Started yesterday and therefore likely will still change but currently CSE (City State Entertainment) is clearly leading with almost 30% of votes while Anet is somewhere in the middle with about 5%.
CSE is Mark Jacobs´ kickstarter-project for Camelot Unchained which currently is only pre-Alpha. As a kickstarter-game it has a very high level of transparency and there are e-mail-newsletters almost every week about what they are working on, screenshots, concept-art and so on.
In my opinion this shows a clear message:
- many players are fed up with the direction most of the industry takes (following metrics instead of experience and inspiration, ingameshops, . . .)
- transparency and open communication are the way to go (CSE wanted to be Alpha already in Summer, didn´t hurt them to be late)
- many players are fed up with the direction most of the industry takes (following metrics instead of experience and inspiration, ingameshops, . . .)
- transparency and open communication are the way to go (CSE wanted to be Alpha already in Summer, didn´t hurt them to be late)
Most companies are way more transparent and open before they release their games…
- many players are fed up with the direction most of the industry takes (following metrics instead of experience and inspiration, ingameshops, . . .)
- transparency and open communication are the way to go (CSE wanted to be Alpha already in Summer, didn´t hurt them to be late)
Most companies are way more transparent and open before they release their games…
Yepp .. because at that time they don’t have to handle with all those kittens in the
forums and most beta players are interestet in the new game because its new and
they are not already bored to death and have to post that every 5 minutes.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
I would say it is rather unfair to include companies that actually haven’t released anything yet. I think everyone can agree that the the community at large thought differently about ArenaNet before the release of GW2 and so on.
I voted for a different company, I love Guild Wars but Arena Net are not open, not sharing with the fans and most definitely not transparent about what they do. They occasionally listen, but at other times utterly deaf to the concerns and desires of the community rather ignoring things till it goes away.
Sorry, Arena Net is not a good studio from the standpoint of a gamer, but it is probably a nice place to work at. I also agree that developers that have not yet released a game should not be eligible for the list, they have no basis of being good at anything, yet.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
Unreleased game is always the best game, because your judgment is not based on facts and merits of the game, but manipulations of clever marketing.
I´m also not sure if Camelot Unchained will be a success, but the way CSE handles their community and communication obviously is. In other words: Mike O´Brien is wrong.
I´m also not sure if Camelot Unchained will be a success, but the way CSE handles their community and communication obviously is. In other words: Mike O´Brien is wrong.
But that is just the thing. In 99% of the cases a company is always more open before release. ArenaNet was on the about the same level of openness before GW2 was released as well.
My main mmo is GW2 but i didnt vote for ArenaNet because i dont think they actually are a good company at last for me… one prove was the recently delay for the next episode of the living story and theyre excuses that dont make any sence when they will release the new daily system and wintersday… i love gw2 but i dont like to play without knowing nothing about the future of the game… and theyre “delays”… for me the only good think that this game have is the actual content that the game had when it was in open beta and fractals all the content after that its like a “filler” to me… and the way this company works for me its wrong… its sad when pll I know call this game Filler Walls 2 instead of Guild Wars 2…
My main mmo is GW2 but i didnt vote for ArenaNet because i dont think they actually are a good company at last for me… one prove was the recently delay for the next episode of the living story and theyre excuses that dont make any sence when they will release the new daily system and wintersday… i love gw2 but i dont like to play without knowing nothing about the future of the game… and theyre “delays”… for me the only good think that this game have is the actual content that the game had when it was in open beta and fractals all the content after that its like a “filler” to me… and the way this company works for me its wrong… its sad when pll I know call this game Filler Walls 2 instead of Guild Wars 2…
You say the next LS episode is “delayed”….they never said it was coming in December. It just won’t be coming at the same interval as previous chapters. A lot of companies have breaks near the holidays. people take vacations, etc. It just so happens that this holiday break will push LS back to January for the next chapter. They could have very easily held off releasing the new daily system as well until that time rather than with the Wintersday update. Chances are the daily system was closer to completion than the next LS chapter so they finished that up to be ready for next week’s update and will finish up the next LS chapter in the first couple weeks of January. Wintersday is an annual event so the content for that is already created so it does not require much to put back in the game. So implying that they could have done the LS chapter but chose Wintersday/Daily Update instead isn’t really fair. You have no idea what’s in the next LS chapter or how long it took to make. A LS chapter requires art, dialog, new zone(s) etc. etc., but a daily achievement update wouldn’t, just changes to the UI and the underlying code for daily/monthly achievements.
- many players are fed up with the direction most of the industry takes (following metrics instead of experience and inspiration, ingameshops, . . .)
- transparency and open communication are the way to go (CSE wanted to be Alpha already in Summer, didn´t hurt them to be late)
Already had enough of Mark Jacobs while playing many years of Dark Ages of Camelot, No thanks. I have absolutely zero interest in playing his new game.
(and yes, I do realize that MJ bailed DaoC/Warhammer after getting lots of money from EA…..I was still playing DaoC and Warhammer during that transitional mess…..but I wasn’t crazy about some of MJ’s ideas when he was running the game)
Although sounds like his new game might be great for serious hardcore players…..if it ever comes out…..
Forum discussions -
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-
Also, “Kickstarter” both is a nice boost to a certain kind of hype and a ludicrously massive red flag for anyone that pays any attention at all to kickstarter and game development.
For this year, I would say Squeenix for being able to revive that ff14 project. What they’ve achieved this year is surely much better than any other companies.
Just like some ppl over here, I don’t understand the hype for CSE. Archeage was also hugely praised before the release. Look at the mess they have now. There’s a huge difference between pre-released development and fully-released MMO
Thanks for the link. Made sure to vote for Squenix because of incredible transparacy and frequent content updates with an insane amount of stuff added for all kinds of players i.e. casuals as well as hardcoreraiders and solo’ers.
I hope Anet improves, so next year I can vote for them!
CSE looks like they’ve built a lot of hype around the development of a popular game’s successor that hasn’t even been released yet.
Do you see the parallels yet?
The hype is mostly due to the transparency in the development process. They aren’t being super secretive, they keep the donators/customers in the loop, and they aren’t wavering on the ideas that it will be a niche game for PvPers and everything else is secondary. ArenaNet on the other hand is super secretive, they don’t keep players in the loop or even the same continent, and they consistently waver on ideals for the game. I mean we went from “max stats are easy to obtain” to ascended grind. “We don’t make grindy games!” yet they keep implementing grindy content. Even with the new daily system, the old system they wanted players to have freedom to play how they want, now it’s we want players to do things they don’t do that often. ArenaNet also works at an incredibly slow pace compared to the rest of the AAA market. FFXIV already leaves GW2 in the dust content wise and have an expansion coming out in the spring that has new classes/jobs(whatever they are called).
So a company whose game is mostly promise at this point is leading. That’s typical of the MMO fanbase. A lot of games look great before anyone plays them.
My vote is for Square. They’ve come back from a big setback with FFXIV’s first version, and they’ve risen to deliver one of (if not the) best MMO experiences on the market.
Years ago, I would have said Arenanet in half of a heartbeat. Before the release of Guild Wars 2, I would have said Arenanet. Before the November 2012 update, I still would have voted for them. Now…. sigh.
My vote is for Square. They’ve come back from a big setback with FFXIV’s first version, and they’ve risen to deliver one of (if not the) best MMO experiences on the market.
Years ago, I would have said Arenanet in half of a heartbeat. Before the release of Guild Wars 2, I would have said Arenanet. Before the November 2012 update, I still would have voted for them. Now…. sigh.
Yeah, back before GW2 I probably would have said Arenanet. Seems like a completely different company now.
I would have to agree with Square Enix being an outstanding studio, especially with what they did with FF14. If only other companies were willing to take the steps they have taken.
CSE looks like they’ve built a lot of hype around the development of a popular game’s successor that hasn’t even been released yet.
Do you see the parallels yet?
The hype is mostly due to the transparency in the development process. They aren’t being super secretive, they keep the donators/customers in the loop, and they aren’t wavering on the ideas that it will be a niche game for PvPers and everything else is secondary. ArenaNet on the other hand is super secretive, they don’t keep players in the loop or even the same continent, and they consistently waver on ideals for the game. I mean we went from “max stats are easy to obtain” to ascended grind. “We don’t make grindy games!” yet they keep implementing grindy content. Even with the new daily system, the old system they wanted players to have freedom to play how they want, now it’s we want players to do things they don’t do that often. ArenaNet also works at an incredibly slow pace compared to the rest of the AAA market. FFXIV already leaves GW2 in the dust content wise and have an expansion coming out in the spring that has new classes/jobs(whatever they are called).
You’re slightly missing the point by comparing a studio developing a game that has yet to be released to a studio that released its title over two years ago. Compare how both studios acted during the same phase of development and maybe you’ll get it.
YT channel - GW2 Activity vids and more Activities are dead.
Sanctum Sprint record times: any checkpoints – 39.333, all checkpoints – 1:55.633
Already had enough of Mark Jacobs while playing many years of Dark Ages of Camelot, No thanks. I have absolutely zero interest in playing his new game.
(and yes, I do realize that MJ bailed DaoC/Warhammer after getting lots of money from EA…..I was still playing DaoC and Warhammer during that transitional mess…..but I wasn’t crazy about some of MJ’s ideas when he was running the game)
Although sounds like his new game might be great for serious hardcore players…..if it ever comes out…..
Maybe he could do better independently, and hopefully not be tragically eaten by the EA alumni curse. The curse where a once talented/gifted developer that goes independent has their creative soul stripped out by their former employer EA. I am looking at you Richard Garriott and Peter Molyneux.
By the way I voted for none. Don’t even get me started on Square Enix. The same company who were cracking down on youtube/twich videos earlier this year, until the press got a hold of it. To which they relinquished their stance on the issue, but are still crossed with certain video game critics like Jim Sterling.
As for Arena Net they have a long way to go until they can really impress me again like they did when Nightfall came out. It might have to do with some of the original Arena Net staff leaving the company some time ago. That includes two out of it’s three original founders. Both Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt now work at Undead Labs. Furthermore the former design director at Arena Net James Phinney (that position was taken over by Chris “CDI” Whiteside) is also working at Undead Labs. Or it could be something else. Either way it does not help that their interpersonal communication skills with us have been severely lacking (or been selective to those who only “praise them”).
The winner Final Fantasy 14 looks so bad and dull (gameplays at youtube) that I don’t want play the free trial. GW2 is nice from the very begin. Good job Anet.
As for Arena Net they have a long way to go until they can really impress me again like they did when Nightfall came out. It might have to do with some of the original Arena Net staff leaving the company some time ago. That includes two out of it’s three original founders. Both Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt now work at Undead Labs. Furthermore the former design director at Arena Net James Phinney (that position was taken over by Chris “CDI” Whiteside) is also working at Undead Labs. Or it could be something else. Either way it does not help that their interpersonal communication skills with us have been severely lacking (or been selective to those who only “praise them”).
It’s rather unfortunate that Undead Labs has been very small-time. A decent zombie game and a Pokemon-style game that’s exclusive to smartphones is well….. disappointing, given the history of those individuals.
It’s rather unfortunate that Undead Labs has been very small-time. A decent zombie game and a Pokemon-style game that’s exclusive to smartphones is well….. disappointing, given the history of those individuals.
Yeah, they are still working on the MMO version of State of Decay. Since State of Decay was suppose to be a prototype for it. As for their other game (Moonrise) it makes me wonder: does Undead Labs have the original creative mind who worked on Polymock? That thought alone makes me shudder to think what would happen if Josh Foreman left the company. The creative output from that one man saves so many GW2 projects now; from being mechanically boring.
Anet is a very poor studio when you look at the amount of talent that has left over 2014. They can’t keep employees.
Oh? How many is that? How does that compare to other studios?
Game company turnover is entirely unheard of! (In an industry where the average at 1 place is 2 years)
~~~
MMO forum-fans though seem to be entirely hype-driven, and entirely grass-is-greener. It’s kind of weird seeing folks get sold over and over and over and over, and it’s been happening consistently for 15 years.
Game company turnover is entirely unheard of! (In an industry where the average at 1 place is 2 years)
Either that was sarcasm or you forgot to put in the word “not” (entirely unheard of). However there should not be praise for high turn over rates in any company period (even if it’s a norm). The problem with anyone leaving a team of talented game designers means it leaves a void to fill. As a comparison to when your favorite music band breaks up. Is it naturally going to happen. Sure. Is it a good thing? It’s very rarely good thing. Well you could say another band member, or another entirely different music band can take it’s place. True. However the odd of that working out is slim. Hence why the music industry has become very stagnant of late.
A company should always provide growth from within, before it uses a high turn over rate to fill in it’s void. First you have to retrain that new person in working on that particular game engine (which means development time loss). Afterward you have to hope that person you hired matches or surpasses the previous employes work ethics. If the person does not work out you have to start from square one all over again. Companies who say the new people bring new ideas with them is sorta of true; if the persons inventive ideas can sync up with the companies standards. Companies that have high turn over rates and outsource their work tend to stop caring about the products they make, their employs they hire (because of the personal disconnect), and even their customers. EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Microsoft, Sony, and Lucasarts are good examples of this problem within the industry (on top of poor management).
I can understand the doubts about CU, but hey they only started on the basics of their engine and design, it’s far from finished on how they want the final gameplay, the pre-alpha is still in principle development mode. The fact they’re letting donators in to check how things go, shows they wanna be open and willing to listen to those players up to a certain point. Are the CSE votes a hype? yes. It’s for MJ and his colleagues to justify the votes they’re getting now. If they screw up with the final alpha version and the beta version, they deserve to lose their lead next year.
But the openess they’re showing i haven’t seen yet by other games in development by other studios. But even then it can’t truely be compared because unlike CU, in most other games in design people haven’t put in money. Which the donators have for CU and MJ’s ideas for the game.
Also saying that CU is for pure PvP players is still in doubt by my vision. The PvP MJ is envisioning in his game is more the blob vs blob you see in GW2, instead of what happens in sPvP. Except it’ll be less aoe based than WvW.
So not sure that CU will be the game for hardcore PvPers who wanna stroke their kitten by being better in smallscale combat.
I can understand the doubts about CU, but hey they only started on the basics of their engine and design, it’s far from finished on how they want the final gameplay, the pre-alpha is still in principle development mode. The fact they’re letting donators in to check how things go, shows they wanna be open and willing to listen to those players up to a certain point. Are the CSE votes a hype? yes. It’s for MJ and his colleagues to justify the votes they’re getting now. If they screw up with the final alpha version and the beta version, they deserve to lose their lead next year.
But the openess they’re showing i haven’t seen yet by other games in development by other studios. But even then it can’t truely be compared because unlike CU, in most other games in design people haven’t put in money. Which the donators have for CU and MJ’s ideas for the game.
Also saying that CU is for pure PvP players is still in doubt by my vision. The PvP MJ is envisioning in his game is more the blob vs blob you see in GW2, instead of what happens in sPvP. Except it’ll be less aoe based than WvW.
So not sure that CU will be the game for hardcore PvPers who wanna stroke their kitten by being better in smallscale combat.
If we want to be frank about CU, I’d never ever ever ever trust a kickstarter MMO to come out, at least not within 5 years of it’s funding campaign. It’s great getting a bunch of people who you have no responsibility to to pony up the funding for your paycheck up front while you work on a dream game… but it’s not a great look for reasonably completed projects.
One thing to keep in mind when it comes to CU is that it was marketed during the Kickstarter as a PvP only sandbox, and yet after the campaign was over more and more PvE stuff seems to have crept in, so who know what it will be when/if it is actually released in 3-4 years?
I’m actually surprised to see Arenanet get 5th place in it’s current state. I would have guessed near absolute bottom of the list with their communication issues.
I’m actually surprised to see Arenanet get 5th place in it’s current state. I would have guessed near absolute bottom of the list with their communication issues.
It’s a poll. People vote based on the studio that they know and their products, not the actual quality of the studio.
One thing to keep in mind when it comes to CU is that it was marketed during the Kickstarter as a PvP only sandbox, and yet after the campaign was over more and more PvE stuff seems to have crept in, so who know what it will be when/if it is actually released in 3-4 years?
Game company turnover is entirely unheard of! (In an industry where the average at 1 place is 2 years)
Either that was sarcasm or you forgot to put in the word “not” (entirely unheard of). However there should not be praise for high turn over rates in any company period (even if it’s a norm). The problem with anyone leaving a team of talented game designers means it leaves a void to fill. As a comparison to when your favorite music band breaks up. Is it naturally going to happen. Sure. Is it a good thing? It’s very rarely good thing. Well you could say another band member, or another entirely different music band can take it’s place. True. However the odd of that working out is slim. Hence why the music industry has become very stagnant of late.
A company should always provide growth from within, before it uses a high turn over rate to fill in it’s void. First you have to retrain that new person in working on that particular game engine (which means development time loss). Afterward you have to hope that person you hired matches or surpasses the previous employes work ethics. If the person does not work out you have to start from square one all over again. Companies who say the new people bring new ideas with them is sorta of true; if the persons inventive ideas can sync up with the companies standards. Companies that have high turn over rates and outsource their work tend to stop caring about the products they make, their employs they hire (because of the personal disconnect), and even their customers. EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Microsoft, Sony, and Lucasarts are good examples of this problem within the industry (on top of poor management).
Nothing to do with praise or not praise.
First of all, only a small handful of people have actually left that we know of. And I believe the percentage of people who have left is pretty low.
And some people are people like Martin Kerstein who was a community manager and not a major programmer. He may have had talent, but not the kind of talent that’s being talked about here.
I can’t think of ten people who have left the company since launch. It’s pretty good compared to a lot of software companies.
Already had enough of Mark Jacobs while playing many years of Dark Ages of Camelot, No thanks. I have absolutely zero interest in playing his new game.
(and yes, I do realize that MJ bailed DaoC/Warhammer after getting lots of money from EA…..I was still playing DaoC and Warhammer during that transitional mess…..but I wasn’t crazy about some of MJ’s ideas when he was running the game)
Although sounds like his new game might be great for serious hardcore players…..if it ever comes out…..
Maybe he could do better independently, and hopefully not be tragically eaten by the EA alumni curse. The curse where a once talented/gifted developer that goes independent has their creative soul stripped out by their former employer EA. I am looking at you Richard Garriott and Peter Molyneux.
By the way I voted for none. Don’t even get me started on Square Enix. The same company who were cracking down on youtube/twich videos earlier this year, until the press got a hold of it. To which they relinquished their stance on the issue, but are still crossed with certain video game critics like Jim Sterling.
As for Arena Net they have a long way to go until they can really impress me again like they did when Nightfall came out. It might have to do with some of the original Arena Net staff leaving the company some time ago. That includes two out of it’s three original founders. Both Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt now work at Undead Labs. Furthermore the former design director at Arena Net James Phinney (that position was taken over by Chris “CDI” Whiteside) is also working at Undead Labs. Or it could be something else. Either way it does not help that their interpersonal communication skills with us have been severely lacking (or been selective to those who only “praise them”).
I would agree with most of what you said, except that Jacobs made a couple of horrendous decisions with the direction of DaoC before EA ever even had any interest in it. The game never really recovered from those decisions, and EA was just the final nail in the coffin, as DaoC was put on the shelf to collect dust after Warhammer and EA started completely mucking everything up.
Leaving DaoC, Warhammer, and the cancer that is EA was probably Jacobs’ best decision…..he could see the writing on the wall, and took the money and ran. I hope his next game does well, but I won’t be playing it, as he has made it clear that he is more interested in developing a game that is geared towards the hardcore RvR niche. I will be interested in seeing what sort of new ideas, if any, that he might have for RvR/WvW……maybe some other more casually inclined games will copy bits of his model if it is groundbreaking enough.
Forum discussions -
Mmo players with a screw loose vs mmo players with two screws loose. All very important stuff.
-Zenleto-
