Magic Find - What I don't like
Like I said above – I feel by far the most beneficial change would just be to make it impact a whole party (based on an average) rather than just an individual player. That is seriously all it needs. Anything else would be a needless knee-jerk.
No, that’s what Diablo 3 tried to do. It was a horrible idea.
Yeah, except it wouldn’t work like how it did in Diablo 3. MF doesn’t have the value in this game that it does there, and that makes all the difference.
I don’t see how it’s different.
People will still feel like they are penalized for partying with people without MF, just like they did in D3.
STOP COMPARING THIS TO D3, THEY ARE NOTHING ALIKE.
In d3 mf gear is equally as strong as non-mf gear 99% of the time due to the way the equipment is designed. In gw2 you are guaranteed to have to sacrifice stats to gain mf.
If a party has to choose between strong non-mf gear and weak mf-gear, they will choose the strong gear to make the run easier, if the above comments were true, people would use mf gear to farm CoF now . You guys are making an apples and oranges comparison. Making mf party wide is the simplest and fairest solution. Its dumb to try and think of an overly complex fix when making it shared would benefit everyone.
I look forward to magic find gear being replaced/removed! I made my entire first set of exotic armor/weapons/accessories MF before learning it wasn’t worth it. Now I just have a pile of buyer’s remorse, and a sense of embarrassment at the time I wasted on all that gear. It’d be great if I could just change all of that equipment to a different stat set without having to pay extra…
If/when magic find is redone, I think it should be removed as a possible buff from food, too. Choosing whether to boost my other stats vs magic find via food presents the same dilemma as choosing with gear; it’s not fun.
Magic find should be an additional stat added to the existing 3 on rare items and up.
Rare – 5%
Exotic – 10%
Ascended – 15%
Legendary – 20%
so a full “set” of rare armor would be 30% and legendary armor would be 120%. This kind of thing just makes the most sense.
you should not spread discrimination.
And by the way, even if you ran naked with white weapons CoF path 1 will at most take 15 minutes. All people in MF would probably take 8 minutes. All in berserker – 6. Uuuuh what a big difference!My comment was a hyperbole, but I’d be surprised if you know what that is.
I’d like to see evidence of this 15 minute naked run.
And once again, they’re slowing the group down for selfish reasons by 33%, why should the others accept this?
There are naked runs of dungeons. Someone did AC just to prove that it’s not too hard. CoF is easier than AC. It would not take long.
Because they are helpful in other ways, because they’re helping the group by 67%, because 4 manning the dungeon wouldn’t be faster and because they’re not worse on damaging that vitality/ toughness users.
You’re suggesting something like this "there are 50 people. 20 of them haven a IQ of 120 . 20 of them have an IQ of 110, but have a university degree. 10 of them have an IQ of 60.
You’re allowed to chose those with a bigger IQ. However you’re not allowed to walk to a person with an IQ of 110 and yell “get smarter” at their faces, you’re also not allowed to try to disgrace those people by saying that people with an IQ of 60 should take their place because they’re just less fortunate (rare users), but a person with an IQ of 110 should have forced himself to study an extra subject to get more IQ points and therefore should be discriminated against"
You do not really make any sense but people like you annoy the crap out of me for another reason besides disregard for the facts at hand. The fact people like you try to use videos made by people such as Strife to aid the community in defense of your blatant lack of education on the subject.
The simple fact is people like Strife and in those naked videos spend hours and hours and hours finding the best runes, sigils, stats, and paths to do these things. They crunch the math and die trying over ‘n’ over to things right. Then they share these guides with the masses to either brag a little or aid them. Often it is the case to aid the masses because they are often pretty cool peeps.
There is also one other MAJOR fact to consider. These people go from game to game to do this and are often in the top 1% of gamers for each game. This means often out of thousands or even MILLIONS of people they are a very small group of people in the grand scheme and everyone else like you? Are not! Do you get what this means? This means that trying to use these guides or naked runs as the standard for the level that everyone can play at in the game is really really dumb. Because you and a majority of other people will never be able to play at that level. You are trying to compare a local track star to an Olympic trained runner who has been doing it their whole life and it is moronic. So please stop it.
Some fun ideas in here, we’re also actively discussing ways on how we’d best like to alleviate having to make players choose between having better stats, or using magic find. It’s not a choice that’s great for game play and there isn’t really anything that fun about it, even more so when group composition is taken into account. Ideally we’d also like to keep the ability to slowly build your magic find over time, but doing this at the cost of using better stats isn’t the right way to do that.
No ETA on any changes here, just want to point out we agree there is an issue here that goes against what we want Gw2 to be, and is something we want to address.
Here’s an idea. Remove MF from the game and increase drop rates a bit. There, done. Everyone now has a small MF increase and nobody has to sacrifice anything to get it.
The problem with that approach would be that every thing but one item would drop in price the one item precursor would go up.
The real issue here isn’t the item drop rate but those who manipulate the TP to hoard gold in every MMORPG dating all the way back to EQ or UO. These people are a tiny part of the community but manipulate things so well they make it miserable for a majority of the player base. Unless the drop rates were insane so that everyone got one perfectly every time these people will always control and hoard items/gold.
They are akin to the rich guy in real life who will die with 300mil in the bank. They will never use all that gold and just like all those before them that left games like WoW? The gold will be left to rot there in the game till it is taken offline. Which is very sad for a variety of reasons. These are the gold hoarders or peeps who get a kick out of controlling a market in any game. You can never truly be rid of them sadly and they will always do stuff like buy 34+ jetpacks and hoard them till months down the road to sell at premium. This goes on for these people for every single item worth diddly and event in the game and is the real reason so much stuff gets a high price on the TP.
The gold that will never be spent or used but gave these small amount of players total market control. Enough so that everything even the gem market is based around them and everyone else just gets screwed. Fun isn’t it? They will always justify it as well with real world economics forgetting this is a game and they will move on again after ruining it for others letting everything rot. Same ol cycle.
You do not really make any sense but people like you annoy the crap out of me for another reason besides disregard for the facts at hand. The fact people like you try to use videos made by people such as Strife to aid the community in defense of your blatant lack of education on the subject.
The simple fact is people like Strife and in those naked videos spend hours and hours and hours finding the best runes, sigils, stats, and paths to do these things. They crunch the math and die trying over ‘n’ over to things right. Then they share these guides with the masses to either brag a little or aid them. Often it is the case to aid the masses because they are often pretty cool peeps.
There is also one other MAJOR fact to consider. These people go from game to game to do this and are often in the top 1% of gamers for each game. This means often out of thousands or even MILLIONS of people they are a very small group of people in the grand scheme and everyone else like you? Are not! Do you get what this means? This means that trying to use these guides or naked runs as the standard for the level that everyone can play at in the game is really really dumb. Because you and a majority of other people will never be able to play at that level. You are trying to compare a local track star to an Olympic trained runner who has been doing it their whole life and it is moronic. So please stop it.
so let me get this straight – I’m a bad person because I don’t care about numbers, I don’t care what level the people are that run with me, as long as they fit the dungeon level, I don’t care what gear they wear because I have run with people with different gear sets and I know that it’s not the gear that decides how useful you are, I don’t care what build or class they use. And guess what? Most dungeons do not go that much slower.
But I kitten you off, because I’m not in the percentage of the best players that are able to run naked, therefore I should wear beserkers and get angry that others don’t gear the way I want them to?
MF is a bad stat.
It will always encourage people to use it (Esp with the way things like legendaries work on rng), and so they get rewarded for gearing badly.
its the wrong way round, you should not get rewarded for bad gearing. ever.
Take the RNG out of precursors especially and up the drop rates across teh board, and you remove the need for magic find altogether.
so let me get this straight – I’m a bad person because I don’t care about numbers, I don’t care what level the people are that run with me, as long as they fit the dungeon level, I don’t care what gear they wear because I have run with people with different gear sets and I know that it’s not the gear that decides how useful you are, I don’t care what build or class they use. And guess what? Most dungeons do not go that much slower.
But I kitten you off, because I’m not in the percentage of the best players that are able to run naked, therefore I should wear beserkers and get angry that others don’t gear the way I want them to?
You’re pretty much a monster. Shameful. How dare you.
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
Well I’m not sure what would work best, but I had a few ideas.
Magic find infusion (in any armor slot gear) that you could buy with laurels. You could apply it to any armor that does not have the MF stat. So you would keep your dungeon/pve/wvw etc gear and be able to add teh MF attribute to it.
The following would be items, like runes but different of course.
1 Laurel = 1% MF x6 armor pieces =6% MF (Total cost 6 Laurels)
2 Laurels = 2% MF x6 armor pieces = 12% MF (Total cost 12 Laurels)
3 laurels = 3% MF x6 armor pieces = 18% MF (Total cost 18 Laurels)
4 Laurels = 4% MF x6 armor pieces = 24% MF (Total cost 24 Laurels)
5 Laurels = 5% MF x6 armor pieces = 30% MF (Total cost of 30 Laurels)
They would work like upgrades but they would add the MF stat to the gear and not be able to be reused. This would allow it so that people would of course upon upgrading gear would have to work to get those MF bonus items with laurels rather than just be another easy win.
So you can see in 1 month you could deck out your characters armor with 30% mf. You could deck out a set every month for a different character, and if you upgrade a piece it would be cheap to add that 5 laurel upgrade to that 1 piece of gear.
Could call them supplements, upgrades, whatever. People with regular MF gear would possibly migrate to trying out other gears now that they aren’t bound to MF, allowing them to experience different trait lines and tactics which was the devs purpose for gear.
Could go farther with this, make them equal to accessory MF %’s, I forget the amounts.
Laurel MF Armor Supplement
Laurel MF Weapon Supplement
Laurel MF Accessory Supplement
But since I know people really want to have more than one way, could make these available from Dungeon tokens (obvious right?:P), karma or other currencys, all with their own costs that would be fair. Not sure what that is myself, but I’m sure they could figure that out.
Just an example, don’t rage on the prices lol:
5 Laurels = 1 Armor Supplement (1 piece of gear upgrade)
50,000 Karma = 1 Armor Supplement ^
50,000 Dungeon relics = 1 Armor Supplement
etc etc
And to top it all off to help crafters not get burned, toss a MF Supplement recipe in the forge and into Artificer/Jeweler? So that they can make money from those who may not be buying MF gear anymore.
So there you have it, buy the items with gold,karma,dungeon relics,laurels maybe a combo of those. Everyone keeps their good gear and runes, and gets to work towards an MF upgrade for every piece of gear. Making them destroyed upon salvaging, and a non removable upgrade = money/karma etc sink, and a continual profit for crafters.
What you think?
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Nvidia GTX 650 Win 7 64bit FFXI 4+yrs/Aion 4+ years Complete Noob~ Veteran OIF/OEF
http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
Some fun ideas in here, we’re also actively discussing ways on how we’d best like to alleviate having to make players choose between having better stats, or using magic find. It’s not a choice that’s great for game play and there isn’t really anything that fun about it, even more so when group composition is taken into account. Ideally we’d also like to keep the ability to slowly build your magic find over time, but doing this at the cost of using better stats isn’t the right way to do that.
No ETA on any changes here, just want to point out we agree there is an issue here that goes against what we want Gw2 to be, and is something we want to address.
How about being able to use extra Skill Points to increase your magic find, up to a cap? Add an item to Miyani for skill points that when consumed permanently increases your magic find by 1%. This requires players to progress to continue to increase their MF, but doesn’t lock them into any one specific thing. It also doesn’t introduce any new currencies (there are already WAY too many currencies in game).
Svenn Ethir – Seeds of War – Stormbluff Isle
What I was thinking, if they ever do add ascended armor, is to not have any of them have an inherent MF stat, but instead have a utility infusion slot. That way, once people upgrade to that armor, they won’t be tempted to make an MF set, and instead get the option to add a utility infusion, instead.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
then you will find people with mf not wanting to group with anyone without it. You would also allow other players to leech off mf users.
If mf users got their gear changed to some other stat combination and mf would be something everyone could infuse their armor with if they work for it, then we’re all equal.
Granted, I suppose utility infusions would add too much, it could be something similar, but to a more limited extent.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
Not only is your idea completely nonsensical, there is no problem with having a utility slot ‘only’ serve one purpose. Your ‘fix’ still ends up with people being unnecessarily weaker than they would otherwise be.
Granted, I suppose utility infusions would add too much, it could be something similar, but to a more limited extent.
I’ve got no problem with this. Call it whatever you want, add more infusion types if you want, or don’t, I don’t mind, but this is still the best solution that I can see.
As many people that use MF say, they have both farming MF gear and different dungeon gear, the only place that MF is actually “bad” is in a dungeon, I fail to see why there is any need to remove MF anywhere else. Simply making MF useless in dungeons and also increasing the rewards of all dungeon chests should be enough.
I’d say get rid of it all together but failing that this is a a good solution.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
then you will find people with mf not wanting to group with anyone without it. You would also allow other players to leech off mf users.
If mf users got their gear changed to some other stat combination and mf would be something everyone could infuse their armor with if they work for it, then we’re all equal.
Oh, well in that case let’s just go ahead and remove all the stats then huh?
Seriously, this isn’t a good argument. MF wouldn’t carry any special form of elitism that people don’t already carry for things like Berserker stats.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
then you will find people with mf not wanting to group with anyone without it. You would also allow other players to leech off mf users.
If mf users got their gear changed to some other stat combination and mf would be something everyone could infuse their armor with if they work for it, then we’re all equal.Oh, well in that case let’s just go ahead and remove all the stats then huh?
Seriously, this isn’t a good argument. MF wouldn’t carry any special form of elitism that people don’t already carry for things like Berserker stats.
and elitism for berserker stats is bad, there’s no reason to put in another type of elitism.
What you’re suggesting seems very selfish to me. You want to leech of other people no matter what. I don’t agree with that. I don’t think that you should get a stat that you have not worked for. Because otherwise while we’re at it, why not to have a system like this:
All the damage in the party gets added up and divided equally
All the toughness in the party gets added up and divided equally
All the vitality in the party gets added up and divided equally
All condition damage in the party gets added up and divided equally.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
Not only is your idea completely nonsensical, there is no problem with having a utility slot ‘only’ serve one purpose. Your ‘fix’ still ends up with people being unnecessarily weaker than they would otherwise be.
I seriously don’t get how that idea qualifies as “nonsensical”. Some people would find the choice of being slightly weaker to have the chance at better drops interesting. I do.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
No it isn’t. What’s the point of having a slot that’s only meant for one thing?
MF is fine exactly how it is, with the exception that it’s a detriment to people you’re grouping with. A simple fix of making it automatically average MF for all members in a group is all it needs.
then you will find people with mf not wanting to group with anyone without it. You would also allow other players to leech off mf users.
If mf users got their gear changed to some other stat combination and mf would be something everyone could infuse their armor with if they work for it, then we’re all equal.Oh, well in that case let’s just go ahead and remove all the stats then huh?
Seriously, this isn’t a good argument. MF wouldn’t carry any special form of elitism that people don’t already carry for things like Berserker stats.
and elitism for berserker stats is bad, there’s no reason to put in another type of elitism.
What you’re suggesting seems very selfish to me. You want to leech of other people no matter what. I don’t agree with that. I don’t think that you should get a stat that you have not worked for. Because otherwise while we’re at it, why not to have a system like this:
All the damage in the party gets added up and divided equally
All the toughness in the party gets added up and divided equally
All the vitality in the party gets added up and divided equally
All condition damage in the party gets added up and divided equally.
There’s something wrong with you people. What are you talking about “leech off of other people”? That sure sounds more elitist than anything I’ve ever said. How exactly is it leeching when you’re contributing something to the group? MF might be a great way for less skilled players to contribute something other than uber DPS.
In essence, that’s exactly what’s happening with the other stats, because it’s only the group’s effectiveness as a unit that matters.
Your argument seriously makes no sense.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
There’s something wrong with you people. What are you talking about “leech off of other people”? That sure sounds more elitist than anything I’ve ever said. How exactly is it leeching when you’re contributing something to the group? MF might be a great way for less skilled players to contribute something to the group. The other stats already are more or less being added up and divided equally in essence, because it’s only the group’s effectiveness as a unit that matters.
Your argument seriously makes no sense.
your gear only has 3 stats. Magic find is one of the stats you can get. Why sharing it would be unfair for a magic find user.
Let’s say you are in a party with 5 people with no magic find. Now your magic find is only 20% as effective. Now your gear essentially is missing 4/5ths of a stat just so others could have 3 stats + 1/5th of your stat. If we’re making one party member suffer this much, why not force ALL to share EVERYTHING? That way it’s fair!
let’s say it doesn’t get divided. Now you have 3 stats, while others have 4 stats with one stat that they didn’t have to work for. While we’re at it why not to share all stats? That way it’s a fair exchange.
There’s something wrong with you people. What are you talking about “leech off of other people”? That sure sounds more elitist than anything I’ve ever said. How exactly is it leeching when you’re contributing something to the group? MF might be a great way for less skilled players to contribute something to the group. The other stats already are more or less being added up and divided equally in essence, because it’s only the group’s effectiveness as a unit that matters.
Your argument seriously makes no sense.
your gear only has 3 stats. Magic find is one of the stats you can get. Why sharing it would be unfair for a magic find user.
Let’s say you are in a party with 5 people with no magic find. Now your magic find is only 20% as effective. Now your gear essentially is missing 4/5ths of a stat just so others could have 3 stats + 1/5th of your stat. If we’re making one party member suffer this much, why not force ALL to share EVERYTHING? That way it’s fair!let’s say it doesn’t get divided. Now you have 3 stats, while others have 4 stats with one stat that they didn’t have to work for. While we’re at it why not to share all stats? That way it’s a fair exchange.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense because you essentially are sharing all stats. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF stats on the ‘weak guy’.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this. I am objectively right.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
I still wouldn’t like this.
When I went through the steps to obtain my MF gear, and transmuted some of the MF gear to my liking, it was in order to obtain MF gear, not to have some random set of gear with a random stat sitting in my inventory, only to have to go over an entire new hurdle of things to obtain the magic find I already had.
“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me. -Scarlet”
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?
I still wouldn’t like this.
When I went through the steps to obtain my MF gear, and transmuted some of the MF gear to my liking, it was in order to obtain MF gear, not to have some random set of gear with a random stat sitting in my inventory, only to have to go over an entire new hurdle of things to obtain the magic find I already had.
it shouldn’t be random. In my opinion if they removed mf gear, they should give a choice to every individual of what they want their gear stats changed to.
Indeed, I wouldn’t go with an average, I would go for total up the MF on all players that kill a mob, all players get that bonus when they loot the dead mobs corpse. But have DR on the MF total, so you don’t get silly bonus’ if everyone just stacks MF.
It makes a lot more sense. You would get groups that all take a bit of it to help everyone in the group get better loot. Or possibly Support that run with a lot of MF to give the group a decent loot buff.
You would no-longer have the situation where one person contributes less in DPS or Support and gets better drops. You would have a situation where someone contributes less DPS but better loot to the entire team. In the same way that someone might contribute less DPS to better support the team with healing.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?
Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down. Averaging MF would put it on equal footing as the other stats.
This is seriously not rocket science.
(edited by Einlanzer.1627)
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Also why should entering a dungeon with other people kitten the stats that you have?
there is a new gear set.
Vitality being the highest stat, then toughness, then power. A mf user will outdamage this person. Do you think that the person in those stats is selfish? You would say, no, they survive well. Then why do you oppose mf user? Because even if he survives without vit/ toughness he could sacrifice mf for extra damage, because he is being selfish. So essentially he is being selfish by not providing enough damage even though he can outdamage other gear sets. Not to mention the gear set with mf and condi damage. Condi damage never comes with power anyway. But no, those people are guilty of something too. It’s selfish to care about what others wear.
The person in V/T/P gear sacrificed damage for survivability, where as the person in MF gear traded either damage or survival for more phat loots. The first person made a valid choice that can still benefit them & their party. The second person made a choice that only benefits them, and brings nothing to the party. If you want to wear MF gear when soloing, that is your perogative. The moment you join a group to run instances, you have a responsibility to more than just yourself.
This is not a difficult concept.
MF needs to either be tweaked, or removed. I hope they are able to make it a viable part of the game, but if they can’t, I’m ok with it going away.
Here is the simple (not necessarily easy to implement) fix for magic find.
1. Add an extra utility slot to all weapons and armours which can optionally be fitted with a magic find infusion.
2. People who want MF will just farm it, add it and be done with it and keep all their other stats. People who don’t get it simply won’t get the bonus.
3. Encourages players to ‘finish’ their sets by getting MF infusions, much like sigils, despite not affecting gameplay.
4. ???
5. Enjoy
While they’re at it, they need to review the drop rates for many items in the game. Having only guaranteed blues for champions is a joke. The vast, vast majority of rares let alone blues are complete trash. About the only problem with changing stuff like this is that people will go farm champions and I say let them. CoF P1 will remain the undisputed king of farming regardless.
you know your suggestion is the only one so far in this thread that makes sense. Also instead of removing the whole mf gear they should replace one stat for people that own it so that those people wouldn’t end up naked.
I still wouldn’t like this.
When I went through the steps to obtain my MF gear, and transmuted some of the MF gear to my liking, it was in order to obtain MF gear, not to have some random set of gear with a random stat sitting in my inventory, only to have to go over an entire new hurdle of things to obtain the magic find I already had.
It would require a LOT of effort on ANET’s part, but there is no reason they couldn’t automatically fill the slot with MF infusion for people who already have MF gear. The stats side of it would become…tricky, but at this point that’ll be a problem no matter what if people want to fix the real problem of MF. I suppose they could allow people to simply choose stats with a dialogue box but that could be messy… and potentially controversial.
Unfortunately, we’re too far in the game now for any solutions that won’t be controversial.
The alternative is to replace all MF stat positions with some defaults (say + vit, toughness or something such) and add the filled infusion slot. Again, controversial and will surely net them a lot of money from the tide of transmutation crystals, which, again, will net harsh criticism from the community.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?
But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Excellent point. Let’s remove MF, then.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Yes you are. the better they can stay alive the better it is for you. The more damage they do, the faster you kill things as a party regardless of your contribution. Anything your party tags is eligible for loot, not just you as an individual. You all derive benefit.
…… I don’t know what else to say to you to drive it home.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Excellent point. Let’s remove MF, then.
No it isn’t. I’m amazed by this conversation.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).
they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
Bull. See above. Tagging is based on party, not individual. You benefit from your teammates killing stuff faster. You benefit from your teammates having better attrition. Averaging MF to the party would give it the exact same effect. You are wrong. Period.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Yes you are. the better they can stay alive the better it is for you. The more damage they do, the faster you kill things as a party regardless of your contribution. If you’re in a group you don’t have to tag a mob to get its loot, only your party does. You benefit from it regardless.
…… I don’t know what else to say to you to drive it home.
Except how useful one party members vitality and toughness stats really are is dependent on player skill and their utilisation of the skills they have. Magic find is a completely passive bonus, affecting loot tables and to have it shared between party members completely flies in the face of ANET’s unique loot table philosophy. Never mind the fact that averaging the MF will encourage “100%+ MF to join” groups.
Why should one players magic find which would usually be +25% suddenly be +5% because he plays with a party?
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
Bull. See above. Tagging is based on party, not individual. You benefit from your teammates killing stuff faster. You benefit from your teammates having better attrition. Averaging MF to the party would give it the exact same effect. You are wrong. Period.
no, actually to get loot from a mob you have to do 10% of their health in damage. If a different party member kills a mob you get no loot from it. Averaging mf would make one person have 2 and 1/5 stats, while others get 3 and 1/5 of an extra stat. It’s in no way fair for the mf user. IF you want to get rewards for something you didn’t reach for tough luck.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
Bull. See above. Tagging is based on party, not individual. You benefit from your teammates killing stuff faster. You benefit from your teammates having better attrition. Averaging MF to the party would give it the exact same effect. You are wrong. Period.
Yeah, no. Having MF doesn’t help you finish a dungeon run, in fact, the exact opposite. It’s one thing to simply be a bad player, quite another to knowingly kitten yourself for better loot.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Yes you are. the better they can stay alive the better it is for you. The more damage they do, the faster you kill things as a party regardless of your contribution. If you’re in a group you don’t have to tag a mob to get its loot, only your party does. You benefit from it regardless.
…… I don’t know what else to say to you to drive it home.
Except how useful one party members vitality and toughness stats really are is dependent on player skill and their utilisation of the skills they have. Magic find is a completely passive bonus, affecting loot tables and to have it shared between party members completely flies in the face of ANET’s unique loot table philosophy. Never mind the fact that averaging the MF will encourage “100%+ MF to join” groups.
Why should one players magic find which would usually be +25% suddenly be +5% because he plays with a party?
Uh… HOW would it undermine unique loot tables? You still get unique loot tables.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
How on earth are they preventing teammates from tagging mobs, have you ever been in a Dungeon, all the mobs have so much health that it’s unlikely that team members won’t get a tag on them, especially since they have lowered how much damage you need to do to get a tag. Just because they have Vitality/Toughness does not mean they are not avoiding attacks, But being able to tank some damage does make it easier for them to pick up a downed team-mate without dying in the process. To face tank a boss to make it turn away from squishy team mates.
I’m not asking you to kitten yourself to get free stats. I’m asking that if you kitten yourself (it’s your choice) and therefore kitten the rest of the group by proxy, the team actually gets something out of it. Otherwise people are always going to be after someone that contributes over someone that contributes less to get more personal loot.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
Bull. See above. Tagging is based on party, not individual. You benefit from your teammates killing stuff faster. You benefit from your teammates having better attrition. Averaging MF to the party would give it the exact same effect. You are wrong. Period.
Yeah, no. Having MF doesn’t help you finish a dungeon run, in fact, the exact opposite. It’s one thing to simply be a bad player, quite another to knowingly kitten yourself for better loot.
The key is better loot for your party, not just you.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Excellent point. Let’s remove MF, then.
No it isn’t. I’m amazed by this conversation.
I know it’s not an excellent point, I’m just tired of listening to this person try to explain that they aren’t being selfish when they wear their +MF gear set, and they are actually being productive. I wouldn’t bother trying to explain it to them anymore, because they’re either thick or a troll.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
Bull. See above. Tagging is based on party, not individual. You benefit from your teammates killing stuff faster. You benefit from your teammates having better attrition. Averaging MF to the party would give it the exact same effect. You are wrong. Period.
no, actually to get loot from a mob you have to do 10% of their health in damage. If a different party member kills a mob you get no loot from it. Averaging mf would make one person have 2 and 1/5 stats, while others get 3 and 1/5 of an extra stat. It’s in no way fair for the mf user. IF you want to get rewards for something you didn’t reach for tough luck.
It’s not enough to make a practical difference when it comes to tagging- this is a hyperbole.
You should sacrifice something to get magic find. That makes sense. You’re making your life more difficult in exchange for increased drops. It’s like gambling; it’s fun for some.
To be honest I don’t understand why everyone picks on magic find. There are lots of other stats that don’t help others. You’re stretching it to say that my vitality helps you. And ban all potions because your potions don’t help others; they only help you.
Just let other people play the game the way they want. It’s not a numbers game. Telling other players what armor to wear, what weapons to equip, what skills to use, what traits to invest in, what consumables to consume etc. is not fun.
Once again, this doesn’t make sense. It’s not unfair for the MF user, because the MF user is benefiting from the superior combat stats of the other party members. The superior combatants are benefiting from the MF character.
By its very definition, dungeoning is a group effort. Not an individual one. You guys are seriously off the mark with this.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?Seriously, you are thick. YOU ARE SHARING ALL STATS. It’s a team sport. Just because the stats aren’t literally divided doesn’t mean they aren’t functionally. Good players/builds bring the whole team up, bad ones bring the whole team down.
you don’t benefit from someone else having vitality or toughness, the same way that you don’t benefit from someone having mf. It’s a stat that they have. The same way that you don’t benefit from other’s damage if you’re unable to deliver 10% of it to tag a mob before it dies, therefore getting no loot.
Yes you are. the better they can stay alive the better it is for you. The more damage they do, the faster you kill things as a party regardless of your contribution. If you’re in a group you don’t have to tag a mob to get its loot, only your party does. You benefit from it regardless.
…… I don’t know what else to say to you to drive it home.
Except how useful one party members vitality and toughness stats really are is dependent on player skill and their utilisation of the skills they have. Magic find is a completely passive bonus, affecting loot tables and to have it shared between party members completely flies in the face of ANET’s unique loot table philosophy. Never mind the fact that averaging the MF will encourage “100%+ MF to join” groups.
Why should one players magic find which would usually be +25% suddenly be +5% because he plays with a party?
Uh… HOW would it undermine unique loot tables? You still get unique loot tables.
Are you kidding me?
1. Averaging MF affects the loot tables of each party member.
2. Now there is an incentive for people to only recruit people with X magic find.
3. Your loot is now no longer based solely on what mobs you tag and how much you contribute, but on whether your party members happen to have a passive stat, which they deliberately sacrificed useful gameplay changing stats for.
if it’s a group effort, then why are you not okay with sharing damage, vitality, toughness and condition damage?
Or is it just that you want to benefit from magic users without actually getting the gear yourself?But they are sharing their Damage with the rest of the group, they are killing mobs faster. This helps the group.
They are sharing their Condition Duration with the rest of the group, because there conditions are more useful the team enemy move slower, are blinded, do less damage.
They are sharing their Condition Damage with the rest of the group, mobs are dying faster making it easier for the team to get through the dungeon faster.
Their Toughness/Vitality does help the team, they are less likely to go down and need rezing, they are going to need less healing.
Your Magic Find doesn’t help the team, all it does is help you. Any other stat would help the team more (and by more any value is better than 0, which is what your magic find is contributing to the team).they’re killing the mobs faster preventing their teammates from tagging them or getting any loot from them, they use their vitality/ toughness, go down and die while their squishy teammates have to jump around and avoid attacks. If you don’t want to share your stats with others don’t ask others to kitten themselves so you could get free stats.
How on earth are they preventing teammates from tagging mobs, have you ever been in a Dungeon, all the mobs have so much health that it’s unlikely that team members won’t get a tag on them, especially since they have lowered how much damage you need to do to get a tag. Just because they have Vitality/Toughness does not mean they are not avoiding attacks, But being able to tank some damage does make it easier for them to pick up a downed team-mate without dying in the process. To face tank a boss to make it turn away from squishy team mates.
I’m not asking you to kitten yourself to get free stats. I’m asking that if you kitten yourself (it’s your choice) and therefore kitten the rest of the group by proxy, the team actually gets something out of it. Otherwise people are always going to be after someone that contributes over someone that contributes less to get more personal loot.
try CoE stairs. Mobs are in vast numbers, not a lot of health, can be one hit, if you have one warrior on the group nobody besides him gets loot. There are other places just like these.
If a person with vit/toughness is crap and dirtnaps a lot his vitality and toughness is of no benefit to the team.
If you want another person to kitten his stat to 1/5th of its effectiveness, be prepared to do the same or drop the stupid idea.
Allowing mf users to exchange their gear for whatever they want and allowing all people to get mf trough expensive infusions would be a fair way to do it.
Excellent point. Let’s remove MF, then.
funny thing is that trough out half of this page I’m explaining that the only way to be fair would be to remove mf off gear sets and make a separate infusion slot for it.
But that you for ignoring those points and calling me thick. I appreciate when people that know nothing about me insult my intelligence.
(edited by Mirta.5029)