Low damage is funner than high damage because it takes more skill and becomes more about tactics. HIgh damage is about who attacks first. This is evident in part by how badly SPvP has failed and how berserker centric PvE is. ArenaNet has also done a horrible job of balancing damage, mitigation, healing, conditions, and mobility, which makes people choose the most OP option. At they very least the might nerf is a teeny tiny step in the right direction. Being able to bunker up and have high damage isn’t something that should be possible because it kills the balance for berserkers. On the other hand a berserker shouldn’t be able to one shot any class regardless of how they are built. This game could safely halve the current damage and fights would be all the funner for it.
Low damage is funner than high damage because it takes more skill and becomes more about tactics. HIgh damage is about who attacks first. This is evident in part by how badly SPvP has failed and how berserker centric PvE is. ArenaNet has also done a horrible job of balancing damage, mitigation, healing, conditions, and mobility, which makes people choose the most OP option. At they very least the might nerf is a teeny tiny step in the right direction. Being able to bunker up and have high damage isn’t something that should be possible because it kills the balance for berserkers. On the other hand a berserker shouldn’t be able to one shot any class regardless of how they are built. This game could safely halve the current damage and fights would be all the funner for it.
Excellent discription.
" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur
So they’r happy with bosses that can be killed before they even appear on the screen (looking at you Spider Queen). But unhappy with the kill rate in fractals/Arah/COE/HoTW (Big LOL on the HOTW one)?
I’d suspect that most of the parties they look at numbers before don’t do ‘pre-load kills’, and a large number of non-optimal groups don’t have the ability to do that.
It’s far more important to keep the content accessible than it is to make it harder for more optimized groups — but that doesn’t mean you don’t tweak the top-end at all.
The top end doesn’t need tweaking. The bottom end is what’s OP.
All you people saying the damage reduction won’t affect anything should run all paths of HotW till the day of the update. Then come back and discuss something about “reducing damage.”
It’s really not going to take any more or less skill to beat the same mobs you’ve been fighting for the past 2 years because you have less damage.
So they’r happy with bosses that can be killed before they even appear on the screen (looking at you Spider Queen). But unhappy with the kill rate in fractals/Arah/COE/HoTW (Big LOL on the HOTW one)?
I’d suspect that most of the parties they look at numbers before don’t do ‘pre-load kills’, and a large number of non-optimal groups don’t have the ability to do that.
It’s far more important to keep the content accessible than it is to make it harder for more optimized groups — but that doesn’t mean you don’t tweak the top-end at all.
The top end doesn’t need tweaking. The bottom end is what’s OP.
Still ignoring the point, Bravo, your persistence is admirable.
I’m gonna be honest, I don’t think much of the guy and at this point I’m dismissing everything he says out of hand.
I’ll gladly go over what you think the point is, we can go over it that way. What I watched of the vidio looked pretty reducto ad absurdum again though.
I rewatched the video just for you Jerus (I’ll admit with some skimming), I’m honestly not even sure what the point is supposed to be, probably (and this is what I’m saying about youtube videos) because I’m not part of the intended audience who is having whatever point validated. I will say, yes, guild wars isn’t particularly hard. Also, fighting like that is it’s own punishment
The fact that he’s Breaking the TOS is more interesting than another stupid 13 minutes of autoattack vid.
All you people saying the damage reduction won’t affect anything should run all paths of HotW till the day of the update. Then come back and discuss something about “reducing damage.”
It’s really not going to take any more or less skill to beat the same mobs you’ve been fighting for the past 2 years because you have less damage.
Zerk or die.
I did all HotW path everyday for the collection and you are right. But that’s because HotW is so different in that regard compare to other dungeon. Even Arah have boss with lower hp than HotW. The issue there is more about the dungeon itself and not how much dmg we have.
There’s a long way to go until “pure damage” is not pretty much the only option.
Not only stats, effects and skills need to be changed. Also mechanics, creatures and all sorts of scripted content like events and other encounters, and even rewards.
There’s a long, long way to go. And you will probably won’t like all the improvements that must be done, but that won’t change that they will be improvements.
SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!
There’s a long way to go until “pure damage” is not pretty much the only option.
No offense, but the only reason full glass builds are used in PvE is that the players are skilled and experienced enough to use them without dying. It isn’t a fault of the game mechanics or skills or any of the other things you cited. It’s a symptom of the game being two years old and people having had plenty of time to practice all of these dungeons.
I bring this up whenever someone makes your spurious anti-meta argument, but all the DPS builds you see in speed clears are actually support/dps builds. When people make your argument I feel like they don’t understand this fact, and their lack of understanding means they either aren’t experienced enough, or just chime into conversations despite knowing little about the topic at hand.
I rewatched the video just for you Jerus (I’ll admit with some skimming), I’m honestly not even sure what the point is supposed to be, probably (and this is what I’m saying about youtube videos) because I’m not part of the intended audience who is having whatever point validated. I will say, yes, guild wars isn’t particularly hard. Also, fighting like that is it’s own punishment
The fact that he’s Breaking the TOS is more interesting than another stupid 13 minutes of autoattack vid.
The video (and many others) are to show that there is plenty of power in defensive builds. You can facetank Mossman and Lupi! Bosses that both can destroy meta builds in seconds.
The thing is it’s much slower playing defensively. People want to do things quickly. So they learn to put in some effort and play more efficiently which is why the Meta has become what it is, not what’s easiest, but what’s fastest.
What upsets people is not that defensive builds are bad, it’s that they’re slow and most people don’t want to play with people who use them.
What upsets people is not that defensive builds are bad, it’s that they’re slow and most people don’t want to play with people who use them.
Defensive builds are not just not bad they’re blatantly overpowered. You can sit there and facetank some of the hardest hitting bosses in the game -solo- and not die. That end of the spectrum is what should be nerfed.
Instead, what we’ve been getting patch after patch is nerfs to damage-centric builds which serve only to make content slower. As you noted, the lower level content became faster because of scaling -so fix that if it’s becoming cheesy- but there is no reason the top level content should be made slower and slower. It’s long enough as it is.
Yeah, I’m sure these nerfs are geared toward some cheesy builds in PvP like celestial ele and hambow warrior though – not exactly taking PvE as their first consideration. When it comes to PvE, they aren’t helping anyone who dislikes meta builds by nerfing meta builds – core concept design is totally flawed and using Soldier’s doesn’t grant much more survivability in PvE despite all the additional toughness and vitality…that core concept is absurd, soldier’s should propel a character to near-tank proportions.
Anyone who really thinks that isn’t true, I’d love for them to have a go at my guardian that dies in three hits to Mordrem anyway. Aegis, protection and utility defense is the only thing that keeps him alive, certainly not the gear.
The only PVE thing I still do is teq. I have got 4 zerker characters (3 thieves and one necro) and one soldier’s ranger. I’m in the same range with my ranger as with my thieves/necro and my ranger can mess up 10 times and still isn’t downed, wheras I can only mess up with my thieves once. Not sure about the necro. The fight is really boring with my ranger to be honest. He has got some glass canon trait set up, so no extra survivability or anything. The difference here might be that mordrems throw a lot of AOE while the waves at teq are only physical damage, so tankyness helps against physical damage, more health helps against condi damage. The trick is not to mess up which is impossible when it comes to pvp/wvw encounters and that’s where people really have to trade their stats. The changes for pve are minimal.
For one, Teq is a structure so nobody would see benefit from zerker because you can’t crit him. I guarantee if he could be crit, it’d be one hell of a different fight.
And Mordrem are all annoying. Every single mechanic they’ve used in Season 2 has been annoying and non-discriminating, which I find absurd. Before Season 2, with the vanilla game, Fractals and Season 1, there were some very easy to spot advantages for defense. Those died. A trend started is still a trend, and it’s a trend I would like to see die before it becomes any more discomforting. If I’m stuck in vanilla forever because new content they release is designed to not discriminate, what’s the point of playing at all? It effectively makes tanking or healing completely obsolete options – not just inefficient, but obsolete.
What upsets people is not that defensive builds are bad, it’s that they’re slow and most people don’t want to play with people who use them.
Defensive builds are not just not bad they’re blatantly overpowered. You can sit there and facetank some of the hardest hitting bosses in the game -solo- and not die. That end of the spectrum is what should be nerfed.
Instead, what we’ve been getting patch after patch is nerfs to damage-centric builds which serve only to make content slower. As you noted, the lower level content became faster because of scaling -so fix that if it’s becoming cheesy- but there is no reason the top level content should be made slower and slower. It’s long enough as it is.
Well said.
I wasn’t able to post for 5 days but I’ve been reading and I appreciate the fact that you, Jerus and several others have stood your ground for so long.
I don’t think I’d have been able to remain as patient.
