Guild Wars 2

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

Why do you care if some people want to run with only experienced people. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you are new, as i said before, join a guild and ask there or join one of the groups that say anyone welcome and have fun with those 1 hr ac p3 runs. The only thing i disagree with is the AP requirement because that just shows people enjoy doing the faceroll LS content.

Because every person has a duty to be understanding to every other person. I was taught this since I was born, and am told it used to be common knowledge. People need help, you help them, because you are their equal and partner and they are yours, when you help anyone the world improves and you have helped everyone, including yourself. If you refuse that, it is because you set yourself above those who need help. Why that idea seems to be not only alien these days, but maligned with extreme prejudice is beyond me.

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

What we are discussing is the design of the LFG tool.

It’s designed to find you any group fast, not to find you a highly specialized “elite” group slowly.

Joining a guild is more suitable for slowly searching highly specialized people. Slowly searching is not within the scope of the LFG tool as it’s currently designed.

Anything unclear?

Got a quote that says that’s what it’s designed for and that it shouldn’t be used for anything else other than total randoms who can’t even be bothered to read what path the group wants to do?

There’s an entire dev twitch that explains what it’s designed for and what it’s not designed for.

I may be misinterpreting some of the things they say or imply, but I’m pretty sure the post you quoted is fairly accurate.

It even explains that you can kick randoms who don’t read your description, and they can even get suspended if they try to join you again.

Conncept.7638:

Glad to hear you help players, as do I. But with the amount of players who help ‘kitteny’ players to the amount who do not, the majority are going to be ‘kitteny’ players forever.

And yes, frankly, helping people, being kind and unselfish and treating people with respect is superior to being a royal prick who thinks of no one but himself. It is a fact, and I will say so without hesitation or embarrassment. These exclusive groups may have five people, but each is thinking of himself and no one else, or else they would not exclusively work in such groups in the first place.

And frankly, nothing is more immature than believing being a royal prick is requisite for being an adult.

Ok long post coming up, i didnt want to type this but here it goes.
Now a couple moths ago i was a kitten player. I had just gotten to level 80 on my warrior and was watching Dontain’s videos for god knows what reason. I spent like a week getting enough gold and karma to get a full set of pvt armor for a shout heal build. The first couple of dungeons i did, after watching guides mind you, didnt mind my terribad build because they probably didnt realize how bad it was. they should have though because i was using sword shield and gs because i thought that was cool looking. Anyways long story short i got kicked from a group in TA because someone told me i had a bad build and i should be using zerker. So what did i do? i went ahead and researched zerker builds and found Nike’s build on gw2guru and worked to get the gear for it. I also started to watch his guilds speed runs and eventually became a better player. If it hadnt been for those darned elitists who kicked me i would still be a terrible warrior and player in general. People who accept anyone and everyone into their group may be helping with the niceness in gw2 but not the skill. Firstly there are enough groups that dont need you to be experienced to join so thats not an issue. Secondly groups that dont explain to people their builds are bad are hurting those terribad players from ever joining experienced groups.And for your information i have told people their builds need improvement and what did i recieve. A very nice kick in the kitten .

So go ahead and preach your ideology but understand that experienced groups are there for a reason, for people who enjoy the game and are good to be able to have dungeon runs that dont take hours, especially when they have limited time. I thought that last post would stop you from continuing to debate a non issue but clearly it didnt. Let people play the way they want and stop trying to force your opinions on others.

@ Conncept… isn’t it even more selfish to impose yourself onto 4 other people who are all wanting to do something with like minded intents (speed)? I’m nice and help players when I have the time. However… I shouldn’t be forced to do so (which would lead to me and other players not having enough time to do what they want).

If you’re uber casual, no one has an inherant problem with that. It’s only if you’re uber casual and you join a party that clearly states they want speed runs when it’s a problem. Those sorts of players have many other parties that aren’t looking to do speed runs to choose from (or they can post themselves).

I wouldn’t join a casual party and tell them to hurry up (that would be mean)… so why is it all of a sudden the speed players that are mean when they don’t want to be slowed down?

Seriously people… what is so wrong with players playing with others that have the same goals? Why does this make the ones that want to speed run elitist/horrid people/whatever?

AntiGw.9367:

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

What we are discussing is the design of the LFG tool.

It’s designed to find you any group fast, not to find you a highly specialized “elite” group slowly.

Joining a guild is more suitable for slowly searching highly specialized people. Slowly searching is not within the scope of the LFG tool as it’s currently designed.

Anything unclear?

Got a quote that says that’s what it’s designed for and that it shouldn’t be used for anything else other than total randoms who can’t even be bothered to read what path the group wants to do?

There’s an entire dev twitch that explains what it’s designed for and what it’s not designed for.

I may be misinterpreting some of the things they say or imply, but I’m pretty sure the post you quoted is fairly accurate.

It even explains that you can kick randoms who don’t read your description, and they can even get suspended if they try to join you again.

I don’t remember hearing them say that it wasn’t OK to ask for specific types of players in that twitch, but I could have missed it.

IMO them adding in more filters to prevent needing to kick randoms who don’t read would be a better solution Vs. wait until they do it to the point where it’s harassment and then reporting them for it. Even if it was just for the different paths speed run or casual run etc. would be huge improvements.

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

Glad to hear you help players, as do I. But with the amount of players who help ‘kitteny’ players to the amount who do not, the majority are going to be ‘kitteny’ players forever.

And yes, frankly, helping people, being kind and unselfish and treating people with respect is superior to being a royal prick who thinks of no one but himself. It is a fact, and I will say so without hesitation or embarrassment. These exclusive groups may have five people, but each is thinking of himself and no one else, or else they would not exclusively work in such groups in the first place.

And frankly, nothing is more immature than believing being a royal prick is requisite for being an adult.

Ok long post coming up, i didnt want to type this but here it goes.
Now a couple moths ago i was a kitten player. I had just gotten to level 80 on my warrior and was watching Dontain’s videos for god knows what reason. I spent like a week getting enough gold and karma to get a full set of pvt armor for a shout heal build. The first couple of dungeons i did, after watching guides mind you, didnt mind my terribad build because they probably didnt realize how bad it was. they should have though because i was using sword shield and gs because i thought that was cool looking. Anyways long story short i got kicked from a group in TA because someone told me i had a bad build and i should be using zerker. So what did i do? i went ahead and researched zerker builds and found Nike’s build on gw2guru and worked to get the gear for it. I also started to watch his guilds speed runs and eventually became a better player. If it hadnt been for those darned elitists who kicked me i would still be a terrible warrior and player in general. People who accept anyone and everyone into their group may be helping with the niceness in gw2 but not the skill. Firstly there are enough groups that dont need you to be experienced to join so thats not an issue. Secondly groups that dont explain to people their builds are bad are hurting those terribad players from ever joining experienced groups.And for your information i have told people their builds need improvement and what did i recieve. A very nice kick in the kitten .

So go ahead and preach your ideology but understand that experienced groups are there for a reason, for people who enjoy the game and are good to be able to have dungeon runs that dont take hours, especially when they have limited time. I thought that last post would stop you from continuing to debate a non issue but clearly it didnt. Let people play the way they want and stop trying to force your opinions on others.

That’s the biggest load of nonsense yet. You didn’t become a better player, you bent over and played the whipping boy. You aren’t playing how ‘you want to’, you caved and are playing the way you’ve been ordered to. I don’t take orders from those who have neither right nor authority to give any, we are equals. And I see no logical or moral merit in anything you did.

You know how I learned? I told groups I had whatever stats they wanted to hear I had, broke up dozens of groups for every one I completed a dungeon with when I first started. Didn’t change my build for anybody, because I actually play the way I want to. And I don’t feel bad about it at all. Was I ruining their play experience? Probably. What is that to denying anyone a play experience at all? Pretty much the same. Not proud of it but as I said earlier in the thread, the amount of patience these elitist groups require others to have while having none themselves justifies some forced action.

And after a few completed runs through each dungeon path I’ve done (still have a few left, and then there are some that just don’t interest me), people weren’t quitting the groups and weren’t even noticing that I didn’t have the build they wanted, because I was just as capable as them in their ‘elite builds’. I was even frequently leading, and as I said I can now instruct new players on quite a few paths.

In short, I am letting people play the way they want, demanding it in fact, it is you and those you are defending who are not.

Berner.7289:

mexay.3902:

People here are missing the point. It’s not about being ‘elitist’

It’s about people reading and allowing the group leader to accept invites. Plain and simple.

As soon as you use the LFG tool, its not your group and you’re not the leader. The sooner you learn that, the less whiny you’ll be on the forums.

It is my group, that’s why I have the option to accept or reject your offer to join. If I don’t like you, I’m going to kick you. I’ll kick you at the start, so we don’t waste each others time. If that really bothers you, block me. Instead of shoving your ideas of what pugging should be down my throat and co-opting my group, why don’t you let me play my way and ill let you play yours?

Conncept.7638:

champ.7021:

Oh and thanks for ruining peoples dungeon experiences. And dont think that because you got away with your build you were as good as “elites”. most likely you werent running with any actual elites just people who wanted moderately good runs and probably couldnt tell how bad your dps was.

The kitten is strong with this one…

irony at its finest. Also lets not digress from this topic by reducing ourselves to children and start bickering and telling each other we’re taking it in the kitten .

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

champ.7021:

Oh and thanks for ruining peoples dungeon experiences. And dont think that because you got away with your build you were as good as “elites”. most likely you werent running with any actual elites just people who wanted moderately good runs and probably couldnt tell how bad your dps was.

The kitten is strong with this one…

irony at its finest. Also lets not digress from this topic by reducing ourselves to children and start bickering and telling each other we’re taking it in the kitten .

Says the person who insists his inability to work properly without a cookie-cutter build means others mustn’t be able to either. My build works fine, yours probably would have too if you had stuck with it.

Part of the fun is discovering things for yourself, and if you don’t like that, the LFG tool is not for you. Find an “experienced” group in map chat.Part of the fun is discovering things for yourself, and if you don’t like that, the LFG tool is not for you. Find an “experienced” group in map chat.

And what’s the problem with groups asking for experienced players? Does that stop you joining groups without such requirement? You can still join or create a group to do a first run of a dungeon. I agree with you that’s much fun to run a dungeon without viewing a guide, but I don’t expect experienced groups to accept me in such case (which, TBH, would kill the fun for me, it would be the same as watching a guide, even worse). At the same time, if I want to run a dungeon I’m already experienced with, I’m certainly not always in the mood of having to teach someone.

I really don’t see why different kind of groups can’t use the LFG tool. Isn’t that elitism in itself? So people complain about “elitist” groups, but then they want those groups to not use the LFG tool?

You know how I learned? I told groups I had whatever stats they wanted to hear I had, broke up dozens of groups for every one I completed a dungeon with when I first started. Didn’t change my build for anybody, because I actually play the way I want to. And I don’t feel bad about it at all. Was I ruining their play experience? Probably. What is that to denying anyone a play experience at all? Pretty much the same. Not proud of it but as I said earlier in the thread, the amount of patience these elitist groups require others to have while having none themselves justifies such actions.

And why, instead of recurring to lying to people, don’t you search for people with the same objectives/play style as you? That way you don’t ruin other’s play experience and you play the way you want. You really sound very selfish.

Seriously people… what is so wrong with players playing with others that have the same goals?

Really, this.

Man this guy is worse than vayne. I mean at least vayne has logical arguments, although i dont agree with them, they are logical and he is smart about the way he phrases them. He also has some form of reading comprehension. VAYNE WHERE ARE YOU I NEED YOU TO BE THE YIN TO MY YANG.

oh and the most ironic thing of all, he said i was taking it into the kitten by using a cookie cutter build. Isnt that just discrimination in its own way. You just assume that people using builds that are meta are bad payers who capitulate to the whims of experienced players. Not people who like to quickly finish things and want effective builds so they might one day be able to get into speed running groups…

Your build is hipster congrats. You arent cookie cutter with the dps scepter dagger (which isnt really cookie cutter and neither is dps guard which i have been trying to tell you but you wont listen) you also arent helpful to most groups.

Also stop assuming what builds i like. That is the worst thing you can do. You are about as bad as those terrible elitists (these are actually the bad kind of elitists) who assume all engineers / necros are bad.

i deleted my posts because i realized they werent adding to this discussion. We were just going back and forth in a flame war and im pretty sure this thread would be closed and locked if this keeps up.
i only deleted my rant btw not my main argument. If you want here is my rant in a nutshell. I dont like you assuming you know what cookie cutter builds are. If you want to be terrible be that way but dont act as if you understand other classes just because you think everyone who runs zerker likes to “$$$$$$$COF P1 Zerker only $$$$$$$$”. You are being elitist in your own way thinking that those who choose the effective path are below you. As Brazil once said, the worst elitists are casuals who look down upon others who want fast runs and great dps. Aaah now my guts have exploded trying to deal with a person who lacks in reading comprehension and is proving to be a worse elitist than the OP.

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

champ.7021:

Oh and thanks for ruining peoples dungeon experiences. And dont think that because you got away with your build you were as good as “elites”. most likely you werent running with any actual elites just people who wanted moderately good runs and probably couldnt tell how bad your dps was.

The kitten is strong with this one…

irony at its finest. Also lets not digress from this topic by reducing ourselves to children and start bickering and telling each other we’re taking it in the kitten .

Says the person who insists his inability to work properly without a cookie-cutter build means others mustn’t be able to either.

I told you my builds, please tell me yours so i can understand where you are coming from. And if you had reading comprehension you would understand that zerker guardians are not really cookie cutter. Most just stick to their ah builds and stand around doing low dps but helping out their bad at dodging team mates.

30/10/30/0/0 SD elementalist, Rabid gear, condition duration runes and sigils, full glyph suite of utilities

Yep, horrible stat combo (the precision is completely useless, but I’m working on Dire now), no points in either of the trees that everybody insists eles must have. And glyphs, skills most eles consider so bad they barely even know what they do.

I run through dungeons with this now, and it’s only going to get better as I get more and more dire gear. You can play what build you want, through any dungeon you want, if you stick with it and have a group willing to teach. And no, videos and guides do not cut it. But the people you have emulated and are now defending have broken that system to where far too many players do not participate in dungeons at all. Congratulations! You’re part of the problem.

And everybody using the exact same gear and traits, is the definition of cookie-cutter. Their ability to dodge has nothing to do with it, and from my experience is rarely if ever impressive.

And to your above rant, I have no problems with anybody running any build they like. But you didn’t run what build you like, you caved and ran something else to fit in. I merely have a problem with people who refuse to allow others to play the way they wish, and if that group of people identifies with a certain build, I am going to identify them by that build.

EDIT: And he doesn’t have the guts to respond except in deleting his argument and editing his post… stay classy

Aris.7492:

And why, instead of recurring to lying to people, don’t you search for people with the same objectives/play style as you? That way you don’t ruin other’s play experience and you play the way you want. You really sound very selfish.

Because there weren’t any. And yes it was, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. I wasn’t getting anywhere searching for a group I would find at most once a week, who were largely just as new with dungeons as I was.

I have this problem in WoW… They released the “Flexible Raid mode” and I was willing to give it a shot…

First day all I see is “520ilvl required” when I’m at 505. I promptly gave up. I bet by now (2 weeks later) it’s up to “550ilvl required and must know fights, pm me achievement for killing Garrosh to get invite”

mexay.3902:

To make it perfectly clear…

I have no issue teaching people, but there is a time and place. A large amount of the community sees Arah P2 as a higher tier dungeon, not something that a casual would do.

I have no issue running with randoms. I do however have an issue with:

People who can’t play their class
People who can’t dodge
People who can’t understand new mechanics
People who join without reading the kittening description

The main issue is people joining without reading the description. I don’t expect everyone to be super elite mlg minmaxed full ascended extra super zerk full legendary scholar runes. I expect people to read the description. I expect people to use the tool correctly, not just ‘Hot join on enter’ and let anyone into the group.

The reason why people usually ask for what I said in OP, is because those people don’t want to have to teach people their class, the dungeon, the game mechanics, etc.

Like, I shouldn’t be having to explain to a level 80 Warrior why running 5 signets is garbage and asking them to change their build.

Don’t go flinging around the terms ‘elitist’ and things like that. It’s not about elitism, it’s about wanting to group with people who actually care about the people in their group. I.e “I’m not going to just semi-afk through the run because that would be unfair to the people in my party” things like that.

My (and others) reasoning for AP:

AP is a general indication for how long a player has been playing the game. Typically someone with ~3k AP has been playing long enough to understand most basic mechanics of the game. For example, you’ll usually look at someone with 0 – 500 AP and think they’re new. I’ve almost always been correct in assuming a player’s skill level based on their AP level. It simply comes down to experience over time. You don’t get 10,000 AP by being a scrub.

But me at I only have 2.5k exp and I consider myself a pretty decent player in wvw when I can 2/3v1 and win. lol anyways but kitten dude. You started some flame war in here :p xD

Banzie.5248:

mexay.3902:

To make it perfectly clear…

I have no issue teaching people, but there is a time and place. A large amount of the community sees Arah P2 as a higher tier dungeon, not something that a casual would do.

I have no issue running with randoms. I do however have an issue with:

People who can’t play their class
People who can’t dodge
People who can’t understand new mechanics
People who join without reading the kittening description

The main issue is people joining without reading the description. I don’t expect everyone to be super elite mlg minmaxed full ascended extra super zerk full legendary scholar runes. I expect people to read the description. I expect people to use the tool correctly, not just ‘Hot join on enter’ and let anyone into the group.

The reason why people usually ask for what I said in OP, is because those people don’t want to have to teach people their class, the dungeon, the game mechanics, etc.

Like, I shouldn’t be having to explain to a level 80 Warrior why running 5 signets is garbage and asking them to change their build.

Don’t go flinging around the terms ‘elitist’ and things like that. It’s not about elitism, it’s about wanting to group with people who actually care about the people in their group. I.e “I’m not going to just semi-afk through the run because that would be unfair to the people in my party” things like that.

My (and others) reasoning for AP:

AP is a general indication for how long a player has been playing the game. Typically someone with ~3k AP has been playing long enough to understand most basic mechanics of the game. For example, you’ll usually look at someone with 0 – 500 AP and think they’re new. I’ve almost always been correct in assuming a player’s skill level based on their AP level. It simply comes down to experience over time. You don’t get 10,000 AP by being a scrub.

But me at I only have 2.5k exp and I consider myself a pretty decent player in wvw when I can 2/3v1 and win. lol anyways but kitten dude. You started some flame war in here :p xD

Bloody scrub Karn. I only asked for AP because I was unsure about the LFG system and didn't want to get grouped with people that don't know how to dodge

mexay.3902:

Bloody scrub Karn. I only asked for AP because I was unsure about the LFG system and didn't want to get grouped with people that don't know how to dodge

Since this whole thread was about LFG not about elitists or me arguing about my build and being butt!hurt have you actually had any good experiences with LFG. From what i see we cant judge the full potential because theyre arent enough people using it yet to get a good group everytime. That being said all my groups so far have been pretty terrible. Like people only speaking french or people who dont listen when you say stack in TA u/u

Aris.7492:

And what’s the problem with groups asking for experienced players? Does that stop you joining groups without such requirement? You can still join or create a group to do a first run of a dungeon. I agree with you that’s much fun to run a dungeon without viewing a guide, but I don’t expect experienced groups to accept me in such case (which, TBH, would kill the fun for me, it would be the same as watching a guide, even worse). At the same time, if I want to run a dungeon I’m already experienced with, I’m certainly not always in the mood of having to teach someone.

From my perspective, the problem is on a wider scale. The whole “experienced players only” thing turns into a thing. Something that everyone does. Where does that leave the people without said experience? Well, in a crappy place is where. Your choices basically boil down to joining a guild and hoping they will have runs for rookies or watching YouTube videos/reading guides and hoping that it’s enough to get you through safely.

And neither of those are things you should do. The former requires joining a guild, which should never be a requirement. Except for guild-only stuff like guild missions. The latter option requires dishonesty on part of the rookie, as they’d be claiming to have experience which they really don’t. And telling that the playerbase should be a-ok lying to each other is kinda messed up. In a bad way.

I really don’t see why different kind of groups can’t use the LFG tool. Isn’t that elitism in itself? So people complain about “elitist” groups, but then they want those groups to not use the LFG tool?

Well, look at what Anet has been saying about many things relating to WvW and PvP. They do not want to separate the playerbase. The LFG tool is meant to bring people together, to give convenience to PUGs.

Back in the day, a pug was generally a bad group. You went in with expectation of finishing stuff if you were lucky and even then you most likely would end up spending more time than “necessary”. If you wanted speedclears and specific teamcomps, you always went to a guild that did that stuff. So where did pug change from a ragtag group to an elitist speedclear?

Because if that change has not happened, your argument falls flat.

champ.7021:

mexay.3902:

Bloody scrub Karn. I only asked for AP because I was unsure about the LFG system and didn't want to get grouped with people that don't know how to dodge

Since this whole thread was about LFG not about elitists or me arguing about my build and being butt!hurt have you actually had any good experiences with LFG. From what i see we cant judge the full potential because theyre arent enough people using it yet to get a good group everytime. That being said all my groups so far have been pretty terrible. Like people only speaking french or people who dont listen when you say stack in TA u/u

I have but they booted a lot of people and asked people that joined to ping gear etc.

I’ve had far more bad experiences with people who can’t even read what path it is though.

@ Olba its good at brining people together… just not like minded people… who are looking for the same type of run/path/etc. If you want a stop and smell the roses party, then great! Go for it! Just don’t join a speed run and then expect everyone to wait for your sniffing.

As far as getting experience… youtube vids have commentary for every single dung plus you have guildmates/friends/other new people. Why would you force yourself onto the ONE group of people that doesn’t want you?

Aberrant.6749:

@ Olba its good at brining people together… just not like minded people… who are looking for the same type of run/path/etc. If you want a stop and smell the roses party, then great! Go for it! Just don’t join a speed run and then expect everyone to wait for your sniffing.

As far as getting experience… youtube vids have commentary for every single dung plus you have guildmates/friends/other new people. Why would you force yourself onto the ONE group of people that doesn’t want you?

Well what if I have no choice since there are no other groups and all of my friends play too infrequently and I am not a part of a guild?

Because let me tell you, that has happened in other games. And it’s sure as hell the reason why I am not even bothering to try dungeons. I don’t like the idea of being treated with less humanity than a 16th century slave.

Fellyn,
I don’t think so.Yes there maybe some 1/4 of the playerbase that doesn’t read the posts on gw2lfg.com,but the other 3/4 of it for certainty do it.Which is not the case with the ingame LFG tool.With it a lot of people just join on a whim…

Nexxe,
You want just to join and have fun huh?Well here is a story for you.Yesterday i was leading CoE.I was with one friend and 3 randoms.When we were in the room with the exploding robots i specifically said we are doing 1-4 pressing strategy.What happened?only 2 people pressed.And we had to clear the whole room and for that we did bloody 5 wipes.
When we went to the boss with the ice debuff at that place i finally understand we have a newbie with us.

Look now,i don’t have anything against new players as long i know they are in my group so i can explain to them what to do,where to stand,what is the tacktick and so on…
I prefer to explain for 2 minutes rather than wipe again and agin on easy things…

Olba.5376:

Aberrant.6749:

@ Olba its good at brining people together… just not like minded people… who are looking for the same type of run/path/etc. If you want a stop and smell the roses party, then great! Go for it! Just don’t join a speed run and then expect everyone to wait for your sniffing.

As far as getting experience… youtube vids have commentary for every single dung plus you have guildmates/friends/other new people. Why would you force yourself onto the ONE group of people that doesn’t want you?

Well what if I have no choice since there are no other groups and all of my friends play too infrequently and I am not a part of a guild?

Because let me tell you, that has happened in other games. And it’s sure as hell the reason why I am not even bothering to try dungeons. I don’t like the idea of being treated with less humanity than a 16th century slave.

You can join a party that doesn’t say speed or experienced. The vast majority of parties I’ve seen in the LFG tool just say Path X. If there isn’t one, then just create one, they fill up very quickly.

There are always many guilds on every single server actively recruiting and would love to have more members.

No one is treating you poorly by wanting a group of players for a quick/smooth run.

You have plenty of alternatives, use them. Also putting things in bold doesn’t help your point get across. It just makes it appear as if you’re speaking very loudly…

And this is exactly why the queue system withe gear checks was created.

Olba.5376:

Aberrant.6749:

@ Olba its good at brining people together… just not like minded people… who are looking for the same type of run/path/etc. If you want a stop and smell the roses party, then great! Go for it! Just don’t join a speed run and then expect everyone to wait for your sniffing.

As far as getting experience… youtube vids have commentary for every single dung plus you have guildmates/friends/other new people. Why would you force yourself onto the ONE group of people that doesn’t want you?

Well what if I have no choice since there are no other groups and all of my friends play too infrequently and I am not a part of a guild?

Because let me tell you, that has happened in other games. And it’s sure as hell the reason why I am not even bothering to try dungeons. I don’t like the idea of being treated with less humanity than a 16th century slave.

Then you join a guild and make new friends or wait till a regular group is LFM

You shouldn’t try to force yourself onto groups that have clearly specified they don’t want inexperienced players? Are you seriously expecting them not to be upset when you say “Hey guys this is my first time!” or worse yet, nothing at all?

You are at fault if you join a group that specifies it does not want inexperienced players.

rfdarko.4639:

It is my group, that’s why I have the option to accept or reject your offer to join. If I don’t like you, I’m going to kick you. I’ll kick you at the start, so we don’t waste each others time.

Since you, yourself, can be kicked it is by definition not your group. Your failure to grasp that is going to lead to much frustration.

Olba.5376:

The LFG tool is meant to bring people together, to give convenience to PUGs.

The current implementation of the tool will definitely not bring players together. It will divide them even further. The elitists will want only elite level players. Noob players will either want beginner groups or some might want to be carried. It is going to create niches within the community.

And this is why something like the dungeon queue system was created. That queue system is more likely to bring players together. It can queue elitists and noobs in the same dungeon, and the elitist can’t scream “I wanted this specifically”. And the noob won’t be scared to queue.

mexay.3902:

Then you join a guild and make new friends or wait till a regular group is LFM

You shouldn’t try to force yourself onto groups that have clearly specified they don’t want inexperienced players? Are you seriously expecting them not to be upset when you say “Hey guys this is my first time!” or worse yet, nothing at all?

You are at fault if you join a group that specifies it does not want inexperienced players.

people are also forgetting that gw2lfg.com still exists and at the moment with very few people using the lfg tool you can still get a group there so if you cant find one with the tool check there. If you still cant find it then spend that extra 10 min to get a guild group.

Errmagersh ppl please stop with this

Just please post respectfully in a normal volume.

And this is why they need a user friendly queue system that does all the work for us. The current implementation is pretty bad and will suck for both elite level players and new players.

Elite players will find it frustrating. And new players will be scared to use it.

Xcom.1926:

And this is why they need a user friendly queue system that does all the work for us. The current implementation is pretty bad and will suck for both elite level players and new players.

Elite players will find it frustrating. And new players will be scared to use it.

Actually i don’t like the automated dungeon finder systems.With them i can’t see what classes are in the group that i join nor i can write a post.As party leader i want to have full controll over my group when it’s forming at the start which can not be done with automated LFG system.
Right now i like and dislike the current LFG tool.I’m exactly on 50/50

champ.7021:

I TYPE HOW I WANT AND YOU SHOULD DEAL WITH IT AND KEEP ME IN YOUR THREAD :p

Why you do this? T.T

Xcom.1926:

And this is why they need a user friendly queue system that does all the work for us. The current implementation is pretty bad and will suck for both elite level players and new players.

Elite players will find it frustrating. And new players will be scared to use it.

Me and a lot of other players straight up wouldn’t use that at all and would opt to use gw2lfg website instead.

moiraine.2753:

Actually i don’t like the automated dungeon finder systems.With them i can’t see what classes are in the group that i join nor i can write a post.As party leader i want to have full controll over my group when it’s forming at the start which can not be done with automated LFG system.
Right now i like and dislike the current LFG tool.I’m exactly on 50/50

I’m more like 25% like 75% dislike atm. It just doesn’t have enough filters. Not even anything for the different paths? Srsly? People merge me into their party when I want P2 and they want P1 and I have no control over it. People joining and getting mad at me for wanting P1 when it clearly states P2 (although I found that kinda funny tbh). It’s pretty messed up as it is, but I have faith they’ll improve it.

Aleth.9630:

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

Ever heard about this thing called internet?

I heard you can look up guides and video tutorials on it, without wasting others’ time ingame. Whoah, I know.

Ofc, there always is a “first run”, but you can do a lot to improve that experience for both you, and the rest of the party. For me, it was enough motivation not wanting to be a big burden for my party, but I guess some people just don’t care and expect others to carry them through a dungeon they don’t know.

Sorry but it doesn’t matter how many guides you will read or watch a video on Youtube a player will always fail the first few times and learn how the mechanics works.

All these casuals around me.

eyelogix.1654:

Aleth.9630:

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

Ever heard about this thing called internet?

I heard you can look up guides and video tutorials on it, without wasting others’ time ingame. Whoah, I know.

Ofc, there always is a “first run”, but you can do a lot to improve that experience for both you, and the rest of the party. For me, it was enough motivation not wanting to be a big burden for my party, but I guess some people just don’t care and expect others to carry them through a dungeon they don’t know.

Sorry but it doesn’t matter how many guides you will read or watch a video on Youtube a player will always fail the first few times and learn how the mechanics works.

That’s never been my experience since I know what’s going to happen and with the commentary I’ve already been told what to do…

LOL @ all the lvl 45’s joining my 28 fractal runs. They don’t even say anything. One guy even came in and got eaten by the mossman 5x in a row, it was hilarious.

No level restriction? Fine, I’ll just instantly kick anyone who joins sub-80 before they can even put “switching” into party chat. Tired of this crap.

Casual Wars 2.

OP would be more comfortable playing WoW.

People like you make the game worse for others.

Abberant,
I feel your pain ‘mon.I don’t know what is cousing such behaviour from the people.Is it because it’s still in beta and not many have access to it or it just needs more restrictions as you said.
Because people looks like are sooo ’’good’’ readers /end of sarcasm

Dark Catalyst,
Have you even tried the new system?You just don’t know how ’’great’’ it is…Hell no!
The current state of the LFG needs overhaul.It can’t go live as it is.
The OP has some nice ideas.Not all of them but there are some good ones.

Aris.7492:

I really don’t see why different kind of groups can’t use the LFG tool. Isn’t that elitism in itself? So people complain about “elitist” groups, but then they want those groups to not use the LFG tool?

Yeah, this.

I’m baffled by some of the views expressed here, considering that the request is a rational one. The LFG tool is for everyone, to find groups to do any sort of content that allows it.

It could be implemented something like this; You want to speedclear? Check that box and find groups running the dungeon that way. Don’t want to? Leave it blank and join regular parties. Everyone wins.

Of course, the dialogue on this forums is always so polarized (casuals vs hardcore), but I find a lot of the PUG dungeon community is somewhere in between. Most of us do want to get in and out as quickly as possible, but we won’t get our panties in a bunch if things go wrong (within reason of course). This seems to be reflected in the listings on gw2lfg as well, relatively few groups identify any sort of prerequisites for joining. There’s lots of opportunities for newbies to learn the ropes, as well as room for more experienced players to have fun, smooth and efficient runs.

I don’t think the LFG tool was meant to be used for the formation of groups with very stringent requirements. OP would be better off using the website or using his guild as a resource.

Jahroots.6791:

Aris.7492:

I really don’t see why different kind of groups can’t use the LFG tool. Isn’t that elitism in itself? So people complain about “elitist” groups, but then they want those groups to not use the LFG tool?

Yeah, this.

I’m baffled by some of the views expressed here, considering that the request is a rational one. The LFG tool is for everyone, to find groups to do any sort of content that allows it.

It could be implemented something like this; You want to speedclear? Check that box and find groups running the dungeon that way. Don’t want to? Leave it blank and join regular parties. Everyone wins.

Of course, the dialogue on this forums is always so polarized (casuals vs hardcore), but I find a lot of the PUG dungeon community is somewhere in between. Most of us do want to get in and out as quickly as possible, but we won’t get our panties in a bunch if things go wrong (within reason of course). This seems to be reflected in the listings on gw2lfg as well, relatively few groups identify any sort of prerequisites for joining. There’s lots of opportunities for newbies to learn the ropes, as well as room for more experienced players to have fun, smooth and efficient runs.

I have no problem with “elitist” groups trying to form groups using the LFG tool. However there is no need nor should ArenaNet encourage it by giving this small subset of players the tools to facilitate it. ArenaNet putting in those filters indeed does encourage the “No Noobs” mindset. When the tool is designed FOR noobs as most noobs don’t have a guild that runs it or friends to play with.

Put your requirements in the description. Politely Kick the non-conformers simple as that. If a player continues to try to join your group or any group without reading they will eventually be punished by the system.

If you are unwilling to do the above and want to guarantee that you only get groups that fit your mold. Use a guild or schedule it with the community that is like-minded to you.

The problem with the system encouraging it is that more and more players will do it as they want a easy ride. The tool is designed to get you in and out of the tool as quick as possible. I did this for story mode today. I logged in. Joined a group a player locked it into explorer mode. We disbanded then reformed this time someone selected story mode. The entire process was done faster then it took for me to go from Lions arch all the way to AC running with my character. I call that working as designed.

anzenketh.3759:

Put your requirements in the description. Politely Kick the non-conformers simple as that. If a player continues to try to join your group or any group without reading they will eventually be punished by the system.

If you are unwilling to do the above and want to guarantee that you only get groups that fit your mold. Use a guild or schedule it with the community that is like-minded to you.

So this is what groups do anyways it just wastes their time. If they are going to kick “non conformers”/not-bads from their group why not save everyone the misery and just let people add in requirements if they want them. If you dont like running with experienced people make your own ad saying anyone is welcome and i guarantee you will get a group in a couple of seconds

champ.7021:

anzenketh.3759:

Put your requirements in the description. Politely Kick the non-conformers simple as that. If a player continues to try to join your group or any group without reading they will eventually be punished by the system.

If you are unwilling to do the above and want to guarantee that you only get groups that fit your mold. Use a guild or schedule it with the community that is like-minded to you.

So this is what groups do anyways it just wastes their time. If they are going to kick “non conformers”/not-bads from their group why not save everyone the misery and just let people add in requirements if they want them. If you dont like running with experienced people make your own ad saying anyone is welcome and i guarantee you will get a group in a couple of seconds

I do and have made my own and Also I respect the posts that say Level 80 only. When my alt (my main is 80) is running it. But who is to say that the person with only 900 Achievement points and is a level 80 does not meet your requirements. The only way that you will know this is to take him.

I understand your concern about your time wasted. But if they do add requirements system in place there are a lot of players that do not need or are really looking for “Min/Max” runs will start using the feature. Why… because it is there.

More of what I am saying is there is no need for filter system by Achievement posts or level requirements (besides that what is already in place). The description field should suffice. I understand your frustration. But putting those features in place would go against the design of the tool.

Anzenketh,
The problem is that people don’t bloody read the descripntion of the post.When i put a specific requirements in my post i expect of people 2 things:
1st to read what is written
2nd to do what is wanted from the poster
When neither of those 2 things are not met then why are people joining the group???
It’s actually quite simple to follow the text.

I do agree that a filter by achievement level would be too heavy handed. However I think grouping options similar to those on the website would be helpful to all players.

And here they are.

Extended Run – posts will last for 2 hours. Use for content that is harder to find a group.
Speed Run – get in, get out!
Experienced Only – No newbies. Experienced players only
Newbie – I am new to this event, please be nice!
Doing everything – Why skip content when it is there.
Language Preference – Please post your language preference in the comments.

Covers the basics adequately, without offending or alienating anyone.

Jahroots.6791:

I do agree that a filter by achievement level would be too heavy handed. However I think grouping options similar to those on the website would be helpful to all players.

And here they are.

Extended Run – posts will last for 2 hours. Use for content that is harder to find a group.
Speed Run – get in, get out!
Experienced Only – No newbies. Experienced players only
Newbie – I am new to this event, please be nice!
Doing everything – Why skip content when it is there.
Language Preference – Please post your language preference in the comments.

Covers the basics adequately, without offending or alienating anyone.

Yes i would like to have such things added.They are not game breaking,but will give a some options to us.

Conncept.7638:

Because every person has a duty to be understanding to every other person. I was taught this since I was born, and am told it used to be common knowledge. People need help, you help them, because you are their equal and partner and they are yours, when you help anyone the world improves and you have helped everyone, including yourself. If you refuse that, it is because you set yourself above those who need help. Why that idea seems to be not only alien these days, but maligned with extreme prejudice is beyond me.

Choosing to play with person B rather than person A is not a lack of being understanding. Belittling someone for choosing to play with others with similar interests does not really demonstrate the ideal you seem to hold so dear.

If you were entering a tennis doubles tournament would it be wrong to prefer to have someone who has played tennis competitively, or at all, as your partner?

Whoever told you that understanding was more common in the past was remembering a world that did not exist. Modern society is more inclusive than has ever been the case in the past.

One cannot always be helping others. This does not mean that you are setting yourself above those you have not helped with any particular portion of your time. Please note that there are people that you did not help during the time you have spent posting in this thread. This does not mean that you put yourself above them.

i actually dont condone being biased based on AP points. 1000-2000 ap points isnt asking for much though because if you have been playing for a month or two and have done dungeons you should be around there. But asking for more or asking for 5000ap points like i saw the other day is just stupid because your skill at dungeons is not tied to your skill at getting ap points i.e. finishing the stupid ls achievements.

The fastest solution to people not reading group advertisements is to have people click on the post and bring them to a new page with just the group details before they can join. That would make this more than just a hotjoin lets go facepalm instead of faceroll dungeons tool and more of a lets build a group that is ready to handle a dungeon like arah.

and there will be enough anyone welcome classes because there are enough on gw2lfg.com so im pretty sure they will transfer over

Aberrant.6749:

AntiGw.9367:

There’s an entire dev twitch that explains what it’s designed for and what it’s not designed for.

I may be misinterpreting some of the things they say or imply, but I’m pretty sure the post you quoted is fairly accurate.

It even explains that you can kick randoms who don’t read your description, and they can even get suspended if they try to join you again.

I don’t remember hearing them say that it wasn’t OK to ask for specific types of players in that twitch, but I could have missed it.

IMO them adding in more filters to prevent needing to kick randoms who don’t read would be a better solution Vs. wait until they do it to the point where it’s harassment and then reporting them for it. Even if it was just for the different paths speed run or casual run etc. would be huge improvements.

It’s ok to ask for specific players.

It’s just that the tool isn’t designed for it, and will not work very well for it. Simply put, somebody will quickly join your group, or the other elitist player groups before you’ll even get the chance to see them.

The problem isn’t the tool, it’s that your elitist standards exclude a huge amount of population from playing with you. This tool is designed to be convenient to that huge amount of people that don’t see this game as a job.

Having an achievement point requirement on a post really takes away the post’s integrity. In no way does earning achievement points make you more experienced at a specific dungeon. If I want to get good at a dungeon, I should not even consider grinding achievement points to gain more credibility.