Guild Wars 2

With the upcoming tags changes that we’ve been hearing about, a lot of people have been decrying the apparent 300 gold cost for each color. Many are pointing out that the WvW people – the main crowd who would benefit from colors – are going to be struggling to afford these tags to properly utilize them.

On the other hand, it seems there is an issue with people abusing the existing commander tag as a mark of wealth and prestige. And although making the tags cost a lot means less potential for people abusing them in some way, it also hurts those who just want a tag to operate more effectively as a leader.

What I propose
Make commander tags extremely easy to obtain. They don’t have to actually cost nothing as the title says, but I propose giving them a barrier that is easily surmountable by even the poorest players.

Why?
If people are abusing tags as a prestige item, then making them cost nothing will mean that there’s nothing prestigious about them anymore.

This has two benefits:
1) Less reason for people to use commander tags for something other than the intended functionality.
2) Low barrier of access for players who want to use them for the intended purpose.

But what about trolls, etc.? Won’t everyone start wearing a tag?
The concern here is that if tags have no significant barrier to obtaining them, then everyone and their mother will put one up just for the heck of it.

However, I don’t think this would be a problem at all most of the time. If there is nothing prestigious about wearing a tag, then most people will have no motivation to wear one. Furthermore, we should have some faith that this community would be largely cooperative about delegating tag use to those who actually want to lead.

In fact, the only time I have run across a large number of people putting up tags to be obnoxious also included those people talking about how special and unique they are, so it was clearly driven by the “prestige” problem.

Thanks for reading. Add your thoughts. Please be constructive – let’s get this feature on the right track.

Edit: Here is the link to the article on the color tags for those who have not seen it – http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2djnv8/interview_with_devon_carver_commander_tag_will_be/

100 is very very easy now, 300 will be very very easy in the near future. Money (gold) in game is not the hardest thing to get your hands on.

First there should be option to untag some idiots specialy for www(but also pve voting to tag down and this person cant tag for next 10 min ) and reduce number of tags running on single map . Lets say they add 4 colors+different guild tags(visable only to guild mates+cmds taged up on border). And if there is blue cmd you cant tag as blue cmd . Lets be serious I have never seen event which requires more then 4 tags so even if they give us 5 it will be fine . PVE cmds are best one LOL it looks like map full of brainless farmers.

Can someone link me the full article on the commander tag changes since the Dev post isn’t out yet?

Yargesh.4965:

100 is very very easy now, 300 will be very very easy in the near future. Money (gold) in game is not the hardest thing to get your hands on.

The problem is, as some have explained in other threads, the people who do WvW most of the time are barely breaking even on coin with all of the consumables and siege stuff that they buy – not to mention the fact that they are the main crowd who was asking for the colors – so it is a losing situation for them.

The problem with a monetary barrier to something like this is that it attracts people to investing in the tag for the wrong reasons. I can make gold at a decent rate, but unless I was rich, I would not even consider dropping 100-300 gold on a tag. If I knew that I wanted to lead other players during most of my play time, that might justify it, but the truth is, you can lead people without a tag just fine (people have been doing it in games for years); it is a feature that eases keeping large groups on track, particularly without voice communication software (a convenience, essentially).

So as a convenience feature, I would expect it to be convenient for leaders to obtain. Otherwise, it doesn’t fulfill its purpose as a feature.

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

First there should be option to untag some idiots specialy for www(but also pve voting to tag down and this person cant tag for next 10 min ) and reduce number of tags running on single map . Lets say they add 4 colors+different guild tags(visable only to guild mates+cmds taged up on border). And if there is blue cmd you cant tag as blue cmd . Lets be serious I have never seen event which requires more then 4 tags so even if they give us 5 it will be fine . PVE cmds are best one LOL it looks like map full of brainless farmers.

Yeah, I see what you mean. The PvE “tag cause I can” crowd seems to be the worst of it. Perhaps some kind of feature to /activate and /deactivate tag display (on your screen) for a particular person would be enough as an anti-obnoxious-tag-use measure?

Serophous.9085:

Can someone link me the full article on the commander tag changes since the Dev post isn’t out yet?

Here you go: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2djnv8/interview_with_devon_carver_commander_tag_will_be/

I will edit it into the OP as well.

well… trolls will be there

for sure

even now there are trolls that find 100g are worth the investment…

and being able to flag or something so he cant tag for ~10mins got the same problem
trolls will troll commanders and.. well nothing good will come out of it xD

I will agree that 300 for each color is stupid (300 for blue chip, then 50 for different colors, sure).

But, I wouldn’t day this could be all there is (yet). Remember, that even at these con’s, revs have to be careful what they say. What we know now could always be just the tip of the iceberg.

Wait till the blog post, THEN be angry if that’s all there is ^^

Its an interesting idea but it may not work. It is a mark of prestige not just because of its price but because you don’t see it all that much compared to the number of players you do see at any given time.

For its prestige to dissapear, a lot of people will have to be running around with it for a while, which as you know will happen. This will cause chaos in WvW and events where a large number of players are gathered.

After all the confusion, a new problem may come up, the tag may turn into an aesthetic icon similar to a title. It will lose not only its prestige but its functionality because everyone likes adding visual effects to their toon.This is even more likey with the addition of new colours.

Older players may not cause this to happen but the newer ones because they won’t see the tag as we see it, something to help command large events. Newer players will likely start using it to lead parties, and if that happens Anet will not only have to charge for it but redesign it to rebrand it.

By PvE standards tags already cost nothing (very little). There is already little to no prestige to be found in them. Reducing the cost does not seem likely to provide an incentive for people who have had a tag turned on since a month after launch (when 100g might have been considered a significant amount of in game money) to turn them off now.

I see your point, you think if they’re cheap to nothing, it means noone will want it – remember though: it is a commander tag – people tend follow commanders, good commanders especially; making it 300 gold will help weed out the good, bad & ugly. I find it a good idea to increase the price- I mean if getting gold is so hard then it’s because that person doesn’t farm, dungeon or really do anything.

1. Make commander tags a one-time unlock.
   • This unlock would be separate between PvE and WvW.
   • This unlock would require basic experience in the content.
2. Add a guild upgrade for private tags only visible by guild members. Any guild members with permissions can set those tags, without having to unlock commander tags firts.
   • Players will be able to select what tags they want to see: Guild only, guild and friends, any.
3. Tags would be visible even if you are in another squad.
4. Tags would be visible across maps for players in the squad.
5. Add 6 colors, and at least 12 icons.
   • All colors and 6 icons would be free once unlocked
   • Additional icons would be fancier versions of the 6 free ones, with additional costs. Some with gem costs, some with coin costs.
6. Whenever you block a commander, their tag won’t show for you.
7. Add a limit of 6 public tags in PvE maps. Increase the limit to one per scoring location in WvW.
8. After the limit has reached, a player with less players blocking them will have priority to show their tag over someone else.

There. One character trolls with the tag? People will block them to hide the tag. Want to see where the commander goes? You can’t block them, so they’ll get priority over the troll. Want to see just your guild’s tag only? Go to the party panel and select the setting.

The block system would naturally make sure that the most liked commanders are the ones with the highest priority when it comes to show the tag. Beyond that, they’ll have to reason with each other if they want to show more tags.

If Tags are meant as a gold sink make them a gold sink. There is no cost for Tags, there is no cost to use a tag in WvW, there is a cast of X gold per hour to use a Tag in PvE. Maybe there could be a BoH per hour cost in WvW.

I kind of like the ideal of uping the cost i am not sure how else you can keep the numbers of tags low. My though is that if your trying to fund your own tag you will have a harder time then say if you have a guild helping you get it. What this can do is that you will have commanders with these tags that have been backed by wvw guilds (thinking that these commander are more able and willing to play wvw for there world and or there guild).

Commander tags really shouldn’t be something purchased with gold. I don’t claim to have the best solution, but I do feel it should be something you get nominated or voted for. One possibility is that “commander” isn’t something you buy, but rather anyone could have the ability to host a squad. If you have a reputation as a solid leader, people will join your squad. Then (and only then) as enough people join your squad you have the ability to display the commander tag on the map. That way bad leaders or griefers couldn’t fill the map with useless commander tags because no one would have joined their squad.

Another option if people don’t like joining squads is simply to have an up-vote and down-vote system. If you see someone exhibiting good leadership on the map, toss them an up-vote. After enough up-votes, someone earns the ability to display a commander tag.

Commander tags should have never been able to be had with gold it should have been got with XP a large amount of XP. Anybody with a credit card can buy a commander tag wether they have the ability to command or not a commander tag needed to be something earned not bought also there needed to be a series of events that kind of trained you to use the commander tag. As for making it easy to get that is not the answer either then everyone would have one and maps would be over run with them and that would defeat the purpose

Yargesh.4965:

100 is very very easy now, 300 will be very very easy in the near future. Money (gold) in game is not the hardest thing to get your hands on.

I wish 100g was easy. I still have the hardest of times earning any sort of income in this game.

On topic though, I don’t think Commander Tags should just be given out, but I don’t think they should cost gold either. But there isn’t really any effective system for obtaining them anyways. I’d love a commander tag, I feel I’d be a decent commander when all the big commanders are away, or even just a PvE commander. But 100g? I’ll never in the near or far future want to drop 100g on it. Been playing since 2012 December, and the most gold I’ve gotten is 168g. ~Shakes fist at my inability to succeed financially in MMO games.~

I like Commander tags becoming account bound. I’m actually going to get one now for the rare occasion when I need to help direct people on the map. I do agree that 300g per colour seems a bit steep though.

People who pay 300g for a base Commander tag should also be given the choice to pick which colour they want their tag to be. Seems like a fair trade-off for those who got their tag much more cheaply.

Comander tags should have limitations. Sometimes people whit them just keep on doing random stuff. Making them free would make things even worser.

Good thoughts so far guys.

It seems the main point of contention here is that people believe “no prestige” will not dissuade folks whose only intention is to troll or use the tag as a cosmetic piece.

I think if that part is handled, then there is no major reason remaining for them to be costly.

I like the ideas you have, Mithran, though I’m afraid there is too much to it, which means the development time would be difficult for them to justify. Is there a way we can simplify some of those ideas? Perhaps this alone would be enough to address the troll problem:

Whenever you block a commander, their tag won’t show for you.
Add a limit of 6 public tags in PvE maps. Increase the limit to one per scoring location in WvW.
After the limit has reached, a player with less players blocking them will have priority to show their tag over someone else.

Or at least, is a good premise for it. But I’m also not sure that restricting people is the right way to go about it; I think that mainly the feature could use a more overt indication of its functionality.

Perhaps some sort of cost for using it that would not hurt an actual commander, but would discourage random people from popping it. The fundamental problem with the one-time cost (something I believe we need to get rid of, regardless of what alternative we get) is that it only discourages poor/casual players from getting a tag – rich kittens will still be rich kittens.

For example (and this is just a brainstorming idea) a way to do it that could help guilds specifically is:
- Make tags cost a certain amount of Influence to activate for a duration (something like 24 hours, unless you choose to de-tag before then, in which case you’d get back a portion of your spent Influence).
- Along with this, you would need certain guild permissions to activate a tag on yourself or another member of your guild.