Guild Wars 2

I thought they got to keep the finishers? That’s what I thought it said.

Also, y’all get a title. And stuff. More than us fractalers got.

But yeah, wiping progress is never an answer….

chemiclord.3978:

Listening =/= Do what we say.

Frankly, a majority of fan ideas are either 1) Terrible, 2) Poorly thought out, or 3) Both.

and 4) better than actually is on game

lostterran.7910:

First off, let me say, that Im playing GW2 since beta and I’m still enjoying the game.
But after all these changes you’ve done over the year I just wonder:
Is it to hard to listen to your players?

The only thing you really managed to arrange was the thing with flamekissed armor.
Examples?

-Scarlet Briar
-Players do not like the character
-Put her into a fractal

-Living Story overall
-Players scream for an expansion
-Do silly farming-maps which dissapear (without any explanation) after 2 weeks.

Well right now there was a post about the upcoming PvP-changes

People DONT WANT ranks to get removed
People WANT to be able to have legendarys, cultural armor etc. on PvP
but DONT WANT something like this weird crossover. PvP armor always was something special, just BECAUSE there was a different way to achieve it.

So, I just wonder why it seems to be so hard to listen to your players or request an opinion beforehand.

By the way I just try to imagine how kitten ed the people on rank 70+ are gonna be…
Goodybye Dragon Finisher

/discuss

Do you have any proof for any of your assertions? Because I could just as easily make this post saying the exact opposite.

Flamekissed armor wasn’t even a new skin it was just a rehash which is lame.

Everyone loves Scarlet, she should be in more.

People are completing the living story segments, so they must be well loved.

PVP as it was wasn’t working and was being mostly unused by most of the population so it needed a major change such as allowing PVPers to level characters and collect real gear from it.

Pretty sure I just posted the exact opposite with more proof than yours had. I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but you offer no proof or state your opinions as facts, which isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Funny, there is a plethora of posts complaining about ArenaNet listening to their playerbase, and acting accordingly. What’s a company to do?

lostterran.7910:

Well right now there was a post about the upcoming PvP-changes

People DONT WANT ranks to get removed
People WANT to be able to have legendarys, cultural armor etc. on PvP
but DONT WANT something like this weird crossover. PvP armor always was something special, just BECAUSE there was a different way to achieve it.

So, I just wonder why it seems to be so hard to listen to your players or request an opinion beforehand.

By the way I just try to imagine how kitten ed the people on rank 70+ are gonna be…
Goodybye Dragon Finisher

/discuss

You see, that’s what YOU want. Not everyone wants the same thing. I wanted a crossover between PvP and PvE because if I achieved something in one game mode, it feels like a chore doing it again in another one.

Come on guys, lets be reasonable, they are really doing their best right now.
→ accountbound wxp
→ gvg arena
→ edge of the mists
→ PvP revamp

First – I have to agree with chem that just because they listen does not mean they are going to do everything we ask. We are not the developers, they are. It is their game, the final decisions rest with them. They may take our feedback into consideration, but we do not dictate.

Second – They are kittened it they do, kittened if they don’t. If they go one way, section ‘a’ of the fanbase is kittened off. If they go the other way, section ‘b’ is kittened off. If they try going down the middle, section ‘c’ gets kittened off. They cannot please everyone, though they do seem to be trying to provide several options to keep multiple factions happy. Though, we seem to keep screaming that nothing they do is good enough. I’m sure that makes them feel so warm and fuzzy about their players. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they simply told us all to g-f-ourselves.

Finally – I, and many I know, would disagree with your example assessments. Considering the path Anet has opted to take, it would imply that the ‘majority’ does not in fact dislike Scarlet or the LS in general. However, neither of us has numbers to back up our arguments. It is purely conjecture at this point.

“Every prayer is answered. Sometimes the answer is ‘no.’”

chemiclord.3978:

Listening =/= Do what we say.

Frankly, a majority of fan ideas are either 1) Terrible, 2) Poorly thought out, or 3) Both.

And most of the time directly contradict each other. As soon as they make a change the players clamored for (like the Flamekissed armor), they get a bunch of angry people who didn’t like the change and want something else.

Reading these forums, it often seems like 90% of the posts are along the lines of “I quit playing this game because everything sucks and I just come here to complain about it.” I wouldn’t listen to those suggestions either.

Nightwolf.6052:

chemiclord.3978:

Listening =/= Do what we say.

Frankly, a majority of fan ideas are either 1) Terrible, 2) Poorly thought out, or 3) Both.

and 4) better than actually is on game

Examples being…

Okay, I approve with you…
My post wasnt really helpfull, but after all I mainly wanted to start a discussion.
By the way… if you want proof, you just need to look on the forums.
Its just filled with kittenstorms about Scarlet and the Story of the living world.
I didnt want to explain this any further, because this is in the General GW2 Discussion.
If i wanted to talk about Scarlet, I would have moved this thread into Living World Discussion. The same with the content of living story. So as i know from ingame chats and forum posts, its mainly played for farming the AP

But back to the topic

Now if you look on the opinions in the forum, you realise there isnt really a thrill of anticipation.
I dont want to say everbody hates Anet for what they do, but at least a huge amount of the player base is unsatisfied. Altough this is the case in every MMO, i just wondered why Anet are just doing their thing and revamp such a great part of the game.
I mean its literally a whole new setup.

And for the dragon finisher:

Quote:

Variants of existing rank finishers will move to the ladder system and will be used to show your current standings on the ladder from season to season. The original finishers will not be earnable again.

As far as i know, nobody achieved rank 80 (= dragon finisher) yet, and no one will be able after the changes.

I will be the first to say that I DO kittenING NOT want any more kittening dailies to try to do. As a top ~40 NA player, I really don’t want to spend EVEN MORE time doing dailies in PvP.

lostterran.7910:

Okay, I approve with you…
My post wasnt really helpfull, but after all I mainly wanted to start a discussion.
By the way… if you want proof, you just need to look on the forums.
Its just filled with kittenstorms about Scarlet and the Story of the living world.
I didnt want to explain this any further, because this is in the General GW2 Discussion.
If i wanted to talk about Scarlet, I would have moved this thread into Living World Discussion. The same with the content of living story. So as i know from ingame chats and forum posts, its mainly played for farming the AP

But back to the topic

Now if you look on the opinions in the forum, you realise there isnt really a thrill of anticipation.
I dont want to say everbody hates Anet for what they do, but at least a huge amount of the player base is unsatisfied. Altough this is the case in every MMO, i just wondered why Anet are just doing their thing and revamp such a great part of the game.
I mean its literally a whole new setup.

And for the dragon finisher:

Quote:

Variants of existing rank finishers will move to the ladder system and will be used to show your current standings on the ladder from season to season. The original finishers will not be earnable again.

As far as i know, nobody achieved rank 80 (= dragon finisher) yet, and no one will be able after the changes.

See now you have add some proof, but your proof has a fundamental flaw to it. Like all methods of communication with the creators of a product game forums are not a valid sample size of the opinion of the masses. Past studies have shown that a large percentage of the individuals that use such things are mainly disgruntled users, much less are happy customers.

Thus since the number of complaining users on this forums numbers in the hundreds and this game has sold and is being played by hundreds of thousands that would imply the number of individuals disgruntled enough to come complain on the forums rather than play the game is rather small. This has been shown to be even more true for computer games because why would someone who is enjoying the game stop doing so to go to the forums. So the only no unsatisfied customers on the forums tend to be those that are currently in a place where they are unable to play such as those of us currently at work.

The thing sboyt scarlet in the fractal is that she was put there in April when the election was finished. And by then we’ve just seen her for the first time… Thats how long time it takes for some things to make it into the game. I just red it earlier this day from one of the Devs…

chemiclord.3978:

Listening =/= Do what we say.

Frankly, a majority of fan ideas are either 1) Terrible, 2) Poorly thought out, or 3) Both.

This is pretty much dead on.

Hellmasker.1649:

I will be the first to say that I DO kittenING NOT want any more kittening dailies to try to do. As a top ~40 NA player, I really don’t want to spend EVEN MORE time doing dailies in PvP.

And I assume you are going to display some evidence that shows that it is required to do dailies??? What does being a “top 40” NA player have to do with dailies?

lostterran.7910:

First off, let me say, that Im playing GW2 since beta and I’m still enjoying the game.
But after all these changes you’ve done over the year I just wonder:
Is it to hard to listen to your players?

They have more then proven that they listen to players. Just because they do not listen to your horrible ideas as well does not mean they are not listening to you. It simply means they are using better judgement then you.

lostterran.7910:

The only thing you really managed to arrange was the thing with flamekissed armor.
Examples?

-Scarlet Briar
-Players do not like the character

And?
Players also do like her. The difference is, they do not make threads about it. Just because a vocal few suggest they dislike Scarlet doesn’t mean anything.

lostterran.7910:

-Living Story overall
-Players scream for an expansion
-Do silly farming-maps which dissapear (without any explanation) after 2 weeks.

I like the living story.
Players scream for an expansion out of habit. We do not need an expansion to get the equivalent of one. Everyone is to short sighted, and one track minded to understand that. Another perfect example of good judgement on Anets part. This is such a lame example. Player were making threads about an expansion the same month the game was released, and if they did make an expansion, players would be demanding another one the same week.

Well right now there was a post about the upcoming PvP-changes

lostterran.7910:

People DONT WANT ranks to get removed
People WANT to be able to have legendarys, cultural armor etc. on PvP
but DONT WANT something like this weird crossover. PvP armor always was something special, just BECAUSE there was a different way to achieve it.

Where have they stated they will not have legendaries and cultural armor in PvP, because that is what your attempting to imply.

lostterran.7910:

So, I just wonder why it seems to be so hard to listen to your players or request an opinion beforehand.

Again, you appear very confused. Just because they do not act on every single idea posted in the forums does not mean they do not listen. If anything, it is posters like you who dishonestly make such comments that will help deter them from wanting to take player ideas further.

In terms of Scarlet and the Living Story, I think WoodenPotatoes made a good point.

The Living Story and Scarlet are simply a testing ground.

I mean, imagine the backlash if established GW lore was used with the poor implementation. Heck, enough people complained about the Personal Story.

As for listening to the playerbase, we’re going to be at odds as to what should and shouldn’t be in the game, so whatever happens, one party isn’t going to be ‘listened’ to anyway, and odds are the ones who are OK with a change are less likely to post than those who show dissatisfaction with a change. Just take a look at the duelling and mount suggestion threads.

I never said i dislike the Living Story.
Since now I have played every little part of it and enjoyed it.
For the expansion:
There are more than one reason why it would also benefit Anet. I would request you to watch the video of WoodenPotatoe. Afterall this isnt what I meant to discuss.

My point is, that Arenanet needs to face reluctance so often, but still do not really seem to care. They even made the attempt with the Collaborative Development Thread, but if you are honest it didnt really worked out.

Now that I see that some of you seem to be offened by what ever reason, we maybe can close this discussion. After all it maybe was my own mistake because I verbalized my thoughts to poorly.

Nightwolf.6052:

chemiclord.3978:

Listening =/= Do what we say.

Frankly, a majority of fan ideas are either 1) Terrible, 2) Poorly thought out, or 3) Both.

and 4) better than actually is on game

Um… …no. I for the most part, I really enjoy the ideas they have. I wish there was a lot more lore things from GW1, but that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy the current stuff. so “better than actually is on game” is just an opinion not a fact.

To the OP, people can complain about Scarlet and other things all they want but there are many who like Scarlet and her story and game content was completed way before it was released. They are not going to halt months of progress because some people may not like it. That would be financially idiotic for them.

Also, as some have said above, they do listen to their players. No matter what they do there will be those who like what they do and those that hate it. They will never please everyone. Ever. So listening isn’t just listening to those who complain, it is also listening to those that enjoy what they do.

Add to that they have implemented the CDI for us. How many companies do that? Not many. I think they are doing a great job.

After more than a year we still don’t have official GvG mode or guild halls, or basic guild management tools. Players have been asking this since the launch and earlier.

gaspara.4079:

See now you have add some proof, but your proof has a fundamental flaw to it. Like all methods of communication with the creators of a product game forums are not a valid sample size of the opinion of the masses. Past studies have shown that a large percentage of the individuals that use such things are mainly disgruntled users, much less are happy customers.

THIS. If 50 people go to a restaurant, and 10 of them have a negative experience, probably 9 of them will complain about it. The 40 people that thought the restaurant was just fine? Maybe 5 of them mention it. People are more likely to complain about a negative than praise a positive.

Furthermore – and I know this will come as a shock – a lot of those complainers are lying. Here’s a story: I know a lot of people in the games industry. One of them got curious about the people saying things like “I haven’t played [Game Name] in [X time] because it’s dead/sucks/broken/unbalanced/etc.” He went and checked the data on every user he saw that said they weren’t playing.

Every single one was logging in regularly.

Nick.6972:

After more than a year we still don’t have official GvG mode or guild halls, or basic guild management tools. Players have been asking this since the launch and earlier.

Personally i feel guild halls are a waste of time and space, as do very very many players. Just because some players ask for it doesn’t mean it is desired as a time investment by the entire community. Players have asked for all kinds of things since launch, that doesn’t mean most of us want them to waste resources on them because of the occasion thread of very few of the over all player base asking for it.

As for GvG, they are clearly working on it, so I do not understand why so many posters use it as a negative argument. I wish they would drop what they have done on GvG and announce that they will not implement it just because of comments like this, when you know good and well they are working on it, while giving you a temporary fix until it roles out.

Guild management tools, now this is a good quality of life benefit that would effect a majority of the player base beneficially as far as I can see.

coglin.1867:

Personally i feel guild halls are a waste of time and space, as do very very many players. Just because some players ask for it doesn’t mean it is desired as a time investment by the entire community. Players have asked for all kinds of things since launch, that doesn’t mean most of us want them to waste resources on them because of the occasion thread of very few of the over all player base asking for it.

Well, I don’t think that anyone can speak as to how many players want this or that. Although you try to imply by your wording that only a small number of people want guild halls and the vast majority do not, you really have no idea how many do, do not, or don’t care about guild halls.

What I know from the people that I play with and know, guildies and not, most want guild halls. I know this isn’t true for all sectors of GW2, but in my circle it is.

So when you say that “Just because some players ask for it doesn’t mean it is desired as a time investment by the entire community.” you truly don’t know if halls are desired by the majority of the entire community or not just as you do not know that it is only “some” players asking for them.

Correct, I do not know. That was my point. Because neither does he. Unlike him though, I do not attempt to suggest I am speaking for the community. Which is what I felt he was attempting to do, thus I made a counter argument based on the same limitation.

lostterran.7910:

First off, let me say, that Im playing GW2 since beta and I’m still enjoying the game.
But after all these changes you’ve done over the year I just wonder:
Is it to hard to listen to your players?

The only thing you really managed to arrange was the thing with flamekissed armor.
Examples?

-Scarlet Briar
-Players do not like the character
-Put her into a fractal

-Living Story overall
-Players scream for an expansion
-Do silly farming-maps which dissapear (without any explanation) after 2 weeks.

Well right now there was a post about the upcoming PvP-changes

People DONT WANT ranks to get removed
People WANT to be able to have legendarys, cultural armor etc. on PvP
but DONT WANT something like this weird crossover. PvP armor always was something special, just BECAUSE there was a different way to achieve it.

So, I just wonder why it seems to be so hard to listen to your players or request an opinion beforehand.

By the way I just try to imagine how kitten ed the people on rank 70+ are gonna be…
Goodybye Dragon Finisher

/discuss

Just addressing the pvp part of your post, i disagree i think this is the first time anet is actually listening all the upcoming changes have been requested by majority of the community in one way or another.

Anet is one of the few dev teams that DO listen to their community. In fact i tend to brag about it when talking to my friends who play other MMOs.

Look at this tweet from Holinka (lead pvp dev for wow) for example:

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/408056091822395393

0 communication from Blizzard devs on the the forums and 0 Feedback moments…

I think Anet does an amazing job compared to that. And no they arent perfect and no they whont listen to everything you come up with. But im 100% certain these guys are working their kitten off to make this an enjoyable experience for us.

chemiclord.3978:

Listening =/= Do what we say.

Frankly, a majority of fan ideas are either 1) Terrible, 2) Poorly thought out, or 3) Both.

Can’t agree more with this quote.

For OP’s made up numbers:

I’m one of the people who actually like the concept of living story (even if it still needs some polishing). In most games new content only lasts for so long until its abandoned, but here content is just “flushed” when it becomes old.

I’m one of the people who like Scarlet, even though I do admit her introduction has been way too slow.

I definitely appreciate the changes on magic find and improved rewards. Those were changes that made me come back.

I’d appreciate the addition of guild halls and better guild tools, which have been asked since the beginning. Also, not being able to search by armor type (light, medium, heavy) on the trading post is an unfortunate overlook.

I wish they could have worked on these things before spending a lot of time and resources in this crazy 2-week rotation of new and disposable content (2 weeks is too quick for things to just disappear, and I’d like to see an expansion).

Amon.5042:

not being able to search by armor type (light, medium, heavy) on the trading post is an unfortunate overlook.

I almost forget about this. Glad you mentioned it. This is something, that I honestly cannot understand what it wasnt there at release.

There are three things.

1. What people think they want.
2. What people actually want.
3. What people actually need.

It is extremely rare that all three of these are the same thing.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Funny, there is a plethora of posts complaining about ArenaNet listening to their playerbase, and acting accordingly. What’s a company to do?

That’s actually quite simple. Every company needs to listen to their customers. They are your customers and without them you will have no company. Does that mean you do everything every customer suggests? No. You evaluate all feedback, consider the products DNA (read manifesto here—the reason the product exists), and make the decision that produces the highest value while not violating the products DNA. Every customer-facing software company knows this and does it. (In fact, internal groups within a company do this as well.) But, a company either does it well or poorly. When you have a lot of customer questions, as in this OP, it means you are not doing it well. And, the end result of the process is the responsibility of the company, not the customer.

Raine.1394:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Funny, there is a plethora of posts complaining about ArenaNet listening to their playerbase, and acting accordingly. What’s a company to do?

That’s actually quite simple. Every company needs to listen to their customers. They are your customers and without them you will have no company. Does that mean you do everything every customer suggests? No. You evaluate all feedback, consider the products DNA (read manifesto here—the reason the product exists), and make the decision that produces the highest value while not violating the products DNA. Every customer-facing software company knows this and does it. (In fact, internal groups within a company do this as well.) But, a company either does it well or poorly. When you have a lot of customer questions, as in this OP, it means you are not doing it well. And, the end result of the process is the responsibility of the company, not the customer.

Lol. It was a rhetorical question. But, thanks for the feedback/info. =)