sPvP needs its own business model

sPvP needs its own business model

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

“Available on Steam now, it’ll set you back just £11.59. For that, you’ll get access to public ranked multiplayer matches, allowing you to compete against players of the full version of the first-person-shooter. It also includes customisation features and alternate modes such as Weapon Paint Shop, Gunsmith, Arena, Freerun, Theater, and the Black Market.

Keep in mind though, it’s largely just multiplayer to which you’re getting access. "

Call of Duty is doing that right now. Play only for the multiplayer part of the game.

Pay only for the sPvP game would resume the same. MOBA are usually free to play, but why not asking for 10$ for a sPvP full access (including HoT)?

:)
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2016-02/17/call-of-duty-multiplayer-starter

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: zone.1073

zone.1073

How do I upvote this thread x100? Does the red +1 button do anything?

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Posted by: Kicker.8203

Kicker.8203

+1 they went over the line with elite dpecs. They are never an alternative but a must have

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

+1 they went over the line with elite dpecs. They are never an alternative but a must have

Core professions were build with core Tyria in mind.

HoT elites were built with HoT and (failed attempt at ) at roles in mind.

Core profession have been neglected and there was advice since beta that was ignored and still is ignored.

Simple answer here is that core professions need to be improved and multiple roles inside each profession need to be better imagined and defined.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

(edited by Swagger.1459)

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

How do I upvote this thread x100? Does the red +1 button do anything?

+1 the OP post. that’s it. Bring your friends to do the same. Thank you for your participation.

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

This thread is not about balanced but to offer a business model for sPVP that will compete in the right market.

I agree that the solution can help to alleviate the balance problem between CORE (f2p) and ELITE (b2p hot), but please keep this thread on subject.

If you have more information, comments or opinions about having the Heart of The mist game in a stand alone Esport/MOBA versions please do. For all others, please +1 OP post.

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

This thread is not about balanced but to offer a business model for sPVP that will compete in the right market.

I agree that the solution can help to alleviate the balance problem between CORE (f2p) and ELITE (b2p hot), but please keep this thread on subject.

If you have more information, comments or opinions about having the Heart of The mist game in a stand alone Esport/MOBA versions please do. For all others, please +1 OP post.

This is not a moba.

You can’t have this gw2 stand alone mmo esports business model with these subpar professions and quasi roles.

You can’t have this gw2 stand alone mmo esports with stronghold and capture the circle as the only game modes.

Ncsoft and anet are not going to create a whole new business model just for spvp and throw development and money at it just to separate it from the rest of the game.

Ncsoft and arenanet are not going to produce a whole new stand alone game for spvp. They want players buying and playing the game. They want to convert all “play for free” players because the conversion rates are terrible now as stated in the ncsoft conference call.

Y’all are acting like professions and certain combat elements are anywhere near good enough for this. As is, this game is doing extremely poor on the pvp (spvp and wvw) fronts and participation is at an all time low. I could see if professions were even average and there was great interest in the pvp side of things, but you have to be realistic.

It’s called first things first.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

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Posted by: Sardath.8524

Sardath.8524

While the idea is good, at the moment sPvP doesn’t offer enough for it to be monetized in any way. The number of maps is OK for a mmorpg, but for a stand alone game it’s very lacking. Not only that, but you get only 2 game modes – and stronghold is very unbalanced at the moment, it’s pretty much rush and win. On top of this, due to the current elite spec power creep, you’re pretty much forced into them, resulting in very little variety. Keep in mind, mobas have a lot of heroes to choose from, which feel and play differently. Here we have only 9 classes and most of them are efficient in only one, mostly two builds.

After proper profession balance, additional maps, fixing the current and adding new game modes, Gw could actually try to implement this.

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

I couldn’t agree more with OP.

Two other suggestions:
- If you make elite specs available to everyone… please bring the elite specs back in line with core specs… this is really just boring, everyone runs elite specs because they’re overpowered, no variety or diversity.
- Detach the weapons and utility skills from the trait lines. Binding them together was a really bad idea, because now you are forced into a trait line to equip a certain weapon, puts too many limits on gameplay.

Edit: maybe it should just be a small purchase, say 15-20 euros for the standalone PvP game, so the devs can get some revenue from that (I wouldn’t mind)?

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

(edited by Sirendor.1394)

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

I couldn’t agree more with OP.

Two other suggestions:
- If you make elite specs available to everyone… please bring the elite specs back in line with core specs… this is really just boring, everyone runs elite specs because they’re overpowered, no variety or diversity.
- Detach the weapons and utility skills from the trait lines. Binding them together was a really bad idea, because now you are forced into a trait line to equip a certain weapon, puts too many limits on gameplay.

Edit: maybe it should just be a small purchase, say 15-20 euros for the standalone PvP game, so the devs can get some revenue from that (I wouldn’t mind)?

Elite specs were designed for HoT in mind, not core Tyria like the rest of professions.

Detaching is good, that I’ll agree with.

The devs won’t make money off of it, sorry.

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

Thank you all for your +1. Keep them coming on OP post.

For all balanced issues, please… stay on topic. This is a thread about offering sPVP to the MOBA market. Nothing more, nothing less.

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

To get more than 4k viewers on final, please +1 this thread.

Offering sPVP in a standalone package market to the right CROWDS would help tons to get new players.

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Thank you all for your +1. Keep them coming on OP post.

For all balanced issues, please… stay on topic. This is a thread about offering sPVP to the MOBA market. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is your moba from ncsoft… Even has GW2 npcs.

http://www.playmxm.com/en/

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221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Apolo.5942

Apolo.5942

No business model in the world will fix the train wreck that is the pvp balance in this game.

The term Exploit means nothing in GW2 –
Vials Maize Balm Exploit(Halloween) 2014
Locked out of JP (Wintersday) 2015

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

Here is a great opportunity to put The Heart of the Mist on Android.

http://androidcommunity.com/soulcraft-franchise-outs-cross-platform-moba-game-20150327/

“And yet here we are once more with another addition to the SoulCraft family – this time a MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) game called Heroes of SoulCraft – that is interesting enough to look at because of its cross-platform premise.”

Having a small download footprint or making a stand-alone spvp would help to make it available over Android.

For sPvP Android would be a blast. The games are short and can be consumed on bus ride or at the offices break or launch. Almost anyone got an Android phone or tablet… not all have a PC.

So, going for the MOBA model could open up a new opportunities to get players from other successful multiplayer online platform.

Dal

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Here is a great opportunity to put The Heart of the Mist on Android.

http://androidcommunity.com/soulcraft-franchise-outs-cross-platform-moba-game-20150327/

“And yet here we are once more with another addition to the SoulCraft family – this time a MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) game called Heroes of SoulCraft – that is interesting enough to look at because of its cross-platform premise.”

Having a small download footprint or making a stand-alone spvp would help to make it available over Android.

For sPvP Android would be a blast. The games are short and can be consumed on bus ride or at the offices break or launch. Almost anyone got an Android phone or tablet… not all have a PC.

So, going for the MOBA model could open up a new opportunities to get players from other successful multiplayer online platform.

Dal

Enjoy your moba by ncsoft…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MWJVivKQoPg

http://www.playmxm.com/en/

http://www.polygon.com/2016/1/27/10836020/master-x-master-ncsoft-reveal-announcement-moba-dungeon-crawler-hybrid

http://www.pcgamer.com/ncsoft-announces-master-x-master-a-tag-team-action-moba/

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

Thank you all for your +1. Keep them coming on OP post.

For all balanced issues, please… stay on topic. This is a thread about offering sPVP to the MOBA market. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is your moba from ncsoft… Even has GW2 npcs.

http://www.playmxm.com/en/

??? And you other post… I don’t care about NCSoft or MOBA.

I care about sPVP being a choice for MOBA players.

Everybody else:

Keep the +1 on OP post going, please. Make that thread live for months.

Dal

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Thuggernaut.1250

Thuggernaut.1250

In a perfect world, ANet could probably make money from a “PvP-only” version of the game.

But in reality, ANet straight up can’t balance the professions and can’t even get a decent matchmaking system figured out. PvP-only would be dead on arrival.

This game is totally propped up by PvE and cosmetics. ANet can’t get anything PvP-related right. GW1 PvP had some questionable balance moments, but it really went downhill with GW2.

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Posted by: Swagger.1459

Swagger.1459

Thank you all for your +1. Keep them coming on OP post.

For all balanced issues, please… stay on topic. This is a thread about offering sPVP to the MOBA market. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is your moba from ncsoft… Even has GW2 npcs.

http://www.playmxm.com/en/

??? And you other post… I don’t care about NCSoft or MOBA.

I care about sPVP being a choice for MOBA players.

Everybody else:

Keep the +1 on OP post going, please. Make that thread live for months.

Dal

Mmo is not moba, or are you unaware of the difference?

Ncsoft owns anet, they are not going to embarrass themselves by trying to sell a mmo pvp lobby to a moba market… They have a new game studio now who will be making such things as moba and mobile games so you will be able to play your heart out on those.

You can +1 all you like, but that won’t make it happen…

New Main- 80 Thief – P/P- Vault Spam Pro

221 hours over 1,581 days of bank space/hot pve/lion’s arch afk and some wvw.

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Posted by: AegisFLCL.7623

AegisFLCL.7623

Terrible idea.

PvP would crash and burn even harder than it currently is. Why?

- Lack of a dedicated balance team (game is balanced around PvE, or at the very least 3 games modes and not solely PvP).
- Lack luster and far and few in between balance updates.

The current model seems to be frustrating the player base more and more. Without proper balance and developer support how do you expect them to sustain and or grow the player base beyond its’ current size? I assume the PvP population is much smaller than we think.

(edited by AegisFLCL.7623)

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Posted by: MadRabbit.3179

MadRabbit.3179

It’s still apples to oranges to some extent.

I don’t think the success of MOBAs is necessarily linked to their business model, though I am sure it has something to do with it.

The combat mechanics in games like DOTA 2 and LoL are very different and I think overall just lead to a more skill intensive game.

While that’s debatable, I don’t think it’s debatable that the combat is substantially slower and easier for viewers to track. I think this is a huge factor into why it’s succesfull.

A lot of the top games with huge competitive scenes have this in common.

Hearthstone is a stragetic card game where you can easily track every player as a viewer. The game is arguably not competitve, because of all the RNG, but that’s why it has such a high number of viewers. Matches are unpredictable and the RNG mechanics interact in ways that create one in a million type events. You can watch a game of Hearthstone and you’ll never see that same game again.

Starcraft is real time stragety game with a huge ESL scene. There is a channel on twitch that does nothing, but stream Starcraft tournament runs 24/7. It’s a very hard, skill intensive game that requires a lot of APM, but the overall game is still slow enough for viewers to understand the plays.

The same applies to LoL and DoTA 2. Just slower paced combat that’s also more skill intensive.

GW2 doesn’t have any of that. The fact paced second to second combat is an intensive playing experience, but god awful to watch. It’s a blue of particle effects that make seperating out the individual skills being used by players nearly impossible. Even as a player who has played for 3 years and understands the game, watching it is incredibly boring since half of the time I don’t know what is going on in a match as a whole and less so in individual fights where I have to stare at an action bar and track cooldown usage to try and get an idea of what skills they just used.

It’s even worse given that a lot of people playing the game don’t understand basic stragetic tactics being used in maps like “rotating” and the lack of availability of that information makes it incredibly difficult for a potential viewer to learn and understand just what is going on or why certain things are significant and deserve a “ooo” or a “awwww”

Even player roles in matches like “bunker” are player defined terms and not actual roles built explicitly into the game mechanics itself.

These games in question have streamers that average 20k viewers and the viewership on tournaments on single streams average into the 40-50k. At any given time, a GW2 streamer exceeding triple digits is rare and the tournaments rarely go heavily into the thousands.

You break it off into it’s own game using a model like MOBAs do and it will never achieve the critical mass needed to support itself, because it’s not an interesting eSport to watch.

Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.

(edited by MadRabbit.3179)

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

It’s still apples to oranges to some extent.

I don’t think the success of MOBAs is necessarily linked to their business model, though I am sure it has something to do with it.

The combat mechanics in games like DOTA 2 and LoL are very different and I think overall just lead to a more skill intensive game.

While that’s debatable, I don’t think it’s debatable that the combat is substantially slower and easier for viewers to track. I think this is a huge factor into why it’s succesfull.

A lot of the top games with huge competitive scenes have this in common.

Hearthstone is a stragetic card game where you can easily track every player as a viewer. The game is arguably not competitve, because of all the RNG, but that’s why it has such a high number of viewers. Matches are unpredictable and the RNG mechanics interact in ways that create one in a million type events. You can watch a game of Hearthstone and you’ll never see that same game again.

Starcraft is real time stragety game with a huge ESL scene. There is a channel on twitch that does nothing, but stream Starcraft tournament runs 24/7. It’s a very hard, skill intensive game that requires a lot of APM, but the overall game is still slow enough for viewers to understand the plays.

The same applies to LoL and DoTA 2. Just slower paced combat that’s also more skill intensive.

GW2 doesn’t have any of that. The fact paced second to second combat is an intensive playing experience, but god awful to watch. It’s a blue of particle effects that make seperating out the individual skills being used by players nearly impossible. Even as a player who has played for 3 years and understands the game, watching it is incredibly boring since half of the time I don’t know what is going on in a match as a whole and less so in individual fights where I have to stare at an action bar and track cooldown usage to try and get an idea of what skills they just used.

It’s even worse given that a lot of people playing the game don’t understand basic stragetic tactics being used in maps like “rotating” and the lack of availability of that information makes it incredibly difficult for a potential viewer to learn and understand just what is going on or why certain things are significant and deserve a “ooo” or a “awwww”

Even player roles in matches like “bunker” are player defined terms and not actual roles built explicitly into the game mechanics itself.

These games in question have streamers that average 20k viewers and the viewership on tournaments on single streams average into the 40-50k. At any given time, a GW2 streamer exceeding triple digits is rare and the tournaments rarely go heavily into the thousands.

You break it off into it’s own game using a model like MOBAs do and it will never achieve the critical mass needed to support itself, because it’s not an interesting eSport to watch.

Your arguments seems good. But the objective here is not to have more streamers. Like you said, it’s not great to watch.

The objective is to capitalize on accessibility, because this is the major factor to have a strong PLAYER BASE.

Let’s say that the Heart of the Mist stand alone game, bring 400 000k players right of the bat. Let’s say the retention rate is 10%. Well, the 40k player base would be actually 10 times bigger than now.

This would put ANET into another mindset about how to invest into the game. Actually, spvp seems “lack luster” in DEV ressources… well… with 4k players… what else they could do?

With my 400k estimated, I am way way way lower than LOL or DOTA or other MOBA out there…

It’s probably more into the 4 millions you could get.

MMORPG are something. Nice Gw2 is a MMORPG. But they put a MOBA into it. And they didn’t market for it. It’s why we have a low population into it.

SPVP should be sold has a MOBA, whatever it’s F2P or B2P. It need to get a small download footprint and some accessibility to the F2P crowd on Earth.

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Sirendor.1394

Sirendor.1394

Just want to bring this up for discussion again. Still seems like a good idea to me.

Gandara – Vabbi – Ring of Fire – Fissure of Woe – Vabbi
SPvP as Standalone All is Vain

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Posted by: Jourdelune.7456

Jourdelune.7456

Just want to bring this up for discussion again. Still seems like a good idea to me.

Thank you,

Look at this post from reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/49vpzr/if_you_had_to_remove_1_game_mode_from_guild_wars/

Even other game mode players want to remove sPVP from their game.

But… all MOBA gw2 players want to have visibility over the MOBA market while keeping it a game mode for other players (pve and wvw).

Dal Aï Lhama (Tempest), Dal Lahu Akbar (DH), Lord Dhal of Dharma (Scrapper) 12k+ spvp games.
Former Team Captain of ggwp (ESL weekly), GLHF (AG), MIST[CORE] spvp alliance guild.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2PvPTeams/

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

Just want to bring this up for discussion again. Still seems like a good idea to me.

There’s been a lot of ‘discussion’ recently on the forums about season 2 divisions. this post here is especially good at talking about ways to improve match-ups.

But divisions are fun when you’re in a division of equally skilled players. And that’s simply easier to do with more players in the mix.

It’s often used in F2P games, because it takes a lot of players to make it work well.

Going back to the ‘new player experience’ though, most of the guys who are trying to play ‘for free’ will be currently getting squashed in amber/emerald (which are probably the most one sided, uncompetitive divisions for many reasons).

They’ll have to buy the game having never experienced conquest at any enjoyable level.. its just not a great route to market in its current state.


Phaatonn, London UK