Guild Wars 2

^^ Exactly. Plus you are expecting total strangers to be completely honest with you. It won’t happen.

Personal survival means zero, zip, nada if they are not dpsing. You need a balance. MF/Vit/Toughness is worthless tbh.

Runes of the pirate were some of the cheapest runes to put in my exotics when I hit 80. The rare MF jewlery wasn’t too expensive either. Not all of us can afford high-stat gear and runes right off the bat. I’ll upgrade to Runes of Divinity and some exotic jewelry like Triforge when I can….But that may take some time, so I don’t see why I should be looked down on for my gear choice.

I really don’t see MF gear as being much of a penalty as it is. I’ve never had a problem with a team of 5 members clearing a dungeon, often with minimal deaths. That’s where knowing your class and having the skills to use it come into play. If I do 20% less damage than you but have the skills and knowledge to survive 30% longer than you, then regardless of my gear I’m still helping the team more than you are in your “good” gear.

Lastly, I’ll add that it’s not a requirement to have a full set of exotics with exotic runes and sigils to be able to run dungeons effectively. It certainly helps, but why does everyone feel it’s obligatory?

Theta Zero.9023:

That’s where knowing your class and having the skills to use it come into play. If I do 20% less damage than you but have the skills and knowledge to survive 30% longer than you, then regardless of my gear I’m still helping the team more than you are in your “good” gear.

This argument is used every single time, and it’s always flawed in the exact same way.

If you’re good enough to play better than a terrible player who uses good gear, despite using bad gear yourself, hooray for you.

You’re still worse than a better player using good gear.
You’re still worse than you would be if you used good gear.
And that terrible player would simply be even worse if he used bad gear.

You are providing a lesser contribution to your party when you wear MF gear than when you wear stat gear, and the bonuses that make up for that lack of performance are given exclusively to you, rather than shared among your party the way everything else in the game is designed to be.

Why should the game incentivize a player to penalize the entire party with rewards that apply to only that one player?

“It’s not that bad because…” will never be a satisfactory answer. Nobody cares whether it’s “Very bad”, “Moderately bad”, or “Only a little bad”. Tell me why it’s good.

Yes, you’ve really hit the nail on the head. Taking in MF screws your group but you get personally rewarded for it. Rewarding selfish behavior is not something that should EVER be implemented in a co-op game.

The realistic issue with MF in my opinion is we are forced to take MF gear for maximum farming efficiency, and this locks us out of our own near builds and gear we’ve worked so hard for.

If using MF gear in place of “combat” gear is so detrimental, why shouldn’t we scale dungeons to 80? Level 35’s shouldn’t be allowed to run AC.

Is this not the point you’re making? Players that bring down the efficiency of the group shouldn’t get to play with the group?

Or was the focus on the fact that a player in MF gear is selfish? Because that selfish person is still more efficient to use than a level 35…..

Also, isn’t Toughness and Vitality a selfish trait? Keeping yourself alive doesn’t lead to quicker kills or benefit your party in any way…

MF in gear is a really stupid concept, IMO. It should exist only as consumables.

I agree that MF should only exist as consumables.

Theta Zero.9023:

If using MF gear in place of “combat” gear is so detrimental, why shouldn’t we scale dungeons to 80? Level 35’s shouldn’t be allowed to run AC.

Is this not the point you’re making? Players that bring down the efficiency of the group shouldn’t get to play with the group?

Or was the focus on the fact that a player in MF gear is selfish? Because that selfish person is still more efficient to use than a level 35…..

Also, isn’t Toughness and Vitality a selfish trait? Keeping yourself alive doesn’t lead to quicker kills or benefit your party in any way…

Stop trying to tell me why it’s not that bad, and start trying to tell me why it’s good.

Why MF is good in dungeons: It gets you loot for yourself

Why MF gear is bad for dungeons

Thera Zaros your logic is flaws >.> Then by your logic the person who wants to keep main focus shouldn’t socket toughness or vit and die quicker so you can get main focus. Or maybe, you want to get 1 shotted by some aoes.

Per your request: Magic find equipment = More drops = More money = Better ability to upgrade to “combat gear” with good, useful stats. It’s true MF is a selfish stat, but remember that not everyone can afford good gear right off the bat. I believe it to be quite useful in the long run in that way.

My final points before I go sleep:
The way I see it, the problem doesn’t lie with “selfish” players, but with the fact that other people feeling like every stat needs to benefit the entire party. I personally think this is false logic; my gear, my money, my choice of how it benefits me. If those benefits roll over onto the group, awesome. If they don’t, oh well; you didn’t pay for my gear, I did.

And my points aren’t without merit. Level 35’s and Toughness and Vitality are JUST as useless in dungeons as magic-find gear is. You can’t tell ArenaNet they should change one feature when 3 others do the exact same thing. But you could ask them to remove all 4 features. That would be very fair and reasonable and I wouldn’t have any problem supporting it. I like well-formed arguments that take all the factors into account

Shaikhob.2863:

Thera Zaros your logic is flaws >.> Then by your logic the person who wants to keep main focus shouldn’t socket toughness or vit and die quicker so you can get main focus. Or maybe, you want to get 1 shotted by some aoes.

My point being, that benefits ME to stay alive longer. Once you meet the basic threshold where you’re no longer one-shot by an attack (which in some cases is your base values, and in other cases can be unobtainable for your build depending on the boss), any extra toughness is farily useless to the group.

Highly beneficial to the individual player, because staying alive longer is awesome….But useless to the group. One could argue increased DPS due to staying alive longer, but by socketing toughness, they’ve reduced their DPS to begin with, from their “potential dps.”

Sleep time for me, night

This is a ridiculous idea. It assumes all players are equal in gear and skill. That everyone is maximizing their stats and playing at the most efficient level possible. Essentially, all other things being totally equal between all members of the party, the guy that takes MF is contributing less.

But that’s not reality. In reality you could have a player in greens or rares that is just outright better than someone in full exotics. What do those stats mean if the player doesn’t know how to capitalize on their potential? They don’t mean squat, in case you were confused.

And shared MF is laughable. I know a Mesmer that uses a MF set and would bet money she would work circles around most of you. She is constantly on point and a top performer in dungeons. Meanwhile, I have pugged with players in high-end gear that were so pants on head stupid that I wished I could reach through the monitor and smack some sense into them. Now some of you are proposing players like the latter should get a stat bump from players like the former? Or that good players should not sacrifice stats they don’t need for an economy boost so they can carry more than their own weight and compensate for bad players?

You guys should think about this stuff before you just throw it out there.

It’s amazing you can specifically address a flawed argument multiple times in the same thread and yet people will just repeat it back at you

LightningBlaze.4913:

This thread is all about the following:
- Jealous people that feel angry that mf players get more rewards than them in dungeons. Pretty certain these players don’t have mf gear because they can’t afford them or contradict themselves with saying they “don’t want” that type of gear.
- People defending their mf gear benefits in dungeon and overall in pve.

I’m sure if all mf geared players would say “i didn’t get any good drop, mf sucks!” or better yet “I get more rare drops with normal gear than with mf” then this thread would be nonexistent. Nobody would care if they have members in their party with mf gears or whether they are dealing more/less dmg with that type of equipment. The “not contributing as much as the non-mf geared players” statement is simply a way to hide the real jealous emotions.

I am defending MF gear but I don’t have MF gear. I do however have toughness and vitality gear on account of being a guardian. Someone classified that as a selfish stats and there in lies the clux of the problem. Some people think full beserkers have no place in dungeons. Some people like high dps folks because of the speed of their kill. Some people think toughness and vitality are crap stats for team play and it goes on. Ultimately, I made a judgement call on my gear. You might disagree with them but all you can do is ask if a person has MF gear and if they do, don’t group with them. Singling out that stat in particular for rage is stupid. Value of all states is subjective.

Crater.1625:

It’s amazing you can specifically address a flawed argument multiple times in the same thread and yet people will just repeat it back at you

It’s not flawed. It makes perfect sense. If a player excels at damage avoidance and mitigation, then 40 extra toughness or vitality means little to them. So it goes in MF so that trait slot can be a benefit.

if that same person goes down less (because of what they excel at) than most other people in the party, then you cant say that stat is effecting you or anyone else because it never came in to play. So you have no business telling people what they should be using.

’nuff said.

Use magic find when you can play with your friends and full gear when you play with PUGs. In the end, completing the dungeon in a timely manner reliably is all that matters, and since you can’t count on pug gear or skill, it’s just better to base the magic find in your equipment on how difficult you think the run will be for your party.

Friendly reminder that very few people are “attacking” MF gear as a concept, and fewer still are angry at, jealous of, or hold any serious animosity toward people who use them.

People are simply pointing out that Magic Find is the only aspect of the game in which one player is incentivized to not help another player in their own party in favour of helping themself. There’s a reason that enemies in Guild Wars 2 drop different loot for each player, and there’s a reason that every player sees their own set of gathering nodes that other players can’t take away from them, and there’s a reason that every player who helps to kill an enemy gets full experience from that kill.
And for that exact same reason, Magic Find should be averaged across the entire party.

The only person who’s even so much as tried to offer an argument as to why Magic Find shouldn’t be averaged spat out a borderline incoherent rant about how he knows one player who is so awesome that in her presence the universe unravels and simple arithmetic ceases to exist.

Saying “hey, I don’t need this trait, it doesn’t help me, it doesn’t hurt anyone, Ill take MF instead” doesn’t break arithmetic. Its common sense…

Unlike expecting everyone to min/max traits (even ones they don’t need) thinking it will somehow help carry other people through content.

“LF2M FOTM Level 10 – exotics only no MF-gear allowed, post Gear in Chat”

Thank you Anet for bringing the GW1 Elitist-groups back, missed it so much.

Social/cooperative dilemmas are best solved by social methods.

If you’re strongly opinionated about M.F., talk with your gaming buddies about it.

There’s so many places in the game where you can behave selfishly or altruistically. MF% is only one.

Most dungeon runs go very smoothly, even if you eat omnom. And I’d wager most everyone in Orr is wearing +MF gear most of the time. I’m also suspicious that a lot of the posters claiming to hate MF have a set of Traveler’s of the Traveler in their bags.

Would be great to get a response from the Dev’s on this. It is a Broken mechanic that detracts from our gameplay. You can’t spin it any other way. I will be checking on thread each morning.

ZaiTh.6378:

Would be great to get a response from the Dev’s on this. It is a Broken mechanic that detracts from our gameplay. You can’t spin it any other way. I will be checking on thread each morning.

We got a response already, it’s go grind MF gear in the new dungeon.

William Fairfield.1428:

There is also a new MgF/Vit/Tuf in the Fractals. It’s called Wayfarer.

Why don’t you respond to some of the other threads? Scared you’ll get eaten alive?

Scutilla.3072:

I have been building my character gear sets with the intention of using no Magic Find on them, since I hate the idea of sacrificing combat efficiency for it even while soloing. Still, it sucks to run around Cursed Shore with two MF-equipped guildmates and watch them get four or five rares each while I never see anything more than a masterwork.

I got a MF set. Why? Because I liked the looks of the pirate set and I think MF fits with that look. At one point I’ll add a full set of sup pirate runes too. Why? Because I think it fits. I even got the pirate skins and transmuted three MF weapons (or rather, 2 as I miss the axe still) with them.

Did I see an increase in rares since I got that set? No. Actually, my last two rares I got while wearing my Knight’s set (which is my normal set) as did my only exotic so far. But I did notice an increase in fine materials, blues and greens. I also only use that set when I’m out there, alone. And bothering nobody but me.

All these guys saying MF is good in dungeon didn’t do Arah and all others that are against are good players looking for other good players for most challenging DUNGEONS (not this FoM whatever). That’s basicly it.

Soeki.9643:

Crater.1625:

…

My thoughts exactly. I haven’t thought about this MF is shared idea, but it’s certainly viable.

Also I understand that there are new MF sets out there, but that still doesn’t help the fact that they contribute less than those who don’t use them, and still get better loot for it.

It has to be an equal share, not an averaged amount spread across all players.

If you take magic find and only spread the average to each player, you will now find groups that require you to have a certain number of Magic Find. This happened in Diablo III.

If Magic Find is to be shared, it has to be shared equally to all players. One player has 200 magic find, all players should have 200 magic find.

The person using magic find is sacrificing a stat and requiring the group to make up for what they lack, why not have their MF apply to all group members.

illgot.1056:

Soeki.9643:

Crater.1625:

…

My thoughts exactly. I haven’t thought about this MF is shared idea, but it’s certainly viable.

Also I understand that there are new MF sets out there, but that still doesn’t help the fact that they contribute less than those who don’t use them, and still get better loot for it.

It has to be an equal share, not an averaged amount spread across all players.

If you take magic find and only spread the average to each player, you will now find groups that require you to have a certain number of Magic Find. This happened in Diablo III.

If Magic Find is to be shared, it has to be shared equally to all players. One player has 200 magic find, all players should have 200 magic find.

The person using magic find is sacrificing a stat and requiring the group to make up for what they lack, why not have their MF apply to all group members.

This is not bad idea.

That’s not a bad idea. The problems with it are:

1) Does every player gain 100% of every player’s MF bonus? It’s possible for a single player to reach 175% MF or so without using a booster or guild banner, and close to 250% with every possible bonus (maybe even a little higher, with Ascended MF accessories).
An entire group being able to run around with 1000-1250% Magic Find would be a little bit broken, I think, and drops would have to be lowered across the board in response, which is a net loss for anyone who doesn’t want to use any MF at all.

2) Does it simply give the entire team the benefit of the one player who has the highest Magic Find? In that case, there’s pressure on one specific player to be the designated MF bot, which means eking out every last percentage possible, regardless of cost (thinking of Boosters specifically here) or what it does to that one player’s overall performance.
I don’t know if consigning one player to be as weak as possible while the entire rest of the party attempts to be as strong as possible and ignore the stat entirely is necessarily a better option than the group having to decide, as a group, that everybody involved wants to use Magic Find.

Option 1, I think, is just off the table. Option 2 is reasonably fair, but has its own problems: Since only one person needs MF gear, then having one player with super high MF becomes a de facto necessity to any party interested in more than simply clearing the dungeon at all cost.
And since the rest of the party has to make absolutely no sacrifice at all to have maximum MF, that becomes the new standard, and every party that is even semi serious will be running with maximum Magic Find – which might throw off the game’s drop economy, and might require an across-the-board reduction in drop rates, like a smaller version of Option 1.

Whereas in the case where you take the mean average, then having maximum Magic Find becomes a team decision. I don’t know if it’s really all that discriminatory to be told “You need MF gear to come with this party”, because the added difficulty that results from the reduced effectiveness of an entire party running MF gear is something that I don’t think many PUG players are going to want to put up with.

In the end, they’re both perfectly fine solutions, but they both have drawbacks, and it’s a matter of which you think is most evil:
- The return of “Group LF Monk” from GW1, except in the form of “Group LF MF bot”, and the knowledge that all future loot tables are going to have to be designed knowing that every single serious group is going to have something close to +200% MF, party wide.

Or

- Groups that decide, as a group, to be much weaker in exchange for much better drops, will tell players to take a hike if they try to join without enough MF gear.

Both solutions are better than the current Prisoner’s Dilemma scenario.

Just put max cap on MF (team), it’s simple realy

Any smart person will run MF gear.

What is the downside of running MF gear?
Gives the best personal reward.
If others are using MF, well so are you so you aren’t carrying them. If the others aren’t using MF, good for you, your group is stronger and you gaining max rewards at max speed.

This kind of situation is called the Prisioner’s Dilemma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma.

orrrrr, just realize that as long as you passed the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time, that it doesn’t matter. Really, does it matter if you save 5 minutes in a dungeon if someone has more damage because of using a different stat other then MF.

It is just a game, don’t take it so seriously, min/maxing is not needed. Having 1 less stat that adds 5 minutes is negligible.

Just wear some MF gear, it will cause very little difference in the dungeon other then some better rewards.

eisberg.2379:

orrrrr, just realize that as long as you passed the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time, that it doesn’t matter. Really, does it matter if you save 5 minutes in a dungeon if someone has more damage because of using a different stat other then MF.

It is just a game, don’t take it so seriously, min/maxing is not needed. Having 1 less stat that adds 5 minutes is negligible.

Just wear some MF gear, it will cause very little difference in the dungeon other then some better rewards.

Wearing MF gear at Lupicus means you will probably die, and if someone ress you it’s good chance for wipe, so it adds wipes there, not “5 min more”. Your reply?

Sovta.4719:

eisberg.2379:

orrrrr, just realize that as long as you passed the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time, that it doesn’t matter. Really, does it matter if you save 5 minutes in a dungeon if someone has more damage because of using a different stat other then MF.

It is just a game, don’t take it so seriously, min/maxing is not needed. Having 1 less stat that adds 5 minutes is negligible.

Just wear some MF gear, it will cause very little difference in the dungeon other then some better rewards.

Wearing MF gear at Lupicus means you will probably die, and if someone ress you it’s good chance for wipe, so it adds wipes there, not “5 min more”. Your reply?

In my experience that is not true. You don’t even need exotic gear to get passed him, though it is recommended. Having about 14000 health is really the most important thing, and that can be achieved all the while still using some MF gear. Figuring out to pass the different phases, having 14K+ HP, and being skilled at your character is the most important, and all that can be achieved while still having some MF gear on.

dude, he one shots some of my teammates so what are you saying?

LightningBlaze.4913:

This is also a bad idea. Why should others benefit from the stats that these players have obtained from crafting/buying while in the dungeon they need to be more alert and perform better than the rest (in terms of not getting downed, reviving others, leading etc.. dmg is not what dungeon runs are all about). I have 3 different sets of gears and accessories (full dps, tanky and mf) on my ele. I can tell you running with mf gear, glass cannon traits I do even better than the rest of my group members that are running full berserker or tanky gears/traits but it is also a lot more challenging than when I run with my full dps or tanky based gear with the same traits.

I grind out a set of berzerker’s gear and do more dps. Whole group benefits from everything dying 10% faster (or whatever).

You grind out a set of noble gear and collect more items. You alone benefit while everyone else suffers because you are dying more or doing less damage or whatever.

See the problem?

Tinni.4351:

I say this over and over and over again until you guys get it. If your argument is that magic find doesn’t contribute to the group then that’s a slippery slope to gear discrimination hell. What about the newly level 80 who might be in a mix of blues and greens? Many level 80s think rares are a waste of money and so will wear greens until the can get dungeon exotics. And what about rares? Maybe person X can’t afford exotics and so are wearing rares. Where do you stop the descrimination if your argument against magic find is “group efficiency”? Because surely blues and greens also detract from group efficiency, as does rares.

Also, what about food? If you eat something, even level 5 stuff, you are that much more effective then if you eat nothing! If everybody in the group has a food buff and player X doesn’t, isn’t player X bringing down the group efficiency? This is an absurd argument! I am almost in favour of “work meters” that factor in damage, healing, res and other things just so we have concrete proof that magic find matters little.

But honestly, if magic find matters so much to you. Just say “no explorer/magic find gear”. That way, everybody who wears magic find can group together and that’ll be that!

I take lot of new lvl 80 from my guild to dungeon and i don’t mind them having lousy gears, everyone was at that stage before. For MF it’s different, now u have to invest into another gear for better loot and you do not dare change it out because of the fear of getting worst loot than your other geared members. This then tend too cause unwanted wipes in new content as everyone is not at their full potential and pugs where you were thinking that every1 could pull their weight as they are geared and experience but not always be the case as some bad players get carried using mf gear that never seem to learn the fights.

[quote=798940;eisberg.2379:]

eisberg.2379:

orrrrr, just realize that as long as you passed the dungeon in a reasonable amount of time, that it doesn’t matter. Really, does it matter if you save 5 minutes in a dungeon if someone has more damage because of using a different stat other then MF.

It is just a game, don’t take it so seriously, min/maxing is not needed. Having 1 less stat that adds 5 minutes is negligible.

Just wear some MF gear, it will cause very little difference in the dungeon other then some better rewards.

Is there an epidemic on our hands of people that can’t understand the reasoning of the thread? There is absolutely no such thing as common sense because after seeing the greediness and the lack of caring for other peoples time is unfortunate. What about the single Dev’s response to the thread? So the Game was made for young kids and grandmothers? Ok check.

Yes, ZaiTh let’s make the game socialist in partying so that all the money I spent on MF gear gets to be a benefit to YOU who thinks that DPS should be the only thing allowed in the ridiculously easy dungeons because of a marginal % difference.

If you want MF bonuses, buy your own gear. If you want to make sure that people aren’t wearing MF gear in a dungeon, well TOUGH. There is no check so you can’t discriminate. The game is about personal gain, not group gain. Each player gets their own random rewards. If I get an exotic I can’t use, I COULD give it to you (if you could use it) to be nice, or more than likely I’ll sell it for my own personal gain.

I seriously loathe people that think they are ENTITLED to something because its unfair. Go play Socialist Wars 2.

Since you start wearing MF at level 80 and not before, and since dungeons like AC and HotW are not level 80, I really don’t see the problem. At least until Arah.
Anyway, being a player who wears full MF gear, I cuncur with the people saying that MF is a statistic that shouldn’t be AT ALL in the game. I feel compelled to wear it if I want to make some money (because I hate farming for hours and the less I can farm, the better. Also, the economy is calibrated on MF now) even if I DO NOT LIKE wearing it at all, it spoils my fun by, de facto, removing me the choice on how to spec my character.
I don’t think they will ever remove it from the game, but I sincerely hope that they will.

For all those complaining about MF:

Have you actually compared damage output with MF gear vs gear with other stats? Have you actually compared damage output with MF gear vs lower tiered gear that a lot of people use? Have you considered player skill?

I think you’d be in for a shock.

Sumii.2845:

The game is about personal gain, not group gain.

Then explain why I can’t see or pick up items that enemies drop for other players, and explain why all players who help kill an enemy get equal experience, instead of giving it to the player who gets the kill shot or distributing it according to contribution.

Crater.1625:

Sumii.2845:

The game is about personal gain, not group gain.

Then explain why I can’t see or pick up items that enemies drop for other players, and explain why all players who help kill an enemy get equal experience, instead of giving it to the player who gets the kill shot or distributing it according to contribution.

You’re using the wrong logic. None of those have anything to do with personal gain in terms of this game.

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re using the wrong logic. None of those have anything to do with personal gain in terms of this game.

The only reason that they don’t have to do with personal gain is because mechanically, they have been made to have nothing to do with personal gain.

There are plenty of games where I can pick up everything that drops from an enemy, for all players. ArenaNet could have designed Guild Wars 2 to be one of those games – and they didn’t, enforcing even distribution and equality.

There are plenty of games where I get the sole or majority credit, experience and drop-wise, if I am either player who lands the killing blow or the player who deals the most damage. ArenaNet could have designed Guild Wars 2 to be one of those games – and they didn’t, enforcing even distribution and equality.

So what makes Magic Find different?

Ganzo.5079:

MF is a greedy stats. It NEVER and i say NEVER exist in this game.
How can the team pretend game cooperation, when they introduce something that improve only you drop rate instead of the team effectivness.

ANd please dont come to say that a skilled player can be effective even if he use a MF gear, because its simply not true… yeah maybe he dont die because he is skilled, but that stats lack, influence the WHOLE PARTY EXPERIENCE.

What the kitten? Mf IS and ALWAYS HAS BEEN in guildwars? Why are you saying in your first sentence it doesn’t exist? If thats a typo then YOU NEED to REALLY spellcheck your stuff. I myself make spelling mistakes but come on thats redic, you just claimed magic find never existed (in horrible grammar, i might add) in the game!.

TL;DR Version : Get rid of magic find stat magic find is an old and bad game mechanic, instead create more dropable temporary magic find buffs, make them a bigger part of the game – THIS is the future of magic find in gaming guys.

MF equipment is just a bad idea. I never use MF gear, instaid i always use tri-stat equipment. Condition builds like those i run only really work with condition damage, precision, and one defensive stat. I know from experience that anyone who runs a condition build without the defensive stat is painfully squishy (i know because its painfully hard to find rabid gear lower then 80, even HotW rare gear is 80 instaid of 75). The idea that someone would purposefully weaken himself, and by extent the group, out of personal greed is revolting.

It seems the community is split in two:

1) People who sacrifice the extra loot for the group. No matter how you look at it, no matter how easy a dungeon is (though true you won’t really see it’s negative effects in easier dungeons, cept for slower runs), MF is a selfish stat, which only benefits you. I won’t elaborate, many did before me, but the 2nd group should be happy about people who actually use 3 combat stat gear (faster, smoother runs). It’s obvious, but this group is against MF in this form, but with some rework it could workout well for everyone (like the shared MF idea, or just have MF as food buff, etc).

2) People who sacrifice combat effectiveness for the extra loot. No matter how skilled you are, if you would wear a 3 combat stat gear, you’d be better, you’d make your group’s life easier. But you decided to take the extra loot instead. If everyone would think the same way, and all would wear MF gear, trust me a lot more groups would fail. It seems like people in this group find MF gear mandatory.

As most of you probably guessed I’m against MF in dungeons. Outside of it, wear it all you want to but not at the expense of someone else. If you can make your teammates’ life easier why wouldn’t you?