Guild Wars 2

But the group with the “elitists” won’t accept them. They’ll just get booted. I joined an Arah group a couple days ago advertising 4k AP minimum (im like 3960 so I thought screw it why not) and then some guy with like 1.5k AP comes in. Obviously he was booted.

Again, if you have groups saying something like “lf 3m zerkers” and some randoms come along, they’ll either get booted, the group will disband or the randoms will boot the party creator which is just griefing. Make it possible to set some standards and this won’t happen, not everybody wants to play with “play how you want” bads running cleric gear, and those bads don’t want to run with players using good builds.

I’m glad there finally is a dungeon finder, but since I’ve never done a single dungeon I’m now too shy to use it. Maybe eventually I will try it anyway. I wouldn’t worry if there were roles, I’ve always been a good healer, but since there aren’t, I’m afraid I’ll screw up big time and wipe us all if I just jump into the lowest level dungeon and go. Of course that is what youtube videos are for, I’m sure I can look some up before I give it a try.

Mirta.5029:

Geemo.6018:

What a joke. Next generation mmo content that is inferior to content that others created several years ago. Wow’s lfg > Gw2 lfg all day long.

May I ask why? because you get joined with random noobs there without having any choice or say in what qualities you’re searching for in people?
Why are you still here? And why so sour? That you got kicked from several parties? Well people kick others from parties in WoW too.

WoW level up through lfg was a lot of fun. I do not think it will be possible here as it is structured now. Long dungeons were divided into shorter sections and you could only enter at the appropriate level, while at maximum level there were restrictions on the item level and complete the dungeon in normal mode already gave you an idea of how the heroic would be. Here it does not, the story mode does not prepare you for the explorable because is different and leaves you unprepared and inexperienced.
Not to mention that WoW lfg system had some heavy restrictions on kicks because people had started using and abusing it to kick “bads” (or people that did not correspond to their imaginary skill and gear level) and not the griefers as it was supposed to.
I thought these tools were made to encourage players to enter dungeons, not to segregate and discourage them. Even with the limited amount of people currently in beta there are numerous parties who seek only exp people and you know what will happen when they will do it all? That’s right people will lie just to be able to play.
Instead of focusing on hardcore vs casuals or elitist vs bads can we now provide feedback and hope that ArenaNet will fix the lfg in order to satisfy the greatest number of people?

colesy.8490:

But the group with the “elitists” won’t accept them. They’ll just get booted. I joined an Arah group a couple days ago advertising 4k AP minimum (im like 3960 so I thought screw it why not) and then some guy with like 1.5k AP comes in. Obviously he was booted.

Again, if you have groups saying something like “lf 3m zerkers” and some randoms come along, they’ll either get booted, the group will disband or the randoms will boot the party creator which is just griefing. Make it possible to set some standards and this won’t happen, not everybody wants to play with “play how you want” bads running cleric gear, and those bads don’t want to run with players using good builds.

So they get kicked eventually they will learn to read the advertisement. This system is similar how it worked in Guild Wars 1. It worked well there it will work well here too.

But they won’t learn. Almost a year in to the game’s existence I make an LFG for a cof p1 zerk farm (pre-rewards change obviously) and I get a warrior with a rampager’s great sword and another with a rare sword and shield.

Then there’s those times where it’s the inverse and they can’t even fulfill their own LFG – I join a group saying COE p1 experienced only and they all wipe on Alpha, I ask why they didn’t melee and they said ranging is safer.

the tool is fantastic. i just wish we could view other groups while advertising for one.

ellesee.8297:

the tool is fantastic. i just wish we could view other groups while advertising for one.

Apparently you can, but it only shows groups that are smaller than your own (or large enough to let you merge) and only in your dungeon category. Supposedly it helps you merge with similar groups more easily.

I’m having doubts about this feature.

It seems to be region/overflow specific, so that what people type in queens dale isn’t seen in LA. This makes it mostly useless to me. I’d rather use gw2lfg than hop region to region for ppl lfg for some dungeon

Mirta.5029:

Geemo.6018:

What a joke. Next generation mmo content that is inferior to content that others created several years ago. Wow’s lfg > Gw2 lfg all day long.

May I ask why? because you get joined with random noobs there without having any choice or say in what qualities you’re searching for in people?
Why are you still here? And why so sour? That you got kicked from several parties? Well people kick others from parties in WoW too.

Mirta,

I think Geemo is right to some extent.Why?Have you read some of the posts in this thread Mirta?
What is the difference between automated LFG system and a LFG tool where you can write a post but noone will read it and just join?Because from everything that i read so far i can to this conclusion:
1.People don’t or can’t read the post
2.People join and don’t know where are they doing.(It happened to me twice)

There is no difference will a person be kicked before the dungeon is even opened or if using an automated LFG you kick him when the whole group is inside.

With the automated LFG tool i at least don’t expect from people a lot.
But when the LFG is manually used to form groups i expect from them at least to bloody read the post.
Otherwise there is 0 difference between the two systems if people just join randomly on a whim.

anzenketh.3759:

colesy.8490:

But the group with the “elitists” won’t accept them. They’ll just get booted. I joined an Arah group a couple days ago advertising 4k AP minimum (im like 3960 so I thought screw it why not) and then some guy with like 1.5k AP comes in. Obviously he was booted.

Again, if you have groups saying something like “lf 3m zerkers” and some randoms come along, they’ll either get booted, the group will disband or the randoms will boot the party creator which is just griefing. Make it possible to set some standards and this won’t happen, not everybody wants to play with “play how you want” bads running cleric gear, and those bads don’t want to run with players using good builds.

So they get kicked eventually they will learn to read the advertisement. This system is similar how it worked in Guild Wars 1. It worked well there it will work well here too.

I hope you are right Anzeketh.I really do.I want to think that because it is still in beta and not many people have access to it the current grouping is so mhm lets say interesting…

Colesy,
It is NOT elitist behaviour to ask for a specific class if it is that what you need.
For instance the group is doing TA F/U and needs only 1 guard as 5th member.Of course every other class that joins will be kicked.
Or the group needs specifically an ele for AC as last spot and it was perfectly said in the post.I repeat it’s common sense that every other class joining will be replaced.
Or the group is doing FotM lvl38 and wants you to have 40AR minimum.
That is not Elitist behaviour.

I don’t mind newbies as long they tell the group so people can explain them the tacticks.Doing pointless wipes is…
I don’t mind to play with casuals as long they are not being boosted.
I don’t mind playing with non-berzerkers as long they are supporting good enough the group.

Jahroots.6791:

I do agree that a filter by achievement level would be too heavy handed. However I think grouping options similar to those on the website would be helpful to all players.

And here they are.

Extended Run – posts will last for 2 hours. Use for content that is harder to find a group.
Speed Run – get in, get out!
Experienced Only – No newbies. Experienced players only
Newbie – I am new to this event, please be nice!
Doing everything – Why skip content when it is there.
Language Preference – Please post your language preference in the comments.

Covers the basics adequately, without offending or alienating anyone.

Jahroots is right on the track.I wouldn’t mind some miner improvements like he is suggesting

I like the lfg tool. Maybe it could be made better but it is good now. People just need to remember how to read before joining.

ombra.1987:

Even with the limited amount of people currently in beta there are numerous parties who seek only exp people and you know what will happen when they will do it all? That’s right people will lie just to be able to play.
Instead of focusing on hardcore vs casuals or elitist vs bads can we now provide feedback and hope that ArenaNet will fix the lfg in order to satisfy the greatest number of people?

And it’s no fault of the LFG. The same elitists were searching for people with the same requirements on http://www.gw2lfg.com/ and on the map chat. I don’t think that the LFG tool is broken, I think that people that are not elitist pricks shouldn’t be afraid to start their own parties. When I go to a section of LFG and all I see is “exp only” I start mine with the requirements of “Speak English, be relaxed and have fun. No further restrictions ^^”, sure the people that I run with might not be the best and the run itself might drag on sometimes, but at least people don’t rage and keep their mood up

moiraine.2753:

Mirta,

I think Geemo is right to some extent.Why?Have you read some of the posts in this thread Mirta?
What is the difference between automated LFG system and a LFG tool where you can write a post but noone will read it and just join?Because from everything that i read so far i can to this conclusion:
1.People don’t or can’t read the post
2.People join and don’t know where are they doing.(It happened to me twice)

There is no difference will a person be kicked before the dungeon is even opened or if using an automated LFG you kick him when the whole group is inside.

With the automated LFG tool i at least don’t expect from people a lot.
But when the LFG is manually used to form groups i expect from them at least to bloody read the post.
Otherwise there is 0 difference between the two systems if people just join randomly on a whim.

You see I have not yet seen a person that couldn’t read my LFGs. The only way to go around the problem would be to introduce elitist options and that’s not the way to go. I absolutely hated WoW’s system and would never use it. There are some particular people on GW2 that I would never want to run with and if it was automatic grouping I would probably stop using the LFG all together and go back to using http://www.gw2lfg.com/.

anzenketh.3759:

If the tools that the OP is asking for are added then it would be ArenaNet encouraging this type of play. This is what I have agents those features added. If they add the features it would be the equivalent of ArenaNet saying. “Yes we want only level 80’s to run though this dungeon even though the actual level requirement is much lower.” When I can guarantee you that is not how the game is designed to be played. It is designed for that level 80 to run those lower levels around for the ascended materials. To build a community of cooperation and helpfulness.

It is a small vocal majority of the player-base that wants these requirements. They are not needed. If they want to make those type of groups. Type it into the notes. Kick out the non-conformers.

I don’t think it would be encouraging it just providing the tools for the players to easily filter what style of gameplay they are interested in (since people can’t even read p1/2/3).

I don’t think they will put them in for things like AP, but a setting for which path, player level, and gear level I don’t think would be out of the question. Heck just make the max you can put the gear level setting at full rares. That would help TONS.

colesy.8490:

But the group with the “elitists” won’t accept them. They’ll just get booted. I joined an Arah group a couple days ago advertising 4k AP minimum (im like 3960 so I thought screw it why not) and then some guy with like 1.5k AP comes in. Obviously he was booted.

Again, if you have groups saying something like “lf 3m zerkers” and some randoms come along, they’ll either get booted, the group will disband or the randoms will boot the party creator which is just griefing. Make it possible to set some standards and this won’t happen, not everybody wants to play with “play how you want” bads running cleric gear, and those bads don’t want to run with players using good builds.

What I think people are missing is that “play how you want” is a two way street. I don’t bad mouth casuals. I play with them and help them out when I have time. Eliete players don’t bad mouth casuals just for being casual… they just get upset when they are slowed down by people that don’t know what’s up and are under-geared thus messing up their runs (that’s not how they want to play their dungeons).

Yet when I don’t have time and want to speed run I’m now instantly an elitist jerk for wanting to play how I want. I really wish these people that dislike “elitists” would stop and try to look at it from multiple POV’s.

Th tool is awesome.
Having icons for speedclear/full clear and experienced/first timer would be perfect.

Maybe also class/level requirements

But its good already as it is.

LordByron.8369:

Th tool is awesome.
Having icons for speedclear/full clear and experienced/first timer would be perfect.

Maybe also class/level requirements

But its good already as it is.

Even just that would be far better than it is now… there is also a 100% NEED to have it divided up by paths as people just don’t read.

Aberrant.6749:

LordByron.8369:

Th tool is awesome.
Having icons for speedclear/full clear and experienced/first timer would be perfect.

Maybe also class/level requirements

But its good already as it is.

Even just that would be far better than it is now… there is also a 100% NEED to have it divided up by paths as people just don’t read.

This thousand time this ^^

After a few days of LFG in game, this is my experience:

1. Usually is very fast, at times groups fill up so quick I can’t even read their description before deciding if I want to join them. It being so fast is good and bad both – good because you normally don’t have to wait long. Bad, because getting people to fill your group that easily makes them appear as a disposable resource – you don’t like what you get, simply kick and search again.

To avoid kicks, the tool needs more options, like being able to have people either auto join or being allowed to accept / decline. Also an option to only look on same language servers, it is not fun getting into a team which you can’t communicate with.

2. The tool still has some bugs. Like, three guildies and me finished an instance where we had one random join via the tool. The random left after the instance, rest of us stayed teamed but went our merry ways. Then I left our team (I was the one to have opened the instance) and suddenly the others find themselves active in LFG again.

Overall I like the LFG tool, but some of its kinks need straightening out.

I got access to the “tool” yesterday, loaded it up, quick scan, closed it and closed the game

moiraine.2753:

anzenketh.3759:

colesy.8490:

But the group with the “elitists” won’t accept them. They’ll just get booted. I joined an Arah group a couple days ago advertising 4k AP minimum (im like 3960 so I thought screw it why not) and then some guy with like 1.5k AP comes in. Obviously he was booted.

Again, if you have groups saying something like “lf 3m zerkers” and some randoms come along, they’ll either get booted, the group will disband or the randoms will boot the party creator which is just griefing. Make it possible to set some standards and this won’t happen, not everybody wants to play with “play how you want” bads running cleric gear, and those bads don’t want to run with players using good builds.

So they get kicked eventually they will learn to read the advertisement. This system is similar how it worked in Guild Wars 1. It worked well there it will work well here too.

I hope you are right Anzeketh.I really do.I want to think that because it is still in beta and not many people have access to it the current grouping is so mhm lets say interesting…

Colesy,
It is NOT elitist behaviour to ask for a specific class if it is that what you need.
For instance the group is doing TA F/U and needs only 1 guard as 5th member.Of course every other class that joins will be kicked.
Or the group needs specifically an ele for AC as last spot and it was perfectly said in the post.I repeat it’s common sense that every other class joining will be replaced.
Or the group is doing FotM lvl38 and wants you to have 40AR minimum.
That is not Elitist behaviour.

I don’t mind newbies as long they tell the group so people can explain them the tacticks.Doing pointless wipes is…
I don’t mind to play with casuals as long they are not being boosted.
I don’t mind playing with non-berzerkers as long they are supporting good enough the group.

I actually agree with you, hence my use of inverted commas for the word “elitists”.

I’m not really sure why people in this community demonise those who actually have standards.

Tool is great, BUT I want to see who wants to join my group AND I want to decide if I want him in my group. When I look for “berzerkers” I don´t want clerics or condition kitten. Especisally not in PVE. When I look for a Warri, I don´t want a Hunter and when I look for lvl 80 I don´t want a 35! It´s risk enough not to know if the player who joins brings brain at least.
Autojoin is a bad idea

And to ban me from joining groups cause I joined to many groups is the worst thing they ever did. If I see it´s a moron group, I quit as fast as I autojoined. Why does the system punish ME and not the griefers and the people who cannot read!

Bezayne and Schawarzkristall you two have some nice ideas.

Now about entering to many groups in short amount of time i doubt the ban systems will be removed.It will stay so people don’t grief.

Corvindi.5734:

I’m glad there finally is a dungeon finder, but since I’ve never done a single dungeon I’m now too shy to use it. Maybe eventually I will try it anyway. I wouldn’t worry if there were roles, I’ve always been a good healer, but since there aren’t, I’m afraid I’ll screw up big time and wipe us all if I just jump into the lowest level dungeon and go. Of course that is what youtube videos are for, I’m sure I can look some up before I give it a try.

Don’t be put off. A lot of the people in this thread (and the general dungeon community )just have bad attitudes when it comes to pugging. In general the LFG tool has a lot of inexperienced players trying the new content and lots of experienced people willing to bring them along. The elitist attitudes some people put across are harmful to the game, especially when it pushes people away from trying content for fear of a bad experience from these people, but so far the good experiences outweigh the bad ones.

Because the tool isn’t giving people the tools to monopolise it with some elitist attitude (the ability to outright reject people who want to join, you can always kick but that’s extra effort) the path of least resistance is to accept everyone (I’ve only seen people kick non-80 people – regardless of what the post said, and I left those groups immediately) and this is resulting in it becoming easy to find groups and participate in this content.

If it’s a speed clear group you will generally want to avoid them. They are usually the groups with the least pleasant players and the most elitist attitudes. The funny thing is they are quite often some of the worst groups you will ever be part of, most “speed clear” groups are people who are average players and think if they write “speed clear” some magical thing will happen and they will get their loot faster. Let your party know you are new, most dungeon paths have been trivialised by AI and mechanics exploits, if your party knows what to do and has decent builds you can auto attack your way through a lot of dungeon content.

The lfg tool is full of people like you, the only way that will change is if you let the elitists intimidate you from participating.

Shiren.9532:

The lfg tool is full of people like you, the only way that will change is if you let the elitists intimidate you from participating.

The game itself needs to actively stomp elitism. Expecting people to not be discouraged from participating is not going to work, like it hasn’t been working for the last year, so many people don’t even bother to do dungeons because they were given the impression that they are not good enough.

Even all those “go watch youtube” types are doing more damage than helping, although some of them are genuinely trying to be helpful.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dungeons/

“Dungeons in Guild Wars 2 reward players who enjoy organized parties, epic challenges, and delving deeper into the secrets of Tyria.”

This game is stomping skillful play. It’s a heaven for casuals and scrubs.

AntiGw.9367:

The game itself needs to actively stomp elitism.

In one of your previous posts you agreed that everyone can play the way they want, elitists as well. And now you want to restrict one of the ways of playing the game? What a terrible inconsistency.

You made a valid point though. This game does not encourage the masses to take any effort to get better at playing and improve their skill level.

AntiGw.9367:

Shiren.9532:

The lfg tool is full of people like you, the only way that will change is if you let the elitists intimidate you from participating.

The game itself needs to actively stomp elitism. Expecting people to not be discouraged from participating is not going to work, like it hasn’t been working for the last year, so many people don’t even bother to do dungeons because they were given the impression that they are not good enough.

Even all those “go watch youtube” types are doing more damage than helping, although some of them are genuinely trying to be helpful.

No – the game doesn’t need to stomp out anything actively.
Elitism is a trend that came to be because certain parts of the player base want to play a certain way.
You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

This is wrong and it is silly. Each player that has payed money for this game has the right to play it any way he wants.
You want to be a newbie cuddler? go ahead. I want to be an elitist scumbag – that’s my choice and nobody ( no LFG tool or anything ) can take it away from me.

I like the " were given the impression they are not good enough " – like it’s a lie.
THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH. At least not for me.
If they can’t play their class, can’t dodge, can’t figure out CORE GAME MECHANICS then yes – they are not good enough and I’m not going to spend MY time improving their gaming experience.

If I’m supposed to spend ( waste) my time improving other people’s in game experience then how come nobody has bothered to improve mine?
I keep checking my inbox for people sending me gold and exotics but nobody’s doing it.

As the poster above has said – this game has a lot of players that are rather bad and doesn’t force them to improve – so they’ll stay at their current level.
Just because i’m better at the game ( more experienced, have better reflexes- whatever you want to call it ) doesn’t mean I’m supposed to babysit them, spoon-feed them and take care of them until they mature into a decent player.
No. You want to be decent? You have to put in time, effort and dedication.

- Side story -

In GW1 – looking to make a little cash I wanted to start going on FoWSC runs. Nobody I knew did them and I had nobody to teach me. So did I cry about it on the forums or force some of the " elitist" parties running it to take me along? No.

I researched the build and got the skills and gear I needed. I spent around 1-2 hours looking at youtube videos until i understood what the role i was going to play did and where I needed to be at all times.
I then joined a run and – SURPRISE – all that time I put into preparing paid off – it worked without a hitch and that was it.
I put in effort and time – and I improved my game – by myself – not by being a burden to others.

This past weekend I was able to give the LFG tool a good shake down using the tool to for dungeon grouping for SE and HotW. In total I ran each dungeon eight times with six different groups.
Each time I used the tool, I waited no longer than 4-5 minutes to find a group. Each group was great, with no problems or trolls. I have to say, this is much better than standing outside a dungeon entrance or in LA /map calling “lfg”. Having the dungeons be cross server is brilliant.
What I would like to see is a Tab that allows players to post their characters for group leaders to be able to select specific professions. I would still keep the ’hot join" feature that the system has now, but make it optional.

My only complaint is that I am curious as to why this tool wasn’t in at launch? It really is one of the Quality of Life features that any AAA game should have. There’s no reason that as a player I should have to use a 3rd party site to look for groups. None.
(BTW: my Thanks to the guys that made and Maintain gw2lfg.com, you saw a need and you filled it. Too bad the developers did not share that vision at launch)

Sometimes there are groups which post, that they are new to this and looking for someone who likes to explain. Sometimes I like to join those groups but mostly I like to speedclear with a full zerker group. I want to have the possibility to CHOOSE! Of course everyone can play this game and his char as he wants BUT I don´t want to suffer from those in MY Team cause this ppl don´t fit in our group teamwork! Full zerker group works mostly, full condition group sucks always. I want to choose.

Harper.4173:

I put in effort and time – and I improved my game – by myself – not by being a burden to others.

Sure, but you can’t expect the in-game tool to automagically select the people you want, especially as there is no way to tell from someone’s gear, achievements, build, or anything else, that they are competent (well, short of a handful of specific achievements that even great players may have).

As you say yourself, the game does not force people to improve – so you get terrible players with 6k achievements, full zerker, etc. etc.

Actually there is ONE thing which requires good play – deep Fractals – you’re not going to get to Fractal level 50 or whatever without learning to play – but I’m guessing you want super-elite players to speedrun relatively easy content, not to do hard stuff.

I mean, what’s funny here is, we have people like you whinging about ultra-elite and awesome you are (which I’m sure is true), and how much “hard work” you have put in and how people shouldn’t shy away from this “hard work”, yet you are asking for a tool to do your work for you.

Which is pretty ironic.

Surely the tool should be aimed at the sort of casual player who isn’t competent or connected enough to form l337 speedrun groups, no?

I mean, I’ve played at an extremely elite level in a lot of games – DAoC and WoW particularly, whereas I was at the cutting edge PvP-wise and PvE-wise at various times (respectively). I’m a bit older and saner now, so I’m not into that, but if there is one thing I know, it’s that truly elite players know other elite players, and can form groups relatively easily. They don’t need a tool to do it for them. You only need a tool when you are casual or getting started.

So let’s be real – the tool does not need to support exclusion. The only thing I could see being reasonable would be, for Fractals only, a minimum Fractal Level option.

If you just want to speedrun COF for gold and exclude baddies, well, you shouldn’t need a special tool for that. Just do the work and stop being a burden on the devs, as you might say!

Schwarzkristall.3984:

Sometimes there are groups which post, that they are new to this and looking for someone who likes to explain. Sometimes I like to join those groups but mostly I like to speedclear with a full zerker group. I want to have the possibility to CHOOSE! Of course everyone can play this game and his char as he wants BUT I don´t want to suffer from those in MY Team cause this ppl don´t fit in our group teamwork! Full zerker group works mostly, full condition group sucks always. I want to choose.

Then set up a game with the details saying that this is a full zerk speedclear, and ask people to leave if they aren’t up for that. What is too difficult about that for you? If you can’t work up the courage to ask someone to leave, you can hardly complain about this. Sure, you may not be able to kick everyone, but you can ask them to leave.

Or you could just drag them through and take 20 minutes instead of 15 – but surely better that than wasting 5 minutes trying to get the perfect person?

My experience from other games suggests that people generally do what they’re asked to do – so just with-hold any kicks for people who won’t.

Harper.4173:

You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

No, I’m saying this because I’ve seen several games die, and whose deaths were highly accelerated, if not outright caused, by elitism that was left unchecked.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Schwarzkristall.3984:

Sometimes there are groups which post, that they are new to this and looking for someone who likes to explain. Sometimes I like to join those groups but mostly I like to speedclear with a full zerker group. I want to have the possibility to CHOOSE! Of course everyone can play this game and his char as he wants BUT I don´t want to suffer from those in MY Team cause this ppl don´t fit in our group teamwork! Full zerker group works mostly, full condition group sucks always. I want to choose.

Then set up a game with the details saying that this is a full zerk speedclear, and ask people to leave if they aren’t up for that. What is too difficult about that for you? If you can’t work up the courage to ask someone to leave, you can hardly complain about this. Sure, you may not be able to kick everyone, but you can ask them to leave.

Or you could just drag them through and take 20 minutes instead of 15 – but surely better that than wasting 5 minutes trying to get the perfect person?

My experience from other games suggests that people generally do what they’re asked to do – so just with-hold any kicks for people who won’t.

Of course I describe the kind of group I am looking for. For Example:
“lf 3 berserker warriors and 1 Mesmer COE all path”

Then a Hunter, conditonmancer, another guard (and tank of course -.-) join. And of course nobody leaves if I ask … lol…this is rediculous. Are you using the tool?
The last one who joins is a zerker Warri
If I could choose who wants to join my group, that would not happen. So The Zerker Warri and me are suffering from the tardness and impoliteness of the others.
So why is it my fault that you bother me?

We even can´t kick them, two kick replies are not enough

Well if players didn’t suck so much or wanted to play awful playstyles this “elitism” wouldn’t be a problem.

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

AntiGw.9367:

No, I’m saying this because I’ve seen several games die, and whose deaths were highly accelerated, if not outright caused, by elitism that was left unchecked.

Indeed, we need more casual fluff. Casual living world, casual crafting, casual world bosses, casual pvp and now casual dungeons.

Schwarzkristall.3984:

“lf 3 berserker warriors and 1 Mesmer COE all path”

Then a Hunter, conditonmancer, another guard (and tank of course -.-) join. And of course nobody leaves if I ask … lol…this is rediculous. Are you using the tool?
The last one who joins is a zerker Warri
If I could choose who wants to join my group, that would not happen. So The Zerker Warri and me are suffering from the tardness and impoliteness of the others.
So why is it my fault that you bother me?

We even can´t kick them, two kick replies are not enough

So did tell them what the problem was and ask them to leave? You didn’t actually say, and I’m guessing you did not because you used an excuse: “of course nobody leaves if I ask”. But did you ask?

If not, then you need to stop weeping about it.

If you did, tell us what they said.

I am using the tool, but I haven’t had any problems like you’ve described. Everyone I’ve asked to leave has left. I’m guessing you said nothing and then just dropped group. Or did some passive-aggressive complaining then dropped group.

Eurhetemec.9052:

Harper.4173:

I put in effort and time – and I improved my game – by myself – not by being a burden to others.

Sure, but you can’t expect the in-game tool to automagically select the people you want, especially as there is no way to tell from someone’s gear, achievements, build, or anything else, that they are competent (well, short of a handful of specific achievements that even great players may have).

As you say yourself, the game does not force people to improve – so you get terrible players with 6k achievements, full zerker, etc. etc.

Actually there is ONE thing which requires good play – deep Fractals – you’re not going to get to Fractal level 50 or whatever without learning to play – but I’m guessing you want super-elite players to speedrun relatively easy content, not to do hard stuff.

I mean, what’s funny here is, we have people like you whinging about ultra-elite and awesome you are (which I’m sure is true), and how much “hard work” you have put in and how people shouldn’t shy away from this “hard work”, yet you are asking for a tool to do your work for you.

Which is pretty ironic.

Surely the tool should be aimed at the sort of casual player who isn’t competent or connected enough to form l337 speedrun groups, no?

I mean, I’ve played at an extremely elite level in a lot of games – DAoC and WoW particularly, whereas I was at the cutting edge PvP-wise and PvE-wise at various times (respectively). I’m a bit older and saner now, so I’m not into that, but if there is one thing I know, it’s that truly elite players know other elite players, and can form groups relatively easily. They don’t need a tool to do it for them. You only need a tool when you are casual or getting started.

So let’s be real – the tool does not need to support exclusion. The only thing I could see being reasonable would be, for Fractals only, a minimum Fractal Level option.

If you just want to speedrun COF for gold and exclude baddies, well, you shouldn’t need a special tool for that. Just do the work and stop being a burden on the devs, as you might say!

Someone’s gear and AP number – are a fairly decent indicator of competence.
People didn’t just suck their way to 8k AP. They must be doing something right.
If nothing else it gives an indication of how much time they are willing to put in the game and how serious they take it.
In lack of anything else I’ll take this.
I’d rather risk taking an 8k AP player with me in a run than risk taking a 2k AP player with me.
The 8k AP tell a lot – he has put a lot of time in the game, he’s been playing for a long time – both of which mean there’s a higher chance he knows what he’s doing.

As to what I want the super-elite players in terms of content.
I don’t divide the content into hard and easy. I divide it into profitable and non-profitable. And I want good players for the profitable part. The other part I don’t even do.

The tool should cater to the casuals- sure – but give non-casual players options. Maybe it’ll make for smoother runs and provide incentive for players to get better.

Here’s the deal – you’re right – elite players know other elite playes – but I’m not here to sync schedules.
The tool should provide the option for me to create a group based on certain criteria- those who can qualify get in and we start a smooth and well organized run.
My schedule is erratic. I’m not here to start organizing things. I want to get in – get the stuff done as fast as possible with as little effort as possible and get out.

As far as being a burden for the devs – check again.
I’m playing THEIR game, I’ve bought it – I’ve spent a lot of cash on gems – I’m not being a burden – I’m giving them money and time despite their best efforts to kick me off.

colesy.8490:

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

This is really an incredibly silly attitude for GW2. If you like elitism, there are dozens of games which support it extremely strong.

GW2 never has, and is never likely to.

You are like an olympic-level marathon runner going to the London Marathon and screaming that every runner except the elite needs “get good or get off the road!”. No, they don’t. That’s not how it works.

It’s not like what you’re asking for requires skill, either – it requires gear and specific builds, not skill. So let’s drop the attitude and stop pretending skill is the issue, not gearing.

moiraine.2753:

anzenketh.3759:

colesy.8490:

But the group with the “elitists” won’t accept them. They’ll just get booted. I joined an Arah group a couple days ago advertising 4k AP minimum (im like 3960 so I thought screw it why not) and then some guy with like 1.5k AP comes in. Obviously he was booted.

Again, if you have groups saying something like “lf 3m zerkers” and some randoms come along, they’ll either get booted, the group will disband or the randoms will boot the party creator which is just griefing. Make it possible to set some standards and this won’t happen, not everybody wants to play with “play how you want” bads running cleric gear, and those bads don’t want to run with players using good builds.

So they get kicked eventually they will learn to read the advertisement. This system is similar how it worked in Guild Wars 1. It worked well there it will work well here too.

I hope you are right Anzeketh.I really do.I want to think that because it is still in beta and not many people have access to it the current grouping is so mhm lets say interesting…

I hope I am right too. I also hope they add some more communication features into the tool so that those that want to ask if they would be willing to accept someone into a group say not so experienced but willing to listen and listen well. The player can communicate with the group to see if it is ok before clicking join.

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

No, I’m saying this because I’ve seen several games die, and whose deaths were highly accelerated, if not outright caused, by elitism that was left unchecked.

In case you haven’t noticed elitism is this game’s smallest problem.

Check :

Gear Grind.
Daily Grind.
Time Gating.
No expansions.
Living story adding temporary content.
Zergfesting everything instead of any challenging permanent content being added in the game.
Diluted lore.

These are this game’s real problems.
Elitism – is somewhere at the bottom of the list – and honestly it isn’t a problem.
When faced with an elitist exclusion a player can go one of two ways :

1)Cry and leave.
2)Improve himself and become part of the community that’s being “elite”.

Do we really need people in category 1? If you’re going to play the game at the same skill ( experience/ competence) level you were playing when you first started – why are you even here?

Harper.4173:

Maybe it’ll make for smoother runs and provide incentive for players to get better.

How would it possibly do that if you separate the best players off from everyone else? Without the good players to teach the rest, things will not change, don’t be silly.

Harper.4173:

Here’s the deal – you’re right – elite players know other elite playes – but I’m not here to sync schedules.

The tool should provide the option for me to create a group based on certain criteria- those who can qualify get in and we start a smooth and well organized run.

My schedule is erratic. I’m not here to start organizing things. I want to get in – get the stuff done as fast as possible with as little effort as possible and get out.

There’s no reason that the tool should do that. The devs aren’t here to cater to your erratic schedule ahead of making the tool work for the majority of their playerbase. If you want to get in and get things done, you should do it the way you always have been.

You simply cannot go on about the value of hard work and then refuse to do what is actual pretty minimal organising. Set up a website for elites looking for elites if you care that much! Or wait for someone else to do it. But don’t demand the devs make a tool exclusionary to support what is probably 1-5% of their playerbase (some of whom CROW about never having bought gems!).

Harper.4173:

As far as being a burden for the devs – check again.
I’m playing THEIR game, I’ve bought it – I’ve spent a lot of cash on gems – I’m not being a burden – I’m giving them money and time despite their best efforts to kick me off.

It’s not likely you spend more money than casual players, though – in fact every other cash-shop MMO (f2p or b2p) that isn’t a Korean grinder suggests casual players and mid-casuals are the key spenders. I’m sure that’s especially true here, where gold can, eventually, buy anything in the cash shop.

Harper.4173:

AntiGw.9367:

Harper.4173:

You’re saying the game should basically oppose our way of playing just because it’s different than yours. Or because it doesn’t adhere to your ideas and policies about what the game should be like.

No, I’m saying this because I’ve seen several games die, and whose deaths were highly accelerated, if not outright caused, by elitism that was left unchecked.

In case you haven’t noticed elitism is this game’s smallest problem.

Check :

Gear Grind.
Daily Grind.
Time Gating.
No expansions.
Living story adding temporary content.
Zergfesting everything instead of any challenging permanent content being added in the game.
Diluted lore.

These are this game’s real problems.
Elitism – is somewhere at the bottom of the list – and honestly it isn’t a problem.
When faced with an elitist exclusion a player can go one of two ways :

1)Cry and leave.
2)Improve himself and become part of the community that’s being “elite”.

Do we really need people in category 1? If you’re going to play the game at the same skill ( experience/ competence) level you were playing when you first started – why are you even here?

Issue is, Anet wants the people in category 1.

Because they’re easy to satisfy (see: Zergfesting everything instead of any challenging permanent content being added in the game. Living story adding temporary content.), they pay more in the cash shop for convenience items, they don’t care if some things are “off” (Diluted lore. No expansions.) and most of the time don’t care about (Gear Grind. Daily Grind. Time Gating.) because “It’s optional”.

Easy and cheap to satisfy and keep playing, yet very profitable trough CS items.

What do you want more kitten out of players?

(warning: might contain traces of hyperbole, generalization and sarcasm.)

colesy.8490:

Well if players didn’t suck so much or wanted to play awful playstyles this “elitism” wouldn’t be a problem.

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

Having established that I’m “bad” and we won’t EVER run together (I recommend you block me so that it’s not a risk), I think that part of the problem is that your version of “not bad” is incredibly narrow. Basically if it’s not optimal it’s bad. No middle ground, no variation, no fun.

That’s cool with your guild or on an advertised speed run (which, really you should only do with people you know). Not cool in pugs.

Eurhetemec.9052:

colesy.8490:

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

This is really an incredibly silly attitude for GW2. If you like elitism, there are dozens of games which support it extremely strong.

GW2 never has, and is never likely to.

You are like an olympic-level marathon runner going to the London Marathon and screaming that every runner except the elite needs “get good or get off the road!”. No, they don’t. That’s not how it works.

It’s not like what you’re asking for requires skill, either – it requires gear and specific builds, not skill. So let’s drop the attitude and stop pretending skill is the issue, not gearing.

And yet most PUGs can’t dodge even if their life depended on it. There is a skill element to the game, people just prefer to shut off their brains, and then when they wipe have no idea why they did and refuse to use any good builds because “well it’s just cookie-cutter, I’m going to be hipster with my terribad condi build”.

Having established that I’m “bad” and we won’t EVER run together (I recommend you block me so that it’s not a risk), I think that part of the problem is that your version of “not bad” is incredibly narrow. Basically if it’s not optimal it’s bad. No middle ground, no variation, no fun.

That’s cool with your guild or on an advertised speed run (which, really you should only do with people you know). Not cool in pugs.

Oh look, it’s the “people who want to play good can’t have fun” argument. If you’re going to say something as wrong as that, don’t bother posting.

colesy.8490:

Eurhetemec.9052:

colesy.8490:

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

This is really an incredibly silly attitude for GW2. If you like elitism, there are dozens of games which support it extremely strong.

GW2 never has, and is never likely to.

You are like an olympic-level marathon runner going to the London Marathon and screaming that every runner except the elite needs “get good or get off the road!”. No, they don’t. That’s not how it works.

It’s not like what you’re asking for requires skill, either – it requires gear and specific builds, not skill. So let’s drop the attitude and stop pretending skill is the issue, not gearing.

And yet most PUGs can’t dodge even if their life depended on it. There is a skill element to the game, people just prefer to shut off their brains, and then when they wipe have no idea why they did and refuse to use any good builds because “well it’s just cookie-cutter, I’m going to be hipster with my terribad condi build”.

I’ve never run with anyone that bad (no dodging). But you run more dungeons than i do.

I should also add that in my above post where I said your variation was slim, I don’t mean PVT or Condi builds. I’m talking about straight up zerkers than don’t use the weapon / traits that you like.

Harper.4173:

When faced with an elitist exclusion a player can go one of two ways :

1)Cry and leave.
2)Improve himself and become part of the community that’s being “elite”.

Do we really need people in category 1? If you’re going to play the game at the same skill ( experience/ competence) level you were playing when you first started – why are you even here?

Yes we do need those people – they are are majority of the playerbase, and the majority of the gem-buyers! That is a ridiculous position to hold, Harper.

Also, nice attempt to exclude the middle – obviously most players are better than they were – yet nowhere near your standard or you wouldn’t even be complaining.

Finally, if you’ve experienced games where elitism became a big thing, you know perfectly well that 2) is false, because instead of that happening, the elite crew just raise the bar and exclude just as many people as ever. I know, I’ve been one of them. This is especially true in games where elitism is more spec/gear based than skill – and GW2 is one of those.

As for elitism being at the bottom of the list – no, it isn’t – it’s one of the main reasons that very few players do dungeons – which means the game is failing to get people into some content that is meant to be showcasing it. That that content is being wasted because people are afraid of exclusion.

You are only justifying that fear.

colesy.8490:

And yet most PUGs can’t dodge even if their life depended on it. There is a skill element to the game, people just prefer to shut off their brains, and then when they wipe have no idea why they did and refuse to use any good builds because “well it’s just cookie-cutter, I’m going to be hipster with my terribad condi build”.

Colesy, you’re proving my point – gear and builds are what the problem is here.

I don’t agree re: “most PUGs” not being able to dodge – most of them can. The problems stem from either:

A) They’re learning content that is new to them.

or

B) They have poor gear (like, green or blue, not necessarily bad choices – can be that too of course) and thus the fights take longer and eventually they screw up.

Most Zerker speedrun-type players I’ve come across are fairly mediocre players in terms of dodging and so on – this is super-obvious when you play with them in PvP and they fail ultra-hard. But they checkbox their way to specific gear and spec, and press the right buttons, and because the group comp is very specific, everything dies so far that their skill isn’t an issue.

Further, GW2 is terrible at explaining why people wipe, so unless you tell them, no-one will ever learn. Don’t want to teach? Then you have to only play with people you know. No different in GW2 to anything MMO.

TooBz.3065:

colesy.8490:

Eurhetemec.9052:

colesy.8490:

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

This is really an incredibly silly attitude for GW2. If you like elitism, there are dozens of games which support it extremely strong.

GW2 never has, and is never likely to.

You are like an olympic-level marathon runner going to the London Marathon and screaming that every runner except the elite needs “get good or get off the road!”. No, they don’t. That’s not how it works.

It’s not like what you’re asking for requires skill, either – it requires gear and specific builds, not skill. So let’s drop the attitude and stop pretending skill is the issue, not gearing.

And yet most PUGs can’t dodge even if their life depended on it. There is a skill element to the game, people just prefer to shut off their brains, and then when they wipe have no idea why they did and refuse to use any good builds because “well it’s just cookie-cutter, I’m going to be hipster with my terribad condi build”.

I’ve never run with anyone that bad (no dodging). But you run more dungeons than i do.

I should also add that in my above post where I said your variation was slim, I don’t mean PVT or Condi builds. I’m talking about straight up zerkers than don’t use the weapon / traits that you like.

To offer you an example, a warrior camping GS is bad even if they’re in full zerker because while they think they’re getting nice DPS with HB/WW, they’re not actually understanding that it’s meant to be used as part of a rotation, that the autoattack damage is weaker than their axe, and that big number doesn’t always equal big damage (case in point – phantasmal warden has pretty average DPS but it gives big number).

colesy.8490:

TooBz.3065:

colesy.8490:

Eurhetemec.9052:

colesy.8490:

I’m sick of people making excuses for bads, get good or get out.

This is really an incredibly silly attitude for GW2. If you like elitism, there are dozens of games which support it extremely strong.

GW2 never has, and is never likely to.

You are like an olympic-level marathon runner going to the London Marathon and screaming that every runner except the elite needs “get good or get off the road!”. No, they don’t. That’s not how it works.

It’s not like what you’re asking for requires skill, either – it requires gear and specific builds, not skill. So let’s drop the attitude and stop pretending skill is the issue, not gearing.

And yet most PUGs can’t dodge even if their life depended on it. There is a skill element to the game, people just prefer to shut off their brains, and then when they wipe have no idea why they did and refuse to use any good builds because “well it’s just cookie-cutter, I’m going to be hipster with my terribad condi build”.

I’ve never run with anyone that bad (no dodging). But you run more dungeons than i do.

I should also add that in my above post where I said your variation was slim, I don’t mean PVT or Condi builds. I’m talking about straight up zerkers than don’t use the weapon / traits that you like.

To offer you an example, a warrior camping GS is bad even if they’re in full zerker because while they think they’re getting nice DPS with HB/WW, they’re not actually understanding that it’s meant to be used as part of a rotation, that the autoattack damage is weaker than their axe, and that big number doesn’t always equal big damage (case in point – phantasmal warden has pretty average DPS but it gives big number).

Two points, first, no check box or gear selection option on a LFG tool is going to weed out that kind of “bad.” Second, I think those expectations are best kept to speed runs with people you know.

It works the same way with WvW. If I’m with my guild, we all know what to do and can wipe a normal zerg twice our size. If I’m running with a random zerg, my expectations are lowered.

TooBz.3065:

Two points, first, no check box or gear selection option on a LFG tool is going to weed out that kind of “bad.” Second, I think those expectations are best kept to speed runs with people you know.

It works the same way with WvW. If I’m with my guild, we all know what to do and can wipe a normal zerg twice our size. If I’m running with a random zerg, my expectations are lowered.

Yep. If that’s the standard people want, no tool in the world will even help with that apart from the dreaded FRIENDS LIST, which this game already has.