Guild Wars 2

The Talcmaster.7391:

When my charr wears the light heritage armor, there’s actually a spot where the pants clip through the back of the jacket. And that’s the same set…

The horns disappearing makes even less sense than the Asura ears

I use the same set more or less. It only clips in that way on my max height charr, but my medium height charr has no visual clipping issues unless you look straight up his crotch at where the bottom of his tail connects.

That quote made by the devs about race-specific armor says all that needs to be said about this issue. They don’t consider it worth their time. Despite the fact that both Charr and Asura require half the work of the other races (since they only use one gender’s armor style), it’s still too much effort for them to be bothered with it. And for the record, the whole “lack of gender disparity” in those two races is really just a cop-out for not having to do it. There was nothing explicitly implying that female charr wouldn’t wear different styles of armor, it was just a convenient excuse not to have to model two different sets. And there sure as hell wasn’t any reason for Asura not to have female versions of armor. I remember the little story quips during their race introduction. One of the female Asura actively used her sexuality to try and seduce one of the others. So I don’t believe for a second that Asura don’t actively consider “gender” in their society; certainly not at the same level as Charr might. In fact, even if you could make a really convincing arguement for the Charr, I still wouldn’t accept it as an excuse for Asura. That’s just cutting corners. It’s a little bit of laziness, and a lot of indifference. Honestly, if they can’t even be bothered to support their own unique races, they should have never made them playable in the first place. It’s only going to get worse from here.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

That quote made by the devs about race-specific armor says all that needs to be said about this issue. They don’t consider it worth their time. Despite the fact that both Charr and Asura require half the work of the other races (since they only use one gender’s armor style), it’s still too much effort for them to be bothered with it. And for the record, the whole “lack of gender disparity” in those two races is really just a cop-out for not having to do it. There was nothing explicitly implying that female charr wouldn’t wear different styles of armor, it was just a convenient excuse not to have to model two different sets. And there sure as hell wasn’t any reason for Asura not to have female versions of armor. I remember the little story quips during their race introduction. One of the female Asura actively used her sexuality to try and seduce one of the others. So I don’t believe for a second that Asura don’t actively consider “gender” in their society; certainly not at the same level as Charr might. In fact, even if you could make a really convincing arguement for the Charr, I still wouldn’t accept it as an excuse for Asura. That’s just cutting corners. It’s a little bit of laziness, and a lot of indifference. Honestly, if they can’t even be bothered to support their own unique races, they should have never made them playable in the first place. It’s only going to get worse from here.

I’m hoping, perhaps foolishly that even if they aren’t making more armor that’s race specific they might rotate which race the armor was designed for first.

The TA armor for example is available to all but it’s a Sylvari styled armor.

VoiceOfUnreason.5976:

That quote made by the devs about race-specific armor says all that needs to be said about this issue. They don’t consider it worth their time. Despite the fact that both Charr and Asura require half the work of the other races (since they only use one gender’s armor style), it’s still too much effort for them to be bothered with it. And for the record, the whole “lack of gender disparity” in those two races is really just a cop-out for not having to do it. There was nothing explicitly implying that female charr wouldn’t wear different styles of armor, it was just a convenient excuse not to have to model two different sets. And there sure as hell wasn’t any reason for Asura not to have female versions of armor. I remember the little story quips during their race introduction. One of the female Asura actively used her sexuality to try and seduce one of the others. So I don’t believe for a second that Asura don’t actively consider “gender” in their society; certainly not at the same level as Charr might. In fact, even if you could make a really convincing arguement for the Charr, I still wouldn’t accept it as an excuse for Asura. That’s just cutting corners. It’s a little bit of laziness, and a lot of indifference. Honestly, if they can’t even be bothered to support their own unique races, they should have never made them playable in the first place. It’s only going to get worse from here.

I wouldn’t consider adjusting an armor set in a few specific areas (head and tail mostly, perhaps shoulders) to be “race specific armor”.

I think what that quote is more saying is that they aren’t going to make any more cultural armor sets any time soon. They don’t want to create, from scratch, armor that is specific to only one race. They want new armor sets to be wearable by, and appeal to, all races. Adjusting the armor to fit Charr doesn’t really seem out of the realm of possibility based on Colin’s quote, at least IMO. In fact, if anything that quote should support adjusting the armor to fit Charr better, because for the armor to appeal to Charr it needs to not be a horrible clipping mess.

I found it funny how they says they don’t have time to fix few clipping issues (mostly tail, head) yet creating different armors for human/norm/sylvari based on their genre – i guess that worth their time?

Take a look on arah heavy pants.. a easy fix is there, actually sits in t3 heavy. They are just too lazy to fix it.

Noone been asking about completely different armors, just for fix to few places. But should i be surprised when even CULTURAL has clipping issues? :

Heavy t1 – definitely oversized shoulders causing load of issues with clipping, floating, weapons like gs are completely inside our armor

Heavy t2 – floating shoulders

Heavy t3 – spikes from gloves clipping through shield, shoulders have a spikes coming from.. i don’t know as there is nothing, male version helmet clipping with smaller horns, most faces also clippins though it.

Medium t1 – boots has clipping issues, leg coming out of them

Light t3 – everyone knows by now how bad it is:

Mask remove hairs
Pants – tail clipping, nuff said.

For me its just laziness. Do they planning to release more nonhuman classes? I actually feel sorry to anyone that pick them up.

The Talcmaster.7391:

A friend of mine wrote something way back about this. He was pretty disappointed by the fact that Charr get all these cool fur patterns and the like but nobody could actually see them because of the way armor was designed. Seems strange that a fur covered race would be more keen on being fully covered than the furless races.

I have two problems with the Charr armours (as I never show helmets, the third is not a problem for me :P)

1. The lack of a tail hole in most armours. And it is possible to make an armour that takes into account the Charr’s tail! Check the medium Arah dungeon armour on a Charr…

2. The lack of “open” armours to show off the fur. The only one I’ve found in the light armour, is the feathered one. Luckily, it doesn’t have the tail problem as the back is parted in the middle…

I think this is not lazyness or not awareness…it is just priorities. I work as a dev team leader, and usually we know about a lot of issues on our software, but we don’t have enough time/resources to fix the non-urgent ones and we are also chained to the new requirement of the business, so we are always doing new things and fixing urgent issues, but medium and low ones nevet get their time.
So what our customers tend to do when they want something fixed and their pleads are not attended? They escalate the issue and then they make a lot of noise about it, so it becomes a hot-urgent topic…and then it is included in our planification and we fix it.
Here is the same problem: They don’t have the time and consider other things more urgent to do, so the only way to have this things fixed is to make a lot of noise about them and make them urgent and blocking. The protest was a nice first step, but we need more activity.

Bjornen.5218:

I think this is not lazyness or not awareness…it is just priorities. I work as a dev team leader, and usually we know about a lot of issues on our software, but we don’t have enough time/resources to fix the non-urgent ones and we are also chained to the new requirement of the business, so we are always doing new things and fixing urgent issues, but medium and low ones nevet get their time.
So what our customers tend to do when they want something fixed and their pleads are not attended? They escalate the issue and then they make a lot of noise about it, so it becomes a hot-urgent topic…and then it is included in our planification and we fix it.
Here is the same problem: They don’t have the time and consider other things more urgent to do, so the only way to have this things fixed is to make a lot of noise about them and make them urgent and blocking. The protest was a nice first step, but we need more activity.

Imagine what will happen if they release legendary armor with clipping everywhere for charr.. These forums will be shut down by massive army of charrs with their tanks

Kiono.6187:

fellyn.5083:

They’ve outright said it’s not worth their time to make stuff for charr so I doubt any thing will ever be fixed.

When did they say that?

In a recent interview, one of the devs was directly asked (the first question, even) if charr armor would be addressed. He said it was easier designing armor for humans and then applying it to the other races, and he doesn’t foresee that changing.

But applying it to the other races should also mean updating it so it, you know, fits. We should keep pressing for a proper response.

keep pressing, eventually they will listen…companies always listen if enough people demand it and its costing them money.

I want another protest. I missed the last one.

laokoko.7403:

My main is a lvl80 charr warrior.

After playing human and seeing how human can look good in “anything”, I demand a race change license.

Seriously human can look better in lvl5 armor compare to charr in any level80 armor.

i’d change race as well.
Love my charr, love it’s lore…

but sadly, I’m stuck with very few options. I wish I could wear a cape.

Kiono.6187:

fellyn.5083:

shedim.8504:

Indeed. The thing is: His thread is older and yet no dev bothered dropping a comment. This lack of care makes me sad.

Probably didn’t get a dev response because it’s in the race forums. Probably one of the least viewed forums here. And for charr, too. So it’s the least of the least.

They’ve outright said it’s not worth their time to make stuff for charr so I doubt any thing will ever be fixed.

When did they say that?

There was an article a few weeks back with Colin Johanson and they asked about charr horns and manes being cut off and armor designed with those things in mind.

The reply was basically what I said “it’s not worth or time to make stuff that only few people will use”.

Which is funny because then they say how they’re disappointed with charr being the least popular race.

Kiono.6187:

I want another protest. I missed the last one.

I did as well.

This has been a long-time complaint of mine as well.

I was particularly aghast to discover that Tier 3 Cultural Light commits the sin of having the tail clip through the skirt rather than having a hole for it.
That’s just ridiculously sloppy design.
What should be one of the most prestige armour sets for your character, and it ignores a vital part of their anatomy.

For my female Charr Mesmer, Triplicat, I’ve settled on the trousers from Caudecus’ Manor, as they are one of the best pieces with provision for Charr tails.

I also think it’s incredibly lazy of the team that there aren’t separate male and female armour sets for Charr.

And on top of all that, while she looks graceful and catlike when her weapons are stowed, as soon as she draws them, she waddles like she’s soiled herself. All feline grace goes out the window.
The waddle’s fine on hulking great male Charr, and looks intimidating, but it looks embarrassingly bad on female Charr.

Oh, and don’t get me started on trenchcoats and my male Charr Engineer, Mr. Tiddles.

fellyn.5083:

Kiono.6187:

fellyn.5083:

shedim.8504:

Indeed. The thing is: His thread is older and yet no dev bothered dropping a comment. This lack of care makes me sad.

Probably didn’t get a dev response because it’s in the race forums. Probably one of the least viewed forums here. And for charr, too. So it’s the least of the least.

They’ve outright said it’s not worth their time to make stuff for charr so I doubt any thing will ever be fixed.

When did they say that?

There was an article a few weeks back with Colin Johanson and they asked about charr horns and manes being cut off and armor designed with those things in mind.

The reply was basically what I said “it’s not worth or time to make stuff that only few people will use”.

Which is funny because then they say how they’re disappointed with charr being the least popular race.

If thats is their logic, good luck in business. On top of that many ppl actually experience constant lags due to their kitten engine, yet nothing is done. Year 2013, soon 2014, and gw still running a dx9..yeah its won’t work. As it stands now we have dx11.2 tech and won’t take long when we get dx12 in hands.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Trash Bag helmet.
http://i.imgur.com/U5IBy.jpg

I definitely feel the pain of having a Charr main. I love mine to death but it’s very difficult finding something that looks decent.

Sadly, that gave me a good chuckle Cacti Eleven.
It really does look like a cat that got something stuck on its head and is none too pleased about it.

I don’t want to look like a human, that said I would like a greater range of armours, some slightly more feminine looking ones would be nice.

Cacti Eleven.9135:

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Trash Bag helmet.
http://i.imgur.com/U5IBy.jpg

I definitely feel the pain of having a Charr main. I love mine to death but it’s very difficult finding something that looks decent.

Yeah, some of the helm designs for charr are atrocious. They’re literally just a sack. Laziness is the only answer some of them exist.

azureai.9764:

Humans don’t have clipping to the point where body parts extrude out of their armor.
Humans don’t have shoulders armor that floats magically off of their bodies.
*_Humans don’t have whole portions of their skull and face removed by helmets._

I don’t know about helmets, but I can name plenty of sets where the body clips through on humans (Magitech, Phoenix, Leather, Pirate, Exotic Acolyte, Magician, Rogue, Noble etc.) during various animations and pretty much every shoulder piece hovers to some degree. I’ve reported a number of these with screenshots in this forum section so feel free to browse my post history for proof.

azureai.9764:

There’s some clipping in certain human armors, sure. But that is in no way comparable to the issues with charr armors. And issues with charr armors are getting worse, not better.

Didn’t I say Charr probably have it worse?

My point is, all the armors need addressing, not just one race, particularly in a game so heavy rooted in visual customization.

This thread will stay on page one until it is given the proper love it needs.

Cacti Eleven.9135:

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Trash Bag helmet.
http://i.imgur.com/U5IBy.jpg

I definitely feel the pain of having a Charr main. I love mine to death but it’s very difficult finding something that looks decent.

^this.. you see it allot..

like: http://www.gw2armor.com/charr/male/cm/heavy/front.jpg
Because the helmet is so big and weird shape the wings on it are going the wrong way..

My sugestion is everyone use as a signature some sort of phrase connected to their awfull work on Charr armor.

Those that dont know how to set up their signature, just post it in the end.
Maybe if we embarass Anet enough they will fix it.

I think I might go through all the helmets and leggings tonight and determine exactly what the ratio is between pieces that do take Charr anatomy into account and those that don’t.

Dont bother Mungrul.

I’ll give you the answer:

Cultural Charr armor and, to some extense, CoF.

That plastic trash bag Cacti posted is the winner of bad helmets.

Yes, Charr armor needs help. Though I’ve found armor that works for me (T3 heavy), I hope it arrives soon across all armors. The mention of Asura got me in terms of this thread. I previewed Braham’s heavy on my Asura warrior and the helm was so outrageously, ridiculously HUGE that it actually worked as a humorous fashion statement. That probably wasn’t the intent with the armor though.

Reihert.1509:

Dont bother Mungrul.

I’ll give you the answer:

Cultural Charr armor and, to some extense, CoF.

That plastic trash bag Cacti posted is the winner of bad helmets.

Not even that; as I said earlier in the thread, the cultural light tier 3 leggings don’t cater to Charr tails. The tail clips through the skirt.

But mainly, I want to get solid figures written down here to shame ArenaNet into action.

Dont bother Mungrul.

I’ll give you the answer:

Cultural Charr armor and, to some extense, CoF.

That plastic trash bag Cacti posted is the winner of bad helmets.

Yes, Charr armor needs help. Though I’ve found armor that works for me (T3 heavy), I hope it arrives soon across all armors. The mention of Asura got me in terms of this thread. I previewed Braham’s heavy on my Asura warrior and the helm was so outrageously, ridiculously HUGE that it actually worked as a humorous fashion statement. That probably wasn’t the intent with the armor though.

What’s sad is the problem is getting worse – not better – after so many players have mentioned it. It’s one thing to not have time to fix some of the older armors, but to be designing the new armors with these same problems, or in some cases blatant disdain for these issues, shows a disregard for ANet’s players.

heres a picture of the level 80 exotic medium armor on my thief!

Wow that is some serious floating issues.

fellyn.5083:

The reply was basically what I said “it’s not worth or time to make stuff that only few people will use”.

Also funny b/c that describes 90% of the stuff in the Gem Shop which accounts for the vast majority of all new clothing & skins & art resources in general that they put into the game.

I think the solution is clear then: They just need to data mine which helmets for Charr are most often worn, and then make “Proper” ones that don’t clip or disable Manes, to then sell in their Gem Shop… Cost Effectiveness issue solved…

Well I made a signature if anyone wants to copy it or improve on it, just copy & paste this into your signature:

" Dear Anet Fix Charr armor! " :https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Did-the-Charr-armor-protest/first

Just remove the space between the quotes in the first part.

Fortus.6175:

thats what you get for playing ugly races :/

Play sylvari, get the best out of all worlds; humn figure, all colors available, glow (!!!!!), some armorshave exclusive glow just because we glow!

Cons: clothie armor for bros does not glow, and our pauldrons usually are too big or sit way too high.

Fortus.6175:

thats what you get for playing ugly races

‘Ugly’ race? Charr?

Have you been on the internet lately? Kitties are adorable!

ilr.9675:

Viking Jorun.5413:

ilr.9675:

almost every single set of pants for Charr, look exactly alike.

I don’t mean the details, but rather the “Form”. It’s like they made one single “Mesh” for it and then just pasted the Texture for every single Leggins onto that Mesh without changing the Rigging one bit beyond using “Scaling” in all 3 Axis at once.

…& yes these are CG modeling terms…

One of these days I’ll see if I can produce some sketches of what they should have done instead of this “copy past Plantigrade rigging onto Beastly Cat Legs” stuff…

I don’t think you know anything about character art. As someone who’s worked professionally as a character and environment artist I can safely say that not one charr pants mesh is the same model. The textures and normal maps are entirely different and many of the pants have entirely different physics to the cloth. They do, of course, rig them all the same way, but that’s how all character models are. You have your base mesh which is rigged and you bind and paint weights onto the armor on top of said rig. ArenaNet does some extra work by removing unseen polygons to reduce the overall triangle count as well, which also saves internal clipping issues in the character itself. I wouldn’t doubt it if ANet character artists used PM_HeatWeight to rig their armors in time for launch though. It gets any rig 95% percent correct, but often you have to go in and paint the weights for fine details to avoid clipping.

All that snubbery and then you just ended up agreeing with my point about Rigging anyway. …do you even produce multiple wardrobes for non-Human characters??

The Indy games I’ve designed for have been primarily based around beastial or amphibious characters. Characters don’t include playable ones, mind you. As a character artist it’s necessary to create monsters and NPCs who might be quadrupeds, bipeds or even pentipeds or tripeds in some cases. So yes, I’m used to creating multiple wardrobe assets for non-human characters. If every troll or centaur you rig has the same armor bound it’s not going to make all that appealing of a game.

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

Those upright charr look infinity % better to me than the humped over charr with the long necks.

Tachenon.5270:

Scourge.4317:

I also had a problem with how my Charr theif looked. It was my very first character and i ended up rerolling human after pleading with customer support for some kind of race change ( i was that desperate ). I went back and played some original Guild Wars and was reminded that there are Charr that stand tall like a human with huge manes and then there are the ones we have now.

Why weren’t we given both body types? To me it seems like a lot of the armor would look so much better on this body type since they stand upright like a human.

Those upright charr look infinity % better to me than the humped over charr with the long necks.

Yes, they do look better. And armor would look better if we used that model ( in my opinion ). Its 2 very different body types not just one. And i understand what others said about charr not wanting to look like flame legion but we do have Cof flame legion armor which is a slap in the face to all charr.

Btw that charr on the left is Roan Fierceheart who is a member of Pyre Fierceshots warband. Pyre used the model on the right; the model all charr use now. Neither of them were a part of the flame legion so it wasn’t just flame legion that stood tall.

Atleast give the magic user that body type…or something..

Actually Scourge, Pyre did not use the model on the right. For the charr, there were about four different models, I think. You had the charr Fire Callers/Wardkeepers, Ash Storms/Chaots, Axe Fiends/Bladestorms/etc., and then finally Stalkers.

Pyre used a modified Stalker model.

Current charr models mostly followed up on Pyre’s designs with some tweaks here and there.

Gmr Leon.1846:

Actually Scourge, Pyre did not use the model on the right. For the charr, there were about four different models, I think. You had the charr Fire Callers/Wardkeepers, Ash Storms/Chaots, Axe Fiends/Bladestorms/etc., and then finally Stalkers.

Pyre used a modified Stalker model.

Current charr models mostly followed up on Pyre’s designs with some tweaks here and there.

Thanks Leon. Yea i didn’t realize that many different body types. When i saw the hunched model they looked the same to me. But clearly Pyres model is not the same as the charr in the right of the picture i posted. It would still be nice to have that tall model though :p.

bump.

I actually don’t mind that Charr and Asura don’t show gender dimorphism in their clothing. Heck, int he case of the Asura, they don’t really have any dimorphism anatomically, so it makes less sense for them to wear different clothing from one another based on gender.

The Sylvari explicitly don’t even consider gender, so I’m really confused as to why they dress differently when the Charr and Asura do not, but I assume it’s because they’re human-shaped and we need sexy MMO girls.

There was a Charr protest but nobody saw anything because of culling.

Viking Jorun.5413:

The Indy games I’ve designed for have been primarily based around beastiality or amphibious characters….

…be-what?

Is that something you want to go around telling people?

As a female charr, i would love to have gear that showed more fur. Gear with beads and feathers!
Showing off more of my beautiful fur would make me so happy

Leo G.4501:

Viking Jorun.5413:

The Indy games I’ve designed for have been primarily based around beastiality or amphibious characters….

…be-what?

Is that something you want to go around telling people?

What the hell? XD. I wrote Bestial. As in furries, but since I know I was on my phone when I wrote that I can safely blame autocorrect. Wow. First time that’s happened to me. Time to turn it off!

cerberus.2196:

As a female charr, i would love to have gear that showed more fur. Gear with beads and feathers!
Showing off more of my beautiful fur would make me so happy

Depends on what your armour class is. The feathered armour shows some fur (light armour). For heavy, I have found a very expensive combination that did show a lot of fur. I’ll see if I can make some screenshots tonight…

So… been playing for almost a year now on my warrior Charr..

And i do love the warrior class but i am kinda KITTEN about the Charr looks/armor clipping problems.
I have grinded fractals soo long just for the ascended back item.. it cost me about 500g to get all the gear and weapon skins + ascended items etc..
But i am stuck! running around with cultural set because well thats the ONLY armor that fits a Charr.. Every other armor from dungeons or even from the Gem store is crap for a Charr.
Shoulders should be a solid thing but instead its like they are made of paper.. taking weird shapes.. (when you run, you see your shoulders even take other forms)
Almost every item does have clipping.. and you know what? Even the cultural have clipping problems!! (tier 3 shoulders lol.. when standing in attack mode your tier 3 chest and legs have HUGE clipping problems)
I like mmorpg’s mostly because of creating a cool looking class for PVE part..
But running around with the same gear with also clipping is soo kitten annoying.
And we all know the Dev’s dont care about Charr.. they will never fix it.

At this point i am doing some PVP for fun mostly and some WvW.. but stuck in PVE.. wanna have other armors that does fit a Charr.. or FIX the ones we have (Omg why not fix the cultural…) maby i am making a new character (yeah also a human like the rest) and do it all over, but at that point i dont think i like this game anymore.

Thanx Anet, fix it or give us a Class change potion or something from gem store.. and delelte Charr after it.

Thank you..