Guild Wars 2

phokus.8934:

The real problem is not knowing exactly how it modifies the loot (other than adding a flat percent increase… to what, though?) roll because we just don’t know how loot is determined.

And the real question is why should you even care? Inventory become full every hour or so and you get a million billion essences from salvaging all the crap. Sure you wont go from 100 to 200% in a day, but you will get there sooner or later. Its inevitable.

phokus.8934:

Magic Find is like religion – when you find something good you praise it but when you don’t, you cast it aside.

The real problem is not knowing exactly how it modifies the loot (other than adding a flat percent increase… to what, though?) roll because we just don’t know how loot is determined.

There are controlled tests to determine the sorts of things that change with higher MF, notably: (on average) fewer whites & blues, more greens and rares (and probably more exotics, but the drop rate is too low relative to the drop data). There are also seems to be more stuff.

The way I view it: the actual number of MF doesn’t tell us anything that helps us decide how much time/effort to spend to get more. However, all things being equal, it’s in my best interest to acquire more sooner rather than later.

Therefore, whenever I’m in a high-kill zone, I use MF foods (assuming I don’t need them for anything else), boosters, and banners. I salvage rather than sell blues & greens worth less than “lots of silver”, and if I’m close to another +1%, I salvage some ecto to put me over.

One of the things many players don,t do is kill yellow creatures on their map, that is flies, boars, pigs etc. These animals are directly affected by MF and also the length of time they have been there without being killed. As MF increases, you should get more drops and better drops from these creatures, however, it is zone dependent, so the higher the zone the better the drops. Also, when a thief steals is also dependent on MF. Drops from stealing use MF and stealing on my thief is a major part of this character.

Rush is Right.9723:

These animals are directly affected by MF and also the length of time they have been there without being killed.

The second part affects only xp, not drops as far as i know. And the drop tables themselves for those mobs aren’t that good.
Normal trash mobs however? Yes, you should definitely go for those. There’s always a ton of them, and with good mf, if you keep killing them, getting yellow drops becomes a generally common occurence. Or even better, if you’re lucky, but i wouldn’t reliably count on that.

At 130-ish MF, I get more rares from trash mobs than Champs.

Occasionally RNG is buggy. This is a classic example from another game:

http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Wi_Flag

Rush is Right.9723:

also the length of time they have been there without being killed. .

That would be a very odd and expensive thing to process and maintain, how do you know this out of curiosity?

Jaymee.1560:

Okay, I am getting very tired of this debate that is, what I call and age-old bicker, in-game about whether MF works or doesn’t work.

If your trying to roll a 6, and have 1 die, you may eventually roll a 6.

If I give you two die, your chances of rolling a 6 will increase. You may never roll a six, but your better off than you were.

Magic find.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Rush is Right.9723:

also the length of time they have been there without being killed. .

That would be a very odd and expensive thing to process and maintain, how do you know this out of curiosity?

This was a feature of the game at launch. If you’ve ever killed a mob and it showed you bonus XP, the bonus comes from killing a mob that hasn’t been killed in a while. You can test it yourself by killing yellow mobs and waiting for them to respawn and killing them again. The longer you wait to kill them again, the more bonus XP they will grant.

Like the diminishing returns on loot farming code (that they eventually got rid of) it is a system intended to reward and encourage exploration rather than sitting in one place farming.

It does not, to my knowledge, increase the loot gained from these mobs though, only the XP.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Within the limitations of MF (it only works on loot dropped from foes you kill and containers that substitute for the same, plus a tiny number of oddball exceptions), accounts with high MF will, over time, end up with more valuable loot.

Like any RNG system, high MF won’t guarantee you get the unlikeliest of drops and it won’t guarantee that you’ll always have good drops. It just ensures that you’ll have better results than you would have without high MF.

Did you forget that every RNG based system has what are known as statistical anomalies and out-liers ?

This means that the person with x may (generally does in the case of GW2 from personal experiences) have better luck than the person with x+200%. Even more to the point, if MF is such a great boon (300% base) then on average no player should go without seeing a random rare(quality) drop in an average hour long play session. But i can guarantee it happens more often than it statistically should.

Oh, it has a difference all right, but its a very small difference. For example, if you have a .001% of getting a precursor, it would change at 300% to .004%, which is still incredibly low.

I watched a video from someone who decided to test it, and ground out a new account with tests at 0%, and every like 50% increments or so on and recorded the results. He reported he DID see an increase in loot, but it was also marginal. As such he concluded that he thought it was worth it to raise MF when its easy to do so, and once it starts getting hard, just raise it as you move along.

EDIT: Those numbers may not be exact, its been several months since I saw the video. I’ll see if I can find it if anyone cares.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Within the limitations of MF (it only works on loot dropped from foes you kill and containers that substitute for the same, plus a tiny number of oddball exceptions), accounts with high MF will, over time, end up with more valuable loot.

Like any RNG system, high MF won’t guarantee you get the unlikeliest of drops and it won’t guarantee that you’ll always have good drops. It just ensures that you’ll have better results than you would have without high MF.

TexZero.7910:

Did you forget that every RNG based system has what are known as statistical anomalies and out-liers ?

This means that the person with x may (generally does in the case of GW2 from personal experiences) have better luck than the person with x+200%. Even more to the point, if MF is such a great boon (300% base) then on average no player should go without seeing a random rare(quality) drop in an average hour long play session. But i can guarantee it happens more often than it statistically should.

Read what you quoted again. It covers the fact that high MF can be unluckier than low MF, over any given period of time. There are no guarantees. All that high MF offers is a better chance to get modestly better loot; it doesn’t ensure good loot and it certainly doesn’t promise great loot.

It’s a complete misunderstanding of RNG to suggest that 300% base MF absolutely prevents you from going an hour without a rare — you cannot guarantee that it happens often, let alone more than it statistically should, because none of us have the data to demonstrate one way or another. That’s without even looking at the fact that it greatly matters what you are doing within that hour of time. (The number of chances to benefit from MF are limited by how many loot-bearing foes you kill, not how much time you spend farming.)

You seem to want to believe that 300% MF sets some sort of ‘floor’ on the lowest quality of loot you get — it does not. It merely increases the chances on each kill that you’ll get better loot.

Although GW2 loot doesn’t work like the example below, I hope this illustrates the point better. Imagine loot is allocated on the roll of an imaginary, 1,000-sided die. Without MF, you get an exotic if you roll 1,000, a rare if you roll 981-999 — that’s ~0.1% chance of exotic & 1.9% for rares (inaccurate numbers used to illustrate the point).

Suppose then that a 300% MF meant you never rolled 1-300, only 301-1,000. In that case, your chances of getting an exotic become 1/700 = 0.14% and of rare 19/700 = 2.7% — that’s still extremely low for both. That’s low enough that 4 people in 1,000 are still not going to see are rare in 200 tries (most people longer than an hour to kill that many loot-bearing foes).

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t. That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

Imagine yourself in that 4-5% that is constantly unlucky….Now you can see why they say magicfind means jack all. Imagine yourself in the 30% that is somewhere just outside of that but not at the “average” its still feels real bad. If your near average or above it it feels fine….however that doesn’t mean the system at play is working as it should be.

TexZero.7910:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t. That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

No, it doesn’t. I mean, it does, but only when you consider rare loot. If you look at the blue-green range however, even the unluckiest account will see change. And most of your drops fall in that range.

Well, they would see, if they were looking – but we tend to concentrate only on the best loot, and ignore the more common drops completely.

So, when you deal with statistical data, do not just ignore over 90% of that data before you start making assumptions based on results.

TexZero.7910:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t. That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

Imagine yourself in that 4-5% that is constantly unlucky….Now you can see why they say magicfind means jack all. Imagine yourself in the 30% that is somewhere just outside of that but not at the “average” its still feels real bad. If your near average or above it it feels fine….however that doesn’t mean the system at play is working as it should be.

Your basing your theory that outliers are not outliers based on what facts? – anecdotal story telling in gaming forums? ‘feeling’ has nothing to do with probability, its the overall data distribution that matters. Even if Outliers were getting skewed by some flaw, that doesn’t detract from the benefit of MF, even the unlucky Outlier gets benefit from MF.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

TexZero.7910:

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t.

What’s your evidence that it doesn’t?

TexZero.7910:

That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

Again, what’s your evidence? Do you have data for anyone’s “lifetime of play”? Do you have data for even a month of your gaming, never mind anyone else’s? What is the statistical average to which you want to compare your results?

I collect tons of data about my gaming and even I don’t have a month’s worth of data about foe drops; it’s just way too tedious to collect.

TexZero.7910:

Imagine yourself in that 4-5% that is constantly unlucky….

No, I can’t imagine that because I have no way of knowing if I’m that group or not — nor does anyone else. People are extraordinarily bad at measuring lucky streaks

For example: not that long ago, I forged a set of 120 masterwork weapons and got a single promotion and I was convinced ‘something’ had been nerfed, since the expected average should have been 6 — felt bad, man.

5 minutes later, I picked up another 32 and forged those. I should have gotten 1 or 2 rares; instead, I got 8. And my human reaction wasn’t: “oh wow, that was extraordinary” — instead, it was “right, I was due that, because of the bad rolls 5 minutes ago.” The former is true (that was a good streak); the latter is not (RNG doesn’t care about the luck you had for breakfast).

TexZero.7910:

Now you can see why they say magicfind means jack all.

No, that doesn’t show me why some people say MF means jack all — it’s an example of how people misunderstand RNG and MF. People that collect data have show it means something; people who don’t collect data feel that it doesn’t. But feelings are not evidence; they are just a good motivator for doing more research.

TexZero.7910:

Imagine yourself in the 30% that is somewhere just outside of that but not at the “average” its still feels real bad.

Here’s the thing: most people with just average luck feel as if they have bad luck. They remember bad streaks; they discount average streaks entirely and barely remember good streaks.

It’s not meaningful, statistically, to say that it “feels bad” — that’s a useful thing for Mike O’Brian to consider when deciding whether make a skin RNG-based. However, it does not help to determine if MF matters in the long run to most people or not.

TexZero.7910:

If your near average or above it it feels fine

Actually, no. People near average also feel like they have bad luck a lot of the time, too. Even people with good luck sometimes are convinced it’s not that good, because, as I’ve said, they remember the bad streaks more strongly than the good ones.

We’re just really bad at evaluating how lucky (or unlucky) we are.

TexZero.7910:

….however that doesn’t mean the system at play is working as it should be.

How people feel doesn’t have anything to do with whether the system is working as intended.

All of the above is a distraction: MF works. All controlled tests show that more MF delivers, on average, modestly better loot than if you don’t have it. (Since it only applies to foe drops, it only affects a tiny fraction of containers — mostly those that are intended to replace foe drops for PvP reward tracks.)

It’s an entirely separate question as to whether RNG is a good method for distributing loot. The consensus is usually: no, not really; it’s just less bad than any other single system. Somewhat less bad than RNG is a mix of RNG + coin + scavenger hunt + tokens, with no one agreeing about what makes for the best mix.

I apologize I didnt bring to bring back this topic, I replied a little late to a comment made here on page 1 lol.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr Magic Find matters over the lifetime of your gaming; it means your loot will be modestly better on average. Over any shorter period, there aren’t any guarantees. Anyone can be unlucky and anyone can get lucky.

TexZero.7910:

I’m well aware that it means over a longer period of time it should mean it’s better, what I’m saying is that it doesn’t.

What’s your evidence that it doesn’t?

TexZero.7910:

That the due to the way it works, the amount of outliers in the current system current outweighs the intended statistical average even over a “lifetimes” play.

Again, what’s your evidence? Do you have data for anyone’s “lifetime of play”? Do you have data for even a month of your gaming, never mind anyone else’s? What is the statistical average to which you want to compare your results?

I collect tons of data about my gaming and even I don’t have a month’s worth of data about foe drops; it’s just way too tedious to collect.

TexZero.7910:

Imagine yourself in that 4-5% that is constantly unlucky….

No, I can’t imagine that because I have no way of knowing if I’m that group or not — nor does anyone else. People are extraordinarily bad at measuring lucky streaks

For example: not that long ago, I forged a set of 120 masterwork weapons and got a single promotion and I was convinced ‘something’ had been nerfed, since the expected average should have been 6 — felt bad, man.

5 minutes later, I picked up another 32 and forged those. I should have gotten 1 or 2 rares; instead, I got 8. And my human reaction wasn’t: “oh wow, that was extraordinary” — instead, it was “right, I was due that, because of the bad rolls 5 minutes ago.” The former is true (that was a good streak); the latter is not (RNG doesn’t care about the luck you had for breakfast).

TexZero.7910:

Now you can see why they say magicfind means jack all.

No, that doesn’t show me why some people say MF means jack all — it’s an example of how people misunderstand RNG and MF. People that collect data have show it means something; people who don’t collect data feel that it doesn’t. But feelings are not evidence; they are just a good motivator for doing more research.

TexZero.7910:

Imagine yourself in the 30% that is somewhere just outside of that but not at the “average” its still feels real bad.

Here’s the thing: most people with just average luck feel as if they have bad luck. They remember bad streaks; they discount average streaks entirely and barely remember good streaks.

It’s not meaningful, statistically, to say that it “feels bad” — that’s a useful thing for Mike O’Brian to consider when deciding whether make a skin RNG-based. However, it does not help to determine if MF matters in the long run to most people or not.

TexZero.7910:

If your near average or above it it feels fine

Actually, no. People near average also feel like they have bad luck a lot of the time, too. Even people with good luck sometimes are convinced it’s not that good, because, as I’ve said, they remember the bad streaks more strongly than the good ones.

We’re just really bad at evaluating how lucky (or unlucky) we are.

TexZero.7910:

….however that doesn’t mean the system at play is working as it should be.

How people feel doesn’t have anything to do with whether the system is working as intended.

---

All of the above is a distraction: MF works. All controlled tests show that more MF delivers, on average, modestly better loot than if you don’t have it. (Since it only applies to foe drops, it only affects a tiny fraction of containers — mostly those that are intended to replace foe drops for PvP reward tracks.)

It’s an entirely separate question as to whether RNG is a good method for distributing loot. The consensus is usually: no, not really; it’s just less bad than any other single system. Somewhat less bad than RNG is a mix of RNG + coin + scavenger hunt + tokens, with no one agreeing about what makes for the best mix.

The best system, is the best of both worlds, a token based system with a RNG element, just enough predictable drops so you don’t feel is as if bad luck means you dont progress, and just enough RNG that drops and opening boxes are interesting. The nonsense that some people are some how disadvantaged in the luck department due to a bug or mechanic is really born out of ignorance of programming and probability.

You know, guys… If you have to ask whether or not magic find is “useful”, then is probably isn’t… Can we close this thread now? You’re welcome…

In the long term magic find is useful (mostly zerg style event farms like in Orr), in the short term not so much. Will you notice it? Depends on how fast you leveled up magic find. You get more rares/exotics with high magic find. Cost as much as a legendary in greens(assuming you are not doing it the profitable way) or as much as a HoT legendary salvaging ectoplasm to get 300% magic find in luck.

Its difficult to say if maxing magic find will pay for itself over the long run. Its costed 1500g with greens to max. Overtime I had a handful of precursor drop, I rarely go a week without a exotic drop from a mob but I am a very active player.

carabidus.6214:

You know, guys… If you have to ask whether or not magic find is “useful”, then is probably isn’t… Can we close this thread now? You’re welcome…

Or the person asking the question isn’t aware of how probability works with RNG. And how multiplying a small chance by 300% doesn’t make it a high chance of actually happening.

Seems pretty useless to me. Maxed MF and 2200+ hours, still never found a precursor.

RNG is RNG. You’re either lucky or you’re not.

Like you buy three lotto tickets instead of one, it’s not like you’re significantly increasing your chance to win, it’s still a drop in the ocean.

Or..this thread went way off-topic as the OP asked if MF banners are useful for opening the chests below the city of Tarir.

Which they aren’t, as those chests are not affected by Magic Find.

Esquilax.3491:

Seems pretty useless to me. Maxed MF and 2200+ hours, still never found a precursor.

RNG is RNG. You’re either lucky or you’re not.

Like you buy three lotto tickets instead of one, it’s not like you’re significantly increasing your chance to win, it’s still a drop in the ocean.

300 times 0.00001% is .003% Which means you go from a 1 in 100,000 chance to 3 in 3000 chance. Both of which can result in a trial of 2000 drops not yield a single precursor.

It’s useless if you’re getting it simply to get a precursor, you’re not going to be able to get it high enough to make the chances of it even remotely in the realm of reasonable to expect to get one in the very short term. It’s useful if you want to over the long run get better/more loot. Better means more greens and blues than whites or nothing. Better loot doesn’t mean a lot more rares and exotics. Especially when drop tables always include whites, greens, and blues.

Seera.5916:

Esquilax.3491:

Seems pretty useless to me. Maxed MF and 2200+ hours, still never found a precursor.

RNG is RNG. You’re either lucky or you’re not.

Like you buy three lotto tickets instead of one, it’s not like you’re significantly increasing your chance to win, it’s still a drop in the ocean.

300 times 0.00001% is .003% Which means you go from a 1 in 100,000 chance to 3 in 3000 chance. Both of which can result in a trial of 2000 drops not yield a single precursor.

It’s useless if you’re getting it simply to get a precursor, you’re not going to be able to get it high enough to make the chances of it even remotely in the realm of reasonable to expect to get one in the very short term. It’s useful if you want to over the long run get better/more loot. Better means more greens and blues than whites or nothing. Better loot doesn’t mean a lot more rares and exotics. Especially when drop tables always include whites, greens, and blues.

Um.... not even close on any the math or numbers. You forgot MF is a linear increase
 of a percentile going from 100% (+0%MF) to 400% (+300%). So it's not 300 times 
anything. It's 0.00001% @ 100% (+0%MF) to  0.00004% @ 400% (+300%MF).

Also, 0.003% isnt 3/3000, it’s 3/100,000, and 0.00001% isnt 1/100,000, it’s 1/10,000,000.

edit: had to use the preformed coding tag to get it to show right.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Seera.5916:

Esquilax.3491:

Seems pretty useless to me. Maxed MF and 2200+ hours, still never found a precursor.

RNG is RNG. You’re either lucky or you’re not.

Like you buy three lotto tickets instead of one, it’s not like you’re significantly increasing your chance to win, it’s still a drop in the ocean.

300 times 0.00001% is .003% Which means you go from a 1 in 100,000 chance to 3 in 3000 chance. Both of which can result in a trial of 2000 drops not yield a single precursor.

It’s useless if you’re getting it simply to get a precursor, you’re not going to be able to get it high enough to make the chances of it even remotely in the realm of reasonable to expect to get one in the very short term. It’s useful if you want to over the long run get better/more loot. Better means more greens and blues than whites or nothing. Better loot doesn’t mean a lot more rares and exotics. Especially when drop tables always include whites, greens, and blues.

Um.... not even close on any the math or numbers. You forgot MF is a linear increase
 of a percentile going from 100% (+0%MF) to 400% (+300%). So it's not 300 times 
anything. It's 0.00001% @ 100% (+0%MF) to  0.00004% @ 400% (+300%MF).

Also, 0.003% isnt 3/3000, it’s 3/100,000, and 0.00001% isnt 1/100,000, it’s 1/10,000,000.

edit: had to use the preformed coding tag to get it to show right.

Near as anyone can tell, MF’s impact is more complicated than linear, because the loot tables are more complicated. In any case: the point is that MF isn’t going to cause anyone to find a precursor — it will help, but not noticeably. Its benefit is modest, in the overall quality of loot (think: more greens & rares, fewer whites and blues) and only over hundreds and hundreds of kill-based drops.

Well, given that it’s a +%, just like the other bonuses, I’m going off the logical assumption that it’s a linear impact on loot drops. Sure it’s possibly more complicated, but as far as I can remember, we’ve had devs state that it improves your drop odds. By which we can assume starts at 100% of something. For all we know, you could be rolling what amounts to a 1dX die, X being the total number of lootable items in the game, with some “no loots” sprinkled in. Thus MF acts as a multiplicative modifier of your roll result, determining what it is you gain. I’m almost certain its going to be more complex than that, but it could also BE that simple.

This might clarify:

“Everytime you kill a monster you roll on a number of tables, inside these tables are different rarity categories. Magic find increases the chances you will get higher categories. For example if there is a 1 in 10 category, and you have 200% magic find you will have 3/10 chances to get that category. This improves not just the rarity of the items you get but can also improve your chances at getting trophies and rare crafting materials like lodestones.” -Isiah Cartwright

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

This might clarify:

“Everytime you kill a monster you roll on a number of tables, inside these tables are different rarity categories. Magic find increases the chances you will get higher categories. For example if there is a 1 in 10 category, and you have 200% magic find you will have 3/10 chances to get that category. This improves not just the rarity of the items you get but can also improve your chances at getting trophies and rare crafting materials like lodestones.” -Isiah Cartwright

Thank you, that is indeed what I was referring to. That being said, it’s probably more accurate to say that MF doesnt give you better loot, it gives you a better chance at loot.

Magic Find is very useful. The problem is we are not able to see it; think of it this way:

If you have 300% magic find and you roll maybe 1,000 times let’s say that 200 of those times what would have been a grey drop became a green drop 100 of those times what would have become a green drop became a blue drop and 50 of those times what would have become a blue drop became a yellow and 5 of those times what would have been yellow became orange.

Cumulatively that is a massive difference; you will make much more money off of this set-up. Incrementally this is terrible; if you’re looking for the 5 exotics you’re simply seeing part of the whole picture and of course when you look at anything wrong you get the wrong impression.

So MF works and is worth investing in. Anet took the pressure off though by removing it from armor and just making it account bound. There is a caveat though:

You are indeed wasting your gems and laurels. While MF is linear that means that incremental additions tend to be weaker. For instance if you have 300% MF without food or banners or anything else adding 50% isn’t going to do as much as if you only had 100%. It’s about a 17% improvement. Depends on who you are but I don’t consider that enough of a buffer, esp. when you have to consider the opportunity cost, but that’s just me.

MF is pretty much useless until y ou get 300% and even then it wont mean anything on items with less than 1% drop chance

Sitting at over 300% and not seen any difference in drops since launch.

Sird.4536:

Sitting at over 300% and not seen any difference in drops since launch.

What percentage of your drops at launch were whites|blues|greens|rares? What are the ratios now? How do you know you’re not seeing any difference in drops?

The benefits are modest, not drastic; they can’t be seen over an hour of farming and they can’t be seen without measuring & comparing drop rates.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

TexZero.7910:

Not useful in the slightest.RNG is RNG and no amount of MF will change players having no good RNG.

Sadly, this.

Agreed, it’s more like a pacifier when you have a crying baby.

Sird.4536:

Sitting at over 300% and not seen any difference in drops since launch.

Imagine watching the hour hand on a clock, now imagine increasing its speed by a minute % you cant see it, but its going faster. This is what you are doing, you are trying to ‘see’ an increase in change without a meaningful sample size.

What happen after you max MF? Do you still get more and more of those anoying charges?

Aidan Savage.2078:

Seera.5916:

Esquilax.3491:

Seems pretty useless to me. Maxed MF and 2200+ hours, still never found a precursor.

RNG is RNG. You’re either lucky or you’re not.

Like you buy three lotto tickets instead of one, it’s not like you’re significantly increasing your chance to win, it’s still a drop in the ocean.

300 times 0.00001% is .003% Which means you go from a 1 in 100,000 chance to 3 in 3000 chance. Both of which can result in a trial of 2000 drops not yield a single precursor.

It’s useless if you’re getting it simply to get a precursor, you’re not going to be able to get it high enough to make the chances of it even remotely in the realm of reasonable to expect to get one in the very short term. It’s useful if you want to over the long run get better/more loot. Better means more greens and blues than whites or nothing. Better loot doesn’t mean a lot more rares and exotics. Especially when drop tables always include whites, greens, and blues.

Um.... not even close on any the math or numbers. You forgot MF is a linear increase
 of a percentile going from 100% (+0%MF) to 400% (+300%). So it's not 300 times 
anything. It's 0.00001% @ 100% (+0%MF) to  0.00004% @ 400% (+300%MF).

Also, 0.003% isnt 3/3000, it’s 3/100,000, and 0.00001% isnt 1/100,000, it’s 1/10,000,000.

edit: had to use the preformed coding tag to get it to show right.

.00001 is 1/100,000. 1/10,000,000 is 1e-7 or .0000001.

As to the other calculation, you are correct. .00001 with 300% Mr would .00004 or 4/100,000.

But either way, the gist of what I said is right. The increase doesn’t increase the chances enough for a small sample size to even begin to show any possible problems.

Ardid.7203:

What happen after you max MF? Do you still get more and more of those anoying charges?

You do if you keep salvaging blues/greens.

And some from daily login special events like chinese new years

Seera.5916:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Seera.5916:

Esquilax.3491:

Seems pretty useless to me. Maxed MF and 2200+ hours, still never found a precursor.

RNG is RNG. You’re either lucky or you’re not.

Like you buy three lotto tickets instead of one, it’s not like you’re significantly increasing your chance to win, it’s still a drop in the ocean.

300 times 0.00001% is .003% Which means you go from a 1 in 100,000 chance to 3 in 3000 chance. Both of which can result in a trial of 2000 drops not yield a single precursor.

It’s useless if you’re getting it simply to get a precursor, you’re not going to be able to get it high enough to make the chances of it even remotely in the realm of reasonable to expect to get one in the very short term. It’s useful if you want to over the long run get better/more loot. Better means more greens and blues than whites or nothing. Better loot doesn’t mean a lot more rares and exotics. Especially when drop tables always include whites, greens, and blues.

Um.... not even close on any the math or numbers. You forgot MF is a linear increase
 of a percentile going from 100% (+0%MF) to 400% (+300%). So it's not 300 times 
anything. It's 0.00001% @ 100% (+0%MF) to  0.00004% @ 400% (+300%MF).

Also, 0.003% isnt 3/3000, it’s 3/100,000, and 0.00001% isnt 1/100,000, it’s 1/10,000,000.

edit: had to use the preformed coding tag to get it to show right.

.00001 is 1/100,000. 1/10,000,000 is 1e-7 or .0000001.

As to the other calculation, you are correct. .00001 with 300% Mr would .00004 or 4/100,000.

But either way, the gist of what I said is right. The increase doesn’t increase the chances enough for a small sample size to even begin to show any possible problems.

You are both right and wrong depending on how lenient one is with their math. The confusion lies with the % sign.

.00001 is 1/100,000 – yes.
but .00001% is not 1/100,000 since 1% is already 1/100th. It is in fact 1/10,000,000.

Essentially by putting the % sign at the end, you are dividing the number by another 100.

Ardid.7203:

What happen after you max MF? Do you still get more and more of those anoying charges?

Yeah they keep dropping. I’ve continued to buy and salvage items from the TP. I now have 94 stacks of exotic essence of luck in storage. Hopefully Anet will come up with a secondary use for them in the future.

I’ve had max MF for over 2 years, what I’ve found is that the loot that drops will, on an average, be better. That means rares and exotics don’t rain down, it means I see more blue and green loot than a player w/ lower MF. It also means that the materials that drop are a higher quality ON AN AVERAGE. Even with maximum Magic Find, Guild Wars 2 is not a game that rewards “phat loot”. What I found aggravating was Anet’s use of containers that bypass player’s Magic Find.

Was it worth buying and salvaging nonstop for 5 months? Yeah, I had fun doing it and by purchasing the correct items made some gold.

Zet.9130:

Ardid.7203:

What happen after you max MF? Do you still get more and more of those anoying charges?

Yeah they keep dropping. I’ve continued to buy and salvage items from the TP. I now have 94 stacks of exotic essence of luck in storage. Hopefully Anet will come up with a secondary use for them in the future.

Guilds need 777 of them for the guild hall expansion upgrade as well as a couple other various upgrades.

I bet you could sell them to someone, or help your own guild out.

When you accept the fact that the only sure-fire way to get anything substantial in-game is via collection rewards, map rewards, and what you can buy off the TP with gold, you’ll be alot better off, and less stressed about trying to figure it out.

I naturally do every champion event, expecting 2 blues and 1 green, that converts into a tiny bit of luck, and an elder wood log, or chunk of mythril ore. I find that 99% of the time, i’m rarely disappointed, and therefore are never unhappy with the rewards, with or without magic find.

slamfunction.7462:

When you accept the fact that the only sure-fire way to get anything substantial in-game is via collection rewards, map rewards, and what you can buy off the TP with gold, you’ll be alot better off, and less stressed about trying to figure it out.

I naturally do every champion event, expecting 2 blues and 1 green, that converts into a tiny bit of luck, and an elder wood log, or chunk of mythril ore. I find that 99% of the time, i’m rarely disappointed, and therefore are never unhappy with the rewards, with or without magic find.

It’s a side effect of the shared trading post. In a game world where each server is self-contained, they can somewhat control the economy by limiting the ability to transfer between servers – by charging a real-money fee, for example, and/or limiting the number of times someone can transfer. So items that are plentiful on one server may be in short supply (and thus more expensive) on another. Players then need to decide whether the stock they have to sell is potentially worth the expense of using their limited ability to transfer to a higher-demand server.

But here, instead of transferring to sell your items, they are all thrown onto the same pile regardless of where the items originated. Say you are crafting and doing events to stockpile rares/exotics to sell on the TP. Instead of competing with a few hundred other players on your server doing the same thing, you are competing with tens of thousands across the entire region.

This means that supply/demand is the same for every player who shares the same TP, which has both positive and negative effects. It reduces shortages but makes it harder to make huge profits by “flipping” items from one server’s TP to another. It’s also the reason why rares and exotics are much more plentiful than the devs originally intended – if you can’t use an item, it’s easy to put it on the TP and sell it to someone else who can.

So, unless they rewrite the entire TP system to separate the servers into self-contained markets, even a small increase in gold production or loot drops will be compounded many times over as a result of X servers’ worth of players all dumping their stuff onto one TP.