whether the change worked or didn’t work.

Again, context. He mentioned GW’s reputation for being different; and I don’t know about you, but I believe its reputation started with GW1, and not GW2.

GW1’s reputation for being different started with GW1, GW2’s started with GW2, and in many cases, the ways GW2 are different are distinct from GW1, as different from GW1 as they are from any other MMO on the market. The things GW2 does differently than GW1 are as important as the things it does differently than WoW.

Second, this may be removing one small bit of innovative difference from GW2, but it’s hardly to the degree he was implying it to be. Could you really say the weapon skills is all that is different in GW2 than most MMORPG’s?

I know that when I was just getting starting, I found it VERY unique and fun, and the game would lose a lot of early spark for not having it. The same is true of the content they cut out of the early leveling process, which really made the game feel unique. Now so much more of it becomes “press 1 repeatedly to kill X rats.”

Expecting everyone to understand immediately all your points and refusing to give any explanation for them is what irks me, not that they are points I do not agree with. Get it?

Yeah, but ultimately other posters do not serve at your pleasure. If they don’t want to format their comments the way you choose, they have no obligation to do so. Ask for clarification once, fair enough, ask for it repeatedly, that’s going beyond your purview.

Having leveled an Engineer (now deleted) to level 28 under the old system…there’s a world of difference to the leveling experience and not in a good way.

Agreed. There are a ton of weapon and utility skills that are absolutely worthless in their vanilla forms, but that become a lot of fun when you have the right traits to highlight them, and the sooner these traits become available, the better.

I agree with you completely. That’s all I wanted to say. This IS the truth.

Yoroiookami.3485:

I agree with you completely. That’s all I wanted to say. This IS the truth.

Truth is relative to the person deciding it is the truth. What may the truth to one person is not the truth to another.

I am leveling a new character and I don’t find any of the annoyances that others have. It is just a different way of doing things is all.