Guild Wars 2

Jski.6180:

Aeonblade.8709:

Uruz Six.6594:

Zelthios.5902:

You’re implying the holy trinity was a bad thing.

I’m stating the trinity is not for everyone.

This is probably true, but like I said in a post a few weeks ago, if you aren’t going to use the trinity, have a viable alternative. Having most of the players stack Berserker gear and hope they kill things before they die is not a replacement for a balanced combat system imo :P

To each their own as you said.

Well no if your trying to kill things before you die in a berserker set you will die every time before you can kill any thing. You must fill all roll at any given moment there no more easy mod mob always on the tank a healer to keep you alive and a dps to kill the mob you must help with every thing.

I theory, you are correct, and that would be awesome. However, it usually plays out with 4 people trying to be dps kings with no support utilities and one poor guy trying desperately to keep stability up and everyone alive.

I’ve been playing GW2 since the day after launch. I’m not bored yet. No MMO has kept my attention this long. I played WoW for a couple years, but only in 3-4 month spurts until I got bored.

GW2 has no problem at all with longevity, as far as I’m concerned.

I’ve never had a point where I just sat back and said “I don’t know what to do…I’m bored.”

Aeonblade.8709:

Jski.6180:

Aeonblade.8709:

Uruz Six.6594:

Zelthios.5902:

You’re implying the holy trinity was a bad thing.

I’m stating the trinity is not for everyone.

This is probably true, but like I said in a post a few weeks ago, if you aren’t going to use the trinity, have a viable alternative. Having most of the players stack Berserker gear and hope they kill things before they die is not a replacement for a balanced combat system imo :P

To each their own as you said.

Well no if your trying to kill things before you die in a berserker set you will die every time before you can kill any thing. You must fill all roll at any given moment there no more easy mod mob always on the tank a healer to keep you alive and a dps to kill the mob you must help with every thing.

I theory, you are correct, and that would be awesome. However, it usually plays out with 4 people trying to be dps kings with no support utilities and one poor guy trying desperately to keep stability up and everyone alive.

Ppl are too set in there ways then they are unable to play any thing but a WoW clone.

OP clearly never done stuff like arah. or high lvl fractals. not evvvvverything in a mmo can be hard,

and imo build variety is pretty kitten good for most of the classes. theres a few unlocky which they are actively working on making better.

Firegoth.6427:

Look, not coming here to defend the game, but you don’t realize that Arenanet’s business model revolves around fresh updates every month, bring the old and new players alike back to the game.

There will always be new turnover of players, I don’t care if Bob the mighty stopped playing, since he will be replaced by Joe the invincible whom will be replaced by Mike the Warrior.

And I promise you, I PROMISE, that you and all the complainers will buy any new expansion that will come out as soon as it does.
Why?

• Because you love to complain
• Because you love venting
• Because you think you deserve more
  But you won’t admit that you won’t be able to stop playing this game every time a new interesting content will come out. And this is how Arenanet will keep this game alive, because you won’t quit, not 100%, not ever.

Yeah I might buy the expansions, I might not. It depends on how much they change. Why do I and others like to complain (not that I speak for everyone)? No it isn’t because we love venting or thinking we deserve more, it is because they made this game look amazing and promise a lot in trailers and upon release it was nothing like the trailers.

The manifesto trailer is the main reasoning behind why I complain. I wouldn’t complain if they didn’t create a trailer that really didn’t reflect the game.

Example 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLFAC73F8A4D894531&v=FU1JUwPqzQY#t=39s

This game has nothing that “we loved” about guild wars 1. Only the lore is still in here.
I wont lie the new event system is kinda in there and kind of isn’t. I found many events that you do are very basic (collect X items, kill X monsters) while the really cool ones are hardly done or there are very few in the world. Look at seraph assault in harathi and orgre wars, they’re almost like mirror images of each other. Capture these areas →kill these monsters → destroy these buildings → kill the “leader”.

The combat is the only thing I find remotely better than other MMOs.

Example 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLFAC73F8A4D894531&v=FU1JUwPqzQY#t=90s

You dont want players to grind? Look at legendaries. Look at any item that looks cool (You need 250 of X T6 mat). I’d love to get out there and do more events and explore the world and feel like a hero, but they just dont do that. Leveling consist of running from heart to heart doing occasional basic events. DE hardly every change the world as promised. The bosses now respawn 3 hours later instead of 10 mins later.

Example 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLFAC73F8A4D894531&v=FU1JUwPqzQY#t=145s

Cause and effect? I see no decision making at all, I hardly see towns that remember me. There are a few at the start but they quickly diminish. I don’t see these characters again. When I do a dynamic event, I don’t feel like I’ve done anything they promised. I just see a bunch of monsters despawn only to respawn again in an hour or so. The meta events should the main thing to do this, but they don’t. I just took down a huge dragon and I go to the nearby town and they act like nothing happened, either saying scripted text or just not acknowledging what happened.

There are so many cool areas in the world and so much they could have done with these events and how the players affect the world, instead it feels like they started taking shortcuts and rushing the game. Going against a large portion of what they promised (Fractals are the embodiment of grinding practically), so if a company makes a trailer that promises a lot and they go back on even one of those promises, I think I do have a right to complain because I feel like they pulled a fast one.

The game lacks the depth that would hold my interest in the long run, but it also has no monthly fee. If this game had a monthly fee I would have cancelled months ago, but without one I can pick up the game when there’s a content update and put it down afterwards.

The tools are in place for the game to have depth, eventually; it will simply require a lot of development work to go into their skill and trait systems, and given that their money comes from selling boxes and monthly content updates, I don’t know that they have a lot of motivation to do it. The game doesn’t need depth to drive sales, this is not a competitive PvP game people will play for years – it’s a casual-friendly PvE game, where simplicity can actually be a boon.

Ensign.2189:

The tools are in place for the game to have depth, eventually; it will simply require a lot of development work to go into their skill and trait systems, and given that their money comes from selling boxes and monthly content updates, I don’t know that they have a lot of motivation to do it. The game doesn’t need depth to drive sales, this is not a competitive PvP game people will play for years – it’s a casual-friendly PvE game, where simplicity can actually be a boon.

I’ve been considering something like this over the last several days, and I think you’re right. It’s a shame, really.

I think the biggest issue that a lot of ‘hardcore’ players are having is the lack of progression in the game.

In most other MMO’s you have a progression from Solo → Group → Raid progression which is non-existent in this game. The biggest reason why it’s not there is because gear doesn’t progress like other MMO’s, it progresses horizontally than vertically. While other MMO’s ‘gear stat’ is the progression, which allows people to go from Solo → Group → Raid, that doesn’t mean it’s the only progression a game can have.

Many players think that legendary’s are the the end all be all of progression, this isn’t true on most stand points. While grinding for a legendary you have multiple ways the best is playing the trading post; which is not progression. A way to remedy this is to add some type of progression, like other games—this doesn’t mean a gear stat progression.

ArenaNet tried to add a similar progression to the game with Guild Missions, but it has a lot of bugs that really need fine tuning before they can be an acceptable approach to a true progression; I will leave that list out of this post. While there is a lot to do as a solo player those that enjoy the aspect of MMO’s which is playing with other players are only given very little. Dungeons (AC, CM, CoE, TA, HotW, CoF, Arah), WvW, or PvP and each of these aspects are flawed in one way or another; once again I will leave the list out of the post.

The longevity of a game comes from both the casual player which ArenaNet has gotten right and the hardcore player which they are severely lacking on. While the hardcore players ego might get in the way 9 out of 10 times, they are still needed to keep the game flowing.

Have to agree on the shallow PvE. When half the dungeon runs I have ever been on boiled down to skipping, or glitching, content I was done trying. WvW is all I really bother with besides the daily chest farming (thank you guildwarstemple.com). Now, if they could rework that to bring it up to oldschool DAoC standards we would have a game I would be playing for years. GW2 truly has some of the worst PvE I have come across outside of F2P asian MMOs.

Boasting end game being the entire game sounds awesome. It really isn’t and that is where the game is the weakest. At 80 there is nothing to do except WvW. Without an ample way to get a group (group finder) in this game it’s rather pointless to do dungeons. Spamming an LFG all day is boring. At least I can run around in other games and do things while I wait for my queue.

Using a site IS NOT the way I or many people want to find a group. The game should support itself with the correct tools.

Deified.7520:

Firegoth.6427:

Look, not coming here to defend the game, but you don’t realize that Arenanet’s business model revolves around fresh updates every month, bring the old and new players alike back to the game.

There will always be new turnover of players, I don’t care if Bob the mighty stopped playing, since he will be replaced by Joe the invincible whom will be replaced by Mike the Warrior.

And I promise you, I PROMISE, that you and all the complainers will buy any new expansion that will come out as soon as it does.
Why?

• Because you love to complain
• Because you love venting
• Because you think you deserve more
  But you won’t admit that you won’t be able to stop playing this game every time a new interesting content will come out. And this is how Arenanet will keep this game alive, because you won’t quit, not 100%, not ever.

Snip

Like I said, I’m not here to defend the game, I was merely stating my opinion about most of the unsatisfied players.
There will always be a reason for them to come back.

I also feel that Anet been lying to us blatantly, and I play the game for my own reasons though. I’ll even tell you more than that –
I’ve quit the game myself for 2 months and came back because of SAB, hey I’m only human and couldn’t resist the 8 bit innovative idea. One thing lead to another and here I am working on another legendary that keeps me playing for now.

When a new expansion will come out, the curiosity of many players who felt the game was lacking will trigger again, why? Because some will hope for new changes, new classes, new areas to enjoy, maybe and probably new mechanics that will cater more to their liking.

Hell, it’s a one time fee so why not? Most of us will admit that we got our $60 worth out of the game long ago, and I doubt the next expansion will fail to give us the same satisfaction to that point at least.

coming back to a game you decided to “quit” is not a weakness.
Curiosity is a strong feeling, and it is hard to completely put down a game that gives you 100% free access to all of its content with a one time fee.
You never really quit, just taking a break until you become interested again.

Firegoth.6427:

Deified.7520:

Morrigan.2809:

Deified.7520:

I agree with most of what he said, it seems when they made this game they were thinking something along the lines of…

“lets take the Guild Wars universe, and make it “appeal” to a more casual audience".

I think this resulted in some major problems that the game is experiencing now. The build meta is boring and unexciting. Everything feels really shallow. This game keeps making me think it was designed for casual players and that playing it hardcore is something you weren’t supposed to do. Why do I think this? Remember at release how there was little to nothing to do once you got to the end. The personal story wasn’t challenging at all and there was little to no endgame. So they start introducing time locked content with dailies, guild missions, diminishing returns, etc. It is like they weren’t anticipating so many people would try to play it hardcore and are attempting to slow players down.

I don’t believe this can possibly be news for you but yes the game was designed for more casual play hence the huge world, downscaling, business model and anti farming methods.
What completely blows my mind is that some people still don’t seem to realise this.

The game is not shallow- it is very well designed.
It does not lack content or “endgame” it is filled with it from Queensdale to Orr.

What it does not have is a game that magically starts once you hit cap- that forces you to grind levels so that you can get to the top, be the top dog and have the best stats or whatever it is that floats the boat of “hardcore players”

As for shallow- this is actually hilarious because if “hardcore” players were not busy rushing to where ever it is they go, maybe they would actually take a look at the world around them.
Gods I have been playing since the betas and I still see stuff I have never seen before
Don’t get me started on combat- someone wrote a really nice guide at some stage- go read it

Yes and as we can tell all this endgame content is working, right? It is not like half the zones have little to no people in them. Most population is in WvW, farming in cursed shore, or LA. Oh, the good ol hardcore players rush too much? Yeah that is a good argument, it worked amazingly well for star wars the old republic. You can get snotty and upset if you want, but there’s plenty of evidence in game to find that this game is pretty shallow in a lot. Don’t get me wrong, I got my moneys worth with this game. However, in the aspect of an MMORPG it starts out good, then once you get to the end game there’s nothing really to do. DE need to reward players more once they reach 80 (rares are all fine, but with a TP that has items 50g + and players making 100g+ off of flipping the market or farming CoF, it doesn’t suffice in the economy). DE need to effect the world more instead of just uncontesting a waypoint, like promised. Fractals need to be reworked to not seem so much like a treadmil. Honestly, doing fractals to get ascended gear to do more fractals…really?

I’m done ranting and I wont argue with you any further, just saying I’ve seen your argument a thousand times. I saw it with swtor, APB, and the secret world, and those all were considered quite poor, resorting to f2p and cash shops to try to recover their players (which worked for the most part).

Look, not coming here to defend the game, but you don’t realize that Arenanet’s business model revolves around fresh updates every month, bring the old and new players alike back to the game.

There will always be new turnover of players, I don’t care if Bob the mighty stopped playing, since he will be replaced by Joe the invincible whom will be replaced by Mike the Warrior.

And I promise you, I PROMISE, that you and all the complainers will buy any new expansion that will come out as soon as it does.
Why?

• Because you love to complain
• Because you love venting
• Because you think you deserve more
  But you won’t admit that you won’t be able to stop playing this game every time a new interesting content will come out. And this is how Arenanet will keep this game alive, because you won’t quit, not 100%, not ever.

I mostly agree with this, but it’s basically 60% of the complainers that do this, the other 40% are actually intelligent and will quit when they say they will. I am fortunately one of the 40% and I saw ahead of time that this game was going into a direction I didn’t want to go, so I left along with many of my guild members/friends.

Some players play MMO’s incessantly, and expect the game to hold their attention for months or years of play that consumes much or all of their free time. To facilitate this style of play, MMO’s create situations in which players will repeat the same content over and over in pursuit of something, whether it be prestige, better numbers or looks. Whether an individual MMO’s version of this repeat play cycle will captivate a particular player will determine whether s/he stays or goes. That said, no MMO will appeal to everyone.

As popular as the big dog is, there are people who find its gear progression and raid system a massive time sink that provides fun for 1-2 run-throughs of a new instance but forces ad nauseam repetition to be able to “progress” to the next cycle. I know, because I’m one of them. It’s just a more complicated version of a F2P MMO’s grind mobs to level up so you can grind more mobs to level up again.

Just so, GW2’s open world content, dungeons, PvP modes and living story are not going to fill the needs of some players, whether they were expecting something different or want to play it like a more traditional MMO with all that entails. That’s OK, though. Take a break. Come back later if something new in the game catches your fancy. We’ll be here.

Mathias.9657 and Galtrix.7369.
Please read my 2nd post (above Mathias.9657 ‘s)
I feel that you didn’t go through it when you posted since it’s on the 2nd page.

Also, the fact that you’re still here posting, only strengthens my point.

r z.7261:

The PvE in GW2 is very shallow and very easy. I can spam 1 while watching TV, not even looking at my screen and not die.

I’m starting to agree. The challenge it seems tends to be using the dodge button to avoid “one shot” mechanics and using the dodge button to get out of red circles. Just dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge…. and dodge a bit more; all while everyone pretty much goes full throttle dps.

As it stands, I like it – but I see this getting old after a few months, tbh.

Deified.7520:

Firegoth.6427:

Look, not coming here to defend the game, but you don’t realize that Arenanet’s business model revolves around fresh updates every month, bring the old and new players alike back to the game.

There will always be new turnover of players, I don’t care if Bob the mighty stopped playing, since he will be replaced by Joe the invincible whom will be replaced by Mike the Warrior.

And I promise you, I PROMISE, that you and all the complainers will buy any new expansion that will come out as soon as it does.
Why?

• Because you love to complain
• Because you love venting
• Because you think you deserve more
  But you won’t admit that you won’t be able to stop playing this game every time a new interesting content will come out. And this is how Arenanet will keep this game alive, because you won’t quit, not 100%, not ever.

Yeah I might buy the expansions, I might not. It depends on how much they change. Why do I and others like to complain (not that I speak for everyone)? No it isn’t because we love venting or thinking we deserve more, it is because they made this game look amazing and promise a lot in trailers and upon release it was nothing like the trailers.

The manifesto trailer is the main reasoning behind why I complain. I wouldn’t complain if they didn’t create a trailer that really didn’t reflect the game.

Example 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLFAC73F8A4D894531&v=FU1JUwPqzQY#t=39s

This game has nothing that “we loved” about guild wars 1. Only the lore is still in here.
I wont lie the new event system is kinda in there and kind of isn’t. I found many events that you do are very basic (collect X items, kill X monsters) while the really cool ones are hardly done or there are very few in the world. Look at seraph assault in harathi and orgre wars, they’re almost like mirror images of each other. Capture these areas ->kill these monsters -> destroy these buildings -> kill the “leader”.

The combat is the only thing I find remotely better than other MMOs.

Example 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLFAC73F8A4D894531&v=FU1JUwPqzQY#t=90s

You dont want players to grind? Look at legendaries. Look at any item that looks cool (You need 250 of X T6 mat). I’d love to get out there and do more events and explore the world and feel like a hero, but they just dont do that. Leveling consist of running from heart to heart doing occasional basic events. DE hardly every change the world as promised. The bosses now respawn 3 hours later instead of 10 mins later.

Example 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLFAC73F8A4D894531&v=FU1JUwPqzQY#t=145s

Cause and effect? I see no decision making at all, I hardly see towns that remember me. There are a few at the start but they quickly diminish. I don’t see these characters again. When I do a dynamic event, I don’t feel like I’ve done anything they promised. I just see a bunch of monsters despawn only to respawn again in an hour or so. The meta events should the main thing to do this, but they don’t. I just took down a huge dragon and I go to the nearby town and they act like nothing happened, either saying scripted text or just not acknowledging what happened.

There are so many cool areas in the world and so much they could have done with these events and how the players affect the world, instead it feels like they started taking shortcuts and rushing the game. Going against a large portion of what they promised (Fractals are the embodiment of grinding practically), so if a company makes a trailer that promises a lot and they go back on even one of those promises, I think I do have a right to complain because I feel like they pulled a fast one.

Mostly what i think as well, i kinda can’t believe people cannot see how much they completely changed direction from that video/ideals…

I didn’t expect a perfect game but it would have been nice if they at least followed what they said… and would it have been so hard to add some of what was loved in GW1 too GW2 like dual classes, a lot more skills/skill captures, gods that were fun, story worth following etc..

This GW2 is fun, shallow fun for short bursts, but it really has no longevity unlike its predecessor did..

Aeonblade.8709:

Uruz Six.6594:

Zelthios.5902:

You’re implying the holy trinity was a bad thing.

I’m stating the trinity is not for everyone.

This is probably true, but like I said in a post a few weeks ago, if you aren’t going to use the trinity, have a viable alternative. Having most of the players stack Berserker gear and hope they kill things before they die is not a replacement for a balanced combat system imo :P

To each their own as you said.

I don’t know where you get the statistics that most people stack beserker gear. Most people who play MMOs are casual. Half them probably dont’ know the difference. Most people don’t do research at all, pick up stuff they like the sound of and just play the game. That’s what most people very likely do.

The loud dungeon running forum majority don’t even all use berserker gear. Only a certain type of player does..the efficienty player. The min/maxer. I’m pretty sure this isn’t the majority of the player base.

Most of the people who think like you might. I play just fine. One more dungeon path to dungeon master…and I don’t wear berserker gear. I tried a berzerker warrior, didn’t enjoy it at all, and never looked back.

And you know, some people, even a lot of people, still play games for enjoyment.

sweet jesus TC read my mind. Well said and i agree on everything, especially build variety.

I missed this earlier and didn’t have time to respond until today. Since you put forward an honest and useful effort to actually discuss the points I made, I think it deserves a reply:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I disagree that all of PvE is shallow. Yes, the main story could use some work. It wasn’t as in depth or as immersive as it could have been. However, the little side stories and subplots you can find around the world, and even the living story elements do have depth. The living story especially, I can’t wait to see where they go with it, as there are so many paths it COULD take. Finding the addition of true cinematics in the living story was really nice. Were they the best cinematics they’ve ever done? No. Overly long? No. But they are a step in the right direction, and I can’t wait to see more of it.

I agree that there are certainly some side stories that have a measure of depth.

Correct me if I’m wrong, however, but I recall the personal story being billed as a rather large component of the PvE, and it does seem to actually play a large role in immersing a player in the lore and world of Tyria. There are some RPG stories that I’ve played over three times through because they were so enjoyable. I think the general consensus about the personal story is that it’s almost bearable the first time.

Great stories are told again and again; great stories in games are played again and again. GW2 could have great stories, but it doesn’t have those yet.

I’m not sure what could be done to recover that save an expansion. I don’t see the major, central story content being salvaged by the living story.

Admittedly, I have not leveled all of the professions to 80, nor do I spend hours and hours in pvp, but from what I have played, I don’t generally find one weapon set / skill set being glaring better than another. There are some skills that need individual tweaking, but that’s pretty typical of games in general.

I don’t mean to be dismissive or insulting with what I’m about to say, but those who have invested a great deal of time in the PvP tend to say otherwise, especially with respect to one (maybe two?) builds being viable and I think they have good reason to believe as much.

I tend to take the judgments of the PvP community more seriously on this issue than others given that the main enjoyment of any PvP oriented player of the game comes from a well balanced and interesting meta (and, of course, combat mechanics). If they are not satisfied, then the game likely suffers from balance and depth problems.

On this point, the number of concurrent players in sPvP speaks for itself. If that were insufficient, there are a number of top GW1 players who have raised concerns about the current state of the game for several months now.

This spills over to PvE, of course, since dungeon/content design is limited by the best a system has to offer. This is ultimately why I still retain the judgment that the PvE is shallow; encounters are limited by the skill system on which they are designed around.

All in all, it seems like there are just as many that like things as they are, as there are that feel as you do, to some extent anyway. Am I saying there are no issues? Not at all. I’m simply saying that I don’t think they’re as bad as you seem to think they are.

I think my position has changed a small amount since I originally wrote this thread. Ensign’s comment resonated with me; I do think the game will continue, but not in a way that will make it the classic it could have been. Now the game caters to PvE casuals and whales. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is certainly a serious disappointment with how the game was marketed. I feel in particular for the competitive PvP community, especially those who came from GW1 expecting the same, high-level competition they experienced in the first game. It simply doesn’t exist here, and it looks unlikely to change given the fundamental deficiencies in class and ability design.

As a side note, I think if the PvP had launched as it was marketed (“e-sports”)—in depth, strategic, exceptionally balanced, meaningful leaderboard, really fun (i.e., more than one wearisome game mode), etc., etc.—then many of the complaints on these forums would never have been felt, let alone expressed. There would be much more to do at 80 (what is more interesting than playing competitively against the smartest challenges possible—the human mind?) and so players would have something fun to do while they waited for other PvE content to be developed.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

I agree that there are certainly some side stories that have a measure of depth.

Correct me if I’m wrong, however, but I recall the personal story being billed as a rather large component of the PvE, and it does seem to actually play a large role in immersing a player in the lore and world of Tyria. There are some RPG stories that I’ve played over three times through because they were so enjoyable. I think the general consensus about the personal story is that it’s almost bearable the first time.

Great stories are told again and again; great stories in games are played again and again. GW2 could have great stories, but it doesn’t have those yet.

I’m not sure what could be done to recover that save an expansion. I don’t see the major, central story content being salvaged by the living story.

I don’t think the story itself is that much more terrible than any in the GW1 universe, but I think the way they approached giving it to us may have hurt it. Large gaps between accessible pieces, and the pieces themselves presented in their new way weren’t precisely my cup of tea. I very much miss the cut scenes from the original GW1. It was a nice surprise to see them start to add these (even if small) to the living story, let us hope that continues.

As for saving the personal story via an expansion, its possible. Their first attempt at storytelling with Prophecies fell pretty flat too, but got better with Factions, Nightfall, and EotN, perhaps this is their stumbling block. I have simply opted for a ‘wait and see’ approach at this point.

I don’t mean to be dismissive or insulting with what I’m about to say, but those who have invested a great deal of time in the PvP tend to say otherwise, especially with respect to one (maybe two?) builds being viable and I think they have good reason to believe as much.

I tend to take the judgments of the PvP community more seriously on this issue than others given that the main enjoyment of any PvP oriented player of the game comes from a well balanced and interesting meta (and, of course, combat mechanics). If they are not satisfied, then the game likely suffers from balance and depth problems.

On this point, the number of concurrent players in sPvP speaks for itself. If that were insufficient, there are a number of top GW1 players who have raised concerns about the current state of the game for several months now.

This spills over to PvE, of course, since dungeon/content design is limited by the best a system has to offer. This is ultimately why I still retain the judgment that the PvE is shallow; encounters are limited by the skill system on which they are designed around.

I have a strong opinion of pvp players, one that would probably be offensive to …well..100% of them. Due mainly to my pvp experiences in GW1, and then a little bit in other games. As such, I tend to avoid pvp as it might make me feel slightly homicidal. Thus why I dont spend hours and hours in it. I do play it, I just don’t mainstream it, which is probably why I don’t see the balance issues.

I think my position has changed a small amount since I originally wrote this thread. Ensign’s comment resonated with me; I do think the game will continue, but not in a way that will make it the classic it could have been. Now the game caters to PvE casuals and whales. There’s nothing inherently wrong with that, but it is certainly a serious disappointment with how the game was marketed. I feel in particular for the competitive PvP community, especially those who came from GW1 expecting the same, high-level competition they experienced in the first game. It simply doesn’t exist here, and it looks unlikely to change given the fundamental deficiencies in class and ability design.

As a side note, I think if the PvP had launched as it was marketed (“e-sports”)—in depth, strategic, exceptionally balanced, meaningful leaderboard, really fun (i.e., more than one wearisome game mode), etc., etc.—then many of the complaints on these forums would never have been felt, let alone expressed. There would be much more to do at 80 (what is more interesting than playing competitively against the smartest challenges possible—the human mind?) and so players would have something fun to do while they waited for other PvE content to be developed.

I think if they had given themselves another year before launch that they would have been better off. They still had a lot to do, and have been doing quite a bit, though most people tend to ignore that they are doing anything. Still, I think with time and patience we may see them try to get back to their manifesto, we may see it come close to what we hoped for (what it was marketed as), but maybe not. I’ll hang around and see, I’m in no rush to run away.

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I have a strong opinion of pvp players, one that would probably be offensive to …well..100% of them. Due mainly to my pvp experiences in GW1, and then a little bit in other games. As such, I tend to avoid pvp as it might make me feel slightly homicidal. Thus why I dont spend hours and hours in it. I do play it, I just don’t mainstream it, which is probably why I don’t see the balance issues.

Certainly PvP communities can be full of jerks, and I recall being shamed in GW1 PvP often enough for making any small error or mistake.

That said, this arrogance comes from a pride and knowledge of the game.

The sPvP forum is often a useful measure of the current state of the game’s balance and build diversity. For example, several posts in this thread accurately sum up the problems with depth in gameplay in GW2:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Former-rank-1-GvG-GW1-talks-GW2-competitive/

I pretty much totally agree with the OP, not as a criticism of the game, but as a critique of its longevity. GW2 has many fantastic design elements, but the combination of sparse content and lack of build variety is a serious blow to its long-term appeal.

I hope to see them focus on expanding both, but unfortunately it looks like they’re hog-tied to focusing all their development efforts on the living world concept.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

That said, this arrogance comes from a pride and knowledge of the game.

Knowledgeable or not, it’s still no excuse for being a kitten.

Sadly, there are as many offenders that are not knowledgeable as their are that are and it’s the general attitude towards players that aren’t “born awesome” or don’t do only pvp that has really turned me off to it. Which is sad, because I am very competitive by nature (my husband blames this on my being female lol) and I think I would enjoy pvp on some level. Goodness knows I loved AB, FA, and JQ in GW1 (to the point where [some] people knew my name, it was kinda neat at times….reaaaaally sucked at others), but I just can’t deal with the kittens….

I was raised knowing the value of sportsman like conduct. Not the crap that passes for sportsmanship these days. Parents should be appalled and ashamed!

There’s game bashing and there’s reporting ongoing problems that people point out in well thought out threads on these forums brought on by unfulfulled prelaunch promises and post launch mismanagement which is no one’s fault but NCsoft and Anet. It’s not the forum poster’s fault that these issues exist.

That being said I completely agree with OP on the lack of PVE focus, we got nothing but talk prelaunch about a massive DE/meta undertaking post launch which never occurred. We’ve had an experiment of temporary content which hardly filled the months of wait time between the patch days for the content.

As far as the build diversity, yes they just recently separated the coding/behaviors between some of the balance adjustments and this will lead to better balance patches in the future, however, they have months of damage to repair in PVE that has lead to a lack of build diversity. Instead of being nerf heavy like they did with kit refinement for example they should have been buff heavy like what’s needed for gadgets on engineers (which is the entire reason they nerfed kit refinement in the first place I’ve read).

They’ve got a serious amount of work to do to fix the months of problems they’ve created on top of the ones that mismanagement has kept them from fixing some of which were from the betas.

And people posting nonsense about it not being real or everything’s fine isn’t going to solve the problems that have been lingering in this game for almost a year now.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I was raised knowing the value of sportsman like conduct. Not the crap that passes for sportsmanship these days. Parents should be appalled and ashamed!

I totally agree. I hope it didn’t seem as if I was excusing or justifying such behavior!

I do agree that build diversity sucks in this game. And with every patch, anet manages to kill at least one or two builds for at least one class (engineer has lost a LOT of good builds since February).