Guild Wars 2

While might’s main problem is in PvP, in which celestial amulet stats should’ve been nerfed first imo, I think they were trying to kill two birds with one stone here, as lowering how much dps players can put out in pve will make the content harder/mechanics more relevant. I realize this won’t effect speed runners much as they will still be good and it just adds a little more time, but in general for people who don’t play meta builds with high knowledge of bosses and stack boons, lowering the overall potential damage for them adds a little bit of a harder time. I realize it probably doesn’t help make things harder, but it also doesn’t harm as much as well adding a few seconds to runs.

L Step.8659:

While might’s main problem is in PvP, in which celestial amulet stats should’ve been nerfed first imo, I think they were trying to kill two birds with one stone here, as lowering how much dps players can put out in pve will make the content harder/mechanics more relevant. I realize this won’t effect speed runners much as they will still be good and it just adds a little more time, but in general for people who don’t play meta builds with high knowledge of bosses and stack boons, lowering the overall potential damage for them adds a little bit of a harder time. I realize it probably doesn’t help make things harder, but it also doesn’t harm as much as well adding a few seconds to runs.

why dont make the enemies just hit harder?… Would be the obvios choice…but whatever

‘Special case’ solutions like PvE/PvP splits for skills are actually far less easy than you might think — or, more accurately, they might be easy for the designer, but they actually make things significantly harder for programmers and QA guys.

Here’s something I might have considered in the same situation:

“Might: Boon. +1.75% outgoing power damage. +1.75% of power to condition damage. +1.75% companion damage. Stacks intensity.”?

In PvP, this directly hits the ‘problem’ builds. At the same time, that would actually be a buff in PvE — anyone who runs with 2000 power gets the original +35 bonus per stack, and players with more power than that get even larger bonuses.

I don’t particularly mind that, because I don’t think that the issues in this game’s PvE come from people being able to pump out too much DPS.

Basaltface.2786:

L Step.8659:

While might’s main problem is in PvP, in which celestial amulet stats should’ve been nerfed first imo, I think they were trying to kill two birds with one stone here, as lowering how much dps players can put out in pve will make the content harder/mechanics more relevant. I realize this won’t effect speed runners much as they will still be good and it just adds a little more time, but in general for people who don’t play meta builds with high knowledge of bosses and stack boons, lowering the overall potential damage for them adds a little bit of a harder time. I realize it probably doesn’t help make things harder, but it also doesn’t harm as much as well adding a few seconds to runs.

why dont make the enemies just hit harder?… Would be the obvios choice…but whatever

I never said I agreed or thought their reasoning was good :P

hybrid.5027:

Cuddy.6247:

Purple Miku.7032:

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay.

They’ve been alienating people who don’t want to optimize their gameplay for whatever reason (sake of fun-to-use skills, weapons, etc.) in PvE for every release in Season 2. Now that a change might actually effect the dungeon speedclear crowd the DPS enthusiasts are upset about alienation?

This thread is a joke and should be locked.

You must not have been paying attention to the last few balance patches. It’s understandable, but not acceptable, to have such a myopic viewpoint.

Feature patch 1: FGS nerf, ferocity nerf, stacking sigil nerf
Feature patch 2: specific skill nerfs, strength rune nerfs

None of these things affected Johnny Staff Guard. In fact, casual staff guardians in clerics gear have received nothing but buffs for the last several balance patches.

Disingenuous at its best. Put the staff guardian in any of the Living World updates and contemplate on its performance. They’ve been alienating non optimized players since the vanilla game and doing little to address any core mechanics that make the “balances” valueless.

Windsagio.1340:

Rauderi.8706:

Windsagio.1340:

Basaltface.2786:

i guess high damage is just too confusing… oh well there goes 100 gold in runes…

Oh the hyperbole.

Might isn’t destroyed, it’s 15% less effective (give or take). Having a complete might stack is still massively valuable to any group content.

And given how much Might contributes to the typical ‘zerk set-up, it’s maybe a 3-5% loss on high-end damage. Some of the above comments are right; the Might shift hurts defense/healing (and condi in that regard) builds more than damage-optimized builds.

Still, that’s some hefty qq for what amounts to a little damage loss.

That’s a pretty big stretch, I’m prone to think that you’re at the point where any change will be interpreted by you to support your position in the all-important (actually utterly insgnificant and silly) meta argument.

?? how is it a stretch?

The builds with the most power innately will be affected the least by the changes in a static amount of additional power. It’s simply math and percentages.

Blinding yourself to basic math because you don’t like meta is being kinda silly don’t ya think?

Either way, the only way this really affects me is that now when I screw up and miss a blast of might it’s ~15% less of a concern

L Step.8659:

Basaltface.2786:

L Step.8659:

While might’s main problem is in PvP, in which celestial amulet stats should’ve been nerfed first imo, I think they were trying to kill two birds with one stone here, as lowering how much dps players can put out in pve will make the content harder/mechanics more relevant. I realize this won’t effect speed runners much as they will still be good and it just adds a little more time, but in general for people who don’t play meta builds with high knowledge of bosses and stack boons, lowering the overall potential damage for them adds a little bit of a harder time. I realize it probably doesn’t help make things harder, but it also doesn’t harm as much as well adding a few seconds to runs.

why dont make the enemies just hit harder?… Would be the obvios choice…but whatever

I never said I agreed or thought their reasoning was good :P

well rather then crippling people they really just should “de-cripple” or rather said buff the enemies. Its (im pretty sure about it) a lot easier to balance cause enemies dont really use builds or unforseen tactics that surface after a month or 2 of playing. Make that ghost over there (for example) hit 25% harder, if he blocks he gets retailiation and done, maybe some extra health…or other buffs and done. So easy.. but whatever… im not an a-net dev…but man if i would have anything to say somebody would get the belt…just sayin

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Rauderi.8706:

Windsagio.1340:

Basaltface.2786:

i guess high damage is just too confusing… oh well there goes 100 gold in runes…

Oh the hyperbole.

Might isn’t destroyed, it’s 15% less effective (give or take). Having a complete might stack is still massively valuable to any group content.

And given how much Might contributes to the typical ‘zerk set-up, it’s maybe a 3-5% loss on high-end damage. Some of the above comments are right; the Might shift hurts defense/healing (and condi in that regard) builds more than damage-optimized builds.

Still, that’s some hefty qq for what amounts to a little damage loss.

That’s a pretty big stretch, I’m prone to think that you’re at the point where any change will be interpreted by you to support your position in the all-important (actually utterly insgnificant and silly) meta argument.

?? how is it a stretch?

The builds with the most power innately will be affected the least by the changes in a static amount of additional power. It’s simply math and percentages.

Blinding yourself to basic math because you don’t like meta is being kinda silly don’t ya think?

Either way, the only way this really affects me is that now when I screw up and miss a blast of might it’s ~15% less of a concern

It’s a stretch because heavy healing/defense setups are less likely to stack might anyways which makes them less effected (since raw increase is per-stack)

It’s also a stretch because most content is simply too easy for it to matter either way.

~~~

Saying it ‘hurts’ one build style over another is silly. Stacking might is still very powerful, and all content can still be done with or without stacking might, and most content is so easy as to be build-agnostic.

And don’t get me wrong, this somewhat negatively effects my experience, I usually run with groups that are very efficient at might-stacking, so our kills are going to be slower.

Trying to weasel in these side arguments as if they’re somehow persuasive or even relevant when the main issue is that it’s going to slow down your own runs is disingenuous at best.

Welcome to the world of being an online gamer, in general. ALL gaming companies nerf whatever is popular and easy to play. If its too easy, people stop playing it. I don’t agree with the might nerf, but you can’t convince’m otherwise. Yer wastin yer time complainin about it.

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

Purple Miku.7032:

Lord Kuru.3685:

They don’t balance for WvW — at all… so that’s not it.

My guess: they’re embarrassed their dungeons get breezed through. But that’s because of how many times they’ve been run, which is a result of how old the dungeons are combined with the lack of new dungeon content.

Haven’t you seen the loads of threads demanding nerfs to celestial d/d eles?

Prior to the removal of the professions balance forum there’d be a new thread about it popping up nearly every day, sometimes with hundreds of posts. I am certain this was the primary reason for them to look into toning down might/battle sigils because these were what were arguably the reasons for them being so good, based off of most of the threads.

In PvP-related situations they were (and currently are) able to use completely defensive traits yet still deal average to decent damage due to being able to stack might effectively.

It seems abundantly clear to me that this is the primary reason for the upcoming changes. While it is in the end just speculation I still haven’t really seen any other convincing arguments to lead me to believe otherwise.

Well then maybe they could have addressed the problem more directly with a nerf to celestial stats. But then again, this is Anet, so an indirect nerf does fit their MO.

Aeolus.3615:

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

What do you mean by this? This change means nothing to the balance of zerker to non zerk gear.

And as much as Windsagio feels it’s irrelevant, again, I’ll point out that this might nerf hurts non zerk more than zerk

If they nerfed the total stats on zerk by 15%, that’d be an adjustment between the balance of zerk vs everything else, but nerfing might is nerfing active gameplay. It’s counter is passive play, if it’s making anything stronger in a relative way it’s making those who simply don’t give a crap about buffing themselves relative power because those who do are now weakened, but gear and stats mean nothing in that regard.

Jerus.4350:

Aeolus.3615:

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

What do you mean by this? This change means nothing to the balance of zerker to non zerk gear.

And as much as Windsagio feels it’s irrelevant, again, I’ll point out that this might nerf hurts non zerk more than zerk

If they nerfed the total stats on zerk by 15%, that’d be an adjustment between the balance of zerk vs everything else, but nerfing might is nerfing active gameplay. It’s counter is passive play, if it’s making anything stronger in a relative way it’s making those who simply don’t give a crap about buffing themselves relative power because those who do are now weakened, but gear and stats mean nothing in that regard.

Let me try another shot for you; yes zerk loses less % of damage, but to repeat, you’re probably not going to lose the encounter either way and non-zerk groups are more likely to be non-optimized and lose less due to the ‘per stack’ nature of the change.

As far as practical effects, zerk groups tend to be dependent on speed to survive because they’re more reliant on active defenses to keep alive. Losing speed hurts zerk groups a lot more because they’re more likely to wipe out if the fight goes long. They’re also (often) more likely to stack, which makes an active defense failure more disasterous.

I wonder how many of the people that complain here, are the same persons that
always complain that everything is too easy and that they want harder content
and moar challenge.

Beldin.5498:

I wonder how many of the people that complain here, are the same persons that
always complain that everything is too easy and that they want harder content
and moar challenge.

All this does is make things more tedious. Not challenging.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Beldin.5498:

I wonder how many of the people that complain here, are the same persons that
always complain that everything is too easy and that they want harder content
and moar challenge.

All this does is make things more tedious. Not challenging.

Mostly “moar challenge” turns out te be simply more annyoing in MMOs, since
people have no plan what they really want, or just want better exclusive reward
and in the end we get mobs with more HPs, that do more damage and have
more CCs .. and maybe some gimmicks .. however the result is mainly that it
takes looooooonger to kill a mob.

At that moment suddenly people may say the truth, that they didn’t wanted to need
loooonger to kill a mob .. that they in reality just wanted a faster way to get more
loot … and especially a way to get stuff that others can’t get.

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

I seriously doubt the might changes were brought on by dungeon runs. If they wanted to reduce the usefulness of might specific to dungeon & PvE groups, they’d probably have nerfed the blast finisher + fire field combination. (Since, iirc, that’s a key tactic for 25 AoE stacks)

Edit: I guess that’s not the focus of the topic. As to why not separate them: there’s a big push to keep things consistent between PvE & PvP, mostly for the sake of getting more PvE players into PvP. Confusion (like Retaliation) gets a pass because the hits / second that they are based on changes both drastically and obviously between the two formats.

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

Aeolus.3615:

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

What do you mean by this? This change means nothing to the balance of zerker to non zerk gear.

And as much as Windsagio feels it’s irrelevant, again, I’ll point out that this might nerf hurts non zerk more than zerk

If they nerfed the total stats on zerk by 15%, that’d be an adjustment between the balance of zerk vs everything else, but nerfing might is nerfing active gameplay. It’s counter is passive play, if it’s making anything stronger in a relative way it’s making those who simply don’t give a crap about buffing themselves relative power because those who do are now weakened, but gear and stats mean nothing in that regard.

Let me try another shot for you; yes zerk loses less % of damage, but to repeat, you’re probably not going to lose the encounter either way and non-zerk groups are more likely to be non-optimized and lose less due to the ‘per stack’ nature of the change.

As far as practical effects, zerk groups tend to be dependent on speed to survive because they’re more reliant on active defenses to keep alive. Losing speed hurts zerk groups a lot more because they’re more likely to wipe out if the fight goes long. They’re also (often) more likely to stack, which makes an active defense failure more disasterous.

I think you greatly underestimate the power of active defenses. You don’t need a fast kill to survive in zerk, some surely abuse it in lower level dungeons where you can kill things in a couple seconds, but proper use of active defenses will get you through just fine if that fails.

Either way, my point in that quote is that the reason the topic arose was a response to those people saying “heck yeah, screw the meta”, like always the knee jerk reactions of these people are screwing themselves over… well at least potentially, you may have a point in that they don’t care enough to stack might in the first place.

It’s pretty simple to understand.

Might stacking is a dominate strategy; “Path of least resistance” you might say; so they nerfed it to promote different approaches instead of buffing sub-optimal options and causing the ever so deadly “power creep”.

The nerf is pretty small anyway, and most of the players who care about might stacking will continue to do so. Stacking power will still be the best way to speed clear dungeons, and might will still be very powerful in general. This is only a 125 might loss at 25 stacks; very minor.

CONFUSION FOR PVE?

WHAT THE HELL.

Jerus.4350:

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

Aeolus.3615:

isnt it all about the high damage, lowers the risk, being a dps game does not have to mean we all play in zerkers, if so they are trying to find a balance for co-existence of all stats.

What do you mean by this? This change means nothing to the balance of zerker to non zerk gear.

And as much as Windsagio feels it’s irrelevant, again, I’ll point out that this might nerf hurts non zerk more than zerk

If they nerfed the total stats on zerk by 15%, that’d be an adjustment between the balance of zerk vs everything else, but nerfing might is nerfing active gameplay. It’s counter is passive play, if it’s making anything stronger in a relative way it’s making those who simply don’t give a crap about buffing themselves relative power because those who do are now weakened, but gear and stats mean nothing in that regard.

Let me try another shot for you; yes zerk loses less % of damage, but to repeat, you’re probably not going to lose the encounter either way and non-zerk groups are more likely to be non-optimized and lose less due to the ‘per stack’ nature of the change.

As far as practical effects, zerk groups tend to be dependent on speed to survive because they’re more reliant on active defenses to keep alive. Losing speed hurts zerk groups a lot more because they’re more likely to wipe out if the fight goes long. They’re also (often) more likely to stack, which makes an active defense failure more disasterous.

I think you greatly underestimate the power of active defenses. You don’t need a fast kill to survive in zerk, some surely abuse it in lower level dungeons where you can kill things in a couple seconds, but proper use of active defenses will get you through just fine if that fails.

Either way, my point in that quote is that the reason the topic arose was a response to those people saying “heck yeah, screw the meta”, like always the knee jerk reactions of these people are screwing themselves over… well at least potentially, you may have a point in that they don’t care enough to stack might in the first place.

Talking about the meta in reference to this change is absurd. It’s not about the meta, it’s about might specifically. Shoehorning in your (not literally you, Jerus, generic ‘your’) grudges and hangups about the ‘meta’ arguments is somewhere between meaningless and destructive.

Yes people don’t like it, no it doesn’t apply to the ‘meta’ argument.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

Windsagio.1340:

Let me try another shot for you; yes zerk loses less % of damage, but to repeat, you’re probably not going to lose the encounter either way and non-zerk groups are more likely to be non-optimized and lose less due to the ‘per stack’ nature of the change.

As far as practical effects, zerk groups tend to be dependent on speed to survive because they’re more reliant on active defenses to keep alive. Losing speed hurts zerk groups a lot more because they’re more likely to wipe out if the fight goes long. They’re also (often) more likely to stack, which makes an active defense failure more disasterous.

I think we’ve got a bit right on both accounts here. Point being that encounters will not likely be lost based on the might lost from this nerf.

If history and patterns are any indication of things to come, this nerf will affect most greatly one group; PvE Zerk Tryhards.

This group of players is generally everything that people complain about when they complain about Zerk Meta. They are the folks in DPS gear with a baseline understanding of the encounters who do rely on speed to complete. They waste dodges and spam skills without bothering to learn better rotations. I think these folks will continue to eat kitten with each passing nerf.

These are also the players I run into the most in LFG PuGing. Guild/Friend groups with skill and experience will likely go hardly affected. Non-Zerk players will also not really be affected much either since they hardly relied on their damage output to complete content. It will take them longer but it won’t be noticeably more difficult.

I wanted to bring this up before it devolved into some Meta vs. Non-meta debate with a lot of stored up rage on either side.

As long as this change FINALLY fixes the issue with Warrior GS skill 5 ‘Rush’ that has been around SINCE BEFORE RELEASE, then this coming patch is golden in my book. The rest of the changes look good too, but this particular issue that has been around since before release is long overdue for a real fix. crosses fingers for a bug fix almost 3 years in the making

I support this change wholeheartedly. The damage ceiling is just a little too high in the game currently. Negating fight mechanics with the simplistic strategy “kill faster” creates boring gameplay and discourages build diversity.

The challenge should come from a mix of how much damage you can put out and how well you can stay alive. Right now, it’s skewed a little too much toward the former.

Im not saying that the ability to pump out the highest possible damage shouldnt be rewarded (it should), just not quite as much as it currently is.

Blaeys.3102:

I support this change wholeheartedly. The damage ceiling is just a little too high in the game currently. Negating fight mechanics with the simplistic strategy “kill faster” creates boring gameplay and discourages build diversity.

The challenge should come from a mix of how much damage you can put out and how well you can stay alive. Right now, it’s skewed a little too much toward the former.

Im not saying that the ability to pump out the highest possible damage shouldnt be rewarded (it should), just not quite as much as it currently is.

If they wanted to fix this a big step would be to address what last april’s patch did with scaling. Things in lower level dungeons began to die MUCH faster. I believe someone figured out it was the way ferocity was scaling, but any way you look at it those dungeons became far too easy. Go up to the higher level dungeons and “kill it faster” isn’t going to save you.

Purple Miku.7032:

~snip~

Take a moment and realize that the news blog probably doesnt list all of the changes being made. Then also realize that even if might is a reduced boost, the “most optimal build” STAYS “the most optimal build.” You lose nothing in the end. So what if the enemies take one or two more hits to kill.

That’s not even the heart of the changes either. Almost the entirety of the profession changes listed are BUFFS in some way. The only one that really stood out as a nerf was the bleed ’nades for engi when built for specific encounters.

Blaeys.3102:

I support this change wholeheartedly. The damage ceiling is just a little too high in the game currently. Negating fight mechanics with the simplistic strategy “kill faster” creates boring gameplay and discourages build diversity.

The challenge should come from a mix of how much damage you can put out and how well you can stay alive. Right now, it’s skewed a little too much toward the former.

Im not saying that the ability to pump out the highest possible damage shouldnt be rewarded (it should), just not quite as much as it currently is.

What PvE mechanics are you referring to, specifically? I tend not to see people really try to max stacks of might outside of organized Teq and Wurm, not so much in dungeons/fractals anymore, and hardly ever at the other world bosses. If you’re just referring to specific events or dungeon speed run groups, then this nerf unfairly affects everyone to address a sub-group of players that you have the option not to join.

Tbh there are 3 important things that are gonna happen.
1. Heavily depending on might classes are gonna get a nerf
2. It’s more important to obtain a high power so knights/sentinel/celestial/cavalier etc will get nerfed in comparrison to base stat power armor such as soldiers/zerk etc
3. Duels gonna take longer

The keyproblems anet wanted to solve were cele might stacking being overpowered and PvE being to fast and easy. Instead of reworking PvP celestial amulet (which currently gives 37% more stats then other amulets) and giving more HP and attack to enemies they decided to be lazy as always and started reducing might effectiveness, debalancing the game and making a critical higher level tactics less important.

Anet just get rid of your LS fetish and start caring about your game, designate non developers to become aware of real problems and bugfixes that gw2 so desperately needs and start actually fixing things after 2 years of kittening up the game in every single way

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Then also realize that even if might is a reduced boost, the “most optimal build” STAYS “the most optimal build.” You lose nothing in the end. So what if the enemies take one or two more hits to kill.

To make such a statement, you must have done the math with respect to optimal Berserker-Assassin mixes for every class and build, and determined the current optimal gear will remain the future optimal gear.

Have you done this? Did you even consider it?

We are asking for balance between Condi and White Damage especially on pve. All we are getting are nerf after nerf on white damages, change to ferocity nerf and now might nerf.
Condi will still suck on pve because of the 25 stack cap, regardless.
The problem with quick encounter has never been the amount of damage output from players. It’s the scaling and npc mobs balance on pve that are next to garbage.
Guess what? after this nerf, zerk will still be the meta.
What next? nerf all Power stat across the board? lol

Pino.5209:

What next? nerf all Power stat across the board? lol

Anything is possible.

Pve skills should be different from pvp this is just dumb from the start

Condi damage also suffers from the nerf of might. GGWP.

You pve’ers seriously…you’re not even going to notice.

For PvP this change is bad.

Why do you assume the Might nerf was intended to be PVP only? That’s a pretty significant assumption

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

The tit for tat answer is that some people actually enjoy their time playing the game.

The serious answer is that most people don’t care that much about absolute time optimization. The difference simply isn’t so great.

Xillllix.3485:

15% nerf to might is more than the 10% damage trait buffs.

It’s not a small nerf, strength runes will probably no longer provide the best damage output.

Just like we had to scrap all our divinity runes, same thing will happen here when guilds make their new WvW/GvG meta.

They already don’t provide the best damage output. They were comparable to scholar’s for a short time when the damage boost was 7%, but when they were cut to 5%, they became inferior, and a niche for PS warriors, mightstacking elementalists, and hybrid builds.

This simply increases the already existent incentive to swap to full Scholar’s runes instead other than for those two exceptions. Hybrid builds just get a double nerf from both sides of the Might equation with no alternative to swap to.

Zui.9245:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Then also realize that even if might is a reduced boost, the “most optimal build” STAYS “the most optimal build.” You lose nothing in the end. So what if the enemies take one or two more hits to kill.

To make such a statement, you must have done the math with respect to optimal Berserker-Assassin mixes for every class and build, and determined the current optimal gear will remain the future optimal gear.

Have you done this? Did you even consider it?

Thieves and warriors are optimal on full berserker given that the full trait setups push both to ~80% before fury, or 100% critrate after, already. He’s probably speaking from that point of view.

Assassin vs Berserker on other classes that don’t have such (overpowered) traits is a complicated discussion, as Prec/Feroc affect reflections when Power does not, Power affects uncrittable targets when Prec/Feroc does not, and Prec affects sigil and trait procrate while power affects the effectiveness of some of those, but not others. Power vs Prec discussions cannot be separated from ‘what content you intend to do with the character’, and the point of optimisation changes drastically with that answer, going from 80% critrate builds to full berserker builds.

Malthurius.6870:

It’s pretty simple to understand.

Might stacking is a dominate strategy; “Path of least resistance” you might say; so they nerfed it to promote different approaches instead of buffing sub-optimal options and causing the ever so deadly “power creep”.

The nerf is pretty small anyway, and most of the players who care about might stacking will continue to do so. Stacking power will still be the best way to speed clear dungeons, and might will still be very powerful in general. This is only a 125 might loss at 25 stacks; very minor.

I believe you meant 125 power/condition, but that aside, this would be ‘major’ in the grand scheme of things as it is a greater effect than losing a food buff. A ‘minor’ thing is like the difference in stats other than base damage between the ascended and exotic tiers, or the difference in stats between using 5 power&agony infusions, and pure 5 agony infusions.

Windsagio.1340:

It’s a stretch because heavy healing/defense setups are less likely to stack might anyways which makes them less effected (since raw increase is per-stack)

It’s also a stretch because most content is simply too easy for it to matter either way.

The first is not true; the proportionate difference in the importance of might usually makes might stacking particularly important for those; I care a lot more for stacking might in my Guardian and Elementalist, which run Cleric/Sentinel and Celestial builds for WvW and fractal purposes, as otherwise their damage rates can be quite pathetic. Especially for cleric/sentinel – without might, while it is unkillable it also can’t kill anything in WvW at all.

Those that spec full power/damage tend to care less about might and more about CCs, which allow for the damage to actually get through a mob/player’s active defenses.

The second differs for each player, but it would be true for most people that this would even affect.

“Might: The power and condition damage provided by this boon have been reduced from 35 per stack to 30.”

Because nothing says “balance” like nerfing a system that’s already nerfed because it’s not designed properly.

Conditions don’t need nerfing in PVE on the contrary they need boosting severely because of the problems that stacking causes and the sheer lack of crit damage per DoT.

Xillllix.3485:

15% nerf to might is more than the 10% damage trait buffs.

It’s not a small nerf, strength runes will probably no longer provide the best damage output.

Just like we had to scrap all our divinity runes, same thing will happen here when guilds make their new WvW/GvG meta.

I was thinking about this earlier. I don’t think 15% is as significant as it seems. I mean its not technically 15% of your damage being nerfed. Think of where the big damage comes from = necros. They already have(in gvgs) some 2600 base power, with might(before) they had 3475. Now they’ll have 3350. Thats barely a difference in damage when your power is that high. I don’t really see the meta changing in gvg tbh.

Sube Dai.8496:

You pve’ers seriously…you’re not even going to notice.

For PvP this change is bad.

Ah . . . yeah, I’m thinking that after this nerf, the next time and I’m trying to solo down half a dozen mordrem in Silverwastes on my thief . . . I’ll notice.

ANet long ago made the (bad) decision to balance all parts of this game based on PvP. I’ve always believed this was a mistake, but done mostly to manage workload so I could accept it somewhat on that basis. And as a thief main I’ve endured their crappy “balance” nerfs ad nausem and still play the class. HOWEVER . . . If they are going to keep making even average mobs in PvE with better and better AI, who are also hard hitting hit point wells + condition spammers + buffers and healers . . . they should really reconsider balancing PvE separate from PvP.

it depends wether you’re used to be in a good teamsetup having perma 25 stacks of might up or not, for example ele sustaining 18 stacks of might including using his signet of battle is gonna result in a total loss of power of 4×35+14x5=210 power where necro often sustains less might stacks (lets say 10 stacks, 10×5=50 loss of power) on 3050 base power where the elementalist loses 210 power with a base power of 2750

NECRO
3050+30x10=3350
3050+35x10=3400
total dmge loss=1,5%

ELE
2750+14x30=3170
2750+18x35=3380
total dmge loss=6.2%

Comparing these 2 professions will already result in 5% extra dmge by necro compared to the ele, let alone the fact that non primary power builds will get nerfed even harder. making knights/cavalier/celestial less viable.

5% raw damage boost in WvW or GvG is huge and can definitely change the meta. Expect the soldier runes and beserker armor to show up more often.

the krytan assassin.9235:

5% raw damage boost in WvW or GvG is huge and can definitely change the meta. Expect the soldier runes and beserker armor to show up more often.

You might be right as to that it could change some class metas, though I disagree on the objective assumption that it is huge. Its significance is lessened by the fact that circumstance and opportunity both play significant roles in actually being able to deal damage.

If everyone was just standing opposite one another, immobile and trading blows in perfectly time synchronicity? Then the role of a ~5% reduction would be most noticeable over time, but not likely from single hit to single hit.

I’d posit that most people would not have even noticed such a reduction if nobody said anything, as its the aggregate impact, not the iterative impact, that will be identifiably affected.

The number we spit up are rather broadly random as it is. Nobody is going to hit something once iwith their burst and see 9,183 scroll and go “AHA THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN 9642 OMG I’VE BEEN NERFED!”. And that’s presuming a 5% base damage reduction, which this absolutely is not. This is a reduction of something that is already a fractional damage increase.

So we’re really looking more at something like seeing 9183 scroll and believing anyone’s going to go “THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN 9294! ER. MAH. FRIGGEN. GER.”

They’re not going to spam a x8 channel AoE and be likely to see a terribly noticeable difference in their integers at all.

It is both panicky and disingenuously spastic to presume that this ‘huge change’ will necessarily be a game changer. I simply cannot agree. The math does not imply any such necessity. I doubt the current metas would actually need to even be consulted to keep on keeping on with 98% of everyone never even noticing a thing.

But those that either can’t math or convince themselves that their whole game has been exploded by a gentle kiss from the nerf gods will argue contrary, and will probably continue to melt down over how much damage ’they’re being robbed of’ over the hundreds of runs/thousands of hours.

Simple fact is? Almost nobody will be significantly affected, and those that feel significantly affected will mostly have convinced themselves of the ‘significant’ part.

How is dealing lower numbers inherently more fun if other numbers are also lower? Your c*** isn’t shorter all of a sudden, someone just changed the numbering on the measuring stick.

I mean, sure, you’re weaker than before. But shouldn’t a better overall game balance be something you desire, if damage is what you enjoy? After all, in an unbalanced game, dealing high damage isn’t a result of player skill but of identifying and exploiting overpowered mechanics.

Encounters that require high might stacks on uncrittable targets will definitely feel the difference, even if this was a silent patch.

I’m looking at you, Tequatl/Triple Wurm phase I.

The Legendary Searing Effigy? Nope, don’t think anyone will notice.

Hayashi.3416:

Encounters that require high might stacks on uncrittable targets will definitely feel the difference, even if this was a silent patch.

I’m looking at you, Tequatl/Triple Wurm phase I.

The Legendary Searing Effigy? Nope, don’t think anyone will notice.

I think someone would have to do those encounters and crunch all the output numbers repeatedly to actually find the difference though. I don’t think it would be as tactile as most seem to be expecting. Those encounters are already chaos and we don’t exactly have abundances of things like damage meters to give us exacting data on every encounter.

I’m simply unconvinced that it will be as feel’able as some fear. I could be wrong.