Guild Wars 2

This is really more of a feedback and question as to WHY map exploration is tied into W vs W. Maybe this is something I should have looked into earlier but I really don’t consider exploration P vs P. I absolutely hate that genre of gaming, HATE it, not dislike but hate the stuff. I’m honestly going to have to sit through endless battles I won’t enjoy just to get the map completed ? There isn’t anything strictly for P vs E is there ? Why on earth would they combine W vs W with exploring. Quite honestly it should be split, all they accomplished with this is shrinking the world I want to game in and giving me one less goal as a P vs E player. W vs W will NEVER be fun and if they thought they would entice those of us who liked to explore and map areas into doing this, it isn’t working for me.

I’m not sure even sitting at 91% that I want to endure the W vs W areas to complete this on my character. What an epic waste of time this has been leading up to this to only find out I must also be a P vs P player to be considered an explorer.

I can only asume it’s to encourage people to try out the free server transfers because other servers are camping them on the one you are on now. Sneaky anet, very sneaky… tipshat

Seriously though, I would say because the achievement if for exploring the world of guildwars and the pvp areas happen to reside within said world.

Actually, it’s mostly possible to get them if you’re patient since the colors usually cycle through. Stonemist Castle might be a hard road though.

Also, bear in mind, PvP and WvWvW are two different sections of this game The PvP area (Heart of the Mists) has nothing to do with world completion, if I recall.

You can 100% eternal battlegrounds, within 2 hours without engaging in pvp if your slick. Or at the very worst you might die a couple times, but still nothing to really complain about. It’s do able.

The purpose of 100% completion including wvwvw is to get you to participate.

Participate!

Just transfer to the winning server and map whatever you can. Did that with eternal battle ground on tarnish coast last week.

Participate in something fun I’m all game, to force me into doing something I hate will never be enjoyable. I’m not even worried about it at this point anymore. The time and effort I spent attempting some of it this evening was just an epic waste of time I could have actually spent enjoying something else.

It is optional. You don’t HAVE to do it.

Just keep your eye on the battlegrounds. Wait till your server is stomping face and go grab the PoI’s and such.

It’s part of the game.

If it’s not fun to you, don’t do it.

If your world is not winning this week, you are most likely getting blown out and will drop back a few spots in the standings next week. So when you start dominating again the next week just enter WvW and get all that you need. It literally takes like 2.5 hours to complete all the maps, maybe 3-4 if your world is losing because you have to sneak around but its really not that big of a deal. Definitely much easier than any of the other maps in the game.

They want you to try pvp, you never know, might even like it.

It´s been a theme with gw, to mix pvp elements in the pve…or rather, seeing how gw was originaly ment to only have pvp, they added pve to teach people how to do pvp (some missions were basicly tutorials for pvp modes). I can see some of that influence having carried over to gw2.

I hate this aspect of the game as well. Never been a fan of PvP or MMOs with shared PvE and PvP talent trees. Absolutely hate how my class ends up getting nerfed through no fault of its own because of PvP. This is one problem that GW2 shares with WoW and has failed to solve. Having said that, thanks for the tips in this thread, will use them to try and get my 100% map completion. The biggest problem I can see now is how to get 100% map completion at Cursed Shore, cant do the skill point North of Graven Cay as no one does the chain quest to free the Cathedral of Silence, tried it once 2 weeks ago with another player but we ran out of time on the group event.

Never understood it myself, all it ever did was add to queue times for people who wanted to be there.

My biggest complaint about needing the WvW maps for 100% is that three of the four maps are identical (well, the skill point challenges are a little different). If all three borderlands counted as one map, you wouldn’t have to wait for your colors to switch, you could just work on the map from the three different sides.

WvW is classified officially by GW2 as PVE and NOT PVP. That should answer your query. Period.

As to why WvW is classified under PVE, I don’t know. Many players are equally confused.

Imagine this conversation in real life:

‘Hey, I’ve explored every country and continent on Earth’ says Guy 1

‘Err, you haven’t explored the North or South Poles…’ says Guy 2

‘Yeah but I hate the snow and cold, so it shouldn’t count as a continent’ says Guy 1

What you are actually complaining about is that you have to do something you don’t like, in order to get something you want. You for some reason feel like you are entitled to the achievement, without actually doing the achievement, because you don’t want to do it.

Well let me break the bad news to you kid, just because you don’t like PvP, doesn’t mean the battleground are suddenly not part of Tyria, in the same way that The North Pole doesn’t suddenly vanish from the face of the Earth because it’s too cold for you to explore.

If you want 100% map completion, you’re going to have to, you know, explore 100% of the map.

I know my post sounds snarky but it’s really that simple. I find your thread and attitude pathetic, it’s just my honest opinion.

Take care

Nah….. Romeo you’re post doesn’t sound snarky at all it sounds exactly like something I would expect from a P vs P player and is usually the biggest reason many players hate P vs P over P vs E. It’s not so much the difference in the two it’s the players were forced to endure and their attitudes. You can dress up P vs P all you want but the same jack wagons and idiots we avoid as P vs E players will always be the same types in those areas. I know it seems lost on you but it really is that simple. I find your response and attitude typical of those players but it only serves to prove my point, but that’s just my honest opinion.

The battle grounds is nothing any P vs E player is going to consider anything short of P vs P and has absolutely nothing to do with exploration. These are maps which are not even attached to the world. Can we access them through exploration in any area in the world ? Plains of Ashford, Orr, Kessex Hills ? The answer is no…. so again why is a section of the world separated in it’s own space ? Perhaps it’s something which needs to be separate. If they want to open it up and include it on exploration then let’s just allow people into it by walking into it. This should let everyone be happy. I can see it now, people screaming but nobody is helping build fortifications or attacking the enemy. They’re just wandering around exploring. That would really tick off the commanders and Hard Core P vs P players wouldn’t it ? Oh wait I forgot someone just explained to me that this was P vs E so again try and give me another failed explanation or example as to why it’s classified as such.

Even in GW I…….. Underworld / Fissure of Woe / Domain of Anguish were considered elite areas and had no impact on ones exploration or back then cartographer title. I can’t be the only one who thinks this is BULL and it isn’t because we don’t want to work at something, we want P vs E and P vs P to remain separate where it belongs. If these truly are P vs E areas then they should be accessible by simple exploration. Trying to combine the two things never works and eventually someone will get the point. Judging by some of the more helpful and posts kept on topic others are equally confused.

Romeo.4378:

Imagine this conversation in real life:

‘Hey, I’ve explored every country and continent on Earth’ says Guy 1

‘Err, you haven’t explored the North or South Poles…’ says Guy 2

‘Yeah but I hate the snow and cold, so it shouldn’t count as a continent’ says Guy 1

What you are actually complaining about is that you have to do something you don’t like, in order to get something you want. You for some reason feel like you are entitled to the achievement, without actually doing the achievement, because you don’t want to do it.

Well let me break the bad news to you kid, just because you don’t like PvP, doesn’t mean the battleground are suddenly not part of Tyria, in the same way that The North Pole doesn’t suddenly vanish from the face of the Earth because it’s too cold for you to explore.

If you want 100% map completion, you’re going to have to, you know, explore 100% of the map.

I know my post sounds snarky but it’s really that simple. I find your thread and attitude pathetic, it’s just my honest opinion.

Take care

Uhm yea, with the diffirence that the poles are on the earth, and the WvW areas are not.
Thus making your point completely invalid.

Rocksors.7830:

I can only asume it’s to encourage people to try out the free server transfers because other servers are camping them on the one you are on now. Sneaky anet, very sneaky… tipshat

Seriously though, I would say because the achievement if for exploring the world of guildwars and the pvp areas happen to reside within said world.

If we want to be technical, which world? The world of Tyria? If so, the borderlands are located in the Mists, which is decidedly not Tyria. The combined world of the entire game itself? If so, then there’s no reason for sPvP areas to be skipped.

No matter how you spin it, the answer is simply “because.” There’s no scientific reason.

Kerithlan.1659:

Rocksors.7830:

I can only asume it’s to encourage people to try out the free server transfers because other servers are camping them on the one you are on now. Sneaky anet, very sneaky… tipshat

Seriously though, I would say because the achievement if for exploring the world of guildwars and the pvp areas happen to reside within said world.

If we want to be technical, which world? The world of Tyria? If so, the borderlands are located in the Mists, which is decidedly not Tyria. The combined world of the entire game itself? If so, then there’s no reason for sPvP areas to be skipped.

No matter how you spin it, the answer is simply “because.” There’s no scientific reason.

Kinda true, but I’m not sure. Isn’t ‘the map’ just what the world Tyria is? Why’d you call it a “map completion title” otherwise?

You know, you don’t have to do it. It’s an achievement, not an entitlement.

For what it’s worth, I got wvw map completion on a server that was dominating the battle at the time, and suffered very little “pvpness” for it. (/wonders if pness is censored)

Because if you want map completion you need to complete ALL the maps.

As someone who hated the PvP based on my experience in earlier games, I can say that WvW isn’t that. There are teams, a logic to the map, and I just don’t see the random griefing that I associate with “PvP”.

Practically, completing the WvW zones is about the same difficulty completing cursed shore. Easier if you get lucky on your timing.

I actually completed a WvW map last night, picking up a skill point and five vistas. I only had 2 fights along the way because the map uncrowded. One I was outnumbered and ran away. (Have your escape-oriented skills ready when traveling solo.) The second ended up being a 1 on 1 duel in the middle of nowhere. I won, but it was close. Basically like a high-end veteran fight. Pretty sure we both had fun. :-)

If you like PvE, you may love WvW. It’s more similar than you might expect.

mulch.2586:

You know, you don’t have to do it. It’s an achievement, not an entitlement.

For what it’s worth, I got wvw map completion on a server that was dominating the battle at the time, and suffered very little “pvpness” for it. (/wonders if pness is censored)

Unless you want a legendary.

Getting any squishy class around solo to all the points is tough at best. WvWvW is horrid getting points unless your world is curbstomping the others. It will be weeks or months before I can complete it on my ele.

It is a good thing badge of honor is account bound instead of soulbound. That way I can jump on my theif and spam heartseeker against most than having to work for it on my elementalist.

WvW is PvE. You didn’t get the memo?

EgonVenkman.1907:

Getting any squishy class around solo to all the points is tough at best. WvWvW is horrid getting points unless your world is curbstomping the others. It will be weeks or months before I can complete it on my ele.

Open area points aren´t a problem, they can be soloed with any class, as easily as any of the pve ones.
Just keeping your eyes open and few mobility skills on bar gets you away from anything.

Keeps are the problem as you sometimes need to wait long periods before even having possibility of getting them, and that´s not an issue of profession(no profession can get in without siege). Frustrating when all you need is one vista from enemy borderlands garrison.

Best way would probably be to transfer to some server who got almost 100% of the map.
You can check here(http://mos.millenium.org/matchups) and look for servers with a lot of points. You wont be able to transfer back within 7 days though.

EgonVenkman.1907:

Unless you want a legendary.

You also need Badges of Honor for a legendary. So…?

Honestly what I would like to see happen is the achievement split. Give the W vs W people credit for completing their respective areas and let the rest of us have something for the actual world we get to walk, crawl and run through not stand in-line to battle other players. It’s an exploration title not a game completion title.

Regardless of how it’s explained to me W vs W is simply P vs P to me and is nothing short of a strategy type scenario where me and my party are the pcs on the board. It is not a story or something where I can actually immerse myself into like I can actually exploring the world. You could argue it is but if I want a strategy game I’ll actually go play one which doesn’t involve dealing with dozens of people I have to mute or ignore. I believe that splitting the title into two actual achievements would best serve the largest amount of players but again at this point if I get it I do and if I don’t so be it because it’s been tied to an area of the game I hate. I’ll try some of the suggestions that’s been made aside from actually switching servers because I still want to game with friends on the same server. It’s just a disappointment but it won’t be the first or last one I’m sure and there will be things about this game I will and will not like. I would like to think that they are at least looking at a lot of suggestions, dislikes, and gripes on these forums and judging from the news they are and quite honestly I feel sorry for the Devs and community managers who keep this place somewhat sane.

It is optional. You don’t HAVE to do it.

Just keep your eye on the battlegrounds. Wait till your server is stomping face and go grab the PoI’s and such.

It’s part of the game.

If it’s not fun to you, don’t do it.

Actually I don’t think it’s optional, if you want to get a legendary :W

Romeo.4378:

Imagine this conversation in real life:

‘Hey, I’ve explored every country and continent on Earth’ says Guy 1

‘Err, you haven’t explored the North or South Poles…’ says Guy 2

‘Yeah but I hate the snow and cold, so it shouldn’t count as a continent’ says Guy 1

the north pole is a continent? …. really?

and there are no exploration points in Dungeons … are they not also part of the world?

The only reward for 100% world map completion is a little exp and two of the gifts of exploration. That’s it. These are used for the legendary weapons so unless you already have all of the other components, what’s the rush?

They’re not going to change it because a small percentage of the population doesn’t want to do the WvW portion like so many of us have done. A lot of us have done this numerous times already.

Ayrilana.1396:

The only reward for 100% world map completion is a little exp and two of the gifts of exploration. That’s it. These are used for the legendary weapons so unless you already have all of the other components, what’s the rush?

They’re not going to change it because a small percentage of the population doesn’t want to do the WvW portion like so many of us have done. A lot of us have done this numerous times already.

You get a shiny star next to your name too!

Had you started exploring when you made this thread instead of complaining you’d be done by now.

Map exploration included wvw as a way to engage players in thing they might not normally try out.

I thought I’d hate wvw as well but I actually really enjoy it. I’m glad I got pushed to go there.

so you are saying you want 100% map exploration without exploring 100% of the maps? yeah…ummmm…uhhhh….

It’s there to give the WvW players someone to get easy kills on. I know i died a few times trying to do it solo. The most frustrating thing is the waypoints are WAY to few there. Your best bet is to move your character(s) to a server that is close to 100 percent, get the achievement the move back in a week if your so inclined.
HTH

Just think of it as PvE with more advanced AI.

It’s very easy to grab all the points and you may not even run into battle for most of them. Just there’s a few POI that require fort to be taken. You can always wait till reset or for someone to take it though.

If you want a Legendary weapon you’re just going to have to get yourself drafted into the war and help out. It’s part of what being Legendary means in GW2. You’re supposed to get involved in most major aspects of the game.

Agenteusa.6380:

It is optional. You don’t HAVE to do it.

Just keep your eye on the battlegrounds. Wait till your server is stomping face and go grab the PoI’s and such.

It’s part of the game.

If it’s not fun to you, don’t do it.

Actually I don’t think it’s optional, if you want to get a legendary :W

And getting legendaries is optional. From my understanding, it’s also supposed to be quite difficult.

In Guild Wars 1 you had to play in a 4v4 arena match to get out of pre-searing. Guild Wars was a PvP focused game, maybe do research next time.

eric.6079:

so you are saying you want 100% map exploration without exploring 100% of the maps? yeah…ummmm…uhhhh….

This is actually already currently the case. I got the shiny star and still was missing zones on my map (jumping puzzles mainly). Going back to clear all those now.

It’s to force the PvE’rs into WvW. I say they remove the 100% map thing and the jumping puzzles so we never have to deal with them in WvW.

GreyFeathers.8175:

Nah….. Romeo you’re post doesn’t sound snarky at all it sounds exactly like something I would expect from a P vs P player and is usually the biggest reason many players hate P vs P over P vs E. It’s not so much the difference in the two it’s the players were forced to endure and their attitudes. You can dress up P vs P all you want but the same jack wagons and idiots we avoid as P vs E players will always be the same types in those areas. I know it seems lost on you but it really is that simple. I find your response and attitude typical of those players but it only serves to prove my point, but that’s just my honest opinion.

The battle grounds is nothing any P vs E player is going to consider anything short of P vs P and has absolutely nothing to do with exploration. These are maps which are not even attached to the world. Can we access them through exploration in any area in the world ? Plains of Ashford, Orr, Kessex Hills ? The answer is no…. so again why is a section of the world separated in it’s own space ? Perhaps it’s something which needs to be separate. If they want to open it up and include it on exploration then let’s just allow people into it by walking into it. This should let everyone be happy. I can see it now, people screaming but nobody is helping build fortifications or attacking the enemy. They’re just wandering around exploring. That would really tick off the commanders and Hard Core P vs P players wouldn’t it ? Oh wait I forgot someone just explained to me that this was P vs E so again try and give me another failed explanation or example as to why it’s classified as such.

Even in GW I…….. Underworld / Fissure of Woe / Domain of Anguish were considered elite areas and had no impact on ones exploration or back then cartographer title. I can’t be the only one who thinks this is BULL and it isn’t because we don’t want to work at something, we want P vs E and P vs P to remain separate where it belongs. If these truly are P vs E areas then they should be accessible by simple exploration. Trying to combine the two things never works and eventually someone will get the point. Judging by some of the more helpful and posts kept on topic others are equally confused.

Not an acceptable justification in the least. I’ve been around enough to have experienced everything from EQ and DAOC, To Final Fantasy and Guild Wars II – the key for me is that I’ve been able to completely avoid PvP for me, because I’d rather focus on compelling storytelling, in an involving, immersive environment – PvP does nothing to further, or achieve that.

Since this is an achievement/cosmetic thing, you are not at any kind of disadvantage if you forgo doing it. Acquiring a legendary is supposed to be a pinnacle achievement.

If it makes you feel any better, I had to explore PvP areas in Cantha to get the Legendary Cartographer title in GW1.

*Addendum: prior to the addition of ascended gear, and the upgrading of legendary gear to match, it was only a cosmetic thing.

Just because I was curious about how much pvp interaction was actually required to completely map the area, I popped into WvW today just to see how much I could get done.

Our servers were almost perfectly matched when I started. The answer is simply that when your world controls its own borderland, there is very little pvp. Most of it is fighting centaurs or walking around moas. When your world controls just its own third of the eternal battlegrounds, you can comfortably get 2-3 of the four skill points plus a third of the points of interest and vistas.

Most of the vistas especially are easy mode, probably due to the fact that they’re in a light pvp area. The challenge isn’t in climbing things or getting through jumping puzzles but rather in your server’s ability to hold territory.

tl;dr
It is really, really easy to map WvW. Just wait for your server to have a firm lock on territory then run in and take advantage. If you can’t get it right just now, come back in a few days. The only “difficulty” is in your inability to map everything in one day, unlike other zones and maps.

The only time I was in a battle without a zerg, I was jumped by a guild of people from another server going for the same skill point in the eternal battlegrounds. One actual pvp encounter out of 2 hours of play is nothing. You’ll be fine.

Have to agree with the OP. There have been many threads regarding this and, quite bluntley, ignored. It was a poor design decision and rather than changing it or acknowledging their mistake, they just ignore players. Not only those trolling but those with legitmate concerns as well as constructive criticism and suggestions.
I would suggest that they separate them so that you get rewarded for 100% completion for PvP, 100% completion for WvW,PvP. You do both- even more rewards. If you chose to one or the other, both, or none, it’s the players choice. Being forced to play WvW a by questionable game design is wrong. Ditto for the personal story. Play the whole line solo, then you are forced to have a group if you want to complete it. complete it,

Tbh when I found out I had to go into WvW to get the rest of my missing %, I decided that I wouldnt bother, since I hate PvP. Then some weeks down the line a friend made me go, I now have 99% , ofc Ive had 99% now for over 2mths since Gandara seem to refuse to go RED…. missing 2 vistas and 2 PoI’s, but they will come.. I hope :P

It can be fun, at first I just followed the big groups, I managed to complete my first ever monthly… and tonight I actually joined a team that went off to do different objectives to the main zerg and had a blast.. ofc I gave the other teams a few badges of honor but I got a few myself too. And because they cant yell NUB in chat… just think of it as being killed by an NPC

Waffler.1257:

In Guild Wars 1 you had to play in a 4v4 arena match to get out of pre-searing. Guild Wars was a PvP focused game, maybe do research next time.

I think you’re the one who needs to do some research, since you seem to be under the impression that GW1 and GW2 are the same game.

Well here’s another good reason for the split as well. Those of us going in there simply to get our exploration done and completed are for the most part going to do nothing to contribute to the W vs W events going on there. Those that do enjoy it would probably rather have another player there who wanted to join in then those simply looking to map. The game is joining two groups of players with two very different goals and it’s a flawed design. I know if I was into the W vs W action I’d rather have some more team mates then someone more worried about climbing around figuring out a jump puzzle or something like that.

it is a PvP game… so….. you’d think you would have to do PvP stuff maybe? Yeah…

This has been debated before with no reasonable conclusion and no answer from ANET. So the only thing you and I can do, if we wish to continue playing is, live with it.

Ignore world completion and do what you like. Or as some have suggested go to the Mists follow a zerg, complete your map and get out. Make sure you’re on a server that owns the map though.
That’s how I completed one of the borderlands.

P.S.: I really hate PvP too.

wacko.7543:

it is a PvP game… so….. you’d think you would have to do PvP stuff maybe? Yeah…

Unfortunately you are right. Even though there isn’t an ounce of PvPing that you need to do or even come close to, unless you want to complete map, earn monthlies, get legendaries.