Guild Wars 2

I have realised through WVW and instances are geared predominately to a ranged system. Allow me to explain.

Before I begin on this, allow me to explain that I understand that the game is designed around swapping weapons. I get that and am for the most part happy to comply. It’s in the execution of this that I have the issue.

It is almost always better to go ranged. There are very few situations in which going melee in WVW is beneficial. When ranged and AOE abilities often have short cool-downs and no resource system, there is just a constant spam that makes it impracticable to melee, both from a damage point of view and a “attacking defences” standpoint.I am not saying here that you can’t melee, it is possible, It even works but the high risk/high reward of melee is far outweighed by the amount of ranged cc and damage coming at you every time you go in. The often lengthy run back makes this even more dangerous.

It’s a similar system in instances, the vast majority of damage is melee, I find myself running out to heal or just staying out in ranged because the damage I take is so much less than the close combat damage.

Again, melee is possible and in certain situations viable. When ranged there is very very few cases where they have to go melee, where melee have to go ranged most of the time to remain alive. This is my big problem, there is no equal standing, they are not even close at the moment.

Indeed, I can sit back and spam AoE on shortbow never running out of initiative and staying alive the entire time, melee is a joke in comparison, only reason I didn’t even bother bringing it up in my thread. It’s so obvious that everything favors range.

Even cavemen knew it was smarter to chuck spears at mammoths rather than run in and and face the things head on.

Ranged makes more sense for just about any situation.

I am a melee warrior on the other hand and Im not there for DPS. Im there to keep the people around me alive. I utilize 6 heals to do it and wear vit/toughness/ heal gear.

I almost never range – but I am stubborn! It can be done Are you willing to do what it takes to do it though? I can honestly say my DPS is not even viable at this point.. but I can stay up for a long long time.

Melee is seriously kittened in WvWvW because everyone is playing ranged so if you go in that close you get focus fired because you are the only one. That is a self perpetuating problem to which there is no solution, it happens in any open world PvP scenario.

In PvE I don’t have any problem with Melee. It does much more damage and is superior as long as you know how to dodge and apply conditions. The only instance it becomes a problem is when you have multiple enemies focusing on you or if the enemies do all AOE damage. The multiple enemies thing is also just related to your class (mine is thief), classes with strong Melee AOE like warrior wouldn’t have nearly as much of a problem.

Rukia.4802:

NyghtProwler.9386:

Even cavemen knew it was smarter to chuck spears at mammoths rather than run in and and face the things head on.

Ranged makes more sense for just about any situation.

I am a melee warrior on the other hand and Im not there for DPS. Im there to keep the people around me alive. I utilize 6 heals to do it and wear vit/toughness/ heal gear.

I almost never range – but I am stubborn! It can be done Are you willing to do what it takes to do it though? I can honestly say my DPS is not even viable at this point.. but I can stay up for a long long time.

Yeah let me just throw on some plate, shield and sword and start throwing down banners on my thief bro. I can’t do that, not to mention vit and toughness is useless on a thief you still die in a hit.

I love when idiots bring up real life to compare to a game in fantasy setting….

It is a valid comparison though, the game quite reflects real life to some extent. Range is better for the same reasons.

Rukia.4802:

I love when idiots bring up real life to compare to a game in fantasy setting….

He ’s making a point and you insult him? You re the idiot.

Since when “fantasy games” shouldn’t make sense?

Rukia.4802:

Yeah let me just throw on some plate, shield and sword and start throwing down banners on my thief bro. I can’t do that, not to mention vit and toughness is useless on a thief you still die in a hit.

I love when idiots bring up real life to compare to a game in fantasy setting….

I was simply asking if people would DO what it took for their class to survive if they want to fight in close, like I did with my warrior. Is it much more challenging? Yes. Is it impossible? No.

The fact of the matter is there are a lot of people out there that are being bullheads about it. For example – WoW rogues playing thieves in Gw2 are wondering why the heck they cannot just safely position themselves behind a mob and mindlessly spam all their DPS abilites doing tons of damage up close without consequences.

Break out of your preconceived “class” restrictions from other games and play this game to its fullest. In the course of a day I change weapon setups out at least 3-4 times, as well as major trait setups.

While in my current weapon setup during a fight I am swaping weapons on cooldown to maximize effects from swaping.

I was in a dungeon the other night as some mesmer was like " I don’t care about fight instructions dude… im staff AoE… I don’t need to attack a target"

I thought wow – 1 staff? thats all you use those 5 skills eh? Thats a shame.

edit and why was he doing that? My best guess is he thought a mesmer was a caster and casters use staves and so he must use one because that is what casters “should” use.

Think of seeing Gandalf rushing into a battle with a sword – get the crap out of your heads the other games have pre-programmed you to be used to! You might be a stubborn guy and say “NO! I Prefer to use ONLY staves!” Fine – then you live with the fact that you are weaker than someone that is willing to drop that staff and set up another weapon or tweak major traits between pulls to utilize CC or something else that wins the fight.

This is why modern military forces don’t rush in with swords anymore lol. It is suicide.

Melee atm in WvW is a complete joke tbh,

And the biggest joke of all is Guardian, because we don’t have a good ranged weapon, lol

Re-rolling from a lvl80 Guardian to a Warr at the mo, so at least then I can use a Gun or a Bow.

JazzyJay.1367:

This is why modern military forces don’t rush in with swords anymore lol. It is suicide.

In truth swords were never that popular of a warfare weapon, they really are just overplayed and overrepresented for various reasons (I guess that the fact they’re cross-shaped didn’t help either). Pole weapons were cheaper to make, easier to use, safer and more to the point. You could raise a levy and give them some cheap spears and still get some damage done. Swords were more of a nobility weapon, more expensive, needed training, and even if nobility made up a huge portion in medieval armies, they still had plenty of other preferred weapon choices for warfare, especially in the late Middle Ages/Renaissance.

I just wanted to throw in my two cents that Melee if at a severe dis-advantage in all fights. Would this be true in real life? YES. However, this is a game. People play fantasy games to, among other things, swing swords and use shields.

I’m not sure what the solution to this is, but it certainly feels broken to me.

(edit for spelling)

oaken.6382:

I just wanted to throw in my two cents that Melee if at a severe dis-advantage in all fights. Would this be true in real life? YES. However, this is a game. People play fantasy games to, among other things, swing swords and use shields.

I’m not sure what the solution to this is, but it certainly feels broken to me.

(edit for spelling)

There is no solution, defending a point at range will always be advantageous. It’s not easy to break through archers/artillery to attack a position at melee. Range is more strategically efficient, melee is not. Everyone can bring a ranged weapon or use artillery either way. Melee is useful for combat on the field, and melee generally does more damage than range.

Eochaidh.4106:

oaken.6382:

I just wanted to throw in my two cents that Melee if at a severe dis-advantage in all fights. Would this be true in real life? YES. However, this is a game. People play fantasy games to, among other things, swing swords and use shields.

I’m not sure what the solution to this is, but it certainly feels broken to me.

(edit for spelling)

There is no solution, defending a point at range will always be advantageous. It’s not easy to break through archers/artillery to attack a position at melee. Range is more strategically efficient, melee is not. Everyone can bring a ranged weapon or use artillery either way. Melee is useful for combat on the field, and melee generally does more damage than range.

So, your solution to melee being ineffective in these situations is: “Go ranged!”???

I guess I can understand that, I have two weapon sets for a reason. Just feels kinda lame to roll a melee class just to have to go ranged anyway. Plus, my guardian ranged skills are super limited and suck. I guess I could run around and play support.

Ever stop to think Melee is meant to be used for flanking tactics? Just sayin’.

Ranged players hold a position, melee take an area by suprise.

Of course, if you’re fighting a fort of enemies, don’t bother, you’ll be shot down before you can say “Savage Leap.” Heh. But that’s why you have two weapon options, my dear WvWvW’ers.

Melee sucks in mass pvp even when you have healers behind you and enemy casters have long casts. How to balance it out without those two, I have no idea. Even stuff like 5 second immunity every 15 seconds would still end up with you being alone in the group of other players that now have nice target in range and there are no dedicated healers to save you from incoming focused damage from 10 sources.

oaken.6382:

Eochaidh.4106:

oaken.6382:

I just wanted to throw in my two cents that Melee if at a severe dis-advantage in all fights. Would this be true in real life? YES. However, this is a game. People play fantasy games to, among other things, swing swords and use shields.

I’m not sure what the solution to this is, but it certainly feels broken to me.

(edit for spelling)

There is no solution, defending a point at range will always be advantageous. It’s not easy to break through archers/artillery to attack a position at melee. Range is more strategically efficient, melee is not. Everyone can bring a ranged weapon or use artillery either way. Melee is useful for combat on the field, and melee generally does more damage than range.

So, your solution to melee being ineffective in these situations is: “Go ranged!”???

I guess I can understand that, I have two weapon sets for a reason. Just feels kinda lame to roll a melee class just to have to go ranged anyway. Plus, my guardian ranged skills are super limited and suck. I guess I could run around and play support.

I am a warrior Longbow/Greatsword. I normally use longbow to defend from the walls and once the attack loses organization I go down and engage on melee. I also use it a lot while on the field. I am actually more melee-oriented than range. You can get more melee action in WvW if you look in the right places. You really can’t expect to jump into a raging army all by yourself and not get killed in the process, caution and reason is necessary in all situations before hack n’ slash. :p

Melee is also very useful when attacking if you are numerous enough to overcome archers. And you can speed up the process of capturing the hold by engaging the archers on melee, since they will no longer have an advantage. Melee is also a lot more helpful at destroying gates than range (although siege weaponry really is the best option here).

Amiron.1067:

Ever stop to think Melee is meant to be used for flanking tactics? Just sayin’.

Ranged players hold a position, melee take an area by suprise.

Of course, if you’re fighting a fort of enemies, don’t bother, you’ll be shot down before you can say “Savage Leap.” Heh. But that’s why you have two weapon options, my dear WvWvW’ers.

I think that the whole problem is that an organized melee attack is a lot harder to pull off because a lot more discipline is necessary. But it can be very efficient if there isn’t much artillery invilved. The thing is that it really is much easier to jump into a defending position with a bow.

Eochaidh.4106:

Amiron.1067:

Ever stop to think Melee is meant to be used for flanking tactics? Just sayin’.

Ranged players hold a position, melee take an area by suprise.

Of course, if you’re fighting a fort of enemies, don’t bother, you’ll be shot down before you can say “Savage Leap.” Heh. But that’s why you have two weapon options, my dear WvWvW’ers.

I think that the whole problem is that an organized melee attack is a lot harder to pull off because a lot more discipline is necessary. But it can be very efficient if there isn’t much artillery invilved. The thing is that it really is much easier to jump into a defending position with a bow.

I can agree with that. I think that’s where organized groups come into play though. A team or guild that can utilize the melee flanking techniques or ransack supply caravans can really wreck face. It’s just that it’s hard to organize unless you’re in a guild or team with vent and such.

Tsaritsin.5364:

Melee atm in WvW is a complete joke tbh,

And the biggest joke of all is Guardian, because we don’t have a good ranged weapon, lol

Re-rolling from a lvl80 Guardian to a Warr at the mo, so at least then I can use a Gun or a Bow.

One of my guild mates plays a level 80 Guardian. In WvW he is near impossible to bring down. If he has my elementalist adding support and heals he gets that much stronger. I have watched literally 4 people attacking him alone while our 3 team mates were rezzing me. It took them a solid 30 seconds to get him into a downed state at which point I was back up and able to throw down some healing and assist him with a rally. I don’t play melee classes, so I can’t speak first hand about the experience, but I do know that my friends Guardian is a MAJOR asset to our team in WvW and he is the hardest of us all to bring down.

Amiron.1067:

Eochaidh.4106:

Amiron.1067:

Ever stop to think Melee is meant to be used for flanking tactics? Just sayin’.

Ranged players hold a position, melee take an area by suprise.

Of course, if you’re fighting a fort of enemies, don’t bother, you’ll be shot down before you can say “Savage Leap.” Heh. But that’s why you have two weapon options, my dear WvWvW’ers.

I think that the whole problem is that an organized melee attack is a lot harder to pull off because a lot more discipline is necessary. But it can be very efficient if there isn’t much artillery invilved. The thing is that it really is much easier to jump into a defending position with a bow.

I can agree with that. I think that’s where organized groups come into play though. A team or guild that can utilize the melee flanking techniques or ransack supply caravans can really wreck face. It’s just that it’s hard to organize unless you’re in a guild or team with vent and such.

No doubt that this game was designed to be played by organized groups. That goes double for WvW. If you can get in a group in vent, then you will have a far better experience. If you like WvW and aren’t in a guild that does it, you should find one. The great thing about it is you don’t even have to leave your current guild. My guild focuses on WvW, so if you are looking for a WvW guild feel free to message me. We are Malicious on Ferguson’s Crossing.

PvE on my Warrior I can quite easily melee everything up to a Champ, for those I pepper them at range then move to melee to finish them off.

WvW is just a zerg fest, you can try to take point with small groups but if you get zerged you are kitten no matter what. I spent a few hours last night with my rifle trying to get a shot or two off as the zerg rolled over things. I keep melee on switch for the times when I find a small group and we can get in smaller skirmishes. I’m usually fully charged on adrenaline by that time.

It will be nice to see some WvW that has more small groups that take things after the zerg is no longer in the area. That will need some coordination so people can call where the zerg is and you can then avoid it.

GrimShade.8091:

PvE on my Warrior I can quite easily melee everything up to a Champ, for those I pepper them at range then move to melee to finish them off.

WvW is just a zerg fest, you can try to take point with small groups but if you get zerged you are kitten no matter what. I spent a few hours last night with my rifle trying to get a shot or two off as the zerg rolled over things. I keep melee on switch for the times when I find a small group and we can get in smaller skirmishes. I’m usually fully charged on adrenaline by that time.

It will be nice to see some WvW that has more small groups that take things after the zerg is no longer in the area. That will need some coordination so people can call where the zerg is and you can then avoid it.

We have definitely been run over our share of times by zergs with our small 5 – 15 man groups. However we have learned that with the right placement of arrow carts and ballistas, we can thin out the largest of zergs at bottle neck points. For instance, the entrance a (color)vale supply camp or (color)water lowlands. It is amazing what 3 arrow carts and a ballista can do. The arrow carts thin them out and the ballista finishes off the ones that make it through the bottle neck at low health.

I can only see that if you were to zerg them with melee. Range weapons do less damage when their target is closer to them, no?

DirtyHoudini.2917:

I can only see that if you were to zerg them with melee. Range weapons do less damage when their target is closer to them, no?

Not really, just ranger’s longshot.

I have a level 80 Warrior and i think i will be quiting this game until melee is fixed up.

- Being 1 shot in Exp mode isn’t fun.
- Hard to see most of the bosses attacks to dodge.
- Dodge sometimes makes you rubber band and you teleport back into the mobs attack and get 1shot.
- Being forced to play a Melee profession at ranged is total bs.

Thats just PvE, don’t get me started on WvWvW.

It seems obvious that the point was to force the players out of the single mold design by creating situations where it is difficult to keep one strategy up all the time and make it attractive to switch weapons or element. However, the amount of first degree damage seems a little high at times.

I’ve come to think of melee as I think of “damage cooldowns” in other games. I use it when it is available for as long as I can and enjoy the extra dps, but I also know it will have to end and I’ll go back to “regular” dps.

So far the only profession and context where I feel really kitten is Guardian in WvW, and even there I just focus on other objectives, avoid defending walls.

Hey guys, Thanks fr the replies. As I said in my post, I have no issue with having to swap weapons in the right circumstances. I have issues with how little I get to melee compared to how much ranged get to ranged. The safety aspects far outweigh the damage increase of melee, at the moment most people are to afraid to go in. The long runbacks for me is a big factor in not wanting to go in. The knowledge that I have a marked increase in the possibility of being killed followed by a very long runback just makes me want to go ranged for safety. I don’t have a solution, all I know is that when I am ranged 99% of the time, and not through want, then something needs to be tweaked.

Nightprowler’s solution is a viable one, go support and help the team. But for me that is short-changing people who want different experiences. What if I want to go melee? I want to be able to survive. Not perma locked down.