Guild Wars 2

I have a major concern with the separation of HoT and PoF: Mastery Segmentation. We are going to have 3 sets of people – HoT, S3, and PoF. Those who don’t have all of them will have different sets of masteries. No HoT means no gliding and no mushrooms. HoT but no S3 means no Thermal tubes. Does that mean, since you can have PoF without these, that NONE of these will be used in PoF? All these mechanics simply abandoned in order to allow for separate purchasing?

This would be a tragedy. We have already seen how this can happen, with the masteries in season 3 that only appear once and then are abandoned. Wouldn’t it be great to continue building up a repertoire of abilities instead of just continually abandoning things? Segmenting the community silos everything, because everything has to be made ONLY to utilize the mechanics that are guaranteed to be present. This leads to a continuing process of inventing and then abandoning mechanics.

i believe that hot is bundled with PoF for new players and players who skipped hot

since you cannot buy hot (it seems) anymore.

living world abilities will probably either be abandoned (like season 2) or be optional for those who do not have access.

^HoT does not come with PoF. Those who don’t have HoT can add it to their purchase of PoF for an additional $20. Also, you can still buy HoT separately from PoF.

As for the topic, there are pros and cons to keeping old masteries relevant in new content. The pro was already stated. The con is that new or returning players will have to deal with an enormous grind in later xpacs. Anet wants you to be able to jump right into the new content. That’s why they give you a free level 80 boost and a set of exotic gear.

I will be absolutely gutted if Oakheart Vines don’t appear all over the place. That is the absolute best thing added to the game since launch.

My hope is that core movement abilities will get alternatives in PoF, not as “big deal” adds, but just as things you can get if you need them.

Ohoni.6057:

I will be absolutely gutted if Oakheart Vines don’t appear all over the place. That is the absolute best thing added to the game since launch.

My hope is that core movement abilities will get alternatives in PoF, not as “big deal” adds, but just as things you can get if you need them.

I take it you don’t live somewhere laggy like Australia? I’d love to use the oakvine more, but it’s so unresponsive.

Arcadio.6875:

^HoT does not come with PoF. Those who don’t have HoT can add it to their purchase of PoF for an additional $20. Also, you can still buy HoT separately from PoF.

As for the topic, there are pros and cons to keeping old masteries relevant in new content. The pro was already stated. The con is that new or returning players will have to deal with an enormous grind in later xpacs. Anet wants you to be able to jump right into the new content. That’s why they give you a free level 80 boost and a set of exotic gear.

alright, it never gave me that option when i bought, and they semed to have just updated the store to allow you to buy HOT again by itself, my mistake

They can use old masteries, they just won’t be required to progress. They could have updrafts as a shortcut for example, but anything from HoT would never be required for PoF’s story.

Some masteries will be simply be replaced. The bunny is the new jumping mushroom for example and gliding could easily be replaced in the same way, either with the skimmer or the missing griffon. Thermal tubes were a replacement for wallows and the desert would likely have its own variant of that; the sand wurms for example. Some masteries however will likely never be seen again as they were specific to the zone. Counter magic is going to be a tough one since it’s so common, but for ones like that, they can simply implement an expansion-specific variant.

Next expansion will be the bigger problem. This time it was easy, whereas mounts are a much bigger deal. They could just keep re-implementing them with different abilities, but the simplest option would be to just open the important masteries to everyone after the expansion.

I doubt they’ll abandon the HoT masteries completely in PoF. I mean, one of the best ways to encourage people who only buy PoF to also pick up HoT sometime in the future would be to throw those mastery abilities into the new areas to show people some of the stuff they could get if they also grab HoT.

They just won’t be required for anything of major importance. They can’t have any of them required for stuff like map completion, hero points, story progression, ect. However, they could still have hidden areas accessible only by, say, updrafts. Or alternative routes where you can use either PoF masteries (mounts) or HoT masteries.

It’d pretty much be the same way they have stuff like the ley line gliding set up in new maps. Very rarely is it ever a requirement (because its such a high-level mastery ability) but it can be very useful as a shortcut, alternate route, that sort of thing. The only difference is that instead of “very rarely” being required, it can never be required. Doesn’t mean it can’t be there and be useful though.

I mean, in theory I agree with the OP.

But… how is this unexpected / unusual / noteworthy?

If anything this creates an important upside to fully segregated gameplay elements: Newer expansions aren’t littered with special “me too!”-mechanics.

Think 5 expansions down the line. Each new zone now wants to / has to / players ask for the following elements:

• Gliding
• Mounts
• Mushrooms
• Updrafts
• Bouncing boards
• Rope ladders
• Moving carnivals
• Ramen shops
• Rafting streams

And so on.

I mean, it sounds cool at first, but thinking ahead this’d absolutely clutter zones with mechanics eventually. As one of the biggest issues I take with modern GW2 (especially after the NPE changes) is how badly it explains (or well, doesn’t) many of its mechanics, I really don’t want potential late-joining or late-returning players to get absolutely suffocated by mechanic coming at them from all sides.

Plus, it adds to the “flair” of each zone-set. And while there might not be dedicated support for these mechanics, they are usable, so it’s not like you lose out on them.

It will be the same as gliding in the old world. It’s not needed, but kitten useful to have.

Don’t expect to see to many mastery related movement options from HoT in PoF since the maps themselve will likely be flatter than HoT maps. Still gliding will remain a very useful tool to have.

One can expect that this trend will continue with future expansions meaning that the mounts we get now will not be required or as useful, but a nice out of combat speed addon if one has them.

It’s a mixed bag. If you make the expansions to reliable on old masteries, you create a huge content/ability wall any new or returning player has to pass. By keeping it light, they are allowing for everyone to enjoy the content (similar to people who opted to not buy HoT never had gliding in vanilla Tyria yet could still reach 100% of the world there).

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Does that mean, since you can have PoF without these, that NONE of these will be used in PoF? All these mechanics simply abandoned in order to allow for separate purchasing?

All these mechanics abandoned to allow new ones to appear. If they used all the old mastery abilities on all new maps, combined with new abilities for those new maps, would result in a total mess. I believe in PoF you’d need the proper mount to go to some places and bypassing that by using other abilities from HoT wouldn’t make sense.
It’s the same reason why they didn’t add thermal tubes or oakheart salves in core tyria maps.

Healix.5819:

They can use old masteries, they just won’t be required to progress. They could have updrafts as a shortcut for example, but anything from HoT would never be required for PoF’s story.

I think this would be the best solution.

With many of the masteries that’s already true. There are very few places you can’t get to without using Nuloch Wallows or Thermal Tubes or Oak Heart Reach and even fewer for advanced masteries like Advanced Gliding or Speed Boost Mushrooms.

So it wouldn’t be a big deal if they added them to the PoF maps but as one of several options, not the only way to do it.

Come to think of it I’d love to see a multi-path jumping puzzle. There could be a long, slow way where all you need to do is run and jump like the new one in Siren’s Landing – no timed or especially tricky jumps but it’s by far the longest way. At various points you can branch off from that path and take short-cuts or alternate routes (maybe with bonus chests) by gliding, using mounts, using Oak Heart’s reach, using Thermal Tubes, completing puzzles, dodging traps that require good timing, fighting enemies…literally all the mechanics they’ve ever put into jumping puzzles all in one, but it’s all optional so everyone can pick their preferred route. Or replay it all the different ways.

The new Masteries will provide new solutions for PoF but it doesn’t mean there won’t be uses for the old ones, HoT bouncy mushrooms, updrafts and leylines appear in LS3, for example, so they could appear in PoF too. They can’t and won’t be the only way to get around as that would create a dependency on HoT but might give an alternative to some of the PoF masteries at places. At the least I’d expect a few updrafts in places around PoF.

If nothing else Gliding will always be useful to safely get down from places and if you can bring your mounts to the HoT maps (I believe you can, you can bring them to core Tyria, after all) then those would be really useful in getting around there (for example, the bunny mount could act a bit like a portable bouncy mushroom, the raptor give a good way of crossing gaps and so on).

At some point (LS4?) they’re bound to intro a cool shiny, ie; legendary, new auroa, skin etc that you’ll need to have at least masteries from HoT and PoF if not LS3 to get, possibly over many maps or through a RAID.
Remember Anet is a business trying to make money.