Guild Wars 2

I m sick of playing with pugs in dungeon and PVE event who are built like origami swans who wilt at the first sign of damage and are 99% of the time the first one dead on the floor crying for a ress. MAGIC FIND LEACH we have all seen them and hate them equally.

You all know who i’m talking about here we have all seen them or had the misfortune to play with them running about orr, in dungeon, fractals everywhere. The fall glass cannon 150% magic find build “Useless is what it should be known as” in my opinion this needs to be removed as all they are doing is leaching of the rest of the team and bring nothing to the group as a whole, apart from dead wait to be carried.

Don’t get me wrong here i have no problem with magic find food or on accessories, Rings, needless, earrings and back piece are all fine but having magic find on your armor pieces and or runes should not be allowed fall stop. As all this ends up doing is taking vital stats away from you build removing your effectiveness in an group helping no one but yourself.

So Anet why not make magic find armor and runes unavailable so no one can remove effectiveness from an entire group with their selfish builds.

This above is the main reason i want be making pug groups for dungeon anymore.

While I don’t share your strong sentiments I agree that Magic Find as a gear-stat is counterproductive.

I’d prefer if it was a game-play stat, something you could get from banners, food and even boosters. Just not from gear.

And interesting idea might be if Magic Find was a buff you that would stack after being alive for a certain period of time or something you get from killing particular mobs or Veterans.

You could do much more interesting things with Magic Find (like getting a boost after finishing a juming puzzle) than have it as a gear stat.

Actually, I think it should stay, and just be extended to the entire party.

So a player running 100% MF would boost the entire party’s MF by 100%. That means everybody gets benefits from their gear (just as they would if they’d put those points into damage or healing instead) and they’re not leeching, they’re actually contributing in a significant way.

Quick and easy fix to an otherwise messy issue.

did you know that stat wise jewelry with coherent upgrade give you more stats than armor?

If you don’t die and pull your weight in a grou, you could go naked for all I care.

But I agree: Before you use magic find, make sure you can handle the content fully geared.

The simplest solution is usually the best: make other people’s character sheets viewable. This would fix the problem, without causing annoyance to people by removing a load of equipment. You don’t want MF in your party? Look at what they use and kick them.

critickitten.1498:

Actually, I think it should stay, and just be extended to the entire party.

So a player running 100% MF would boost the entire party’s MF by 100%. That means everybody gets benefits from their gear (just as they would if they’d put those points into damage or healing instead) and they’re not leeching, they’re actually contributing in a significant way.

Quick and easy fix to an otherwise messy issue.

Do it D3 style.

Cumulative MF% of entire party / Number of people in Party

critickitten.1498:

Actually, I think it should stay, and just be extended to the entire party.

So a player running 100% MF would boost the entire party’s MF by 100%. That means everybody gets benefits from their gear (just as they would if they’d put those points into damage or healing instead) and they’re not leeching, they’re actually contributing in a significant way.

Quick and easy fix to an otherwise messy issue.

I agree. I believe magic find could have better implementation than it currently does. Having it effect the entire party would support the “team oriented” nature of GW2’s content and would at least partially eliminate the “selfish” nature it currently holds. Every piece of gear should be able to enhance the party, that being said however, discriminating against one type of gear or the other does not prevent being grouped with “bad” or “leeching” players as gear has no direct impact on dodging red death, situational awareness , experience or anything else that actually makes someone “good”.

TL;DR – I like MF, I just wish it contributed to the party.

MF doesnt effect whole party in this game? seriously?

Are you guys for real??

I know im new but wow that is some epic design fail on so many levels…….

Bad players must go, magic find stays if that’s what it really is about.

Bad players must go… you know who I’m talking about… those players that are built like an origami kitten who just stand there and die in AOE’s or let Kholer put them through his blender 5 times in 2 minutes.

Also bad attitudes…. I’m sick to death of bad attitudes. I’ll kick you out of my dungeon group in a heartbeat for abusing anyone in the party or making my playing experience in any way negative as far as my interactions with you go. I could care less what you are wearing.

RoadKill.7459:

i swear all you magic find zealots are just kitten in the punch bowl of gw2.
mf gear has power and prec on it and if you have toughness and vit your just as able to deal damage as the next.
and ya no gear score pu pu on the elitest jerks trying to take all the fun out of gw2.

You lose potential stats in place of magic find its quite obvious that it only benefits the player. Player skill aside id take someone with zerker/knights/etc over someone with magic find anyday

you can run any instance in gw2 with all 5 players in mf gear no problem.
gear does not = skill in gw2 as a matter of fact it’s less than 30% of your stats at 80.
so once again the anti mf zealots cry foul for no reason what so ever.

Gear is supposed to support your build, as in critical builds, conditions, support, survivability, that’s the point of gear. Why then have a stat that’s completely counterintuitive to that process? If items are supposed to be about your fighting prowess and getting the most out of your character, why is there a stat that rewards you outside of combat and even hampers you by removing from the stat building process?

If the game’s drops weren’t so shoddy, then MF wouldn’t seem a requirement. MF should be relegated to consumables, guild boosts, boosters. Maybe we should have an extra slot called charms in your inventory that directly deals with XP, MF, GF sort of bonuses, so you can juggle their gains and worth amongst themselves.

Perhaps ANet should incorporate new mechanics, i.e. shrines around the world that grant limited MF/GF. How about special achievement unlocks, which give you MF boost items that you can use a limited time, which will recharge on a cooldown, or gain charges as you complete more achievements?

There are a lot smarter designs to make MF work for everyone, rather than chucking it onto gear.

Trickstick.7523:

The simplest solution is usually the best: make other people’s character sheets viewable. This would fix the problem, without causing annoyance to people by removing a load of equipment. You don’t want MF in your party? Look at what they use and kick them.

Kicking them is basically griefing, if someone doesn’t like MF they should be the one leaving, if everyone leaves that’s one thing but kicking someone because you don’t like their gear is your problem not theirs so don’t force it on them and throw a tantrum about it just leave since you’re the one with the issue.

i either run full mf or run naked … i can do p1-2 of cof and fwd-fwd TA without even being downed when naked (and by this i mean no armor or back peice just r/a/a… only time this has been an issue is when someone else in the group fails to pull there weight and you end up being last alive cause everyone was ressing them… i have 2 sets of armor that are the exsact same a full damage and a full mf and i will happyly link the wrong one in dungons and no one is wiser… if checking other peoples charater sheet becoems availble i will just never pug again or find some way to toggle armors periodicaly so no one overlooks my fliped stats

People are so used to games where stats make the major difference. When fractals first came out, I was naked from broken armor and still finished a fractal without dying again. The gear in this game isn’t like the gear in most games. So the one stat on each piece of armor (assuming the person in question has magic find on EVERYTHING) isn’t going to be that much of a difference. It might, by the end of the dungeon, save you a couple of minutes and it might not. But it’s not as big a deal as people are making out.

Stats on armor are a small percentage of your overall stats, and one of the three attributes on each piece is even less than that.

We have guys in our guild who run dungeons in magic find armor all the time and they don’t die any more than anyone else (which isn’t much in most dungeons anyway).

critickitten.1498:

So a player running 100% MF would boost the entire party’s MF by 100%.

That’s… rather a lot of potential magic find. Not that I know whether even 500% or so would be all that great, but still.

For me the issue ISN’T so much:
- MF is on gear to contest with stats. But stats don’t matter, so L2P, because you can pull your weight without relying on your stats.

Just saying that shows how broken the whole thing is…
If gear stats don’t matter, then that goes to show how badly designed combat is at the moment. There should be more to fights than dodging and hitting mountainous HP. But this is an issue for another thread.

For me the issue IS:
- MF is on gear to contest with stats that should matter. Your builds should mean something.
And right now to squeeze the most out of drops, as bad as they are, MF is almost a must. This shouldn’t be the case, MF should be an extra game mechanic, it shouldn’t even be an option to conflict with your build options.

Do you hate on Valkyrie/ Soldier’s/ Rabid sets for not contributing as much as Beserker/ Knight’s / Carrion sets too? Do you hate on people who wear sub-exotic gear too? I don’t know, the argument that Magic Find decreases efficiency loses it’s appeal once you realize that you do roughly the same damage in exotic Soldier’s as masterwork MF.

That being said, I find the haters quite hypocritical that the exact same people are fine with sub-exotics and pirateish gear, which essentially are the same/weaker than magic find sets, and still hate on magic find because it is weaker. I say go the whole way for consistency’s sake.

So let’s start bashing people who wear Valkyrie’s. Why are you not using Beserker’s good sir? And those offensive Soldier stats! Two minor stats all for yourself? How selfish!

Now that I think of it, it does seem to be happening in CoF 1 at least.

Kid Taylor.5479:

That being said, I find the haters quite hypocritical that the exact same people are fine with sub-exotics and pirateish gear, which essentially are the same/weaker than magic find sets, and still hate on magic find because it is weaker. I say go the whole way for consistency’s sake.

Honestly, I couldn’t care less if my entire dungeon party runs with MF gear, I don’t even understand how people get annoyed about what someone else is doing. Dungeons aren’t all that difficult to begin with.

What I’m bothered about is that MF on gear irks me from a design stand point. I’ll just repeat what I said previously:
- Right now to squeeze the most out of drops, as bad as they are, MF is almost a must. This shouldn’t be the case, MF should be an extra game mechanic, it shouldn’t even be an option to conflict with your build options.

Stats on gear should matter, it should be important what you choose, and a non-combat stat (the only non-combat stat) have no place being there. As I suggested earlier as well, MF would work a lot better with special mechanics, like:
Shrines around the world that grant limited MF/GF.
Achievement unlocks, which give you MF boost items that you can use a limited time, which will recharge on a cooldown, or gain charges as you complete more achievements?
Maybe even items you can buy tat works like that.
MF should be on boosts and consumables.

Omnomberry Bar 30% MF – 40% Gold – +10XP
Guild Buff 10% MF
Guild Buff 5% XP
Guild Banner 5% XP
Guild Banner 10% MF
Magic Find Booster 50% MF
Experience Booster 50% XP
Laurel Coin Booster 30% Gold
Laurel MF Booster 30% MF
Laurel XP Booster 30% XP

130% MF
70% Gold
90% XP
+10 Xp

0 Gear.

Just my 2 cents.

It’s great that some of you can successfully run a dungeon in full MF or naked without ever downing. Now please teach it to the rest of the population that could actually benefit from some toughness, vitality, or offensive stats that ensures faster kills for “active defense” in place of having MF.

Thanks.

Rifter.6591:

MF doesnt effect whole party in this game? seriously?

Are you guys for real??

I know im new but wow that is some epic design fail on so many levels…….

No it is not.

Once again the problem lies in the community and not in the game design, those people who are “bad” at the game and still insist on using MF Gear even though they get grounded by every mob in a dungeon are just flat out stupid and stubborn and don’t want to contribute anything to the group. Those are the people who play warrior with GS and Rifle and 5 Signets in a GROUP!

i find when puging at a loss also due to haveing to carry “search and rescue” as a skill when i could easily for my sake use a signet or a trap that could help me personaly or even a spirit. and thats coming from one of your “mf leaches”

kokiman.2364:

those people who are “bad” at the game and still insist on using MF Gear even though they get grounded by every mob in a dungeon are just flat out stupid and stubborn and don’t want to contribute anything to the group. Those are the people who play warrior with GS and Rifle and 5 Signets in a GROUP!

No, those are Berserker Warriors and probably deal more damage than the other 4 party members combined, given that there aren’t any other Warriors in the party.

Yes, some people suck at it and should play a support Guardian instead, but stop generalizing because there’s a lot of people who are good at it and don’t die more than average.

Uh, if we talk about mf gear troubling the whole party, why not just take the second set of armour? I do that. it’s not so difficult to double click your other pieces and hey – the player becomes useful to the whole group!

Now in case someone will comment like “they use it to get the better loot in the dungeons” I’d like to say (psst mf wielders, pay attention) – with my main armor set I get exotics in the dungeon much more often than in mf armor. Tested. My friend also has a guardian who has mf gear only and she gets nothing at that moment when I can get an exotic. Even named. Even 2 runs running 1 exotic each. So all these prejudices about “must have mf everywhere” is a total poopoo.

And to be totally honest – yes I have a Luck sigil on my scepter. Yes I have the backpiece and Karka shell with mf on them. And yeah I use also food and banners. But it doesnt hurt anyone in the dungeon.

So uh… No hatin’, okay? But let’s pull our magic find socks on just for Orr ^^

kokiman.2364:

Rifter.6591:

MF doesnt effect whole party in this game? seriously?

Are you guys for real??

I know im new but wow that is some epic design fail on so many levels…….

No it is not.

Once again the problem lies in the community and not in the game design, those people who are “bad” at the game and still insist on using MF Gear even though they get grounded by every mob in a dungeon are just flat out stupid and stubborn and don’t want to contribute anything to the group. Those are the people who play warrior with GS and Rifle and 5 Signets in a GROUP!

No its bad game design, if you apply magic find to the party like most games do then i dont care if you are a MF leech that cant play and the OP’s issue would be a total non-issue because we are seeing the rewards from the MF so carrying you thorugh the dungeon would be worth it for the rest of the party.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

kokiman.2364:

those people who are “bad” at the game and still insist on using MF Gear even though they get grounded by every mob in a dungeon are just flat out stupid and stubborn and don’t want to contribute anything to the group. Those are the people who play warrior with GS and Rifle and 5 Signets in a GROUP!

No, those are Berserker Warriors and probably deal more damage than the other 4 party members combined, given that there aren’t any other Warriors in the party.

Yes, some people suck at it and should play a support Guardian instead, but stop generalizing because there’s a lot of people who are good at it and don’t die more than average.

Berserker Warriors use 5 Signets? Last time I checked the “optimal” build was using shouts, the warbanner or signet of rage.

I’ll admit that this is the only game that I have played that requires me to gear a trait like MF to get good loot (and obsessively so.) I never used gear with it until last night. I met a fellow that farmed 200 Ectos in a week around Orr and he told me how to gear MF and use food. I had only personally ever gotten three yellow drops while leveling to 80. Last night after gearing I got five in just a couple of hours. As a crafter I need the ectos and had no real idea of how to get them until now. Dungeons weren’t worth the hassle and yellows never seemed to drop there. I am the sort that likes roaming open world events instead anyway.

But I will keep a second suit of armor for group endeavors. Do I like having to gear for it? Not really. It doesn’t make sense to me as a game mechanic outside of something to encourage people to buy gems and trade them for coin rather than grind it out. I mean who “wants” to gear for decent loot rather than to fight and kill boss?

Something to consider…

Firstly, the average not so educated about the game player when they get to 80 will likely get magic find gear so they can get much better drops, their mates are all telling them that magic find improves their chances of good drops and good drops mean more money. This is what I did with my first 2 characters. Until I worked out that magic find was a worthless piece of kitten furballs.

I then have spent alot of time trying to fit out other characters in anything other than magic find, and even got a second set of gear for my main character. I now run my main with the second set of gear for dungeons and only use magic find if I am farming for fine crafting materials (because for me that all it improves the drop of).

Now in saying that I did run some dungeon early on when I still only had the magic find set, and found that if someone takes charge and directs everyone as to what to do then the dungeon run goes well. Its when you get people expecting that everyone knows what to do and does not say a word that I found the dungeon runs went bad, even in the ones I knew, because there was no communication.

These days my main has sacrificed DPS to offer bonuses to the group and sometimes I get the “why do you use that build, you have less DPS” to which I reply “because I offer group bonuses”.

Fix your RNG so we don’t need Magic Find, please.

If I need to stack Magic Find in my gear in order to improve my already abysmal chances of getting something useful, then something is really wrong. Just fix the loot tables.

Nokaru.7831:

The difference between Magic Find and Berserker’s can be between 35-40% damage. This is because anyone who is a MF Leech will generally not wear Exotic quality MF gear (usually Masterwork; sometimes Rare), and the lack of Critical Damage is a massive damage loss for most Professions. This player is, on average, making the group kill things 15% slower, so that they can get 60% more drops.

Read “Confessions of a Magic Find Leech”: for more info.

Why does that link ask me to log in as if it’s GW2 site but is has the “account-dev.ncplatform.net” domain?

Trickstick.7523:

The simplest solution is usually the best: make other people’s character sheets viewable. This would fix the problem, without causing annoyance to people by removing a load of equipment. You don’t want MF in your party? Look at what they use and kick them.

An inspection feature has already been suggested.. I don’t want it. It’s nobody’s darn business what armor I am wearing. All it does is promote elitism.

Eladriel.7295:

Trickstick.7523:

The simplest solution is usually the best: make other people’s character sheets viewable. This would fix the problem, without causing annoyance to people by removing a load of equipment. You don’t want MF in your party? Look at what they use and kick them.

An inspection feature has already been suggested.. I don’t want it. It’s nobody’s darn business what armor I am wearing. All it does is promote elitism.

Whether inspect in general is a good idea, I would absolutely love to have a visible indicator of mf on other people. If people insist on gimping their parties for personal gain, fine, but at least let their victims know about it.

RoadKill.7459:

you can run any instance in gw2 with all 5 players in mf gear no problem.

I’m waiting for you video of killing simin.

They could have us kill Veterans and Champions to get a stacking Magic Find buff. If we go to a downed state we lose the stack. That’ll be a good way to get people out into the world.

The difference in damage and health with someone using the magic find stat and not is miniscule at best. It has no impact on anything as we’re talking seconds, not minutes it will add to a fight.

The issue is the terrible players involved and their terrible specs and not the gear they’re using.

I think magic find should go, not on the basis that it’s a selfish stat.
But because in its entirety, it’s useless.

Sure you have have a few times more to earn some better loot, but you’ll be quickly neglected by the effects of Diminishing Returns after a few drops.

And a chance 1/5000 rather than 1/10000 isn’t really all that worthwhile of an investment.

It’s also worth noting that I’m running partial MF gear, and I find myself being one of the top contributors to group activities most of the time. Gear doesn’t matter, skill does.

Personally I say keep magic find on food and banners. About the only use for food buffs for a majority of people it seems.

Though I can’t say I’ve experienced a lot of “bad” players because they stack magic find gear. But I do think its a little silly to be a stat combination for gear, but thats just my opinion.

Though I’m not a huge fan of magic find either way. So I just don’t use it outside of food.

Deroy.2457:

I think magic find should go, not on the basis that it’s a selfish stat.
But because in its entirety, it’s useless.

Sure you have have a few times more to earn some better loot, but you’ll be quickly neglected by the effects of Diminishing Returns after a few drops.

And a chance 1/5000 rather than 1/10000 isn’t really all that worthwhile of an investment.

1. Going with your example, 1/5000 compared to 1/10000 would be extremely worthwhile, given enough trials. It’s not like you only kill 1 mob per hour.
2. Mf does not interact with dr.
3. Mf is indeed crap because it is a selfish stat, and that alone would justify removing it, if the devs were actually consistent with the rest of the game

Magic Find is fine. Players are the ones to blame!

I have a magic find set, but for the purposes of instances i don’t wear it, as i have one fifth of the responsibilities within the group. Also, if i want a non-MF user i specifically say that when on the recruiting!

Also even if MF increases the chances from 1 : 2 million to 1 : 1 million, it’s still worth for those who want to use them.

So in the end your opinion about Magic Find is biased due to some bad experiences that you may had with bad players in dungeons!