Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to make sure everyone was aware of what is going on with Melandru runes and the effect they have on fear, since everyone seems to be having such a hard time with fear.

I am all for balance, but I think Anet may want to review how ALL the stun duration effects are working on fear, and not just attack the ones that everyone is complaining about.

By the way. Sigil of Paralyzation still works on Daze, and that isn’t a stun.

Have you reported it as a bug because thats clearly what it is?

Aw, the current OP class has a counter to one of its broken game mechanics. Hopefully it doesnt get fixed until some point after necro receives a heavy handed nerf.

you again? seriously? give it up already nobody but you cares.

It’s not broken. Just do simple maths:

1,75 sec fear duration * 0,75 (-25% condition duration) =1,3125 sec

1,3125 sec * 0,75 (-25% stun duration) = 0,98 sec

Guys where have u been in maths at school??

Rennoko, the math is not correct:

Basis:
1) The duration of the conditions are rounded to the nearest quarter of a second.
2) The damage only ticks on full seconds!

Math (Attached):

If the effective Melandru reduction is 25% then Reaper’s Mask Fear will:
- be active for 1,25s @150x, 174x and 175x – ticking damage, 1 time!

If the effective Melandru reduction is 50% then Reaper’s Mask Fear will:
- be active for 0,75s @150x, 174x – not taking damage!
- be active for 1s @175x – ticking damage, 1 time!

So imho, the Rune is in fact adding +25% to the fear than it should! Fear is not stun!

Forestnator.6298:

It’s not broken. Just do simple maths:

1,75 sec fear duration * 0,75 (-25% condition duration) =1,3125 sec

1,3125 sec * 0,75 (-25% stun duration) = 0,98 sec

Guys where have u been in maths at school??

You realize this was the point of the post and the video right?

The reason the sigil was so problematic before the patch was because it would allow you to tack an extra 15% onto the end of any fear, no matter what duration you had.

Every condition in this game works off an additive system for increased and decreased duration, however the stun duration effects are always a multiplier.

The mechanic should be the same across all the effects. It shouldn’t get changed in the one instance it works in favor of a skill, but left in place to counter that skill. The reduction effects shouldn’t counter the skill if the increase effects are not allowed to work on it.

And I don’t care about this in a larger sense of balance and fear…. to the above on crying about nerfs. I am going to run into one person in a thousand in WvW using this setup, and it hardly matters to me from that perspective. I have a problem with the fact the mechanic isn’t applied across the board.

EDIT:

And to be clear, your math is not correct based on how condition duration interact with fear, unless something has changed post patch.

You do not take 1.75 second and multiply by 0.75 to get a 25% reduction. Condition duration is additive (or used to be last patch), while stun duration was a multiplier.

So If I have a plus 75% duration, and you have used minus 25% duration from conditions, the fear lasts 1.5 seconds. There is no way to turn 1.5 seconds into less than one second using a 0.75 multiplier.

Having tested against conditions earlier, they are still additive.

At some point along the way, a multiplier here or a factor is geting added in twice, and it needs to be corrected or clarified.

The fact remains that anet needs to decide if fears/dazes are stuns or not. If not, then stun breaks and stun durations (positive or negative) should not affect them. Something is wrong when sigils and runes become the balancing mechanism for certain types of skills.

Dasboba.1652:

The fact remains that anet needs to decide if fears/dazes are stuns or not. If not, then stun breaks and stun durations (positive or negative) should not affect them. Something is wrong when sigils and runes become the balancing mechanism for certain types of skills.

This I completely agree…

1st) There shouldn’t be a list of effects with the same name of 1 effect. (stun)
2nd) They should rename all Stun (list of effects) as Control. Instead of Stun Breaker, it should be Control breaker. (Or any other name similar).
3rd) They should fix the ones intended to work only on stun, and those working on all control effects.

Rennoko.5731:

Forestnator.6298:

It’s not broken. Just do simple maths:

1,75 sec fear duration * 0,75 (-25% condition duration) =1,3125 sec

1,3125 sec * 0,75 (-25% stun duration) = 0,98 sec

Guys where have u been in maths at school??

You realize this was the point of the post and the video right?

The reason the sigil was so problematic before the patch was because it would allow you to tack an extra 15% onto the end of any fear, no matter what duration you had.

Every condition in this game works off an additive system for increased and decreased duration, however the stun duration effects are always a multiplier.

The mechanic should be the same across all the effects. It shouldn’t get changed in the one instance it works in favor of a skill, but left in place to counter that skill. The reduction effects shouldn’t counter the skill if the increase effects are not allowed to work on it.

And I don’t care about this in a larger sense of balance and fear…. to the above on crying about nerfs. I am going to run into one person in a thousand in WvW using this setup, and it hardly matters to me from that perspective. I have a problem with the fact the mechanic isn’t applied across the board.

Yes.

Rennoko.5731:

EDIT:

And to be clear, your math is not correct based on how condition duration interact with fear, unless something has changed post patch.

You do not take 1.75 second and multiply by 0.75 to get a 25% reduction. Condition duration is additive (or used to be last patch), while stun duration was a multiplier.

So If I have a plus 75% duration, and you have used minus 25% duration from conditions, the fear lasts 1.5 seconds. There is no way to turn 1.5 seconds into less than one second using a 0.75 multiplier.

Having tested against conditions earlier, they are still additive.

At some point along the way, a multiplier here or a factor is geting added in twice, and it needs to be corrected or clarified.

Every condition reduction was multiplier pre patch.

But the new condition reductions like warriors berserker stance aren’t. They are additive. Check out buff food with condition reduction – it works the same way melandru runes do. So yes we do have problem. There are new reductions additive and old reductions multiplier. That’s kitten indeed.

Forestnator.6298:

Every condition reduction was multiplier pre patch.

But the new condition reductions like warriors berserker stance aren’t. They are additive. Check out buff food with condition reduction – it works the same way melandru runes do. So yes we do have problem. There are new reductions additive and old reductions multiplier. That’s kitten indeed.

All conditions pre-patch, and what testing I have done post patch are still additive. Meaning it takes a value of 1, adds your increased duration as a decimal, and subtracts their decreased duration as a decimal, then multiplies that sum by the base duration of the skill.

Specificailly for fear, stun increases pre-patch however were accounted for at a different time, and presumably stun decreases as well. After it determined the base value times the multiplier (from condition duration increases and decreases only), it would then multiply a second time by the increase/decrease from the stun duration. This was allowing for the problematic 3.45 second fear from DS 3, which had a base close range fear of only 1.5 seconds. That is now fixed and maxes out at 3 seconds.

I am not familiar with warriors, so I cannot comment on that.

There are two basic things going on here:

1. Stun duration decreases still effect/reduce fear. This is an active design decision as far as I can tell. I don’t find it particularly reasonable, because we have no way to counter that now, and unlike condition duration food, there is no counterbalance to Melandru anymore since the sigil is no longer functional. I would rather the effects be consistent, and balance the problems with fear in other ways that don’t substantially encourage everyone to run Melandru.

2. The stun duration reduction from Melandru is reducing fear more than stated, and potentially intended. This is where I think there is a bug, because the forumula should have been : Condition plus and minus adjusted duration, times the fear base duration, then multiplied by the stun reduction component. Currently, based on this formula, the stun reduction component for Melandru is 33%, not 25%. (in the testing I did).

That is how the sigil used to work, and how in all fairness the stun reduction should work on fear, if Anet has decided to allow stun durations to contine to hurt fear, but not help it.

Lol 3rd page and no comment from a Dev. yet?

Have you tested against chill and immobilize as well?

Watching this video reminds me of the teq meta event, everyone starts running away and I’m the only person still standing there attacking

Khal Drogo.9631:

Have you tested against chill and immobilize as well?

I did a test against Cripple (chill and immob work the same way) pre-patch, and I don’t believe the mechanics have changed. Those effects work like normal conditions, in that increased duration and decreased duration are summed, and then multiplied by your base duration.

This is isolated to the stun reduction effect, which functions differently.

But if you are curious, here is the testing on heavy cripple reductions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLexyzHyeO4

Tricare.2946:

Lol 3rd page and no comment from a Dev. yet?

You see I realized my mistake too late on this one. Unless you play a condition necro or a warrior who uses fear my exclusively, you really don’t care about this bug, and it can only help you. I guarantee you are crazy to be playing in Spvp tournaments against double necro teams without these runes equipped, and I am sure those people don’t want to see this fixed either. Maybe we can just consider it an odd application of a necro balancing technique?

I would guess this will remain unchanged, as the voice of those that are effected by it is going to be dwarfed by those who want to see it remain broken.

This sheet’s weak. Only fix the sigil but not the rune.

Anet, finish what you started. You decided that stun duration =/= fear duration. Clearly, you’ve missed some spots.

There is the possibility the game rounds off to the nearest quarter.

1 second reduced by 50% is .5 seconds and no tick. (already rounded off to the nearest quarter)

1.25 reduced by 50% is .75 and no tick (again, already rounded off)

1.75 reduced by 50% is .875 which is rounded off to 1 sec and they get a tick.

Deamhan.9538:

There is the possibility the game rounds off to the nearest quarter.

Nah, previous testing has shown it to be extremely precise for additive results. I.e. +99% fear will not get you a 2nd tick of terror damage outside of the condition ticker already being started.

This is just sloppy band-aid balancing by Anet right now it looks like, and the seams are showing embarrassingly. Whack-a-mole style on individual skills, sigils, etc, something they are supposed to be against.

I really don’t mind that people can spec to deal with my current build. But if they nerf Necros, this should get changed too.

By the way Anet, Thanks for watching the video and fixing the bug:

•Rune of Melandru: Fear duration is now only reduced once by this rune set. The negative stun duration bonus no longer reduces incoming fear duration. This is also true for food consumables that offer a negative stun duration bonus.

Rennoko.5731:

By the way Anet, Thanks for watching the video and fixing the bug:

•Rune of Melandru: Fear duration is now only reduced once by this rune set. The negative stun duration bonus no longer reduces incoming fear duration. This is also true for food consumables that offer a negative stun duration bonus.

Lol well good work if they did watch your videos and corrected the game.

It’s nice to know people still do hard tests to verify inconsistencies instead of wild accusations

GG Rennoko wall of text on forums is paying off. Get some clothes on btw.

JaNordy.6149:

GG Rennoko wall of text on forums is paying off. Get some clothes on btw.

Disregard that last part.