Guild Wars 2

…get the devs’ attention?

There are various youtube videos with naked Charr protesting in Lion’s Arch because most armor in this game looks absolutely hideous on Charr (take the new helmet skins you get from achievements for instance). Most gear looks absolutely distorted on Charr (and Asura) because it was designed to look good on human models. Come on, just because that lingerie looks great on Jessica Alba doesn’t mean that the very same lingerie would also look great on a lion, too!

I’m wondering if those protests actually caught ANet’s attention since this game’s endgame is all about looks and this is definitely a reason why Charr are the least played race despite being a popular race.

Seriously, Charr have so many clipping issues and even their cultural armor helmets look absolutely hideous on them (barring the T3, but this one has serious clipping issues with the Charr’s chin and teeth).

Do you know if there are any plans on reworking armor for Charr? Come on, even Grumpy Charr would approve!

There are plenty of human armors that need tweaking to fix clipping, too.

Granted, I’m sure Charr have it worse, but it’s currently nothing racial exclusive at this point, either.

thats what you get for playing ugly races :/

Play sylvari, get the best out of all worlds; humn figure, all colors available, glow (!!!!!), some armorshave exclusive glow just because we glow!

Fortus.6175:

thats what you get for playing ugly races :/

Play sylvari, get the best out of all worlds; humn figure, all colors available, glow (!!!!!), some armorshave exclusive glow just because we glow!

Saladhead? Nty sir. Sylvari are a human that trying to act like trees anyway

My toes go through my boots…I’m not even sure why I wear them. =/ But then, they provide some extra defense, so it’s all good.

almost every single set of pants for Charr, look exactly alike.

I don’t mean the details, but rather the “Form”. It’s like they made one single “Mesh” for it and then just pasted the Texture for every single Leggins onto that Mesh without changing the Rigging one bit beyond using “Scaling” in all 3 Axis at once.

…& yes these are CG modeling terms…

One of these days I’ll see if I can produce some sketches of what they should have done instead of this “copy past Plantigrade rigging onto Beastly Cat Legs” stuff…

My main is a lvl80 charr warrior.

After playing human and seeing how human can look good in “anything”, I demand a race change license.

Seriously human can look better in lvl5 armor compare to charr in any level80 armor.

Fortus.6175:

thats what you get for playing ugly races :/

Play sylvari, get the best out of all worlds; humn figure, all colors available, glow (!!!!!), some armorshave exclusive glow just because we glow!

This has been bugging me.
Every time I try and reroll, I end up with a sylvari.
Humans look too similar, charr armor and run is so screwy, Norn animations are meh and its hard to make a normal looking female, I like asura but they miss out on so much stuff I could get just by picking a pretty glowy tree.

If you’re still wondering if the protest caught developers attention, I can safely tell you that there was a developer at the tarnished coast protest. So yes, somebody saw.

shedim.8504:

There are various youtube videos with naked Charr protesting in Lion’s Arch ….

Yup, Charr lose but I win. ~snaps more screenies~

Fortus.6175:

thats what you get for playing ugly races :/

Play sylvari, get the best out of all worlds; humn figure, all colors available, glow (!!!!!), some armorshave exclusive glow just because we glow!

In their defense, Charr look ridiculously awesome. They just have morbidly terrible animations and armor.

ilr.9675:

almost every single set of pants for Charr, look exactly alike.

I don’t mean the details, but rather the “Form”. It’s like they made one single “Mesh” for it and then just pasted the Texture for every single Leggins onto that Mesh without changing the Rigging one bit beyond using “Scaling” in all 3 Axis at once.

…& yes these are CG modeling terms…

One of these days I’ll see if I can produce some sketches of what they should have done instead of this “copy past Plantigrade rigging onto Beastly Cat Legs” stuff…

I don’t think you know anything about character art. As someone who’s worked professionally as a character and environment artist I can safely say that not one charr pants mesh is the same model. The textures and normal maps are entirely different and many of the pants have entirely different physics to the cloth. They do, of course, rig them all the same way, but that’s how all character models are. You have your base mesh which is rigged and you bind and paint weights onto the armor on top of said rig. ArenaNet does some extra work by removing unseen polygons to reduce the overall triangle count as well, which also saves internal clipping issues in the character itself. I wouldn’t doubt it if ANet character artists used PM_HeatWeight to rig their armors in time for launch though. It gets any rig 95% percent correct, but often you have to go in and paint the weights for fine details to avoid clipping.

I really hope that the protests got some attention, because right now armor for Charr is a mess. Is not only the clipping most armors have, there are outraging things like the tail going through the armor in 90% of the sets (even the ones available purchasing gems) and the issue with char faces/horns and helmets.
My main is a Charr thief and I have few options for the looks that are not bugged, and new sets keep coming with the same flaws.

Berelious.3290:

If you’re still wondering if the protest caught developers attention, I can safely tell you that there was a developer at the tarnished coast protest. So yes, somebody saw.

But, did he/they care is the real question.

Viking Jorun.5413:

ilr.9675:

almost every single set of pants for Charr, look exactly alike.

I don’t mean the details, but rather the “Form”. It’s like they made one single “Mesh” for it and then just pasted the Texture for every single Leggins onto that Mesh without changing the Rigging one bit beyond using “Scaling” in all 3 Axis at once.

…& yes these are CG modeling terms…

One of these days I’ll see if I can produce some sketches of what they should have done instead of this “copy past Plantigrade rigging onto Beastly Cat Legs” stuff…

I don’t think you know anything about character art. As someone who’s worked professionally as a character and environment artist I can safely say that not one charr pants mesh is the same model. The textures and normal maps are entirely different and many of the pants have entirely different physics to the cloth. They do, of course, rig them all the same way, but that’s how all character models are. You have your base mesh which is rigged and you bind and paint weights onto the armor on top of said rig. ArenaNet does some extra work by removing unseen polygons to reduce the overall triangle count as well, which also saves internal clipping issues in the character itself. I wouldn’t doubt it if ANet character artists used PM_HeatWeight to rig their armors in time for launch though. It gets any rig 95% percent correct, but often you have to go in and paint the weights for fine details to avoid clipping.

All that snubbery and then you just ended up agreeing with my point about Rigging anyway. …do you even produce multiple wardrobes for non-Human characters??

Design a lingerie that would look sexy on a fearsome lion, I dare you.

They will never fix those issues. Kinda sad though, I love playing charr but it is a pain to find a good non clipping armor-combination. Even the cultural armors clip/have hovering shoulders.

projectcedric.6951:

Design a lingerie that would look sexy on a fearsome lion, I dare you.

wrong website dude

About everything else has priority to race specific armor. If there´s new armor in the pipe it´s going to be all-races armor.
See this recent interview.

Male Sylvari are in the same boat. Barely anything fits me correctly. :< Lack of non-coats gives even less options since it’s the main problem of what scales improperly.

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

I also don’t get why Charr have to be hunchbacks. It’s just like WoW where half of the Horde consists of humanoids with deformed spines and just like WoW still didn’t update the prehistoric models of the older races I doubt the devs here are going to do anything about it.

Charr animations aren’t that bad. Their animations aren’t as clunky as a Norn’s. Except sword and axe maybe. Especially Necromancer axe autoattack looks incredibly stupid.

I’m just annoyed the achievement rewards look great on every other race but Charr.

Zero acknowledgement from the devs here. I think it’s because that kind of post gets moved over to the other sections (i.e. community events)

They even posted on twitter/facebook but I don’t think there was a response there either.

shedim.8504:

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

I also don’t get why Charr have to be hunchbacks. It’s just like WoW where half of the Horde consists of humanoids with deformed spines and just like WoW still didn’t update the prehistoric models of the older races I doubt the devs here are going to do anything about it.

Charr animations aren’t that bad. Their animations aren’t as clunky as a Norn’s. Except sword and axe maybe. Especially Necromancer axe autoattack looks incredibly stupid.

I’m just annoyed the achievement rewards look great on every other race but Charr.

hellfire helm is nice but rest sucks… The hellfire/radiant shoulders float no matter what top you wear and both helms have horns slashed off. The gloves are fine for both.

I have also given up on my charr war on which i have 1.3k hours and am leveling my spvp human war to replace my giant clipping/horn cut off cat. I hate games that do this(making one race almighty and the others as after thoughts with rushed ideas) Maybe upcoming armors wont be kitten and OMG brahams armor looks like kitten on norn. It looks better on humans… A NORN ARMOR IS BETTER ON HUMANS. W T F

shedim.8504:

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

I also don’t get why Charr have to be hunchbacks. It’s just like WoW where half of the Horde consists of humanoids with deformed spines and just like WoW still didn’t update the prehistoric models of the older races I doubt the devs here are going to do anything about it.

Charr animations aren’t that bad. Their animations aren’t as clunky as a Norn’s. Except sword and axe maybe. Especially Necromancer axe autoattack looks incredibly stupid.

I’m just annoyed the achievement rewards look great on every other race but Charr.

Well i kinda think it had something to do with their running animations. I’m probably wrong but that’s just my opinion. They had two body types but went with the hunchback instead of the ones posted in the pictures i upload. It would be awesome to have that huge mane and to stand tall like that.

projectcedric.6951:

Design a lingerie that would look sexy on a fearsome lion, I dare you.

If it exists, there’s…

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

The lore behind that is that, back in GW1 most charr were casters, and standing tall was commonplace, but due to the secession from the Flame Legion and advancement in science, the charr discovered that a crouched, more ready-to-pounce position was more effective in battle (most likely because their enemies are so short). Charr casters still stand tall when casting their staves, so it’s nice that the lore of it was taken into account when animating models.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

The lore behind that is that, back in GW1 most charr were casters, and standing tall was commonplace, but due to the secession from the Flame Legion and advancement in science, the charr discovered that a crouched, more ready-to-pounce position was more effective in battle (most likely because their enemies are so short). Charr casters still stand tall when casting their staves, so it’s nice that the lore of it was taken into account when animating models.

Really? I…i did not know that. I will have to investigate. But still. It would be nice to have the option to have your Charr stand tall like the ones in the pictures (and have that huge mane). Back on topic though ; Charr armor could def use some more love. T3 Heavy obviously got the most attention.

A friend of mine wrote something way back about this. He was pretty disappointed by the fact that Charr get all these cool fur patterns and the like but nobody could actually see them because of the way armor was designed. Seems strange that a fur covered race would be more keen on being fully covered than the furless races.

The Talcmaster.7391:

A friend of mine wrote something way back about this. He was pretty disappointed by the fact that Charr get all these cool fur patterns and the like but nobody could actually see them because of the way armor was designed. Seems strange that a fur covered race would be more keen on being fully covered than the furless races.

Also same with Sylvari and Norn. We get Tattoos, Skin Patterns, Glowy Bioluminescence and such but no way to show it off unless you use a very select few styles exclusive to Heavy and Light armor. :O There’s just not enough goin on with armor customization and it sucks even more when what’s available doesn’t scale correctly for your race.

Gmr Leon.1846:

My toes go through my boots…I’m not even sure why I wear them. =/ But then, they provide some extra defense, so it’s all good.

Helmet Ears.

Just imagine peeling your ears off your skull after a long day of sweaty battle. Eeeww!

Edit: This with an Asura who has very elephant-like ears, the torn on the bottom style and as large as they can be. Dark gray skin too. Some helmets let the ears clip through so I can pretend it’s intentional. Most helmets hide them.

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

Likely design limitations. Altering a human rig to have ‘backward knees’ was probably way easier than a new skeleton that resembled a beast race. I mean, look at their feet? That’s pretty bad. It’s not disgusting, but it’s not very proportional with their large upper body and literally tiny legs and short feet.

I like the Charr current design. Their feet are better proportioned and their legs set wider apart means they can be made to look larger rather than trying to ‘fit’ them under their torso and they still have the prominent upper body/shoulders but the neck looks more powerful.

I will still not get over the t3 charr cultural light armor. Especially the helm. It’s awesome!! It’s featured in the Necromancers skill video. What is cooler than a blindfold with little chains hanging from it?

…The huge problem with it though is that it SHAVES off the mane. I’m sure every other race would freak too if they lost their hair (or a sylvari losing his mushroom head) etc. And what kills me is this armor is for charr only, so it’s made for the charr and it still has a huge glitch.

People tell me “Thats how it’s supposed to look.” I don’t understand..so my charr has to shave her glorious mane to wear the helm? I settle for a lot less cooler helms until this is fixed. Especially when t3 armor costs so much gold.

Here is a comparison. No matter how cool the helm is..without the mane..it just looks awful.

To be fair, every race loses their hair when they put on a hat or helmet.

panzer.6034:

To be fair, every race loses their hair when they put on a hat or helmet.

This is neither a “hat” or a “helmet”.

Yeah, that’s true. But my Asura loses his EARS with most helmets! I can believe someone tucking their hair up inside their helmet, but those massive ears with their ear bones would be very hard to squeeze in there. I can’t imagine an Asura wearing any helmet and not cutting ear holes in it. Any more than I can imagine a charr shaving his mane to wear a blindfold.

medohgeuh.4650:

There are plenty of human armors that need tweaking to fix clipping, too.

Granted, I’m sure Charr have it worse, but it’s currently nothing racial exclusive at this point, either.

Um, no.

Humans don’t have clipping to the point where body parts extrude out of their armor.
Humans don’t have shoulders armor that floats magically off of their bodies.
Humans don’t have whole portions of their skull and face removed by helmets.

There’s some clipping in certain human armors, sure. But that is in no way comparable to the issues with charr armors. And issues with charr armors are getting worse, not better.

Seriously, a helmet shouldn’t chop off a charr’s horns when the designers can just put in some holes into the helmets.

I’m so tired of the clipping issues. Even the NEW armors have them, and seriously it’s so bad that I refuse to get them for my Charrs. It’s been a year. I start to wonder wheter they actually give a kitten about Charrs.

When my charr wears the light heritage armor, there’s actually a spot where the pants clip through the back of the jacket. And that’s the same set…

The horns disappearing makes even less sense than the Asura ears

Ok, i’ll support my Charr bros even in this post, even tou i’m kinda tired of waitin for a word from the devs.
And ask you Anet guys to do something or let us know something bout this serious issue!
Really, plse!

I’m going to go ahead and agree with having some of the armor fixed to show the mane, horns, ears, and tail without clipping them. I currently have four Charr characters, and, besides racial armor, it’s hard mixing and matching other armors for them because of the clipping. The armor looks great, but my Charr would love to keep her horns and tail without it being clipped. =P

I will copy-paste a few words from someone cause its seems hes not active atm, i hope he won’t kill me for that when he get back.

Source:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/races/charr/The-agony-of-Charr-armor-Long-read/first

Darmikau.9413:

If the armors are not being purposed for a significant character, they will almost invariably be modeled for humans, exported to Charr, and come with all the features thereof. Stretching. Clipping. Removal of horns. It’s almost impossible to find any armor or any combination of Charr armors without these things. And that’s where the laziness comes in. Anet has shown no signs of improving these things, and continues to release stretched models, clipping, and other designs that clearly show undue lack of care for the Charr. Remember how I excluded Citadel of Flame armor from the list of armors designed for Charr? That’s because it wasn’t. Ironically, it’s one the Charr’s worst armor sets. Consider the first argument, and you realize that no Charr would ever be caught dead wearing anything relating them to the Flame Legion. Consider the second, and you realize just how foolish and lazy the design is. This is a set of armor designed by a Legion of Charr, for a Legion of Charr, and yet it comes with some of the most obvious stretching and clipping issues in the game. The outfits don’t even have slots for a tail, and they were designed for Charr. It’s indicative of how little Anet cares to treat the Charr and their armor with due consideration, and another example of how the designs and implementation of our armor falls dead last on their list of priorities.

So, where does the Radiant Helm fit into all of this?

Here’s what my Charr looks like without the helmet on:
( http://i.imgur.com/BYyey7N.jpg )

And here’s what he looks like with it on:
( http://i.imgur.com/grFY2N5.jpg )

Absent: Horns, ears, mane, dignity.

On a general level, I wasn’t going to get the Radiant Helm anyway. Sans that fact I’m short a few achievement points, it’s too bright for my tastes. Of course, this isn’t about that. This is such an extreme level of laziness and lack of care that I can’t even be mad, I’m simply impressed. This is a helmet that I’m guessing a very small proportion of the population has even dedicated enough time into the game to receive yet. It’s supposed to be prestigious. On Charr, it’s anything but. I have absolutely no doubt that whoever was tasked with modelling this helm simply took the helm for the humans, and placed it right on the Charr’s head without even a thought that, culture and anatomy argument aside, it might be both ugly and uncaring to not even make an attempt to preserve the ears and horns of the character. Of course, I don’t blame the modeler – this has been the precedent since the beginning. And that’s what this is about.

So the helm looks awful, just don’t wear it, right? Of course, and that’s the plan. But here’s the problem: this sets a whole new precedent for laziness when it comes to modelling armor and putting even a trace amount of care into crafting a quality product. That’s what this is all about. As I said, it’s no secret that Charr get the short end of the armor stick, but this takes it to such a high degree that I can’t help but worry for the future of Charr armor. This isn’t an isolated incident being extrapolated by a slippery slope argument – it’s a continuing decline in quality that is the basis for why I and many other Charr players feel that Anet simply does not care.

And that’s why I made this post. I have my completed Armor set for my guardian, and have had it for months without incentive or good reason to change. Many other Charr players probably care less than me about how their armor looks, and I wish I could have that level of indifference. I’m making this post because I think the Radiant Helm represents an unacceptable decline in quality that crosses a line Anet should have stayed well above, and someone had to say something. In the grand scheme of things, is it a big deal? Not really. There’s a whole game with lots of other issues to worry about. However, this is an issue that’s very close to a race and a community that I very much enjoy, and to see things like this completely frustrates me. It’s my hope that there’s at least one person at Anet who it frustrates as well, who might be able to have a say. Not for the helmet, but for the future of Charr armor, the quality of the armor of other races, and the quality of armor for races to come. The Charr community already has no hope for good looking armor unless we get new cultural sets, and I can’t imagine the same is untrue for any potential future races if they happen – Tengu, Quaggan, Skritt, what have you. For their benefit as well, someone needs to start caring.

tl;dr – Disconnected Developer. Discontent Charr.

,

I ALMOST was going to repost his thread as-well here. He does an excellent job at explaining our plight.

Indeed. The thing is: His thread is older and yet no dev bothered dropping a comment. This lack of care makes me sad.

I have serious doubt’s we will ever get acknowledged… every time I see armor clipping tail or horns..I just report it as a bug.

As a proud Asura all I want is a blasted boot toggle. My undoubtedly superior toes are tired of being held back by these inferior human foot devices. I sympathize with you furballs and your plight.

shedim.8504:

Indeed. The thing is: His thread is older and yet no dev bothered dropping a comment. This lack of care makes me sad.

Probably didn’t get a dev response because it’s in the race forums. Probably one of the least viewed forums here. And for charr, too. So it’s the least of the least.

They’ve outright said it’s not worth their time to make stuff for charr so I doubt any thing will ever be fixed.

fellyn.5083:

shedim.8504:

Indeed. The thing is: His thread is older and yet no dev bothered dropping a comment. This lack of care makes me sad.

Probably didn’t get a dev response because it’s in the race forums. Probably one of the least viewed forums here. And for charr, too. So it’s the least of the least.

They’ve outright said it’s not worth their time to make stuff for charr so I doubt any thing will ever be fixed.

When did they say that?

There was a charr armor protest?