Magic Find - What I don't like
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
This is another point, YOU WILL be kicked out in harder dungeons (95%) of times, sooner or later.
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
I won’t be kicked out of anything, because I play with nice people that don’t kick you for stupid reasons.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.
And so I stated I do not care. If I elect to run a dungeon in my optimal armour and someone else wants to wear their MF gear, I DO NOT CARE! I am not one who goes “by the numbers”, spends sleepless nights counting up his DPS, insists on having a gear check before every run, must have the right food stuff. etc. Once you start sweating over how someone else is not keeping up to your dps level, you are being the selfish, greedy, elitist one, not someone wearing magic find.
I don’t get why gear tiers are being brought up. There’s berserker and explorer versions of green gear too. One is never forced into mf gear unless it drops and you never buy anything.
Anyhow, it’s generally expected when you join a group that you do your fair share, and if you don’t, then that’s fine too— just expect to be kicked and don’t complain.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.
-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.
-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)
Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.“Useless” stats don’t exist for efficiency fiends, and you know that. And if you think I am “selfish” without knowing me, just because a gear decision I made in a game, it’s on you, not on me-I know who I am, and what you think of me doesn’t define me.
Frankly, it’s a bit annoying because the reason most people would hate most MF users is because they theoretically make their runs slower, and doing things fast is their own “selfish” motive. It’s extremely ironic, and why I couldn’t blame anyone for being “selfish” for their individual gear choices (by doing so, I would also be selfish-and intolerant-myself.)
Fine. The action is selfish. Except action is all that people will see, regardless of who you are. If the only action of any note you take towards this random person you meet in a PUG is selfishness, and then you never see him again, does it matter to them if you yourself are selfish? Or does it matter that the only indication of your character they were able to see was a selfish action?
tl;dr the selfish action is all they will see, and as such is all that matters for your interaction with them.
I think I resolved this issue with my post on page 7. However you guys just seem to want to argue with each other for argument’s sake. Just think: if I don’t want to read through all your bickering, will anyone else? Will ANet?
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Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.
-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.
-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)
Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.“Useless” stats don’t exist for efficiency fiends, and you know that. And if you think I am “selfish” without knowing me, just because a gear decision I made in a game, it’s on you, not on me-I know who I am, and what you think of me doesn’t define me.
Frankly, it’s a bit annoying because the reason most people would hate most MF users is because they theoretically make their runs slower, and doing things fast is their own “selfish” motive. It’s extremely ironic, and why I couldn’t blame anyone for being “selfish” for their individual gear choices (by doing so, I would also be selfish-and intolerant-myself.)
I agree, i hate people that don’t want to play (1 path) of dungeon for 1h+, they are so selfih!
The difference is that I don’t call one or the other selfish, while a few speed runners would call “selfish” someone who would “slow down” his/her speedrun. I don’t care about how you play-speedruns are OK as long as you respect each other.
Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.
These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.
Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?
Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.
Suggestion to eliminate this issue
Superior Rune of Boosting 0/6:
1: Grant players near you +2% Magic find Bonus.
2: +25 PWR
3: Grant players near you +5% Magic find Bonus.
4: +50 PWR
5. Grant players near you + 10% Magic find Bonus.
6: +90 PWR
Maybe something with different stats, but I propose a new rune to benefit the party more with magic find. I mean I realize we have banners that grant +10% magic find already, but this gives us a way to gain MF and still deal damage. Suggestions for other stats are welcome.
I think I resolved this issue with my post on page 7. However you guys just seem to want to argue with each other for argument’s sake. Just think: if I don’t want to read through all your bickering, will anyone else? Will ANet?
the issue was pretty much solved on page 3. Bickering is fun though.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.And so I stated I do not care. If I elect to run a dungeon in my optimal armour and someone else wants to wear their MF gear, I DO NOT CARE! I am not one who goes “by the numbers”, spends sleepless nights counting up his DPS, insists on having a gear check before every run, must have the right food stuff. etc. Once you start sweating over how someone else is not keeping up to your dps level, you are being the selfish, greedy, elitist one, not someone wearing magic find.
Why do you not understand that there is a wide divide between a minmaxer and someone who wants everyone to put forth their best effort?
If four people are doing everything (within reason) to do well, and one person is slacking, why do the four people not have a right to have a problem with that? Especially when the slacker gets more for their time, BECAUSE they were slacking.
Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.
These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.
Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?
Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.
I love seeing “wasting time” in a video game where essentially, all you do the moment you log in is “waste time” in real life. Why not take that hardcore efficiency to the real world and just stop playing? You could be so much more efficient if your time wasn’t “wasted” on playing a silly game that benefits no one but you. But wait, I can’t really tell you how to run your life, because you will live however you want right? So why should you impose your opinion on others in a game? Your playstyle hinders others just as much as theirs does yours, this is not a single player game.
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http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu
They will change this eventually and they will introduce gear check (“on small doors” so fanboys wouldn’t feel betrayed) just like they introduced their version of raid (guild challenge, fotm) and gear treadmill (insane time gap + time/grind>skill) so this topic is pointless.
Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.
These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.
Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?
Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.
I know that this may sound strange to you, but not “most” people want to clear a dungeon as fast as possible.
Some prefer to have fun, and get the most out of a single dungeon run.
Hence the “part”…part of the statement. But I toss in 20-35 ectos a day from farming and have gotten just as many rares in dungeon (non chest) runs. (Thats never doing event chests) But hey, MF is useless and selfish right? It definitely helps NO ONE in the greater scheme of things. Right?
You can argue that MFers flooding the market lower the price of certain goods, which is true, but it also makers the MFers richer, which increases inflation, making everything more expensive relative to their “earnings”. To a non-MFer, that whole mechanic is at best a wash, so they don’t owe you any favors for farming Ectos out of the goodness of your wallet- I mean “heart.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
I won’t be kicked out of anything, because I play with nice people that don’t kick you for stupid reasons.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Your playstyle hinders others just as much as theirs does yours, this is not a single player game.
And that is why I try NOT to hinder my teammates. Congratulations, you win the thread and now understand everything.
Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.
These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.
Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?
Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.I know that this may sound strange to you, but not “most” people want to clear a dungeon as fast as possible.
Some prefer to have fun, and get the most out of a single dungeon run.
Totally agree, most times those who rushed through the content are the ones qq’ing about being bored and quit the game.
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http://everyonesgrudge.enjin.com/home MY GW2 Music http://tinyurl.com/cm4o6tu
Use what you want when you are farming or doing events, this is why MF is here, so you can get your lodestones off your sparks and your icebrood. But don’t bring MF into dungeons. If you claim you perform as well or better than people with the same stat combo but without MF then congratulations. Now imagine how much better than that you could do if you used gear with one extra stat.
The thing is you don’t need to do better, so there is no need to have that extra stat.
That extra stat is just that, extra. A decent, but not necessary bonus. Not somehing that warrants elitist behaviour.
True you don’t NEED to do better and I won’t kick you out of my dungeon run because you use MF. However you are underperforming while getting better drops. It’s a psycological issue. How would you feel if you won a race (perhaps not a hard one) and the second place runner got the gold medal? Wouldn’t that annoy you?
Nobody is underperforming by wearing MF gear. There is no minimum stat combination that you must be wearing at all times.
The game is balanced around blue/green items. Anyone wearing non-MF blue/greens can clear any dungeon.
When you equip rare/exotic gear, you get some bonus stats that make it easier to do what you could already do just fine. So it’s up to you to decide where do you want to invest the bonus stats from this gear quality.
You can’t arbitrarily assume that anyone not wearing your favourite stats is “underperforming”. If anything, you are “overperforming” by wearing full DPS gear.
You are not performing at your full potential by wearing MF gear so yeah you are underperforming and dragging your team down.True this game is easy and maybe you aren’t hurting anyone by running MF on a CoE or Arah run. However someday you’ll reach fractals lvl 30+ or 40+ and who knows maybe new harder dungeons will be released. Then you will be kicked out of your group for using MF be it right away via checking your gear or later because people will see you not doing much. Also what’s wrong with doing more damage or being tankier if you can do it?
I won’t be kicked out of anything, because I play with nice people that don’t kick you for stupid reasons.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
This is the whole point, put this post somewhere so everybody can see it and just close this tread until changes.
Although I have two sets of exotics, one with MF, and I do not use my MF gear when running dungeons or fractals I do take offense at calling people that do selfish. Think about this carefully. You want people to wear optimal gear so you can complete a dungeon run as fast as possible so you have time to do it again. We have people insisting only zerker gear be used on these runs, we have people requiring gear checks and denying anyone with magic find.
These people are being just as selfish as those that want to wear mf gear. They want it their way or the highway and I would run a dungeon with somebody that wished to wear their mf gear over elitist snobs like that any day of the week because in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game and I do not, nor does anyone else, have the right to dictate how other people enjoy their game. If it takes longer to run the dungeon so what? As long as everyone enjoys the game in the manner they want to. Only those with their own selfish agendas would insist everyone be outfitted the way they are.
Those “gearcentric” people are by far the more selfish people.
And your statement can easily be turned around against MF as well.
“in the end it is about the other persons enjoyment of the game” except when someone runs MF they aren’t thinking about the other persons’ enjoyment, they’re thinking about themselves. They’re wasting their groupmates’ time, which for most people is not enjoyable.Who died and put you in charge of deciding who is wasting the group’s time, and what isn’t most enjoyable for “most”?
Well, math is in charge of the first one, as less damage with no tradeoff benefit means runs take longer, and since only the user benefits from the increase in time spent, the others are having their time spent without compensation i.e. wasted.
As for the second, you don’t know humanity very well if you don’t know people get annoyed when their time is wasted by someone else.I know that this may sound strange to you, but not “most” people want to clear a dungeon as fast as possible.
Some prefer to have fun, and get the most out of a single dungeon run.
Totally agree, most times those who rushed through the content are the ones qq’ing about being bored and quit the game.
Rushing through the content is over. The people left are people who took it slow and really like the game for one reason or the other. Gw2 has great potential to improve but is still imo a great game.
Magic find infusion (in any armor slot gear that is not MF gear) that you could buy with laurels(and/or other currency).
You could apply it to any armor that does not have the MF stat. ie travelers etc
Laurel(or other currency*) MF Armor Supplement
Laurel MF Weapon Supplement*
Laurel MF Accessory Supplement*
So there you have it, buy the items with gold,karma,dungeon relics,laurels maybe a combo of those. Everyone keeps their good gear and runes, and gets to work towards an MF upgrade for every piece of gear. Making them destroyed upon salvaging, and a non removable upgrade = money/karma etc sink, and a continual profit for crafters.
You could however add an infusion spot on MF gear for coin/xp and only coin/XP maybe even karma. So your sacrificing stats again in PVE but you are gaining other economy boosts. Since regular gear can only slot MF they would miss out on coin/xp/karma bonus.
This would make the MF gear a great set for leveling/farming and still make it viable
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Magic-find-Fix-Suggestion/first#post1982742
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(edited by Geotherma.2395)
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
if you’re hit by the jade maw or agony your outfit doesn’t help you much, so I don’t understand, does vitality actually counter agony at higher levels, or how do people not go down in different gear than mf on jade? I mean jade is all about the crystals? Or am I missing something?
Other stats demonstrably DO something to help in a fight. How much and how useful someone thinks it is depends on the person, but it does do something.
MF does literally nothing in a fight, while replacing stats that DO do something.This is ANet’s choice, and not the player’s-blame ANet, and stop assuming MF gear players must be “selfish” (Mr. Colin admitted it was a problem-please stop blaming the players.) It is ignorant to judge people’s character based on this stuff, to be honest with you (not singling you out, many people think like you do.) It speaks worse of you than of those players, for not giving them the benefit of the doubt, and for practicing something that is as bad as selfishness, and keeps destroying lives and dreams all throughout the world-intolerance.
-Players that prefer “efficiency” could call anyone not using what they like “selfish”-to them, you cannot “demonstrate” the usefulness of Healing Power/Vitality/Toughness/Condition Damage.
-MF users can be selfish or not, but the reason they chose the gear must not be selfishness but reasons practical to their situation (even if you would feel “selfish” by doing so, have you considered they may have valid reasons for their gear choice? We are all different from each other.) I have Exotic MF gear, and never feel “selfish” using it-I feel more “crippled”, because I am used to other stats, and it’s the reason why I avoid the gear on Dungeons (not because I am selfless/selfish.)
Why shouldn’t I blame players for their own decisions? They perfectly well decided to use MF to the detriment of the group, the devs didn’t force them to.
As for non-zerker stats, no matter what people may think of them they still do EXIST in combat. MF does literally nothing whatsoever to help fight.“Useless” stats don’t exist for efficiency fiends, and you know that. And if you think I am “selfish” without knowing me, just because a gear decision I made in a game, it’s on you, not on me-I know who I am, and what you think of me doesn’t define me.
Frankly, it’s a bit annoying because the reason most people would hate most MF users is because they theoretically make their runs slower, and doing things fast is their own “selfish” motive. It’s extremely ironic, and why I couldn’t blame anyone for being “selfish” for their individual gear choices (by doing so, I would also be selfish-and intolerant-myself.)
Fine. The action is selfish. Except action is all that people will see, regardless of who you are. If the only action of any note you take towards this random person you meet in a PUG is selfishness, and then you never see him again, does it matter to them if you yourself are selfish? Or does it matter that the only indication of your character they were able to see was a selfish action?
tl;dr the selfish action is all they will see, and as such is all that matters for your interaction with them.
Well, this selfishness cycle would never end, and they could call you “selfish” for not wanting to have them in your party-even if you were not being selfish at all, and just wanted to have your normal speedrun for the day. That’s why claiming one action is worse than the other is not necessary-and especially since you don’t really know each other.
I frankly don’t even ask what anyone else is using, so if they are using MF gear, I never realize it. Thus I never even wonder if people are being selfish or not in my runs in the first place (or if they are “noobs”/“baddies”, etc.-I don’t like looking for “possible problems” in my group players.) I do notice bad attitudes, because they may cause bad morale and groups breaking. But if everyone is getting along, I honestly don’t care what they are using, whether they are “support” or DPS, etc.)
As I said before: “LF more, no MF gear please” solves the theoretical problem in a very civil manner. No need to call out each other names, or call MF players selfish just because they don’t play your way. Don’t play with them, that’s fine, but no need to call them out on their MF gear choice as if it was an important moral issue.
I do hate selfishness in real life, BTW, but I couldn’t be at peace with myself calling people that I don’t know and that do not necessarily see things my way “selfish”.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
if you’re hit by the jade maw or agony your outfit doesn’t help you much, so I don’t understand, does vitality actually counter agony at higher levels, or how do people not go down in different gear than mf on jade? I mean jade is all about the crystals? Or am I missing something?
Vitality doesn’t count as it is %health damage. Your accessories amulet and rings do though and if you have MF infusions on those you’ll die.
I do hate selfishness in real life, BTW, but I couldn’t be at peace with myself calling people that I don’t know and that do not necessarily see things my way “selfish”.
But you won’t truly get to know all that many people over your lifetime. You’ll only know a handful well enough to truly be able to judge whether or not they are selfish.
But you can deem certain actions as selfish without having to know the person.
And people aren’t all good or all bad. Selfless people may make selfish decisions now and then, and vice versa. But them normally being a selfless person doesn’t stop the action from being selfish.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
The two sides of this argument seem to be missing each other, and back a few pages someone had the right idea when they pointed out there is a practical and philosophical divide. I think most people arguing against magic find are coming from the philosophic point of view: that the stat, as a concept, doesn’t really fit in a teamwork setting. MF the stat itself (ie, not the person wearing it) is providing a non-combat gain for the wearer only. The argument on the other side seems to be about freedom of choice, and that a few points missing from a gear set is not what really matters when we are talking about contributing to a team. I agree with that point, and I think in informs us how we should deal with current MF and the people who use it. However, at best, all that argument is saying is that MF has a negligible impact and so isn’t a major issue, rather than answering directly the claim that MF, as it currently exists, is the only armor stat that benefits just the wearer. As we read from the dev post, Anet agrees that there is a problem from the philosophic point of view. It’s not fair to call people who wear MF selfish, but it’s also not good to shoot down people trying fix the system by saying “it doesn’t matter” – clearly it does to Anet, and it does to a lot of players. We deal with it, sure, we respect other player’s personal decisions and recognize that skill plays the most important role, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem that should be discussed.
(edited by rfdarko.4639)
So if I equip my Warrior in full clerics gear with a mace main hand and put all my traits in toughness/vitality to maximize my survivability with all of my skills to help me and me only will I be contributing more to the party that if was wearing MF gear?
All these arguments about MF gear being inferior than other gear are ridiculous. Gear does not make the player. It’s not as if dungeons are hard. I run with guildies and we all have full exotic MF gear on and get through them just fine. So our CoF path 1 took 10 mins instead of 8 or 5, big kittening deal.
If you don’t want MF in your party then specify it on LFG when assembling your team or build a circle of MF hating friends and run dungeons with them and quit running with pugs.
I don’t know you, you are not my friend, I don’t owe you anything more than a smooth run. Whatever gear I choose to do that with is my business and if I can provide that smooth run in my MF gear then you have nothing to complain about
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Let me make a suggestion while we’re at it by the way. How about we have your normal gear and we go ahead and add one extra slot to it for MF. So top tier gear will have all the good stats without the useless MF plus a spot for a MF infusion or some new type of MF upgrade. You get your MF and everyone else gets a better experience because you perform better and contribute more.
Vitality doesn’t count as it is %health damage. Your accessories amulet and rings do though and if you have MF infusions on those you’ll die.
I don’t know a single mf person that runs high level fractals without the actual agony resistance infusions.
Lets be honest this game has nothing to do with magic find and more like luck. If the game randomizer really likes you enough. Then you get what ever its kind of like playing in a casino. They give 100 people prizes to make you think you are going to get something to keep you playing but, i bet 90% of you are never going to get a legendary with out have to pay anet for it cause thats how they make their money IT’S A TRAP!!!!!
Vitality doesn’t count as it is %health damage. Your accessories amulet and rings do though and if you have MF infusions on those you’ll die.
I don’t know a single mf person that runs high level fractals without the actual agony resistance infusions.
My point exactly.
They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip.
If they would be secretly annoyed at a friend for their good fortune, I wonder if they were really “nice friends” to begin with.
I can’t relate with all the begrudging of someone else’s fortune. It’s not as if MF find guaranteed that player the “better” drops. The improvement exists, but good drops will still be hard to come by. And if he/she gets better drops, what’s the problem? What do you have to lose by someone else’s gain?
“We could have been faster!” But also slower. Things could have gone in many directions, positive or negative, and regardless of gear used.
So if I equip my Warrior in full clerics gear with a mace main hand and put all my traits in toughness/vitality to maximize my survivability with all of my skills to help me and me only will I be contributing more to the party that if was wearing MF gear?
Maybe you will be more effective, if you’re not good enough to stay alive without the survival stats. If you’re up and dealing damage or distracting enemies instead of dirtnapping you’re probably being more effective. You’ll also obviously be better suited toward resurrecting fallen allies.
However, this is why you don’t compare gear with separate sets of stats, they perform different functions.
Comparing Explorer’s directly to Berserker’s, which has both the non-MF stats in common with it, turns up with the result of Explorer’s being undeniably weaker in combat, as its Power is lower and it lacks Crit Damage, and is otherwise the same.
As such, you are contributing the same (if you dealt 0 damage because you dirtnapped) or better (if you deal any damage) in Berserker’s than you would in Explorer’s.
Excellent point. Let’s remove MF, then.
funny thing is that trough out half of this page I’m explaining that the only way to be fair would be to remove mf off gear sets and make a separate infusion slot for it.
But that you for ignoring those points and calling me thick. I appreciate when people that know nothing about me insult my intelligence.
You’re correct, I shouldn’t have called you thick. It was inappropriate of me to make a personal attack, & I apologize. Now let me address the rest of your comment on it’s merits, or rather it’s lack of any such thing.
I think it’s more accurate to say that throughout this entire thread you’ve been trying to convince people that MF is some sort of sacred personal choice that has no impact on the rest of your party.
I don’t care that you want to make it an infusion, that doesn’t change the fact that you will be replacing a stat that indirectly benefits the entire party, with a stat that directly benefits only you. What you’ve suggested is nothing more than a shell game that fails to address the fundamental flaw of MF.
The fact is this:
People using MF are sacrificing part of either their DPS or their survivability in order to get better loot. By doing so, they reduce their contributions to the group’s efforts, in order to increase their personal gain. While running solo, this is a matter of your personal choice. When running with a group, this is a wholely selfish choice. If you cannot see this, then we have nothing further to discuss & I bid you good night.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
You are assuming that he’s bad because of his gear. :P He and his friends may as well not wipe as you claim. Do not judge his skill based on his gear.
Actually magic find gear in dungeons and fractels makes your party a whole lot weaker. Now they are wasting a good buff for 3% i would kick them cause i know they are not contributing and i am a dungeon master. I know when your not helping. I will take anyone with a willing heart and at least trying to make there build as good as possible. However, condition scepter guardians no not in my group.
So if I equip my Warrior in full clerics gear with a mace main hand and put all my traits in toughness/vitality to maximize my survivability with all of my skills to help me and me only will I be contributing more to the party that if was wearing MF gear?
All these arguments about MF gear being inferior than other gear are ridiculous. Gear does not make the player. It’s not as if dungeons are hard. I run with guildies and we all have full exotic MF gear on and get through them just fine. So our CoF path 1 took 10 mins instead of 8 or 5, big kittening deal.
If you don’t want MF in your party then specify it on LFG when assembling your team or build a circle of MF hating friends and run dungeons with them and quit running with pugs.
I don’t know you, you are not my friend, I don’t owe you anything more than a smooth run. Whatever gear I choose to do that with is my business and if I can provide that smooth run in my MF gear then you have nothing to complain about
To your first question yes. You are an absolute meatshield and while you might not have the optimal build you’re taking the hits and the rest of us can happily deal our damage. Now as to your other points. Yes as I said the game is easy. Yes you can give me a smooth run with your MF gear and I appreciate your basic knowledge of the dungeon and ability to play. Would I rather you be in normal gear? Yes. Do I mind? No. But unfortunately for you not everything is easy. Fractals are hard on high levels and while I can do a dungeon with 5 thieves it’s not gonna work out so well in fractals. Especially if they have MF gear. It all goes back to Anets philosophy of parties doing dungeons with w/e combination of classes they like. When you get to hard content like fractals there will be ways to do it and ways not to. You’ll need every possible resource at your disposal and MF gear is inferior by default. And no CoF path 1 isn’t the end game or hard content so your 4 warriors 1 mesmer all running MF will work just fine like anet intended.
People using MF are sacrificing part of either their DPS or their survivability in order to get better loot. By doing so, they reduce their contributions to the group’s efforts, in order to increase their personal gain. While running solo, this is a matter of your personal choice. When running with a group, this is a wholely selfish choice. If you cannot see this, then we have nothing further to discuss & I bid you good night.
It has nothing to do with morals or “selfishness.” Many non-MF users are selfish too.
Good night to you as well.
I don’t care that you want to make it an infusion, that doesn’t change the fact that you will be replacing a stat that indirectly benefits the entire party, with a stat that directly benefits only you. What you’ve suggested is nothing more than a shell game that fails to address the fundamental flaw of MF.
The fact is this:
People using MF are sacrificing part of either their DPS or their survivability in order to get better loot. By doing so, they reduce their contributions to the group’s efforts, in order to increase their personal gain. While running solo, this is a matter of your personal choice. When running with a group, this is a wholely selfish choice. If you cannot see this, then we have nothing further to discuss & I bid you good night.
If they added infusion slots on all armor specifically for mf/ gold/ karma, what exactly are you sacrificing?
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
You are assuming that he’s bad because of his gear. :P He and his friends may as well not wipe as you claim. Do not judge his skill based on his gear.
I’m not assuming anything. He could be very good and probably is a very competent player. The fact of the matter is he will eventually hit the point where gear limitations exist. MF gear is worse than its’ normal equivalent and I think any sensible person can agree on that. Hence he will have to get better gear or else he will wipe.
Maybe you will be more effective, if you’re not good enough to stay alive without the survival stats.
This is personal opinion: non-Berserker gear stats players can be better than you-using other gear is not training wheels at all. Perhaps they just prefer the alternate playstyle? I do not understand why people must excuse Berserker’s playstyle by putting down every other playstyle. You like it, it works for you, use it. No need to claim that Berserker’s players “are better” because they are “good enough to survive without the other stats.”
Not related with the MF thread, but will always reply when I see that. It’s just your perception of the game, and not true for 100% of the players. Ask the developer’s if this game is supposed to be played with Berserker’s stats as the ultimate set for ultimate skill.
Oh you play with nice people? Well so do I. Nobody will tell you anything when you are doing a normal dungeon. They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip. It’s just a casual easy dungeon after all and we’re all friends and having fun. But let me tell you one thing. If your team wipes in a fractal because you can’t kill stuff fast enough or you can’t take the hits for a long enough time you WILL be kicked and replaced and your friends will kindly ask you to switch gear, or just not invite you again alltogether. If we were friends, in game or irl, and close enough so I wouldn’t get mad at you for failing, I’d definately be annoyed at your incompetence and drop hints at you to look at guides or change your gear. Cause look, I know you, I like you, you’re my friend, but when you waste 2 hours on lava shaman cause you can’t kill the adds fast enough or wipe us at jade maw cause you had to be ressed because of your MF infusions I’ll get mad.
Again, you arbitrarily assume things…
The crewes I play with value playing with people more than playing fast or having 1337 gear. Sometimes they volunteer to fill a dungeon party even though they don’t need anything from that dungeon.
That’s what is really not selfish. Not demanding that everyone should use what they want.
And I told you at some point you will move on to tougher stuff and you will either change/expand your circle of people you play with or you and your friends will all ascend to the next level. And then while they value playing with people I can 100% guarantee you that they don’t like wiping over and over and you’ll have to change.
You are assuming that he’s bad because of his gear. :P He and his friends may as well not wipe as you claim. Do not judge his skill based on his gear.
I’m not assuming anything. He could be very good and probably is a very competent player. The fact of the matter is he will eventually hit the point where gear limitations exist. MF gear is worse than its’ normal equivalent and I think any sensible person can agree on that. Hence he will have to get better gear or else he will wipe.
Correction: you assume he will (sorry, meant not offense but it’s true.) “Gear limitations” are tied to player experience, skills, Professions, and builds. There are no specific ways to conquer content other than being good at conquering it. Therefore, he may surprise you with his “inferior” gear, because of superior skill and teamwork/synergy.
Feel free to disagree, and it’s not personal.
They will all secretely be annoyed at your better drops and less contribution but they’ll let it slip.
If they would be secretly annoyed at a friend for their good fortune, I wonder if they were really “nice friends” to begin with.
I can’t relate with all the begrudging of someone else’s fortune. It’s not as if MF find guaranteed that player the “better” drops. The improvement exists, but good drops will still be hard to come by. And if he/she gets better drops, what’s the problem? What do you have to lose by someone else’s gain?
“We could have been faster!” But also slower. Things could have gone in many directions, positive or negative, and regardless of gear used.
It doesn’t bother me when other people get “better” loot. If they get a cool piece, good for them. After all, it could be me next time. What bothers me, is when people sacrifice utility for personal gain and the try to say they aren’t affecting anything.
All other things being equal, if you are using MF gear, you are contributing less than the other individuals in your group. Yet, you get a better chance at “better” loot, while others get a better chance at a higher repair bill.
I don’t think that Anet needs to remove MF entirely, but I do think the implementation needs to be reconsidered.
As far as the argument that the run could have gone better, regardless of gear used, I submit to you this idea:
Gear is a modifier to survivability and damage output. If your modifier is low, the run takes longer, which means the more time you spend on a given target. This allows for more random variables to creep in. Higher modifier equals less time on target, which in turn equals less variables to account for in a given run.
Just an idea I’m working on.
Those arguing that mf gear in groups is not selfish are trolls, getting under your skin. There’s no way they believe their foolish comments. Just relax and watch them flail.
I’m not saying it’s not a selfish stat. It is, but just because some people choose to run sub-optimal build does not mean they are not contributing to the group and that they are being carried by the rest or leeching off others. If they can stay alive and do some damage and the job gets done, where is the kittening problem? It’s not a job where you have to fill a monthly quota in order to get paid and 1 guy is slacking off. It’s a kittening game.
If you did not specify in LFG that you didn’t want MF gear in your party then to bad for you, I will be wearing it. If the run goes smoothly I’will keep it on, if it looks like the group’s struggling I will change gear to help carry the weak link (I hate bad runs too). If you did not specify in LFG that you did not want MF in your party and then ask me to ping my gear after I have joined I will ping you my non MF set. Do the run and when it is over and you are saying good job, great run, I will ping you my awesome drops and my MF gear and leave.
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Maybe you will be more effective, if you’re not good enough to stay alive without the survival stats.
This is personal opinion: non-Berserker gear stats players can be better than you-using other gear is not training wheels at all. Perhaps they just prefer the alternate playstyle? I do not understand why people must excuse Berserker’s playstyle by putting down every other playstyle. You like it, it works for you, use it. No need to claim that Berserker’s players “are better” because they are “good enough to survive without the other stats.”
Not related with the MF thread, but will always reply when I see that. It’s just your perception of the game, and not true for 100% of the players. Ask the developer’s if this game is supposed to be played with Berserker’s stats as the ultimate set for ultimate skill.
Uh that IS what I’m saying there? There’s advantages and disadvantages to all gear (except MF, only disadvantages). Or are you replying to the person I was replying to?
Excellent point. Let’s remove MF, then.
funny thing is that trough out half of this page I’m explaining that the only way to be fair would be to remove mf off gear sets and make a separate infusion slot for it.
But that you for ignoring those points and calling me thick. I appreciate when people that know nothing about me insult my intelligence.You’re correct, I shouldn’t have called you thick. It was inappropriate of me to make a personal attack, & I apologize. Now let me address the rest of your comment on it’s merits, or rather it’s lack of any such thing.
I think it’s more accurate to say that throughout this entire thread you’ve been trying to convince people that MF is some sort of sacred personal choice that has no impact on the rest of your party.
I don’t care that you want to make it an infusion, that doesn’t change the fact that you will be replacing a stat that indirectly benefits the entire party, with a stat that directly benefits only you. What you’ve suggested is nothing more than a shell game that fails to address the fundamental flaw of MF.
The fact is this:
People using MF are sacrificing part of either their DPS or their survivability in order to get better loot. By doing so, they reduce their contributions to the group’s efforts, in order to increase their personal gain. While running solo, this is a matter of your personal choice. When running with a group, this is a wholely selfish choice. If you cannot see this, then we have nothing further to discuss & I bid you good night.
I’ve had trouble with that person as well, and yes this is a fact. This is also why sharing it across the party as an average is the only solution that makes a lick of sense that I’ve seen so far and just so happens to be a very simple one.