Guild Wars 2

I just need to comment on this issue because I can’t find any reasonable form of validation for it, from any perspective, aside from it being just bad design.

So, hopefully someone from ArenaNet will help with clarifying this one for me.

With the HoT expansion some of the stats combinations were newly introduced to the game and were implemented behind certain tasks to be performed in-game in order to unlock them. Also they are exclusively craftable; Viper, Trailblazer and Minstrel**** in particular, the requirements are so far behind with limitations that it’s ridiculously difficult to acquire a full set of at least 1 of these new combinations.
Think of the rarity of fresh water pearls, or the water lilies.

Why are Trailblazer and Minister (left on purpose to tease Rasimir :P) so badly hindered? Are they like end-game gear and we’re saying that these type of stats are a powerful goal to reach?

To the latter question isn’t limiting an certain set of stats the same as limiting, for th absurdity of it all and just as an example, the warrior profession because it’s so strong that it should be considered as an end-game feature?

Why can’t we all have easy access to how and what we want to play and then once we’ve customized our character in terms of stats we can actually do the “content” of the game and play “Map X, Map Y. event X, event Y or do whatever X, Y instance”?

Just to defuse a possible counter-argument that unlocking these kind of gears, would also unlock a specific skin, well no, they have not an exclusive visual or unlock you an exclusive skin once say you’ve crafted a Minister (guess I was focused on the topic and not the terminology – funny though) coat.

So, why ArenaNet did you do this? Why are stats in certain combinations implemented as a game feature ?

There are similar stat sets widely available in core content. Most (if not all) of the game’s content can be played with those core stat sets that are easy to get. The newer, more specialized (and in some builds more powerful) stat sets were added to keep the min-maxing part of the population busy. If you want to go for the optimum, go grind your expansion stats. If “almost as good” is good enough for you, take what the base game offers.

At least that’s my guess on the topic .

P.S.: It’s minstrel’s, not minister’s .

Rasimir.6239:

There are similar stat sets widely available in core content. Most (if not all) of the game’s content can be played with those core stat sets that are easy to get. The newer, more specialized (and in some builds more powerful) stat sets were added to keep the min-maxing part of the population busy. If you want to go for the optimum, go grind your expansion stats. If “almost as good” is good enough for you, take what the base game offers.

At least that’s my guess on the topic .

You missed the point entirely, and the point is specifically about HoT gear stat sets, name Minstrel and Trailblazer, and tied to the rarity of the crafting mats. It’s about the concept of making gear stats a meta, a goal towards which end-game develops, instead of them being part of your free player character customization, in regards to gameplay choices.

Rasimir.6239:

P.S.: It’s minstrel’s, not minister’s .

All right, better than your initial comment, at least this one hits the topic …somewhat.
I’ve edited the O.P.
Hope I won’t be stoned to death because of a typo. Mercy please mister :P

Fosio.8217:

You missed the point entirely

Who missed what point is be debatable . My point is: the new stat sets are purposefully placed behind hard-to-get materials to appeal to people willing to grind a lot for a little increase in strength. Just like ascended armor isn’t a huge leap from exotic armor when it comes to the strength it gives your character but is a huge leap in cost.

Did that make it more clear, madame?

If I understand correctly, your grievance is the cost of materials to make the gear, yes? I don’t believe these were very expensive to start with. The cost of insignias and Amalgamated Gemstones drove them upward. I wouldn’t say it’s poor design but rather that the materials need to be more available (higher drop rate, new sources, etc).

I think the OP believes the gear stats shouldn’t be a “goal” in a game that doesn’t “gear grind” and whose major achievements are cosmetic items. Regardless of the cost.

I believe Fosio’s question is basically: Why pve gear stats aren’t just freely selectable, PvP style?

The answer is threefold:

1- Character Progression: Any RPG features, uses, and needs statistic development for its characters as a mean to make people feel they are growing, getting better, going somewhere. Its a staple of the genre. Maybe it shouldn’t be attached to gear… but that is matter for another discussion.

2- Economy: Gear justifies having an internal economy. Without needing to buy gear, it becames progresivelly hard to justify the existence of the TP. Of course, you could still commerce with skins and dyes, but more than half the mats out there would lose significance, therefore making farming, crafting and other “intermediate” activities irrelevant. Wich leads us to the third point.

3- Fun: Believe it or not, crafting is fun. As it is selling, buying and gambling. And hoarding, and organizing, and calculating. And even grinding. People do this things that should be a chore, in their SPARE TIME. They are willing to sacrifice precious hours of rest to… match absurd amounts of virtual items in a way that create abstract probability boosters attached to silly icons. Because the chores and choices are part of the fun too: the process of making a “viper” armor to improve a certain build incorporate work, choices and socialization, which make the result VALUABLE, and the whole experience worthy of our time. Fun.

Tat being said, remember the new, more expensive sets aren’t meant to be crafted. That is only a booby trap: you should be making cheaper sets to convert in the mystic forge. (Yes, getting this info is part of the game too)

The purpose of this thread is to make us all reflect on the decision made by ArenaNet to have us perform tasks in end-game to acquire not gear because that exact gear has a special, specific appearance, that would be a sought out understandable goal, but on the contrary we’re playing at max level doing a lot of grinding to acquire stats in certain combinations.

Now what you all should ask yourself is why? How is this even a feature? What’s the point of having for example Minstrel (Toughness, Healing, Vitality and Concentration in their specific ratio) in such a combination? Is this a winning combination? Isn’t acquiring stats something inherent to classes?

These are some of the questions that I invite you all to think through.
This is what this thread is about and how unlocking certain stat combinations not only do not warrant you anything other than playing a character in a specific way, like unlocking a specific class/role but they should also never be a game feature to begin with.

Q:Why are they not a condition for end-game features Fosio and how is this crazy in your humble point of view?

Well, Fred, it’s simple actually.
A player that has reached maxed level is not playing the way he/she wants to be playing but is on a long journey to unlocking these other stats. And so, for a long amount of time they will grind and do the same things they’ll be doing even when they’ve acquired the full stats they want in their desired combination.
Which is a ridiculous contradiction.
Not only you’re spending your time playing the way you’re not wanting to play, with your desired stats, but also you’re doing the same things you’ll be doing when you’ve unlocked that chased after stat combination.

Then we can shift the discussion to why we even have professions to begin with and how lately they’re all playing the same and soon every profession will have even the same amount of F1-to F5 mechanics.

To remain on topic, let’s reflect upon why we are sent on the chase for Trailblazer and Minstrel? Correlated to this, when the sets of stats are exlusively craftable, why are the Maguuma Lily and the Freshwater Pearl so rare?

@Ardid
You were close to understanding my point but I never said anything about “freely selectable stats like in PvP” – so your arguments that follow do not really go in my way.
Thanks though.

There are a couple of different goals mentioned:

• Creating an economic demand, critical in any game.
• Gating HoT stats so that they are only available to HoT players.
• Creation of different tiers of stats: basic (easily found, bought with currencies, or on the TP).
• Character progression
• Ensuring that there’s always a demand to participate in HoT mats.

ANet made all of the above more complicated when they tied prefixes to particular mats, rather than establishing a 1:1 correspondence, e.g. ‘blood’ produces berserker’s stats rather than providing power alone. Prefix-per-activator means that ANet has to introduce new mats for each and every stat in the game, requiring them to balance supply against an unsure demand.

To more directly answer the OP’s question: yeah, ANet tied themselves in knots with the stat prefix system and it’s not easy for them to add new stats with appropriate supply & demand and still ensure that some things are reserved for those who own the expansion. IMO, they’d have to redesign the entire system before it gets better.

sometimes when I read these threads. I feel like I am experiencing deja vu.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Build-option-in-Special-Forces-Training-Area

Here is another thread with sort of the same problem. Easy/cheap/accessible way to test stats combinations

I think it’s just to encourage the play of the particular region it’s found in and to give that area a long-term presence of players. Not to mention the HoT story takes place after the original story, so players are expected to go there after they’ve done everything else, atleast in my opinion. These attribute combinations are more for end-game content. So I think it makes sense that it has to be crafted, as by the end of game you would surely have the crafting profession completed or be well on your way to doing so. Either that or you can get a nice drop from playing the content.

For gameplay and having a reason to login I suppose. I really want Viper’s. But crafting it is much more expensive than just buying Zerker from the TP. Having a goal to work for gives me a reason to play.

Being more expensive/harder to obtain, a specific combination of stats is just another level of prestige to work for. Someone made a mention of it earlier, but it’s like Ascended gear, it’s only so minuscule in terms of stat bonuses, but gives you a better edge compared with what everyone else is wearing.

It’s like the “Ahh nice, that guy spent a ton of work to get that…”

That, or it really is just better stats anyways and worth working for it.

Vipers > Sinister > Rabid

Lets assume a guy believes the above to be true, they can totally get the core set Rabid, pretty cheap and easy to get. Then working for Sinister and Viper after that gives him a reason to keep playing.

So, if you don’t think the stat combination warrants the effort, just don’t do it? Some players might find it worth it and work towards making that gear. If you don’t think the stat difference is big enough to justify the effort why do you care? How does it affect you? Anet gave more options and as they were new and unique, they are harder to get. When HoT launched do you think people should have been able to walk in and buy the armor stats?

Maybe you agree that’s how it should have been, but it would have felt off to me. I’m okay with working towards new gear if I find it worth the effort. The only point I can agree with is the pearls and lillies being so rare- that’s been a problem with ALL gemstones since amalgamated gemstones were released.

Fosio.8217:

Why can’t we all have easy access to how and what we want to play and then once we’ve customized our character in terms of stats we can actually do the “content” of the game and play “Map X, Map Y. event X, event Y or do whatever X, Y instance”?

Because:

• MMO’s survive on players being willing to repeat content.
• Many MMO players won’t repeat content unless “rewards.”
• ANet has been listening to those players since shortly after launch, and has learned from them that they can make players play specific content by placing desirable stuff behind it.

Tom.8029:

I think it’s just to encourage the play of the particular region it’s found in and to give that area a long-term presence of players. Not to mention the HoT story takes place after the original story, so players are expected to go there after they’ve done everything else, atleast in my opinion.

Hey Tom, thanks for contributing with such a great argument.
I see your point entirely and I do hope that’s the logic they plan to follow, in fact I hope that there will be an emphasis on the stat combinations and map connections, as you correctly stated, based on the story and its evolution.

In the latest map for example, Ember Bay, there is a clearer(even if weak) picture of the topic and the logic at hand. The map has a thematic line around Burning, so what I’m looking at is Burning Immunity for foes, as an offset for Condition Damage builds based on Burning as a main damage source. Since Burning is the highest damage dealing condition it makes sense for one to specialize around it and to have maps being created with foes that try to counter you – thus immunity to Burning. I like this logic and I hope we’ll see more maps created with foes having a wider array of affixes to counter Boons, Condition Damage, Healing(Poison and better), Direct Damage (armor affixes and better), Mobility(Slow, Exhaust and CC outside of field) etc.

As I recall it was the same thematic thinking that created some classes and abilities (see Necromancers and their feasting on conditions or Mesmers and their boon-stealing). However if we go back to July this year (2016) and the release of Bloodstone Fen – there is no theme there in regards to stat combinations. Now if we go even more back in time, and talk about the Heart of Maguuma maps that came with the expansions we’ll just return to my O.P. point about generalizing Trailblazer and Minstrel across 4 maps with no specific map themes or logic.

Think of the Minstrel as a build and what that translates in-game, do the same for the Trailblazer set and then try to find counters in foes across Heart of Maguuma. The first one is a Healer/Boons supporter that finds no counter affixes from enemies in said maps and the second one is a damage in time build with great defenses as well – which doesn’t even care about raptors, mushrooms and rabid chihuahuas.