Guild Wars 2

I have leveled a Mesmer prior to this patch, ankitten ow leveling up an Ele in this patch. It is just horrible. I feel 20-30% weaker.

I would currently have an additional 100 power, and 2 traits to boot. I don’t have that, and have to roam in the 1-15 zones STILL because I’m that much weaker. The armour repair costs don’t exist because of how weak every pre-80 character is.

There is no reason for the 5 filler lvs from 31-36 as they serve no purpose, give you no boosts aside from a skill point. Since Masterwork gear only advances every 5 levels, thats 4 levels of flat out grinding. Aside from Fiery Greatsword, I have all of my Abilities on my bar. Skill points mean nothing to me.

Does Anet not realise how dull it is to level in this system. I see that I level up in game, and don’t even care/react. I’m getting nothing. I play this for about 20 minutes before I’m already bored. I either carry on simply just to get to another level so that I have 1 less level to go, or I play another game. That’s TERRIBLE that this game is in that state.

Everything has been massively hampered for any character not already 80. Not only does my guy look like kitten as the Trans Crystals have become a lv 80 ‘pleasure’, but I’m struggling to actually get anywhere with my character. I’ll elaborate a bit on the Crystals before I continue to rant.

The Crystals haven’t really changed from what we already had. They’re just more accessible. What HAS happened though, is that I can’t even enjoy my character looking like an adventurer rather than just some pleasant from LOTR that’s just wondered through Mordor without lessening my enjoyment of the wardrobe come lv 80. Prior to the patch, when you get 2 map completions, you can look half decent when you upgrade your gear. The removal of stones, with no effective replacement for pre-80 skins has hampered lv 80’s in another customization section.

Granted skins mean ultimately nothing when leveling, but it annoys me as I’m sure others that the removal of the Stones with an awful 3:1 conversion is hindering the experience a bit.

Back onto leveling. I can’t even fundamentally change the way my character is, until I hit lv 30 and even then I’m 15 lvs behind what I would have been, because I have no traits or bonus points in any skills to allocate. I can’t opt for more regen or opt for that lava font boon, because I have to be half way to max level to even DECIDE which trait I want.

And this is without even mentioning the cost of traits. A single trait is the same as what a book cost with the added cost of skill points… WHAT?! So not only do I have less options in customising my character, by I have to also waste points and silver/gold on traits as well? Sure they may be unlockable, but is it really a feasible idea that I should 100% Gendarran Fields for a 6-7th time for a single trait?

Now I can afford to buy traits. Others can’t. Anet has encouraged the use of Queensdale Train as the means to grind Skill Points and money to even afford any changes to what little a build someone might be able to put together, and have inadvertently caused endgame builds to become even more optimal or meta. Why would I even care that I can retrait on the fly, when people can’t afford any of the traits or skills because of the ridiculous costs?

This patch sure is good for every 80 character out there, but has took a massive kitten on everyone trying to lv an alt or anyone trying to get into the game. It has made everyone weaker, VERY narrow character building and little to no customisation from one person to the next.

Sorry for the wall of text, but Anet needs to fix these issues because I’m not wasting my effort and time if they can’t be bothered to make the experience enjoyable/entertaining.

And there are people thinking that leveling is the best its been.

I’m trying to level an engineer since a couple days, but I must say I’m kind of in the same thing. I’m forced to roam into all the 1-15 maps if I’m not helped by a friend because I have no damage output and no real survivability. I already leveled 4 characters to 80 and kind of enjoyed it (except for the mesmer that was a bit of a pain due to the squishyness, but it was still okay), but right now, sheesh. No trait points coupled with the fact the gears are giving only 2 stats (and weak ones upon that) makes the whole thing just immensely dull and repetitive.

I’ve always forgot to buy tomes on my characters and never had your problem. Now the mobs are even weaker. I don’t know what you are talking about.

nGumball.1283:

And there are people thinking that leveling is the best its been.

I have seen that, but I would also ask what was their experience like once they ventured past Queensdale or DIDN’T repeat those events in the zone they were in 10 minutes ago.

Relying on Megaservers to better the experience is like relying on the Devil with your soul. Who knows where people are, IF they want to do the activities you are doing or want to do? Go into Queensdale and EVERYONE is running train because Anet has reinforced that even more for a source of income. Hit lv 10, and every area was empty where there were no champs.

And having 3 people with you for the ride of grinding, doesn’t make it any less of a chore than what it’s become.

Trixie.7614:

I’ve always forgot to buy tomes on my characters and never had your problem. Now the mobs are even weaker. I don’t know what you are talking about.

So you have no input on no Trans Stones, that leveling is even more of a chore and that the costs for Traits is just ridiculous? Regardless of when you bought the tomes, every character now has nothing. They will continue to have nothing, until you spend time grinding or spent time doing something that you don’t want to do to get a single trait.

If you don’t get 100% in Gendarren Fields, kill that champ in some abadoned zone, complete that quest that always fails, then you’re are going to have to run Queensdale train for Skillpoints or have to give up what little customisation you have to get one or two traits.

nGumball.1283:

And there are people thinking that leveling is the best its been.

Probably those people who have to be officially forced to do the content to enjoy it because if they’re left with options, they seem to be forced to do everything in an easier way aka “efficiently” and cannot enjoy it if they can.

I remember leveling a mesmer (my main) pre-patch – hard and slow, but doable; the sylvari racial skills helped to survive a lot, as well as traits. I feel that my mesmer at 80 still either doesn’t do enough damage or is squishy even if it tries to squeeze a bit more of DPS.

I remember leveling an ele – I had to kite and kite and kite not to get killed by same level mobs, while skelks were virtually unkillable; getting some traits early on really helped. I just accepted it, grinded Tomes of Knowledge on my main and leveled it to start playing it. Now, equipped in primarily zerker gear, I still do not see a lvl 80 ele as a good DPS source (as generally regarded) despite it being extremely squishy.

I remember trying a war – and facerolling most mobs of 3-4 levels above me and dropping it because it’s boring. I also see warriors who melt their targets at 80, and I ask myself a serious question: WTF?!

So yes, since the only important class in this game doesn’t really need traits to be viable in PvE till level 30, having the game balanced around it doesn’t surprise me.

Will I be leveling my other alts? No thanks; I still can’t make myself finish map completion on my main, and actually spending time on the same content or grinded gold on acquiring traits is not my definition of fun.

Lishtenbird.2814:

nGumball.1283:

And there are people thinking that leveling is the best its been.

Probably those people who have to be officially forced to do the content to enjoy it because if they’re left with options, they seem to be forced to do everything in an easier way aka “efficiently” and cannot enjoy it if they can.

I remember leveling a mesmer (my main) pre-patch – hard and slow, but doable; the sylvari racial skills helped to survive a lot, as well as traits. I still feel that my mesmer at 80 still either doesn’t do enough damage or is squishy even if it tries to squeeze a bit more of DPS.

I remember leveling an ele – I had to kite and kite and kite not to get killed by same level mobs; getting some traits early on really helped. I just accepted it, grinded Tomes of Knowledge on my main and leveled it to start playing it. Now, equipped in primarily zerker gear, I still do not see a lvl 80 ele as a good DPS source (as generally regarded) despite it being extremely squishy.

I remember trying a war – and facerolling most mobs of 3-4 levels above me and dropping it because it’s boring. I also see warriors who melt their targets at 80, and I ask myself a serious question: WTF?!

So yes, since the only important class in this game doesn’t really need traits to be viable in PvE till level 30, having the game balanced around it doesn’t surprise me.

Will I be leveling my other alts? No thanks; I still can’t make myself finish map completion on my main, and actually spending time on the same content or grinded gold on acquiring traits is not my definition of fun.

Mesmer doesn’t do enough damage at 80? squishy?
If the mesmer does know how to play, they would win a warrior quite easily.

Instead of grind you can WvW, Pvp, craft, dun dungeons etc etc etc.

It is the players who are can’t accept a game where you can do different stuff, focusing on a specific kind of content to call it grind later on, blaming the company for it. If you want to grind, that’s your personal choice.

nGumball.1283:

Mesmer doesn’t do enough damage at 80? squishy?
If the mesmer does know how to play, they would win a warrior quite easily.

Yesterday in EoTM me (a mes with Traveler’s +25% speed bonus and Blink) and a couple of other players chased a warrior for about a minute just to catch it, dent it and finally kill it when it just stood in a corner and didn’t try to run anymore.

I got my last not killed profession achievement yesterday, after a Deer and a half ranks, in 1v1 on a capped point after a decent fight; that profession was a warrior.

No, warriors are not a slightest bit overpowered.

nGumball.1283:

Instead of grind you can grind WvW, grind Pvp, grind and craft, grind dungeons etc etc etc.

FTFY.

nGumball.1283:

It is the players who are can’t accept a game where you can do different stuff, focusing on a specific kind of content to call it grind later on, blaming the company for it. If you want to grind, that’s your personal choice.

Current leveling is exactly a system which takes a player by the hand and makes it do what they wouldn’t have done otherwise because they didn’t find it fun.

And why didn’t they find it fun? Because in unlocking traits for an alt there’s nothing new. You’re opposed to these players, yet approving of the system which promotes it.

Trait line #5, to get trait:

• I: do CM story mode (level 40 dungeon)
• II: Kill Foulbear chieftain and her elite guard
• III: Complete level 59 Personal Story
• IV: 100% completion in Dredgehaunt Cliffs (level 40-50)
• V: 100% completion in Sparkfly Fen (level 55-65)
• VI: 100% completion in Frostgorge Sound (level 70-80)

Only Trait II is in a level 30s zone.

Look at Trait VI: If you’re level 30-40, I’m not sure you can even do damage to mobs in Frostgorge Sound.

the trait system is not made for the current game because gw2 is a aged game 90%+ of the game population is 80 already so they have several ways to get their alt to 80 fast with help of their main.and this game still has new comers but their number is not big enough to make anet reconsider.
but the question is why change to trait system now after almost 20 months?
because of the expansion:)
remember all of us are going to be low levels again when expansion hits and they want us to go through expansion content by unlocking traits rather than rushing through content to reach level cap again.
that is why many people are for it. it actually make leveling fun when you play an expansion it is patch preparing you for the future.

JustARTificial.3175:

I have leveled a Mesmer prior to this patch, ankitten ow leveling up an Ele in this patch. It is just horrible. I feel 20-30% weaker.

Elementalists are known to be harder to level up than other professions, unless you build the character effectively, then it’s as easy as any other.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Trait line #5, to get trait:

• I: do CM story mode (level 40 dungeon)
• II: Kill Foulbear chieftain and her elite guard
• III: Complete level 59 Personal Story
• IV: 100% completion in Dredgehaunt Cliffs (level 40-50)
• V: 100% completion in Sparkfly Fen (level 55-65)
• VI: 100% completion in Frostgorge Sound (level 70-80)

Only Trait II is in a level 30s zone.

Look at Trait VI: If you’re level 30-40, I’m not sure you can even do damage to mobs in Frostgorge Sound.

I just can’t think of the consequences of having this gigantic amount of unfinished underleveled builds at next Marionette, Knights and Holo LS events.

saye.9304:

the trait system is not made for the current game because gw2 is a aged game 90%+ of the game population is 80 already so they have several ways to get their alt to 80 fast with help of their main.and this game still has new comers but their number is not big enough to make anet reconsider.
but the question is why change to trait system now after almost 20 months?
because of the expansion:)
remember all of us are going to be low levels again when expansion hits and they want us to go through expansion content by unlocking traits rather than rushing through content to reach level cap again.
that is why many people are for it. it actually make leveling fun when you play an expansion it is patch preparing you for the future.

Very optimistic but the task for trait aquisition seems to have been selected at a drunk bingo party. They have no flow with each other or the levelling experience, are repetitive, boring or downright impossible to do at the level of unlock, plus they’ve put ALL the traits for unlocking. Even in GW1 you had a core skill pool you could choose from to build up your character at low lvls.

maddoctor.2738:

JustARTificial.3175:

I have leveled a Mesmer prior to this patch, ankitten ow leveling up an Ele in this patch. It is just horrible. I feel 20-30% weaker.

Elementalists are known to be harder to level up than other professions, unless you build the character effectively, then it’s as easy as any other.

I think the problem is that, since you get traits and trait points a lot later (assuming you have even unlocked the correct ones), it’s rather more difficult to make an effective build.

Meanwhile I’m still one-hitting mobs in everything up to lv50 maps while they take about .000001% of my HP with their devestating autoattack skills.

I went afk on my Guardian and a Bear was on me the whole time and it couldn’t even kill me because my passive Virtue regeneration was out-healing it, and I don’t even have that much Toughness equipped (about 2500 defense).

This game is just too difficult.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Trait line #5, to get trait:

• I: do CM story mode (level 40 dungeon)
• II: Kill Foulbear chieftain and her elite guard
• III: Complete level 59 Personal Story
• IV: 100% completion in Dredgehaunt Cliffs (level 40-50)
• V: 100% completion in Sparkfly Fen (level 55-65)
• VI: 100% completion in Frostgorge Sound (level 70-80)

Only Trait II is in a level 30s zone.

Look at Trait VI: If you’re level 30-40, I’m not sure you can even do damage to mobs in Frostgorge Sound.

In order to even a space to fill with Trait I, you need to be lvl36. You get your first trait point at 30, the second at 36. So, instead of putting two trait points in that line as soon as you can, put it on another line as you’ll get your third trait point at 42.

I do agree on one thing though. All Adept level traits should be achievable in <lvl50 areas, the Master in 50 to 80 and the Grand Master in lvl80 areas.

Hannelore.8153:

Meanwhile I’m still one-hitting mobs in everything up to lv50 maps while they take about .000001% of my HP with their devestating autoattack skills.

I went afk on my Guardian and a Bear was on me the whole time and it couldn’t even kill me because my passive Virtue regeneration was out-healing it, and I don’t even have that much Toughness equipped (about 2500 defense).

This game is just too difficult.

/Gasp. Your Guardian has good survival. How shocking.

I leveled Guardian after Mesmer. Try doing reverse. You’d be surprised.

Taohaza.4205:

Hannelore.8153:

Meanwhile I’m still one-hitting mobs in everything up to lv50 maps while they take about .000001% of my HP with their devestating autoattack skills.

I went afk on my Guardian and a Bear was on me the whole time and it couldn’t even kill me because my passive Virtue regeneration was out-healing it, and I don’t even have that much Toughness equipped (about 2500 defense).

This game is just too difficult.

/Gasp. Your Guardian has good survival. How shocking.

I leveled Guardian after Mesmer. Try doing reverse. You’d be surprised.

I have all classes at 80 and my main is an Elementalist, which has the lowest defensive stats?

There’s a post of some level <50 guy on another thread one-shotting mobs with only single-stat +Power gear because they are so weak now.

PvE is really easy now, so easy that it completely takes the challenge out of it and makes playing with friends a bore because you have to avoid hitting the mobs. I can have a character completely in Dire gear or some other set with zero Power-based offensive capability and still autohit <lv30 mobs to death in seconds.

Its somewhat harder for a levelling player with up-to-date gear, but not by much.

If you’re having trouble with it, you should play another game, because its just the beginning and its about ten times worse in lv80 zones and a hundred times worse in dungeons unless you have a good party…

Taohaza.4205:

/Gasp. Your Guardian has good survival. How shocking.

I leveled Guardian after Mesmer. Try doing reverse. You’d be surprised.

I rolled a guardian in an extra slot to do a level 10 personal story prior to patch (just in case) and was amazed at how easily I steamrolled to level 10 PS with a level 1-5 (or 6?) guardian.

I don’t even know why we have leveling grinding in a supposedly grindless game.

Hannelore.8153:

Taohaza.4205:

Hannelore.8153:

Meanwhile I’m still one-hitting mobs in everything up to lv50 maps while they take about .000001% of my HP with their devestating autoattack skills.

I went afk on my Guardian and a Bear was on me the whole time and it couldn’t even kill me because my passive Virtue regeneration was out-healing it, and I don’t even have that much Toughness equipped (about 2500 defense).

This game is just too difficult.

/Gasp. Your Guardian has good survival. How shocking.

I leveled Guardian after Mesmer. Try doing reverse. You’d be surprised.

I have all classes at 80 and my main is an Elementalist, which has the lowest defensive stats?
<snip>

Gratz on all the 80s. This thread is posted by someone who is only leveling their second character. If changes to low level traits acquisition and clothes transmutation are nothing to you, do not post “eh, everything is ez mode” comments in a thread of someone whose experience is directly affected by it.

This topic is not about class balance during leveling either. As guardian I rolled through content pretty much by auto attacking and going as far as forgoing dodge since it’ll get mitigated anyway.

Also, if anything, lvl 80 is ‘ez mode’ with all the traits and gear stats available.

Playing a New Mesmer. I already have a Human mesmer, but decided to play another just to experience the new trait system. I am Not gonna be riding any Champion Trains, I will Not be getting assistance from high level alts. Will rely on whatever help I can get from Guildies to do events too hard for me to do simply with the help of My wife.

I am going to focus on map completion, and Personal story… and any events that happen along, along with daily, and monthly.

carry only bags I can craft, and wear only armor I find or craft. I feel before theory-crafters put a game down, they should play the game with an open mind.

Instead of seeing the game from the perspective of " Lokk what I had before!!!" they should ask." Ok, let me with an open mind, disregarding what I had before… ask myself..what do I have now?"

I feel a lotof the anxiety is because everyone had a simple path to 80, getting traits was painless. Buy a mnual , and tada!

I realize a LOT of players here are playing new characters, but some, I don’t think all…but some, are only going through the experience saying to themse.ves…" before the patch by this Point i would have Bla bla bla…and bla bla bla..and Now I don’t."

Maybe if we put our experiences of pre-patch gw2 aside, and try to see the game with new eyes, you may find it’s more fun? Just a thought.

I also have a level 24 thief I started Playing after the patch. By this time I would have 14 trait points. That means One major adept trait and working almost to a Minor adept trait.

When I played my main thief to 80.. by this point I was working towards a specific build. Since respeccs cost money, doesn’t matter that it was inexpensive, they still cost money, and I hate to spend money if I can avoid it. I found My playstyle was pretty much Locked in.

I had the utilities I needed to play the build I was working on, I had My main weapon Welded to my main hand, my offhand welded to my offhand…and My shortbow welded to my second weapon set.

Now I have no traits at all. I expected it would be a grueling experience. What I have discovered is…. I feel free to experiment with my weapons more. I feel free to use utilities I never really used much. Used to be a Pistol/dagger stealth thief. Now I use dagger/dagger in second slot, and dagger/pistol in main Loving Pistol whip.

I used to use only hide in shadows as a heal, all the way from about 15 to 80. Now I use the signet bla bla that gives me heals per attacks. Using caltrops from time to time… and Skelk Poison Just to see the effects of torment.

I think you can see where I am going. While on paper… and maybe In experience..NOT having trait points til 30…seems Like a Huge nerf. For me at least it has opened up the game because I experiment more, I change My weapon selections more often in a Given day…I change My utilities just as often. Which sort of reminds me of the play I enjoyed in gw1.

If this was their intent, at least according to my experience, they succeeded and it was an awesome change… an imporivement on the game. That + Megaserver has made this a BETTER game for me.

Lishtenbird.2814:

nGumball.1283:

Mesmer doesn’t do enough damage at 80? squishy?
If the mesmer does know how to play, they would win a warrior quite easily.

Yesterday in EoTM me (a mes with Traveler’s +25% speed bonus and Blink) and a couple of other players chased a warrior for about a minute just to catch it, dent it and finally kill it when it just stood in a corner and didn’t try to run anymore.

I got my last not killed profession achievement yesterday, after a Deer and a half ranks, in 1v1 on a capped point after a decent fight; that profession was a warrior.

No, warriors are not a slightest bit overpowered.

nGumball.1283:

Instead of grind you can grind WvW, grind Pvp, grind and craft, grind dungeons etc etc etc.

FTFY.

nGumball.1283:

It is the players who are can’t accept a game where you can do different stuff, focusing on a specific kind of content to call it grind later on, blaming the company for it. If you want to grind, that’s your personal choice.

Current leveling is exactly a system which takes a player by the hand and makes it do what they wouldn’t have done otherwise because they didn’t find it fun.

And why didn’t they find it fun? Because in unlocking traits for an alt there’s nothing new. You’re opposed to these players, yet approving of the system which promotes it.

If you consider ever form of playing grinding then you shouldn’t play MMOs cause that’s how they are.

OP, I can understand some of your complaint, but not all of it.

Pre-patch I had leveled characters all the way to 80 without purchasing tomes, thus being traitless all the way. Post patch, I am continuing to level characters, and still regularly forget to do anything with my traits. (I just, forget they are there, I guess. shrug) I am not feeling any ‘weaker’ now than before, and it’s the same classes. Pre-patch I leveled my human necro and ranger, post patch it’s a charr ranger and a sylvari necro.

I don’t find the current system any more ‘dull’ than the previous system. You’re still doing the same things as before. The only difference now (beyond traits starting later), is that instead of a single, almost useless trait point each level, you get one every 6th and get it’s ‘full benefit’ (a major or minor unlock). That’s not really going to affect too much, if you’re feeling that leveling is ‘dull’ to begin with. That’s more what you’re doing, not where you’re sticking points. Traits make things faster, since you do more damage or have more survive-ability, but it doesn’t change the content.

Now, in regards to trans charges, I can agree there. The 3 stones → 1 charge might have been a bit steep for some people. I, personally, don’t like the conversion rate, but I can understand it. A lot of people never bothered changing their look for non-80s, and as such simply accumulated the stones. So some people had loads of them, which they converted into loads of charges. I can understand (even if I’m not happy with) Anet having to make some sort of compromise. They didn’t want people to end up inundated with charges, because then they’d never buy any. That’s not really good for business. Especially considering they have reduced 2 sources of revenue to one (stones and crystals → charges), and they are no longer selling multiples of the gemstore armors / weapons to a single player, reducing those revenue streams as well. I am thankful that we can at least still earn charges through map completion; however, I wish it rewarded 2 instead of just 1.

As for acquiring the actual traits (for new characters), yes some of that needs some tweaking. I’m actually ok with the prices of the trait books, since that’s really there for (as you pointed out) people that have already leveled and just don’t want to do things again. Admitted though, I love the acquire through play option. I probably won’t buy many, if any at all. Still, I think Anet needs to re-look at where and how some of the traits are acquired, especially some of the first tier traits. Again, the system isn’t perfect, but I think the overall change was for the better.

nGumball.1283:

Lishtenbird.2814:

nGumball.1283:

Mesmer doesn’t do enough damage at 80? squishy?
If the mesmer does know how to play, they would win a warrior quite easily.

Yesterday in EoTM me (a mes with Traveler’s +25% speed bonus and Blink) and a couple of other players chased a warrior for about a minute just to catch it, dent it and finally kill it when it just stood in a corner and didn’t try to run anymore.

I got my last not killed profession achievement yesterday, after a Deer and a half ranks, in 1v1 on a capped point after a decent fight; that profession was a warrior.

No, warriors are not a slightest bit overpowered.

nGumball.1283:

Instead of grind you can grind WvW, grind Pvp, grind and craft, grind dungeons etc etc etc.

FTFY.

nGumball.1283:

It is the players who are can’t accept a game where you can do different stuff, focusing on a specific kind of content to call it grind later on, blaming the company for it. If you want to grind, that’s your personal choice.

Current leveling is exactly a system which takes a player by the hand and makes it do what they wouldn’t have done otherwise because they didn’t find it fun.

And why didn’t they find it fun? Because in unlocking traits for an alt there’s nothing new. You’re opposed to these players, yet approving of the system which promotes it.

If you consider ever form of playing grinding then you shouldn’t play MMOs cause that’s how they are.

I have to agree. I remember loving EverQuest. Anyone that hates ’ the grind" on Gw2…would literally fling EverQuest out the window. I think that there are some players that see play= grind. Unless what they are doing is " what I want to do."

They fail to realize that most MMO’s prior to World of Warcraft made players earn what they attained. Maybe it’s simply that most players have only started playing MMO’s with World of Warcraft or a World of Warcraft clone, and Now feel that The WoW template where everything is handed to them On a silver platter .. (compared with games Like EverQuest… where most had to be clawed out and gouged out at risk to life, limb, and inventory…. Look up corpse runs … exp loss on death… etc. ) Gw2 seems to be following the GW1/EQ format.

Sometimes having more challenge makes for a better game. If people approach this game with that in mind, maybe they will see these changes are not bad for the game, just harder than things were before.

reminds me of this scene. Sometimes The Hard is what makes it Great.

I just finished leveling a character from 70 to 80, this last week. Oops, I forgot the traits were reset. Turns out I played all that time with no traits whatsoever. I didn’t even notice. Lol.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I just finished leveling a character from 70 to 80, this last week. Oops, I forgot the traits were reset. Turns out I played all that time with no traits whatsoever. I didn’t even notice. Lol.

I usually level up without traits too cause I don’t care before entering the harder dungeons or WvW/Pvp

what class were you playing?
Some classes are hit harder with this than others, mesmer/elementalist seem to be the worst hit.

I really dont see why they had to leave traits so late, I’m ok we having to hunt them down(if they were level appropriate). But they nerfed mobs just to make this later trait gaining viable…. it all seems rather pointless.

Leveling in this game is so freakin’ easy I don’t care if I am that much weaker. You hit mine an ore, you get xp; you chop a tree, you get xp; you throw snow balls, you get xp; you craft, you get xp; and then there’s killing mobs, doing events, and pretty much discovering areas, poi, and vista gives xp!

Sure, it has changed, but that’s how games evolve; whether it’s for best or worst depends on you (and it seemed it is worst for you), but for me, no change, it’s practically so easy to level, only my laziness prevented me from reaching 80 (and yeah, I made a new character during char slot sale and it’s Lv30 now in just 4hrs). This game doesn’t even punish you enough when you die, the old games I played, I lose XP, if not loots and coins and more. In this game, if I die, I can be revived by others and don’t have to pay anything, not even a repair cost anymore….

And oh, back in the days, my traits doesn’t even matter much to me, I am so noobie I use whatever drops and I played with just the very basic traits (Adept?). I only get serious learning about traits when I hit 80 and I hit 80 in about a week O.o….I play with my new char, and man, the mobs melt so fast x.x

nGumball.1283:

If you consider ever form of playing grinding then you shouldn’t play MMOs cause that’s how they are.

Playing any content I want to play with a character and leveling it is not grind.

Playing content that I do not want to be able to unlock traits for my characters is a grind.

Playing content that I do not want to be able to buy traits for my character is a grind.

Hey, did you notice we were talking not even about ascended mats locked behind specific content types and non-exchangeable for optional gear, but about basic character abilities known as traits?

There must be a line in “grinding”. For me, even gathering mats for full ascended was fun and not grind, because those +4.7% stats were optional, similar to how optional were the looks of illusionary forged weapons for me.

Are traits optional? No, they’re core features of any class, and having an 80-level Personal Story to unlock a Master trait is ridiculous, as ridiculous it is to pay 43 gold + 360 skill points for unlocking all traits.

People are saying that there’s no endgame; ANet’ve failed to deliver new persistent content, and now they’re trying to tell us that leveling is the new endgame – not by adding something new to leveling, but by making us play content which has been largely ignored. Can I agree with such a concept? No.

Nerelith.7360:

Maybe if we put our experiences of pre-patch gw2 aside, and try to see the game with new eyes, you may find it’s more fun? Just a thought.

If we forget how driving cars felt, maybe we may find riding horses is more fun?

I got several low level toons. Before patch it was really fun to level them, but now without any traits it’s only meh…

PvE is really easy now- it feels like the mobs have been nerfed into oblivion- either that or my Ele magically changed from a wet tissue to a one man killer army.

That as it may be, leveling is completely boring now- there really is no point because you don’t even get traits to spend- it feels like spinning wheels honestly.

You really feel the fact that 80 levels was too long to begin with

Thank god I have 2 lvl80 Mesmers because they are so trait dependent.
Unfortunately I have 5other characters under lvl 80

Megaserver is also a hit and miss- especially if you play EU- I have never seen maps this quiet and that is with these hordes of people.
It is quite eerie, I think the map blank out has to do with the Tower of Babel we experienced the first couple of days.

@LanfearShadowflame I’m not debating the 5 skill points to 1. That’s fine. HOWEVER, there has to be something ,ore worthwhile than 20 more hp, every time I level whilst waiting for the next skill point 4 more levels down.

30 = Gear, SP, Trait
31 = SP
32 = SP
33 = SP
34 = SP
35 = Gear (If you’re doing it be 5’s, most by 10), SP
36 = Trait, SP
37 = SP
38 = SP
39 = SP
40 = Gear, SP

Spend 2 of those SP to unlock a trait, considering the ridiculous quests for the current lv, and the progressions 3x slower. That is a PAINFULLY slow progression system. Once you get to 80, the game’s functions open up and it’s completely different. Trans Crystals are worthwhile, SP’s becomes a much more accessible currency with the rapid progression, builds are made and changed on the fly, etc…

The new functions implemented like re-traiting on the fly, is not even experienced whilst leveling. The systems brought in, don’t measure up to what they’ve changed and taken away.

And as for those saying consider this a new experience; I AM. I am leveling up with this new patch. I am trying to give it a chance, but the fundamentals have been altered to a system that hasn’t been reworked entirely.

If they wanted to condense the traits from 5 = 1, then the lv cap should have been 30 rather than leave it at 80.

A trait a level starting at 15, condense zones from 1-15 to 1-5 and handout 5-6 skill points per level. That is a system they’ve implemented halfway, didn’t bother to calculate the existing elements like the 4 useless levels, and just threw the patch out there.

Gotta disagree a bit with this post. I find the leveling speed and difficulty has not changed, or if anything, has become easier. This is coming from someone who is notorious for never spending trait points. No joke I’ve hit level 55-60, then realized, doh! trait points! And then spent them all. If you keep your gear current, the traits really don’t matter leveling up. Sure, it’s nice, but completely unnecessary in this game.

Current alt is a 46 Mesmer who was sub-30 right at the start of the patch, so I’ve leveled through the “hard” part OP is talking about. It went by completely unnoticed. I’m pretty sure I still have to spend my trait points on that Mesmer, that’s how little a difference it makes…

If my GF who has the keyboard coordination of a blind monkey can level 4 chars to 80, one of which was an ele, you can too. And if you asked her about trait points, I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t even know what you were talking about. I’m not even sure she knows what the Hero panel is…

Nerelith.7360:

Playing a New Mesmer. I already have a Human mesmer, but decided to play another just to experience the new trait system. I am Not gonna be riding any Champion Trains, I will Not be getting assistance from high level alts. Will rely on whatever help I can get from Guildies to do events too hard for me to do simply with the help of My wife.

And that is why this ‘test’ will be useless to prove anything. Very few new players will have help from guildies (of very high lvl, or lvl 80, or even be in a guild) or a constant companion of higher level to do this stuff with. With these people babysitting you there won’t be anything you can’t do, that is not looking at it objectively. Even vets will find it difficult to ask/have a friend who would babysit them through all their traits in area’s higher that their level. Also there’s a hell of a lot of players who only play solo, are they now playing it wrong? Should they wait until 10 to 40 levels later to get a trait that was open to them at level 36?

You’ve already made it very clear you love this new change. but you will not look at it from any other perspective. How can all these changes be good for a new player coming to this game who might not have friends here yet. Yes he could meet people while out adventuring but they’d probably be the same level as him, and that would not be useful in getting the traits in area’s 10 lvls or more ahead of him.

Also (can’t remember where I read it) did you know that if you go to an area that is too high for your toon, enemies will be attracted to that low lvl player from a lot further away and will also be more aggro’d to that player? Yeah that’ll be fun trying to get 100% map completion for a trait.

How about you don’t use your constant companion (your wife), how about not using any guild mates? Or how about you only play with that player that offered to join you on starting new toons (I’ve forgotten his name, but he said he’d make a new toon with you and you agreed to play with him).

I like the idea of earning traits, but the old system was more fun and less of a grind because you could ‘play it your way’. There are some very valid points in this thread that you won’t even touch like how is a new player meant to be able to afford all the gold and skill points, while still playing the things they enjoy in a game that was not meant to be grindy.

When I played my first toon I really really enjoyed it, I played it my way, I played the game for the story of the missions. I could go to each 1-15 area and clear all of them, then move onto the next higher region’s (15-30 or whatever). I left the personal story until I had gotten to the area it took place in. Now I can’t do that. I either have to play without traits or i grind for gold and skill points (I didn’t get my first gold piece until lvl 60) or wait until I am the right level to enter that area. No mater what you try to say, thems the facts

Lishtenbird.2814:

nGumball.1283:

If you consider ever form of playing grinding then you shouldn’t play MMOs cause that’s how they are.

Playing any content I want to play with a character and leveling it is not grind.

Playing content that I do not want to be able to unlock traits for my characters is a grind.

Playing content that I do not want to be able to buy traits for my character is a grind.

Hey, did you notice we were talking not even about ascended mats locked behind specific content types and non-exchangeable for optional gear, but about basic character abilities known as traits?

There must be a line in “grinding”. For me, even gathering mats for full ascended was fun and not grind, because those +4.7% stats were optional, similar to how optional were the looks of illusionary forged weapons for me.

Are traits optional? No, they’re core features of any class, and having an 80-level Personal Story to unlock a Master trait is ridiculous, as ridiculous it is to pay 43 gold + 360 skill points for unlocking all traits.

People are saying that there’s no endgame; ANet’ve failed to deliver new persistent content, and now they’re trying to tell us that leveling is the new endgame – not by adding something new to leveling, but by making us play content which has been largely ignored. Can I agree with such a concept? No.

Nerelith.7360:

Maybe if we put our experiences of pre-patch gw2 aside, and try to see the game with new eyes, you may find it’s more fun? Just a thought.

If we forget how driving cars felt, maybe we may find riding horses is more fun?

Riding Horses IS more fun!

saye.9304:

but the question is why change to trait system now after almost 20 months? because of the expansion:)

I will believe that when I see it… I am just speculating here, but I think Anet already made a decision about where their development resources should go: Living Story or an expansion, but not both.

I would be more than surprised if GW2 ever offers a bonafide expansion. Until then, I have moved on with another MMO at this time. With every profession leveled to 80 and with only one new PvE map added since launch, there is just nothing else left to do but the ascended gear/fractal grind. I would consider PvP, but I do not agree with GW2’s homogenized PvE/PvP game design design philosophy.

Lostyus.4250:

Nerelith.7360:

Playing a New Mesmer. I already have a Human mesmer, but decided to play another just to experience the new trait system. I am Not gonna be riding any Champion Trains, I will Not be getting assistance from high level alts. Will rely on whatever help I can get from Guildies to do events too hard for me to do simply with the help of My wife.

And that is why this ‘test’ will be useless to prove anything. Very few new players will have help from guildies (of very high lvl, or lvl 80, or even be in a guild) or a constant companion of higher level to do this stuff with. With these people babysitting you there won’t be anything you can’t do, that is not looking at it objectively. Even vets will find it difficult to ask/have a friend who would babysit them through all their traits in area’s higher that their level. Also there’s a hell of a lot of players who only play solo, are they now playing it wrong? Should they wait until 10 to 40 levels later to get a trait that was open to them at level 36?

You’ve already made it very clear you love this new change. but you will not look at it from any other perspective. How can all these changes be good for a new player coming to this game who might not have friends here yet. Yes he could meet people while out adventuring but they’d probably be the same level as him, and that would not be useful in getting the traits in area’s 10 lvls or more ahead of him.

Also (can’t remember where I read it) did you know that if you go to an area that is too high for your toon, enemies will be attracted to that low lvl player from a lot further away and will also be more aggro’d to that player? Yeah that’ll be fun trying to get 100% map completion for a trait.

How about you don’t use your constant companion (your wife), how about not using any guild mates? Or how about you only play with that player that offered to join you on starting new toons (I’ve forgotten his name, but he said he’d make a new toon with you and you agreed to play with him).

I like the idea of earning traits, but the old system was more fun and less of a grind because you could ‘play it your way’. There are some very valid points in this thread that you won’t even touch like how is a new player meant to be able to afford all the gold and skill points, while still playing the things they enjoy in a game that was not meant to be grindy.

When I played my first toon I really really enjoyed it, I played it my way, I played the game for the story of the missions. I could go to each 1-15 area and clear all of them, then move onto the next higher region’s (15-30 or whatever). I left the personal story until I had gotten to the area it took place in. Now I can’t do that. I either have to play without traits or i grind for gold and skill points (I didn’t get my first gold piece until lvl 60) or wait until I am the right level to enter that area. No mater what you try to say, thems the facts

My wife is the same level as My new character. She also made a new character after the patch. So No…I will Not have a constant level 80 companion.

Secondly, in the guild I am in…people help others all the time. it’s not Like they go." Oh is this a new Player? you don’t have a level 80 main??? off with you then."

Your objections do not match reality. It will be no harder for a new player to get into a Guild than for a veteran player. if your experience is different , maybe you Just hit up the wrong guilds?

In DR I constantly see " levelling guild looking for players for fun, groups… and events… hit me up with a whisper."

Know what i have Never seen?

" Guild looking for players with ONLY level 80 mains..and veteran Players, if you are a new player, and Playing a main that is under level 80, you need not apply."

Of course this is now a cue for you to somehow invalidate my experience in GW2 because it doesn’t help your argument.

Like you assumed My wife is playing a level 80? or that my guild will not accept new players…or help new players with content?

Nerelith.7360:

I have to agree. I remember loving EverQuest. Anyone that hates ’ the grind" on Gw2…would literally fling EverQuest out the window. I think that there are some players that see play= grind. Unless what they are doing is " what I want to do."

Exactly, you got it! People are playing GW2 because it’s not some hardcore EverQuest; people have a job and a life and get a casual MMO to spend their evenings in a fun way doing what they like when they like without any subscription fee – and that’s what made the game popular. Introducing this change at this stage is wrong, because people who bought Game A now have to play Game B, or pay more money to convert to gold and unlock the ability to play their character.

Does it promote gold sink? Yes.

Does it encourage gem purchases? Yes.

Does it make more people play old content which has already been paid for instead of paying to design new content? Yes.

Is it a win-win? For the developer – yes. For a new player – no difference. For an old loyal customer – more of a post-buy rip-off.

Nerelith.7360:

Riding Horses IS more fun!

…when you want it, how you want it:) Not every day to job through rain, mud and melting snow in your business suit, right?;)

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t find the current system any more ‘dull’ than the previous system. You’re still doing the same things as before.

Not everyone is PvE player.

Nerelith.7360:

Will rely on whatever help I can get from Guildies to do events too hard for me to do simply with the help of My wife.

First of all, congratulations on marrying your girlfriend from the post 3 hours ago.

“Rely on help”. And you really thing your run with fresh character will be objective? Especially from the perspective of a new player?

They fail to realize that most MMO’s prior to World of Warcraft made players earn what they attained. Maybe it’s simply that most players have only started playing MMO’s with World of Warcraft or a World of Warcraft clone, and Now feel that The WoW template where everything is handed to them On a silver platter .. (compared with games Like EverQuest… where most had to be clawed out and gouged out at risk to life, limb, and inventory…. Look up corpse runs … exp loss on death… etc. ) Gw2 seems to be following the GW1/EQ format.

Sometimes having more challenge makes for a better game. If people approach this game with that in mind, maybe they will see these changes are not bad for the game, just harder than things were before.

I see you like to be punished. I wonder why did most MMOs turned away from this model? And many new advertise as “sandbox”? If you are feeling not punished enough you are free to play without traits and in starting gear. As for harder content, new should be added instead of dragging out the time we need to complete previous.

Lishtenbird.2814:

nGumball.1283:

If you consider ever form of playing grinding then you shouldn’t play MMOs cause that’s how they are.

Playing any content I want to play with a character and leveling it is not grind.

Playing content that I do not want to be able to unlock traits for my characters is a grind.

Playing content that I do not want to be able to buy traits for my character is a grind.

This is it.

Leveling is just as easy as before and I can still complete maps above my level and in under leveled gear. Unless you only know how to use AA there should be no problems. About the transmutation stones. There is actually a large variety of armors below level 80 you can get from crafting/drops/karma/cultural AND if it’s an alt you can use all the expensive dyes on your main from the start.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Nerelith.7360:

I have to agree. I remember loving EverQuest. Anyone that hates ’ the grind" on Gw2…would literally fling EverQuest out the window. I think that there are some players that see play= grind. Unless what they are doing is " what I want to do."

Exactly, you got it! People are playing GW2 because it’s not some hardcore EverQuest; people have a job and a life and get a casual MMO to spend their evenings in a fun way doing what they like when they like without any subscription fee – and that’s what made the game popular. Introducing this change at this stage is wrong, because people who bought Game A now have to play Game B, or pay more money to convert to gold and unlock the ability to play their character.

Does it promote gold sink? Yes.

Does it encourage gem purchases? Yes.

Does it make more people play old content which has already been paid for instead of paying to design new content? Yes.

Is it a win-win? For the developer – yes. For a new player – no difference. For an old loyal customer – more of a post-buy rip-off.

Nerelith.7360:

Riding Horses IS more fun!

…when you want it, how you want it:) Not every day to job through rain, mud and melting snow in your business suit, right?;)

To be honest…. I Might actually enjoy this… Minus the business suit, that of course goes in a bag so it doesn’t get wet. Listen the Horse analogy is wrong to use with me, if I could go everywhere riding a Horse I would, regardless of weather, I just love riding horses. Maybe you can find another?

JustARTificial.3175:

@LanfearShadowflame I’m not debating the 5 skill points to 1. That’s fine. HOWEVER, there has to be something ,ore worthwhile than 20 more hp, every time I level whilst waiting for the next skill point 4 more levels down.

30 = Gear, SP, Trait
31 = SP
32 = SP
33 = SP
34 = SP
35 = Gear (If you’re doing it be 5’s, most by 10), SP
36 = Trait, SP
37 = SP
38 = SP
39 = SP
40 = Gear, SP

Spend 2 of those SP to unlock a trait, considering the ridiculous quests for the current lv, and the progressions 3x slower. That is a PAINFULLY slow progression system. Once you get to 80, the game’s functions open up and it’s completely different. Trans Crystals are worthwhile, SP’s becomes a much more accessible currency with the rapid progression, builds are made and changed on the fly, etc…

The new functions implemented like re-traiting on the fly, is not even experienced whilst leveling. The systems brought in, don’t measure up to what they’ve changed and taken away.

And as for those saying consider this a new experience; I AM. I am leveling up with this new patch. I am trying to give it a chance, but the fundamentals have been altered to a system that hasn’t been reworked entirely.

If they wanted to condense the traits from 5 = 1, then the lv cap should have been 30 rather than leave it at 80.

A trait a level starting at 15, condense zones from 1-15 to 1-5 and handout 5-6 skill points per level. That is a system they’ve implemented halfway, didn’t bother to calculate the existing elements like the 4 useless levels, and just threw the patch out there.

Yeah, I get that. Like I said, the system aint perfect.

I would have preferred if traits had started at 20, and then happened every 5 or 6 levels. Then people would have just a bit longer to work with them.

Of course, perhaps just swapping the ‘heavy’ side of the traits to the beginning, rather than the end might help too. Maybe get 2 per, your first 4 times, instead of your last 4.

Or, get 2 at 30 and then every other time get 2 (42, 54, 66). Since getting so many right at the very start might be less than useful.

Any of those would help with the ability to play with some build crafting prior to getting to 80. Allow for some experimentation. And make you look forward to hitting those benchmarks.

I don’t really see their implementation as that much different than other games though. Most seem to always have ‘pointless’ levels between such goal posts. I don’t really think there is much they could do to liven that up, not and still make things meaningful.

I’m right there with you though. Like I said, I’m leveling characters too. Just to try this system out. Both grandfathered and non-grandfathered character types.

Prior to the patch, playing an elementalist, even in a starter area was an exercise in frustration: Attacks felt weak, and a level 20 ele could easily be one-shotted by a level 4 bandit if you didn’t see the attack coming.

Post patch, I rolled another elementalist to see if anything had change for what I had come to consider a completely useless class. It had: Attacks felt powerful, addiing stones to armour actually felt like it made a difference, and the staff, an incredibly weak weapon before now actually felt like it had a purpose.

My current ele is only level 12 and I have yet to venture beyond Queensdale but the difference pre- and post-patch is like night and day. Stranger still, I’m finding that I’m enjoying playing an elementalist again for the first time since launch.

It doesn’t really make much sense how they staggered the trait points. IMO, instead of giving 2 the last few levels, they should just give 1 every 6 levels starting at 12. Otherwise, I don’t have any problem with the new system.

Aside from the fact that we now get 5 trait points every 6 levels, when before we got 1 trait point / level.. having a net loss of 1 Point every 5 levels. I do Not see How this is so horrid as some claim.

Before I would level… 2 or 3 or 4 levels in a Given session, and forget to even apply the points, because… + 10 power or + 1 % condition duration, did not mean much.

so:

30 + 1 Trait point
31 + 1
32 + 1
33 + 1
34 + 1
35 + 1
36 + 1

is no worse than:

30 +1 new trait point = + 5 old.
31
32
33
34
35
36 +1 new trait point = + 5 old.

Wait I think My math is bad… that looks Like + 3 net gain on trait points. I Must be wrong. That would just make the levelling experience seem Like there is more of a feel of progressing…. at least for me.

Maybe I am missing something. But at least in MY experience…. getting that trait point before meant almost nothing. Could it be this is Just an irrational fear of the nerf that is really not much of a nerf experience wise?

Edit:

I Know that many will say that before 30 there were 19 trait points that are now Lost.. but..My experience of Mobs is… we don’t need them, the game is absurdly easy even if you don’t spend a single trait point.

Why is everyone glossing over the fact leveling up means nothing in this anymore? Are you happy that the game has transitioned into this dull clicking game?

4 levels have no purpose anymore. Anet have literally removed the purpose they had, thus reducing their worth.

Trans Stones have been removed, so 2 Map Completions would net you a full gear appearance has now become 6 Map Completions which is also the same currency used when you are 80.

You have to spend 40+ Gold, 80+ Skill Points just to have what would have costed 4 Gold.

There’s NO incentive. AT ALL. What does anyone get coming into this game, that someone on an 80 character doesn’t have? What justifies 10x the Gold required with an additional 80 traits? Is my experience anymore enjoyable that what they had? No because they spent 5 silver max just to respec whilst we have to spend 2 Gold and 2 Skill points to get a single trait.

If Anet seriously wanted to enforce grinding, fine. Enforce the Train even further by marking each champ in Queensdale globally 24/7 across every single character. It’s clearly what Anet want.

I made a elementalist after the patch as I wanted to experience the new trait functions and I have to say that it really isn’t hard to level. Sure, it requires kiting and dodging, but that’s how this game works. I can’t really compare before and after the patch, but I can safely say that it really isn’t hard to level.