Guild Wars 2

I’m only PvE player as well as most of my guild. I think this game is no longer interesting for me and my guildmates. We just move to other mmo’s that are better for ppl who need challange for 18+.

2 years ago I remember this game to be challenging, unique and breathtaking, but many of the old devs are no longer working in ANet, their ideas and spirit they’ve put into the game are gone long ago – I’m talking about those ideas which made me buy and support this game. For me it was solid gameplay with dark, fascinating and mature story.

ANet was from the very begining of GW2 with you, and after all this time you need to show me when to use my heal skill? WTF? That’s annoying, really. Don’t treat me like 12 year old kid, I want to figure out things for myself, and this game is too much “kid freindly” to do it now.

Another example: killing a world boss, please ANet don’t show me how I suppose to kill my opponent, just let me kill it my way! That’s the fun part of any game!

We waited for Guild Halls, we waited for GvG mode, we wanted duels, we wanted challenges, we waited for new expansions that we could buy. Dynamic events on maps, yes, that was cool at the beginig, but in endgame whey are just something that you pass on the map if you aren’t afk in LA.

Living story – I never was fan of it, I knew that small parts of content won’t keep me online in game for long – just like those dynamic events. It’s like too thinly spread butter on a slice of bread. If you are hungry you will eat it, but after so much time with those slices you got sick of them.

Our guild, like many other old ones, needs something big, and I mean like really big! Also make sure that new content is tested, we don’t like to be free beta-testers after final launch of the game.

Please ANet, treat old players with respect – they are were your main supporters!

I don’t understand what any of this has to do with targeting a particular age group.

Except maybe the living story being released in small chunks, which I would have thought would be better for older players who are more likely to have more commitments taking up their time.

Also for what it’s worth I’m 29 and I have no interest in GvG or duels. Both of them just bring back memories of people in GW1 endlessly spamming chat with “any1 1v1?” and never seeming to realise that they were the only person in the guild who found that remotely interesting. (Why they could never get together into one guild and leave everyone else alone I don’t know.)

Same here, I’m 32, and frankly if it weren’t for GW2 the way it is (with everything fully compartmentalized into bite-sized chunks I can chain at will or don’t), I doubt I could play any MMO.

There’s MMOs I could play if I wanted a fully time-consuming experience. There’s GW2 if I want a game I can play at my own pace without it making me feel like I’m lagging behind everyone else constantly. I have plenty things to criticize about it, but this is really not it.

And same here, duels are the last thing I could ever think of being interesting in a RPG. GvG, essentially being large and completely unnecessarily formalized duels, are just behind that. But duels are really way worse. If it’s on me, axe off sPvP and use the dev resources to balance WvW more and implement something like Darkness Falls (because while GW2 is the closest to DAoC’s superb PvP we’ve got, it’s not quite there).

It’s strange really. “Maturity” isn’t the first word I think of when I see all these whinge threads on a daily basis.

uknortherner.2670:

It’s strange really. “Maturity” isn’t the first word I think of when I see all these whinge threads on a daily basis.

It sounds better than “old”.

It’s not about young vs mature. (that sounded weird) – it’s about veteran vs new players.

It’s about die-hard MMO and game fans vs newbies who are only starting up.

GW2’s fast becoming baby’s first MMO – but that’s not a problem just GW2 has. A lot of games – both MMOs and non-MMO have right now is that they’re becoming simpler and simpler to cater to a segment of players that are : inexperienced, unwilling to learn or just bad at games in general yet still have plenty of money to spend on them.

Welcome to the gaming industry in 2014. I hate it just as much.

wow , first you said that this game isnt for mature people anymore and why?

Only for an arrow that appears on heal skills in low lvl maps and for a description or something to help in a boss?

And then you said that of things you want in the game

Old and mature are diferent things , and you lack of one

Harper.4173:

It’s not about young vs mature. (that sounded weird) – it’s about veteran vs new players.

It’s about die-hard MMO and game fans vs newbies who are only starting up.

GW2’s fast becoming baby’s first MMO – but that’s not a problem just GW2 has. A lot of games – both MMOs and non-MMO have right now is that they’re becoming simpler and simpler to cater to a segment of players that are : inexperienced, unwilling to learn or just bad at games in general yet still have plenty of money to spend on them.

Welcome to the gaming industry in 2014. I hate it just as much.

Simpler compared to what?

I don’t get how age, maturity or experience has much to do with whether GW2 is the game for you. For me the differentiator is time. For example, I CAN’T play games like SWTOR or WoW … I just can’t commit the time to ‘keep up’ with everyone else or be online for a specific time to do a raid. In GW2, I can keep up on MY time.

Simpler compared to games let’s say 10 years ago.

Compare GW1 to GW2.

In GW1 there were a million ways in which you could fail and get punished for it. From dying and getting kicked out of instances to simply being unable to build a proper character.

If you were bad and didn’t put in the time to get good the game punished you. You couldn’t perform.

Look at GW2 – it’s nearly impossible to be ineffective since stats are tied into gear, weapons come with skills built into them and there’s no penalty for wiping on bosses at all.

Look at other games – in the popular FPS games of old the skill gap was so wide a very good player could completely dominate and wreck a mediocre player any day of the week.

Look at FPS games today. Crutches upon crutches. Massive piles of crutches on which the average/bad player can lean on in order to nearly match people who spend thousands of hours on the game.

The “fail proof it for the bads” trend in video games has become dangerously prevalent.

still trying to find the mature part of your post :/
and guess you didn’t read the cdi’s

(warning controversial posting!)

This is something I`ve been following over a few years now and had quite a few interesting discussions with friends and guildies about this.

Imho catering (spoonfeed) everything is making the new gamer generations less and less used to using their brains, fighting to get to a goal or being persistant in reaching one. One big thing I see about that personally is that this behaviour our kids nowadays learn in a game will expect and repeat in their real life.

As a gaming company this is a responsibility they should be thinking about.

Over the years there is a strong change in the gamers generations I seen since being active in MMO`s.

In the starting years a gamer was helpful, usually polite (internet wasn`t as wide spread as nowadays) and I still remember us standing around talking about the hrs we needed to finally finish a boss or find our way around an area to complete high level quests.

The lastest gamers generation is totally ego driven, won`t rez you till they got their loot. Will try to stick their mob train on you if they can, wont think for two seconds but will instead ask in the map chat (I`m not speaking about everybody here), there is more but you get the message.

Only from playing places like Silverwastes you notice the difference who’s been around for a while. I`m also one of those guys that will help you up next to the treasure chest first and then loot it. Or stop and kill your mob add before the chest is gone. Today a Commander even turned around to pick me up after I died from a lovetrain somebody unloaded on me next to the chest… unfortunatly not something you see that often anymore.

Nowadays you can put a big fat icon over an NPC in the city (latest example: candy wrapper rat) and all you hear from ppl in LA is them asking where this guy might be they could give the wrappers.

In a few years you probably will get an achievement for successfully starting the game client.

But even then.. don`t panic there probably will be a youtube video that will show you how to do that.

A few years ago I remember sitting in the office (was working in the gaming industry then) and one of the guys from my project came in and started talking about “casual gamers” being the next big thing, he was so hyped I thought Jesus Christ must have shown up in that meeting and told them all about it while standing next to a burning bush.

Unfortunately, from then on games started to suck (sorry for my french here) and everything was on a down spiral.
I do understand catering ppl that work, I don`t understand thinking they`re braindead.

Harper.4173:

Simpler compared to games let’s say 10 years ago.

Compare GW1 to GW2.

In GW1 there were a million ways in which you could fail and get punished for it. From dying and getting kicked out of instances to simply being unable to build a proper character.

If you were bad and didn’t put in the time to get good the game punished you. You couldn’t perform.

Look at GW2 – it’s nearly impossible to be ineffective since stats are tied into gear, weapons come with skills built into them and there’s no penalty for wiping on bosses at all.

Look at other games – in the popular FPS games of old the skill gap was so wide a very good player could completely dominate and wreck a mediocre player any day of the week.

Look at FPS games today. Crutches upon crutches. Massive piles of crutches on which the average/bad player can lean on in order to nearly match people who spend thousands of hours on the game.

The “fail proof it for the bads” trend in video games has become dangerously prevalent.

Well as cost for game development increased, the need to find a broader market so the game is more likely to break even has become increasingly necessary. Which is easier, getting 10% of a small group of potential players or 1% of a player pool 10x larger?

IMO GW2 has always been about being a friendly to new players kind of MMO that’s more sophisticated than most F2P MMOs and doesn’t need the time commitment of older more “serious” MMOs. You can’t go casual in EVE or WoW unless you are willing to be a player that is left out of some content. Couple that with a subscription fee and it practically eliminates casual play unless the subscription fee is trivial to you.

This game’s PvE experience is built around a co-op belief where helping is encouraged and competitive play, ie rushes to tag critters first and nabbing a mat node, has mostly been eliminated. PvP everyone is put on an even threshold and only skill matters, not uber rare gear.

GW2 has always been a wading pool and not a rough sea. The sooner that you except that, the clearer the vision and purpose of this game becomes.

Harper.4173:

In GW1 there were a million ways in which you could fail and get punished for it. From dying and getting kicked out of instances to simply being unable to build a proper character.

No, I’m pretty sure that the only real way to fail in GW1 was to die. And it really wasn’t that hard to build a “proper” character because of how simple the mechanics were. You put points into one trait line, that trait line got better, you picked skills from that trait line. You wouldn’t take a loadout of water spells with you as a fire elementalist. You wouldn’t take hammer skills as a warrior if you’re using a sword. You also only had 8 skills you could take with you, resulting in a simpler choice.

Look at GW2 – it’s nearly impossible to be ineffective since stats are tied into gear, weapons come with skills built into them and there’s no penalty for wiping on bosses at all.

Please go into WvW with random gear on as an uplevel and random skills and traits and be super effective. At… y’know, being more than a bag for your opponent.

With GW2, you have to have the stats to support your build, the skill to know when to dodge, and while weapons come with skills built into them, how is that “simpler”? You still have to pick the right weapon. If you’re going to be stacking on a boss, for example, greatsword mesmer is going to be less effective than sword mesmer, because the greatsword 1 (which would be most frequently cast due to no cooldown) is less damage at close range. Then you have to pick your healing skill, your utilities, and your elite.

GW1, you didn’t really have to worry about picking which heal skill to use if you weren’t a healer.

Heck, if you want the prime example of how much simpler GW1 was, how about the fact that you could literally go through the game without any other players, using only AI to back you up? Sounds pretty simple to me, when no actual evasion or rotation skill is required and you can just stand and tank.

Look at other games – in the popular FPS games of old the skill gap was so wide a very good player could completely dominate and wreck a mediocre player any day of the week.

And they still can.

Also, depends on the FPS. A mediocre player with an AWP could dominate skilled players in Counter Strike as long as they could at least shoot straight and found a good camping spot, of which there were plenty. And I’m pretty sure that was a “popular FPS game of old”.

TFC, also a popular FPS game of old, had lame people who would run medic and do nothing but poison everyone they came across, people who did nothing but snipe, and the HW was built for those lacking skill. A mediocre demoman could destroy “skilled” players by simply finding a good choke spot around a corner, laying a trap, and waiting.

I fully agree with OP.Anet doesn’t care to give us challenging content anymore.They prefer to gain new people more then to keep veterans to stay.Problem is that Anet thinks vary wrong here.Players that are interested in game,wont mind to discover themselves how to dodge or heal…those that want everything simple are those that have no interest in learning,which means no interest in really playing game for long.

Anet made some really big mistakes with NPE where they sort of declared us as kittens that dont know how to press 1 button and dodge.
Anet….Player who know to install game is also smart enough to know how to do those “hard tasks” that 3 years old kid can do anytime so there is no reason to make this game simple and dump.
Keep in mind that Buy To Play games are usually those that older people play,not little kids.Reverse the changes of NPE

One could almost fill a BINGO card with this post.

saalle.4623:

I fully agree with OP.Anet doesn’t care to give us challenging content anymore.They prefer to gain new people more then to keep veterans to stay.Problem is that Anet thinks vary wrong here.Players that are interested in game,wont mind to discover themselves how to dodge or heal…those that want everything simple are those that have no interest in learning,which means no interest in really playing game for long.

Anet made some really big mistakes with NPE where they sort of declared us as kittens that dont know how to press 1 button and dodge.
Anet….Player who know to install game is also smart enough to know how to do those “hard tasks” that 3 years old kid can do anytime so there is no reason to make this game simple and dump.
Keep in mind that Buy To Play games are usually those that older people play,not little kids.Reverse the changes of NPE

To be fair, Anet has not changed the level of challenge this game offered since release day to catering to people they ‘prefer’. While I feel that NPE is really dumbed down, it’s actually harder to play since traits access is task-locked and more restricted by level than it was when the game was released. I certainly feel it appeals to a dumber player, but it’s not easier. To me that’s why it fails.

they had an opportunity to make world events challenging when the game launched. do you guys remember how silly they were with 20-30 people aoe’ing everything? nothing scaled properly to the numbers. some people couldn’t even tag anything to get credit. after a while, I realized that world events would never be challenging content. just grind-fests for cosmetics.

Eileane.3845:

In a few years you probably will get an achievement for successfully starting the game client.

But even then.. don`t panic there probably will be a youtube video that will show you how to do that.

Already exist :

saalle.4623:

Anet made some really big mistakes with NPE where they sort of declared us as kittens that dont know how to press 1 button and dodge.

NPE wasn’t for vets but newcomers. The problem is that they didn’t implement a way for vets to skip all the restrictions they set up for new players like they said they would. Other MMOs allowed you to skip the Tutorial. Here we didn’t have a tutorial at all until NPE dropped. It’s like going skiing and now everyone must first qualify on the bunny slopes before you get to go up to any of the trails every weekend.

The whining in this thread add a delicious scent of irony to this forum.

Games in general have become “dumbed down” for a lack of a better word. That’s because the number of people playing them has grown exponentially.

When games were a thing just for nerds, who tend to be smart, it was easy enough to make games that make you think. Now the nerd percentage of the audience has shrunk and lots of people have computers.

Many of us have years and years and years of experience playing games and we just adapt to new games almost instantly. We have so many points of reference that it’s quite easy to adapt. But there are people who have less years and less experience and those people want to play games too. And there may well be more of them than of us. o of course, the game systems won’t be as hard.

In addition a lot of people who used to be young and have time for games, now have families and jobs and can’t get that call at 2am that your boss has finally appeared in EQ and get your kitten out of bed because this is our last chance for another month. Those days are gone forever.

Guild Wars 1 was too complicated for a whole lot of people. But this doesn’t have anything to do with maturity. In fact, I’d think mature people would be more tolerant of people who aren’t quite as good, and need the extra help.

- I’m not complaining but this game is bad, other mmos are better, me and my efrands move there, don’t miss me.

Every topic like that is the same~

Funny enough, a hallmark of maturity is to stop caring too much about maturity.

I don`t think its a matter of zero tolerance to ppl that are new to this media, alot of people still love to explain or go for a hike with the new guys and listen to their impressions of the game your playing.

But I also think just because the internet is more accessible you don’t have start thinking they can`t adapt to a game.

It was the challenging games that still have a place in most peoples memories, not the mediocre ones you just played in a fly by.

If you design a game you should consider the “water heater” type playerbase will swoop in on the MMO release and also be gone as soon as they reach the “endgame” (2 days later!), whine a little bit about in some forums and that’s it.

OT: The new jumping puzzle and the “commandos” homage in the last living story chapter was really nice and a step in the right direction imo (hope to see both have a return in the game somewhere else (charr submarine base infiltration, large scale map of asura ruins full with mobs and legendary treasures and old lore books under tyria)

Both of the new maps, especially SW, are much more difficult than what we’ve seen before. If I’m not on my game in SW I can go splat pretty quickly. So if that’s a sign of what’s to come than I’m happy with the direction ANet is taking the difficulty.

Also, this is B2P so if you feel burned out just take a break. Plenty of other fun games to enjoy out there. We’ll be here open arms when you feel like coming back!

Eileane.3845:

-snip-

Since your entire post hinges on it, I thought I’d point out:

GW2 and Gaming in general isn’t to be blamed for the sense of “entitlement” that younger generations seem to have. In fact, games have become easier because of that. Younger generations want an instant gratification, and don’t want to spend much time on anything, and games have become accommodating of that (very few people among younger generations are willing to put in the effort for challenging content). Developers making games as hard as they used to be will probably have a harder time attracting a wider audience (games like Dark Souls, while really good and reminiscent of older games in terms of difficulty, probably don’t bring in the casual majority of gamers into the market).

GW2 aims to be casual-friendly while still providing challenging content for people who want it. There’s still some challenging content in the game (dungeons, fractals, silverwastes, dry top, orr, tequatl, and triple trouble), which have been made easier due to experience. Marionette is another example of challenging content requiring lots of coordination to succeed, too bad it was temporary.

Regarding rezzing near chests – depends on the chest. If it’s in the labyrinth, with a WP seconds away from the entrance and with things that can insta-kill anyone trying to rez, dead players aren’t doing anyone any favours. I’ve tried to rez people in the labyrinth whenever I can, taking a risk every time I do so. I even made a few joking bets with the dead player to see how long I can last before a lurcher got me. If it’s chests out in the open world, then I would agree. Rezzing the player before getting the chest is a nice thing to do (even with 2 waypoints in the map and a skritt tunnel network making it easier to navigate the map – it was fairly easy, albeit time-consuming, navigating the map before both were added).

@Filaha.

You would be surprised how many people IRL i met who were completely incompetent when it came to creating a build. Trust me – you underestimate them.

I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe – 8 attack skill bars and W/E that cast meteor shower.

WvW is PVP. I’m talking about PVE here. Maybe I should have specified that.

Any form of PVP – regardless of the game’s format will be a challenge since you’re facing human opponents that will punish you to death if you don’t know what you’re doing.

The mesmer example is a good idea but I’m talking about finishing the content. If you’re that bad that you don’t know what weapon to get you won’t care which one is more effective – you’ll have no clue.

The problem is the game doesn’t punish you for that wrong choice. It doesn’t wipe – you can complete just fine using any weapon. Even the wrong ones.

Regarding the AI thing – you do realize you can do the same if not more in GW2 right?

At least the AI heroes you had to control, manage and build up.

Other players just show up and zergs straight up carry people to victory.

Still – there is very little content in GW2 you can’t do alone. And by alone I don’t mean with 7 more AI helping you. I mean alone.

Also you’re missing the scope of things.

In CS a mediocre player wouldn’t even get an AWP because he’d lose the early rounds to skilled players and not have the money for it. Even if he saved up and did eventually get it it wouldn’t be worth it. The enemy team would already have more resources and would have won more rounds by then.

Your understanding of CS is lacking.

Also please compare the skill gap compressors in TFC to the ones put in modern COD games for example. See the difference.

Rashy.4165:

Eileane.3845:

-snip-

Since your entire post hinges on it, I thought I’d point out:

GW2 and Gaming in general isn’t to be blamed for the sense of “entitlement” that younger generations seem to have. In fact, games have become easier because of that. Younger generations want an instant gratification, and don’t want to spend much time on anything, and games have become accommodating of that (very few people among younger generations are willing to put in the effort for challenging content). Developers making games as hard as they used to be will probably have a harder time attracting a wider audience (games like Dark Souls, while really good and reminiscent of older games in terms of difficulty, probably don’t bring in the casual majority of gamers into the market).

GW2 aims to be casual-friendly while still providing challenging content for people who want it. There’s still some challenging content in the game (dungeons, fractals, silverwastes, dry top, orr, tequatl, and triple trouble), which have been made easier due to experience. Marionette is another example of challenging content requiring lots of coordination to succeed, too bad it was temporary.

Regarding rezzing near chests – depends on the chest. If it’s in the labyrinth, with a WP seconds away from the entrance and with things that can insta-kill anyone trying to rez, dead players aren’t doing anyone any favours. I’ve tried to rez people in the labyrinth whenever I can, taking a risk every time I do so. I even made a few joking bets with the dead player to see how long I can last before a lurcher got me. If it’s chests out in the open world, then I would agree. Rezzing the player before getting the chest is a nice thing to do (even with 2 waypoints in the map and a skritt tunnel network making it easier to navigate the map – it was fairly easy, albeit time-consuming, navigating the map before both were added).

Exactly my point from the first post I made in this post.

Younger generations want instant gratifications without doing anything for it or little and still feel lke the rules and pro gamers. The problem I see with that is this also transfers in alot of cases into their r/l, and ofc, vis versa. It would be interesting to think about the gaming industries responsibility of catering to this kind of behavior and way of thinking.

Btw trying to rez anybody in the laby is crazy Sir. I meant the bandit chests you dig up

tlenex.7901:

I’m only PvE player as well as most of my guild. I think this game is no longer interesting for me and my guildmates. We just move to other mmo’s that are better for ppl who need challange for 18+.

2 years ago I remember this game to be challenging, unique and breathtaking, but many of the old devs are no longer working in ANet, their ideas and spirit they’ve put into the game are gone long ago – I’m talking about those ideas which made me buy and support this game. For me it was solid gameplay with dark, fascinating and mature story.

ANet was from the very begining of GW2 with you, and after all this time you need to show me when to use my heal skill? WTF? That’s annoying, really. Don’t treat me like 12 year old kid, I want to figure out things for myself, and this game is too much “kid freindly” to do it now.

Another example: killing a world boss, please ANet don’t show me how I suppose to kill my opponent, just let me kill it my way! That’s the fun part of any game!

We waited for Guild Halls, we waited for GvG mode, we wanted duels, we wanted challenges, we waited for new expansions that we could buy. Dynamic events on maps, yes, that was cool at the beginig, but in endgame whey are just something that you pass on the map if you aren’t afk in LA.

Living story – I never was fan of it, I knew that small parts of content won’t keep me online in game for long – just like those dynamic events. It’s like too thinly spread butter on a slice of bread. If you are hungry you will eat it, but after so much time with those slices you got sick of them.

Our guild, like many other old ones, needs something big, and I mean like really big! Also make sure that new content is tested, we don’t like to be free beta-testers after final launch of the game.

Please ANet, treat old players with respect – they are were your main supporters!

That’s me and my guild to a T, all of it and right now I’m the only one that still plays out of over 100 members their last known log in is unknown.

tlenex.7901:

2 years ago I remember this game to be challenging, unique and breathtaking, but many of the old devs are no longer working in ANet, their ideas and spirit they’ve put into the game are gone long ago – I’m talking about those ideas which made me buy and support this game. For me it was solid gameplay with dark, fascinating and mature story.

Saying the storyline in GW2 is “dark” gave your troll away. Other than that it’s pretty solid.

Pretty fun read. For those who don’t realize: All the things the OP said they loved and wanted most in the game are things never implemented and actually explicitly confirmed as not existing in the game at launch, and clearly stated as being non-priorities in future development with absolutely no guarantee that they ever WOULD be implemented.

If you’re not trolling, lol you’ve been ignoring the signs. This game IS and never WAS the game for you. Just quit and find another game. I hear Aion is free to play now.

When are people going to realize an MMO is a game intended for a wide spectrum of people.

For some this was their very first MMO. For said people telling them how to use their heal skill is actually something they need. Its tragic how people like OP see a feature for new players that you end up exposed to for like 1 – 2 hrs max on a new character (if even that thanks to the truckload of instant level 20 scrolls us veteran players have) but then seem to completely miss how finally Arenanet have started to provide some challenging content.

Mordrem are definitely the most challenging mobs in the open world. Those story achievements? You can actually take a couple of days to finish one and not because it requires 300 clicks but because it actually takes a couple of days to beat it and beating it involves finding a good build and taking the right strategy.

funny how these super supporters of the game who claim anet should drop everything they’re doing and concentrate exclusively on their needs are so quick to try to find something no matter how minor (how many new characters do people start really? How often? ) to evangelize people should leave the game over and somehow completely miss Arenanet the fact that together with what they hate anet are also actually doing what they want.

@harper

What does CS and CoD have to do with Gw2?

GW had bewbs?

The average age of an MMO players is 26. I love the misconception that devs like Anet create games thinking about 10-15 year olds, a TINY minority of the MMO market, hence people feel this is valid reason for critique.

They know their market OP.

Dumbed down or not, it’s not because they are concerned with what players under 18 years of age think.

Tao.5096:

@harper

What does CS and CoD have to do with Gw2?

I’m describing an industry-wide phenomenon that is also happening in GW2.

It’s not just one game. It’s all games so they stand as relevant examples.

Galen Grey.4709:

When are people going to realize an MMO is a game intended for a wide spectrum of people.

MMOs are like movies. Not all of them are targeting everybody therefore each one doesn’t need to cater to everyone. And if they are doing well enough with the target group the DEVS were targeting, then it’s successful. They do not need to be all things to all people.

The problem with GW2 for one group of upset players is that it’s called Guild Wars 2. Yes it’s set in Tyria. But due to the time skip and due to making it more like other MMOs in structure, it’s not a true sequel to Guild Wars in terms of game mechanics. It would be like buying a Civ game and finding it’s an RTS with squad level content throughout the ages. Add to that the lack of an expansion model like the original GW and you have a bunch who feel liked they were sold a bill of goods because their expectations didn’t match the actual game.

Then there are the traditional MMO player (read WoW and clones) that expect the standard MMO trinity mechanic and raids. To them this game doesn’t conform to “the right way” an MMO is meant to be played. And with no factions outside of WvW, there is no player conflict within PvE, even optional ones like dueling. How can you stroke your ego in front of as many other players as possible without showing how outclassed they are. We don’t even have mounts much less tricked out ones showing how elite you are.

These two groups have been irritated by this game since it went live and after two years thinking their voices would change ANet’s vision they won’t accept that the core of this game will not change. It’s like expecting a movie to be reedited and released as a better version than the first one we got because you complain enough.

Not … going … to … happen.

tlenex.7901:

I’m only PvE player as well as most of my guild. I think this game is no longer interesting for me and my guildmates. We just move to other mmo’s that are better for ppl who need challange for 18+.

I don’t know if you’ve read this yet, but as someone in their mid-fourties, I urge you to do so:

Critics who treat ‘adult’ as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
~C.S. Lewis

tlenex.7901:

2 years ago I remember this game to be challenging, unique and breathtaking, but many of the old devs are no longer working in ANet, their ideas and spirit they’ve put into the game are gone long ago – I’m talking about those ideas which made me buy and support this game. For me it was solid gameplay with dark, fascinating and mature story.

And what changed is that you’ve been doing the same thing for two years now. Of course it’s not going to be as challenging and breathtaking to you as before. This has nothing to do with age.

tlenex.7901:

ANet was from the very begining of GW2 with you, and after all this time you need to show me when to use my heal skill? WTF? That’s annoying, really. Don’t treat me like 12 year old kid, I want to figure out things for myself, and this game is too much “kid freindly” to do it now.

What does this have to do with 12 year old kids? They improved the user interface to add another indicator that you’re about to die, as opposed to just the health sphere. In real life you would experience a great deal of pain and weakness, but since this level of realism isn’t yet available in computer games the developers have to make do with the available technologies. Have you checked your interface options to see if you could turn this off? If you’re such a pro, how are you even getting to the point where these indicators kick on?

tlenex.7901:

We waited for Guild Halls, we waited for GvG mode, we wanted duels, we wanted challenges, we waited for new expansions that we could buy. Dynamic events on maps, yes, that was cool at the beginig, but in endgame whey are just something that you pass on the map if you aren’t afk in LA.

What do those have to do with age? Granted, much of this has been on the back burner for a while, but it hasn’t been ruled out. As for expansions, I’m pretty sure that ArenaNet has always stated that while expansions haven’t been ruled out, they had never planned to do them. Instead we get Living Story.

tlenex.7901:

Living story – I never was fan of it, I knew that small parts of content won’t keep me online in game for long – just like those dynamic events. It’s like too thinly spread butter on a slice of bread. If you are hungry you will eat it, but after so much time with those slices you got sick of them.

What are you expecting out of an expansion that you aren’t getting out of the Living Story?

tlenex.7901:

Our guild, like many other old ones, needs something big, and I mean like really big! Also make sure that new content is tested, we don’t like to be free beta-testers after final launch of the game.

This is kind of ambiguous, but I hope ArenaNet gets something big out for you soon.

tlenex.7901:

Please ANet, treat old players with respect – they are were your main supporters!

I’m an old player (in terms of real life age), and I feel respected. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

Harper.4173:

Simpler compared to games let’s say 10 years ago.

Compare GW1 to GW2.

In GW1 there were a million ways in which you could fail and get punished for it. From dying and getting kicked out of instances to simply being unable to build a proper character.

If you were bad and didn’t put in the time to get good the game punished you. You couldn’t perform.

In GW1 you were in an instance, and when things died they stayed dead. Aggro bubbles were clearly visible on the mini-map, as were enemies. Avoiding a group was trivial. In GW1 there were so many synergies that ArenaNet couldn’t hope to balance them all. Theorycrafters like me learned to keep our OP builds to ourselves since they were immediately nerfed as soon as they were publicized. As a result, every class had one form of easy mode or another. In GW1 we could equip and configure our heroes and henchmen in ways that made soloing most content quite trivial. I pretty much quit the game at around the time that my only remaining achievements consisted of:

• Remaining perpetually drunk for an ungodly amount of time
• AFKing in the luck circles during festivals
• Repeatedly sending my henchmen out to complete a quest that gave me more faction at a rate that was unattainable through natural means

I wouldn’t hold GW1 up as the standard by which difficulty is measured.

Still – what you mention did happen at high and above average levels of play.

Tell me please – don’t you think GW1 was more difficult than GW2 at average and below average levels of play?

With the wrong bar you had no hope.
With the wrong stats you had no hope.

GW1 – just like any game – becomes very easy for the advanced players. I’m just saying it was harder because it was less forgiving at average and lower levels of skill or understanding of games.

You probably had thousands of hours of game time. And it’s only natural you were good, theorized good builds and had a trivial experience.

I’m saying it was harder for those who could only put in a few hundred hours max. Or less.

i thought for sure this thread would have been about there being toilet conversation no matter what mapchat i go to, seems more like a newcomer vs lack of hardmode topic.. are they talking about the maturity of one’s lifespan playing video games?

Well whats shamefull is that i was just a young cub when i started playing gw1. And because of the challenge it gave me i continued playing and exploring a dangerous fantasy world in that.

It felt more reall and gratifying because it was hard, just like reall life. It gave me some tips of persistance in life aswell. That nothing is handed out for free. And you have to work to get somewhere.

The sad part is, in guildwars 2 there really isnt anything anymore left challenging. once youve run a dungeon too much and dont like to repeat the same old same old (fractals) it gets hard to be amused by it very fast. Its like your burnt out on content.

In a sense i hope they will add some epic dungeon content at the end of this seasons ride. Seeing as they are really graduatly trying to add harder and harder content they should give the veterans + the people who by now learned howto play something LS intensive.

I will never get the idea of a game trying to please a working crowd. Isnt it just an excuse to produce less content? and with that content more shallow content?

The idea ive gotten from guildwars 2 is simply that its not guildwars 1 but sadly, all my so called ‘historical achievements’ where saved on it, including the shiny graphics i once started playing with when i was a cub installing his first multiplayer fantasy world.

Behellagh.1468:

saalle.4623:

Anet made some really big mistakes with NPE where they sort of declared us as kittens that dont know how to press 1 button and dodge.

NPE wasn’t for vets but newcomers. The problem is that they didn’t implement a way for vets to skip all the restrictions they set up for new players like they said they would. Other MMOs allowed you to skip the Tutorial. Here we didn’t have a tutorial at all until NPE dropped. It’s like going skiing and now everyone must first qualify on the bunny slopes before you get to go up to any of the trails every weekend.

The more frustrating aspect of the NPE is why they did it in the first place. All those resources dumped into the wrong bucket.

Vix.6730:

Behellagh.1468:

saalle.4623:

Anet made some really big mistakes with NPE where they sort of declared us as kittens that dont know how to press 1 button and dodge.

NPE wasn’t for vets but newcomers. The problem is that they didn’t implement a way for vets to skip all the restrictions they set up for new players like they said they would. Other MMOs allowed you to skip the Tutorial. Here we didn’t have a tutorial at all until NPE dropped. It’s like going skiing and now everyone must first qualify on the bunny slopes before you get to go up to any of the trails every weekend.

The more frustrating aspect of the NPE is why they did it in the first place. All those resources dumped into the wrong bucket.

They did it because they had data that players left the game shortly after starting and saying it was because it was to confusing and or frustrating. And since churn will always cause players to leave, for a while at least, ANet need to make the game easier to keep newcomers. Not all newcomers are MMO vets or even RPG vets. Here is a game that costs the same as The Sims X, has not monthly fee, I’m going to try it out, it’s cheaper than WoW and being relatively new you aren’t as much of a newbie as someone starting WoW for the first time. They just have to get them over the learning hump.

After all if they stay, there’s a chance they will also drop some money toward the cash shop from time to time. If they don’t, ANet gets nothing.

Harper.4173:

The mesmer example is a good idea but I’m talking about finishing the content. If you’re that bad that you don’t know what weapon to get you won’t care which one is more effective – you’ll have no clue.

The problem is the game doesn’t punish you for that wrong choice. It doesn’t wipe – you can complete just fine using any weapon. Even the wrong ones.

I understand what you mean by the “wrong weapon.” However, it would be pretty stupid from a design standpoint to design weapons that would be, based on their numbers, unable to complete content. That would not apply to tuned instanced content with enrage timers, which are DPS tests.

“Mature audience” nope, Anet are such an advanced species and us humble monkeys are just lucky enough to have found keyboards to bash at our zoo. The fish at aquarium stupid and have short memories so Anet cater for them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Harper.4173:

The mesmer example is a good idea but I’m talking about finishing the content. If you’re that bad that you don’t know what weapon to get you won’t care which one is more effective – you’ll have no clue.

The problem is the game doesn’t punish you for that wrong choice. It doesn’t wipe – you can complete just fine using any weapon. Even the wrong ones.

I understand what you mean by the “wrong weapon.” However, it would be pretty stupid from a design standpoint to design weapons that would be, based on their numbers, unable to complete content. That would not apply to tuned instanced content with enrage timers, which are DPS tests.

The whole idea is that weapons – through their skills should be suited to a job or another.

Just like you would fail at fixing some nails if you used your phone instead of your hammer the game should also reward you for using the right weapons/skills in the right places and punish you for using the wrong ones.

It’s not about the DPS. It’s about what each weapon is supposed to do.

In GW2 – regardless of the different concepts and philosophies behind different weapons you can bring any weapon or weapon set to any fight and still win. With very little exception.

A harder game would punish mistakes more.

When I saw Mature Audience in your title, the two things that came into mind were people at a nursing home eating soup and Depends adult diapers. I’m not sure why. FML

tlenex.7901:

I’m only PvE player as well as most of my guild. I think this game is no longer interesting for me and my guildmates. We just move to other mmo’s that are better for ppl who need challange for 18+.

Define “challenge” that is meant for people 18+? I really can’t think of anything that would fit that.

“Please ANet, treat old players with respect – they are were your main supporters!”

No people who buy gems are their main supporters. People that have log in for the past 2 years almost if not every day and saying how great the game is doesn’t “support” them except boosting their ego.

Im afraid the OP is a victim of their own experiences. Yesterdays Challenge is today’s grind. There is no escape from that, no matter the amount of content you throw at people.

Eileane.3845:

(warning controversial posting!)

This is something I`ve been following over a few years now and had quite a few interesting discussions with friends and guildies about this.

Imho catering (spoonfeed) everything is making the new gamer generations less and less used to using their brains, fighting to get to a goal or being persistant in reaching one. One big thing I see about that personally is that this behaviour our kids nowadays learn in a game will expect and repeat in their real life.

As a gaming company this is a responsibility they should be thinking about.

Over the years there is a strong change in the gamers generations I seen since being active in MMO`s.

In the starting years a gamer was helpful, usually polite (internet wasn`t as wide spread as nowadays) and I still remember us standing around talking about the hrs we needed to finally finish a boss or find our way around an area to complete high level quests.

The lastest gamers generation is totally ego driven, won`t rez you till they got their loot. Will try to stick their mob train on you if they can, wont think for two seconds but will instead ask in the map chat (I`m not speaking about everybody here), there is more but you get the message.

Only from playing places like Silverwastes you notice the difference who’s been around for a while. I`m also one of those guys that will help you up next to the treasure chest first and then loot it. Or stop and kill your mob add before the chest is gone. Today a Commander even turned around to pick me up after I died from a lovetrain somebody unloaded on me next to the chest… unfortunatly not something you see that often anymore.

Nowadays you can put a big fat icon over an NPC in the city (latest example: candy wrapper rat) and all you hear from ppl in LA is them asking where this guy might be they could give the wrappers.

In a few years you probably will get an achievement for successfully starting the game client.

But even then.. don`t panic there probably will be a youtube video that will show you how to do that.

A few years ago I remember sitting in the office (was working in the gaming industry then) and one of the guys from my project came in and started talking about “casual gamers” being the next big thing, he was so hyped I thought Jesus Christ must have shown up in that meeting and told them all about it while standing next to a burning bush.

Unfortunately, from then on games started to suck (sorry for my french here) and everything was on a down spiral.
I do understand catering ppl that work, I don`t understand thinking they`re braindead.

i have times that i can’t really type what i want to say, you just typed exactly the problem i have in my mind for quite some time.

it’s like games become more ESRB 7 friendly even when they are TEEN rated, if they are TEEN rated don’t start treating us like 6 year olds