Guild Wars 2

Loyalty. We were told the rewards would NEVER be available by any other means, so is it unreasonable to EXPECT THAT?

It is not unreasonable, but not fool proof either.
Is someone who never spent a dime on the game after buying it, and started playing after HoT, and just got GW1 to get the fancy stuff for GW2 more loyal, than a player who started to play GW2 at the beginning and has spent maybe hudreds of dollars on costumes and stuff, but doesn’t want to try GW1?

You want feedback from a GW2 only player? Ok!

I knew about GW1. I wasn’t interested, despite a WoW friend pushing it. Probably because the videos at the time were low rez and it didn’t look terribly amazing to me. That same friend gushed about GW2 once it was announced. I looked at videos of that, dev statements and interviews, and was very quickly hooked. GW2 was everything I wanted in an MMO, and then some. I couldn’t wait!

ANet announced that GW1 players would get these rewards. I considered it and said nope. At that time I was heartily sick of the WoW daily grind and looking forward to something that would free me from that and it was obvious the HoM rewards would take significant grinding in a game that still did not appeal to me.

A while later, deeply invested in GW2, I realized some of my guildies were spending a night a week questing and RPing in GW1. I did like the HoM skins. So I figured ok, I’ll give it a shot. I bought GW1 (all of it) and blindly followed my friends around blindly spamming mesmer spells without much of a clue what I was doing or having time to read the dialogues that might have explained it. It wasn’t fun, but I did see some of the lore and did get a few HoM points, enough that I now have basic heritage armor.

And then the prime mover of these GW1 nights had a baby and she hasn’t done much in either game since, and I felt no need to pursue more HoM points even though I’d have liked a few more skins.

Do I want the skins available via GW2 gameplay? HELL no. They are specific rewards to people who spent (or spend) the time in GW1, they are a thank you for doing that, for having been there in the early days, plus they are promised to stay that way. And they remain available even to brand new players of the franchise, as a bonus that didn’t need to be offered any more than the reserved GW1 names continue to be offered now to linked accounts (to be clear, they aren’t).

I had and have the same opportunity as anyone else to grind HoM, and imo that is the only way I should ever get those skins.

There you go, a non-GW1-vet who disagrees with the OP.

coso.9173:

It is not unreasonable, but not fool proof either.
Is someone who never spent a dime on the game after buying it, and started playing after HoT, and just got GW1 to get the fancy stuff for GW2 more loyal, than a player who started to play GW2 at the beginning and has spent maybe hudreds of dollars on costumes and stuff, but doesn’t want to try GW1?

The loyalty I am referring to is between Anet and players, and being told that the rewards would never be available by another means.

Not sure how that is not sinking in. They said “never” as in not available by any other means other than earning them like many players that wanted the skins have done. It is still available to do so, and it doesn’t look like that is changing.

If you want the skins then you have to do what every one else that has them has done. Not wanting to, or being to lazy to or whatever the case may be… that is on that person, and entirely their decision, and not Anet’s or the ones that do have the skins problem.

coso.9173:

It is not unreasonable, but not fool proof either.
Is someone who never spent a dime on the game after buying it, and started playing after HoT, and just got GW1 to get the fancy stuff for GW2 more loyal, than a player who started to play GW2 at the beginning and has spent maybe hudreds of dollars on costumes and stuff, but doesn’t want to try GW1?

If they’ve spent hundreds of dollars on GW2 costumes and want the reward skins from GW1, they can afford to buy GW1 and earn them. Loyalty isn’t all about money spent, but time invested as well. As for not being foolproof, that’s down to ANet. I don’t see why they would open up the rewards to the gemstore or whatever when they’re still making money on GW1 box sales almost 4 years after GW2’s release. They have no reason to do so, therefore no one with the rewards expects them to.

Quite honestly, the rewards aren’t as great as you’re trying to make them out to be; I was frankly underwhelmed once I saw some of the skins in game as opposed to what I thought they’d be like, but that’s life. They’re fine placeholder skins on new characters but it’s not like transmutation charges are hard to come by in any case. I didn’t bust my butt per se for them, simply integrated HoM points into GW1 gameplay (gave me something to do when the exodus at GW2’s launch happened). The only real advantage is that they can be applied free of charge as many times as you like, same as Zenith/Radiant/Hellfire skins. They’re mostly quite bland skins that I doubt most people would even spend gems on, even buying with gold > gems. They’re simply there as a ‘thank you for playing over the years, here’s a little token of gratitude’. The fact you see them as something more and begrudge people of that speaks volumes. As we’ve been told that GW1 won’t shut down as long as GW2 is alive, there’s always the chance to save up to buy GW1 if you can’t afford it outright. Skip the daily takeaway coffee for a month and you’ve got the cash right there. If you don’t want to put in the effort however, then you don’t want the rewards that badly after all.

I don’t want the skins. They’re n ot my cup of tea to be honest. and I barely have enough time to play GW2 to start another game now.
I’m just curious why people even care. It’s not the first time a gaming company backtracks on something they said before.

coso.9173:

So if people don’t care about showing off the skins or whatever they have, and think that othrs having the items doesn’t devaluate their own items or how they earned them, then why they care at all? How does it hurt you that others can get the items for less work/money?

The point is that they were designed to be exclusive to those who earned them in GW1. How does it help the community as a whole to make them available to those who choose not to play GW1?

Using the logic, “how does it hurt veterans if new players can get items for less work/money”, why shouldn’t the cost of everything be reduced? Give twice as many PvP potions for dailies and require half as many to finish a reward track. Reduce the token cost of every item in the game. Reduce the XP cost for masteries and give new player 50 free mastery points.

Part of the reason is that we as humans attach value in part to how difficult it is to acquire stuff — if it’s too easy, we don’t value it as much. Sure, that should not matter, but it does.

Another part is that the success of MMOs depends a lot on player loyalty — if folks stop playing, there’s no “massive” in the MMO and the game suffers. If the game company does too many things that make veterans feel under appreciated, the game suffers. (And we’ve seen that with something as simple as the cancellation of 12 legendaries, which affects a relatively narrow fraction of the community, but one that happens to include intensely loyal players.) ANet’s blown a lot of social capital on some questionable decisions — they can’t afford to arbitrarily change too many things too often.

Finally, why should ANet make these skins available to folks that don’t play GW1? There are so many skins available in the game — how is anyone hurt that a few aren’t as easily available?

tl;dr we all want more stuff, but that’s not a good enough reason to change how loyalty rewards work.

coso.9173:

I don’t want the skins. They’re n ot my cup of tea to be honest. and I barely have enough time to play GW2 to start another game now.
I’m just curious why people even care. It’s not the first time a gaming company backtracks on something they said before.

I care because I like GW2. Hits to credibility can damage peoples’ faith in a gaming company. Anet has already taken some such hits. It does not need more.

Also, there does not seem to be that much of a payoff for ANet on this issue. I might feel differently if there were huge numbers of players who might pay Anet a boat-load of cash to get access to these skins. However, I very much doubt that to be the case.

First to OP. You still have access to these skins.

You just need to do what everyone else did and earn it.

coso.9173:

The feeling I will never understand is: " I earned this, so I dont want others to have it with less work". I couldnt care less if others have it, it is not going to take away what I did to earn it. They are taking nothing away from me. I dont need to go around showing off what I got. Im just happy I got it.
I remember the core game went free after a few months after I got it, and I couldnt understand why were people angry at it. I kniw we paid for it, so what? Things change and they will keep on chaning all the time.
That is the elitist way of thinking Im refering to.

So imagine tomorrow you want a legendary. Let’s say Astralaria or Nevermore. You spend litterally months grinding so you can afford the comps. You finally have your weapon, you are so happy. The next day, Anet announces that you can now have the same legendary through a simple 10mins quest and a few golds. How would you feel?

And yes, that would totally remove what you’ve done to obtain it. The feeling of satisfaction, hell joy and happiness, to have the reward that you were aiming for, when you knew you’d kitten blood to have it, but you still made it. That feeling would be removed, you’d feel fooled instead. And you’d be a fool.

The feeling I never understand is: “why should I bother earning my things like everyone else and cannot get them effortlessly?”
People who don’t get the feeling of achievement are just lazy slackers, and laziness is not rewarded in real life, nor should it be in a game.

It is like everything else in gw2: you want something? Come and get it! Nothing prevents you from doing it but yourself! Why HoM would be different from everything else in that regard? Is there any good reason? Can someone tell me? You don’t want to spend €15? So it comes down to that, it’s the only argument? Are you kidding me? We have been ranting over 3 pages because you don’t want to spend €15?

No, others getting it easier doesn’t remove the feeling of satisfaction, it is not retroactive, I know what I had to endure to get it. I know I earned it my way, the hard way. others getting it easier don’t take away that from me at all. I don’t get that line of thinking.
There are thousands of things that are made easier with time, in GW2, in games, in life. ALL the time. If I got upset each time it happened, I would go crazy.

Then I am afraid we are too different to understand each other. Even though I would bet a lot that you are in fact not that different, and you’d feel the foolness if the same happened to you, but for the sake of keeping a good atmosphere, I will assume that you tell the truth. You therefore become the 1%.

coso.9173:

No, others getting it easier doesn’t remove the feeling of satisfaction, it is not retroactive, I know what I had to endure to get it. I know I earned it my way, the hard way. others getting it easier don’t take away that from me at all. I don’t get that line of thinking.
There are thousands of things that are made easier with time, in GW2, in games, in life. ALL the time. If I got upset each time it happened, I would go crazy.

You still haven’t explained why it’s good for the community to take a GW1 loyalty reward and turn it into something else. You keep saying “it won’t hurt anyone” (although some disagree) and you’ve described how those who aren’t willing to play GW1 would benefit; you haven’t explained why it’s better for GW2 to do it.

The argument, “because it wouldn’t hurt anyone” isn’t sufficient reason for ANet to go out of its way to change things, and risk damaging their reputation. “Because a bunch of us don’t want to do what was originally required” isn’t a good enough reason either — the game is full of things that could be made easier; why is this one special?

The point is: you haven’t convinced many of your fellow veterans that this is good for the game. What makes you think that this will change ANet’s mind?

coso.9173:

No, others getting it easier doesn’t remove the feeling of satisfaction, it is not retroactive, I know what I had to endure to get it. I know I earned it my way, the hard way. others getting it easier don’t take away that from me at all. I don’t get that line of thinking.
There are thousands of things that are made easier with time, in GW2, in games, in life. ALL the time. If I got upset each time it happened, I would go crazy.

While I understand the sentiment, unfortunately that is not how human psychology works. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effort_justification)

So while you personally might not be affected by this, or might not notice how this affects you which is more likely, a great amount of individuals would.

One could argue that the amount of negatively affected players (the ones who oppose the change) would be smaller than the amount of positively affected players (the ones who agree with the change) might be equal and the crowd who doesn’t care is big enough as to not make a big dent satisfaction wise.

The one thing that in any case would suffer is Arenanets credibility. It’s a lose-lose for them in this case.

coso.9173:

I don’t want the skins. They’re n ot my cup of tea to be honest. and I barely have enough time to play GW2 to start another game now.
I’m just curious why people even care. It’s not the first time a gaming company backtracks on something they said before.

So your expectations are low enough that you don’t care any more if a company backtracks on their word, great. That is still no proper argument or justification why it should be okay in the first place.

I could see an argument made IF the rewards were unobtainable, but even then it would cause serious trust/respect issues especially from a loyal crowd of players. As is, the rewards still are available and even in the same way as before.

coso.9173:

No, others getting it easier doesn’t remove the feeling of satisfaction, it is not retroactive, I know what I had to endure to get it. I know I earned it my way, the hard way. others getting it easier don’t take away that from me at all. I don’t get that line of thinking.
There are thousands of things that are made easier with time, in GW2, in games, in life. ALL the time. If I got upset each time it happened, I would go crazy.

Huh. Well earlier you said

coso.9173:

I don’t want the skins. They’re n ot my cup of tea to be honest. and I barely have enough time to play GW2 to start another game now.

and you seem quite upset judging by your responses in this thread. Responses to a topic you admitted you don’t even care about. I’d say that you’d be better off not worrying about things that don’t concern you in any way as that’s more likely to drive you crazy. Just a thought.

Also, no one’s seriously going to lose sleep over this topic (interesting to see that you think that people would have such severe reactions), even if ANet did decide to crap on the loyalty of thousands of players over the last 10+ years. We’d just be very disappointed and as we all know, that’s worse than people being angry at you

I would have some sympathy for this thread if it weren’t possible to get the rewards anymore, but since GW1 is still running, does have plenty of people playing it – including guilds and people who will help you; I have to disagree.

I never played GW1, my husband did and because of him I bought GW2, he played GW1 for years but didnt really tick a lot of the HoM boxes and so I think I only got up to around the 5th tier.

I spend a lot of time being a cry baby because I wanted some of the skins (specifically the dwayna gloves), and one day decided to do something about it – I bought the core game and all the expansions – it took me a few weeks, some kind donations from other players who had duplicate minis etc. but I now have all the items unlocked and I enjoyed myself while doing it – meeting all the legends like Jora was amazing and it made me appreciate more of GW2.

They will never make these items available by any other means, so I would suggest players who want them approach with some positively and earn them in the game that founded the game they enjoy so much.

coso.9173:

I don’t want the skins.

Oh really?….

coso.9173:

I would love to be able to get all the shinies of a game by playing that game and not another one. So I understand the OP in that.

coso.9173:

the elitist concept is “if you want this, then spend money”
I’m a firm believer anything in GW2 should be obtainable by playing the game, and not by spending more money.
If someone has to actually buy GW1 then he is forced to spend money, that is why I am against it.
Like I said I understandthje feeling, but it is still elitism. If I buy a pair of expensive jeans, and the next week they’re on sale, am I going to be mad at the people who got them for less money/effort that I did? I don’t think so. Specially if they go on sale years after I got them in the first place.

That is not the definition of elitist. The dictionary definition and one that most people understand as elitist is: a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society”

GW1 players with the HoM rewards do not feel that they are any of those things. The do however feel they actually earned the rewards and are grateful that ANet is keeping their promise to make them exclusive to them. I think that is the problem, you keep mistaking “elitist” for “exclusive”.

And your analogy is flawed. It isn’t a spending money thing. It is a pride in achievement thing. If you retire after 40 years with a company and they give you a Rolex watch as a reward for loyalty and service and announce with your retirement gift that they are giving everyone in the company a Rolex right now because they don’t want them to feel left out because you got one, how would you feel? Your loyalty and devotion gift wouldn’t mean much would it? Heck even Timmy the kid they hired yesterday to clean bathrooms twice a week got one. Really makes your retirement reward meaningful doesn’t it?

coso.9173:

It is not unreasonable, but not fool proof either.
Is someone who never spent a dime on the game after buying it, and started playing after HoT, and just got GW1 to get the fancy stuff for GW2 more loyal, than a player who started to play GW2 at the beginning and has spent maybe hudreds of dollars on costumes and stuff, but doesn’t want to try GW1?

No it doesn’t make them more loyal, but it does make them people who follow the rules of the game to get what they want. Those people who spent all that money and then think they are entitled to other things without doing the work or want some easier way to get it are egotistically and wrongfully entitled, not loyal.

coso.9173:

I’m just curious why people even care. It’s not the first time a gaming company backtracks on something they said before.

So that makes it right?!?!?! Seriously? We should just let companies do this to us? SMDH

coso.9173:

No, others getting it easier doesn’t remove the feeling of satisfaction, it is not retroactive, I know what I had to endure to get it. I know I earned it my way, the hard way. others getting it easier don’t take away that from me at all. I don’t get that line of thinking.
There are thousands of things that are made easier with time, in GW2, in games, in life. ALL the time. If I got upset each time it happened, I would go crazy.

Well, maybe in this you are a bit self-actualized. However, many people rightfully don’t feel as you do. When this happens to them they feel invalidated. Their self-worth is stomped on. How do you not get that?

I think it comes down to you not caring about how others feel as long as you get what you want.

“I just came to have fun and I’m feeling so attacked right now…” XD
ok guys, it’s just my own point of view you do’t have to agree with it.
It’s just that the attitude of wanting to stay exclusive bothers me in general. The same thing happened in the topic about the Tribal set and other things in the past too.
The attitude of “I don’t want people to get it, or get it with less effort than me, because then I’m less special”.

coso.9173:

“I just came to have fun and I’m feeling so attacked right now…” XD
ok guys, it’s just my own point of view you do’t have to agree with it.
It’s just that the attitude of wanting to stay exclusive bothers me in general. The same thing happened in the topic about the Tribal set and other things in the past too.
The attitude of “I don’t want people to get it, or get it with less effort than me, because then I’m less special”.

The tribal set isn’t exactly the same because it was impossible to get at all. In that case the people saying don’t bring it back were definitely being exclusive.

The people in this thread aren’t being exclusive. They’re saying it’s available and all you need to do to get it is to do the content that provides it.

coso.9173:

“I just came to have fun and I’m feeling so attacked right now…” XD
ok guys, it’s just my own point of view you do’t have to agree with it.
It’s just that the attitude of wanting to stay exclusive bothers me in general. The same thing happened in the topic about the Tribal set and other things in the past too.
The attitude of “I don’t want people to get it, or get it with less effort than me, because then I’m less special”.

We wouldn’t feel less special, we would feel betrayed if just anyone got it after being promised that only those that did the content would get it. It’s not a special snowflake thing. I guess there is no way of helping you understand.

I don’t think it is just your opinion here. I believe it is a sense of self-entitlement.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

coso.9173:

“I just came to have fun and I’m feeling so attacked right now…” XD
ok guys, it’s just my own point of view you do’t have to agree with it.
It’s just that the attitude of wanting to stay exclusive bothers me in general. The same thing happened in the topic about the Tribal set and other things in the past too.
The attitude of “I don’t want people to get it, or get it with less effort than me, because then I’m less special”.

The tribal set isn’t exactly the same because it was impossible to get at all. In that case the people saying don’t bring it back were definitely being exclusive.

The people in this thread aren’t being exclusive. They’re saying it’s available and all you need to do to get it is to do the content that provides it.

Yea, as I recall, they just wanted the skin to return. Even if it was put on the PvP reward track since it was originally a PvP skin.

The same attitude happened when they made the base game free, when HoT was released, countless topics talking about how they felt betrayed by Anet because they paid for it, and now people would get it for free. Like if that made the years they played before totally worthless.

Like I said it’s an ongoing attitude, I just cited the tribal as another example. I personally don’t feel cheated by changes in MMOs, specially considering how much they actually change.

Now, for the last time, I UNDERSTAND that some people prefer the shinies t stay for those who played GW1 only. I personally prefer not to be asked to play another game to get things in a game I actually play, and I feel like things change all the time, so even if they said they would keep them GW1 exclusive, it nwouldn’t shock or disappoint me if they changed it.

That is all, you don’t have to agree with me.

I don’t even have any of the Hall of Monument skins or items, and I probably never will, but I don’t think it’s right to make it easier to obtain. These items are COMPLETELY OPTIONAL
You don’t NEED an armor or weapon skin. When you see someone wearing them, you know exactly how and where they got it from. You know the work they put in.
Theres hundreds of other skins to choose from, and they get only a handful of skins, let them have it. They deserve it.

coso.9173:

The same attitude happened when they made the base game free, when HoT was released, countless topics talking about how they felt betrayed by Anet because they paid for it, and now people would get it for free. Like if that made the years they played before totally worthless.

Like I said it’s an ongoing attitude, I just cited the tribal as another example. I personally don’t feel cheated by changes in MMOs, specially considering how much they actually change.

Now, for the last time, I UNDERSTAND that some people prefer the shinies t stay for those who played GW1 only. I personally prefer not to be asked to play another game to get things in a game I actually play, and I feel like things change all the time, so even if they said they would keep them GW1 exclusive, it nwouldn’t shock or disappoint me if they changed it.

That is all, you don’t have to agree with me.

But you don’t understand that the method of getting them is by playing GW1. They are a thank you for playing GW1. Not a thank you for playing GW2. The Tha k you for playing GW2 was the Royal Guard outfit. You could only have it if you played GW2 before it was added. Anyone after that dose not get it. That too was a loyalty thing. You seem to not understand this.