Guild Wars 2

Like it or not (I don’t), we are all part of a larger community now thanks to the MegaServer. Wherever you go, there are tons more people around. It is a fact of any society that the more crowded it gets, the quicker tempers tend to flare. As such, it makes sense to do whatever we can to get along with our neighbors.

This is an appeal to be just a little bit more observant of the other players around you to avoid unnecessary tension. A couple of examples:

• Don’t be an Aggro Magnet. Simply running through the world, you pick up pursuers. Then if you happen to run past another player minding their own business, these monsters have a chance of disengaging from you and attacking them. With so many people packed into a zone, there are fewer “safe spots” to go AFK for a couple minutes. There is much greater risk nowadays of someone bringing monsters down upon you while you’re on the potty, or grabbing a pop from the fridge, or sorting your Inventory. Please do your best to steer clear of other players if you know there is a bad guy following you. If you realize you’ve put someone else in jeopardy, stop and help them. Then saying “Sorry…” accompanied by a sheepish /shrug could even make a friend, if that’s what you’re looking for.

• Not everybody wants help. Part of the fun of any game is beating an opponent all by yourself. Naturally, there are some bad guys that pretty much require teamwork to take them down. Help is appreciated. But don’t you enjoy a challenge now and then? Don’t you appreciate the opportunity to finish a tough battle without the Almighty Zerg charging in and finishing off your foe in a matter of seconds? All I am asking is that you look before you leap into the fray. If the player seems to be doing fine, leave them alone! If it looks like a close battle, it can be fun to stand back and watch. Perhaps throw in some healing spells, or step in to revive if he gets downed. But let the other player have a chance at the feeling of accomplishment that you would also enjoy from a good battle well fought. (EDIT: This goes especially for Skill Challenges, After all, they’re supposed to be a challenge!)

You may think this that is just a computer game, but it is also a social environment (especially now). Nothing is forcing you to be considerate of others, but most people will find it more enjoyable to avoid tension with other players. I am not saying you can’t run around and be as disruptive as you want, if that’s how you like to have fun. I am merely trying to bring this to the attention of all the non-trolls who aren’t used to having other players on the map, and may not realize how they may be affecting those people. Despite hiding behind cartoon avatars, those are real folks you are encountering. Treat them the way you would want to be treated. It would make the MegaServer a bit more tolerable.

Hamfast.8719:

Like it or not (I don’t), we are all part of a larger community now thanks to the MegaServer. Wherever you go, there are tons more people around. It is a fact of any society that the more crowded it gets, the quicker tempers tend to flare. As such, it makes sense to do whatever we can to get along with our neighbors.

This is an appeal to be just a little bit more observant of the other players around you to avoid unnecessary tension. A couple of examples:

• Don’t be an Aggro Magnet. Simply running through the world, you pick up pursuers. Then if you happen to run past another player minding their own business, these monsters have a chance of disengaging from you and attacking them. With so many people packed into a zone, there are fewer “safe spots” to go AFK for a couple minutes. There is much greater risk nowadays of someone bringing monsters down upon you while you’re on the potty, or grabbing a pop from the fridge, or sorting your Inventory. Please do your best to steer clear of other players if you know there is a bad guy following you. If you realize you’ve put someone else in jeopardy, stop and help them. Then saying “Sorry…” accompanied by a sheepish /shrug could even make a friend, if that’s what you’re looking for.

• Not everybody wants help. Part of the fun of any game is beating an opponent all by yourself. Naturally, there are some bad guys that pretty much require teamwork to take them down. Help is appreciated. But don’t you enjoy a challenge now and then? Don’t you appreciate the opportunity to finish a tough battle without the Almighty Zerg charging in and finishing off your foe in a matter of seconds? All I am asking is that you look before you leap into the fray. If the player seems to be doing fine, leave them alone! If it looks like a close battle, it can be fun to stand back and watch. Perhaps throw in some healing spells, or step in to revive if he gets downed. But let the other player have a chance at the feeling of accomplishment that you would also enjoy from a good battle well fought. (EDIT: This goes especially for Skill Challenges, After all, they’re supposed to be a challenge!)

You may think this that is just a computer game, but it is also a social environment (especially now). Nothing is forcing you to be considerate of others, but most people will find it more enjoyable to avoid tension with other players. I am not saying you can’t run around and be as disruptive as you want, if that’s how you like to have fun. I am merely trying to bring this to the attention of all the non-trolls who aren’t used to having other players on the map, and may not realize how they may be affecting those people. Despite hiding behind cartoon avatars, those are real folks you are encountering. Treat them the way you would want to be treated. It would make the MegaServer a bit more tolerable.

If either of your 2 bullet points ever had a chance of happening, I would love it. Sadly, they do not.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

If either of your 2 bullet points ever had a chance of happening, I would love it. Sadly, they do not.

Which is but one of the many gripes I have with the MegaServer.

I could live with it if they cut back about 50% of the population in most zones (it really depends on what zone you’re in… company is more appreciated in some zones than others) and if they totally removed the MegaServer from cities.

So for now, I can only appeal to my fellow players to help make the situation a wee bit more livable.

Hamfast.8719:

• Not everybody wants help..

(EDIT: This goes especially for Skill Challenges, After all, they’re supposed to be a challenge!)

Wait, you’re objecting to someone chiming in on Skill “Challenges?” The encounters where the NPC’s health is hugely inflated, but they have a hard time hurting players at all? Wow … each to his own, I guess. If the one doing the Skill Challenge is me, please do add in.

So any tips on how to tell the difference between someone who is struggling but really enjoying the challenge and wants to do it alone, and someone who would really appreciate a hand with a difficult fight before they go down?

So far, both before and after megaservers were added, I’ve seen more players complain about someone else not helping than complain that they did, so my inclination is to help if I see someone who looks like they need it and I assume in that situation either type of player is not going to have time to specify in chat.

Danikat.8537:

So any tips on how to tell the difference between someone who is struggling but really enjoying the challenge and wants to do it alone, and someone who would really appreciate a hand with a difficult fight before they go down?

I sit back and watch their health meters. It usually only takes a moment or two to determine if the player needs help based on that alone. In the close battles, it’s sort of like a moa race… the contest keeps you riveted to see how it will turn out. If near the end, the player looks like he may be getting the worst of it, that is where I might throw in some healing if I have it. And if I’m too late and he gets downed, I usually try to revive him and let him finish the job.

Actually, the incident that prompted this thread was neither of the situations I described above. I was using a medium level character and doing pretty well. I had an enemy one-on-one and he was on the verge of dying while I was still around half health. Then a high level warrior came running through and finished my opponent off in one swipe and continued off to wherever he was heading without ever breaking stride. I did all the work, and then BAM! It just seemed kind of callous and unthinking.

There are no absolutes here. No black and white that says whether or not it is a good time to step in and render assistance. Sometimes you will butt in where you aren’t wanted. Sometimes you will arrive with much-desired help too late. All I’m asking is to try to be more aware of other players’ situations.

Mega servers means no way to know which or when
a temple is starting. It also means good luck farming nodes.
Mega server = crap

Queen Kiearha.9873:

Mega servers means no way to know which or when
a temple is starting. It also means good luck farming nodes.
Mega server = crap

You didn’t read anything but the title did you?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wait, you’re objecting to someone chiming in on Skill “Challenges?”

Yes. It is supposed to challenge me. Some of them actually do provide a challenge. I personally like to do those solo, since many of them ostensibly tout themselves as a one-on-one contest of your ability. When someone jumps in, especially when they far overpower my opponent, I no longer feel challenged or victorious.

Perhaps that is part of my issue. If it is still a good fight even with help, that’s great! Maybe my gripe is when a level 80 godling does the work for me and makes me feel as if I barely contributed to my own challenge.

Danikat.8537:

Queen Kiearha.9873:

Mega servers means no way to know which or when
a temple is starting. It also means good luck farming nodes.
Mega server = crap

You didn’t read anything but the title did you?

LOL!

You see that all the time in any thread with the word “Mounts” in the title. The OP could be writing something against mounts, and somebody will invariably chime in and shout that there is no place in GW2 for mounts, and that the OP should go back to playing WoW if he wants them so much.

The dumbest thing anyone can ever say is “TL;DR” (Too Long; Didn’t Read). If you didn’t at least read the original post, then you are only showing your own ignorance by commenting on it.

With the implementation of Megaserver (altho it is a trend within the game that I’ve noticed over the past few months but especially now), if people are dying around you, say during a meta event or an event in Orr, please try to rez them. Jormag is a great example, I spend the majority of the 15 minutes or so of the event reviving others and it hasn’t affected the amount of loot I get, altho I see it also at the Maw where it does affect whether or not you get the Champ boss loot, not the shaky chest or big chest.
When running thru the world I do try to observe whether someone’s health during a skill challenge is going on, before helping.

I skip skill challenges if i already did them, but if i happen upon a fight going down in open world, I’m going to try to tag everything involved. Nothing personal, i just like loot. <3

All players should know to not AFK while still in game if they can help it and should not be angry if they return to find themselves dead or needing to repair their armor. That’s an inherent risk of going AFK and other players should not have to worry about running by an AFK player while running somewhere.

I try not to do #1 and I never do it intentionally, especially while on my level 80.

As for #2, sometimes the player jumping in is someone who would need help with the skill challenge or fight but is too shy/proud to ask for help on their own. So when they see someone else already doing it, they jump in. Because it’s help they didn’t have to ask for.

But yes, don’t jump in if you will trivialize the content without seeing if the player needs help.

Champions given the loot you’re probably out of luck on. People will jump on champions for the loot.

a week after mega came about, with all the trash talk, QQ and so much negativity in general, it has came to the point I log on invisible, have all possible forms of communication shut off.
There was a time I actually cared and tried to do what is right by other players. now their opinions are about as interesting to me as the last kitten I flush down the toilet.
For me the mega server has made this a solo game. If I see something I want to kill I no longer care if someone wants to solo it or not. If I want to attack I do. I only res on days it is needed for daily. I never expect anyone to res me.
Reason for that, I ressed someone once, only to have that person start shouting in map chat about being ressed and having additional armor damage.
I refuse to take time to ask someone. If they want/need help of any kind. I simply don’t care if they do. I found most of time to stop and ask someone is only a waste of my time anyway. Hearing constant complaints about doing something or not doing something, depending on who is there and what it is has become a nuisance.

If ppl want to solo go to a dungeon alone. Its not rocket science, you don’t own the world map. Your gaming is no more important than anyone else.

Oh my god, if I’m the one you stumble upon fighting ANYTHING, even a kitten slime, by all means, join in. I suck and will love you forever. XD

My ‘issue’ is with dailies… I usually use a certain type of mob to dodge or for condition removal… and they usually get killed by someone running by… who takes it upon themselves to kill the mob without a second thought. It’s obvious what I’m doing, as I’m just standing and dodging and my health is usually full, or I’m standing and healing to remove conditions. I don’t like the megaservers at all.

I generally tend to err on the side of helping unless the combatant has a very full health bar.

As to the dodging, yah. That was a pain on my leveling alt, but now that he’s 80 I just hop on my thief, go into some water in Kessex, and spam 5 on the spear (3 works too but then you have to reengage) until dodging’s done. Even mega servers don’t get people rushing to fight underwater!

I already do the first. Given that I have a policy of “if it hits me, it’s DEAD”, I don’t really tend to have a train of enemies chasing me, but if my path takes me past someone who is harvesting or just afk’ing, I will stop and kill enemies before they aggro onto the other party.

For skill challenges, I only intervene if it’s obvious that the player is overmatched. Just yesterday I was helping my girlfriend with a skill challenge in Diessa Plateau. After we finished and were about to move on, I noticed a level 19 Guardian coming in. (The Skill Challenge is level 23, and involves a Veteran + 3 adds.) I hung around and watched as the Guardian fought for a bit, but when it became obvious he would die without my aid, I intervened and helped him beat the Challenge. No words of thanks, but I wasn’t looking for any.

Re #1, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pick a “safe” spot to go AFK for a long period. Safe meaning somewhere with several friendly NPCs that doesn’t have associated dynamic events…or just use a Hall of Monuments Portal Stone for a potty break (utterly brilliant, not my idea, read that somewhere else in the forums).

Agreed with #2. I usually hang back while watching someone else attempt a skill challenge that I’ve already completed and if I see their health dropping too low in relation to the enemy’s health I’ll lend a hand. Sometimes I ask if someone needs help before they start if I know the challenge can be especially nasty (like the Corrupted Spike).

Only problem with the Portal Stone is that if you’ve built up stacks beforehand, it all disappears when you change maps. If you’re an experienced mapper though, there are safe spots to be found in just about all maps.

Hmm, forgot about the loss of stacks on map change, just goes to show how little I use on-kill stacking sigils…:-P

Standing near a Vista on the side of a mountain is usually safe (the ones that are underground, not so much).

To add to what the OP said if you’re in a low level zone and you’re downleveled, and you see other people around who aren’t, just use your 1 skill and leave something for them to get credit for the event too.

A good 80 can make it really hard for low level characters to get credit for events, or experience for kills. They need it more than you do.

Total agreement.

I cannot stand #1. I call them “Runners”. All they care about is running through the map to get map completion without care for anyone else they affect while doing so.

Example:
I’m fighting several enemies and see this player running toward me.
I ease up on my attacks just in case they want to get some tags in if they want for some loot and xp.
They keep running right past me and the previously unseen horde of 8+ enemies on their tail turns and aggroes on me and it turns into a fight for survival and pulling out all the skills I can to kill them all and try to rally and not die.

Several times I’ve finished the fight and turn around and there is the person standing nearby looking at me after having enjoyed the show. One even proceeded to /laugh once.

I’ve even run into a few who intentionally tag all possible enemies with a single shot while running to make sure they build up a bunch of minions following them to deliver unto an unsuspecting adventurer. The bonus to them is, when the enemies gradually hit their leashes and reset, when it eventually does get killed by someone else then I believe they get the xp for tagging it.

Makes me quite disappointed.

Players should not be able to trivialize the game world and just run through it. At the very least, all enemies should have a very quick initial attack when they aggro on a player so the player is immediately put into combat and move at a slow speed. Ideally it should be a cripple or root attack. Again, players should not be permitted to just run through the entire map without ever having to enter combat as this just trivializes enemy encounters and encourages “skipping” in open world and dungeons alike.
Nothing should be skippable.

Nage.1520:

To add to what the OP said if you’re in a low level zone and you’re downleveled, and you see other people around who aren’t, just use your 1 skill and leave something for them to get credit for the event too.

A good 80 can make it really hard for low level characters to get credit for events, or experience for kills. They need it more than you do.

Agreed.
My standard down-leveled courtesy is:

• Let lowbies attack first
• Use skill 1 only and turn off auto-attack
• Use a low level blue from my loot to fight with while down-leveled
• Once in a while I might use a low damage aoe skill when there are several enemies in a group so I tag them all without killing them.

I think that the OP should maybe, probably, check out the following games that can easily be found on steam. What you expect or wish to happen simply goes against the nature of the multiplayer component (mmo = massive multiplayer online) of the game.

If you preferred to play in desolate places before on your own, that’s perfectly fine. But that was considered by many more players as a flaw of the game and goes against everything that this game is and was described as. You are welcome to try out other MMO’s, but you will only find the same issues you have with GW2 while receiving as good as no more share of the loot pie.

StinVec.3621:

Nage.1520:

To add to what the OP said if you’re in a low level zone and you’re downleveled, and you see other people around who aren’t, just use your 1 skill and leave something for them to get credit for the event too.

A good 80 can make it really hard for low level characters to get credit for events, or experience for kills. They need it more than you do.

Agreed.
My standard down-leveled courtesy is:

• Let lowbies attack first
• Use skill 1 only and turn off auto-attack
• Use a low level blue from my loot to fight with while down-leveled
• Once in a while I might use a low damage aoe skill when there are several enemies in a group so I tag them all without killing them.

Never thought about turning off auto attack, that’s a good thought. Thanks!

as I’m now doing map exploration again (for the hell of it) I’m running through a lot of zones where I’m downleveled but obviously stronger than any mob there.
I generally make a point of avoiding aggro when I can (easy on my thief, not too kitten my necro).

I don’t make a habit of aggroing onto ppl but have on occasion drawn a couple of mobs to ore nodes or trees where a couple of lowbies are harvesting. I’ll make a point of taking down the mobs first before taking my turn harvesting so the lowbies don’t catch the aggro and end up getting attacked while harvesting.

I also make a point of heading towards any downed or defeated players to res them. In the case of downed but not defeated players who are trying to rally, I’ll take down the mob so they rally.

When lowbies ask for help on mapchat and I’m not doing anything, I usually pop down to help. An example was a new player who had a lvl 17 guardian that wanted help in a personal story they were stuck on because they were somewhat under equipped and short a couple of levels to take it on. Since I wasn’t doing anything pressing, I asked for a party invite and proceeded to slaughter hordes of dredge for him to get him through the quest. They’re dredge after all, and there are way too many of them as it is :p

At skill challenges, unless I’m the one initiating it, I usually don’t charge in and blitz it. Lowbies only learn how to play by taking on these challenges. If they’re getting to the end, I might shoot a couple of arrows at the challenge mob to get my explo in, but if not, I’ll just reinitiated and take it down again myself.

If it’s not out of your way, why not help others?

Trinibaje.7683:

My ‘issue’ is with dailies… I usually use a certain type of mob to dodge or for condition removal… and they usually get killed by someone running by… who takes it upon themselves to kill the mob without a second thought. It’s obvious what I’m doing, as I’m just standing and dodging and my health is usually full, or I’m standing and healing to remove conditions. I don’t like the megaservers at all.

Dodging secret: try dodging catapults. There’s lots of them scattered about Gendarran Fields and Harathi Hinterlands. Sure, people can destroy your catapults too, but that happens far less often. And you can find some with no enemies around… I used to enjoy doing my Daily Dodger in my Town Clothes!

Condition Removal used to be easier. I could stand in front of any peewee Drake that breathes poison, and get a bunch of stacks to wipe out. But since they pretty much wiped out Traits in the lower level areas, the Drakes got a nerf to compensate, and they barely stack any poison at all now. I had to change my strategy to find Veterans for that. And yeah, people do come to my “rescue” a lot even though it’s obvious I’m just standing there letting myself be poisoned.

Rangersix.1754:

I think that the OP should maybe, probably, check out the following games that can easily be found on steam. What you expect or wish to happen simply goes against the nature of the multiplayer component (mmo = massive multiplayer online) of the game.

If you preferred to play in desolate places before on your own, that’s perfectly fine. But that was considered by many more players as a flaw of the game and goes against everything that this game is and was described as. You are welcome to try out other MMO’s, but you will only find the same issues you have with GW2 while receiving as good as no more share of the loot pie.

I’m not looking for desolation. But I do think certain areas are far more populated than they need to be. It still needs adjustment on a per-zone basis. The starter areas don’t need to be packed wall-to-wall… there is no huge outcry that those areas are too tough for individuals or smaller groups. In fact, it is preferable when starting out to do things mostly on your own so that you can better learn. And I am still convinced that having the MegaServer in TOWNS is a huge mistake on many levels.
________________________________________

I am so tired of people pointing out that “MMO” means “Massively Multiplayer Online”. “MMO” is a term created by the industry simply to let people know that the computer game they are buying is populated by other players as well, and not a completely man vs. computer experience. It is by no means intended as a dictate that we must work together as a group. The REAL world has far more people than any game world, but that does that mean it is always preferable to team up with other people to do something?

And then there is the OTHER half that people tend to selectively forget: Guild Wars 2 is (supposedly) characterized as an MMO RPG (Role-Playing Game). Does that mean everyone must Role Play? Of course not! The game does NOT give us Role-Playing. It only provides an environment in which Role-Playing can be done. But the players bring the Role Playing aspect.

I did NOT forget that the game is Multiplayer. I don’t need to be reminded. If this were a single player game, I would not need to make a post about how people interact with one another, would I? But in a game, we hide behind Toons that have few real-world consequences to their actions. This can be a good thing, since through our characters we can vent and wreck things, and do all the stuff we can’t do in real life to let off steam. I am just trying to remind people that they are still in a community of real people when they log in to an MMO. And while consequences are minimal, your actions can still affect others.

Hmmm. I’ve never personally ran into issues with point 2. Of course, generally when I elect to jump in, it’s usually an event or the person is obviously losing. Otherwise, I typically mind my own business.

I have had issues with point 1 though, especially in Orr and other higher maps while gathering. People run up, gather the node, and run off, leaving their aggro on me and anyone else in the vicinity because all they care about is harvesting the materials as quickly as they can. Sometimes, it makes me miss my personal instances from GW1. Other times, I just roll me eyes, kill the kitten and carry on.

A great place to do condition removal is at world bosses. As an example, I was doing Fire Shaman the other night with my necro and there were quite a few people there. I switched to the Well that removes conditions and replaces with a boon. 3 casts of that and boom condition remover done. Any class with party wide condition removal can do this quite easily. Ranger probably has it easiest after necromancers since the healing spring cleanses with pulses.

For dodges, just fight dredge oscillators. Their ranged attack is a long range knockdown that is much like Warrior off hand mace #5 skill. If you time it right, that’s at least 5-8 dodges right there. Every time EVADED pops up, it counts as one dodge. Dredges are easy to find without worrying about ppl popping them.

Regarding #1, I can identify. Yesterday I was in Malchor’s Leap doing the Eastern Colonnade event that had been leveled up a bit due to traffic. I actually like this event and find it fun to solo. However, there was a veteran risen abomination hanging out there and those can be a bit of a pain when you are trying to destroy the catapults, kill the servants trying to rebuild the catapults, and revive the engineers. People kept running through the area dragging aggro. Didn’t get me killed, but I had to retreat a couple of times. It actually made it more fun because it added a bit of challenge. About the 3rd time folks came through, they stopped and killed a few undead because they realized they were dragging aggro onto me. That was very courteous.

I would disagree a bit with your point #2 though. People joining in on whatever you are doing in the open world is just part of the game. Some people joining in on a skill challenge may need that skill point themselves and not want to wait and solo it after you are finished. Or they may just enjoy doing that challenge and want to repeat it themselves. The “it’s an MMO” argument is overdone, but having other people join in on your play is just part of the game.

As far as point one, I use to do this on purpose to afk people when I wanted to get mobs off myself.

Moving on to point two, If I want the easy loot I’m going to attack the mob.

Hell yeah man couldn’t say it any better :P

My goto enemies for Daily Dodger are Wurms (adult ones) and Earth Elementals (the ones that spam the crippling earth skill). Wurm boulders count as two attacks, which add up quickly and are easy to see coming. You can dodge multiple times through the Earth Elemental lines for multiple evades; if you aggro up enough Elementals at once, you can even complete the daily in just 2 dodges!

Also, if Crab Toss is the Daily Activity, that’s a SUPER easy way to get dodges. Just use Skill 3 and dash through the rolling Veteran Karkas for 4 – 5 evades each time.

For Condition Remover, I seek out enemies that inflict multiple stacks at a time. Bears are a really good choice; their maul attack inflicts 4 stacks of Bleeding, and they like to use it as their opening move. Aggro up 5 Bears, then stand still and let them all Maul you at once. “Shake It Off!” and you’re done. XD

Barracudas and Sharks also stack lots of Bleeding if you’re underwater.

If you want a fun challenge, try Queens Gauntlet and/or solo dungeon bosses for fun. Or you can play some spvp tournament or hunt down skilled roamers in wvw. Skill challenges aren’t really challenges.

I just use the plants near where the Shatterer spawns for dodger, if I don’t get it from dungeons or something.

Hamfast.8719:

Danikat.8537:

So any tips on how to tell the difference between someone who is struggling but really enjoying the challenge and wants to do it alone, and someone who would really appreciate a hand with a difficult fight before they go down?

I sit back and watch their health meters. It usually only takes a moment or two to determine if the player needs help based on that alone. In the close battles, it’s sort of like a moa race… the contest keeps you riveted to see how it will turn out. If near the end, the player looks like he may be getting the worst of it, that is where I might throw in some healing if I have it. And if I’m too late and he gets downed, I usually try to revive him and let him finish the job.

Actually, the incident that prompted this thread was neither of the situations I described above. I was using a medium level character and doing pretty well. I had an enemy one-on-one and he was on the verge of dying while I was still around half health. Then a high level warrior came running through and finished my opponent off in one swipe and continued off to wherever he was heading without ever breaking stride. I did all the work, and then BAM! It just seemed kind of callous and unthinking.

There are no absolutes here. No black and white that says whether or not it is a good time to step in and render assistance. Sometimes you will butt in where you aren’t wanted. Sometimes you will arrive with much-desired help too late. All I’m asking is to try to be more aware of other players’ situations.

Keep in mind that enemies and monsters in the open world are free for all to attack. Why should I sit around and let someone else kill everything? I’m going to go in and get my tags, as well as any potential loot drops. This is especially true if the target is a Champ. If someone gets mad that helped, so be it.