Guild Wars 2

can we all agree that would be either achievement points, or “fashion”?

Since there is no other measureable increase in a player’s character’s strength gained by spending money on anything.

Spending Money REAL LIFE MONEY mind you, does not give you a higher chance of completing X content than any joe shmoe who hope in and doesn’t spend a dime on gems or what have you.

because the above is true, the measurement of success in game would be the amount of incredibly difficult items to obtain.

I meet a guy in game with legendaries. His sword, his off hand, and his back piece. all shiny and nice. He (she dunno which) switches weapon sets. Another Legendary.

I think kitten this guy has done some work in this game!

He then swaps out his current set for Astralaria.

At this point i’m thinking kitten ! wtf!? hes nuts! he bots! he farms 24/7 he tosses items in the mystic toilet and gets incredibly lucky!
oh sure you cant “buy Astralaria” but you sure as kitten kitten kitten!!! KITTEN! need 2400 gold for just ONE phase of the kitten thing!!

“nice you have the new axe too!?”

To this he says:

“not just 1, i made 2.”

i just cant anymore. i leave the fractal. that was like 40 minutes ago, im still standing here in LA trying to decide if I should just spam chat with my user name and pw and answer all the authentication emails.

I spent the better part of 2 years making just 1 legendary.

I’ve NEVER thought for a second that GW2 was “pay to win”

However when the ONLY Measurement of Success in game is the acquisition of rare and costly items, and you can BUY those items with REAL LIFE MONEY

Its pay to win. Its fashion wars. not stat wars. Everyone has the same stats. Not everyone can get the same items.

Want to know how I measure my success in game?

Did I have fun playing during that session? If I did, then that was a successful gaming session.

It does not matter if some person has more gold, shinies or AP because at the end of the day, we all play the same game. Although how we choose to play may be different.

So…..do you want them to reduce the grind on items or remove the rng or add some new, non-grindy progression or not allow gold-gems or were you asking input on what you consider the ‘measure of success in a game’ or did you want a discussion on what ‘pay to win’ means?

Confused, I am.

I don’t think you’ll get any agreement as to what success is. IRL success is measured in many ways: wealth, career, fame, respect, family, personal fulfilment.

I would like to think there’s a similarly hazy definition of success in Gw2.
Personally, no – I don’t measure my Gw2 success in either AP or fashion skins.

Yeah, I reject your premise, since success in this game is different for different people playing different gametypes.

Not only that, even if we were to accept your premise, calling it P2W falls flat since for it to be so you should only be able to buy the relevant items with money, and this game has gold to gems conversion.

That’s why I crafted 3 sets of ascended armor, 1 for each weight. Every weapon with duplicates of dagger and axe, and that is enough for me.

I don’t feel the need to grind or pull out the credit card to look good, and I can use the mystic toilet recipe to change the stats if I need to do so. Win win.

Nothing matters. Unless it’s done live, like a tournament, there’s simply no way of knowing that you were personally capable of achieving something. In short, anything can be bought by buying someone else’s account.

So you’re saying that exchanging real money to get cosmetics more quickly is pay-to-win? In a game with player versus player modes and raid/dungeon content? That has no subscription fee, and in which leveling is easy?

I measure my success based on how I feel at the end of each game session.

If I finish a session looking forward to the next and have achieved something I set out to, or done something I never managed to do before, then I’m happy.

As an example, yesterday I solo’d Proverninc Crypt mini-dungeon with my Elementalist for the first time after three years of playing. Felt good, then felt better again because right after two new players who had never been there before wanted to try and I was able to walk/help them through. I count that as a nice ‘two for one’ success.

I only play casually, which is why I’d never tried the Crypt solo before, in case you were wondering.

I spend RWC (Real World Currency) on the gemstore, mostly on outfits/keys/trans-charges – so I agree looks are a part of the ‘endgame’, but not the be all/end all.

What counts for me is plain old enjoyment and ‘personal’ achievements.

I have two Legendary Weapons, one Ascended Weapon, all the temple Armors and collected those over the course of three years by working for them at my own unhurried pace. I felt successful each and every time I got one and still fondly remember the way I got each and the good people I was playing with each time.

I like to think it is still ‘the people’ who really make the game for each other and are the real Mark of Success in the way they help/support each other.

Breeze

Methal.9045:

Measurement of Success in game … can we all agree that would be either achievement points, or “fashion”?

We cannot all agree to that. I don’t care how many achievement points you have or whether you have more rare items than I do.

Methal.9045:

Since there is no other measureable increase in a player’s character’s strength gained by spending money on anything.

Why does “success” have to be measurable? Why does my success depend on yours? At least in the PvE side, success is whatever one makes of it.

Methal.9045:

Spending Money REAL LIFE MONEY mind you, does not give you a higher chance of completing X content than any joe shmoe who hope in and doesn’t spend a dime on gems or what have you.

Exactly so.

Methal.9045:

because the above is true, the measurement of success in game would be the amount of incredibly difficult items to obtain.

how so? Doesn’t the above prove that even measuring success against others has to ignore:

• Random results (since that’s a measure of luck, not ‘success’)
• Anything that can be bought with coin, which include 80+% of the effort for old legendaries and 70+% of the new ones.

Methal.9045:

I meet a guy in game with legendaries. …
At this point i’m thinking kitten ! wtf!? hes nuts! he bots! he farms 24/7 he tosses items in the mystic toilet and gets incredibly lucky!
…“nice you have the new axe too!?”

To this he says: “not just 1, i made 2.”

Big whoop.

Methal.9045:

i just cant anymore.

So don’t take it. Stop comparing yourself to others and figure out what you like about the game.

Methal.9045:

I spent the better part of 2 years making just 1 legendary.

Gz. That’s about what it takes a lot of people (and many haven’t even made one yet).

Methal.9045:

I’ve NEVER thought for a second that GW2 was “pay to win”

Nothing that you have posted suggests anything different.

Methal.9045:

However when the ONLY Measurement of Success in game is the acquisition of rare and costly items, and you can BUY those items with REAL LIFE MONEY

Again, those aren’t the only ways to measure success and it’s not at all clear that “measuring success” is something that makes sense to do.

Methal.9045:

Its pay to win. Its fashion wars. not stat wars. Everyone has the same stats. Not everyone can get the same items.

Everyone can get the same items; it’s a matter of what one is willing to do for them, which is why acquisition is a really poor way to measure ‘success’ of anything other than how efficient one is in acquiring items.

tl;dr success in GW2 is whatever you want it to be. (I recommend trying to want it to be something other than who has the most shinies — that doesn’t seem to do much for you.)

Methal.9045:

can we all agree that would be either achievement points, or “fashion”?

Since there is no other measureable increase in a player’s character’s strength gained by spending money on anything.

Spending Money REAL LIFE MONEY mind you, does not give you a higher chance of completing X content than any joe shmoe who hope in and doesn’t spend a dime on gems or what have you.

because the above is true, the measurement of success in game would be the amount of incredibly difficult items to obtain.

I meet a guy in game with legendaries. His sword, his off hand, and his back piece. all shiny and nice. He (she dunno which) switches weapon sets. Another Legendary.

I think kitten this guy has done some work in this game!

He then swaps out his current set for Astralaria.

At this point i’m thinking kitten ! wtf!? hes nuts! he bots! he farms 24/7 he tosses items in the mystic toilet and gets incredibly lucky!
oh sure you cant “buy Astralaria” but you sure as kitten kitten kitten!!! KITTEN! need 2400 gold for just ONE phase of the kitten thing!!

“nice you have the new axe too!?”

To this he says:

“not just 1, i made 2.”

i just cant anymore. i leave the fractal. that was like 40 minutes ago, im still standing here in LA trying to decide if I should just spam chat with my user name and pw and answer all the authentication emails.

I spent the better part of 2 years making just 1 legendary.

I’ve NEVER thought for a second that GW2 was “pay to win”

However when the ONLY Measurement of Success in game is the acquisition of rare and costly items, and you can BUY those items with REAL LIFE MONEY

Its pay to win. Its fashion wars. not stat wars. Everyone has the same stats. Not everyone can get the same items.

So… what’s the complaint? That someone with more irl cash spent said irl cash and outright bought stuff ingame?

I’m not sure the fact that a player has multiple Legendaries it means they used cash to purchase them.

Some players have lots of earned-ingame Gold. Some players dedicate a lot of time to the game. Either of these (or both) can translate to multiple Legendaries.

i for one dont like any items or weapon that gives too much custom effect so never bothered to get any thing in legendary rariry, getting a full set of ascended armors on each profession type and its weapon is enough to say that it has been a succesfull gaming for me

Hmm,

Multiple legendaries. Pretty much all of the legendaries are ugly. So, if fashion is a measurement of success, and many legendaries can be bought with real money, does that make GW2 P2L (pay to lose)?

The only measurement of success in game is, did you have fun.

Ironically, I think your measurment of success TC is the worst possible approach as far as enjoyment goes (subjective opinion ofcorse).

There will always be someone who is better, richer, more attractive, smarter, etc.

In case of MMOs, unless you are part of the entitled 14-18 year old crowd (as in you get to game as much as you want and still get stuff done while mom and/or dad provide for you. not blaming, I was there years back) you are already at a disadvantage. Commitments just get bigger the older you get.

The question is never can you beat them all (though competition can be beneficial). It’s how you deal with your competition, always has been. If someone has a legendary, be happy for him/her and strive to achieve the same instead of automatically assuming they cheated.

It’s better to feel happy for someone else then corrupt yourself with envy or other negtive emotions. In the end, the other person won’t ever know, but you are the one sitting there feeling like kitten.

Telemin.7380:

Want to know how I measure my success in game?

Did I have fun playing during that session? If I did, then that was a successful gaming session.

It does not matter if some person has more gold, shinies or AP because at the end of the day, we all play the same game. Although how we choose to play may be different.

Couldn’t have said it better.

For these reasons, measurement of success in game cant be anything but achievement points.

Telemin.7380:

Want to know how I measure my success in game?

Did I have fun playing during that session? If I did, then that was a successful gaming session.

It does not matter if some person has more gold, shinies or AP because at the end of the day, we all play the same game. Although how we choose to play may be different.

I agree totally with this.

Some of us like roleplaying, which gives nothing but immersion within the world and friendship with like minded people. You can put a measurement on that.

Telemin.7380:

Want to know how I measure my success in game?

Did I have fun playing during that session? If I did, then that was a successful gaming session.

It does not matter if some person has more gold, shinies or AP because at the end of the day, we all play the same game. Although how we choose to play may be different.

I agree.

This game has a huge range of different activities and goals on offer, almost all of which are optional to some degree. So my approach is to decide which of those I want to go for and then do it. But it’s subject to change at any moment. I might be on my way to do part of the story and then I pass an event I haven’t done in ages, or I see something interesting or find myself wondering if I can climb something and before I know it an hour has gone past, I’m halfway across the map and I haven’t achieved what I was going for but I have done a bunch of other stuff and had fun doing it.

Sometimes my goals are to get skins and items I want. One of my long-term goals at the moment is to get the Bifrost, and I collect mini pets so I’m usually working on getting one of them. But I don’t care if someone else gets it first. It just means they started working on that particular goal sooner, or had more time to put towards it.

As long as I’m having fun with what I’m doing it doesn’t matter to me what other people are doing or what they have to show for it.

(Which isn’t to say I don’t like seeing what other people do with their characters. I love seeing interesting combinations of skins and dyes, I once saw a sylvari dressed to match the Bifrost and she looked amazing but I like them because of the end-result, not as a way to show off what you’ve done in-game or how much gold/cash you’ve spent.)

My success is did I have fun and if I was attempting to move forward on a goal, did I make progress on that goal? And I define progress as even getting just 1 mat to put towards it.

I don’t care how other players decided to work towards their goals. The guy who has a bunch of legendaries since he opened up his wallet, he worked hard or saved long enough in order to buy the gems to convert to the gold necessary to buy them. Maybe he had to forego getting a new game his buddies were getting to get the money needed. Maybe he had to give up something else like coffee from Starbucks every morning.

flarezi.9381:

For these reasons, measurement of success in game cant be anything but achievement points.

Achievement point are no sign of success, hell i have 18K ish and would probably be a hindrance in any raid/dungeon/boss simply because i rarely, ever PvE and haven’t tried most of them.

I measure it by how much kittening fun did i have today

I think success in an MMO in it’s core is how happy and content you are with what you’re doing. It can consist of AP and skins as OP stated but a lot of other stuff too. For me it’s about clearing challenges like raids and gearing my alts to provide more versatility for my team. For others accumulating wealth is the end game and some strive to be the best PvPer that ever was.

The OP equates success in the game with accumulating stuff. This reflects some folks’ approach to success in life. The difference is that some of the stuff that we gain in life, we actually need. GW2 accumulation is not about gaining necessities, it is about gaining bling. Some like that in life and games, others prefer just to have fun in games to escape the whole accumulation thing.

Pay-to-win is a term invented to apply to competitive games. The purchase of power allows players who spent real money for it a large advantage in the game. This allows them to more easily beat other players who didn’t spend that real money.

In those games, the competition is real. Players who don’t want to spend that money cannot avoid the competition. Well, they can only if they stop playing the game — or at least stop venturing into zones where competitive play is enabled.

In GW2, the competition is purely in the minds of certain players. They cannot force other players to compete. Any “victory” is simply a mental trick in which the player who wants to compete decides he “wins” because he has more/better stuff, whereas the other players may well be ignoring him and his stuff.

There are people who collect legendaries, and I’ve never felt like they’re “more successful” at GW2 than I am, because I don’t measure how successful my time in game is by how many legendaries I (don’t) have. Those people play differently than I do, and I probably wouldn’t enjoy playing their way.

I’m just here to have a good time. I’m not competing with anyone, unless I’m competing with myself. When/if I get around to building a legendary, it will feel like an accomplishment because of what I had to do for it, and how it represents a capstone over my previous weapons, not because other people don’t have one.

So every MMO is pay to win since you can buy gold in all of them, legal or not legal. I never spent money to buy gems to sell for gold, and yet I have 8 legendaries. There are people that are just good at playing the market place and don’t have to spend real money to get that far ahead.

Not to mention redefining pay to win to change it’s original meaning doesn’t really accomplish anything.

If your idea of success is one day owning a Ferrari, would you be discouraged and give up upon seeing some celebrity with a dozen of them?

Probably the most entertainment I’ve had in game thus far: Tarting up my alt Warrior in Noble Count duds to look like a dancer, dual-wielding The Moot (one skinned over a ghetto mace), and starting a city-wide dance party in Rata Sum.

The game is a sandbox, there is no winning or losing except for goals you set for yourself.

/themoreyouknow

Methal.9045:

can we all agree that would be either achievement points, or “fashion”?

Please tell me you’re kidding. This is the saddest thing I’ve read whole week.

You seem to be confusing belongings with success. "Why you got all these nice legendaries and ascended gear and all that? That’s played out!’

I hope you don’t go to people going “You didn’t farm your own eggs!” or “You didn’t build your own house” all the time.

Because that would be a terrible way to live. And a terrible way to play a game too.

If you want “success” or a way to lord over the peasants, may I recommend some Spvp or completing some harder content? If things in a video game occur that impact your self-esteem when nobody is even explicitly trying to compete with you or be mean to you, or sabotage you, then I recommend stepping away from the computer for an extended period of time.

Success is whatever we choose. Not what Anet chooses.
I’d suggest ignoring legendaries.
The required WvW makes them worthless to many now.
Watch their value and that of precursors bottom out, so anyone can buy them.

Telemin.7380:

Want to know how I measure my success in game?

Did I have fun playing during that session? If I did, then that was a successful gaming session.

It does not matter if some person has more gold, shinies or AP because at the end of the day, we all play the same game. Although how we choose to play may be different.

This. I don’t play games for “success”. I play games for fun.