Guild Wars 2

I played MMOs for the last 15 years.

The one thing, assuming the MMO was good, that kept me at it was the grind.

Nobody LIKES grind, but we do it because it gives us the edge in PvP or PvE.

GW2 has no grind e.g. PvP its all balanced like a FP shooter.

I cant really decide whether I like that fact or not. On the one hand I like how I can take a month off and join PvP and know it will be balanced.

On the other hand I like working towards something, I like the carrot because I cant resist it.

I dont know what the answer is, I think GW2 was a superbly designed game and I really do enjoy it.

But for some reason I am not ‘compelled’ to play it because there is no carrot.

Go figure. I don’t have the answers.

i felt same as you greg, i’m little by little getting the thing of this game. I’ve played for 10 years mmorpgs and that thing of actually following the story, seeing a Vista or stuff like that is really new. The way dungeons are done, dodging and stuff, i had some bad time getting used to that.

But if you relax your mind and say “oh, look! Those thieves are trying to poison the water! kittenes you are going to get it!”, you’ll have a lot of fun.

Yea, sounds like conditioning. Have to approach GW2 from a different perspective.

The way I see it (and as a result I love GW2) is that the game’s focus is skill and tactics not about having better gear. When you beat an enemy in PvP or when you defeat a dungeon boss etc you know it is because you worked out a tactic and learned the encounter, read the situation and responded accodringly. You know if you beat an encounter it was YOU and not your gear that got it done. That is a feeling I have wanted from a game for a long time now and I am so happy that GW2 makes me feel like I have actually accomplished something and overcome challenges.

ok I get the replies.

But what does this mean – is this a FPS instead of a MMO?

i.e. there is no progression, we spend minimal time to get to full stats and then that is it its over?

I guess that makes sense given no subscription.

I think your answer is in your thread title.

There is a grind but it IS for fluff.

… and the edge in PvP are your superior skills.

I don’t understand how people bought the game and didn’t know that it has no stat based progression ( I love it) when it was one of the main selling points.

I am very pleased that there is no gear based advantage. Please never change.

Grind can be a good element because it set a line between players who made more effort and players who play it one-time. GW2 still has grind but the rewards are only for fluff. I agree with the topic starter.

It’s really like sports or exams. People grind on homeworks and studies is because they want the effectiveness of the certificate. No one wants to study hard for a paper just to have looks/bragging rights but doesn’t give you any rewards or jobs.

For majority players (those who touched many mmos end-games), the rewards of fluff isn’t effective to keep players going. One element that made players in every other mmos going are faction raids with many people to loot raid equipments. The gears actually progressed and evolves the player. It has nice appearance on top of that.

Reward in GW2 = Appearance.
Reward in every other mmos = Appearance + Stats.

Therefore, many players feel half or a quarter rewarded in GW2.
The sastisfaction isn’t there. Players who tasted other mmo’s end-game raid gears will notice this more than casual players.

seriously this whole “just quit if you dont like it” thing is thrown around way too much in this forum, its just ridiculous. ive never seen it this much in any other mmo ive ever played… so what really is the problem? im starting to feel like its a flaw with the game tbh

Balance in pvp has always been one of Anets keystone philosophies, starting all the way from the conception of the original Guild wars. It has also been one of the their major selling points, setting the series apart from other run of the mill MMO grinders. There is no reason that this is going to change now.

Just so you know, it is not a flaw. It is intentional. Guild wars is not every other MMO, and I appreciate that.

I have to agree with the “skill” based approach they took with Gw and GW2.
By allowing everyone have have access to the same quality gear the competition in SPvP and WvW is fierce.

Not only is the competition fierce but the available pool of players that can participate is LARGE !

Cause is how normal things work, most ppl is spoiled and like to rant and cry over till things are changed the way they like, well, thats not gonna happen here.

GW2 is a product by itself, everything about it is made for a reason, and that reason is to make a competitive game that works on equalls ground for everyone while having a balanced and accesible content for everyone. If people want to “grind that equipment” to be “above the rest” just choose the wrong game.

Most of this comes from people who buy the game for hype alone, even they use words like “this is the true WoW killer” and its not, not cause it is worst game than WoW, is just diferent, 180º diferent, even devs say wisely “only WoW will kill WoW” and is the hype alone who bring most of you here. To stumble against a game that is just not the game that you are so used and conditionated to.

Two choices, adapt and survive, dont adapt and die. And i dont think Anet thinks much diferent, they just can`t say it for being “politically correct”.

Feeling that, but…

I found all it takes is to relax into actually enjoying playing it. Somehow, MMO’s have separated themselves from other games, which people tend to play because, well., they actually want to have some fun ?

After getting past the no-carrot thing, I simply group up with some friends (or strangers) and do the daily (that’s sort of a carrot), going walk-about for DE’s/karma (looking for nicer skins, another carrot), or join in WvWvW. All for FUN.

GW2 has just started, there’s plenty of peeps all round the (my) server to join up with, and once players of other MMO’s get wind of it (somehow, many of them still seem oblivious of GW2’s existence), it will gain furter traction.

[Edit]

[Edited by CC: Inappropriate language]

they could have added a gear treadmill for pve and kept the current pvp balanced (everyone in exotic 80s for spvp, tpvp, wvw) and then added a something new such as guild wars that uses pve gear, to give the competitive gear grinders something to do that wouldnt affect casuals?

edit: the game doesnt have to change completely to make a wider range of gamers happy

chasingfuries.9635:

edit: the game doesnt have to change completely to make a wider range of gamers happy

Adding a gear threadmill is against the very foundations of this game.

If they add more content in the form of “power creep” they will be betraying themself and a lot of fans who really belive in them and their philosphy, so thats not going to happen.

But belive me, the game will change to make more gamers happy, im seriusly hopping not more content but refined, harder and challenging changes to what we can say is “end game” like dungeon dificulty and complexity, bosses and more of that good stuff like jumping puzzles and more intrincated and dificult DE. For PvP changes are coming, and WvW just need more people per server and the usual bug fixes.

i think my character hit 80 at around 100 hours.

that character alone now has 282 hours. he hasn’t completed his exotic set just yet (accessories and weapons missing), but that’s because the game is just so full of content, so full of fun stuff to do, that i can’t stop and do that. i keep finding other stuff to do. but every now and then i work a little towards it.

what i’m trying to say is that guild wars 2 doesn’t really need a grind to keep me entertained for hundreds of hours.

greg.3792:

ok I get the replies.

But what does this mean – is this a FPS instead of a MMO?

i.e. there is no progression, we spend minimal time to get to full stats and then that is it its over?

I guess that makes sense given no subscription.

Since when is MMO defined as vertical progression? Because it’s not.

If you want to stop once you get the best gear then that’s your business. The rest of us that actually ‘get’ GW2 will see that as the beginning of testing our limits, what we can accomplish using skill and tactics (2 words I have come to love since GW2 started).

This is still an mmo. It’s different but that’s what Anet was going for.

And despite what many people refuse to believe the market exists for both types.

Fluff can be a very good reason to grind, but here is the issue.

Fluff is all about how something appeals to a player and that is greatly subjective. What is not subjective is math.

greg.3792:

ok I get the replies.

But what does this mean – is this a FPS instead of a MMO?

i.e. there is no progression, we spend minimal time to get to full stats and then that is it its over?

I guess that makes sense given no subscription.

you still don’t get it. This game is not for hurr-durr grinding. This game is to have fun for the game itself, it’s not another mmorpg. Try took at it as Elder’s Scrolls. You go through the story, and the same time, you learn about your character.

And for the people that want to prize no-life or just people that have tons of time more than others: this is the key of this game. Want a prize? Be good. If you are good, you’ll win, and that’s the only way it should be.

We are too used to a type of game in which to be the best, you have to lose night weekends to go dungeon with your guild, to have in a couple of months the gear to be able to go to the OTHER dungeons where the drop is harder to get, and so on. Guild Wars 2 shows another type of gaming, in which the fun is the priority. The type of fun you get for playing a true role-playing game. If you just compare it to WoW or L2 or whichever you want, you’ll just wont get it.

I’ve been playing MMOs for 15 years to, the thing I do not need is a gear grind. I despise them generally, it’s an incredibly weak mechanic and is needed by the MONTHLY pay gimmick to keep you …. paying.

I prefer to have fluff to grind for if I want TO, not because I need TO. This is a PvP game, as soon as you PvEers wrap your little heads around that notion we can progress beyond all these “we need mounts” “we need more end game content” “we need raids” crap.

GOSU said it best. Gear grind is basically a gimmick to keep you paying and playing. Nothing more nothing less.

Again, there are a ton of choices of MMO’s these days for the better. If you are the type that enjoys the hamster treadmill go for it as there are other options available.

Imagine that Arenanet add content at level cap i.e. level 80 and they don’t increase the level cap. What kind of rewards and achievements could they add that would satisfy the people who need to have rewards to play the game?

For me the legendaries don’t add a lot, because, as things stand, to get them you have to play the game with a grinding mentality and for me that ruins the sense of immersion in a virtual world and turns it into a numbers game. I don’t want to play just for the sake of ticking off things on a list. But, no loot at all is a big detraction from the gameplay – it’s great to have that feeling that round the next corner might be a treasure chest…, that’s been an essential feature of RPGs since they were first invented and is pretty much the whole rationale behind having a levelling system (since you can get increasingly better rewards as you level).

Naoko.7096:

Grind can be a good element because it set a line between players who made more effort and players who play it one-time. .

In the same way it can be a bad thing.

Casual players will not participate in PVP because they are behind in gear AND in skill.

Casual players will be kicked from dungeon runs because they do not have gear xyz

As someone stated in this thread, the good part of not having the gear grind is that the player base capable of doing dungeons or going into PVP is much much larger.

Why would anyone start playing WOW at this point?
It will take them months to be at the level they can play with their friends

In GW1 it took 1 week, in GW2 about 4 weeks of casual play to close the gap
And even then the higher level friend can come to help them wihout spoling the content by one-shotting everything.

I love this aspect.

They don’t need to add new rewards roqoco, only new content. The new content is the fun stuff. I really don’t understand why a game needs anything more to be considered fun.

Don’t play to tick things off a list, play to have fun. If you don’t have fun in GW2 then perhaps move on to another game. There are plenty of us that are having fun just playing GW2 and think it already has soooo much to offer. And that we are better off without vertical endgame progression.

I dont want gear advantage in WvW

However, i wouldnt mind raiding for PvE gear aslong as it was seperate from WvW.

In WvW i would rather have character progression, like DaoCs realm abilities, ralm ranks etc.
WvW system only based on getting the most points atthe end of the week like now, gets boring fast.

MMO’s do not need a grind for gear to give better stats to decide the outcome of a fight in place of skill.

GW2 lets the new lvl 80 with his cheap exotics and the “vet” players with their legendary weapons compete on an even playing field, where what you do matters not how long you have played.

This is a good thing.

That is a good thing, for WvW.

Although, without any kind of character progression, and people just mindlessly zerging around week after week to get the highest points at the end of the week.
It gets kind of boring.

WvW needs other kinds of rewards to progress your character. Such as said realm abilities and realm ranks. Also a bit more meaning to capture keeps other then getting a higher tick on the points.

Non-gear grinding game is probably good for very casual players.
I agree on that.

I feel some people miss the point. Having fun isn’t the issue here. Every games are fun. It’s about the mmo elements to motivate players to stay. It’s important for mmo to allow players to dedicate themselves to one mmo. It’s not a 1-time ps3 game where people switch games after finishing each game. There won’t be any dedication to a single mmo and the game will realise there’ll be less players in months to come.

If there’s no gear grinding, will there be any alternative to make end-game players feel that their character is progressing? MMO isn’t just about progressing new content, new lore and stuffs. It’s about progressing the character. That’s what sustain players, a solid goal to achieve for personal self everytime. MMO is about sustaining “end-game players” to keep them occupy to achieve something. After achieving a goal, there’s another goal. Those cycles and progressions are the reasons why many people like mmo.

After 3 months, I started to feel everything is too democratic. Everyone is equal.
An example would be like the N.Korea system. Doctors and cleaners earn about the same. This makes their people don’t feel like making effort because there’re no solid rewards. This is why their economy is the worse among the world. Why? It’s because the people there don’t have motivation to move. Human nature are brought into mmo too because it’s a massive multi-player virtual world.

It may go like this:
1st couple weeks: Player play 8 hours per day till end-game.
1st month: Player play 4-6 hours per day on dungeons and grindings.
2rd month: Player play 1 hour on dungeon 2-3 times per week.
3th-?? month: Players only login once every few weeks to do timed seasonal events like Halloween and Christmas.
?? month: Player forgotten about gw2.

It’s something which I worry after seeing many people around me are starting to feel burned out. I like this game because of it’s dynamic events. It has one of the best quality graphics, voices, environments and aesthatic. I had so much hype on this game many months earlier. Now I have trouble trying to make myself stay in this game. I want to make use of my 4 hours free time on gw2. I can’t even last for an hour per day. I ended up logout or alt+tab to listen to music in youtube or read forums (like now).

I love this game. I want to stay in this game but there’s need to be something that brings my mind into it. I won’t ask for a whole system revamp. I hope for the developers to come up with good solutions to keep players stay for long term.

greg.3792:

Nobody LIKES grind, but we do it because it gives us the edge in PvP

This sentence sums up the real reason people wants raids & co.
They want to outgear people they can’t outskill.

I’m so happy that this will never happen in GW2.

Once you get “grind for gear” it becomes another wow clone and it get’s stomped on.

Stat differences due to time invested = Bad.
GW2 has no stat differences = Good.

Some people here say that it feels a bit wrong to have invested more time than someone else and still not have that adge over someone that plays much much less. Because there is no improved stat reward that gives you that edge, but guess what!

You spend more time PvPing so of course you should know your profession better. That is your reward, that is your carrot, that is your edge.

To me it feels 100 times better to beat someone up on equal terms. If I know my skill composition, gear composition and trait composition better I will have the upper hand.

Isnt that why people PvP to test their skills against other players?

If you need superior gear to kill people you shouldnt PvP in the first place.

There is a plethora of MMO’s on the market with a grind treadmill for any player wanting that sort of thing. Anet isn’t stupid enough to compete with these MMO’s. especially the elephant in the room, which is undeniably the best at doing it.

Instead, Anet has opted for a more “game” approach, where 100% balance in PvP is the greater concern, and “grinding” is rewarded with trophies such as unique looking armors and weapons, and little icons next to your name. There is more to do than simply reading the quest requirements and killing monsters to reach the cap. There is exploration and jumping puzzles.

We should all expect this game to update with as great a focus on fluff as there is actual progressive content. New armors and weapons simply for looks, new town clothes, housing, emotes, mini games, even jumping puzzle mechanics like ledge grabbing (why not?) etc. If you picked up Guild Wars 2 expecting the same progression you’d find in most other major MMO titles, you’re playing the wrong game.

MMO’s aren’t defined solely by their grind mechanic. That’s just what the sheep conditioned to think in terms of endless grind are intended to think.

I’ve noticed people keep comparing GW2 to an FPS, as if the one defining feature of an FPS were the fact that it’s skill-based, rather than grind-based (as opposed to, you know, being in first person and based entirely around shooting).

I really had no idea the world of MMOs was so full of people who feel they should be rewarded purely for the number of hours they spend farming weak enemies, rather than actually getting good at a game. The incentive to play more at GW2 is that the more you play, the better you should be getting at using a wide variety of tactics. If the idea of getting better doesn’t appeal to you enough, or isn’t enough reward for your time … well, I don’t know what to say.

“If they add more content in the form of ‘power creep’ they will be betraying themself and a lot of fans who really belive in them and their philosphy, so thats not going to happen.”

Power creep though is necessary for dealing with larger and badder threats. Dragon kitten has this with a vengeance, people trembled before Frieza, yet in Dragon Ball GT Omega Shenron could basically yawn on Frieza to defeat him. That big guy who stopped a bullet and could move faster than light on the first DBZ episode? Yeah, he’s hopelessly weak in the grand scheme of the show.

Honestly though the whole fusion thing later on was dumb, but power creep helped made the series interesting.

Focksbot.6798:

I’ve noticed people keep comparing GW2 to an FPS, as if the one defining feature of an FPS were the fact that it’s skill-based, rather than grind-based (as opposed to, you know, being in first person and based entirely around shooting).

I really had no idea the world of MMOs was so full of people who feel they should be rewarded purely for the number of hours they spend farming weak enemies, rather than actually getting good at a game. The incentive to play more at GW2 is that the more you play, the better you should be getting at using a wide variety of tactics. If the idea of getting better doesn’t appeal to you enough, or isn’t enough reward for your time … well, I don’t know what to say.

It’s a PvP game, and people may say they don’t want to PvP, but I know they really do but are afraid of getting pwned and humiliated in front of everyone, as if anyone would really care since everyone has to get pwned at some point.

That big dragon has no free will, he is merely bits of data programmed by developers. If he pwned you, then no big deal, he isn’t aware of it whereas other players are a different story.

roqoco.4053:

Imagine that Arenanet add content at level cap i.e. level 80 and they don’t increase the level cap. What kind of rewards and achievements could they add that would satisfy the people who need to have rewards to play the game?

For me the legendaries don’t add a lot, because, as things stand, to get them you have to play the game with a grinding mentality and for me that ruins the sense of immersion in a virtual world and turns it into a numbers game. I don’t want to play just for the sake of ticking off things on a list. But, no loot at all is a big detraction from the gameplay – it’s great to have that feeling that round the next corner might be a treasure chest…, that’s been an essential feature of RPGs since they were first invented and is pretty much the whole rationale behind having a levelling system (since you can get increasingly better rewards as you level).

They can always add more dungeons with new armor sets, or just new armor sets in general. That would give people something to “achieve”.

I think the way they are positioning the game as a potential esports contender, they are not at all likely to add any sort of “gear treadmill” where ever increasing power in gear dictates automatically who wins a match even if they are not the better player- sorry hamsters, you will not be running the same wheel in this game.

Ohh, we have another “there is no carrot” thread.

This game was advertised as not being gear-centric. In all the interviews the devs gave it was clear, this game is not about endgame gear progression.

So for all of you who lived in a cave the last 2 years: This is not the game for you.

I am happy the game isn’t about gear.

Off-topic: I was just chatting with one of my ex-gw2 friends an hour ago. He made a sharp remark saying that gw2 audiences are targetted towards “traditional losers of mmo”. I don’t want to adapt that thinking. But after seeing many people being very fearful of end-game gear grinding, it feels closer to the truth. They’re afraid of the humiliation of being outgeared by players who play with more effort. They want to be spoon-fed everytime with the excuse of having no time to grind. They’re afraid of hamsters having bragging rights. They want to be the same level as those who put more time into the game. Etc. It started to feel this way after reading some posts in the forum.

On-topic: If gear grinding isn’t feasible, there’re many ways to give players a proper end-game. Having only grind for gear cosmetics isn’t an end-game. Since all other mmos have both cosmetic+gear progressions, it cut down gw2’s cosmetic end-game effectiveness by a large amount. Cosmetics are just secondary in most mmo. It’s the reason why many players feel there’s no carrot. Therefore, I hope the devs create an end-game that sustain players.

I heard in the future, gw2 is going to have housings. If that’s the case, they have a very good opportunity to add the end-game/carrot into this. My suggestion: To build the house and furnitures, players must grind for the materials (chop woods, hire builders). After the house is built, they can customise it to their likings. Players can compare how big or small and how beautiful their house is with each other from their efforts. They can also acquire trophy from bosses and showcase it in their shelves. Every week, there’s an update for house furnitures catalogue. They can have many variety of it. Players constant desire to grind for mats to upgrade their houses, buy/craft furnitures, paint etc. Some of the materials are drop in dungeons. Making it mandatory to have guildmates to build/upgrade houses are good too. (It helps bonding and promotes the purpose of having a guild.) Remember that joyful experiences comes from the efforts we make. People appreciate something from efforts. If everything is spoonfed, there’s no fun in it. This is a good example of keeping players sustain and feeling anticipated every week. It’s what a mmo should be.

Power creep though is necessary for dealing with larger and badder threats. Dragon kitten has this with a vengeance, people trembled before Frieza, yet in Dragon Ball GT Omega Shenron could basically yawn on Frieza to defeat him. That big guy who stopped a bullet and could move faster than light on the first DBZ episode? Yeah, he’s hopelessly weak in the grand scheme of the show.

Honestly though the whole fusion thing later on was dumb, but power creep helped made the series interesting.

Just to go briefly off topic, power creep manifestly did not make DBZ a more interesting show; it made it get more ridiculous and farcical with each passing season until everyone gave up on it. You had a character who could destroy the moon with a flexing of his fist in the first season, who is at one point supposedly weaker than a tiny, bald monk (or is at least impressed by the monk’s power), who is then in turn used as a punching bag for the rest of the series. No wonder Toriyama called it quits.

They’re afraid of the humiliation of being outgeared by players who play with more effort. They want to be spoon-fed everytime with the excuse of having no time to grind. They’re afraid of hamsters having bragging rights. They want to be the same level as those who put more time into the game. Etc. It started to feel this way after reading some posts in the forum.

What planet are you living on, dude? They’re not ‘afraid’; they just know there’s no point in playing if you literally do not have time in your life to grind as much as other people. They know that a system that rewards loners and addicts is bogus.

It’s the regular MMO vets who are afraid because they’re used to being able to make up for a deficiency of skill/situational awareness/adaptability/creativity by just sitting up until 4am with a stale pizza clicking on goblins’ heads.

Naoko, is that trolling?
Traditional MMO players are afraid to face people on even grounds and therefore play games where they can get unfair advantages over more skilled people by grinding.
It’s like giving robotic gloves to a boxer because he sat in the gym 20 hours a day throwing a jab at the sack.

Traditional MMOs are theme parks for baddies to outgear people and feel like they are good, even though they are just given statistical advantage.
Those people are dead scared of anything on fair grounds and skill-based.
The OP proved this point strongly by claiming he wants to get PvP advantages by grinding.

GW2 will never allow such a cheap and unfair system – everyone is on the same ground and the best will survive.
Baddies better run back to WoW to kill undergeared people and feel like they are good.

chasingfuries.9635:

seriously this whole “just quit if you dont like it” thing is thrown around way too much in this forum, its just ridiculous. ive never seen it this much in any other mmo ive ever played… so what really is the problem? im starting to feel like its a flaw with the game tbh

No, it’s not a flaw.

The problem is people are looking for essentially WoW with no subscription, completely ignored YEARS of discussion about this game, bought it anyway, and then head straight to the forums to complain they have nothing to do and they want this game changed NOW so it’s like a regular MMO.

The flaw is with the person buying a box of spaghetti and expecting a t-bone steak when they open it.

Naoko.7096:

Off-topic: I was just chatting with one of my ex-gw2 friends an hour ago. He made a sharp remark saying that gw2 audiences are targetted towards “traditional losers of mmo”.

I’m an “mmo-loser” because I don’t want to sit in front of my computer for days on end grinding for gear that’s going to be completely obsolete in the next expansion?

Tell your friend he may want to take a step back and think about that one.

@Focksbot.6798, if they’re casual players, they wouldn’t care about being outgeared by other players. So I don’t understand why some casual players are against it badly. Gear progression is optional in every mmo. You’re still able to pve with standard gears and progress through the story normally and pvp with the given balanced gears in mist.

@Red Falcon, no need to go so defensive. >_> I’m only sharing what my friend said which I already mentioned that I partially disagree with him. I’m not trolling either. I don’t know why you had to bring up WoW. I’m not a WoW player. WoW isn’t much advertised and not a popular mmo in my country. I wouldn’t bother about that mmo because it’s very old and low quality.
-
I agree that inbalance gears are not good in pvp. This balancing system is good for pvp. However, is anti-endgame gear progression in pve a wise design? That’s very subjective because there’re both pros and cons. IMO, the cons weigh more than the pros because it takes away the carrot for dedicated mmo players. Yes, it’s fair for casual players because they can laugh at dedicated players who grind fruitlessly. However, it isn’t fair for dedicated players who’s willing to grind couple hours per day but doesn’t progress further than a casual player. Casual players were not affected by this because they only play for the story and balanced pvp.

this thread makes me worry that ANet may listen to the amount of whining and do something silly like raise the level cap, instead of keeping it as it is and adding quality content over a bigger carrot.

but then again, 7 years later guild wars 1 kept its cap of 20.

Progression is an illusion. Your gear gets better, the bosses hit harder, you’re at square one. It’s ALL cosmetic.

Hmm the “no progress for better gear” argument is still around I see. It seems many people are having a hard time looking outside the progression “gear grind box” model. Years of been exposed to the same model will do that to you (and me) I suppose.

Why do people like artificiality dps gate blocks so much? In some games no matter how good you are you wont beat the boss in x amount of time unless the group damage output = some number. Reaching that number would be directly related to you gear. The result is repeating whatever content below that boss x times until you have enough gear to overcome the dps tress hold.

Now that’s a stupid grind and long term goal. Your skill gets thrown out the window. All your team effort and personal skill gets a big “LOL” by the dps timer.

I guess you don’t consider ‘fun’ to be a compelling reason to play the game.

Yeah Omega, well every clown that comes along feels they need to air their issues, even though they are not real issues. They feel they need to do so in a manner to try to attempt to push their perspective on the the rest of us.

That whole “misery loves company thing”

I came to this game totally understanding that sPvP was where stats and gear would not matter. With this in mind, I already knew that WvW would be where my time would be spent. After I hit 80 I then realized all gear has basically the same stats and has no effort what so ever to get. Ironically the gear that has possibly the biggest grind to it (WvW) just looks incredibly dull and boring.

I am one of those players that gets hooked by having that carrot dangled in front of you. I rarely get the best gear in MMOs and constantly face people better geared than me, but that never discourages me… it just makes me want that gear more. The cool looking skins are nice, but if thats all gear has then it will get very boring very fast.

If Anet was smart, they would leave the sPvP for the people not into gear treadmills and WvW could be for the people who enjoy earning something with better stats. If this game doesn’t implement something to work toward, then I really doubt it will hold my interest very long. But then again since I am not paying monthly, I really doubt Anet cares to capture the interest of players like myself.

I am starting to get the feeling that this is more of a carebear version of a real MMO, suited for very casual and non competitive players.