Guild Wars 2

Just gear check them and kick, there are many spots in dungeons you can see how they preform and guess the gear, hell so many of them are too d……. and still wear same 6th rune for MF. (that bird spawning)

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

My solution would be to disable MF in dungeons. Maybe keep the nourishment/banner/booster bonuses but disable any gear bonuses. This way people can contribute to their full potential in dungeons and use their MF gear while farming (which is the way MF is intended to be used).

I think people are missing the ball on this. It’s not whether or not magic find makes you a leech in dungeons, but the fact a majority of open-world PvE is spent farming.

We’re forced to use Magic Find in Open-World pve instead of using whatever gear we like best. And it’s INCREDIBLY annoying to constantly switch our gear from magic find to dungeon!

Turning Magic Find into an infusion not only frees up the builds we can use, but it’s also a VERY MUCH needed convenience!

For those that say Explorer’s doesn’t have any noticeable difference in effectiveness, a Explorers Scepter gives +128 in stats that help the team. A blue level 68 Sceptre gives +127 in stats that help the team. Someone that is running full explorer is the equivalent of someone entirely equiped in level 68 blues. Thank you, I think I would rather have the person that can’t afford to get Exotics so is wearing a mix of level 80 green and yellow gear.

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

Love these topics, human intelligence at “best” + saves you time from kicking.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people. I suppose I could say the same for those who don’t all go knights which would keep them alive longer allowing them to be more skillful. Did you ever think they got the gear because they need money, and not because in your mind everyone is out to get you who wears MF gear?

You want to know what selfish really means in GW2? Expecting others to play your way and allowing for no other forms of play or opinion.

No, they knowingly made themselves worse because they were only thinking about THEMSELVES. Their only concern when stacking MF is their OWN drops, never mind the group. They joined a group to get the benefits of being in a group, and then chose to contribute less in order to get more.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people. I suppose I could say the same for those who don’t all go knights which would keep them alive longer allowing them to be more skillful. Did you ever think they got the gear because they need money, and not because in your mind everyone is out to get you who wears MF gear?

You want to know what selfish really means in GW2? Expecting others to play your way and allowing for no other forms of play or opinion.

No, they knowingly made themselves worse because they were only thinking about THEMSELVES. Their only concern when stacking MF is their OWN drops, never mind the group. They joined a group to get the benefits of being in a group, and then chose to contribute less in order to get more.

I take it you are using all group traits and group style runes and group food then and skills? And definitely not the selfish zerker gear that gets you downed so that players have to stop and raise you.

Geotherma.2395:

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

That doesn’t prove a thing and you know it. The same crap reasoning…

Geotherma.2395:

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

So all MF users are better players, is that it?
Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players. Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

The problem is that “terrible” stats are subjective-for a “zerk only” player, any other stat combo is “terrible.” By allowing discrimination against MF, we should also allow it against any other stat that doesn’t meet an artificial. subjective criteria.

In short, if you think Healing Power is useless, and that Condition damage is never “as good” as direct damage, some thing like Apothecary’s will ALSO be useless to you and your groups. You could claim Apothecary’s players are being “selfish” by not adopting your “zerk” playstyle (no offense, as you may not even use Berserker’s stats-this is all an hypothetical situation.) This is why I cannot relate to people calling other using what they don’t like “selfish”-there’s no limit to what such terms could be applied.

And no, MF gear players ARE NOT inherently selfish, nor are Berserker’s gear stats “selfless.” Players can be both selfish or selfless, but that must not be related to the gear they use. I occasionally use full exotic MF gear (mix of Wayfarer/s/Traveler’s) on my Guardian, but only on the PvE map-if you think I am being “selfish” while using that on big map events, it’s up to you, but people that know me in real life believe otherwise. Do not judge a person based on their gear preference-he/she is an individual, not a stat number.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

So all MF users are better players, is that it?
Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players. Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.

This.

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people. I suppose I could say the same for those who don’t all go knights which would keep them alive longer allowing them to be more skillful. Did you ever think they got the gear because they need money, and not because in your mind everyone is out to get you who wears MF gear?

You want to know what selfish really means in GW2? Expecting others to play your way and allowing for no other forms of play or opinion.

No, they knowingly made themselves worse because they were only thinking about THEMSELVES. Their only concern when stacking MF is their OWN drops, never mind the group. They joined a group to get the benefits of being in a group, and then chose to contribute less in order to get more.

I take it you are using all group traits and group style runes and group food then and skills? And definitely not the selfish zerker gear that gets you downed so that players have to stop and raise you.

EVERY stat helps the group, directly or indirectly. Those berserkers kill enemies faster, which gets the job done faster, and dead enemies aren’t dangerous.
Every stat, that is, except MF.

Also, “And definitely not the selfish explorer gear that gets you downed so that players have to stop and raise you.” See what I did there? It’s only, you know, the same exact gear, except worse. Any derogatory statement you can make about berserker’s applies identically to explorer’s, except explorer’s is also less effective when it’s used correctly.

odysseas.1786:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

So all MF users are better players, is that it?
Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players. Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.

This.

And what’s the point of MF? Everything in this game is 1) (Super) easy to get
2) Super grindy or got by super luck or not getting caught while exploiting (when some ban hammers came early)

So what do you think you will get with MF in dungeons? Just run CoF if you need to buy something.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

If a skilled player is in MF and lacking stats, and they are good at dungeons, then they should be rewarded for such.

And this is the reason why you can’t understand why people have a problem with it.
The person should NOT be rewarded for it. They are making their group worse, on purpose, for better drops. They do not in any way deserve to get more/better rewards for doing so.
Unless the group agreed to all run MF, since that means they’re fine with it being harder for better rewards.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same. They too lack stats, much lower in fact if they are in greens. So they are being selfish too, because they haven’t got the money or time to get ascended or exotic gear to live up to your standards. I see the logic now. Everyone should run in Exotic or better gear, or you are leeching, because stat wise you aren’t contributing as much as someone with better gear/traits/ping.

Did they choose not to have the time to do fractals? Did they choose not to have enough money for exotics?
Did a MF user choose to take demonstrably terrible stats instead of something useful and then went into a group, where the only one who sees any benefit whatsoever from the terrible stats is himself?

People in MF gear in a party chose to be less useful for their own personal benefit, and such a person does not deserve better drops at the cost of their group.

The problem is that “terrible” stats are subjective-for a “zerk only” player, any other stat combo is “terrible.” By allowing discrimination against MF, we should also allow it against any other stat that doesn’t meet an artificial. subjective criteria.

In short, if you think Healing Power is useless, and that Condition damage is never “as good” as direct damage, some thing like Apothecary’s will ALSO be useless to you and your groups. You could claim Apothecary’s players are being “selfish” by not adopting your “zerk” playstyle (no offense, as you may not even use Berserker’s stats-this is all an hypothetical situation.) This is why I cannot relate to people calling other using what they don’t like “selfish”-there’s no limit to what such terms could be applied.

And no, MF gear players ARE NOT inherently selfish, nor are Berserker’s gear stats “selfless.” Players can be both selfish or selfless, but that must not be related to the gear they use. I occasionally use full exotic MF gear (mix of Wayfarer/s/Traveler’s) on my Guardian, but only on the PvE map-if you think I am being “selfish” while using that on big map events, it’s up to you, but people that know me in real life believe otherwise. Do not judge a person based on their gear preference-he/she is an individual, not a stat number.

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

When you decide to stack some stats (DPS) instead of others (MF), it doesn’t necessarily mean you put the team above everything else.

True. You can be a bad player in Zerker gear, you can be a jerk in Zerker gear. Being in MF gear doesn’t automatically make your a worse addition to your team than ANY player in core gear. But it does make you worse than an equivalent player in core gear.

All else being equal, you, AntiGW, are a worse addition to the team while wearing MF gear than you, AntiGW, would have been in gear that boosts your combat potential instead. By choosing to wear the MF gear instead of the boosting gear, you have made a self-interested choice to be less than you could be.

A player who is not very good does not choose to be not very good, so in that respect you are being a worse person than that other player, even if you are a superior player.

Most times MF gear is cheaper, and perhaps that is all they could afford.

This isn’t true. MF gear is cheaper than equivalent Zerker gear, but there are exotics that cost as much or less as Explorers while offering more useful combat stats. Also, even a rare or below quality armor will offer better combat stats than exotic MF gear, for example Rare Berserker’s armor would offer about 10% less precision than Exotic Explorer’s, but it would offer 20% MORE Power, AND+5% critical damage on top of that. Getting a full suit of rare Zerker gear would likely cost less than a single piece of Exotic MF, and so on down the chain.

So then anyone with less than Ascended gear is essentially doing the same.

If they are doing it deliberately? Yes. If they are doing it because they haven’t earned those things yet, then no. Selfishness is in CHOOSING to reduce the team’s effectiveness for your own benefit, it does not apply if you have no choice in the matter.

There’s a strong myth going around here that people that use MF gear MUST be selfish, which is an argument that always goes in endless circles, for anyone that wants others to use the gear they wish (rather than that which the player wants to use), is also being selfish. Surely there are players that use MF gear that are selfless, and people that use Berserker’s that are all about themselves, and not “the group”, as is usually claimed. The gear does not determine whether a person is selfish at all-that’s about the individual, not the gear (much like not everyone that uses Berserker’s gear must be an elitist either.)

Perhaps, but the gear choice itself is still a selfish one. There can be no self-less explanation for having primarily MF gear on. It doesn’t mean that they are automatically a horrible person, but it does mean that they’ve made at least one noteworthy selfish choice.

What happens is that many people use Berserker’s gear because they are told it’s “the right way to play”, and then do pretty badly on it not because the stats are bad but because it’s not a play style they may actually thrive with. On CoF 1, it’s too easy for most 4 Berserker’s Warriors to fail, but players that are not used to the gear unfortunately fail elsewhere-even on the supposedly “easy” PvE map. Berserker’s is also not “ultimate gear” in the sense that some view toughness/vitality as “training wheels” for the “real gear”-“zerk.” In reality, glass cannon style is not for everybody, just because it may be ideal for you. Use the gear because it suits you, your preferences, and your playstyle-not because you were told it’s the most powerful or “the right way” to play, because ultimately, YOU decide what works for you, not anyone else (that’s what I really believe about Berserker’s-and all-gear.)

True, and maybe Berserker’s gear is not the best choice for your character. Maybe you’d be stronger in Knight’s, or Rampager’s, or even Cleric’s, but the thing is, NO character is more effective in Explorer’s armor than they would be in ANY other armor, and Zerker armor is better for ANY player than Explorer’s would be, from a performance standpoint. Even a character with NO condition damage in their build would get better stats out of Carrion or Rampager armor than they would out of Explorer armor.

So while of course some characters would benefit from wearing something other than Zerker’s, NOBODY benefits the group in any way by wearing MF gear.

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

I believe the point that Geotherma is making is simple: not everyone that uses MF gear is inherently selfish just because you believe he/she is. Selfishness is a personal character trait, not a stat number. People don’t just get such gear to make things harder on others-I don’t like the gear myself, and only use it for better PvE map drops (am not using it as mush as of late either.) They just wanted more MF, not to “selfishly inconvenience you” as you and many others are claiming (of course there MUST be selfish MF users, but that doesn’t make all of them “selfish.”)

I don’t judge other people’s character without knowing them-their gear choice doesn’t give me enough information, being just numbers, and I don’t know their motivations in choosing such gear in any case. Making immediate assumptions about individuals based on what they are using is not the way to go (it would be ridiculous to see all Berserker’s players as necessarily “altruistic,” for instance-though of course they could be.)

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Geotherma.2395:

maddoctor.2738:

Geotherma.2395:

So everyone who “chose” to wear MF gear did so SOLELY because they clearly WANTED to be less useful? Ah yes, and there is the explanation for 90% of this thread. People in MF “chose” to kitten over everyone else who is in better stat gear. Every.. single.. person. So from this I take that everyone hates MF wearers not because of the loss of stat, but more so because they do it ON PURPOSE to mess with people.

That’s EXACTLY the problem, the are doing exactly what you are saying here.

And I will continue to watch zerker builds and people with legendary’s get downed while I am in full exotic MF and using skill instead of relying on my gear to save me. And I’ll continue raising all those hardcore DPS’ers in my farming area with my full MF on because they think their silly 3rd stats counters their lack of skill.

So all Zerker users are better players, is that it?
Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players. Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.

So all Zerker users are better players, is that it?
“Because I have some news for you: the skill of MF users follows the same pattern as anything else: there are good players, average players, bad players.”
You were so close until…
“Except the MF user will perform worse than someone with the same skill but better gear.”
You were in the “We NEED DPS meters!” Thread weren’t you.

Quite simply: MF is the only non-combat-related stat that is on gear. In terms of combat, it can never match up. Defensive stats keep you alive so you can deal more damage over time. Offensive stats kill enemies faster so they deal less total damage to you. Bad.

The only place MF is balanced is in solo play where killing enemies slower is a trade-off for getting better loot. However since most of your damage and survivability comes from your base stats/weapon dmg/armor, it is definitely a better trade-off to use MF gear in solo play. So this forces people to use MF gear in solo play for best results. Bad.

All arguments based on skill being more important than gear stats here are void. Yes I agree that skill is more important. However we are looking at this purely from a gear standpoint, where skill is NOT a variable. Unless there is a correlation between skill level and tendency to use MF gear, which there isn’t so far, one should not consider skill level in this argument. For proper comparison, ALL non-MF variables must be considered equal, and that includes skill level.

Conclusion: remove MF from gear. It is not combat-related, and does not belong in a pool with other stats that are only combat-related. Alternatively, add more non-combat-related stats to gear and create even more of a fuss (bad).

Curo.2483:

Quite simply: MF is the only non-combat-related stat that is on gear. In terms of combat, it can never match up. Defensive stats keep you alive so you can deal more damage over time. Offensive stats kill enemies faster so they deal less total damage to you. Bad.

The only place MF is balanced is in solo play where killing enemies slower is a trade-off for getting better loot. However since most of your damage and survivability comes from your base stats/weapon dmg/armor, it is definitely a better trade-off to use MF gear in solo play. So this forces people to use MF gear in solo play for best results. Bad.

All arguments based on skill being more important than gear stats here are void. Yes I agree that skill is more important. However we are looking at this purely from a gear standpoint, where skill is NOT a variable. Unless there is a correlation between skill level and tendency to use MF gear, which there isn’t so far, one should not consider skill level in this argument. For proper comparison, ALL non-MF variables must be considered equal, and that includes skill level.

And can someone point me now that better loot? Cause 97% of players skip half the dungeon and ALL farming spots have been NERFED. So where is that better loot?

maddoctor.2738:

That’s the problem. I don’t. But the game doesn’t allow me to root out the garbage (MF users) they can ping other gear if they want to.

So when people ping their gear you don’t trust them or something? I have never seen anyone ping false gear. How do you come to the conclusion that a person was wearing mf if they linked berserker’s at the start?

maddoctor.2738:

You require other people to join with you to get your fat loot at their expense and then dare to talk back about elitisism? You say people who don’t want others to laugh at their expense elitists? You say people who want equal rewards, rewards BY SKILL and not by MF extra stats elitists?

And since you conviently missed to quote the most important part I will requote it. Maybe now we can talk about that and who is the elitists (hint: look at the mirror)

I don’t even wear mf. But I run with people wearing mf. How do I know what do they wear? Because they apologize and say. And I respond with “no problem” because I couldn’t give a single piece of horse dung about what people wear. The same way I don’t care what they’re specked for. Do I know what are good spec and gear combinations? Yes. However I’m in no position to instruct people or even kick people for disagreeing with my views on gear and specking.
And I didn’t respond to that one, because that wasn’t what I thought was wrong with the post. What was wrong with your post was
a) apparently magic find users ping false gear to you. How did you figure out that they’re using mf gear? Did you accuse them for doing less damage? How did you even measure how much damage they were doing?
b) You say that people that run with magic find users are elitists. Because it’s so elitist to not care what a person is wearing.

Sovta.4719:

Curo.2483:

Quite simply: MF is the only non-combat-related stat that is on gear. In terms of combat, it can never match up. Defensive stats keep you alive so you can deal more damage over time. Offensive stats kill enemies faster so they deal less total damage to you. Bad.

The only place MF is balanced is in solo play where killing enemies slower is a trade-off for getting better loot. However since most of your damage and survivability comes from your base stats/weapon dmg/armor, it is definitely a better trade-off to use MF gear in solo play. So this forces people to use MF gear in solo play for best results. Bad.

All arguments based on skill being more important than gear stats here are void. Yes I agree that skill is more important. However we are looking at this purely from a gear standpoint, where skill is NOT a variable. Unless there is a correlation between skill level and tendency to use MF gear, which there isn’t so far, one should not consider skill level in this argument. For proper comparison, ALL non-MF variables must be considered equal, and that includes skill level.

And can someone point me now that better loot? Cause 97% of players skip half the dungeon and ALL farming spots have been NERFED. So where is that better loot?

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s, and t5/t6 mats are cheaper, so that they can afford their legendarys and make great gear for cheaper.

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Curo.2483:

Quite simply: MF is the only non-combat-related stat that is on gear. In terms of combat, it can never match up. Defensive stats keep you alive so you can deal more damage over time. Offensive stats kill enemies faster so they deal less total damage to you. Bad.

The only place MF is balanced is in solo play where killing enemies slower is a trade-off for getting better loot. However since most of your damage and survivability comes from your base stats/weapon dmg/armor, it is definitely a better trade-off to use MF gear in solo play. So this forces people to use MF gear in solo play for best results. Bad.

All arguments based on skill being more important than gear stats here are void. Yes I agree that skill is more important. However we are looking at this purely from a gear standpoint, where skill is NOT a variable. Unless there is a correlation between skill level and tendency to use MF gear, which there isn’t so far, one should not consider skill level in this argument. For proper comparison, ALL non-MF variables must be considered equal, and that includes skill level.

And can someone point me now that better loot? Cause 97% of players skip half the dungeon and ALL farming spots have been NERFED. So where is that better loot?

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s, and t5/t6 mats are cheaper, so that they can afford their legendarys and make great gear for cheaper.

Hahahahaha, yea that must be the reason. Not that 80% playerbase is just jumping/grinding from one meta event to another (that gives rare).

Mirta.5029:

maddoctor.2738:

That’s the problem. I don’t. But the game doesn’t allow me to root out the garbage (MF users) they can ping other gear if they want to.

So when people ping their gear you don’t trust them or something? I have never seen anyone ping false gear. How do you come to the conclusion that a person was wearing mf if they linked berserker’s at the start?

maddoctor.2738:

You require other people to join with you to get your fat loot at their expense and then dare to talk back about elitisism? You say people who don’t want others to laugh at their expense elitists? You say people who want equal rewards, rewards BY SKILL and not by MF extra stats elitists?

And since you conviently missed to quote the most important part I will requote it. Maybe now we can talk about that and who is the elitists (hint: look at the mirror)

I don’t even wear mf. But I run with people wearing mf. How do I know what do they wear? Because they apologize and say. And I respond with “no problem” because I couldn’t give a single piece of horse dung about what people wear. The same way I don’t care what they’re specked for. Do I know what are good spec and gear combinations? Yes. However I’m in no position to instruct people or even kick people for disagreeing with my views on gear and specking.
And I didn’t respond to that one, because that wasn’t what I thought was wrong with the post. What was wrong with your post was
a) apparently magic find users ping false gear to you. How did you figure out that they’re using mf gear? Did you accuse them for doing less damage? How did you even measure how much damage they were doing?
b) You say that people that run with magic find users are elitists. Because it’s so elitist to not care what a person is wearing.

Well, in another thread, Kaimick admitted that he pinged his good gear while using MF gear.

Also, for your b) point, he’s referring to people who use MF in groups, not people who run with people who use MF.

Sovta.4719:

And can someone point me now that better loot? Cause 97% of players skip half the dungeon and ALL farming spots have been NERFED. So where is that better loot?

MF relates to your chance to find better loot from killing one specific mob. This is not a discussion about the viability of farming, and the effectiveness of MF in a farming situation. That’s another discussion. Valid point, but out of place.

Remember, all other variables must be taken to be equal. Kill one mob, receive loot from that one mob. MF is clearly better in this situation because the time you would save killing that mob in offensive gear is not great enough to outweigh the increased chance of rare loot. Or is it…? Perhaps MF is actually very useless and the results of using it are negligible. However that is also another discussion entirely.

Geotherma.2395:

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s,

Strange I thought it was all the guaranteed rares from World Events that have nothing at all to do with MF.

AntiGw.9367:

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?

How do people feel about utility infusions? Is it selfish or unacceptable to get an amulet with a utility infusion instead of an offensive/defensive stat? You’d be doing less damage than the people who picked an offensive infusion.

AntiGw.9367:

The MF guy took the right path because he knows that the party kills stuff fast enough already, and he doesn’t feel insecure about his own performance.

In the words of a bandit: “YOU’RE KIDDING ME RIGHT?”

Geotherma.2395:

Sovta.4719:

Curo.2483:

Quite simply: MF is the only non-combat-related stat that is on gear. In terms of combat, it can never match up. Defensive stats keep you alive so you can deal more damage over time. Offensive stats kill enemies faster so they deal less total damage to you. Bad.

The only place MF is balanced is in solo play where killing enemies slower is a trade-off for getting better loot. However since most of your damage and survivability comes from your base stats/weapon dmg/armor, it is definitely a better trade-off to use MF gear in solo play. So this forces people to use MF gear in solo play for best results. Bad.

All arguments based on skill being more important than gear stats here are void. Yes I agree that skill is more important. However we are looking at this purely from a gear standpoint, where skill is NOT a variable. Unless there is a correlation between skill level and tendency to use MF gear, which there isn’t so far, one should not consider skill level in this argument. For proper comparison, ALL non-MF variables must be considered equal, and that includes skill level.

And can someone point me now that better loot? Cause 97% of players skip half the dungeon and ALL farming spots have been NERFED. So where is that better loot?

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s, and t5/t6 mats are cheaper, so that they can afford their legendarys and make great gear for cheaper.

And I wonder if all these MF defenders realize that the fact that MF is in the game is part of the reason the drop rates are so terrible in the first place.

odysseas.1786:

AntiGw.9367:

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?

But for some dungeons you NEED to do better. Unfortunately very few are/are left in game.

Ratty.5176:

Geotherma.2395:

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s,

Strange I thought it was all the guaranteed rares from World Events that have nothing at all to do with MF.

Hence the “part”…part of the statement. But I toss in 20-35 ectos a day from farming and have gotten just as many rares in dungeon (non chest) runs. (Thats never doing event chests) But hey, MF is useless and selfish right? It definitely helps NO ONE in the greater scheme of things. Right?

Geotherma.2395:

Ratty.5176:

Geotherma.2395:

I wonder if all these people complaining about MF wearers would still complain if they knew the MF gear was part of the reason why ectos are 20s,

Strange I thought it was all the guaranteed rares from World Events that have nothing at all to do with MF.

Hence the “part”…part of the statement. But I toss in 20-35 ectos a day from farming and have gotten just as many rares in dungeon (non chest) runs. (Thats never doing event chests) But hey, MF is useless and selfish right? It definitely helps NO ONE in the greater scheme of things. Right?

20-35 ectos? Unless it’s CoF farming, you must be playing 8h+ a day…

Tony.6028:

How do people feel about utility infusions? Is it selfish or unacceptable to get an amulet with a utility infusion instead of an offensive/defensive stat? You’d be doing less damage than the people who picked an offensive infusion.

The Offensive and Defensive infusions are so unbelievably worthless right now they might as well be 0.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Yea, MF players choose that gear for hungry children all over the world. Here it is again, gw2 logic.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Well, in another thread, Kaimick admitted that he pinged his good gear while using MF gear.

Also, for your b) point, he’s referring to people who use MF in groups, not people who run with people who use MF.

well he can block people that admitted it. Also judging from this

maddoctor.2738:

You require other people to join with you to get your fat loot at their expense and then dare to talk back about elitisism?

He was directing this at me, so I corrected him. This is the first full statement:

maddoctor.2738:

It’s funny how people pro-MF call people elitist when they care what gear the other players wear when they are the real elitisists who want to party up with losers to drag them through a dungeon as they INTENTIONALLY got lower gear…

pro-mf doesn’t mean those that wear mf only. Also that sentence can be interpreted in many ways.
“Pro-mf people are the real elitists that want to party up with losers which then they drag trough the dungeon” or “Mf users are the real elitsts because they seek groups to be dragged trough a dungeon”.
I selected the first version so I might have misinterpreted.

Sovta.4719:

odysseas.1786:

AntiGw.9367:

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?

But for some dungeons you NEED to do better. Unfortunately very few are/are left in game.

Only high level fractals tbh. Maybe arah too but P4 was very easy when I guided a group of guildies through it a couple of weeks ago after the dwayna changes. High level fractals though you usually do with your guild who you trust or an experienced pug. In pugs they either gear check or kick weaker players. So you don’t really find people using MF there.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.

odysseas.1786:

Sovta.4719:

odysseas.1786:

AntiGw.9367:

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?

But for some dungeons you NEED to do better. Unfortunately very few are/are left in game.

Only high level fractals tbh. Maybe arah too but P4 was very easy when I guided a group of guildies through it a couple of weeks ago after the dwayna changes. High level fractals though you usually do with your guild who you trust or an experienced pug. In pugs they either gear check or kick weaker players. So you don’t really find people using MF there.

I’m currently doing 40+ FotM (not for very long, cause it gets boring (rng, rng) and they closed 50+) and you can see few MF id…. there. Many people go to LA under the excuse to repair and change gear, funny thing is we all know it. (you can’t hide anything there, everyone knows how and what are others doing)

odysseas.1786:

AntiGw.9367:

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?

To be fair, it wouldn’t bother me in the least. :P I never use my MF gear on Dungeons (in my mind, it’s a possible drop rate vs making it easier for me, and I prefer the latter-not a moral issue), and am always happy whenever anyone gets some great drops, MF gear or not. This is also not a race, nor competition. I am happy when others do well, and hate taking account of how people “perform” on Dungeons, since this isn’t a job review for me (I care about how I play, not about how others do.)

odysseas.1786:

AntiGw.9367:

odysseas.1786:

Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.

The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.

That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.

True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?

Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.

The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.

When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.

You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.

I highly recommend that Anet look at making Magic Find effect the entire group when someone is equipping it with a scenario like this;

The group gets a magic find bonus equal to a certain percentage of the player with the most magic finds stat.

Turn it into a boost like how the trait lines work where any nearby player(s) can have benefits from it (I’m a ranger so kind of like the Spotter trait). The exact percentage of magic find that is shared and the range, etc. of the benefits would have to be played with, but I think this would make a stat that is generally looked down upon as being something way more positive and beneficial to everyone.

Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.

These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.

Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.

“Useless” stats don’t exist for efficiency fiends, and you know that. And if you think I am “selfish” without knowing me, just because a gear decision I made in a game, it’s on you, not on me-I know who I am, and what you think of me doesn’t define who I really am.

Frankly, it’s a bit annoying because the reason most people would hate most MF users is because they theoretically make their runs slower, and doing things fast is their own “selfish” motive. It’s extremely ironic, and why I couldn’t blame anyone for being “selfish” for their individual gear choices (by doing so, I would also be selfish-and intolerant-myself.)

Theftwind.8976:

Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.

These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.

Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.

And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Star Ace.5207:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.

This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.

-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.

-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)

Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.

“Useless” stats don’t exist for efficiency fiends, and you know that. And if you think I am “selfish” without knowing me, just because a gear decision I made in a game, it’s on you, not on me-I know who I am, and what you think of me doesn’t define me.

Frankly, it’s a bit annoying because the reason most people would hate most MF users is because they theoretically make their runs slower, and doing things fast is their own “selfish” motive. It’s extremely ironic, and why I couldn’t blame anyone for being “selfish” for their individual gear choices (by doing so, I would also be selfish-and intolerant-myself.)

I agree, i hate people that don’t want to play (1 path) of dungeon for 1h+, they are so selfih!