Guild Wars 2

If the entire point of 15% cut is to prevent players from using TP as bank then surely sell instant should be except from cut or at least the cut percentage should be less than that of listing item. If players are willing to sell their items immediately there is no way for them to use TP as bank but both transaction type gets charged the same 15% cut.

In the most popular MMORPG game at the end of a TP transaction the amount of money you receive is the winning bid, minus the cut, plus the return of their deposit. This makes sense to me, TP gets a cut from a transaction and also returns your deposit once you sell your item. If you decide to cancel your item sale you don’t get your deposit back for wasting space in TP. Fair enough.

I’m trying to think of an economic model that can justify GW2 model;

Listing Fee (5%) — This nonrefundable cost covers listing and holding your items for sale. This fee has a minimum of 1 Copper coin.
Exchange Fee (10%) — After a successful trade, the item exchange fee is deducted from coins delivered to the seller. This fee has a minimum of 1 Copper coin.

If we look at GW2 TP model it seems like it was designed to punish players for making successful transaction?! Everyone can agree with 5% listing fee cut that is non-refundable regardless of transaction being successful or not. But what is the point for 10% exchange fee cut? If the point was to prevent players from using the TP as bank they would have made listing fee cut much higher but instead of doing that they add 10% cut after successful trade. How is 10% cut after successful trading going to discourage players from using TP as bank storage? If it was before successful transaction it would make sense. That extra 10% cut looks to me like a way to extract more gold from activate players.

So we don’t have 1-to-1 trade request and we also get punished for successful TP transaction. Good job, refreshing economic model.

TP 15% cut is another annoying gold sink mechanism in this game and most likely more so than mystic toilet.

Anka.5086:

TP 15% cut is another annoying gold sink mechanism in this game and most likely more so than mystic toilet.

You said it yourself.

Who uses sell orders as a bank anyway? From what I’ve read, those that use the TP as a bank use buy orders, not sell orders. No fee. TP holds your gold. If you put a 100 gold buy order on a legendary and it gets filled, well…. I guess you can come to the forum and complain. /shrug.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Who uses sell orders as a bank anyway? From what I’ve read, those that use the TP as a bank use buy orders, not sell orders. No fee. TP holds your gold. If you put a 100 gold buy order on a legendary and it gets filled, well…. I guess you can come to the forum and complain. /shrug.

I think there is a misunderstanding with what I meant by sell order. I meant listing an item. * first post edited

pay once play forever. they need to keep the economy alive somehow.

It’s primary purpose is as a gold sink, not as a deterrent to use as storage. That’s just a side benefit. Whether you like it or not, MMO’s need gold sinks.

Anka.5086:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Who uses sell orders as a bank anyway? From what I’ve read, those that use the TP as a bank use buy orders, not sell orders. No fee. TP holds your gold. If you put a 100 gold buy order on a legendary and it gets filled, well…. I guess you can come to the forum and complain. /shrug.

I think there is a misunderstanding with what I meant by sell order. I meant listing an item. * first post edited

Ok. I’m still confused. You are saying people store items in the trading post as a bank? Why do that? For a little bit of gold you can get a personal guild bank and store items in there, as long as you want with no charge.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Anka.5086:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Who uses sell orders as a bank anyway? From what I’ve read, those that use the TP as a bank use buy orders, not sell orders. No fee. TP holds your gold. If you put a 100 gold buy order on a legendary and it gets filled, well…. I guess you can come to the forum and complain. /shrug.

I think there is a misunderstanding with what I meant by sell order. I meant listing an item. * first post edited

Ok. I’m still confused. You are saying people store items in the trading post as a bank? Why do that? For a little bit of gold you can get a personal guild bank and store items in there, as long as you want with no charge.

Because the TP is infinite is size and costs only a one time 5% fee to store an item there forever, assuming of course the price you listed it at is unlikely to be reached before you retrieve it.

As for the OP. The 5% fee nonrefundable fee is also there to encourage the seller to pick a reasonable selling price right away rather than list it, pull it as soon as it’s undercut, list it again, rinse and repeat. New stuff coming on can undercut but it will cost an existing seller to chase the price down.

The 10% is purely a gold sink. The sales tax.

Also like to point out here in this discussion is that selling to the highest bid is actually just listing at the item for sale at that price. A normal “sales” order is generated, added to the database of items for sale and then the bid at the price gets fulfilled. There is a chance that that bid was filled while your item was getting listed. So no “cut me a deal on the post fee cause I’m selling it to that guy right there”.

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s primary purpose is as a gold sink, not as a deterrent to use as storage. That’s just a side benefit. Whether you like it or not, MMO’s need gold sinks.

It’s one thing to have a gold sink that makes sense like the example I wrote in my first post, its another thing to abuse the fact that players can’t trade any other way by extracting unreasonable cut from TP sales. If there was 1-to-1 trading system this could be acceptable.

But the only thing you suggested was P2P trades and not a way to pull the necessary amount of currency out of the economy to keep overall, wide scale inflation down to a dull roar.

Of course they could always choose the option of turning the taps back at the source, drop less coins and items.

Anka.5086:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s primary purpose is as a gold sink, not as a deterrent to use as storage. That’s just a side benefit. Whether you like it or not, MMO’s need gold sinks.

It’s one thing to have a gold sink that makes sense like the example I wrote in my first post, its another thing to abuse the fact that players can’t trade any other way by extracting unreasonable cut from TP sales. If there was 1-to-1 trading system this could be acceptable.

If there was a P2P trade system, then players would use it to avoid the only real gold sink in the game. No runaway inflation, thanks. No WTS Spam in chat, thanks.

Btw, what makes the fees unreasonable, other than you wanting more gold for your items?

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Anka.5086:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Who uses sell orders as a bank anyway? From what I’ve read, those that use the TP as a bank use buy orders, not sell orders. No fee. TP holds your gold. If you put a 100 gold buy order on a legendary and it gets filled, well…. I guess you can come to the forum and complain. /shrug.

I think there is a misunderstanding with what I meant by sell order. I meant listing an item. * first post edited

Ok. I’m still confused. You are saying people store items in the trading post as a bank? Why do that? For a little bit of gold you can get a personal guild bank and store items in there, as long as you want with no charge.

Because the TP is infinite is size and costs only a one time 5% fee to store an item there forever, assuming of course the price you listed it at is unlikely to be reached before you retrieve it.

As for the OP. The 5% fee nonrefundable fee is also there to encourage the seller to pick a reasonable selling price right away rather than list it, pull it as soon as it’s undercut, list it again, rinse and repeat. New stuff coming on can undercut but it will cost an existing seller to chase the price down.

The 10% is purely a gold sink. The sales tax.

Also like to point out here in this discussion is that selling to the highest bid is actually just listing at the item for sale at that price. A normal “sales” order is generated, added to the database of items for sale and then the bid at the price gets fulfilled. There is a chance that that bid was filled while your item was getting listed. So no “cut me a deal on the post fee cause I’m selling it to that guy right there”.

5% cut is also gold sink it would be wrong to describe it as anything else but it’s an acceptable way to extract gold from the user. It makes sense to our idea of how should trading post operate. This is important in MMORPG games because things like TP needs to reflect players understanding of trading. But then you have 10% cut that feels like complete rip-off.

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Anka.5086:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Who uses sell orders as a bank anyway? From what I’ve read, those that use the TP as a bank use buy orders, not sell orders. No fee. TP holds your gold. If you put a 100 gold buy order on a legendary and it gets filled, well…. I guess you can come to the forum and complain. /shrug.

I think there is a misunderstanding with what I meant by sell order. I meant listing an item. * first post edited

Ok. I’m still confused. You are saying people store items in the trading post as a bank? Why do that? For a little bit of gold you can get a personal guild bank and store items in there, as long as you want with no charge.

Because the TP is infinite is size and costs only a one time 5% fee to store an item there forever, assuming of course the price you listed it at is unlikely to be reached before you retrieve it.

As for the OP. The 5% fee nonrefundable fee is also there to encourage the seller to pick a reasonable selling price right away rather than list it, pull it as soon as it’s undercut, list it again, rinse and repeat. New stuff coming on can undercut but it will cost an existing seller to chase the price down.

The 10% is purely a gold sink. The sales tax.

Also like to point out here in this discussion is that selling to the highest bid is actually just listing at the item for sale at that price. A normal “sales” order is generated, added to the database of items for sale and then the bid at the price gets fulfilled. There is a chance that that bid was filled while your item was getting listed. So no “cut me a deal on the post fee cause I’m selling it to that guy right there”.

Well then, as you know but didn’t mention, the fee is there then to stop people from using the trading post as unlimited bank storage. Since it’s there for at least partly that reason, then OPs wish to do so is not going to be granted.

Like I said, the alternative to keep inflation due to growth in the money supply among players is to reduce the drop rate. The choice is yours.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Anka.5086:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s primary purpose is as a gold sink, not as a deterrent to use as storage. That’s just a side benefit. Whether you like it or not, MMO’s need gold sinks.

It’s one thing to have a gold sink that makes sense like the example I wrote in my first post, its another thing to abuse the fact that players can’t trade any other way by extracting unreasonable cut from TP sales. If there was 1-to-1 trading system this could be acceptable.

If there was a P2P trade system, then players would use it to avoid the only real gold sink in the game. No runaway inflation, thanks. No WTS Spam in chat, thanks.

Btw, what makes the fees unreasonable, other than you wanting more gold for your items?

I wouldn’t want people to start spamming map chat with ’’WTS’’ messages as well.
I don’t really care about TP getting 15% of sales. The fact that they are trying to present it as two different sale cut is annoying. It isn’t! Both of them are gold sink. They should stop presenting it as something else. Either make 15% listing fee or remove 10%.

Anka.5086:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Anka.5086:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s primary purpose is as a gold sink, not as a deterrent to use as storage. That’s just a side benefit. Whether you like it or not, MMO’s need gold sinks.

It’s one thing to have a gold sink that makes sense like the example I wrote in my first post, its another thing to abuse the fact that players can’t trade any other way by extracting unreasonable cut from TP sales. If there was 1-to-1 trading system this could be acceptable.

If there was a P2P trade system, then players would use it to avoid the only real gold sink in the game. No runaway inflation, thanks. No WTS Spam in chat, thanks.

Btw, what makes the fees unreasonable, other than you wanting more gold for your items?

I wouldn’t want people to start spamming map chat with ’’WTS’’ messages as well.
I don’t really care about TP getting 15% of sales. The fact that they are trying to present it as two different sale cut is annoying. It isn’t! Both of them are gold sink. They should stop presenting it as something else. Either make 15% listing fee or remove 10%.

15% is what they decided on as the sink amount. I presume their economist has his reasons for that amount.

Splitting the fee 5/10 instead of 15/0 benefits anyone who lists an item and then cancels. Splitting it 0/15% would solve that, but then there’s no deterrent for using the TP as storage. Also, the list fee means that high volume traders tie up some of their funds until items sell. So, there are reasons for the split.

Your initial complaint had to do with a quick sale. For such, a 0/15 and a 5/10 fee structure is basically the same. Well, except for your annoyance factor.

Sure, ANet could have charged 5% for listing, then 15% (the desired sink amount) for a sale, while refunding the 5% list fee. Since the fee for a sale would be the same, I have to wonder if that’s unnecessary server load. Also, since we get our proceeds from the TP agent, charging 5/15 and refunding 5 would look exactly the same as charging 5/10 with no refund.

Simplest solution: Rename “listing fee” to “transaction fee” if someone selects the “sell to highest buyer” option.

They could call it George and people would still object to the 5% fee. I think people just need to get used to how the TP works in this game, since it’s different from other games.