Guild Wars 2

Ide like to propose anet does a survey because it seems the player base and developers are on different pages atm

I think lots of the time it is more than a popularity contest.

For example if the developer knows players want item A, but item A just take way too long to develop, and is hard to do, more than that if the developer did a bad job players will be angry anyway. Not only that, since it take very long to develop the content, many people might get impatient.

But, item B is much easier to develop, the developer can do it quickly, and many people will actually do item B, eventhough the players arn’t thrill about it, they’ll actually log on and do it. There is small chance of failure.

If you are the developer, which route will you take. I just think it is more than what players want scenario.

laokoko.7403:

I think lots of the time it is more than a popularity contest.

For example if the developer knows players want item A, but item A just take way too long to develop, and is hard to do, more than that if the developer did a bad job players will be angry anyway. Not only that, since it take very long to develop the content, many people might get impatient.

But, item B is much easier to develop, the developer can do it quickly, and many people will actually do item B, eventhough the players arn’t thrill about it, they’ll actually log on and do it. There is small chance of failure.

If you are the developer, which route will you take. I just think it is more than what players want scenario.

problem with that is, eventually you have a lot of small changes not many people dislike, but no big updates that many people like.

phys.7689:

laokoko.7403:

I think lots of the time it is more than a popularity contest.

For example if the developer knows players want item A, but item A just take way too long to develop, and is hard to do, more than that if the developer did a bad job players will be angry anyway. Not only that, since it take very long to develop the content, many people might get impatient.

But, item B is much easier to develop, the developer can do it quickly, and many people will actually do item B, eventhough the players arn’t thrill about it, they’ll actually log on and do it. There is small chance of failure.

If you are the developer, which route will you take. I just think it is more than what players want scenario.

problem with that is, eventually you have a lot of small changes not many people dislike, but no big updates that many people like.

I understand, I’m just saying there are more things to consider. That being said, many people have put up survey over the past years, I’m sure someone from Anet have at least take a look at them.

Maybe people can start another unofficial survey? I’m not sure players even want to get a survey in their email.

All surveys seems to boil down to the same results that players want. New maps, new races, new professions, new weapons, new skills, new weapons skills, different weapons able to be used on different professions, new dungeons, new content aka expansion pack and so on.

Metrics crits Player Desires for 5.2 million damage.

We already had many surveys and white knights told us that forum community is minority,happy people play game/upset sit on forums and bla bla bla . I can agree with it that people writing on forums are minority but they are still huge playerbase and you can estimate what would be good for overall. When GW2 started I was part of polish community , we had over 800 people united in guilds and we still knew some polish guilds which just didnt care about this community . Today there are maybe 10 people left from former polish community and I can bet 100$ that max 10 people from this community came to this forum to write something . Most players just loged out and never came back .
Like somebody before said people very often demend really difficult content which requires much time to develop . But Anet can give us really a lot of recycled content .
-GvG/20vs20 battles -just cut some pve/www map make matchmaking and here we go we can have 10 or more new maps without any problem
-previous living story content – why they cant add for example SAB for 3-4 days per month with random generated achis like daily ? After SAB, destructuion of LA would come back for 3-4 days . There would be special portal and dessa will teleport players back to the past .

In another game DC universe developers added housing,guild halls etc etc almost 2 years after release !! So pls dont tell me it is impossible , just stupid Anet decissions .

In game survey is great idea we will see how many people want new map like dry tops, how many people want new dung and how many people want new pvp map . But there is one problem , people would see survey and they will demend content and right now anet is just sitting and doing nothing without any responsibility .

The only fair way for them to do a survey would be to have it in game. I don’t know what % of the game population visits the forums and actually participates but I am guessing it’s actually fairly low. I mean they could even give a small incentive to complete the survey in game, like a karma booster or something else relatively trivial as a small nod for players taking the time to fill out the survey.

@ShadowPuppet – I rather like that idea. Incentivise it, even if it’s something small. It will still get more people interested to spend a few minutes on it.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

@ShadowPuppet – I rather like that idea. Incentivise it, even if it’s something small. It will still get more people interested to spend a few minutes on it.

I’m no statistician, but isn’t that pretty much guaranteed to skew your results? More players who are willing to jump through hoops for small rewards?

It’s cute that you think they want feedback from players.

They want gem purchases so you can experience what they want the game to be. That is it in a nutshell, anything else is cute and delusional.

Gibson.4036:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

@ShadowPuppet – I rather like that idea. Incentivise it, even if it’s something small. It will still get more people interested to spend a few minutes on it.

I’m no statistician, but isn’t that pretty much guaranteed to skew your results? More players who are willing to jump through hoops for small rewards?

It might I suppose, I mean I am sure you would get people who would simply click the first option without reading just to get the reward as fast as possible. I suppose that is why I felt the reward should be fairly trivial though, not enough to make someone feel they had to take the survey, but just something small for the people who would have taken the survey even if no reward was offered.

Well, if they REALLY wanted to get completely unbiased results, they could just make the survey mandatory. Make it obscure the character select screen completely until you finish and close it. But then, that would be a poor idea for many other reasons.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Well, if they REALLY wanted to get completely unbiased results, they could just make the survey mandatory. Make it obscure the character select screen completely until you finish and close it. But then, that would be a poor idea for many other reasons.

That would likely still skew results since it would upset some of the more “sensitive” players. Angry people rarely give valuable rational feedback while they are in the midst of their tantrum.

They already know what most people want they also can’t talk about anything, what a horribly undesirable spot to be in. Maybe when the numbers are low enough they’ll recognize the folly of that policy and start real communication, but i won’t hold my breath. It also begs the question, if you know people want to hear information and you don’t give it to them there is a reason, so likely the person who made the policy knows already that the direction they are taking the game would be unpopular or disappointing ergo they would ensure it isn’t discussed to shield themselves.

Like I always say everything is supposition because that’s all we have.

laokoko.7403:

I think lots of the time it is more than a popularity contest.

For example if the developer knows players want item A, but item A just take way too long to develop, and is hard to do, more than that if the developer did a bad job players will be angry anyway. Not only that, since it take very long to develop the content, many people might get impatient.

But, item B is much easier to develop, the developer can do it quickly, and many people will actually do item B, eventhough the players arn’t thrill about it, they’ll actually log on and do it. There is small chance of failure.

If you are the developer, which route will you take. I just think it is more than what players want scenario.

This is called risk aversion, and it’s not a great long term strategy.

It will have the effect you say in the short term – but over time, the game will still bleed and slowly die.

To make something wonderful, you to take risks. Ask every entrepreneur ever in the history of mankind.

Ask Elon Musk.

Anet is very risk averse right now (so is Blizzard, btw) – because they want to ‘protect’ what revenue they have.

But if they want to grow – if they want to expand, they need to do something radical.

Anet needs a moonshot moment.

ipan.4356:

But if they want to grow – if they want to expand, they need to do something radical.

Anet needs a moonshot moment.

Quoted for Great Truth

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Too we have interaction here that’s incredibly effective. Yep, I’m thinking CDIs and I’m glad they’re back! (Even if I marvel how Chris is able to keep up the pace! )

Surveys are difficult to devise in a way that makes them unbiased and statistically accurate. That’s not to say it cannot be done, and the idea of surveys linked to an active game account certainly sounds better to me than those random Internet surveys, like “Who’s your favorite singer,” which get gamed through fan groups, artist management companies, publicists, agents, and the use of “ballot-box stuffing” methods, like vote, clear cache, vote again; vote, change computers, vote again; vote, set up 100 fake e-mail accounts, vote again.

Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of pennies about the subject, fwiw.

I honestly believe that they are read often and things are discussed internally but that’s where the issue lies, no final information is ever given to the players. I don’t blame anyone specifically just the policy of not trusting us with any real information about the future of the game. It’s getting very old for a lot of people and it’s disturbing to a lot of your player base so frankly and please don’t take it as an attack on you, all the pep talks given won’t really help until real information is shared, at least for me and everyone else who’s asked for the same openness.

PS. welcome back into the lion’s den….where’s the froggy?

Gaile, I adore you, and I know the work you do is hard and thankless, but I have to say that “effective medium for communication” is a problematic statement when we have a 51-52 page thread about traits and we haven’t gotten any feedback on it except when someone dropped in to say “wow, this thread is long. Could you summarize it?” and then…nothing.

This aspect of the game is considered game breaking by some percentage of the player base, and even just saying “Nope, not changing it. Sorry you hate it.” would be a more effective communication than just letting the thread fester, ya know?

Hi Gaile!

I’m glad that ANet can hear us, along with our hopes and expectations for GW2!

But can we hear ANet’s hopes and expectations?

Many of us have been hoping for things that seem reasonable but don’t seem to be in the company’s interests. Is there a plan for ANet to share some sort of roadmap to curb incompatible expectations?

edit: Vlad and Ducki beat me to it. 5 minute flood control is OP O.o

Why not make small surveys after every update ingame, that way you can have more information about how people feel ingame

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Gaile, from observing the forum it seems to me that the most consistently important issue for players is the trait system. Another persistent, but less important and universal, issue is SAB. At the very least, they seem that they are two of the most important “easy” fixes, given that most people want a return of previously existing content.

Am I just way off the mark on this? As it seems that these two point are being almost actively ignored.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Too we have interaction here that’s incredibly effective. Yep, I’m thinking CDIs and I’m glad they’re back! (Even if I marvel how Chris is able to keep up the pace! )

Surveys are difficult to devise in a way that makes them unbiased and statistically accurate. That’s not to say it cannot be done, and the idea of surveys linked to an active game account certainly sounds better to me than those random Internet surveys, like “Who’s your favorite singer,” which get gamed through fan groups, artist management companies, publicists, agents, and the use of “ballot-box stuffing” methods, like vote, clear cache, vote again; vote, change computers, vote again; vote, set up 100 fake e-mail accounts, vote again.

Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of pennies about the subject, fwiw.

I honestly believe that they are read often and things are discussed internally but that’s where the issue lies, no final information is ever given to the players. I don’t blame anyone specifically just the policy of not trusting us with any real information about the future of the game. It’s getting very old for a lot of people and it’s disturbing to a lot of your player base so frankly and please don’t take it as an attack on you, all the pep talks given won’t really help until real information is shared, at least for me and everyone else who’s asked for the same openness.

PS. welcome back into the lion’s den….where’s the froggy?

Not to mention that it’s not how most games are managed because it’s not very smart business-wise.

You have to generate hype to keep interest sustained. The way you do that is by actually talking about what your plans are. Additionally, doing so allows you to take corrective action when a concept proves to be very unpopular before you castrate your live game with it after wasting a huge amounts of development time.

And yes, I’m talking about you NPE and trait system. There are reasons why these implementations have had so much backlash (and why there’s so much unrest in general) that go beyond typical player whining about any x random change.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I honestly believe that they are read often and things are discussed internally but that’s where the issue lies, no final information is ever given to the players. I don’t blame anyone specifically just the policy of not trusting us with any real information about the future of the game. It’s getting very old for a lot of people and it’s disturbing to a lot of your player base so frankly and please don’t take it as an attack on you, all the pep talks given won’t really help until real information is shared, at least for me and everyone else who’s asked for the same openness.

PS. welcome back into the lion’s den….where’s the froggy?

I think people are forgetting the pitchfork wars that happened when they did tell us about what they were planning for the game. People automatically take a “we want to do this” as a “this is coming in the near future! Everyone get on the hype train!” Even if they don’t make promises, people will take it as a promise, which is why I can’t begrudge them of their “Don’t talk during development” policy.

That said, they probably shouldn’t leave full reveals to streamers or youtubers (like they did for september feature pack). The patch notes, which the streamers use for those videos, aren’t incredibly detailed and they miss a lot, which leads to situations like what happened earlier this month; where everyone thinks the NPE is working exactly as intended when it really isn’t.

tl;dr: I don’t begrudge them their information during development policy, but there really are places where they should be more open, ie. release notes.

Selene.9415:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

I honestly believe that they are read often and things are discussed internally but that’s where the issue lies, no final information is ever given to the players. I don’t blame anyone specifically just the policy of not trusting us with any real information about the future of the game. It’s getting very old for a lot of people and it’s disturbing to a lot of your player base so frankly and please don’t take it as an attack on you, all the pep talks given won’t really help until real information is shared, at least for me and everyone else who’s asked for the same openness.

PS. welcome back into the lion’s den….where’s the froggy?

I think people are forgetting the pitchfork wars that happened when they did tell us about what they were planning for the game. People automatically take a “we want to do this” as a “this is coming in the near future! Everyone get on the hype train!” Even if they don’t make promises, people will take it as a promise, which is why I can’t begrudge them of their “Don’t talk during development” policy.

That said, they probably shouldn’t leave full reveals to streamers or youtubers (like they did for september feature pack). The patch notes, which the streamers use for those videos, aren’t incredibly detailed and they miss a lot, which leads to situations like what happened earlier this month; where everyone thinks the NPE is working exactly as intended when it really isn’t.

tl;dr: I don’t begrudge them their information during development policy, but there really are places where they should be more open, ie. release notes.

There are games that have shown that active communication works. Eve for example has made mistakes but has done what they can to correct them. They actively listen to and work with the community to provide the best game for their current players. This has caused them to grow in players rather than shrink. There is no reason for arenanet not to communicate. If arenanet know that the direction they are going is going to kitten people off and make people rage on the forums then it is obviously a bad decision and should not be done. If they are staying silent because of fear of kittening people off and people raging on the forums because they aren’t sure if is something that will go over well or not, then that is exactly the time they should be communicating. The player base will be divided on many things but some things like changing traits and dumbing down starter areas I’m pretty sure the player base would have agreed on, that its a bad idea and to spend your time on something better for the game. If arenanet really felt that the starter areas were issues or traits were issues they should have created an in game survey and asked. If they want to know why people quit they should create a survey upon uninstalling GW2. Not use some metrics to try to guess what people want. Telling people this is what you want the metrics said so is dumb. Its like trying to read someone’s mind that is willing to tell you what they are thinking if only you would just ask and then listen when we speak.

Einlanzer.1627:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Too we have interaction here that’s incredibly effective. Yep, I’m thinking CDIs and I’m glad they’re back! (Even if I marvel how Chris is able to keep up the pace! )

Surveys are difficult to devise in a way that makes them unbiased and statistically accurate. That’s not to say it cannot be done, and the idea of surveys linked to an active game account certainly sounds better to me than those random Internet surveys, like “Who’s your favorite singer,” which get gamed through fan groups, artist management companies, publicists, agents, and the use of “ballot-box stuffing” methods, like vote, clear cache, vote again; vote, change computers, vote again; vote, set up 100 fake e-mail accounts, vote again.

Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of pennies about the subject, fwiw.

I honestly believe that they are read often and things are discussed internally but that’s where the issue lies, no final information is ever given to the players. I don’t blame anyone specifically just the policy of not trusting us with any real information about the future of the game. It’s getting very old for a lot of people and it’s disturbing to a lot of your player base so frankly and please don’t take it as an attack on you, all the pep talks given won’t really help until real information is shared, at least for me and everyone else who’s asked for the same openness.

PS. welcome back into the lion’s den….where’s the froggy?

Not to mention that it’s not how most games are managed because it’s not very smart business-wise.

You have to generate hype to keep interest sustained. The way you do that is by actually talking about what your plans are. Additionally, doing so allows you to take corrective action when a concept proves to be very unpopular before you castrate your live game with it.

And yes, I’m talking about you NPE and trait system. There are reasons why these implementations have had so much backlash (and why there’s so much unrest in general) that go beyond typical player whining about any x random change.

I thought after SOE showed the world what not to do when running an MMO that no one would ever be dumb enough to do it again. Least of all arenanet. The fact they are calling it the NPE makes me think they are doing this on purpose but I just can not fathom why.

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Too we have interaction here that’s incredibly effective. Yep, I’m thinking CDIs and I’m glad they’re back! (Even if I marvel how Chris is able to keep up the pace! )

Surveys are difficult to devise in a way that makes them unbiased and statistically accurate. That’s not to say it cannot be done, and the idea of surveys linked to an active game account certainly sounds better to me than those random Internet surveys, like “Who’s your favorite singer,” which get gamed through fan groups, artist management companies, publicists, agents, and the use of “ballot-box stuffing” methods, like vote, clear cache, vote again; vote, change computers, vote again; vote, set up 100 fake e-mail accounts, vote again.

Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of pennies about the subject, fwiw.

Hello Gaile,

Firstly, thank you for being a presence on the forums. A presence has been long overdue. Your efforts are appreciated.

Secondly, to echo CrashTestAuto, some of the threads here are almost a half year old now and really need some attention by someone. In particular, the Traits thread. There hasn’t been any meaningful discussion there in 5 months, even though Chris acknowledged a month or so ago that he is aware. Can you please nudge someone to open lines of communication in that thread?

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Too we have interaction here that’s incredibly effective. Yep, I’m thinking CDIs and I’m glad they’re back! (Even if I marvel how Chris is able to keep up the pace! )

Surveys are difficult to devise in a way that makes them unbiased and statistically accurate. That’s not to say it cannot be done, and the idea of surveys linked to an active game account certainly sounds better to me than those random Internet surveys, like “Who’s your favorite singer,” which get gamed through fan groups, artist management companies, publicists, agents, and the use of “ballot-box stuffing” methods, like vote, clear cache, vote again; vote, change computers, vote again; vote, set up 100 fake e-mail accounts, vote again.

Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of pennies about the subject, fwiw.

I definitely wonder how the team reads the threads and doesn’t want to throw a rock through the screen sometimes. If it were me i’d be setting more people straight (including myself sometimes), which would most likely just get me in trouble. Be nice to see more feedback from them though, even though they are surely busy making us shiny things.

Selene.9415:

I think people are forgetting the pitchfork wars that happened when they did tell us about what they were planning for the game. People automatically take a “we want to do this” as a “this is coming in the near future! Everyone get on the hype train!” Even if they don’t make promises, people will take it as a promise, which is why I can’t begrudge them of their “Don’t talk during development” policy.

That said, they probably shouldn’t leave full reveals to streamers or youtubers (like they did for september feature pack). The patch notes, which the streamers use for those videos, aren’t incredibly detailed and they miss a lot, which leads to situations like what happened earlier this month; where everyone thinks the NPE is working exactly as intended when it really isn’t.

tl;dr: I don’t begrudge them their information during development policy, but there really are places where they should be more open, ie. release notes.

I’ve said several times the information doesn’t have to be in great detail but a general idea of where you’re taking the game in the future is more than a reasonable request. Why not answer some of the specifics to keep people happy, why keep silent and drive customers away. There is no scenario where that makes sense, and I cannot see the harm in coming here and saying; we are or are not making an expansion pack, we are or are not looking at the trait system, we are or we are not releasing SAB? No details no time frame just some general information.
The one and only reason not to give out that kind information as I’ve said in the past is the fear the answers will be very unpopular and cause more harm than good, but silence can and will have the same effect.

You give me confidence that voices go heard, Gaile. For far to long I have missed your interaction with the community, ever since I stopped playing GW1 after 2 years and by the time GW2 went live you were promoted to a new (or several new) positions.

It is the interaction that drives constructive discussions, for to long it seemed the parenthetical “Sit down, shut up, grown ups are developing this game”. I hope to see stronger communication in the future. Threads with topics like “Communicating with you” that go dead from the developer side do not advance any notion that communication is progressing.

Consumers need to be not just “heard” but responded to at some interval. Silence does not eschew any feeling of actually “being heard” other than “what is that clamor shuts window”

They could tell us whether or not they’re working on an expansion.

ipan.4356:

They could tell us whether or not they’re working on an expansion.

Yh exactly any info ! Like we are working on build templates stay tuned we will release it in maybe 2 months and it is enough . It is still better then waiting 6 months for new cmd colors o_0 such a great upgrade .

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

…

Gaile, if you and the devs know that the pressing issues with this game, and there’s so much player desire to get this stuff implemented, then why isn’t it getting done, and instead we’re getting ‘fluff’?

It’s been more than 2 years now, and I hate to say it but the predecessor of this game (that I had so much hope for) is shining in so many more ways than this one ever could; even if GW2 is better graphically, it’s still lagging behind GW1 in terms of overall progress.

If these forums are read daily by team members then why has so little content (which you should know by now, we want) been implemented?

ipan.4356:

They could tell us whether or not they’re working on an expansion.

No they can’t. It’s their policy not to divulge any information of what they’re doing with the game (anything upcoming, changes to Halloween/Christmas, etc.), and this ‘policy’ which, if you look around for a general concensus, is in a lot of people’s eyes, the very source of all the toxicity.

Maybe maybe its time they bring GVG maybe its time they bring Guild Halls Maybe its time they give expansion so players like me that don’t log anymore can log in from time to time and o something new in the game and maybe then ILL buy some gems maybe Gaile Gray is good community-manager “Sarcasm” !
Seriously i’m playing the same old maps in pve there is nothing new to do for ages now i’m EPICLY bored if i start new mmo and i’m thinking i will not come back here ever again cuz i invest time and money inside my games and is not something i can easy switch

Gele.2048:

Maybe maybe its time they bring GVG maybe its time they bring Guild Halls Maybe its time they give expansion so players like me that don’t log anymore can log in from time to time and o something new in the game and maybe then ILL buy some gems maybe Gaile Gray is good community-manager “Sarcasm” !
Seriously i’m playing the same old maps in pve there is nothing new to do for ages now i’m EPICLY bored if i start new mmo and i’m thinking i will not come back here ever again cuz i invest time and money inside my games and is not something i can easy switch

Me, my bro, and many of my friends in GW2 have already made a switch to another game. Zombies Monsters Robots. Its a 3rd person survival horror shooter lolol. Yeah…. That’s how pathetic this game has become for us!

I’m surprised at the avoidance of in-game surveys. Even during this trial week, people may play and then not buy the game, but how can anyone know why they chose not to buy it if there isn’t some sort of survey/feedback in the game. It could be anywhere from “the artwork is not my style” to “I’m confused where to go.” Something as simple as a textbox asking, why are you uninstalling the game, would give real-time feedback. Why reject using this resource?

Penarddun.6827:

I’m surprised at the avoidance of in-game surveys. Even during this trial week, people may play and then not buy the game, but how can anyone know why they chose not to buy it if there isn’t some sort of survey/feedback in the game. It could be anywhere from “the artwork is not my style” to “I’m confused where to go.” Something as simple as a textbox asking, why are you uninstalling the game, would give real-time feedback. Why reject using this resource?

Because if they have straight answers they can not make the metrics say what they want them to say. And then the genius making all these decisions will probably get the boot.

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

ipan.4356:

They could tell us whether or not they’re working on an expansion.

No they can’t. It’s their policy not to divulge any information of what they’re doing with the game (anything upcoming, changes to Halloween/Christmas, etc.), and this ‘policy’ which, if you look around for a general concensus, is in a lot of people’s eyes, the very source of all the toxicity.

It’s not the source of all the toxicity, but it certainly helps strengthen it. Class balance, or lack of it, is a huge part of it. 6 months for a class balance patch is simply unacceptable. Another major issue is ArenaNet’s apparent lack of logic when implementing things or, again, class balance. I mean there is a reason that ArenaNet is now known to have a “1 step forward 2 steps back” approach to changes and new features. Then we have another biggy, ArenaNet doesn’t seem to listen. How long were the threads when ascended was getting put in? Yet nothing came of it. How long is the trait thread about reverting the trait system changes? Nothing! There is a 90% chance that no matter what the players say, unanimous or not, about something new or a change, ArenaNet will still implement it.

Knowing what’s in development isn’t really going to change those things. ArenaNet could tell us what it is they are working on like “New WvW maps”, but we won’t know the details. Given the “1 step forward and 2 steps back” design approach the details will be what’s important. Say you need to kill the 3 headed wurm and get a certain soulbound rare drop to actually gain access to the new maps. New maps are good! Locking it behind high end PvE and RNG, BAD. When players finally learn the details they will make a fuss and ArenaNet will shrug it off since they want more people to do 3 headed wurm. So when it finally gets implemented and only 5% of the population actually use it, they then justify not doing anymore WvW maps because no one uses them. It seems a bit outlandish, but the scary part is that I think it’s something that ArenaNet would actually do.

I honestly don’t think that they are read daily at least not until some media company becomes involved by writing a scathing review as few and far between they’ve been for this title, mind you. I’ve also seen how well received games have been that have implemented an in game system of reviews and requests by players.

These games have popdown menus with categories, they have an in game box of limited character length of course 500 characters, but because they have a system of reporting directly to the developers the developers need only sift through the reports from actual players with a simple elegant and easily archive-able format. In these games in which this system was used, the games flourished because nothing was ignored like it is in the standard mmo forum system. Nothing was missed because of the sheer number of suggestions not being properly categorized or cataloged. Everything was keep in order and because of that, the developers of these games were able to put out exactly what the players were looking for.

Sure people might come and read only certain threads Gaile they might even manage to get through a few a day but how many suggestions that have been made both before and after the archiving of the suggestions folder have the development team missed because it was a thread that wasn’t very big in replies so it disappeared quickly? How many times was a thread passed by because the people checking the forums were looking at only the CDI threads? How many brilliant ideas were left out because someone was having a bad day and the thread system just wasn’t organized enough to keep up with it all? You also have to take into consideration that many people who play the game don’t come to the forums but deserve a voice.

I think just this once, the team should use something this important from mmo development history so they can at long last make it a bit more organized and focused on ideas from the players remaining. If they did this just this one thing it would vastly improve the game by helping to focus on what most players consider to be the most important things and improve the communication players have with the developers directly. I guess what I’m saying is, I think it’s time for GW2 to grow up, and I don’t say that as a cynical thing, I mean grow up as far as the tried and true methods already in use today and in the games that had the best relationship with their players.

Gaile Gray.6029

These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication.

If all devs communicated as effectively and frequently as you and maybe 2 others did, Gaile, this would be true.

As it is, there are several areas in which these forums have proved ineffective. The SAB [merged] thread has over 600 posts asking for dev response, and none has been given. This topic was virulent enough that it seems to have merited a merge to keep it contained, but it still has not received a single dev response.

The Hobo Sacks: A Terrible Fashion Statement has over a thousand posts to it, and only one dev response, from over a year ago, of a single programmer’s thoughts on the issue. It has received no attention since.

These topics aren’t alone- there are several other large issues that are brought up and either ignored by devs, or commented on for a bit then ignored before the issue is resolved.

You are good at what you do, but you can’t be expected to cover everything, and most other devs on the forums have not delivered to the extent players expect, leaving many forum-goers disillusioned and lacking confidence in the forums as a method of getting attention on issues.

EDIT: Credit where it’s due, Gaile has responded the the SAB thread. Thank you for the communication.

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Too we have interaction here that’s incredibly effective. Yep, I’m thinking CDIs and I’m glad they’re back! (Even if I marvel how Chris is able to keep up the pace! )

Surveys are difficult to devise in a way that makes them unbiased and statistically accurate. That’s not to say it cannot be done, and the idea of surveys linked to an active game account certainly sounds better to me than those random Internet surveys, like “Who’s your favorite singer,” which get gamed through fan groups, artist management companies, publicists, agents, and the use of “ballot-box stuffing” methods, like vote, clear cache, vote again; vote, change computers, vote again; vote, set up 100 fake e-mail accounts, vote again.

Anyway, just wanted to add a couple of pennies about the subject, fwiw.

You can implement a survey ingame like you did during the betas with the feedback forms. Pretty much all of the cons of a survey are non-factor that way.

tigirius.9014:

I think it’s time for GW2 to grow up, and I don’t say that as a cynical thing, I mean grow up as far as the tried and true methods already in use today and in the games that had the best relationship with their players.

I think Arena Net needs to grow up and banish their non disclosure policy of what they’re working on. All it is is an excuse. A cop out so that they don’t have to deal with confrontation. I myself would gladly support them and invest in gems if i knew the game had a future, but why should I if after two years, we don’t know where the game is going?
Isn’t it time for them to swallow their pride an inform us of whats going on? Be it there is an expansion or nothing at all planned, at least they will have gained my respect and that of many others.

Gaile Gray.6029:

If you’re considering how the GW2 Team can best hear your input about the game — such as what you’d like to see in the future, how things are working now, etc. — I personally don’t think a survey is necessary. Honestly and truly: These forums are a huge and very effective medium for communication. They are read daily by members of the team — probably more people than you think! — and the forums, as a whole, give us a much better view of what’s important to Guild Wars 2 players than most surveys would do.

Is that so? What happened here, then? Or should I start linking other places where you guys have had similar failures?

Now, with THAT said, I happen to agree with Gaile on this one. A big survey is a pain to set up and run properly, and right now I’m not so sure what the question should actually be. Yes, there’s an obvious question to be asked, but what IS that question exactly? How do you word it and the answers to make it understood by all and get a fair response?

If it’s not a matter of a few, direct choices, I think a survey would be a waste of time better spent doing other things. For now.

JBDanger.2603:

I think Arena Net needs to grow up and banish their non disclosure policy of what they’re working on. All it is is an excuse. A cop out so that they don’t have to deal with confrontation. I myself would gladly support them and invest in gems if i knew the game had a future, but why should I if after two years, we don’t know where the game is going?
Isn’t it time for them to swallow their pride an inform us of whats going on? Be it there is an expansion or nothing at all planned, at least they will have gained my respect and that of many others.

I’ve said it multiple times, I’d prepay for an expansion today and follow it up with $100 in gems right off the announcement. I don’t think I’m alone so what holds them back? I’d post the fact that I’d done so just to prove it isn’t all talk, and I’m only one of many that would jump at the same chance.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I appreciate the feedback. I just wonder how such a survey could work. Most surveys are not essay questions. They’re like this:

• Should we change [this thing]? Yes/No.

That seems unhelpful. First, things are seldom answered with just a yes or no answer. Instinct is to react, “Well, I need to know more about why you’re looking at that area,” or “That’s not as important as [these other things]” or “Yes, please change it [this way] and not [that other way].”

Or maybe you’re thinking:

• Which of these things should we focus on? [list]

And we all know, given we’re forum members, that those opinions — about priorities or changes — could number in the dozens. Nah, probably in the hundreds.

Maybe it’s an essay question. Maybe it’s “We’re looking for feedback on [this thing]” where you can provide your thoughts in detail. If that’s the case, may I introduce you to the CDIs?

You make good points, it’s not possible for any human being to read every thread. And certainly when their job is making a game — design, programming, art, writing, and all the other facets of development — reading the forums in large amounts could take them away from their job at a cost to the game.

But if 300 Anet Team members are reading the forums, even if lightly, it starts discussion. Heck, I’ve sent notes about threads to various teams, and I know just about every other person here has done the same. Like this: “I don’t work on [such-and-such], but I found [this linked thread] really interesting.” Or maybe, “This is for your team. I think we can support it by doing [our stuff] if you are going to work on this.”

So surveys? Maybe they’ll happen, I’m not sure. Could you outline your thoughts on how they’d look? Input on something topical? CDIs are great — are you participating? Have you made a suggestion there that we have one on a topic near and dear to your heart?

Please don’t see this as a “never happen” response. I’m mostly just asking questions, that’s all.

You’ve missed the vast majority of the purpose of most of the feedback since you posted and frankly all the attempts at placating through the “there there”approach has put me off. I’m going to take a break because we can’t get the answers we want regardless of which way we try to ask. Good luck and i hope at some point someone gets it and starts giving us real answers instead of patting us the head and sending us to the kiddie table.

Sorry Gaile, could you clarify on what the current approach actually is? Again, I may be entirely misreading the forums, but it seems that traits are far and away the most important, universally hated, and frequently posted about single issue on the general discussion board. The fact that we’ve heard nothing (apart from confirmation that the first 2,000 posts in the thread weren’t read) doesn’t seem to gel with the idea that the forum is a good form of developer/community interaction.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I appreciate the feedback. I just wonder how such a survey could work. Most surveys are not essay questions. They’re like this:

• Should we change [this thing]? Yes/No.

That seems unhelpful. First, things are seldom answered with just a yes or no answer. Instinct is to react, “Well, I need to know more about why you’re looking at that area,” or “That’s not as important as [these other things]” or “Yes, please change it [this way] and not [that other way].”

Or maybe you’re thinking:

• Which of these things should we focus on? [list]

And we all know, given we’re forum members, that those opinions — about priorities or changes — could number in the dozens. Nah, probably in the hundreds.

Maybe it’s an essay question. Maybe it’s “We’re looking for feedback on [this thing]” where you can provide your thoughts in detail. If that’s the case, may I introduce you to the CDIs?

You make good points, it’s not possible for any human being to read every thread. And certainly when their job is making a game — design, programming, art, writing, and all the other facets of development — reading the forums in large amounts could take them away from their job at a cost to the game.

But if 300 Anet Team members are reading the forums, even if lightly, it starts discussion. Heck, I’ve sent notes about threads to various teams, and I know just about every other person here has done the same. Like this: “I don’t work on [such-and-such], but I found [this linked thread] really interesting.” Or maybe, “This is for your team. I think we can support it by doing [our stuff] if you are going to work on this.”

So surveys? Maybe they’ll happen, I’m not sure. Could you outline your thoughts on how they’d look? Input on something topical? CDIs are great — are you participating? Have you made a suggestion there that we have one on a topic near and dear to your heart?

Please don’t see this as a “never happen” response. I’m mostly just asking questions, that’s all.

Why can’t the survey be something like
on a scale of 1-5 how happy are you with XXXX
out of these 5 things which was your most liked
out of these 5 things which was your least liked
please rate these 5 items in order of most liked to least liked
on a scale of 1-5 how would you rate your experience from levels 1-5, 5-10,10-15, etc
on a scale of 1-5 how would you rate the speed at which you gain skills, the speed at which you gain traits, the speed at which you unlock the ability to do XXXX
what things would you like added to the game out of these 5
what things would you like changed out of these 5
how is your overall satisfaction with XXXX

I think some of these could help you with interpreting what your metrics are telling you. Rather than telling everyone what someone thinks or wants the metrics to tell them.