Guild Wars 2

Revilrad.1962:

1. Mounts :
Not needed. WP System is the existing solution of going fast from place to place. Those who want mounts want just another tier of collectibles to get busy. Not a real use out of it.

2.Duelling : PvP in GW2 is built around teamwork and classes are optimized/nerfed/buffed around this system. Some classes are clearly superior to others and inferior to some. Duelling would be just frustrating.

3.Open World PvP : Reason for Trolling. Hate between players. Factions dont fit into current story of all against Elder Dragons.

4.Holy Trinity : Please no. 1 Step closer to generic MMO.

8 : DPS Meter. Inspect Gear. Inspect Gear is actuall a nice addition. DPS meter would just be one step closer to generic one best build/equipment approach. Destroys variabilty and forces everyone use the same build.

12. Player to Player Trading : Did you ever played Diablo 2? Reason for bans, hate frustrating and new chinese player explosion.

wow u are so d…. first of all people already are using the same build is called BERSERK ER gear second of all dueling is nice add u don’t have to duel if you are noob let the rest of us enjoy having fun in towns dueling for fun wasting time in this game and 3 there is reason why there is holy trinity you can create awesome content whit that mode inside your kittening game raids pvp dungeons right now we have shallow copy of and mmo staking and killing in dungeons not smart play no positioning no healing there is no support role there is no tank role there is no need its only DPS rush it always was that so adding that and the dps meter will only improve this game

Extensive list which will be ignored to the day this company goes down the drain.
Not caring about the game, employees burning out and leaving also not caring about the player base is already reflecting a lot on this forum and in game except for new players of core.

Gele.2048:

Revilrad.1962:

1. Mounts :
Not needed. WP System is the existing solution of going fast from place to place. Those who want mounts want just another tier of collectibles to get busy. Not a real use out of it.

2.Duelling : PvP in GW2 is built around teamwork and classes are optimized/nerfed/buffed around this system. Some classes are clearly superior to others and inferior to some. Duelling would be just frustrating.

3.Open World PvP : Reason for Trolling. Hate between players. Factions dont fit into current story of all against Elder Dragons.

4.Holy Trinity : Please no. 1 Step closer to generic MMO.

8 : DPS Meter. Inspect Gear. Inspect Gear is actuall a nice addition. DPS meter would just be one step closer to generic one best build/equipment approach. Destroys variabilty and forces everyone use the same build.

12. Player to Player Trading : Did you ever played Diablo 2? Reason for bans, hate frustrating and new chinese player explosion.

wow u are so d…. first of all people already are using the same build is called BERSERK ER gear second of all dueling is nice add u don’t have to duel if you are noob let the rest of us enjoy having fun in towns dueling for fun wasting time in this game and 3 there is reason why there is holy trinity you can create awesome content whit that mode inside your kittening game raids pvp dungeons right now we have shallow copy of and mmo staking and killing in dungeons not smart play no positioning no healing there is no support role there is no tank role there is no need its only DPS rush it always was that so adding that and the dps meter will only improve this game

you CAN always REFUSE DUEL in any MMO if u are not good or you dont enjoy it dont play it but I LIKE IT there is THING in option click it ALWAYS refuse DUEL so you can always play the same game why the kitten u are so afraid of OPTIONS you dont have to use it let the rest of us ENJOY this is so selfish so so so selfish

The Op is an interesting read, but the bias is heavy. The consenus, is almost always his particular conclusion, rather than the consensus on what people have to say on the topics.
Would be more usefull if it was more neutral.

Say! What is this other game? That sounds like the one we should be playing! It has everything!

CrashTestAuto.9108:

I understand the logic of leaving off things that have (some, extremely negligible) attention, but a list of the most commonly discussed issues which doesn’t mention trait changes, Cantha, hobosacks or SAB seems a bit off…

This post caused me to revisit the OP’s list. Most of the issues raised by the OP concern features that exist in other games but are absent or different in GW2. All but one, in fact. Note how often the pros include, “That other game has it.” and the cons include, “You can go back to that other game.” The only issue he’s expanded on that does not is New Professions/Skills etc.

Trait changes, hobosacks and SAB are issues that are GW2-specific. As to Cantha, every time it comes up, the new thread is merged with the old behemoth, so maybe the OP didn’t bother to read it. I know I gave up after a bit.

As to posters being divided about the subjects on the OP’s list, this makes perfect sense. Some players bought GW2 because they hated other MMO’s, others bought it because they liked other MMO’s. How could there not be conflict?

As for me, most of the features on the list don’t excite me. The exceptions are new professions (etc.) and expansions. The rest are meh.

Oh, except for Open PvP in the PvE world, which I strongly oppose because I believe if ANet were to do it, they’d want to do it right — which would involve huge, sweeping changes to a game world that I prefer as it is. While PvP aficionados might be happy with a separate server where they could PvP with nothing else changed, I doubt a professional development company would be willing to implement such a feature half kittened.

That other game with many of these items could refer to Guild Wars 1 which is where, I’m sure, a lot of people look when deferring Guild Wars 2’s success.

Personally I would have Traits – NPE- Crafting lack of cost benefit – WvW aswell

Some of these don’t have much ‘action’ on the main Forum but they are ‘big’ issues overall in the game for forum contributors:

WvW is stuck in a holding pattern, I miss the orbs myself, it needs a refresh/new map/mechanics…

Crafting – I really don’t think people who don’t want Ascended are in any way encouraged to craft, it shouldn’t cost me 5 silver to make a lvl 40 food buff that sells for 3copper…

NPE – it desperately needs a Veteran opt out at the least

Traits – almost nobody LIKEA this change – it needs to revert or be revamped

I would agree with most of what you say if you actually took the time to defend both sides equally.

1. YES, Why? Diversity.
2.YEs.
3. YES
4.YES
5. YES
6. YES
7. YES
8.YES
9.YES
10.YES
11. YES
12. YES
13. YES
14.YES
15. YES
16.YES
17.YES
18.YES
19.YES
20.YES
21.YES

why? because we are bored like hell.

The amount of self-injected bias into each of the topics makes me question if this was a sincere thread about commonly discussed topics or just an overview on your personal opinions.

[=] Consensus

Your thread is not a consensus.

Wait, so your own opinion on topics now constitutes for what the general GW2 community thinks?

So much effort put into trying to paint your own opinions as “consensus”, yet the bias is still so blatantly obvious. Sad.

Gaile Gray.6029:

This is a very helpful post, Lishtenbird. Naturally, given the pros and cons of any subject is difficult; in fact it may be impossible given that of 1,000 forum members, 994.2 have different opinions on the same subject. Nonetheless, I think you’ve made a great start, and I commend you both for your energy and for the thoughtfulness that prompted you to start this thread.

Those who feel differently about a specific area of player interest are welcome to present their thoughts in this thread. But the objective would be — in my mind’s eye at least — to be objective, to be as neutral and unbiased as possible.

The dev team can derive the most benefit from this thread (and from pretty much any compilation thread) when they can review a calm, concise, equal-minded presentation of the opinions of our players.

Thank you again!

Oh I am glad you said this, Now allow us “the non devs” the ability to up vote topics and have them sticky’d. So these highly debated topics will always have a place at the top of the pile. Where they can be seen, so the opening of new threads with the same topic will not be the topic of discussion in the new thread. You know like when someone comes up with a new idea on eg: mounts and would like to share the idea or opinion, but as soon as they do the opposing faction ridicule him for not searching the forum, even if this person is new to the forums or when the idea they have is something never seen before.

But I do not agree with the later statement about the Dev’s benefiting from looking at a compilation to make the best decisions(well you actually would benefit from not have to read everything, but we the gamer would benefit the least). What if there are multiply threads which is a major problem here, if the dev’s only concentrate on looking to the compilations they might miss something in one of those threads as well as the OP. Also the OP of the compilation might not update his thread with every source and or might just stop updating info all together.

While I am actually firmly on Lishtenbird’s side of the fence with regards to many of these issues, I have to admit that his posts do seem biased towards our stance on them.

Still, this is a helpful summary of the common requests and threads that pop up on the General Forum, and whether any information from ANet has been forthcoming about it.

Lishtenbird.2814:

This is a list of commonly discussed topics of the GW2 forum

Don’t forget the topic of whether WvW should be part of world completion or not. I’d say that is one of the more common discussion topics.

Hardly helpful when the OP is so biased but w/e..

Wee bit condescending but if you can look beyond that it provides a reasonable, if incomplete, summary.

Ryuu.5608:

Hardly helpful when the OP is so biased but w/e..

Maybe if people were actually constructive and helped flesh out the bullet points to be more balanced it would be more helpful.

@OP
I think you should expand the pros in the same format you did the cons. Instead of saying “some other game” name the game specifically so there’s a valid comparison. Doing so makes it seem like a more balanced approach, where as now it does seem like you favor the cons for everything.

The conclusion is where your bias shows the most. Saying “I think” is your opinion on it and not a general consensus. Perhaps if you renamed it a summary and made it a brief description it would help, or just remove it altogether and let the list of pros/cons stand on it’s own. It seems like your purpose is to display the common arguments, not use it as a base to create another argument.

You should go take a second look at the wvw forums because there are some major topics that should be listed here, like the balancing issues.

Also, I really think you should remove the consensus section of your post because the large amounts of bias distracts readers from the point of the thread(as I am sure you have noticed).

“A lot of people who can look beyond their inner Scrooge and see the whole picture agree that player to player trading will hurt more than help.”

If you are gonna make a list for people to use as reference, then statements like that are not going to help. You should have a neutral approach to both sides.

Just my opinion :P

Edit: Also, your stance on each topic is pretty obvious with the size difference of each pros and cons list lol

So I think that we should take special note that when the topic is presented that the OP had some bias and his perception of the community consensus may be skewed or needs some editing, but the content itself has some value.

I firmly sit on the opposite side of most of these negatives, but I also understand from a development and resource side they are not feasible (such as open world guild housing, or dueling). Certain other things I do think need to be reworked, such as opting out of the NPE (and not making this crazy skill trait hunt perm for people who have all these alts. I’m working on my 8th or something like that and trait hunt is bull, and blowing scrolls which did admittingly need a sink is dumb as well). I think many of those topics could also potentially be some good CDI threads or at least deserve some kind of final ‘yes/no’ from an Anet official to put them to rest. For example, “we will NEVER do XXX so you can stop asking” and we can get an official redirect and say “go to the thread” but many of these topics do not get killed off completely. Also, we should add the Cantha thread in to this equation because that historically is the largest and longest thread we have maintained here and maybe some other features could be rolled into that? Of all the most requested things, Cantha is tops.

Also I would like to say that personally, as a long time gw1 veteran still sticking around alot of these expectations or ideas that come up in the thread do seem valid, since the original game did have some of these features and were implemented wonderfully (trait build templates, alliance battles, gvg, instanced guild halls, etc). Personally I cannot fathom why such useful features and game modes were taken out that people enjoyed so much instead of having them expanded. But that’s just my two cents. That’s probably where alot of unrest is originating from, players want things that were present in a previous experience and having to ask for what they already had is a bit frustrating, but that’s another topic for another day.

Very good, however, very biased. You also didn’t include things like the camera or the gambling aspect of certain gem shop items… If you’re going to do something like this, you should prolly just quote posters then change consensus to “my conclusions”.

I think Arena has been pretty clear about mounts. Releasing mount like items is hopefully as close as we ever get to having mounts

I would say, the holy trinity is a lot more about lack of roles in most content, which ties back to the zerker meta discussion.

with all of the posts on this forum, your pros are are so weak… its obvious you made this simply because youre tired of reading the same topics of complaints, like the rest of us, but please dont hide it in a troll type manner. If you put anywhere near half the work into pros that you did cons, I would give you an internet high five but you simply rag dolled anyone who wants change, or at least likes to talk about it

Gaile Gray.6029:

This is a very helpful post, Lishtenbird. Naturally, given the pros and cons of any subject is difficult; in fact it may be impossible given that of 1,000 forum members, 994.2 have different opinions on the same subject. Nonetheless, I think you’ve made a great start, and I commend you both for your energy and for the thoughtfulness that prompted you to start this thread.

Those who feel differently about a specific area of player interest are welcome to present their thoughts in this thread. But the objective would be — in my mind’s eye at least — to be objective, to be as neutral and unbiased as possible.

The dev team can derive the most benefit from this thread (and from pretty much any compilation thread) when they can review a calm, concise, equal-minded presentation of the opinions of our players.

Thank you again!

Thanks for pitching in, Gaile! I appreciate it. Red posts do attract attention to threads.

I will try to polish the topic to be more neutral; I think some players can help me in providing concise summaries of pros/cons I’ve missed.

I believe this thread will be most useful for players who are interested in discussing these topics, not devs themselves (especially since the non-working search function gives the misleading impression that these topics have never been discussed); still, it cannot pretty much link them to anything since there are many different threads on the subject, but no centralized places to discuss these topics. How would moderators feel about merging some most valuable threads and bringing them back to player’s attention? Or maybe creating new megathreads and merging the newly emerging threads back into those?

StinVec.3621:

As a bit of a tip, in case you would be interested in it:

Oh, that’s great! I was under the impression that this forum’s textile only supports the very basic stuff. Will try to put in some changes.

Note: I’ll answer most concerns with another post later.

OP, I agree with most of your conclusions, but your post is extremely biased. Hint: you can’t have a “consensus” that starts with “I think/I feel.” Also, “topic has been discussed at length” is not a new conclusion; isn’t that what your whole thread is about in the first place?

You may want to change out “consensus” for “Current state of affairs” or something. Couch your conclusions in terms of what is officially known and provide links as evidence.

woah… that other game seems to have a kitten lot of content I never knew…
Nice to know!

Gele.2048:

Revilrad.1962:

1. Mounts :
Not needed. WP System is the existing solution of going fast from place to place. Those who want mounts want just another tier of collectibles to get busy. Not a real use out of it.

2.Duelling : PvP in GW2 is built around teamwork and classes are optimized/nerfed/buffed around this system. Some classes are clearly superior to others and inferior to some. Duelling would be just frustrating.

3.Open World PvP : Reason for Trolling. Hate between players. Factions dont fit into current story of all against Elder Dragons.

4.Holy Trinity : Please no. 1 Step closer to generic MMO.

8 : DPS Meter. Inspect Gear. Inspect Gear is actuall a nice addition. DPS meter would just be one step closer to generic one best build/equipment approach. Destroys variabilty and forces everyone use the same build.

12. Player to Player Trading : Did you ever played Diablo 2? Reason for bans, hate frustrating and new chinese player explosion.

wow u are so d…. first of all people already are using the same build is called BERSERK ER gear second of all dueling is nice add u don’t have to duel if you are noob let the rest of us enjoy having fun in towns dueling for fun wasting time in this game and 3 there is reason why there is holy trinity you can create awesome content whit that mode inside your kittening game raids pvp dungeons right now we have shallow copy of and mmo staking and killing in dungeons not smart play no positioning no healing there is no support role there is no tank role there is no need its only DPS rush it always was that so adding that and the dps meter will only improve this game

Search Forums about whining because of Zerker Build Domination in GW2. This is a serious issue in the game at the moment. Expect anet to nerf or buff to fix this soon. No body wants a one build dominated RPG. This is just silly. If you see GW2 as a DPS race, please be my guest. But suggesting improvements about the game should be about balancing and not otherwise.

Besides I enjoy PvP and play it regularly. If I bring an argument about the inbalances of the professions that doesnt mean im a kitty. Your argument here is exactly the kind of bullying and harassment which was meant in the OP.

Now to answer the questions/criticism.

You said it’s commonly discussed, but X and Y are not on the list.

I think I’ve determined what the criteria is: controversy within the community itself. Like, whether there are considerable amounts of people who have opposite opinions on the subject. So, if there is no large group of people saying “NO to Cantha, we hate Asian designs!” or “NO to SAB, don’t ever put it back!” or “DO NOT change hobosacks, they are canon!” or “YES, we want to unlock traits for every alt by going over the same things all over again, don’t change it!” – then this topic is not going to be on the list. WvW map completion and gemstore gambling may be good topics to add, though.

I may change the name of the thread to “List of Common Controversial Forum Topics” – how about that one?

It’s “your own opinion”, not a “consensus”.

Even here, some people agree and some don’t. Here’s the best way to prove me wrong: provide links to the most valuable threads on the topic, as I will also be able to add them to the respective topics for other people to refer to. And as I said earlier to Gaile, how about necroing/merging/creating separate megathreads so that we have a definite place for new people to start?

I will also look into ways of eliminating subjective remarks like “inner Scrooge”.

I like the idea of renaming “consensus” to “current state of affairs”, too. Will do. The “I think…” part was supposed to be perceived as separate since it starts with “I think”, but meh.

Your “pro” reasoning is shorter than “con”, so it’s biased.

As said earlier in this thread, isn’t it usually like that in real life? Everyone already knows why something is good. Look, you say:

- Let’s get a cat! I love cats, cats are cool!

…and then your opponent goes into details on why you shouldn’t. You don’t say:

- Let’s get a cat! I love cats, because their bodylines are very elegant, and their ears are nice to touch, and their tails are so fluffy, and they drink milk with their pink tongue in a cute way, and they go “meow!” and “purr”, and my favourite color is red so we should get a red cat with darker stripes, so it looks like a tiger, and I like tigers too! My grandma gave me a cat when I was little and I had a very emotional moment with it, and that cat looked like a small tiger and went “meow!” and “purr” and drank milk!

…because “cats are cool” pretty much sums it up, and there’s little point in going into detail. Even if you’re a dog person, you already know what cat people find in cats. Discussing “why not”, though, always requires more detail:

- Children can be allergic to cats, you have to clean the house a lot if you have a cat, cats can get ill, feeding them is quite costly, you won’t be able to go on a vacation without leaving the cat to someone, meowing can get annoying, cats can damage furniture, you can’t leave small stuff around or the cat can eat it and get ill…

Let’s expand “pros” nevertheless.

Okay. You can suggest the “pros” in the same bullet form to your favourite topics. Still, I would ask you to look for a good reasoning which is not going into excessive details and is not already included into the shorter versions. Here’s what I mean:

• “Many people enjoy riding horses IRL or like the looks but can’t do it IRL, so they can enjoy it in GW2 if we get mounts” = “Mounts are cool”
• “Riding a mount in a videogame makes your hero better, as it shows he was able to tame a mighty creature” = “Mounts are cool”

Your “con” for the topic is wrong, here’s why…

It may even be wrong in my opinion, but it is an opinion I have heard quite a lot. If you wish to discuss it, it’s better to direct it to those who voiced it, not me. And in the respective threads.

Why so many “that other game”? Why not name it?

As said earlier in this thread, “I saw it in another game and want it here” is a popular reasoning just because people use it as such. Showing what you like is faster than describing it. If you wish to add specific games to each topic’s reasoning, you can suggest them in this thread – best examples in each field are always good.

Perhaps if the OP had not applied the copy paste method, exclamation marks, and obligatory one liners to every single pro argument, it would have been far more difficult to discern just how controversial his (rather skewed) list of arguments really is.
Not to mention the generic cons arguments one could apply to just about anything, such as these:

•Let’s face it: people who can’t live without infinite progression in games are usually teenagers who have unsatisfied desires in real life and urge to dominate and humiliate others in video games as a compensation.

•Let’s face it: people who can’t live without competition in games are usually teenagers who have unsatisfied desires in real life and urge to dominate and humiliate others in video games as a compensation.

Here’s mine!

•Let’s face it: people who argue against diversity are usually narrow-minded adults in their mid-thirties or older who are – due to age, style of life, old habits etc – unwilling or unable to realize differences and diversity are overall a net gain, rather than a net loss, and do in no way influence nor prevent them from enjoying and playing the game the way they wish to.

Such reasoning can be applied to every single feature you listed, meaning there’s virtually no point to this thread, as it contributes absolutely nothing towards improving the game (if that even was a goal to start with), bar for making another hollow thread for the sake of arguing. It’s not funny, not about drama, does not provide feedback, nor is it a list of bugs/solutions – ergo, it is useless.

Given that the OP’s list is about “controversial” topics and not a single WvW topic is in it, can I conclude that the lack of development in the WvW area is not controversial at all, so there is a form of consensus there?

Agreed, this list is a tad too biased.
No thanks.

One more to add to the list:

• Precursor Crafting

Long overdue and plenty of debate on it from hoarders, TP ‘gurus’ and people who legitimately want a non-RNG way to obtain the hardest-to-get item(s) in the game.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

One more to add to the list:

• Precursor Crafting

Long overdue and plenty of debate on it from hoarders, TP ‘gurus’ and people who legitimately want a non-RNG way to obtain the hardest-to-get item(s) in the game.

Very very very very bad idea.
There is almost NOTHING in this game which is not aquirable by doing mindless CoF Runs and buy it in TP.

What actually need to be done is to make Pre-Cursors soulbound so they are not tradable.
Only that would make a legendary an actuall long term goal and reason to farm.

So you prefer to be entirely dependend on RNG instead of having an option to Get it guaranteed? Sounds like a terrible idea. What if you Get two of the same precursors, would be pretty kittenty feeling.

Revised points 1-5, started adding some extra formatting.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

One more to add to the list:

• Precursor Crafting

Long overdue and plenty of debate on it from hoarders, TP ‘gurus’ and people who legitimately want a non-RNG way to obtain the hardest-to-get item(s) in the game.

Could you provide some links to representative threads?

I for one think that this is not a very good comprehension of the discussions that have been going on. I would much more appreciate links to the last threads of each topics, since the search function isn’t working.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I would much more appreciate links to the last threads of each topics, since the search function isn’t working.

Threads are all over the forum, with some new threads having far less value then older ones, and those who are most interested in the topics should have them at hand or be able to find relatively easily. In this post I encouraged players to provide links to the best threads on their favourite subjects so that I can add them.

Wow…according to this guys, the current state of affairs seems to be:
I do not see mounts ever being added game-wide.
I do not see dueling ever being added as a supported game type, as it would cause either a class balance disaster or a community disaster.
I do not see open world PvP ever added to GW2.
I do not see an expansion being released in a foreseeable future.
I think that no one is going to overhaul the game at this point.
I do not see gear progression or level cap raise implemented in any foreseeable future.
I do not see player to player trading ever added to GW2.
I do not see marriage ever added to GW2, at least in the foreseeable future of active development and before it is abandoned for GW3.

What a depressing thread. I see the mount situation being resolved by little no no speed increases, if you don’t want to do housing do instanced housing to keep it out of the open world.
Gear progression is going to be needed sooner or later, people need something to work towards. Thats only my opinion because I’ve never seen anything else work, and I’m only recently returning after me and my friend left when we realized that once you hit 80 and get your first set of dungeon gear its kind of a story chaser….There seems to be alot more stuff to do so I’m happy now but I hope something comes up in the future.
An expansion can only be positive. We’ve all got our 50$ worth a long time ago, and we want content. Im sure we would all shell out another 50$ for a new continent, maybe one where mounts WONT ruin the game and everyone can have their way. It will also bring players, aka money.
Raids i expect in an MMO with any kind of end game, its the top tier for player coordination.
Those are my opinions, but regardless of anyones opinions these are all issues with people obviously on both sides, and the devs are going to need to take SOME risks on issues like these and pick a side, and for god sakes i hope once in awhile its not the side where nothing ever changes

Aaeras.7814:

Wow…according to this guys, the current state of affairs seems to be:
I do not see mounts ever being added game-wide.
I do not see dueling ever being added as a supported game type, as it would cause either a class balance disaster or a community disaster.
I do not see open world PvP ever added to GW2.
I do not see an expansion being released in a foreseeable future.
I think that no one is going to overhaul the game at this point.
I do not see gear progression or level cap raise implemented in any foreseeable future.
I do not see player to player trading ever added to GW2.
I do not see marriage ever added to GW2, at least in the foreseeable future of active development and before it is abandoned for GW3.

This is an excellent sum up of things we are not going to see in 2015-2017. This, in fact, looks like the Guild Wars 2 Roadmap which was never provided to us.

Never is a bit too long time though – miracles do happen.

Aaeras.7814:

Wow…according to this guys, the current state of affairs seems to be:
I do not see mounts ever being added game-wide.
I do not see dueling ever being added as a supported game type, as it would cause either a class balance disaster or a community disaster.
I do not see open world PvP ever added to GW2.
I do not see an expansion being released in a foreseeable future.
I think that no one is going to overhaul the game at this point.
I do not see gear progression or level cap raise implemented in any foreseeable future.
I do not see player to player trading ever added to GW2.
I do not see marriage ever added to GW2, at least in the foreseeable future of active development and before it is abandoned for GW3.

What a depressing thread.

On the contrary. Quite a lot of the players are seriously happy if mounts stay out of this game, PvE-zones remain cooperative instead of competitive and the only progression in the future will be a horizontal one. It’s the reason why they came here in the first place.

And that is why this thread is called “controversial” topics. Players have extremely different opinions about what they think is good and what is missing or should go away. Lots of players will tell you “if you miss trinity, vertical progression and open-world PvP then this may not be the game for you. This is the game for us, who do not want these features”. And IMO they are right. This is that place, no need to be like all the other games already existing. I want diversity among games, but not necessarily in a single game, since it won’t work. You cannot have open-world PvP and no open-world PvP at the same time in the same game, you cannot have mounts and no mounts, you cannot have trinity and no trinity, so this game has made a decision. It is up to each player to find out whether the mix provided here is what they like.

Note that this is different from the request for more content, fixing of bugs etc.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Perhaps if the OP had not applied the copy paste method, exclamation marks, and obligatory one liners to every single pro argument, it would be far more difficult to discern just how controversial his (rather skewed) list of arguments really is.

+1 to this.

The lists has also completely left out the “pro” = adds: “variety”, “additional content” or “variety of options” to the existing game and can ALWAYS be made to detract = “NONE”.

Need clarification? Dueling for example. If done correctly is toggle-able to auto-decline, and can be set as the default. Thus you have to turn it on. For those that oppose dueling (for this example), there is no excuse, banter or argument that has yet to be given that can say why the option should NOT be added. As those that want would use it, those that don’t, never know its even there.

( ^You want a pro on the argument for…have at it. )

Semantics aside, people opposing many in the list simply are arguing against having more options in the game. There is simply no reason to not add content to the game.
Break every option to its base: Add content. Everything in the list I summed up with two words. And outside of hardware or software limitations, there is NEVER an excuse to not add content to a MMO game.

Disagree? Then name one GOOD reason (not listed below) why that is incorrect. Cause I’d honestly like to see it.

(And I’ll cut one off before it even starts, saying “Dev time / resources” as an excuse, is not an excuse because, they will get paid the same regardless of whether they make something you like or not. Their pay check isn’t getting increased because players approved of some change. They didn’t take a pay cut because players disapproved. Thus it is a non argument and a non issue. The only argument this can give, is time to implement. (craft able precursor comes to mind)).

**Minor edit / addition / suggestion: Every single “additional option” should have a toggle. Mount’s toggle = on/off . (i think we already have mounts, but whatever). Same could be said for a lot of things, all the instruments, would love a toggle on those as well.

talk about setting up straw-men and knocking them down. can OP white knight any harder?

also, a lot of the points referring to “that other game” could actually refer to Guild Wars 1. you know, the supposed predecessor of this game, that already had gobs more content and complexity than this game after the same period of time.

As far as I understand it this is a list of the most common pros and cons that are brought up by many different players, and not just the OP.
Just because the OP made them look somewhat unbalanced doesn’t mean that the listed arguments are wrong.

Even though I don’t agree with some points I still think that it’s a good list and I respect the amount of effort put into it.

Gele.2048:

Gele.2048:

Revilrad.1962:

1. Mounts :
Not needed. WP System is the existing solution of going fast from place to place. Those who want mounts want just another tier of collectibles to get busy. Not a real use out of it.

2.Duelling : PvP in GW2 is built around teamwork and classes are optimized/nerfed/buffed around this system. Some classes are clearly superior to others and inferior to some. Duelling would be just frustrating.

3.Open World PvP : Reason for Trolling. Hate between players. Factions dont fit into current story of all against Elder Dragons.

4.Holy Trinity : Please no. 1 Step closer to generic MMO.

8 : DPS Meter. Inspect Gear. Inspect Gear is actuall a nice addition. DPS meter would just be one step closer to generic one best build/equipment approach. Destroys variabilty and forces everyone use the same build.

12. Player to Player Trading : Did you ever played Diablo 2? Reason for bans, hate frustrating and new chinese player explosion.

wow u are so d…. first of all people already are using the same build is called BERSERK ER gear second of all dueling is nice add u don’t have to duel if you are noob let the rest of us enjoy having fun in towns dueling for fun wasting time in this game and 3 there is reason why there is holy trinity you can create awesome content whit that mode inside your kittening game raids pvp dungeons right now we have shallow copy of and mmo staking and killing in dungeons not smart play no positioning no healing there is no support role there is no tank role there is no need its only DPS rush it always was that so adding that and the dps meter will only improve this game

you CAN always REFUSE DUEL in any MMO if u are not good or you dont enjoy it dont play it but I LIKE IT there is THING in option click it ALWAYS refuse DUEL so you can always play the same game why the kitten u are so afraid of OPTIONS you dont have to use it let the rest of us ENJOY this is so selfish so so so selfish

Wait… did you just get kittened off at yourself?

BTW, petulant much? And I won’t even go into the pot calling the kettle black.

I dont see the point of the holy trinity crap. GW2 has done an awsome job at removing the holy trinity but there are elements in the game that allow players to play those roles if they want to for instance eles are really good at buffing allies with might so I see it as a support buff (oh and they are useful because they dont just buff they can also assist in doing a crap load of damage so buff + dps why complain abt it) class and guardians n warriors are really tank depending on ur build so really the game has the holy trinity but not in the traditional sense.

Xovian.8572:

Semantics aside, people opposing many in the list simply are arguing against having more options in the game. There is simply no reason to not add content to the game.
Break every option to its base: Add content. Everything in the list I summed up with two words. And outside of hardware or software limitations, there is NEVER an excuse to not add content to a MMO game.

Disagree? Then name one GOOD reason (not listed below) why that is incorrect. Cause I’d honestly like to see it.

1. It ruins the game.
And that’s all I need? ’K.

Oh, oh, wait, I should elaborate.

Have you ever heard the phrase, “tacked-on”? How about “Afterthought”? “Pushed out the door”? “Doesn’t really belong”? “Distracts from the experience”? “Detracts from the experience”? It goes without saying that a shoddy addition is often less good than no addition at all.

But, let’s assume that ANet can at least produce some quality. So, ever hear the phrase, “Unintended consequence”? This one is the major one.

Let’s look at something that got added recently that only affects a few players. If they want to be involved. Maize Farming -I’m sure you heard of it. Use a consumable to generate free expensive loot from npcs that otherwise have little value to the average player. Innocuous, right?

Except now you have packs of these maize farmers setting up shop in various places dictating to other players that it is now “their spot,” and kitten you if you think you can do anything in that area that might somehow interfere with their means of ‘having fun’ (read: getting gold the easy way). You can’t work on weapon master with ‘their’ ambient critters. You can’t kill ‘their’ critters, not even by accident, without accusations of griefing. And you sure as kitten cannot get them to go somewhere else, not even if you were there first.

Let’s backtrack now to the dueling bit that I snipped.

You think dueling, an inherently aggressive activity, has no means of bleeding over into non-dueler play? GW1 was bad enough when you had PvP players screaming at PvE players because they didn’t play ‘their way’. All you’d need with this system is some dueler (or a pack thereof) needing his kitten stroked to monopolize some resource and demand people to fight him for it. Opportunities for this are limited, but they still exist, as I just demonstrated with maize farming.

Further there is the damage to the ambiance and community spirit of the game. Competitive play was separated from open world for this very reason. When you have to worry that you or a party member might get bushwhacked by some kitten who is dying to compare the size of his kitten, it makes most players leery about who they go near.

You have a very pure conception of these additions, not only in how they will be implemented, but in that they can be shoehorned in with zero ripple effects, that they cannot or will not be the cause of griefing, that they will have safeguards that will always work, that they will have no impact on game balance, and that there is no one gleefully wringing his hands over the prospect of inventively kittening over someone’s day with them. And opting in/out? There’s always ways around it, provided one can find a way to pressure someone else into giving in. This is why even the option must not exist.

Dear OP,
Can we add some topics regarding the LFG like

• Dungeon Selling
• Achievement Point Requirement

Also, I’m not too sure if Stacking vs. AOE cap has been already discussed.
Sincerely,

Sprinkle the feed to the forum bugs.

I will agree with one statement the OP made in his analysis.

“That other game has it; we’ve seen it done there and enjoyed it.”

I have always wondered about why people want to turn a game they are currently playing into one they left behind. If you left a game behind then it obviously lacked something that your new game has and whatever game element you left and now want in the new game was not a strong enough game element to keep you there.

Theftwind.8976:

I will agree with one statement the OP made in his analysis.

“That other game has it; we’ve seen it done there and enjoyed it.”

I have always wondered about why people want to turn a game they are currently playing into one they left behind. If you left a game behind then it obviously lacked something that your new game has and whatever game element you left and now want in the new game was not a strong enough game element to keep you there.

So, the previous MMO I played had some things (for want of better word) I really did enjoy. Do I think I can get some of those ideas into GW2? No, they’re fundamentally too different. Would I try if I think it would mesh? Hell yes! I didn’t leave my previous game because the positives were too weak compared to other games. I left because the negatives were starting to really overshadow the positives. That’s just my reason though, I’m sure other people have their various reasons for leaving their previous game/MMO.