Guild Wars 2

So I was going to write this thread about how pointless a guild 10% MF banner is. When I say pointless, that is what I mean. In what way does it change the likelihood of any drops? 10%? 10 percent of what? I have 150% on my character and my drops are hardly noticeably different.But instead I will ask you.
If you have 100% magic find boost on your character, do you assume that means you are 100% more likely to get an increase from blue to green, or green to rare as a drop?

If the maximum magic find bonus/boost you can get is 300%,… I think the decimal point is in the wrong place.

Think about a consumable that gives a mf buff, 30% is cheap, But the best my guild can get me is 5-10%??

I know you like the vagueness of it, but to me it just represents a flaw in the game which the developers ignore. Remove the percentage sign, and I will be happy, or have the percentage represent a logical increase in drops.

I am unsure if I understand this post, was going to say. Maximum one can reach mf is 565% excluding the additional mf one has from ap.

I cannot comment on how much difference 10% makes. I can comment on how much 562% can make vs. 100% 200% ect. I noticed a considerable difference the times I was able to maintain that percentage. I kept track for some time. I did the majority of testing with 357% vs 507% the calculations which have already been posted by others as to what is expected are fairly accurate. Even considering rng.

It is possible I’m completely missing the point, on several meds fighting the flu off.

10% of the original chance, BTW. Let’s say a particular item has a 1% chance of dropping, having 100% magic find means that your chance to get that item is increased by 100% of the original chace, in this case, 1%, meaning the chance of getting that item is now 2%.

Since lots of items have very low chance as it is (way less than 1%), having even 150% magic find won’t be noticeable unless you actually track your drops from before and then after you got it for a while, much less considering that your got it gradually (if you went from 0 to 150% suddenly, you’d probably notice it), and there’s no way to see what drops you’d get without it since it’s account bound (unlike what hapened before where you could go from one char with high magic find to another with none).

That said, I do agree that the MF from guild banners could use a boost, the numbers made sense when magic find wasn’t as prevalent as today, and you had to use specific armor and boosts to increase it, while today even the most casual players that have been playing since the new MF system was introduced are probably at least closing in to 100%.

BTW, I’d remove the references to previous deleted post, one of the forum rules says that you’re not supposed to “post about locked, deleted, or otherwise moderated threads or posts” ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/rules ), might result in this one being locked and/or deleted because of it.

When I use a 10% MF banner, my MF% goes from 95% to 105%. I’d say it’s a flat increase.

Guhracie.3419:

When I use a 10% MF banner, my MF% goes from 95% to 105%. I’d say it’s a flat increase.

It’s a flat increase in your Magic Find. But like danielrjones said the increase in drop rates is as a percentage of the items original drop rate.

Otherwise anything over 100% Magic Find would be useless because everything would be a guaranteed drop. (Which is impossible, since there’s multiple qualifying items in every enemies loot table and you only get one.)

This is why the change is very hard to notice unless you actually record all your drops or get a sudden very large boost. For example a lot of people noticed the effect during the Secrets of Southsun event when everyone got a 200% boost to Magic Find.

If you’re going off Magic Find accumulated from Essence of Luck then you have to look over a long time period to see a change because you’ll be increasing it gradually. (Unless you opted to grind luck to increase it much more quickly.)

I can only attest to my experience with magic find. I am sure there are tens of thousand of people who have maxed mf and could weigh in on the subject.

For the longest time I didn’t bother with maxing magic find. Reading various post regarding how useless it was and thought with this many people saying so many negative things about it. Made me believe there was truth in it. Pretty much sold every drop. Got really bored one day thought it was something I would work on. I went from 100k mf points to the 4.3 mil it takes in a fairly short amount of time.

Once I was finished I noticed a significant change in rares and exotic drops.
Hence I have been a huge supporter of those working to max mf.
Would I do the grueling task of maxing mf again. In a heartbeat I would. After realizing the difference. So when I see people making negative comments on mf. It causes me to pause. But that’s just me.

Even if the difference in drops is measurable, Anet is releasing more and more loot which is gated behind a specific drop type.
Magic find only affects the first drop type, not the item you get from the bag that dropped.
Every time they put a special item inside a bag, box, or some such container, they are removing magic find from the equation completely.

locoman.1974:

10% of the original chance, BTW. Let’s say a particular item has a 1% chance of dropping, having 100% magic find means that your chance to get that item is increased by 100% of the original chace, in this case, 1%, meaning the chance of getting that item is now 2%.

Since lots of items have very low chance as it is (way less than 1%), having even 150% magic find won’t be noticeable unless you actually track your drops from before and then after you got it for a while, much less considering that your got it gradually (if you went from 0 to 150% suddenly, you’d probably notice it), and there’s no way to see what drops you’d get without it since it’s account bound (unlike what hapened before where you could go from one char with high magic find to another with none).

That said, I do agree that the MF from guild banners could use a boost, the numbers made sense when magic find wasn’t as prevalent as today, and you had to use specific armor and boosts to increase it, while today even the most casual players that have been playing since the new MF system was introduced are probably at least closing in to 100%.

I follow your logic, and I understand, but there is still this nagging in the back of my mind that something is not quite kosher with magic find and how it is portrayed in our hero panel.

The biggest problem about magic find is Anet never officially mentioned how it genuinely works.
By the way if I’m wrong and they have in the meanwhile please post a link.

So basically what you have is some people that did a little math, made some assumptions and BAAM, that’s how MF “works”, and the community has been rolling with it as fact because some say, or the wiki says.

It adds up. If we had this attitude we wouldn’t be anywhere.

@Dean, I can’t say the numbers on wiki are solid or not, only thing I can say. I know how many rares and exotics I averaged weekly when I was running 100% mf. When I got to 300% that amount did in fact more than double.
Of course some days are better than others. More importantly I was lucky to get one exotic a week – 2 weeks. Now I feel unlucky if I get less than 5 week.
Bear in mind. I have done the exact same thing for many months when farming. I base these numbers on that as well. I would think differently if I had started new farms and or doing more meta events than usual.

Yeah think they need to buff MF% from potion,food and banners it just so minor from what you get from base value,having a boost should let you feel it!!!

danielrjones.8759:

@Dean, I can’t say the numbers on wiki are solid or not, only thing I can say. I know how many rares and exotics I averaged weekly when I was running 100% mf. When I got to 300% that amount did in fact more than double.

• Of course some days are better than others. More importantly I was lucky to get one exotic a week – 2 weeks*. Now I feel unlucky if I get less than 5 week.
  Bear in mind. I have done the exact same thing for many months when farming. I base these numbers on that as well. I would think differently if I had started new farms and or doing more meta events than usual.

This is one of the reasons I believe accounts are marked. 1 in 1-2 weeks prior to maxing mf. A lot of players find it lucky to get 1 every 5-6 weeks of 24hr continuous play…..aka….1 per 1k hrs of play. While there are players like yourself who are not in the same (nor have ever been) in the same situation.

Note…This is not saying anything about you in particular…it’s merely about the drop system as it relates to individual accounts

magic find only increase the chance for an item to drop.

for example , let say the chance for a Dusk to drop from a mob is 1%.

if your total magic find is 150%, the new chance for a Dusk to drop from the same mob is 1.5×1 = 1.5%

if your total magic find is 300%, the new chance for a Dusk to drop from the same mob is 3.0×1= 3%

yup small increase in total magic find is pretty insignificant but hey, every little thing counts when it comes to RNG….

Magic Find is a strange attribute that I’m pretty sure stems from Arenanet’s experience with GW1 PvE where they were perhaps surprised by players who entertained themselves by farming as much fake in-game currency as possible. I totally get why people go to extremes over money in the real world.. video games, not so much, but yet people are obsessed over it. I think MMOs have become less about the gaming experience and more about in-game status.

Even so, I’m fairly certain they don’t want to create a huge imbalance in rewards for players who haven’t had time to accumulate Magic Find and the players who’ve been farming 24/7 since day one. Hence Magic Find only has a nuance effect on the loot tables. It’s a good thing they removed it from equipment, it was hardly worth the trade-off. It’s also very similar to the lockpick retention rate in GW1 that increased with certain title tracks. They were difficult titles to max out and in the end the maximum retention rate did little to improve the quality of your loot.

Now that it’s tied to your account and all one needs to do is salvo items to obtain luck.. well I would just use and forget. Besides, something people forget is that the game is really about the game play and not your in-game status. Did you enjoy the gaming experience as a game player? Did you enjoy the journey and not the destination? etc.

azizul.8469:

magic find only increase the chance for an item to drop.

for example , let say the chance for a Dusk to drop from a mob is 1%.

if your total magic find is 150%, the new chance for a Dusk to drop from the same mob is 1.5×1 = 1.5%

if your total magic find is 300%, the new chance for a Dusk to drop from the same mob is 3.0×1= 3%

yup small increase in total magic find is pretty insignificant but hey, every little thing counts when it comes to RNG….

MF bonus is added to the chance, account MF starts at 0% and your formula would mean that you never get loot: x% x 0 = 0

100% bonus doubles the chance (1% becomes 2% etc), 200% triples and 300% quadruples the chance of a particular class of loot (rares vs. masterwork) if not the actual item (precursors are a subset of exotics, don’t know if MF affects which exotic you get or just the chance of getting an exotic of some sort instead of a rare).

Having high MF does not mean you’re suddenly drowning in rares and exotics, but it will have a difference over time. If they handed out exotics like beads at Mardi Gras then the economy would crash.

mooty.4560:

Even so, I’m fairly certain they don’t want to create a huge imbalance in rewards for players who haven’t had time to accumulate Magic Find and the players who’ve been farming 24/7 since day one.

Sorry, but no. This is just wrong.

tolunart.2095:

azizul.8469:

magic find only increase the chance for an item to drop.

for example , let say the chance for a Dusk to drop from a mob is 1%.

if your total magic find is 150%, the new chance for a Dusk to drop from the same mob is 1.5×1 = 1.5%

if your total magic find is 300%, the new chance for a Dusk to drop from the same mob is 3.0×1= 3%

yup small increase in total magic find is pretty insignificant but hey, every little thing counts when it comes to RNG….

MF bonus is added to the chance, account MF starts at 0% and your formula would mean that you never get loot: x% x 0 = 0

100% bonus doubles the chance (1% becomes 2% etc), 200% triples and 300% quadruples the chance of a particular class of loot (rares vs. masterwork) if not the actual item (precursors are a subset of exotics, don’t know if MF affects which exotic you get or just the chance of getting an exotic of some sort instead of a rare).

Having high MF does not mean you’re suddenly drowning in rares and exotics, but it will have a difference over time. If they handed out exotics like beads at Mardi Gras then the economy would crash.

i think you missed my word “total” there…..

of course, 50% MF bonus = 150% TOTAL MF…. 100% MF bonus= 200% TOTAL MF.. etc etc

I stand corrected… time to call it a night (yawn).

Dean Calaway.9718:

The biggest problem about magic find is Anet never officially mentioned how it genuinely works.
By the way if I’m wrong and they have in the meanwhile please post a link.

So basically what you have is some people that did a little math, made some assumptions and BAAM, that’s how MF “works”, and the community has been rolling with it as fact because some say, or the wiki says.

This. So many different explanations. I’d love it if we could get a nice little red post detailing how exactly MF works. At the very least I’d be able to tell if it’s actually worth going for full MF or should I just sell all my greens and blues.

CureForLiving.5360:

Dean Calaway.9718:

The biggest problem about magic find is Anet never officially mentioned how it genuinely works.
By the way if I’m wrong and they have in the meanwhile please post a link.

So basically what you have is some people that did a little math, made some assumptions and BAAM, that’s how MF “works”, and the community has been rolling with it as fact because some say, or the wiki says.

This. So many different explanations. I’d love it if we could get a nice little red post detailing how exactly MF works. At the very least I’d be able to tell if it’s actually worth going for full MF or should I just sell all my greens and blues.

actually it has been explained and it is widely known. The shadow of doubt cast around here is people not understanding randomness – man, I didn´t get a precursor yet again, Anet must be lying to us.

And it does exactly what the % implies – improving your chances by x % .., of what I leave up to your google skills.

It mostly boils down to RNG I think. Not sure if it is MF% at work or just changes in the loot tables, but I did notice a significant increase in Rare weapon and armour drops around the time that MF% became account bound. Exotic drops are about the same as when I started and I’ve only gotten one Ascended weapon chest so far.

MF is becoming less and less useful as time goes on. It is still very helpful for zerg and farm events, but most of the LS releases have switched to RNG chests as the medium for getting rare drops. Since chests are immune to MF it isn’t very helpful in most cases.

If you farm a lot though, it is great to have.

Well for me MF is more and more useful. I have way more rare and tier 6 than ever and i’m only at 161% MF.

@Essence Snow, I find it hard to believe Anet would actually pull a stunt to flag some accounts vs others. I have some suspicions about MF that I prefer not to post. Because it is merely speculation on my part.

That being said, oddly enough I have more luck on an alt account with the forge than I do with my main. Managed to get three pre cursors off that account and it has less than 300 hours on it. So anytime I throw rares in forge I will do so on that account. Of course a part of me feels like I’m just rubbing a bald head for luck before I go to bat. Which makes no sense, sadly I do it anyway.

Whereas your comment thinking my main account is luckier than most. I really don’t feel that. I farm far more than the average person.

I do believe there is more to mf than what we currently know. Yet again that’s just speculation on my part. I have no proof.

The primary issue I have with MF% is that it does not affect bags/boxes. It’s great when you kill something and a rare drops. Cool, MF works. But all those champ bags and event bags and LS bags….yea MF% does nothing when opening them. And 99% of good loot* I get is from opening bags, not random drops.

Disclaimer: The term “good loot” is used loosely

On a related note, look at the drops in my sig if you want proof that MF works. I spend lots of time farming, so I get a good sample size compared to people who strictly do WvW or spend their time in dungeons.

I don’t know, since I hit 150% or so MF, I’m getting substantially more rare drops, which means more globs.
The drop rates for exotics are still questionable, but then again, it’s still RNG, and as it was pointed out, if an item has a 1% drop chance, 300% MF increase that to 4%, as in 1% + 3*1%.

But if you are despised by the RNG gods, it doesn’t mean anything, that is very true. That’s the way of empirical probability for individuals.

the way magic find works isn’t for specific items, it is for a chance to access a higher loot table, which is different…in a more complex way than just adding 100% chance to a 1% chance of drop.

scroll down to the notes section at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_find

i think it works, just stingy

it is really simple:

- does it work – yes
- does it work as intended and stated – possibly to probably
- does it improve chances for good drops enough to make a player happy – probably no and exactly this is the reason for all those conspiracy and “thing is broken” threads about MF.

GW2 Magic Find system is very similar to Diablo 3 Magic Find system.

I’m sure that formulas for base drop rates differ from both titles, but the increase work pretty much the same.
If someone has played D3 with Magic Find set i.e. ~300% then he can tell the difference between 0 and 300% chance on Magic Find.
It also applies to GW2.
Such system is designed to farming – the more you farm the richer you get in less time.
You can make tests yourselves.
Get someone with less than 50% magic find farm a certain spot for an hour or two and then do it yourself with 100% or more magic find.
Then compare the loots.
I myself have 60% atm, and I see the difference when I had around 10% and how it is now.
I’m used very much to Magic Find, RNG systems, and I do feel sometimes even that silly 10% difference.

The relevant question imo is does mf improve the quality of drops or the quantity. Also, I do get it that if Dusk had 1% chance of dropping without any mf, with +100% it would be 2%, but what then happens to the chances of white items? Will they decrease (and by how much? Half of normal with +100%?) or will there just be more higher rarity loot. This is what I mean about the quantity – quality confusion.

What I noticed with my magic find is that whenever I did the Lions Arch event I would get basically all blues, unless I used buffs to get the MF up to around 100%. At that point whenever something dropped, it would usually be green, eventually I even got an exotic dropped in LA after killing a veteran (this happened after my MF got even higher) which I don’t think has happened yet from a mob drop for me since I hit 80.

Another thing to keep in mind about MF is that DR can pretty much nulify the effects of MF.

You could get 100% MF but if DR hits you end up with a system similar to -100% MF.

DR hits both the quantity and quality of your loot.

This is why I do not recommend people buying communal/MF boosters since they are worthless when you farm.

I suggest that if you have these stocked up to use them in the Crown Pavillion when it comes back, as the wide variety of mobs prevents DR (compared to Orr)