Guild Wars 2

I don’t know why you guys even complain when you have to 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 what ever you do in PvE? Except in fractal 50 where you have to Jump, dodge sometimes AND 11111..

Given how some of the Teq kills I’ve been at barely proc chain-burn from the 75%-50% mark (that is, it goes invulnerable when its right foot moves), all of those near-fail attempts will now proc a shockwave, a whirlpool phase, and perhaps defense spawns.

The sub-50s are unlikely to have issues as all the ‘+x% damage below 50% hp’ traits will activate by then.

And it can be really bad for triple wurm, since people already do occasionally fail to decapitate wurms now, even with full food, sharpening stones, consumables and might applied.

Does Anet even take WvW into consideration when they decide to nerf things like this?

My guardian relies heavily on might, being a support, to have an ok output damage. The nerf will have a significant change in my gear, build and gameplay.

Perhaps the might nerf won’t have much influence in PvE, but sure will have in PvP and, especially, WvW. With the last years nerf, is getting harder and harder to find players using power build and is becoming infested with condition.

Anet addressed the problem with celestial ele, ok. How about the engineer using dire gear and perplexity runes? Why dire gear even exist in first place? It is quite obvious what they have been doing, nerfing white damage and pushing (buffing) more and more for condition.

Now the question is why when condition is broken in PvE. Shouldn’t they fix condition in PvE first?

Purple Miku.7032:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Overall a lot of the changes are positive, but we are once again seeing unjustifiably large damage nerfs for PvE because of changes that are inspired by PvP/WvW-related activity [-cough- d/d elementalists in celestial -cough-].

Might: The power and condition damage provided by this boon have been reduced from 35 per stack to 30.

If might’s efficacy is a problem in PvP, then why not do exactly what you did there with what you did with confusion…?

Confusion: The effect of condition damage on confusion has been increased by 33% in PvE only. This change does not affect PvP or WvW.

Why is this change not separated like the above?

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay. While I have no problem with changes, it’s just annoying to constantly see combat efficacy in PvE repeatedly decreased as a consequence of something completely irrelevant in another game mode.

Also:

Invigorating Precision: The health gain from this trait on a critical strike has been increased from 8% of damage dealt to 15%.
Dev note: This trait was very hard pressed to return health of much value, so we increased the amount of health rewarded by a significant percentage.

top kek

Seriously. Why aren’t balanced changes between PvP and PvE separated?

The only answer to the question is this : They want longer kill times in PVE across the board.
Otherwise I see no good reason the might nerf couldn’t have been split the same way the confusion buff was split. It’s basically in the same category when it comes to “confusing players about how their classes play in PVE vs PVP”.

Carighan.6758:

How is dealing lower numbers inherently more fun if other numbers are also lower? Your c*** isn’t shorter all of a sudden, someone just changed the numbering on the measuring stick.

I mean, sure, you’re weaker than before. But shouldn’t a better overall game balance be something you desire, if damage is what you enjoy? After all, in an unbalanced game, dealing high damage isn’t a result of player skill but of identifying and exploiting overpowered mechanics.

This is not the problem.

The problem is changing the whole game in order to address a problem in one part of the game.

Another thing I would like to address are the people saying “at most it’s a 5% nerf” or “big deal the boss will take 1-2 extra hits”.

The problem isn’t the small dps nerf ( call it 5% or what you will) that came with this patch. It’s the constant DPS nerfs that have been happening for the last 2 feature patches.

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Players who optimize will do so and adapt and keep going. Other players – not so much.

Hayashi.3416:

Thieves and warriors are optimal on full berserker given that the full trait setups push both to ~80% before fury, or 100% critrate after, already. He’s probably speaking from that point of view.

It sounds like you’re unaware that Warriors currently benefit from the head, chest, and legs being Assassin’s, and the rest being Berserker’s. I’m guessing you also haven’t done any math, but are just ballparking what you feel is possibly a correct answer and pretending like it must be correct?

azyume.6321:

Does Anet even take WvW into consideration when they decide to nerf things like this?

My guardian relies heavily on might, being a support, to have an ok output damage. The nerf will have a significant change in my gear, build and gameplay.

Perhaps the might nerf won’t have much influence in PvE, but sure will have in PvP and, especially, WvW. With the last years nerf, is getting harder and harder to find players using power build and is becoming infested with condition.

Anet addressed the problem with celestial ele, ok. How about the engineer using dire gear and perplexity runes? Why dire gear even exist in first place? It is quite obvious what they have been doing, nerfing white damage and pushing (buffing) more and more for condition.

Now the question is why when condition is broken in PvE. Shouldn’t they fix condition in PvE first?

One of the entire purposes of this change was because bunker builds were able to do much higher damage than intended for bunkers because of Might stacking, a full support build falls into the same category. If you’re running a full support build like it sounds like you are you aren’t supposed to be able to do decent damage, that’s the entire point of sacrificing Power for a different stat.

The only problem is that this change was done much later than it probably should have.

Harper.4173:

Carighan.6758:

How is dealing lower numbers inherently more fun if other numbers are also lower? Your c*** isn’t shorter all of a sudden, someone just changed the numbering on the measuring stick.

I mean, sure, you’re weaker than before. But shouldn’t a better overall game balance be something you desire, if damage is what you enjoy? After all, in an unbalanced game, dealing high damage isn’t a result of player skill but of identifying and exploiting overpowered mechanics.

This is not the problem.

The problem is changing the whole game in order to address a problem in one part of the game.

Another thing I would like to address are the people saying “at most it’s a 5% nerf” or “big deal the boss will take 1-2 extra hits”.

The problem isn’t the small dps nerf ( call it 5% or what you will) that came with this patch. It’s the constant DPS nerfs that have been happening for the last 2 feature patches.

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Players who optimize will do so and adapt and keep going. Other players – not so much.

While this change was finally prompted by the issues in PvP right now, that doesn’t mean they didn’t decide to use it to bring PvE more in line with what they wanted. When the ferocity change was announced it was announced as the first of more potential changes to bring damage in line with what was intended, and that they would be doing it in small pieces and watching the results rather than a couple huge sweeping changes all at once. They never said it would be the only change. Since this wasn’t split for just PvP (like the confusion change showed they were capable of doing) then clearly Anet felt was necessary to continue the adjustment to potential damage. The changes you are complaining about were done because the game developers felt things were not working as intended, so why would they compensate the damage nerfs to still allow the same kill times they were trying to adjust in the first place? The only real problem here is that they took almost two years to make these adjustments, but that is partially due to the devs not fully understanding their own combat system at launch (they only seem to be just recently really understanding it, which is fine it was something completely new) and the players over time finding more and more ways to maximize potential damage past what Anet intended.

No, the usage of triple signets already end up with 80% critrate after factoring in the Banner of Discipline. Please stow your condescension and get some experience in creating builds before you try to talk down to theorycrafters.

PS types that run FGJ and full-damage types that run signets, relying on ele buffers, are entirely different builds. The latter uses full berserker and scholar runes, the former uses occasionally full berserker and occasionally assassin-berserker mixes together with strength runes, depending on whether uncrittable objects are to be taken into consideration.

Hayashi.3416:

No, the usage of triple signets already end up with 80% critrate after factoring in the Banner of Discipline. Please stow your condescension and get some experience in creating builds before you try to talk down to theorycrafters.

PS types that run FGJ and full-damage types that run signets, relying on ele buffers, are entirely different builds. The latter uses full berserker and scholar runes, the former uses occasionally full berserker and occasionally assassin-berserker mixes together with strength runes, depending on whether uncrittable objects are to be taken into consideration.

56003 GS + Axe/Mace and 05063 Phalanx Strength are the two meta group play warrior builds at the moment. Neither even uses the Deep Strikes trait, instead opting for Rending Strikes because it’s vastly superior in group play (and actually, still very slightly superior in optimal solo play).

Perhaps for your own special snowflake non-optimal build what you’re saying is true. Unfortunately, it should have been fairly obvious that I was talking about meta builds. It should also be obvious that when we’re talking about an optimal mix of gear, we’re not talking about things that can’t be crit (which honestly, are a pretty minor amount of foes anyway), so bringing them up repeatedly in the context of things that can be crit doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

The tit for tat answer is that some people actually enjoy their time playing the game.

The serious answer is that most people don’t care that much about absolute time optimization. The difference simply isn’t so great.

Well, I’m sure since you have been absolutely optimizing your time you know from experience how little the difference will be? Tell me, what’s the time differential for a fotm 50? How about for a fotm 50 with a pug group where I’m the only one stacking might and the rest of the h group is doing little dps?

This isn’t the first time raw damage potential has been nerfed. It’s like the third or fourth at least. The game’s encounters haven’t changed so the only thing that has happened is that the meat sponges in this game are dragged out even further. I enjoy playing this game. But if the content continually begins to take longer and longer for no discernable reason, it ceases to be fun.

I mean, why not nerf max dps to 1? This change caters to the phiw people, by kneecapping the play efficiently people. It’s disgusting.

Erm, no. The most optimal for damage would be 66002 A/M V-X-XI, I-V-XIII, III, Truff.steak, relevant potion, scholar, air/night, heal-might-fury-disc-wbanner. I don’t know which universe you’re pulling your ‘meta group play builds’ from, but nobody I know running A/M damage specs ever uses fast hands (why would anyone sacrifice 15% damage for a weapon swap not within their rotation?), and I’m not sure where you’re chucking your spare trait in the master category to contemplate ever dropping Rending Strikes for anything. A/M-GS 56002 was outdated half a year ago with the ferocity update, the GS is there now only for mobility purposes between fights. If you’re seriously considering using postnerf-100b-wwa for a non-PS build at this point of time there is no need for any further discussion any more – and aside from that idea, running 3 in the Disc tree doesn’t have any possible point.

Greatsword skills have a lower damage multiplier per second (7.99 power mult over 5 seconds rotation, 1.6 m/s) relative to axe’s autoattack chain 5 mult over 2.9s, 1.72 m/s), and over their lowest common multiplier of 15, the axe chain hits 30 times, while the GS hits 39 times, for an average difference of 0.2 more vulnerability per second. We haven’t taken into account axe’s feroc or +5% dmg, or +10% attack speed buffs yet, which should handily outweigh the ascended GS’s 10% base damage advantage over the ascended axe. Might on crit is even more undesirable as overwriting a max specced buff ele’s 28 second might stack with 5 second might stacks reduces your overall might overhead.

The only way the post makes any sense at all is if you’re using the pre-patch meta build from half a year ago. I’d explain this in a nicer fashion if the question was asked nicely, but dumping suboptimal builds from your pedestal in a condescending way kind of disqualifies the max friendliness approach here.

Ironically, going from 56003 to 66002 represents a greater increase in damage (~20% at max adrenaline) than the original subject of this thread, which represents a 6% dps reduction at max to the zerk war build.

P.S. You were complaining about accounting for uncrittable targets, but if I threw in the uncrittable condition here, Arms X doesn’t even proc on uncrittable targets. It’s actually a good thing – since you won’t overwrite your friendly neighbourhood ele’s might stacks that way.

People seem to think Anet is somehwo unaware that this will hit defense builds harder than zerker builds… that is the POINT of these changes.

Being a bunker was supposed to result in less damage output, however thanks to might stacking bunkers could have both high defense and high damage. This nerf is almost entirely to reduce the effectiveness of bunker builds that have become more and more popular in PvP. It also is to tone down the damage in PvE since everything dies so fast and prevents no challenge.

If ArenaNet is nerfing Might in all game modes, it’s because they think it’s overpowered in all game modes. They aren’t just responding to PvP with a clumsy blanket-nerf across PvE and WvW as well. They’re aware these modes exist, and believe the change would benefit there as well.

You can disagree that such a change is good for PvE and WvW, of course — but it’s silly to say they’re “changing the whole game in order to address a problem in one part of the game.” They are not doing that, you just disagree with their decision.

Hayashi, you do realize that the builds that I said are meta are a net DPS increase for the group over the build you’ve suggested, which has higher personal DPS at the loss of group DPS, right? I don’t think anyone in their right mind can defend “net DPS loss” builds as optimal.

I also find it interesting that DnT’s warrior build page, metabattle.com, and all those Warriors you see in record runs would seem to agree with me (including iV’s recent arah p4 record… where if you watch, the Warrior POV you’ll see the Warrior runs two builds… the exact two builds I mentioned, swapping to the second build during the Grenth “boss”). If you really think you’ve discovered a better build, I’d suggest going over to the DnT forums and letting them know about it, or at least taking it to the Fractals and Dungeons section.

In any event, I’m not going to reply to you here anymore. You’re clueless, and I’m not going to drag the thread off topic.

Overwriting a might stack with a lower duration might stack, attacking with a lower damage multiplier and without a +15% damage boost are a net DPS loss?

I agree completely that there is no need for further discussion. You are not able to understand how the builds function or their roles, so there is no further benefit for you. And it should be readily apparent to anyone else reading the past few posts which build to use, so I’ve fulfilled my responsibility in that area to others as well.

Let’s return to the original point of the thread, this entire diversion belonged in the warrior subforums and not on a thread about Might. Have a nice day.

Narkodx.1472:

They don’t care about your solo dungeon runs taking 15 seconds longer

It is actually good to make dungeons take longer. I think that the might nerf is good for spvp and has an awesome side effect on pve and wvw.

Dramen Maidria.1034:

Harper.4173:

Carighan.6758:

How is dealing lower numbers inherently more fun if other numbers are also lower? Your c*** isn’t shorter all of a sudden, someone just changed the numbering on the measuring stick.

I mean, sure, you’re weaker than before. But shouldn’t a better overall game balance be something you desire, if damage is what you enjoy? After all, in an unbalanced game, dealing high damage isn’t a result of player skill but of identifying and exploiting overpowered mechanics.

This is not the problem.

The problem is changing the whole game in order to address a problem in one part of the game.

Another thing I would like to address are the people saying “at most it’s a 5% nerf” or “big deal the boss will take 1-2 extra hits”.

The problem isn’t the small dps nerf ( call it 5% or what you will) that came with this patch. It’s the constant DPS nerfs that have been happening for the last 2 feature patches.

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Players who optimize will do so and adapt and keep going. Other players – not so much.

While this change was finally prompted by the issues in PvP right now, that doesn’t mean they didn’t decide to use it to bring PvE more in line with what they wanted. When the ferocity change was announced it was announced as the first of more potential changes to bring damage in line with what was intended, and that they would be doing it in small pieces and watching the results rather than a couple huge sweeping changes all at once. They never said it would be the only change. Since this wasn’t split for just PvP (like the confusion change showed they were capable of doing) then clearly Anet felt was necessary to continue the adjustment to potential damage. The changes you are complaining about were done because the game developers felt things were not working as intended, so why would they compensate the damage nerfs to still allow the same kill times they were trying to adjust in the first place? The only real problem here is that they took almost two years to make these adjustments, but that is partially due to the devs not fully understanding their own combat system at launch (they only seem to be just recently really understanding it, which is fine it was something completely new) and the players over time finding more and more ways to maximize potential damage past what Anet intended.

This is most likely true but nobody likes it because the content is old and making it take longer is only making it more tedious.

At least the rewards should also be buffed in some way or another.

Hayashi.3416:

Overwriting a might stack with a lower duration might stack, attacking with a lower damage multiplier and without a +15% damage boost are a net DPS loss?

I agree completely that there is no need for further discussion. You are not able to understand how the builds function or their roles, so there is no further benefit for you. And it should be readily apparent to anyone else reading the past few posts which build to use, so I’ve fulfilled my responsibility in that area to others as well.

Let’s return to the original point of the thread, this entire diversion belonged in the warrior subforums and not on a thread about Might. Have a nice day.

when i look at your signature i can see where your strange theory crafting and builds are coming from “WvW, WvW, WvW, WvW, WvW”

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

The tit for tat answer is that some people actually enjoy their time playing the game.

The serious answer is that most people don’t care that much about absolute time optimization. The difference simply isn’t so great.

Well, I’m sure since you have been absolutely optimizing your time you know from experience how little the difference will be? Tell me, what’s the time differential for a fotm 50? How about for a fotm 50 with a pug group where I’m the only one stacking might and the rest of the h group is doing little dps?

This isn’t the first time raw damage potential has been nerfed. It’s like the third or fourth at least. The game’s encounters haven’t changed so the only thing that has happened is that the meat sponges in this game are dragged out even further. I enjoy playing this game. But if the content continually begins to take longer and longer for no discernable reason, it ceases to be fun.

I mean, why not nerf max dps to 1? This change caters to the phiw people, by kneecapping the play efficiently people. It’s disgusting.

You don’t know the difference either, I doubt you’re running test runs with exactly 20 stacks of might to find out.

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

You come off as more interested in going after the ever-hated “PBIW crowd” to the point that the primary interest in this change is how you can use this change to take angry potshots at them.

~~~

To hit on your final rhetorical question, ‘because that would obviously, even by standards of reducto ad absurdum, ruin the game’. Anet thought might was slightly out of balance across the various game modes, and they fixed the imbalance in a way they thought would enhance the game.

~~~

I get that it’s the nature of gamers to rage out at any change and accuse devs of catering to whichever group of players they don’t like, but people need to seriously get a grip.

Hayashi.3416:

Overwriting a might stack with a lower duration might stack, attacking with a lower damage multiplier and without a +15% damage boost are a net DPS loss?

I agree completely that there is no need for further discussion. You are not able to understand how the builds function or their roles, so there is no further benefit for you. And it should be readily apparent to anyone else reading the past few posts which build to use, so I’ve fulfilled my responsibility in that area to others as well.

Let’s return to the original point of the thread, this entire diversion belonged in the warrior subforums and not on a thread about Might. Have a nice day.

Exactly, it is readily apparent that we should use DnT’s builds all the way and stay far
away from your trash builds.

Firelysm.4967:

I don’t know why you guys even complain when you have to 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 what ever you do in PvE? Except in fractal 50 where you have to Jump, dodge sometimes AND 11111..

You play a guardian or warrior, don’t you?

Eles and engineers can’t do that. And they’re the ones getting nerfed.

Gilosean.3805:

Firelysm.4967:

I don’t know why you guys even complain when you have to 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 what ever you do in PvE? Except in fractal 50 where you have to Jump, dodge sometimes AND 11111..

You play a guardian or warrior, don’t you?

Eles and engineers can’t do that. And they’re the ones getting nerfed.

Hey now, if a guardian is doing that, they’d be providing little to no benefit for their lower dps and should be booted anyway

Gilosean.3805:

Firelysm.4967:

I don’t know why you guys even complain when you have to 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 what ever you do in PvE? Except in fractal 50 where you have to Jump, dodge sometimes AND 11111..

You play a guardian or warrior, don’t you?

Eles and engineers can’t do that. And they’re the ones getting nerfed.

that basically sums up my issue with the might nerf…i sorta..kinda depend on might

Harper.4173:

This is not the problem.

This is most likely true but nobody likes it because the content is old and making it take longer is only making it more tedious.

At least the rewards should also be buffed in some way or another.

With the focus on the NPE that doesn’t really stand up as to the new players they are wanting to retain the dungeon are not old yet, however the negativity and frigid thinking of the dungeon runners (looters) might me though.

Windsagio.1340:

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

When the game is built around requiring people to re-run content multiple times to get a goal…yeah, people are going to want to do it as fast as possible.

My 1st run of CoF was a lot of fun. My 5th run was still pretty interesting. My 30th – not so much. I just wanted to finish so I could get what I really wanted.

Completing a zone on one character is fun. Completing it on 2 was running through a checklist, because I’ve already done this. Completing it on more…I honestly don’t know if I ever will. And I once leveled a character to 80 in a single zone, I like playing in familiar places. For others I’m sure it’s worse.

We need a bigger variety in play options. We need to be able to work towards long-term goals without needing to repeat content ad infinitum. Until that happens, people are going to focus on optimizing the time spent, because the 20th run through something is fun for almost nobody.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Gilosean.3805:

Firelysm.4967:

I don’t know why you guys even complain when you have to 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 what ever you do in PvE? Except in fractal 50 where you have to Jump, dodge sometimes AND 11111..

You play a guardian or warrior, don’t you?

Eles and engineers can’t do that. And they’re the ones getting nerfed.

Hey now, if a guardian is doing that, they’d be providing little to no benefit for their lower dps and should be booted anyway

Nobody does though.

I’ve been playing long enough that I remember when eles got booted just because they were eles – we were the suckiest class for the longest time, it only recently got better, and now all those war/guard players are throwing fits because they’re not numero uno anymore. argh

Honestly – I think part of the reason people complain so much has got to do with visual presence. Eles and engis are flashy. Their fire fields and explosions catch the eye. People know when they’re on the battlefield. The other classes aren’t nearly as flashy, and so it’s harder to track what other classes are doing. But everyone notices when an ele sets them on fire, so it makes eles look more powerful.

Gilosean.3805:

Windsagio.1340:

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

When the game is built around requiring people to re-run content multiple times to get a goal…yeah, people are going to want to do it as fast as possible.

My 1st run of CoF was a lot of fun. My 5th run was still pretty interesting. My 30th – not so much. I just wanted to finish so I could get what I really wanted.

Completing a zone on one character is fun. Completing it on 2 was running through a checklist, because I’ve already done this. Completing it on more…I honestly don’t know if I ever will. And I once leveled a character to 80 in a single zone, I like playing in familiar places. For others I’m sure it’s worse.

We need a bigger variety in play options. We need to be able to work towards long-term goals without needing to repeat content ad infinitum. Until that happens, people are going to focus on optimizing the time spent, because the 20th run through something is fun for almost nobody.

To go real talk for a moment then, maybe you’re focusing too much on that goal then? Everything is optional and almost everything has an alternate method of attainment. MMOs have bred a whole generation of gamers that play for what it gives them, not for the game itself, and in a horiz progression game its even weirder.

I am glad might is finally getting the nerf it has deserved for a long time. Along with the other adjustments made in this balance we will hopefully see all classes welcome in groups and not just the brainless 1 button mashers who have a god complex.

Windsagio.1340:

Gilosean.3805:

Windsagio.1340:

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

When the game is built around requiring people to re-run content multiple times to get a goal…yeah, people are going to want to do it as fast as possible.

My 1st run of CoF was a lot of fun. My 5th run was still pretty interesting. My 30th – not so much. I just wanted to finish so I could get what I really wanted.

Completing a zone on one character is fun. Completing it on 2 was running through a checklist, because I’ve already done this. Completing it on more…I honestly don’t know if I ever will. And I once leveled a character to 80 in a single zone, I like playing in familiar places. For others I’m sure it’s worse.

We need a bigger variety in play options. We need to be able to work towards long-term goals without needing to repeat content ad infinitum. Until that happens, people are going to focus on optimizing the time spent, because the 20th run through something is fun for almost nobody.

To go real talk for a moment then, maybe you’re focusing too much on that goal then? Everything is optional and almost everything has an alternate method of attainment. MMOs have bred a whole generation of gamers that play for what it gives them, not for the game itself, and in a horiz progression game its even weirder.

1) People like working towards and achieving goals. That’s fun for a lot of people.
2) GW2 is built around long-term goals, which have been substituted for varied and interesting gameplay as a means to keep players engaged.

Horizontal progression is still progression. It just means that previous acquisitions don’t become useless if a player stops playing for a bit. Refraining from actively punishing players for not progressing is not the same thing as making a game not built around progression.

If there was enough here to have fun without working towards a long-term goal, I’d be happy. But there isn’t. My only options to play are:
1) Kill things
2) Run between areas of killing things
3) Buy/sell on the TP
4) Chat

Those are pretty limited. And all the options that involve actually playing the game are built around progression (more items, more parts of the map filled in, higher number in the wallet, etc).

Harper.4173:

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Ah, hrm…
Well, to that I’d say that independent of any nerfs done (this patch also brings a lot of individual buffs), encounters will be super-easy both before and after in PvE. And from that perspective, I’m not sure PvE couldn’t use some all-around nerfs to player power. Though not only to damage output, granted.

Narkodx.1472:

They don’t care about your solo dungeon runs taking 15 seconds longer

^qft

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Ah, hrm…
Well, to that I’d say that independent of any nerfs done (this patch also brings a lot of individual buffs), encounters will be super-easy both before and after in PvE. And from that perspective, I’m not sure PvE couldn’t use some all-around nerfs to player power. Though not only to damage output, granted.

One of the things that always amazes me is the ‘omg never ever nerf!’ If something is out of balance, the designer wants to fix it.

A certain class of players only ever see something getting taken way, and its honestly tiresome.

Purple Miku.7032:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Overall a lot of the changes are positive, but we are once again seeing unjustifiably large damage nerfs for PvE because of changes that are inspired by PvP/WvW-related activity [-cough- d/d elementalists in celestial -cough-].

Might: The power and condition damage provided by this boon have been reduced from 35 per stack to 30.

If might’s efficacy is a problem in PvP, then why not do exactly what you did there with what you did with confusion…?

Confusion: The effect of condition damage on confusion has been increased by 33% in PvE only. This change does not affect PvP or WvW.

Why is this change not separated like the above?

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay. While I have no problem with changes, it’s just annoying to constantly see combat efficacy in PvE repeatedly decreased as a consequence of something completely irrelevant in another game mode.

Also:

Invigorating Precision: The health gain from this trait on a critical strike has been increased from 8% of damage dealt to 15%.
Dev note: This trait was very hard pressed to return health of much value, so we increased the amount of health rewarded by a significant percentage.

top kek

Seriously. Why aren’t balanced changes between PvP and PvE separated?

They mentioned nothing about this change being because of PvP/WvW or else they’d change it for that game type. These changes are because of the PvE balancing.

The 5 power reduction from each might stack, 125 power total removed. Has almost no real damage ‘nerf’, if you’re already Optimized for “I wanna be the very best, that there ever was” You still are with or without this change.

Riku.4821:

Purple Miku.7032:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Overall a lot of the changes are positive, but we are once again seeing unjustifiably large damage nerfs for PvE because of changes that are inspired by PvP/WvW-related activity [-cough- d/d elementalists in celestial -cough-].

Might: The power and condition damage provided by this boon have been reduced from 35 per stack to 30.

If might’s efficacy is a problem in PvP, then why not do exactly what you did there with what you did with confusion…?

Confusion: The effect of condition damage on confusion has been increased by 33% in PvE only. This change does not affect PvP or WvW.

Why is this change not separated like the above?

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay. While I have no problem with changes, it’s just annoying to constantly see combat efficacy in PvE repeatedly decreased as a consequence of something completely irrelevant in another game mode.

Also:

Invigorating Precision: The health gain from this trait on a critical strike has been increased from 8% of damage dealt to 15%.
Dev note: This trait was very hard pressed to return health of much value, so we increased the amount of health rewarded by a significant percentage.

top kek

Seriously. Why aren’t balanced changes between PvP and PvE separated?

They mentioned nothing about this change being because of PvP/WvW or else they’d change it for that game type. These changes are because of the PvE balancing.

The 5 power reduction from each might stack, 125 power total removed. Has almost no real damage ‘nerf’, if you’re already Optimized for “I wanna be the very best, that there ever was” You still are with or without this change.

Care to substantiate your claims of that it’s for PVE balancing?

If it is, isn’t that simply promoting poor play (those who don’t apply might) and hurting good play (those who do stack might). That’s pretty sad for a game that’s always tried to make active and good play beneficial.

Jerus.4350:

Riku.4821:

Purple Miku.7032:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Overall a lot of the changes are positive, but we are once again seeing unjustifiably large damage nerfs for PvE because of changes that are inspired by PvP/WvW-related activity [-cough- d/d elementalists in celestial -cough-].

Might: The power and condition damage provided by this boon have been reduced from 35 per stack to 30.

If might’s efficacy is a problem in PvP, then why not do exactly what you did there with what you did with confusion…?

Confusion: The effect of condition damage on confusion has been increased by 33% in PvE only. This change does not affect PvP or WvW.

Why is this change not separated like the above?

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay. While I have no problem with changes, it’s just annoying to constantly see combat efficacy in PvE repeatedly decreased as a consequence of something completely irrelevant in another game mode.

Also:

Invigorating Precision: The health gain from this trait on a critical strike has been increased from 8% of damage dealt to 15%.
Dev note: This trait was very hard pressed to return health of much value, so we increased the amount of health rewarded by a significant percentage.

top kek

Seriously. Why aren’t balanced changes between PvP and PvE separated?

They mentioned nothing about this change being because of PvP/WvW or else they’d change it for that game type. These changes are because of the PvE balancing.

The 5 power reduction from each might stack, 125 power total removed. Has almost no real damage ‘nerf’, if you’re already Optimized for “I wanna be the very best, that there ever was” You still are with or without this change.

Care to substantiate your claims of that it’s for PVE balancing?

If it is, isn’t that simply promoting poor play (those who don’t apply might) and hurting good play (those who do stack might). That’s pretty sad for a game that’s always tried to make active and good play beneficial.

They stated nothing saying this is due to PvP reasons. It would be idiotic to say, “in pvp might is over used and over powered so we will nerf it in PvE instead”. Clearly this is due to the game not being up to par to their standards. I for one would not say stacking might and going into a corner like some kittenroach is ‘good’ and most diffidently not active play.

Riku, anyone with any clue realizes two things:

1. The might nerf is a direct response to celestial might stacking builds in PvE. That’s also why they nerfed the Battle sigil might.

2. ANET doesn’t want to split PvE, WvW and PvP balance, even in cases where there’s a needless negative impact on another game mode because of PvP balance. Except, you know, for confusion.

Jerus.4350:

Care to substantiate your claims of that it’s for PVE balancing?

If it is, isn’t that simply promoting poor play (those who don’t apply might) and hurting good play (those who do stack might). That’s pretty sad for a game that’s always tried to make active and good play beneficial.

To say that PvP isn’t part of the equation at all would be a pretty hard sell, celestial might stacking is a big deal in pvp and is super strong (probably more so than might stacking is in pve).

The thing is, in the exact same list of changes they split confusion to do more damage in PvE only, but they didn’t split the might change.

An entirely reasonable conclusion from that is that they felt the change applied properly to pve and pvp.

The problem with the ‘right play’ argument is that different setups have massively different access to might stacking, I’d speculate that’s part of the calculation.

~~~

For a guess as to reasons:
1) They felt that might stacking was making the fights too quick and too easy. I’d be willing to bet that they weren’t expecting players to carry full stacks for long periods when they build the system.
2) They felt that might was advantageous to the point that it was adversely affecting rune/sigil/trait selection balance. Yes players will (rightly) gravitate to what they think is their best choice, but it’s the developers responsibility to try to make as many choices valid as possible.

~~~

As an aside, I’m kind of expecting a nerf to scholar runes sometime soon, probably to 7%. I’m guessing the 90% health is easier to maintain than they expected.

Riku.4821:

Jerus.4350:

Riku.4821:

Purple Miku.7032:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/preview-of-upcoming-balance-changes/

Overall a lot of the changes are positive, but we are once again seeing unjustifiably large damage nerfs for PvE because of changes that are inspired by PvP/WvW-related activity [-cough- d/d elementalists in celestial -cough-].

Might: The power and condition damage provided by this boon have been reduced from 35 per stack to 30.

If might’s efficacy is a problem in PvP, then why not do exactly what you did there with what you did with confusion…?

Confusion: The effect of condition damage on confusion has been increased by 33% in PvE only. This change does not affect PvP or WvW.

Why is this change not separated like the above?

Changes like this only further alienate the people who enjoy optimizing their gameplay. While I have no problem with changes, it’s just annoying to constantly see combat efficacy in PvE repeatedly decreased as a consequence of something completely irrelevant in another game mode.

Also:

Invigorating Precision: The health gain from this trait on a critical strike has been increased from 8% of damage dealt to 15%.
Dev note: This trait was very hard pressed to return health of much value, so we increased the amount of health rewarded by a significant percentage.

top kek

Seriously. Why aren’t balanced changes between PvP and PvE separated?

They mentioned nothing about this change being because of PvP/WvW or else they’d change it for that game type. These changes are because of the PvE balancing.

The 5 power reduction from each might stack, 125 power total removed. Has almost no real damage ‘nerf’, if you’re already Optimized for “I wanna be the very best, that there ever was” You still are with or without this change.

Care to substantiate your claims of that it’s for PVE balancing?

If it is, isn’t that simply promoting poor play (those who don’t apply might) and hurting good play (those who do stack might). That’s pretty sad for a game that’s always tried to make active and good play beneficial.

They stated nothing saying this is due to PvP reasons. It would be idiotic to say, “in pvp might is over used and over powered so we will nerf it in PvE instead”. Clearly this is due to the game not being up to par to their standards. I for one would not say stacking might and going into a corner like some kittenroach is ‘good’ and most diffidently not active play.

… Have you not been paying attention to PVP balance issues at all?

Celestial has become dominant and the two professions with the best might stacking PVP builds (Engi/Ele) have been running wild. Might is quite powerful and these professions using a celestial amulet which should mean they have weaker damage are able to compete with other professions that are using higher power amulets because they can make up the difference through might.

That’s been a common cry for the last few months.

Also, apparently you haven’t been paying attention to the PVE meta either, as stacking in corners has been out of it for months as well. Corners were something used for FGS rushing, it allowed insane damage as you stacked the fields of the rush. That was nerfed. So after that people stopped using corners as it takes time to get an enemy in a corner, or it takes a defiance stack. The only people using corners still are PUGs who don’t think for themselves and are simply replicating the strategies of the past while wasting time and often hindering their performance in worse ways (Why pull the Slaver in CoFp1 to the wall when you can IB5 him, and burn him down without worrying about being attacked? Same goes for say Alpha in COE and other bosses).

You’re speaking on things you clearly know nothing about.

Jerus.4350:

(Why pull the Slaver in CoFp1 to the wall when you can IB5 him, and burn him down without worrying about being attacked? Same goes for say Alpha in COE and other bosses).

Which honestly is probably part of the reason they’re soewhat nerfing might stacking in PvE :p

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

Care to substantiate your claims of that it’s for PVE balancing?

If it is, isn’t that simply promoting poor play (those who don’t apply might) and hurting good play (those who do stack might). That’s pretty sad for a game that’s always tried to make active and good play beneficial.

To say that PvP isn’t part of the equation at all would be a pretty hard sell, celestial might stacking is a big deal in pvp and is super strong (probably more so than might stacking is in pve).

The thing is, in the exact same list of changes they split confusion to do more damage in PvE only, but they didn’t split the might change.

An entirely reasonable conclusion from that is that they felt the change applied properly to pve and pvp.

The problem with the ‘right play’ argument is that different setups have massively different access to might stacking, I’d speculate that’s part of the calculation.

~~~

For a guess as to reasons:
1) They felt that might stacking was making the fights too quick and too easy. I’d be willing to bet that they weren’t expecting players to carry full stacks for long periods when they build the system.
2) They felt that might was advantageous to the point that it was adversely affecting rune/sigil/trait selection balance. Yes players will (rightly) gravitate to what they think is their best choice, but it’s the developers responsibility to try to make as many choices valid as possible.

~~~

As an aside, I’m kind of expecting a nerf to scholar runes sometime soon, probably to 7%. I’m guessing the 90% health is easier to maintain than they expected.

This is one of the most depressing posts I’ve read. God I hope the devs weren’t that oblivious to how their game could be played.

It was last april I believe that they gave Warriors the ability to pretty much maintain 25 might on their entire team. Were they really oblivious to that and didn’t intend for it to happen? They gave Eles long lasting fire fields and a dozen blast options, but they didn’t intend for them to be used intelligently? That’s just a horrifying thought. That the devs could be that oblivious to the possibilities within their own game.

I will say though, this change won’t really affect me, I’m simply keeping up with the topic as entertainment, but some of the posts here are just so wrong.

The bolded though is again, exactly what I was saying. THey’re punishing good play and promoting bad play. You don’t have to play meta to value covering all yoru bases. Whether you’re in Nomads or Zerk gear might will be very helpful, fury as well. Protection is always nice. Correct use of Aegis/blinds/reflects will prove invaluable. Just because you run a certain build or prefer to play a different way doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be working as a team to provide all the boons you find useful. I’d point out that Staff guard can pump out 12+ stacks of might.

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

(Why pull the Slaver in CoFp1 to the wall when you can IB5 him, and burn him down without worrying about being attacked? Same goes for say Alpha in COE and other bosses).

Which honestly is probably part of the reason they’re soewhat nerfing might stacking in PvE :p

I really wish they would have reverted the changes they made in the april patch as far as scaling went first. All non 80 dungeons got easier, while lvl 80 content simply gets slower.

I remember when that patch hit, it took my group 3-4 FGS rushes to kill spider queen before it, and <2 after. Pretty big difference. Now there might have been a few other little tweaks we made in that time, but surely not enough to account for being twice as fast.

Jerus.4350:

… Have you not been paying attention to PVP balance issues at all?

Celestial has become dominant and the two professions with the best might stacking PVP builds (Engi/Ele) have been running wild. Might is quite powerful and these professions using a celestial amulet which should mean they have weaker damage are able to compete with other professions that are using higher power amulets because they can make up the difference through might.

That’s been a common cry for the last few months.

Also, apparently you haven’t been paying attention to the PVE meta either, as stacking in corners has been out of it for months as well. Corners were something used for FGS rushing, it allowed insane damage as you stacked the fields of the rush. That was nerfed. So after that people stopped using corners as it takes time to get an enemy in a corner, or it takes a defiance stack. The only people using corners still are PUGs who don’t think for themselves and are simply replicating the strategies of the past while wasting time and often hindering their performance in worse ways (Why pull the Slaver in CoFp1 to the wall when you can IB5 him, and burn him down without worrying about being attacked? Same goes for say Alpha in COE and other bosses).

You’re speaking on things you clearly know nothing about.

You said yourself, that stacking might and in a corner is-and is not still used. Organized groups don’t stack in corner because they can do it without that, pugs do because they can’t. Would you not say PvP is the same way? I see plenty of organized groups deal with all sorts of people, even outnumbered have no problem with anything. Yet pugs do.

Did you ever think that Celestial Engineers and Elementalists builds do well because celestial works best for those classes? And again you said yourself, it’s nothing but a cry. I’ve noticed more of a problem from stealth backstabbing thieves than Cele Ele or Engineers, but that is my own personal reasoning. And Might is simply a boon, and a stacking boon. Remove it and the problem is gone.
125 power is not a huge ‘nerf’. Boons has its own whole set of problems that is another topic for another day.
The community is crying over spilled milk.
I also kindly ask you don’t insult others over simple matters.

PS: I speak on behalf of my personal experiences. And with that said, every group of PvE I join, it resorts to Might stack and or Corner stack. Yet Every Dungeon I myself run I do not resort to either of those methods. Every PvP event I do, I have no problems with Might Celestial Elementlists or Engineers. On My Personal Experience.

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Pockets.3201:

Windsagio.1340:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

This is one of the saddest threads I’ve ever seen in the history of the forums. People are celebrating being kneecapped.

Or they’re celebrating slightly improved balance between abilities.

Or, and more likely, they’re responding negatively to the kvetching about it.

Edit: Things being a tiny bit harder and slower isn’t something I’d be up in arms about.

We all enjoy the game in different ways. Some judge the quality of their playtime by the size of their numbers, apparently.

And some judge the quality of their playtime by how long they can drag out menial and repetitive encounters.

The tit for tat answer is that some people actually enjoy their time playing the game.

The serious answer is that most people don’t care that much about absolute time optimization. The difference simply isn’t so great.

Well, I’m sure since you have been absolutely optimizing your time you know from experience how little the difference will be? Tell me, what’s the time differential for a fotm 50? How about for a fotm 50 with a pug group where I’m the only one stacking might and the rest of the h group is doing little dps?

This isn’t the first time raw damage potential has been nerfed. It’s like the third or fourth at least. The game’s encounters haven’t changed so the only thing that has happened is that the meat sponges in this game are dragged out even further. I enjoy playing this game. But if the content continually begins to take longer and longer for no discernable reason, it ceases to be fun.

I mean, why not nerf max dps to 1? This change caters to the phiw people, by kneecapping the play efficiently people. It’s disgusting.

You don’t know the difference either, I doubt you’re running test runs with exactly 20 stacks of might to find out.

I’ll tell you however that a level 50 fotm is entirely completable without any stacking at all. Yeah, it takes longer (I don’t ever time my runs so Ihave no idea how much longer it takes), but it doesn’t change anything.

It’s really hard to respond respectfully to the obsession with second-counting. The pat response is that mabye if you hate playing the gamemode so much that every extra second is agony, maybe you should play another game for a while. That’s not really what’s at issue though. Instead I’ll suggest that you let go of your internet anger and personal forum grudges.

You come off as more interested in going after the ever-hated “PBIW crowd” to the point that the primary interest in this change is how you can use this change to take angry potshots at them.

~~~

To hit on your final rhetorical question, ‘because that would obviously, even by standards of reducto ad absurdum, ruin the game’. Anet thought might was slightly out of balance across the various game modes, and they fixed the imbalance in a way they thought would enhance the game.

~~~

I get that it’s the nature of gamers to rage out at any change and accuse devs of catering to whichever group of players they don’t like, but people need to seriously get a grip.

The ideal damage rotations have been posted. One can calculate the theoretical loss in time based on those. You’ve not done that. All you’ve done is made derogatory hyperbolic statements describing me as a “second counter” and a “raging gamer” while fundamentally showing you don’t understand what is going on.

1. Condition cap nerfed conditions.
2. Ferocity nerf nerfed zerkers.
3. FGS nerfed speed clear parties. Of these, this one was the one that was on another tier and is the one I think was justified. None of the others were.
4. Might is now being nerfed.

Patch after patch the same encounters have been made slower and slower. It’s not on the measure of seconds. It’s on the measure of minutes, and for some of us this makes a difference. Now please go read up on this topics and understand what’s going on before coming back.

Edit: When I’m talking about encounters being made slower, I of course mean level 80 content. As Jerus pointed out above, scaling made lower level content easier.

Windsagio.1340:

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Ah, hrm…
Well, to that I’d say that independent of any nerfs done (this patch also brings a lot of individual buffs), encounters will be super-easy both before and after in PvE. And from that perspective, I’m not sure PvE couldn’t use some all-around nerfs to player power. Though not only to damage output, granted.

One of the things that always amazes me is the ‘omg never ever nerf!’ If something is out of balance, the designer wants to fix it.

A certain class of players only ever see something getting taken way, and its honestly tiresome.

There are few people who say never ever nerf. As I wrote above, what’s tiresome is consistent nerfs to power builds over time based on complaints from posters like you.

Muusic.2967:

I am glad might is finally getting the nerf it has deserved for a long time. Along with the other adjustments made in this balance we will hopefully see all classes welcome in groups and not just the brainless 1 button mashers who have a god complex.

Might being nerfed will not make more classes viable for dungeons. It will do the exact opposite.

With DPS being lowered the only thing that will happen is that efficient and organized parties will become more strict with the people they take along and the overall margin for error.

Making the game harder for everybody doesn’t make it easier for anybody.

Carighan.6758:

Harper.4173:

The problem isn’t that the nerf is small, the problem is the trend. They are making things harder without in any way compensating for it- and that’s the real problem.

Ah, hrm…
Well, to that I’d say that independent of any nerfs done (this patch also brings a lot of individual buffs), encounters will be super-easy both before and after in PvE. And from that perspective, I’m not sure PvE couldn’t use some all-around nerfs to player power. Though not only to damage output, granted.

Why? Why do you want to change it? Do you think it will make stale content less stale? Or bad encounter design any better?

The state of PVE is likewise mostly because of the fact that no new content has been added for 1 and a half years since release. And even then it was very little.

Harper.4173:

Why? Why do you want to change it? Do you think it will make stale content less stale? Or bad encounter design any better?

The state of PVE is likewise mostly because of the fact that no new content has been added for 1 and a half years since release. And even then it was very little.

Well, no, I don’t think the lack of new content has anything to do with the quality of the existent content (that’d be absurd).
And while there’s a lot of things I would change about it, one of those things is reigning in player power. Especially in the extremes. That is, across the game I’d make glass-specs slightly less glassy and bunker-specs slightly less tanky. Not by extreme amounts, either. Part of that would be to also sand off the extremes of all optional effects, one of them being might.
Though my ideal solution would take boons and conditions back to the drawing board and make them more binary, far far far less common and far more powerful and fight-deciding when deployed. But that’s besides the point because it’d be too large a rework.

thefantasticg.3984:

Windsagio.1340:

There are pve related issues to might, namely might stacking is very powerful and in some cases greatly effects the intended difficulty of encounters.

“intended difficulty” is the key phrase here. Not being bad can effect the “intended difficulty” so how are they going to nerf good players? Well, they tried by the universal vigor nerf and whatnot. It’s changes like this that just widen the gap between the goods and the bads.

thats a good thing in my book. when im better than another player i want to know when other players completely outclass me i want to know so i can ask them for advice. i dont want the game masking my mistakes from me just to make me think im good at a fight im really horrible at.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

The ideal damage rotations have been posted. One can calculate the theoretical loss in time based on those. You’ve not done that. All you’ve done is made derogatory hyperbolic statements describing me as a “second counter” and a “raging gamer” while fundamentally showing you don’t understand what is going on.

1. Condition cap nerfed conditions.
2. Ferocity nerf nerfed zerkers.
3. FGS nerfed speed clear parties. Of these, this one was the one that was on another tier and is the one I think was justified. None of the others were.
4. Might is now being nerfed.

Patch after patch the same encounters have been made slower and slower. It’s not on the measure of seconds. It’s on the measure of minutes, and for some of us this makes a difference. Now please go read up on this topics and understand what’s going on before coming back.

Edit: When I’m talking about encounters being made slower, I of course mean level 80 content. As Jerus pointed out above, scaling made lower level content easier.

Ideal rotations change as the game changes, welcome to the modern era.

Also, yes they’re reducing damage output. Undoubtedly because they think damage output is too high.

Despite your deep need to make it personal, I don’t really have a dog in the fight as to the specific change. I am however very interested in trying to get people out of the angry mob mode of game design. You (among several others) are more interested in being mad about the change and laying blame for the change than you are in trying to consider what Anet’s design reasons for the change were or thinking seriously about the impact from a design perspective.

It’s all ARGH THEY"RE CATERING TO THE BADS AND IT DOESN’T HURT ME AS MUCH AS IT HURTS THE BADS BECAUSE I THINK IT’S JUST REVENGE AND I’M NOT SO SUBTLY TRYING TO GUILT TRIP THEM INTO QUIT ASKING FOR THINGS THAT I DON’T LIKE!