Guild Wars 2

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

The Heart of the Mists game need to get reviewed and classified over MOBA website.

So, we can expose our game to a player base of 200 millions of people compare to the MMORPG crowd of the 20 millions.

Like MOBA they could open free classes/specialization over week basics than you can pay to unlock them with gem/gold.

But, I guess it’s their initial idea and that the MMORPG players are simply into a glorified Early Access (pay to play BETA).

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

Are you talking about Paragon?

I wish they would at least split the price. A PvE pack and a PvP pack.

Because while I really dislike PvE in GW2, I love PvP. But I’m not spending $50 to play half the game, because it’s the only side I like. Haven’t touched HoT because of that.

Well, seeing as this thread is still actively being moderated, and I’ve already made a suggestion last year that would fix this current meta, I may as well self bump. I need the hit.

There’s little else to discuss on this forum, other than play agony aunt for people who die to thieves.

Of course it does. And it baffles my mind why Anet hasn’t done this a long time ago.

Now with the game free-to-play we NEED PVP monetarization. For example, do what all the MOBAs do, and rotate 2 free elite specs for free-to-play players on a weekly basis, and enable them to buy and unlock elite specs forever.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Of course it does. And it baffles my mind why Anet hasn’t done this a long time ago.

Now with the game free-to-play we NEED PVP monetarization. For example, do what all the MOBAs do, and rotate 2 free elite specs for free-to-play players on a weekly basis, and enable them to buy and unlock elite specs forever.

Yes this is certainly an option. It also wouldn’t be unreasonable to leave Revenant as a HoT exclusive, as it’s not going to prevent players from competing.

I am all for more armor skins, costumes and UI fluff.

Credit to Shinjiko.1352 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/UI-fluff/first#post5516134 some of the cool UI fluff for Thief.

I support this.

I support this too.

+1 well said, don’t forget to send in your consulting fee

great idea, +1 and /15 reapers

Chapell.1346:

Credit to Shinjiko.1352 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/UI-fluff/first#post5516134 some of the cool UI fluff for Thief.

I think any premium UI or skill effect customisation (like changing the colour of guardian ‘fire’ skills) that doesn’t provide an advantage over their default settings, is a great idea.

There would need to be a disable feature for custom arenas, but aside from that +1!

Phaeton.9582:

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

Are you talking about Paragon?

Paragon or Overwatch or Gigantic or many others… NEXT GEN MOBA incoming. ANET need to do it before them.

Jourdelune.7456:

Phaeton.9582:

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

Are you talking about Paragon?

Paragon or Overwatch or Gigantic or many others… NEXT GEN MOBA incoming. ANET need to do it before them.

Paragon and Gigantic do look good. Not had a chance on the betas yet though.

Overwatch looks less directly relatable to sPvP, but it’s blizzard so no doubt they’ll make it work.

There seems to be a ton of threads now about if GW2 is P2W, and it’s clearly not.

This game is however Pay to Compete, and there’s a very hefty price just to level the playing field.

The issues discussed above just highlight how such a model is turning away prospective sPvP players every day.

Phaeton.9582:

There seems to be a ton of threads now about if GW2 is P2W, and it’s clearly not.

This game is however Pay to Compete, and there’s a very hefty price just to level the playing field.

The issues discussed above just highlight how such a model is turning away prospective sPvP players every day.

Agreed with you.

Having a smaller download, a PR campaign into the MOBA preview game site (so many these dayz), 1 or 2 publicity about HoTM MOBA games over Google/Youtube…

With a real f2p MOBA model (only for spvp or your MOBA game) that is compatible with your MMO b2p model, so some MOBA player can B2P the MMORPG version of it, would probably x10 our pvp population.

This would bring better match making system. And the competitive field would be better because we market to competitive pvp players (from the MOBA scene).

I don’t know why other sPVPer don’t subscribe more to your thread…

Guess they hate their own game too much to ask for EXPANSIONS of the PLAYER BASE.

HF,
Dal

In competitive sPvP however it isn’t possible to have fun on classic specs, chiefly due to balance

One could argue that if you’re serious about something (like trying to be competitive) you should be able to spend $50 on it.

What are you guys whining about? Are you all 14 and your parents aren’t giving you enough allowance or are you older and just too cheap to spend $50 on a game you seemingly play all the time?

Sometimes I just don’t get “e-athletes” …

I completely support this, some of my friends that loved the PvP when the f2p model was launched, they just left because they couldn’t compete against elite (and can’t pay the full price).

So imo ANet should unlock the Elite Specs with some kind of currency, for example:
- One of my friends plays mesmer and he wants to use Chronomancer, he should earn 200 of x currency in order to unlock it for PvP-Only and that x currency can be earned by doing Unranked Matches or something.

Please ANet consider this, this might be your biggest sell point

edit: This elite will only be available on PvP.

biczkowski.2961:

In competitive sPvP however it isn’t possible to have fun on classic specs, chiefly due to balance

One could argue that if you’re serious about something (like trying to be competitive) you should be able to spend $50 on it.

What are you guys whining about? Are you all 14 and your parents aren’t giving you enough allowance or are you older and just too cheap to spend $50 on a game you seemingly play all the time?

Sometimes I just don’t get “e-athletes” …

This. If all you F2P players want to play competitive then buy the expansion. $50 isn’t that much

Once again people are comparing 2 different genres and don’t understand how terrible a moba based business model would be for an mmo.

This is a MMO, not a standalone moba…..guild wars 2 is not a free to play game, Arena NET just uses that term for their extended trial to pull people in to try the game.

You want access to all the content, you pay for the expansion, simple as that. Arena Net would lose more customers if they split their MMO into 2 products.

Sorry to break it to you most people who play MMOS engage in more than 1 aspect of the game, they want to pay a standard price for EVERYTHING.

Spvp is the lowest populated game mode for a reason and it has nothing to do with Arena Net’s business model which is very good for a buy to play game.

Buy to play game, get that in your heads, stop with “pay to win” it’s silly, like the game? buy it. This is not some crappy free to play asian mmo, it’s a normal western mmo without a subscription. Buy to play.

@ itztheremix

I’d say if you wan’t all players who try the game, feel like there is no balance and push them away and thus don’t get 50$ it’s the best way you have to do it.

(btw I played core and hot) I just apreciate having build diversity. Esport F2P games (not only MOBA games) have shown they have a successful business simply by selling cosmetics and unlocking some QoL features.

Even if you have to pay a extention to unlock content (and thats fine) there is no reason making extention character stronger it only takes down build diversity , the ability to enjoy more than one gameplay on the same profession.

If making HOT characters stonger was the point they could have given 300 raw stats to every attribute and say pay HOT or your left behind . Fun comes when every thing you played yesterday will remain as difficult tomorow , no matter what the changes are trivialising content because they made a new xpac is just not a smart move.

Jourdelune.7456:

Phaeton.9582:

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

Are you talking about Paragon?

Paragon or Overwatch or Gigantic or many others… NEXT GEN MOBA incoming. ANET need to do it before them.

overwatch will be buy to play….most new games coming out are using buy to play business models…..FYI

You do realize that GW2 has no F2P model right?

It’s Play for Free as in: Test out the game and if you like it – buy it.

Elite Specializations are a big selling point of HoT so you obviously don’t get them for free.

Splitting the game up would basically result in twice the maintainance work.

And if you really want F2P it would result in a highly modified gemstore.

- No more Gold/Gem Conversion
- Elite Specs for 8.99$/ea
- Skins, Boosts, Tickets
- Queue Priviledges
- …

With that kind of model it would be Free2Play+Pay2Win.
Now it’s try for free and Buy2Play.

I prefer the latter.

Let’s be clear if you want Elite Specs “for free” they would be placed behind a huge grind + added in the store in some way.

Do you think Riot Games is making tons of money from people just playing the game and never buying anything?

“Because while I really dislike PvE in GW2, I love PvP. But I’m not spending $50 to play half the game, because it’s the only side I like. Haven’t touched HoT because of that.”

People buy Battlefield, Call of Duty and others solely for PvP. Those games got PvE (Storymode), cost 70-100$ and their download size isn’t any less.

Masses love their DLC’s and spending 3 times the money over months/years instead of a transparent set value.

My unwanted advice would be:

If you want to play the game in a “serious” way for hundreds of hours 50 bucks is nothing.
If you don’t have 50 bucks for it play with your Free Account till it’s getting cheaper. (Seen it many times for 30-40$ at trusted resellers)

and please:

Think about the consequences your ideas would have and their impact.
Sure lots of, for you, positive things but always ask yourself: Why shouldn’t this happen?

Sassy.1697:

Masses love their DLC’s and spending 3 times the money over months/years instead of a transparent set value.

Then why not give them what they want?

We’ve bought the game and played it for years. We know it’s worth the money, but this isn’t about us.

This is about convincing your mate to spend $50 just so his engineer can use scrapper traits.

This is about the further complication of competitive sPvP having no effective “free to trial” component. Unless you mean trialling the respawn timer.

I support this too

+8675309 ………

Uh, speaking of business models, I don’t think pvp makes Anet/NCS any money.

and as long as that’s true, there will continue to be no balance team

Dumbest thread I have ever. It’s full of GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME and I DON’T CARE WHAT IT’LL COST YOU.. I bet the Op is a thrift spender if not a woman (yup I said it). Just to emphasize what everyone has touched upon. GW2 IS A MMO NOT A MOBA.If tou don’t want to spend 50 buck to support the games and the devs, fine just don’t complain.

No hope for this games balance, they should just start working on gw3 and focus on it exclusively being an esports worthy pvp game.

1) To be competitive you should put 50$.
This argument is not valid. This means, that to be competitive you are Pay to Win. You don’t like the conotation of it? We are not speaking about you, nor general MMORPG players here.
We are talking about going into a market ten times bigger that still grow that have a clear understanding that what mean PAY to WIN your game.

2) Gw2 is not a MOBA.
False, sPvP is clearly an arena where skills matter more than grinds. Go back to PVE or WvW, this is the PVP forum, where players play in a multiplayer online battle arena game.

3) sPvP don’t make Anet money.
Really bad thinking. sPVP catter to MOBA players. People coming from gw1 (from the most successfull game mode, MOBA – Arena pvp) or other MOBA, paid Gw2 with real money. Even, some of them start playing a MMORGP for the first
time. So sPvP is a growing vector of PVE and WvW because it take people from another game genre and convert it to MMORPG.

4) Give me, give me, give me…
Sorry, this argument is invalid. Actually, you can PVE with a vanilla FREE to PLAY account without much consequences till the end.
For sPvP a game mode that give the same chances for day 1 for all, is the only game mode that need to get a 50$ to play on equals feet with other players.

5) Game balance is bork, sPvP don’t worth more work.
Well… go back to PVE and stop coming here trash talking Anet great work for sPVP. We have the best action RPG MOBA game right there, and you guyz want it DEAD?
sPvP matchmaking need a large pool of players. One of the biggest break to sPvP growth is our F2P guyz stop playing after a week because to get really into it, you need to pay 50$ for it.

Those same people think it’s not worth it because they can play Heroes of the Storm, Lol, Smite or Dota 2 for free and be competitive.

Without large pool of players and new growth, our competitive scene will shrink too much to be viable.

6) Think about the consequences your ideas would have and their impact.
Bringing the sPvP community x10 stronger. Giving PVE and WvW new people that will someday pay the money for the full game and not just sPVP. Because they are hook to the combat mecanic of that said game.

Giving more visibility into MOBA communities, so our twitch assistance growth x10 what it is now because the game is present falsely like a MMORPG when really, sPVP is a MOBA.

reikken.4961:

Uh, speaking of business models, I don’t think pvp makes Anet/NCS any money.

and as long as that’s true, there will continue to be no balance team

Why do you think we’re discussing options :p

It’s turning something really just there for overall player retention, into a route to market for the wider game.

To do ranked you have to be PvP rank 20. You’ve had your free trial. Either pony up for the expansion of make the core specs work. You can get to legendary with a core build, there’s been posts of it being done if you have the skill. If you don’t have the skill, like me, HoT isn’t going to help you either way.

It’s $40 USD. fair dinkum, don’t be so cheap. The game is worth that easy and Anet deserves the money.

I fully support OP. As for income, maybe create skill skins. I know i’d pay for that.

I like moba games and started playing GW2 sPvP when the game became F2P. I also found the PvE part enjoyable and bought HOT so I would say that sPvP does make money for anet and they maybe could uset it to draw more ppl to the game.

PvE and PvP are already quite separated but maybe they could be saparated even more. I think you should be able to make a character you can play only in PvP and that you could change the profession at will without creating a new character.

You would still be able to play normal PvE characters in PvP but having a dedicated PvP character allows you to play more classes. Now you are Limited By account slots and while in theory you can dedicate one slot solely for PvP it is still inconcenient to delete it and make a new one when you want to play another class.

This would work well with a new sPvP bussines model. All anet has to do is to make a PvP character slot that can change profession. F2P players could change between the core specs and you could rotate preview elite specs in a weekly basis and have an option to buy elite specs for PvP use only.

And while in this way F2P players could be compeitive, they wouldn’t have any fancy skins and to get skins they would have to play PvE or buy gems. And we all know that MOBA players can resist buying skins.

And I like how ppl agree that sPvP is pretty much a moba and that anet should embrace this more.

Blue Hare.8612:

I like moba games and started playing GW2 sPvP when the game became F2P. I also found the PvE part enjoyable and bought HOT so I would say that sPvP does make money for anet and they maybe could uset it to draw more ppl to the game.

…

And I like how ppl agree that sPvP is pretty much a moba and that anet should embrace this more.

Thank you Blue Hare. Your testimony is important to let MMORPG players know the truth… MOBA is 10x stronger than MMORPG and it’s still growing.

http://www.geek.com/games/the-10-most-streamed-video-games-1646668/

7 Dayz of streams:

Here are the top 10 streamed games from February 1 to 7:

League of Legends (22,703,372 hours watched)
Dota 2 (9,688,853 hours)
Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft (8,813,318 hours)
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (8,437,020 hours)
Call of Duty: Black Ops III (5,262,717 hours)
XCOM2 (2,777,702 hours)
Minecraft (2,238,235 hours)
Gaming Talk Shows* (1,962,004 hours)
H1Z1 (1,766,414 hours)
World of Warcraft (1,636,759 hours)

27 MILLIONS of HOURS in a week of streaming for LOL. more than x10 the hours of WoW the most successful MMORPG of all time.

Twitch is giving so much money to those streamers… why not for Gw2???

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/November_2011/2011_11_17_lol_numbers/riot_lol_infographic_full.jpg

5 YEARS AGO.

http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20140711/1322/league-players-reach-new-heights-2014

2 YEARS Akitten

, so now… let’s make US like we ARE. LOOSERS with TOXIC attitude…

Gw2 is not a MOBA. We can’t have those numbers with balanced patch and stuff… bla bla bla all the kitten around.

Selling The Hearth of The Mist on the MOBA market for F2P with same kind of business model of LOL, even if it failed… can bring more than thousands of competitive players to SPVP.

This can snowball the twicth users… from not even 5k to something like 100k per week? This is not even 5% of LOL streaming numbers.

Let say we have 10k more competitive players… do you still think that Gw2 sPvP is dying? This would be 10x the numbers of competitive players we got selling sPVP like a MMORPG.

Even a failed attempt (having less than 5% of the MOBA market) would a 10x better success than what we got actually.

We have the combat system. We have the competitive scene. We have a great game that need to get MARKET like a MOBA (spvp is a MOBA game) to get successful.

SPVP is not a part time, mini games for the MMORPG crowd. SPVP should be the entry for MOBA players to become MMORPG players… bringing x10 numbers than what we have so far.

Dal

Almost 10k games put into sPVP.

nah, game (or esports of this game) is dead.
Whatever anet do with gw2 at this point, none will work. Quite 99% sure of it.

Maybe gw3 with your business model would work very well tho. but for gw2 i don’t see any esports drama future.

Jourdelune.7456:

Blue Hare.8612:

I like moba games and started playing GW2 sPvP when the game became F2P. I also found the PvE part enjoyable and bought HOT so I would say that sPvP does make money for anet and they maybe could uset it to draw more ppl to the game.

…

And I like how ppl agree that sPvP is pretty much a moba and that anet should embrace this more.

Thank you Blue Hare. Your testimony is important to let MMORPG players know the truth… MOBA is 10x stronger than MMORPG and it’s still growing.

http://www.geek.com/games/the-10-most-streamed-video-games-1646668/

7 Dayz of streams:

Here are the top 10 streamed games from February 1 to 7:

League of Legends (22,703,372 hours watched)
Dota 2 (9,688,853 hours)
Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft (8,813,318 hours)
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive (8,437,020 hours)
Call of Duty: Black Ops III (5,262,717 hours)
XCOM2 (2,777,702 hours)
Minecraft (2,238,235 hours)
Gaming Talk Shows* (1,962,004 hours)
H1Z1 (1,766,414 hours)
World of Warcraft (1,636,759 hours)

27 MILLIONS of HOURS in a week of streaming for LOL. more than x10 the hours of WoW the most successful MMORPG of all time.

Twitch is giving so much money to those streamers… why not for Gw2???

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/November_2011/2011_11_17_lol_numbers/riot_lol_infographic_full.jpg

5 YEARS AGO.

http://www.riotgames.com/articles/20140711/1322/league-players-reach-new-heights-2014

2 YEARS Akitten, so now… let’s make US like we ARE. LOOSERS with TOXIC attitude…

Gw2 is not a MOBA. We can’t have those numbers with balanced patch and stuff… bla bla bla all the kitten around.

Selling The Hearth of The Mist on the MOBA market for F2P with same kind of business model of LOL, even if it failed… can bring more than thousands of competitive players to SPVP.

This can snowball the twicth users… from not even 5k to something like 100k per week? This is not even 5% of LOL streaming numbers.

Let say we have 10k more competitive players… do you still think that Gw2 sPvP is dying? This would be 10x the numbers of competitive players we got selling sPVP like a MMORPG.

Even a failed attempt (having less than 5% of the MOBA market) would a 10x better success than what we got actually.

We have the combat system. We have the competitive scene. We have a great game that need to get MARKET like a MOBA (spvp is a MOBA game) to get successful.

SPVP is not a part time, mini games for the MMORPG crowd. SPVP should be the entry for MOBA players to become MMORPG players… bringing x10 numbers than what we have so far.

Dal

Almost 10k games put into sPVP.

The moba market stopped growing over a year ago and the viewer numbers in general are slowly dropping across twitch.

The buisness model of lol is complete garbage for new players, only smite and dota2 are actually fair with their f2p model if you want to be competitiv.

I always +1 common sense. However this is only the first step, the rest of the steps contain fixing the bugs, toning down the elite specs with the rest of the game, and most importantly balancing SPvP as a stand alone game mode. The second they balance wvw, pve, and spvp as separate game types, only then will there be a chance. However I feel it’s personally too late for gw2. They ignored the community for far too long and this is the result.

Countless

Miellyn.6847:

… snip …
The moba market stopped growing over a year ago and the viewer numbers in general are slowly dropping across twitch.

The buisness model of lol is complete garbage for new players, only smite and dota2 are actually fair with their f2p model if you want to be competitiv.

I understand where you come from, but it’s false.

Lol is still stable (same number of players from the last year) but new MAJOR MOBA are out. Heroes of the Storm being a new thing on the MOBA market, Dota2 still growing. Moba > Lol. Yes the old LOL stop growing, but the new MOBA generations are incoming.

Twitch will move, but into the MOBA player based or with it. New MOBA out, will mean horizontal movement, not regression or stagnation.

The new Blizzard Overwatch is another MOBA that will grow the market of MOBA players.

Street Fighter V is great. They polish their leaderboard and Match Making system. This is another kind of game (battle or figthing game) that bring more people into the MOBA genre.

Remember Ultima Online? I was in there… Everquest, Asheron Call, Dark age of Camelot, … all those titles was stopping Ultima growth but it got Strong and Stable for long.

Even when WoW came out, the market was still growing, but Ultima declining.

MOBA are the next gen online platform. It is for CORE audience while MMORPG for hardcore one (no life player doing 40 hours + a week). The CORE audience is the growing vector of MOBA. sPVP in Gw2 is a MOBA…. so let’s GROW Gw2 together???

Please continue to sign up and +1 OP.

Dal

+1

add to this more than just 1 elite spec.

Fully agree with everything the OP has said. Though I do have to say that marketing is only half the battle. The other half is keeping players in the game and this is the biggest problem I have seen with Guild Wars 2. This problem began to grow post the 6/23/2015 condition stacking patch and got worse after HoT was released. What did the patch/expansion do that began to drive even veteran players away from a game they used to enjoy?

• Pre 6/23/2015, GW2 had finally reached an acceptable level of balance in player vs. player. People enjoyed the “feel” of conquest during the era of the cele/rifle engi, dd cele ele and all other viable builds in play. When the big condi/specialization patch hit, three years of working on a balance for a given game model was turned upside down. Three years of working on balancing the trait system, condis with the old system and the given dynamic in pvp was thrown out the window. Specializations and conditions stacking changed everything. This essentially reverted GW2’s evolution of balance back to year one. I had many friends leave and never come back after the 6/23/2015 patch. Point being: People do not like changes that sour up a game’s working balance. If big changes are to be made, they need to be well tested first and if they end up being sour, they need to be tended to and fixed immediately, not a year down the road.
• HoT was then released on top of the above problem. There was little to no time or effort taken to polish out the 6/23/2015 patch first before an ill tested HoT laid on top of it, forming now complex balance issues. The first week or two of HoT, everyone was excited. Then they figured out that balance/options/viability between build structures in pvp was, broken, slim and virtually non existant but what was mostly disappointing is that even with the new content, the game was actually less fun to play. A game that once felt bolded, underlined and italicized was beginning to feel like a child’s first attempt at writing cursive. Many players who stuck around even after the 6/23/2015 patch had began telling me “I’ve had enough of this”. Once again, many friends left a couple weeks in to the HoT patch, never to return to GW2. Point being: People do not like changes that sour up a game’s working balance. If big changes are to be made, they need to be well tested first and if they end up being sour, they need to be tended to and fixed immediately, not a year down the road.

The OP’s suggestions are sound but the Arena-Net staff actually needs to be focusing a lot less on general marketing and much more on the frequency and quality of their game patching efforts. Otherwise, players won’t be staying long enough to buy gems anyway.

~ It’s also important to add that time spent fine tuning a game is equivalent to marketing scheme tactics in terms of revenue. Word of mouth is strong commercialism and if a game’s engine is well polished, everyone says: “This is great! buy it and play it with me!” but when a game’s engine is failing, things go silent and people walk away. Arena-Net could kill two birds with one stone if they would simply take the time to fix Guild Wars 2

Phaeton.9582:

It must sound cringeworthy when people on your community forum try to talk shop. I can’t pretend to appreciate the many factors that go into these decisions, as I’m sure we as outsiders aren’t privy to most of them. All the same here’s my bit.

There are 2 things I’d like to see, as will be elaborated on below.

• Elite specs in sPvP made accessible to the F2P community.

• A ‘light’ version of the client stripped down just to the sPvP element.

---

Let’s look at how you’re attracting exclusivly ‘competitive’ players to spvp

The download is free. Presumably players are then expected to play ‘classic’ specs, and if they like the game enough they will purchase the expansion. Arenanet have been very vocal about their confidence, both in the b2p model and in their wider game, in this being an effective route to market.

In competitive sPvP however it isn’t possible to have fun on classic specs, chiefly due to balance

That’s an immediate turn off to these kind of players. As far as balance is concerned, this feeling in unequivocal across the board, so there’s no need to discuss it further here.

It’s a pretty glaring problem. It also puts you in a dilemma; will improving the initial player experience by rebalancing elite specs deincentivise their purchase of HoT? Let’s face it – even now most of it’s content lies outside of the Mists, no matter how tantelising Mr. Tibbles may appear to some.

There is only one clear way to break this dilemma, and that is for Conquest sPvP to fully embrace a f2p model.

• Competitive games do f2p better than everything else

• The infrastructure is now fully in place – it just needs to be signed off

• Marketing could do a lot with this news also

---

The second suggestion would be to allow the download of a stripped down version of the Client.

• This allows players quicker access to sPvP exclusively should they decide to try it out.

• It also makes it clear that sPvP is a game in its own right prior to download.

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Thought I’d get this all in before the post-balance ‘dark’ period for devs on the forums.

Do you realize that professions and “roles” are not good enough to sustain spvp and wvw?

Do you realize that spvp is a shallow and one dimensional game mode that offers no substantial rewards?

Do you realize that lack of having gear incentive actually hurts this mode and could be better if they had matchmaking based off of gear tier that are restricted by actual spvp expirience levels?

Do you realize that all this is designed that way to give players incentive to buy the game?

Do you realize that a stand alone spvp experience cannot be sustained on its own?

It’s really frustrating to see all these ideas about increasing pvp and wvw populations and interest when the main things are that professions are an awful mess and have been neglected since launch, and rewards are atrocious. How about they revamp their subpar professions first, make fully formed roles, tackle some poor combat mechanics and give some good rewards.

Offer a separation for matches between paid and free players… How about the players who paid for the game are able to earn specialized looking pvp gear and skins in spvp and wvw that can be used in pve as well… How about offering better game modes besides bunker the circle, and cut out stuff like stronghold… How about supporting guild vs guild and having 10v10, 20v20, 30v30… death match modes on differ types of interesting maps without all the pve stuff…

Free is not good, it’s just an easy way to open the door. Both ncsoft and anet know that the conversion rates from f2p to b2p are low, as stated in the last ncsoft conference call. I’m assuming that gem store purchases from free players are low as well.

Also, quality of professions and things mentioned above will build quantity and interest… Anything less will just keep these pvp modes low quality and low quantity and low interest as they have been.

The huge gaming world of pve and pvp players won’t take gw2 seriously until anet takes things more seriously and reinvests in their game.

Jourdelune.7456:

This! +1

Smite like game are coming to the market in 2016. They claimed next gen MOBA gaming where action skill-based gaming (dodge mechanic) are shown into a third person view.

The Heart of the Mists game need to get reviewed and classified over MOBA website.

So, we can expose our game to a player base of 200 millions of people compare to the MMORPG crowd of the 20 millions.

Like MOBA they could open free classes/specialization over week basics than you can pay to unlock them with gem/gold.

But, I guess it’s their initial idea and that the MMORPG players are simply into a glorified Early Access (pay to play BETA).

Umm this game is not a moba so get that market out of your brain for gw2.

Yeah, let’s market a stand alone pvp “room” in an mmo with 9 subpar professions and hope it can take a chunk of the mmo and moba markets…

If you want a monitized moba then go play “master X master” when ncsoft releases it.

To be honest, gw2 will never be able to come back, even tho it has perfect balance system.

The biggest reason is “the time that anet rekt their game” was too miraculous in terms of the release of Blade and Soul.

Many people already moved to that game so it become 3x harder for anet to recover its past glory. And soon even Overwatch by Blizzard releases, and Black Desert Online..

Thus such own business mechanic suggested by OP will only rise with new gw3, and hope anet does that perfectly in the future without being p2w or b2w game, which we see now.

Swagger.1459:

Umm this game is not a moba so get that market out of your brain for gw2.

Nor is Overwatch.

Jourdelune.7456:

Miellyn.6847:

… snip …
The moba market stopped growing over a year ago and the viewer numbers in general are slowly dropping across twitch.

The buisness model of lol is complete garbage for new players, only smite and dota2 are actually fair with their f2p model if you want to be competitiv.

I understand where you come from, but it’s false.

Lol is still stable (same number of players from the last year) but new MAJOR MOBA are out. Heroes of the Storm being a new thing on the MOBA market, Dota2 still growing. Moba > Lol. Yes the old LOL stop growing, but the new MOBA generations are incoming.

Twitch will move, but into the MOBA player based or with it. New MOBA out, will mean horizontal movement, not regression or stagnation.

The new Blizzard Overwatch is another MOBA that will grow the market of MOBA players.

Street Fighter V is great. They polish their leaderboard and Match Making system. This is another kind of game (battle or figthing game) that bring more people into the MOBA genre.

Remember Ultima Online? I was in there… Everquest, Asheron Call, Dark age of Camelot, … all those titles was stopping Ultima growth but it got Strong and Stable for long.

Even when WoW came out, the market was still growing, but Ultima declining.

MOBA are the next gen online platform. It is for CORE audience while MMORPG for hardcore one (no life player doing 40 hours + a week). The CORE audience is the growing vector of MOBA. sPVP in Gw2 is a MOBA…. so let’s GROW Gw2 together???

Please continue to sign up and +1 OP.

Dal

MOBA is a bullkitten term created by riot to confuse people and trick them into thinking they created something new, the definition is so loose basically everything could be a MOBA. The original term is ARTS (Action Real Time Strategy).

LoL is only stable with earnings, the playerbase is shrinking. Dota2 and Smite are pretty stable playerwise but much smaller than LoL and the rest isn’t even worth mentioning (yes the Heroes playerbase is non-existant in comparison to LoL/Dota2/Smite). Overwatch is not a ‘MOBA’ it’s a FPS like TF 2…

They release new games of that genre every year because it’s the newest hype and creates money with pretty low effort. It’s the same as with MMOs a few years back.

Miellyn.6847:

MOBA is a bullkitten term created by riot to confuse people and trick them into thinking they created something new, the definition is so loose basically everything could be a MOBA. The original term is ARTS (Action Real Time Strategy).

LoL is only stable with earnings, the playerbase is shrinking. Dota2 and Smite are pretty stable playerwise but much smaller than LoL and the rest isn’t even worth mentioning (yes the Heroes playerbase is non-existant in comparison to LoL/Dota2/Smite). Overwatch is not a ‘MOBA’ it’s a FPS like TF 2…

They release new games of that genre every year because it’s the newest hype and creates money with pretty low effort. It’s the same as with MMOs a few years back.

Yeah, you are right. RIOT want to OWN MOBA but they don’t.

MOBA stand for multiplayer oline battle arena. Unreal Tournament is a MOBA. TF2 is a MOBA. Quake Arena, is a MOBA.

Any games genre can be a MOBA.

Street fighter 5 is a MOBA. They get a ranking system, a match making system and put competitively players online in battle. The Arena is anything that got a limited space that put people vs people into it. The Battleground of WoW can be a MOBA if they got ranking + matchmaking system.

MOBA is another term to say a Player versus Player game. But it’s more than pvp. It got ranking + match making system. To create a match making system you need a queue that will analyse ranking of people to put them versus a match of somewhat equal skills teams. MOBA are not open end pvp free for all to grinds and kills.

I DONT CARE ABOUT PERFECTION. Nothing is perfect. Gw2 sPVP is not perfect but it’s the best Action RPG MOBA around. I dare you find me a better Action RPG MOBA right now. None other exist. Yeah we have RTS MOBA (ARTS) around… but not Action RPG.

Guild Wars 2 is the best. QQ all day, all night… QQ more on forum, QQ on TS with your team… Gw2 sPVP is a MOBA and need to get through the MOBA scene like a MOBA. Not like a dying genre (MMORPG) but like a growing genre (MOBA).

This is a great occasion to bring new players into the dying MMORPG genre. Many MOBA players played their first MMORPG with GW2 and got attract firstly by SPVP.

MAKE SPVP a MOBA for GOD SAKE. We only need a small download footprints and a weekly rotations of SPECIALIZATION. I will market the game for you, if you are poorer to send it to MOBA review web site.

Dal

Improving gameplay mechanics would have a huge impact on the growth of sPvP… but shortcomings in ongoing development are usually tied to the allocation of resources, which is ultimately driven by revenue.

It’s a vicious circle that affects many businesses, and often the best way of breaking it is to find new ways to generate revenue.

sPvP isn’t a major pull factor to the majority of MMORPG players. So if it’s marketed exclusively at this crowd it’s unlikely to justify its potential commercially. This impacts subsequent investment, and more immediately, its prioritisation with regards to class design.

Swagger.1459:

I haven’t realised any of these things. Maybe I will some day.

Phaeton.9582:

… snip …

sPvP isn’t a major pull factor to the majority of MMORPG players. So if it’s marketed exclusively at this crowd it’s unlikely to justify its potential commercially. This impacts subsequent investment, and more immediately, its prioritisation with regards to class design.

… snip …

This is why sPVP is not working. MMORPG players don’t like MOBA.

They want to grind badly script puppets over and over.

When speaking with pvp players about Gw2, I’ve heard many of them complaining about downloading more than 40 gig to get an arena game. This is a major factor for them… but more, If I didn’t said to them that Gw2 had an Arena PVP game, they would not know it.

So, more than 95% of the pvper out there, don’t know that Gw2 got a great Arena PVP game mode.

It’s why Anet need to market sPVP into the right game genre. If not sPvP will die out of it.

Dal