Guild Wars 2

Most mmo’s die because they don’t seem to be prepared for all of the issues post release and fall behind…deeper and deeper until I am sure they have great intentions to address all of the issues….they just can’t do it in time before players lose attention and leave.

It isnt just the funding whether its B2p or subscription… but the management of those funds, the support teams behind the game, and the priorities of all those departments.

Id be willing to pay $15 a month or even $20!! (considering a 2 hour move is $12-14 or w/e it is at the movie theater) If I knew that the company that was behind an MMO had a proper sized team in place for post release to NOT ONLY take care of issues….but MULTI TASK in all areas that were important to the player base so they could be taken care of in a more reasonable time frame.

Tackling bugs, bots, exploits, and nerfing for the first 1-2 months of release just isnt enough and this isnt the only game to fall into that category. Players expect those issues but class balance and more positive and fun changes should accompany them. That should start day one and be independent of other major issues.

The best advertisement is word of mouth. If your friends are bashing the game or are actually positive but just not excited enough to log in and show face in guild chat….that speaks wonders and will start the avalanche. You all have seen it..if not in this mmo…others.

It is becoming predictable. I cant remember the last MMO that didnt advertise that they were hiring within the first month or 2 of release. Great planning. It is pretty costly to hire and train new people last minute when the clock is ticking.

Post release has become far more important these days and it really really annoys me that mmo developers aren’t seeing this and keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Im sure that this will be deleted soon but post your thoughts…

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

APB is the only one I know of (All Points Bulletin)… A GTA style MMO. Shut down within 3 months lol

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You need to know more people then. I know plenty that actively play all those you named.

Just because the games arent as popular as WoW doesnt mean that none of them are a success.

Sin.8174:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

APB is the only one I know of (All Points Bulletin)… A GTA style MMO. Shut down within 3 months lol

Faxion online only managed 3 months before shutting its doors aswell, loved that game,still miss it.

Sin.8174:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

APB is the only one I know of (All Points Bulletin)… A GTA style MMO. Shut down within 3 months lol

Hmm didn’t know that. I downloaded APB on steam (free to play) probably 6 months ago. Really good game.

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You’re the expert… so their servers are shut down, hm? They must have cancelled the Rift expansion, I’ll have to ask for my money back.

These doomsday prophecies certainly have become commonplace shortly after any launch, and especially in this case don’t bother me in the least. I’m delighted to give ANet time and space to see how their plans manifest into being. That includes their notion that a monthly fee isn’t necessary to finance growth… and provide routine, timely maintenance.

Also, seeing a hiring notice doesn’t necessarily mean that there was a last minute wait to fill positions. These days, turnover is something every business experiences as the workforce tends be much more mobile than in the past.

robot.9134:

Most mmo’s die because they don’t seem to be prepared for all of the issues post release and fall behind…deeper and deeper until I am sure they have great intentions to address all of the issues….they just can’t do it in time before players lose attention and leave.

It isnt just the funding whether its B2p or subscription… but the management of those funds, the support teams behind the game, and the priorities of all those departments.

Id be willing to pay $15 a month or even $20!! (considering a 2 hour move is $12-14 or w/e it is at the movie theater) If I knew that the company that was behind an MMO had a proper sized team in place for post release to NOT ONLY take care of issues….but MULTI TASK in all areas that were important to the player base so they could be taken care of in a more reasonable time frame.

Tackling bugs, bots, exploits, and nerfing for the first 1-2 months of release just isnt enough and this isnt the only game to fall into that category. Players expect those issues but class balance and more positive and fun changes should accompany them. That should start day one and be independent of other major issues.

The best advertisement is word of mouth. If your friends are bashing the game or are actually positive but just not excited enough to log in and show face in guild chat….that speaks wonders and will start the avalanche. You all have seen it..if not in this mmo…others.

It is becoming predictable. I cant remember the last MMO that didnt advertise that they were hiring within the first month or 2 of release. Great planning. It is pretty costly to hire and train new people last minute when the clock is ticking.

Post release has become far more important these days and it really really annoys me that mmo developers aren’t seeing this and keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Im sure that this will be deleted soon but post your thoughts…

that’s why you do not run a developer company yourself….
there are bugs that come into play when fixing other bugs
there are minor bugs for the majority (but maybe YOU are the minority and say that they are major)
there are balance tweaks that can only be seen when milions of players play/tweak your code
and in the end as everything….you cant’ please everyone…if you try it you will please none in the end and you will broke…

when people will understand that….if you are a so bright CEO why do not start your own studio/game/whatever ?

in the end the consumer (you,me,whoever) will weight the pros and cons of a product and will decide…the company can only create more pros and fix some cons cant’ and will NEVER eliminate all the cons in 1 month..cause is cost inefficient….

get over it…it is all around you…accept it or…..choose another hobby

Dopplegangr.9678:

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You don’t know a lot of people do you?

Renegadeimp.8439:

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You need to know more people then. I know plenty that actively play all those you named.

Just because the games arent as popular as WoW doesnt mean that none of them are a success.

The point is…you cant just tell people to meet NEW people in game. If a game is going to be as big of a success as the devs are really looking to achieve then it needs to appeal to enough people so that the hardcore community stays as well as the average players who go to work and talk about it with the cooworkers etc they play with.

Eve for example is a great game but it has a very steep learning curve for most. Still has a great community but your not going to see it explode and get game of the year.

gw2 will soon go f2p truye story

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

I’d say that a playerbase the size of WoW’s comes with increased costs for support staff, server hardware, bandwidth, etc, etc.

And once you realise this, you see that simply having the highest population is not the only factor. A game has to be profitable to survive, not have the biggest playerbase.

Renegadeimp.8439:

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You need to know more people then. I know plenty that actively play all those you named.

Just because the games arent as popular as WoW doesnt mean that none of them are a success.

It’s not that black and white. There are degrees of success, and the more successful an MMO is, the more likely it is to expand and evolve – into something worth playing longterm.

Lots of MMOs are still in business, but don’t make enough money to keep growing. Nobody wants to pump development money into a game, if there won’t be a decent return on that investment.

So it really depends on how you define success. Is it just being able to stay afloat? Or much more than that?

robot.9134:

Most mmo’s die because they don’t seem to be prepared for all of the issues post release and fall behind…deeper and deeper until I am sure they have great intentions to address all of the issues….they just can’t do it in time before players lose attention and leave.
…

The good MMOs that die (it’s sad to see SWTOR on life support) do so because they don’t plan for the cycle. You have the Zerg of new customers who rush to shinny new MMO and grind to level cap within 3 weeks of play and then scream for new content. They also usually complain about other things (story, social aspects). They are looking to replace their experience in some other MMO from the past. Maybe they were in a good legion/guild whatever in game X and they played it for months, developed friends, etc… It seems the expectation these days is for all that magic to happen within a few months of a games release or it’s time to get angry an move on.

The smartest thing a studio can do is have a years worth of new content in queue and ready to go on release. Address your community within a few months of release on what’s coming and then keep it steaming in.

I guess we’ll know soon enough if ArenaNet is following that model.

Vzur.7123:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You need to know more people then. I know plenty that actively play all those you named.

Just because the games arent as popular as WoW doesnt mean that none of them are a success.

It’s not that black and white. There are degrees of success, and the more successful an MMO is, the more likely it is to expand and evolve – into something worth playing longterm.

Lots of MMOs are still in business, but don’t make enough money to keep growing. Nobody wants to pump development money into a game, if there won’t be a decent return on that investment.

So it really depends on how you define success. Is it just being able to stay afloat? Or much more than that?

Well, to me “dead” means “no longer in business.” Companies that are spending more than they make quickly close. I just looked up Age of Conan and Warhammer Online, two games that are generally said to have “died” soon after release, and there are announcements regarding server maintainance and game development for Sept 2012. Clearly, even if “you” are not playing these games, someone is.

Success does not mean “more popular than WoW.” If a game is still in operation after 1 year, 5 years, or whatever then it is doing something right, even if it is not WoW.

killbill.7910:

that’s why you do not run a developer company yourself….
there are bugs that come into play when fixing other bugs
there are minor bugs for the majority (but maybe YOU are the minority and say that they are major)
there are balance tweaks that can only be seen when milions of players play/tweak your code
and in the end as everything….you cant’ please everyone…if you try it you will please none in the end and you will broke…

when people will understand that….if you are a so bright CEO why do not start your own studio/game/whatever ?

in the end the consumer (you,me,whoever) will weight the pros and cons of a product and will decide…the company can only create more pros and fix some cons cant’ and will NEVER eliminate all the cons in 1 month..cause is cost inefficient….

get over it…it is all around you…accept it or…..choose another hobby

Your missing my point. All that is expected…I even said that. Class balance, just as one example, should be just as important. They were so quick to nerf in beta and stress test but didn’t double check their work in some cases to make sure it made sense. It was as if some nerfing was shotgun’d out.

For example. I play a ranger. Longbow was strong and they nerfed it into the ground making it WEAKER than shortbow. It is annoying that they made the change without testing. The players did the testing and found out that the shortbow is still stronger head on even without the benefits of flanking where it is supposed to shine. SB is a condition weapon and people use pwr crit with it! lol LB has been shelved by many minus some of its use for utility it seems.

Why is it crazy for a paying customer to expect a separate team of class managers and developers to look into this and fix it within days? a week? Players do it for fun….NO PAY! I do know they have class managers in place but for w/e reason (communication would be great) These balancing issues are taking quite awhile.

if you think im the minority why dont you wander over to the necro or even the elem forums and read a bit.

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

Keep dreaming, Blizzard spy. Some games just get old and die, some just atrociously manage and design their levels (in addition to SWTOR’s bug and homogenization problems) while not being graphically spectacular but still feeling like the latest Crysis on max settings and taking forever to load screens even with the latest SSD. However, GW2 is much better than that. The hype for GW2 comes from the grassroots whereas SWTOR paid for its own hype and ratings. Sure GW2 has problems (paying to rez and common world mobs with bleed, pull, slowdown, and knockback while others transfer conditions while having a too potent for a lifesteal lifesteal, WTH?) but those will be worked out. This isn’t an EA game.

Vzur.7123:

Renegadeimp.8439:

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

You need to know more people then. I know plenty that actively play all those you named.

Just because the games arent as popular as WoW doesnt mean that none of them are a success.

It’s not that black and white. There are degrees of success, and the more successful an MMO is, the more likely it is to expand and evolve – into something worth playing longterm.

Lots of MMOs are still in business, but don’t make enough money to keep growing. Nobody wants to pump development money into a game, if there won’t be a decent return on that investment.

So it really depends on how you define success. Is it just being able to stay afloat? Or much more than that?

While to a degree you are correct there are plenty that do still grow, Anarchy Online had one of the worst launches in history, it’s still going, still releasing expansions, and recently I heard it’s getting a graphics engine overhaul. EvE never has had HUGE numbers but they still pump out new content/expansions regularly and the playerbase in EVE has continued to slowly grow.

Guild Wars 1 is still going so I think ArenaNet have an idea how to run Guild Wars 2 to be profitable and successful for THEM. See it doesn’t matter if players think it isn’t successful, if it sustains a large enough base to keep the dev team employed and get new content and still make a profit it’s a success in business terms.

Well, to me “dead” means “no longer in business.” Companies that are spending more than they make quickly close. I just looked up Age of Conan and Warhammer Online, two games that are generally said to have “died” soon after release, and there are announcements regarding server maintainance and game development for Sept 2012. Clearly, even if “you” are not playing these games, someone is.

They do fund some development, but it tends to be negligible. Takes forever to see any real changes made in a lot of these games. Even when they do get real expansions, they all too often turn out to be disappointing minimal and lackluster. Just something the skeleton crew of devs threw together to drum up what little hype they could.

Agemnon.4608:

Dopplegangr.9678:

tolunart.2095:

“I don’t play X any more” does not mean death. It means you choose to spend your money elsewhere. How many MMOs have actually shut down all their servers and closed up within six months of release? A year?

I’d say pretty much every MMO besides WoW is dead. I don’t know anyone that still plays AoC, Rift, Aion, Tera, SWTOR, etc. I’m guessing the same will be true for GW2 soon.

Keep dreaming, Blizzard spy. Some games just get old and die, some just atrociously manage and design their levels (in addition to SWTOR’s bug and homogenization problems) while not being graphically spectacular but still feeling like the latest Crysis on max settings and taking forever to load screens even with the latest SSD. However, GW2 is much better than that. The hype for GW2 comes from the grassroots whereas SWTOR paid for its own hype and ratings. Sure GW2 has problems (paying to rez and common world mobs with bleed, pull, slowdown, and knockback while others transfer conditions while having a too potent for a lifesteal lifesteal, WTH?) but those will be worked out. This isn’t an EA game.

SWTOR needed to get its priorities straight. No one will look back at it and say “well…at least all the voice acting was great”. Stop spending tons of money on actors! Hire more people or spend more time on developing the game itself. I mean there is a debate on how much they actually spent on voice acting but either way they invested quite a bit of resources into it when it just wasn’t worth it compared to what they could have improved.

robot.9134:

killbill.7910:

that’s why you do not run a developer company yourself….
there are bugs that come into play when fixing other bugs
there are minor bugs for the majority (but maybe YOU are the minority and say that they are major)
there are balance tweaks that can only be seen when milions of players play/tweak your code
and in the end as everything….you cant’ please everyone…if you try it you will please none in the end and you will broke…

when people will understand that….if you are a so bright CEO why do not start your own studio/game/whatever ?

in the end the consumer (you,me,whoever) will weight the pros and cons of a product and will decide…the company can only create more pros and fix some cons cant’ and will NEVER eliminate all the cons in 1 month..cause is cost inefficient….

get over it…it is all around you…accept it or…..choose another hobby

Your missing my point. All that is expected…I even said that. Class balance, just as one example, should be just as important. They were so quick to nerf in beta and stress test but didn’t double check their work in some cases to make sure it made sense. It was as if some nerfing was shotgun’d out.

For example. I play a ranger. Longbow was strong and they nerfed it into the ground making it WEAKER than shortbow. It is annoying that they made the change without testing. The players did the testing and found out that the shortbow is still stronger head on even without the benefits of flanking where it is supposed to shine. SB is a condition weapon and people use pwr crit with it! lol LB has been shelved by many minus some of its use for utility it seems.

Why is it crazy for a paying customer to expect a separate team of class managers and developers to look into this and fix it within days? a week? Players do it for fun….NO PAY! I do know they have class managers in place but for w/e reason (communication would be great) These balancing issues are taking quite awhile.

if you think im the minority why dont you wander over to the necro or even the elem forums and read a bit.

i believe the developers after 1980 have lost their magic wands
too bad….

Drintar.1246:

Vzur.7123:

It’s not that black and white. There are degrees of success, and the more successful an MMO is, the more likely it is to expand and evolve – into something worth playing longterm.

Lots of MMOs are still in business, but don’t make enough money to keep growing. Nobody wants to pump development money into a game, if there won’t be a decent return on that investment.

So it really depends on how you define success. Is it just being able to stay afloat? Or much more than that?

While to a degree you are correct there are plenty that do still grow, Anarchy Online had one of the worst launches in history, it’s still going, still releasing expansions, and recently I heard it’s getting a graphics engine overhaul. EvE never has had HUGE numbers but they still pump out new content/expansions regularly and the playerbase in EVE has continued to slowly grow.

Guild Wars 1 is still going so I think ArenaNet have an idea how to run Guild Wars 2 to be profitable and successful for THEM. See it doesn’t matter if players think it isn’t successful, if it sustains a large enough base to keep the dev team employed and get new content and still make a profit it’s a success in business terms.

Depends on the size of the project, I think. Older MMOs like AO were practically indie games by todays standards. Keeping them growing was probably a lot more affordable. EVE was an indie game, so relative to its development costs, its been a HUGE success.

TBH, I don’t know for sure why things have changed so drastically post-WoW. I just know what I’ve seen over the years, playing almost every major MMO since UO.

Rift pumping faster content updates with a smaller budget-playerbase (every 1-2 months)