Guild Wars 2

To make it perfectly clear…

I have no issue teaching people, but there is a time and place. A large amount of the community sees Arah P2 as a higher tier dungeon, not something that a casual would do.

I have no issue running with randoms. I do however have an issue with:

People who can’t play their class
People who can’t dodge
People who can’t understand new mechanics
People who join without reading the kittening description

The main issue is people joining without reading the description. I don’t expect everyone to be super elite mlg minmaxed full ascended extra super zerk full legendary scholar runes. I expect people to read the description. I expect people to use the tool correctly, not just ‘Hot join on enter’ and let anyone into the group.

The reason why people usually ask for what I said in OP, is because those people don’t want to have to teach people their class, the dungeon, the game mechanics, etc.

Like, I shouldn’t be having to explain to a level 80 Warrior why running 5 signets is garbage and asking them to change their build.

Don’t go flinging around the terms ‘elitist’ and things like that. It’s not about elitism, it’s about wanting to group with people who actually care about the people in their group. I.e “I’m not going to just semi-afk through the run because that would be unfair to the people in my party” things like that.

My (and others) reasoning for AP:

AP is a general indication for how long a player has been playing the game. Typically someone with ~3k AP has been playing long enough to understand most basic mechanics of the game. For example, you’ll usually look at someone with 0 – 500 AP and think they’re new. I’ve almost always been correct in assuming a player’s skill level based on their AP level. It simply comes down to experience over time. You don’t get 10,000 AP by being a scrub.

Konrad.9587:

Conncept.7638:

You need to look up the definition of ‘elitist’, because restricting or excluding a majority based on standards ‘you’ set, is near exactly how it reads.

Then how would you call a situation when two group of players that don’t want to play with each other, are forced to group up because setting standards is wrong?

Setting standards for reasons of functionality is not elitism, setting standards based on an egotistical self-impression, is. Neither is being elitist in the situation you presented.

This thread is a good example of why I have yet to do a dungeon. If I decide at some time I’m up for it I’ll probably look to some of the friendly people here instead of using the LFG tool. I’d hate to join a group that advertised as friendly and for fun, only to end up in some gear and achievement points “d” measuring contest. No thanks.

GOSU.9574:

Pandeh.5248:

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

Why don’t you do that then. Lets spend 3-4 hours teaching 4 people their class and the dungeon mechanics.

While you are at it, give them gold for gear and help them level to 80. We need to help eachother yes?

You have failed to counter his valid point. No one taught you jack, you just went in all pro and kitten. Right? Idiots.

People taught me some stuff, but I did not join speedruns the first time I did X dungeon.

If party leader says he want XP people he has the right to.

JustTrogdor.7892:

This thread is a good example of why I have yet to do a dungeon. If I decide at some time I’m up for it I’ll probably look to some of the friendly people here instead of using the LFG tool. I’d hate to join a group that advertised as friendly and for fun, only to end up in some gear and achievement points “d” measuring contest. No thanks.

This is all ok, no one forces you to join the groups that are listed as elitist speedruns.

When you do the dungeon for the first time you should do it with like minded people.

But people that has done it 30++ times does not want to spend 4 hours on a dungeon they know they can beat in under an hour.

Again, people are missing the point of the LFG tool.

It’s not there to help you find the best possible group according to some standards. It’s there to help you socialize.

If you are trying to use it to filter out “bad” players, you are using it wrong, and it’ll be useless to you. Just stick to lfg-ing in map chat as much as you like.

AntiGw.9367:

Again, people are missing the point of the LFG tool.

It’s not there to help you find the best possible group according to some standards. It’s there to help you socialize.

If you are trying to use it to filter out “bad” players, you are using it wrong, and it’ll be useless to you. Just stick to lfg-ing in map chat as much as you like.

This was commented on above, so people that want to be efficient are not allowed to make LFGs? Only casual groups are allowed?

Why?

Pandeh.5248:

JustTrogdor.7892:

This thread is a good example of why I have yet to do a dungeon. If I decide at some time I’m up for it I’ll probably look to some of the friendly people here instead of using the LFG tool. I’d hate to join a group that advertised as friendly and for fun, only to end up in some gear and achievement points “d” measuring contest. No thanks.

This is all ok, no one forces you to join the groups that are listed as elitist speedruns.

When you do the dungeon for the first time you should do it with like minded people.

But people that has done it 30++ times does not want to spend 4 hours on a dungeon they know they can beat in under an hour.

See the problem is that should I choose to use the LFG tool inevitably I will join some party that doesn’t mention certain prerequisites. Then I find out I don’t have enough achievement points for them or some junk like that. At that point I get called a ‘newb’ ‘bad player’ or whatever it is these days. I had enough of that garbage in past games and I’m not going to mess with people that think they are too awesome to play a game with me. You can go ahead and block me so we can make sure we don’t cross paths. Save us both some time.

People here are missing the point. It’s not about being ‘elitist’

It’s about people reading and allowing the group leader to accept invites. Plain and simple.

You are all totally missing the point, unless you think I should party with anyone and everyone. Even people running full white gear, one weapon set, no traits selected and only 2 utilities unlocked? I should just teach them, otherwise I’m a bad person?

No. That is not what MMOs or even GW2 is about and it never has been.

Pandeh.5248:

AntiGw.9367:

Again, people are missing the point of the LFG tool.

It’s not there to help you find the best possible group according to some standards. It’s there to help you socialize.

If you are trying to use it to filter out “bad” players, you are using it wrong, and it’ll be useless to you. Just stick to lfg-ing in map chat as much as you like.

This was commented on above, so people that want to be efficient are not allowed to make LFGs? Only casual groups are allowed?

Why?

It’s a tool that doesn’t differentiate between casuals and hardcore.

If you want to make groups that promote intolerance, there’s always the lfg website that everyone was using until now.

Pandeh.5248:

GOSU.9574:

Pandeh.5248:

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

Why don’t you do that then. Lets spend 3-4 hours teaching 4 people their class and the dungeon mechanics.

While you are at it, give them gold for gear and help them level to 80. We need to help eachother yes?

You have failed to counter his valid point. No one taught you jack, you just went in all pro and kitten. Right? Idiots.

People taught me some stuff, but I did not join speedruns the first time I did X dungeon.

If party leader says he want XP people he has the right to.

Except in GW2 there is no party leader.

Ive had crapload of runs with people who dont understand their class nor ANY basic mechanics and who ignore genuine advice. Its extremely frustrating when onlly 1 run is “smooth” and 9 others are a total washout or take way longer than they should because members will not use mechanics that are required.

However its not the LFG at fault, the tool is perfectly fine as is. Its simply the bad and rude players that ruin it. And no I dont mean new people. I play with anyone, and if they say “I dont know this that well” its water off a ducks back to me and Ill help them out.

Bad players are those who ignore basic mechanics, run around messing up “puzzle” sections over and over again, and generaly make every encounter extremely messy. All the while ignoring players chat, not saying a word, and then have the audacity to then say its someone else at fault or try to use “lag” as an excuse for sheer stupidity.

TL:DR – Tool is fine; Its the players thats the issue.

Pandeh.5248:

Conncept.7638:

Yenn.9185:

Those people didn’t meet his “standards” and joined his party regardless. Kicking them is not elitist because he clearly stated what he expects to those who joined HIS party. The other 4 members have to abide by his standards the moment they join HIS party.

You need to look up the definition of ‘elitist’, because restricting or excluding a majority based on standards ‘you’ set, is near exactly how it reads.

Ok, lets say he’s a “elitist” because he wants a smooth run that doesn’t take 3 hours when he only has 1 and a half to do the dungeon.

Does that make him a bad person? I don’t get why people complain about people setting standards. Achievement points, is another matter. But most people that have very few of these are very likely to lack experience in both the dungeon and the game.

If you make a CoF P1 speedrun group, and 4 people join with condi builds. You are saying that the party LEADER does not have the right to kick?

It’s his party, he decides who he wants to play with. Kicking midway for bad performance is a whole other topic.

TL;DR > It’s his party, plain and simple.

This. Totally agree. He clearly had his notes up. Would it be any different if he had a party full of thieves and asked for a guard for wall of reflection? The notes are there for a reason. GW2lfg is no different. You don’t have join his group and he doesn’t have to take a players either.

As for the OP, um…there is a kick option in the game for a reason. You can also just be a nice guy and tell the person “we are looking for something else”. Notes should be sufficient. There should be two brackets though:

1. A pool of players LFG
2. A pool of groups LFM players.

A tool like this is soooooo much easier in games with roles. Looking for a healer, great… post for one. Looking for a tank, great…post for one.

What I want to see here is dialog between the group and the person trying to join a group. Players should be asking questions before hopping into some random group.
Or asking questions once you are in. The reason dialog is needed because of certain examples. I’ve seen players insta kicked for not being lvl 80, when infact they were on an alt on group join waiting for run to begin before switching.

Nothing wrong with pugging. I’m in 2 full guilds and pug all the time just because I will run a dungeon with anyone who wants to do them.
You just have to talk to people.

AntiGw.9367:

Pandeh.5248:

AntiGw.9367:

Again, people are missing the point of the LFG tool.

It’s not there to help you find the best possible group according to some standards. It’s there to help you socialize.

If you are trying to use it to filter out “bad” players, you are using it wrong, and it’ll be useless to you. Just stick to lfg-ing in map chat as much as you like.

This was commented on above, so people that want to be efficient are not allowed to make LFGs? Only casual groups are allowed?

Why?

It’s a tool that doesn’t differentiate between casuals and hardcore.

If you want to make groups that promote intolerance, there’s always the lfg website that everyone was using until now.

The tool does differentiate between casuals and hardcore. It was by Anet’s design to exclude features that would otherwise help some to party with people they chose to.

The LFG site is now out of the question because why would hardcore need to use a resource that is similarly available in-game.

Yenn.9185:

AntiGw.9367:

It’s a tool that doesn’t differentiate between casuals and hardcore.

If you want to make groups that promote intolerance, there’s always the lfg website that everyone was using until now.

The tool does differentiate between casuals and hardcore. It was by Anet’s design to exclude features that would otherwise help some to party with people they chose to.

The LFG site is now out of the question because why would hardcore need to use a resource that is similarly available in-game.

They’ll include some features that will help you discriminate agaiinst other players.

If you look at the history of this game’s development, you’ll notice how they decide to add things for all crowds, even stuff that probably shouldn’t be there.

I agree, it needs a change. It should just place random people together like the WoW Dungeon Finder does. Don’t like your group? You can leave and get a dungeon debuff so you can’t run dungeons for half an hour.

Oh, you don’t like that solution? Then live with what you have. Anet already catered to the elitist scum by allowing the LFG to post what “type” of group they want. They can’t force people to abide by what you type.

I have to say I did expect more considering the time it took them to release the tool. I just can’t shake the feeling that there’s a double standard that is going between casual runners and speed runners regarding the “play how you want” notion.

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

Here’s an idea – perhaps some of us have better use of our time. Dungeons can be learned off Youtube. If you’re in GW2 right now and don’t know all the dungeons – you’re doing something wrong.

And those people should learn patience, and take the time. And should especially stop being so immature as to refer to everyone with less experience as a ‘bad’ player.

And I suppose you’re going to take over doing my RL stuff and grinding for my ascended while i go trotting in Arah with the newbies and the bads.

The elitist attitude is out of control. Kicking people because they don’t live up to your standards is ridiculous. If you want a professional group for speed runs, or for easy-mode gameplay, then organize one without random players.

The problems with organized groups is schedules – I have people I run with but we can’t all be on at the same time.
What do I want usually? Randoms. What sort of randoms? The kind that are aiming for the same things – fast, clean runs with lots of profit.
So MY lfgs reflect what I need. Other people need other things and to them I say " good day and good luck".

You have failed to counter his valid point. No one taught you jack, you just went in all pro and kitten. Right? Idiots.

Youtube is your friend. Then Dulfy. Then Wiki. That’s how I did it and I expect others to KNOW what they are walking into.

To all those saying " stop being elitist" I have one thing to say – start mailing me gold till I hit 20-30 gold made/ day and I’ll start slow-running dungeons with the slowest of the slowpokes and I’ll take the time to explain and teach them the game.
Until you start doing that I’ll be keeping my standards.
I’m here to play the game I want to – I paid 60$ for the game and what’s in it and I’m starting to dislike all these " non-elitists" who think I’m here to teach them the game. I’m here to play the way I want. And that means as far from them as possible.

The sites are the only viable option as it is now.

Oxe.6142:

I agree, it needs a change. It should just place random people together like the WoW Dungeon Finder does. Don’t like your group? You can leave and get a dungeon debuff so you can’t run dungeons for half an hour.

Oh, you don’t like that solution? Then live with what you have. Anet already catered to the elitist scum by allowing the LFG to post what “type” of group they want. They can’t force people to abide by what you type.

If they change it and make it random WHY WOULD ANYONE USE IT?
Why would I EVER want to be set up with another 4 random people who might or might not have any idea what they are doing?

How are people guilty for trying to stay away from certain parts of the playerbase?

You obviously hate elitists – I can understand why – but what I can’t understand is this :
IF you hate us so much why not give us the chance to never have anything to do with you? Isn’t that what you want? You can then pretend we don’t even exist.

You’re trying to force people to play with you. WHY?
The elitist crowd doesn’t want you – and you don’t want them – so why even bother trying to play together?

Harper.4173:

How are people guilty for trying to stay away from certain parts of the playerbase?

The fact that you ask that shows everything that’s wrong with you.

Harper.4173:

IF you hate us so much why not give us the chance to never have anything to do with you? Isn’t that what you want? You can then pretend we don’t even exist.

You already have that chance. It’s called gw2lfg.com, and it’s not going anywhere.

mexay.3902:

So I’ve already had significant difficulties with the LFG tool. It doesn’t work. Sure, the functionality is there and it’s great, however…

The people using it are not using it correctly. People put up posts with nothing in it. People simply join groups without reading the post.

We need to place better restrictions on it. Hell just something like accepting people before they join. I had FIVE different players join my group multiple times for Arah Path 2, just now and they clearly hadn’t read the party message. It clearly stated:

EXP ONLY. 3k+ AP path 2 Arah. Speed run. . No PVT.

Now, I don’t like to be ‘that guy’ but I’m one of those players who likes to get things done with minimal kitten -ing about. That means I ask for experienced players who know what they’re doing, running decent gear, who are likely to understand mechanics.

The lfg tool functions, but it doesn’t work. I should be able to accept someone before they enter. Let me see their class and achievement points before they join. Chances are if I’m looking for an Arah P2 run and someone with 500 achievement points joins, they aren’t going to know the run.

The tool is, in it’s current state, a Pile of Putrid Essence for anyone who is looking for an experienced group.

I’m confused what a persons AP has to do with anything.

Have you mistakenly come to the conclusion that AP = skill? Is that what is being implied?

Harper.4173:

Here’s an idea – perhaps some of us have better use of our time. Dungeons can be learned off Youtube. If you’re in GW2 right now and don’t know all the dungeons – you’re doing something wrong.

If your principal concern is your time and resource to profit ratio, you oughtn’t be playing a game in the first place. It’s a community of people playing, play or go away. And in the case of you and players like you, learn to play nicely.

Harper.4173:

And I suppose you’re going to take over doing my RL stuff and grinding for my ascended while i go trotting in Arah with the newbies and the bads.

The players you are neglecting to help have real life responsibilities too, why are yours any more important than theirs? You are the one being selfish here, not them, not to mention being small minded. Help them to learn, you get better groups, faster, and more often. In the long run, everybody wins if players like you stop being selfish.

mexay.3902:

So I’ve already had significant difficulties with the LFG tool. It doesn’t work. Sure, the functionality is there and it’s great, however…

The people using it are not using it correctly. People put up posts with nothing in it. People simply join groups without reading the post.

We need to place better restrictions on it. Hell just something like accepting people before they join. I had FIVE different players join my group multiple times for Arah Path 2, just now and they clearly hadn’t read the party message. It clearly stated:

EXP ONLY. 3k+ AP path 2 Arah. Speed run. . No PVT.

Now, I don’t like to be ‘that guy’ but I’m one of those players who likes to get things done with minimal kitten -ing about. That means I ask for experienced players who know what they’re doing, running decent gear, who are likely to understand mechanics.

The lfg tool functions, but it doesn’t work. I should be able to accept someone before they enter. Let me see their class and achievement points before they join. Chances are if I’m looking for an Arah P2 run and someone with 500 achievement points joins, they aren’t going to know the run.

The tool is, in it’s current state, a Pile of Putrid Essence for anyone who is looking for an experienced group.

You have the option to kick them – don’t feel bad for kicking people who can’t read.

Check their achievement points when they join. Ask them to ping gear. If they don’t comply, or there gear is not what you want, kick them. It will take approximately 15 seconds longer than if they couldn’t have joined in the first place.

Anet doesn’t want to “encourage” a gear-check culture, so they wont officially implement anything like that, but you have every right to form the party you want, whether it be “zerk only meleeing lupi” or “~~all classes / newbies welcome~~ <3 <3”.

Conncept.7638:

Harper.4173:

Here’s an idea – perhaps some of us have better use of our time. Dungeons can be learned off Youtube. If you’re in GW2 right now and don’t know all the dungeons – you’re doing something wrong.

If your principal concern is your time and resource to profit ratio, you oughtn’t be playing a game in the first place. It’s a community of people playing, play or go away. And in the case of you and players like you, learn to play nicely.

Harper.4173:

And I suppose you’re going to take over doing my RL stuff and grinding for my ascended while i go trotting in Arah with the newbies and the bads.

The players you are neglecting to help have real life responsibilities too. You are the one being selfish here, not them, not to mention being small minded. Help them to learn, you get better groups, faster, and more often. In the long run, everybody wins if players like you stop being selfish.

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

They should also have the paths be specific so that I don’t get dragged into some one else’s party who doing another path. This has happened to me multiple times… and don’t even get me started on the number of times I’ve put in P2 etc in the description and people join and leave because it’s not the path they wanted.

There needs to be an option to accept or discard joining players/groups.
And that window should contain Class Level Name Guild and in case of Fractals the highest AR ever achieved on that char, i don’t like gear checks but in case of fractals I’m totally pro.
An addition i would like to see would be a grid where you can specify which classes and how many you would like to have in your group, and if the slot for Thiefs is full no more thieves should be able to join for example.
There should be (but i think it will never come) an extra tab which is only accessable if you have the achievement Dungeon Master, its says you have done every dungeon atleast once and you can trust that you don’t have to explain anything to other players
I had only bad experiences since i can use the LFG Tool, people not reading the description or ignoring the chat and wrecking the whole dungeon run.

And additional to those “I play like i want” People in this thread:

That BS all those " stop being elitist" Guys are talking is bugging me.

Time is the most precious currency humans have! Deal with it!
Why do i say that?
Because if I only have 1-2 hours playtime a day i want my stuff to be done in that time.
I can do CoE complete with experienced people in 40-50 minutes, i can’t do that with “5 Signet YOLO SWAG FULL PVT Warrior”.
I dealt with many of those “I play like i want” Players even in my guild, they are the badest players and most resistant to any kind of advice.
Arah Path 4 Took me 4 Hours with my guild mates because of this “I play like i want” attitude, i would never have done something like that with randoms, i would tell them to **** themself and rage quit.
I played all classes to 80 and can see when someone is playing his class wrong, wrong in that kind that he is not unexperiecend but he is totally ignoring any class mechanic given.
And if I get a “I play like i want” in exchange for good advices he gets blocked and kicked…
That might sound pretty arrogant but if you play like you want than “I play like I want” and that is my given right, I will always consider my Time until I die more important than your butterfly and flower kitten ;-)

I really CANNOT understand people who throw the term “elitist” around as in insult.

It’s basically saying that people have the RIGHT to join parties and play with anyone doing anything they want. Except the OP is in that party as well, he created it, where is HIS freedon to choose who to play with?

He’s ""elitist"" ? maybe, if that means wanting to play with people who know what they’re doing. But he paid for his game, and he’s free to CHOOSE WHO TO PLAY WITH.
Helping newbies is nice, it’s nice when you are one and is nice when you’re the one schooling them, gives a fuzzy “awww” feeling inside when they actually listen and learn.

But can you force that? Can you really say “yeah, no one cares about you, every dungeon run MUST be done with anyone who wants to join” with a straight face?

And my main is a ranger, i got kicked many times when joining parties just for my class, had to even roll a guardian to do some serious dungeon farming. And THATS FINE, people have the right to choose who to play with, that might be a dumb and unmotivated choice, but its still their own dam choice.

Conncept.7638:

Harper.4173:

Here’s an idea – perhaps some of us have better use of our time. Dungeons can be learned off Youtube. If you’re in GW2 right now and don’t know all the dungeons – you’re doing something wrong.

If your principal concern is your time and resource to profit ratio, you oughtn’t be playing a game in the first place. It’s a community of people playing, play or go away. And in the case of you and players like you, learn to play nicely.

Harper.4173:

And I suppose you’re going to take over doing my RL stuff and grinding for my ascended while i go trotting in Arah with the newbies and the bads.

The players you are neglecting to help have real life responsibilities too. You are the one being selfish here, not them, not to mention being small minded. Help them to learn, you get better groups, faster, and more often. In the long run, everybody wins if players like you stop being selfish.

This game – as opposed to GW1 encourages you – actively to get your stuff done right, fast and effective. Anyone who denies that is delusional.
Check legendary grind, check ascended grind. Compare that to what GW1 was. Come back to me when you have.

I like how you – Conncept are judging weather I should or not be playing a game. It is not your judgement call to make. I can do whatever I want with my time and MORE OVER I can choose to spend my time however I want.

If I want to stay away from certain parts of the player base it is MY option and I see no reason people should think they are justified in trying to force me to play any different or calling the way I play wrong.

And yes – it is a community but NO – i do not have to play with every one of them – just the ones that I feel like playing with.

Real life human society is community based too but you’re not friends with everyone are you? You filter people based on your needs/ ideals/ beliefs/ common interest and ground/ feelings and other factors.
In the same manner I filter the people I play with by the criteria that I choose to consider relevant.

And no – AP doesn’t equal skill but an AP of over 6000 or so gives some indication that you’ve put time and effort into the game and that there’s a higher chance you’re playing it right ( no guarantees ,but at least a chance. There’s a lower chance to meet a 6k AP newbie than a 2k AP expert).

They might have RL stuff too – how much of it – i don’t know and frankly I don’t care. Sharing RL things doesn’t really mean we’re best buddies now.

Here’s the bottom line – if elitists stopped being elitist they’d be losing time and other might nor not might be winning.
The whole concept is this – if i want to play with certain people and ONLY certain people that’s not wrong. That’s not against the game.
Your attitude is wrong – taking a moral high ground and considering that you know better regarding how I should play the game.

I’m not anybody’s personal caretaker- some players will improve but there are players that :
1)don’t want to learn – " my build is fine – don’t tell me how to play"
2)can’t even dodge – various reasons ( age, lack of skill) making them slow.
3)can’t put in the time necessary to learn things
4)can’t take things seriously enough – " chill out dude – we’ve only wiped 3 times"
etc.

I’ve tried with this community. It has not worked out ( pointless to elaborate- see reasons above) – so I’m done even trying to filter through.

I’ll set a high bar and if you can match – we play – if not – I’m not going to try.
It’s my choice and I don’t see why you’re telling me to do things differently.

If you don’t want PUG type teams don’t use PUG tools to get them…

Honestly what do you expect from a LFG Beta tool.

People saying that everyone should give up their time to teach newbies should think about how frustrating that can become when you have to teach people the same basic stuff thats on videos/wikis/guides continuously.

If that is your only true argument against a more tuned LFG system then you yourself have clearly never been in a situation where you have to show people over and over and over what to do.

I’m all for helping people and I’m more patient than most but there is a threshold; almost a year ago I was running CoF path 2 constantly to get my 1st exotic armor set (this is all before DR on tokens, and even DR on drops) each run giving 25-30 tokens.

I used to see people saying “LFXM must ping a piece of this dungeons gear!” And I was totally against that kind of exclusion. As time went on and after dozens of dozens of horrible runs that needed thorough explanation every. single. time. And thats if people would bother to read the chat I was nice enough to type before each encounter. (You would not believe the amount of fail that used to happen on the bring bombs to Magg part, let alone the end boss mechanic..) I started to see myself doing the “Ping Gear for proof of experience” thing.

TL;DR – People like smooth fluid dungeon groups because of time restraints or to avoid the stress; teaching people is fine but it gets to a point… Well lets just say walkthroughs and guides exist for a reason.

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

Well said.

Aberrant.6749:

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

So let me get this straight, it was just claimed that your demographic’s selfishness is permissible because you don’t have time to even consider any courtesy for your fellow players. Yet it’s completely okay to exploit and exclude players who have even less time than you do?

You are honestly the most self-contradictory and hypocritical group that have ever graced the internet. That is an accomplishment worth being ashamed of.

mexay.3902:

Whine whine whine, no productive suggestions.

Just a few hours ago I did Arah p4 with a group found by the LFG tool (lupi and dwayna on 1st try), maybe your problem lies between your keyboard and your chair.

mexay.3902:

People here are missing the point. It’s not about being ‘elitist’

It’s about people reading and allowing the group leader to accept invites. Plain and simple.

As soon as you use the LFG tool, its not your group and you’re not the leader. The sooner you learn that, the less whiny you’ll be on the forums.

Berner.7289:

mexay.3902:

People here are missing the point. It’s not about being ‘elitist’

It’s about people reading and allowing the group leader to accept invites. Plain and simple.

As soon as you use the LFG tool, its not your group and you’re not the leader. The sooner you learn that, the less whiny you’ll be on the forums.

Please add me in game. So I can join you’r Arah path 3 group, then I demand we do story, since it’s not your group.

Would you blindly say “Okay lets do story” ? No you woudn’t.

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

So let me get this straight, it was just claimed that your demographic’s selfishness is permissible because you don’t have time to even consider any courtesy for your fellow players. Yet it’s completely okay to exploit and exclude players who have even less time than you do?

You are honestly the most self-contradictory and hypocritical group that have ever graced the internet. That is an accomplishment worth being ashamed of.

I’m saying that that one person that doesn’t know what’s up is wasting the time of everyone else because he/she is unwilling to go watch a video on how to do the dung/unwilling to put the time into getting exotic gear (in both cases not a lot of time).

They also ignored the text that said “Experienced only” and just crashed the party anyways (rude and selfish).

It’s far more selfish to ask 4 other people to waste their time than it is to ask that one person to go do the things they should have done in the first place.

They are not considering the 4 other people in the party.

4 > 1.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one.

Etc.

You can call me whatever names you want… say that I should be ashamed… whatever idc… but my logic is sound and you doing so just makes you appear as if you have no solid counter-argument thus resorting to name calling.

Lampshade.7569:

My experience was good therefore anyone else who has a bad experience is lying

I can change quotes and twist words to fit my purpose too.

Berner.7289:

As soon as you use the LFG tool, its not your group and you’re not the leader. The sooner you learn that, the less whiny you’ll be on the forums.

Except you’re wrong. It IS my group. I put the post up. I am opening the dungeon, I am organising it. I get to dictate who joins, as long as the current members of the party agree.

If I start a group with my friend to do CoE path 2 and we agree that we want zerker only, experienced players and no necromancer, it is our choice. We get to decide whether you are part of that or not. If we decide not to allow those people in our group, we get to. The point is that we specifically asked for no non-zerk and no newbies and no necromancer and we expect that the people who join fit within our criteria, if they don’t we kick them. No complaints.

I don’t see the issue. We have every right to say we do or do not want particular people in our group. That is part of MMOs.

Conncept.7638:

Here’s a novel idea, how ’bout players like you actually run people through the dungeon and teach them, instead of scaring them off with kitten like this. Then when you want to run you will actually have people to run it with.

Most players I know still haven’t even run all the dungeons after a year of solid play, largely because of players like you.

You’re like the industries that demand nothing but experienced professionals for years and years then can’t figure out why there are no more experienced professionals once that generation retires. People need experience, to become, experienced.

if you’re new you shouldnt be relying on pug groups to teach you, you should ask your guild. If you want to pug at least watch a guide and learn how to listen to people.

mexay.3902:

Lampshade.7569:

My experience was good therefore anyone else who has a bad experience is lying

I can change quotes and twist words to fit my purpose too.

Well played, Sir, but might I remind you that you, based apparently only on your own experience, stated “It doesn’t work”?

Your next point: The people using it are not using it correctly.
Well maybe you could teach them how to use it correctly, instead of, as I suspect, showering them with insults and kicking them without explanation.

Aberrant.6749:

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

So let me get this straight, it was just claimed that your demographic’s selfishness is permissible because you don’t have time to even consider any courtesy for your fellow players. Yet it’s completely okay to exploit and exclude players who have even less time than you do?

You are honestly the most self-contradictory and hypocritical group that have ever graced the internet. That is an accomplishment worth being ashamed of.

I’m saying that that one person that doesn’t know what’s up is wasting the time of everyone else because he/she is unwilling to go watch a video on how to do the dung/unwilling to put the time into getting exotic gear (in both cases not a lot of time).

They also ignored the text that said “Experienced only” and just crashed the party anyways (rude and selfish).

It’s far more selfish to ask 4 other people to waste their time than it is to ask that one person to go do the things they should have done in the first place.

You can call me whatever names you want, but my logic is sound and you doing so just makes you appear as if you have no solid counter-argument thus resorting to name calling.

So if he watched a video on youtube, and had ascended gear, but had never actually run the dungeon, then you would allow him in to your group of ‘experienced players’?

Yeah, we all know the answer to that. If players like you would not be selfish, he would not be wasting anyone’s time, his entering the fore as a dungeoneer would increase the playerbase for the dungeon. En masse, queue times would go down, groups would be easier to find, everything would become more efficient. But yes, if players like you continue to think of nothing but their rate of return over the next twenty minutes, each and every one of you will be wasting your time. But that’s a problem with you and those like you, and solvable by you and those like you, not the new player.

And ‘your logic’? What logic? You are claiming that it is okay to mistreat and exclude people because you don’t perceive them as being worth any of your time, based on a difference with no concretely measurable impact. Are racism and sexism logical? Would it be okay if we just closed the servers to new players? As they are obviously, by your ‘logic’, unworthy of mixing with we superior veterans of the game.

Pandeh.5248:

Berner.7289:

mexay.3902:

People here are missing the point. It’s not about being ‘elitist’

It’s about people reading and allowing the group leader to accept invites. Plain and simple.

As soon as you use the LFG tool, its not your group and you’re not the leader. The sooner you learn that, the less whiny you’ll be on the forums.

Please add me in game. So I can join you’r Arah path 3 group, then I demand we do story, since it’s not your group.

Would you blindly say “Okay lets do story” ? No you woudn’t.

If 4 of 5 people want to do story — and you don’t — then maybe you should just politely leave and let them do what they want. Start a new LFG and try again. The “creator” of the LFG has no special rights or privileges, just as the “creator” of a group has no special rights or privileges.

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

So let me get this straight, it was just claimed that your demographic’s selfishness is permissible because you don’t have time to even consider any courtesy for your fellow players. Yet it’s completely okay to exploit and exclude players who have even less time than you do?

You are honestly the most self-contradictory and hypocritical group that have ever graced the internet. That is an accomplishment worth being ashamed of.

I’m saying that that one person that doesn’t know what’s up is wasting the time of everyone else because he/she is unwilling to go watch a video on how to do the dung/unwilling to put the time into getting exotic gear (in both cases not a lot of time).

They also ignored the text that said “Experienced only” and just crashed the party anyways (rude and selfish).

It’s far more selfish to ask 4 other people to waste their time than it is to ask that one person to go do the things they should have done in the first place.

You can call me whatever names you want, but my logic is sound and you doing so just makes you appear as if you have no solid counter-argument thus resorting to name calling.

So if he watched a video on youtube, and had ascended gear, but had never actually run the dungeon, then you would allow him in to your group of ‘experienced players’?

Yeah, we all know the answer to that. He is not wasting anyone’s time, just as you were not when you were first learning the dungeon, the only difference between you and him is you weren’t surrounded by players so self-absorbed as to prevent you from learning.

And ‘your logic’? What logic? You are claiming that it is okay to mistreat and exclude people because you don’t perceive them as being worth any of your time, based on a difference without any realistically measurable impact. Are racism and sexism logical? Would it be okay if we just closed the servers to new players? As they are obviously, by your ‘logic’, unworthy of mixing with we superior veterans of the game.

Yea I would be fine with some one that’s watched a video, knows what to do, and is geared. I don’t know of anyone that wouldn’t.

If you don’t know what you’re doing and you expect others to carry you because you didn’t put in the time to even go watch a video then yes you are wasting other people’s time.

The inexperienced are mistreating the 4 other people by taking away their time.

I’ll do some simple math that illustrates why that person is the being selfish and illustrates the logic that you missed.

Say a run normally takes 15mins if done with an experienced group. Say it takes 5 mins longer because one person doesn’t know what they are doing. 5×4 (other players) = 20mins of other people’s time that they just wasted. There are many dungs where it’s not just 5 mins added… but far more. That extra time wasted gets multipled by the number of other players. You should hopefully understand the points I made and the logic now (4>1, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one).

champ.7021:

Aberrant.6749:

Yea I would be fine with some one that’s watched a video, knows what to do, and is geared. I don’t know of anyone that wouldn’t.

If you don’t know what you’re doing and you expect others to carry you because you didn’t put in the time to even go watch a video then yes you are wasting other people’s time.

It’s not mistreating anyone… the inexperienced are mistreating the 4 other people by taking away their time though.

I’ll do some simple math that illustrates why that person is the being selfish and illustrates the logic that you missed.

Say a run normally takes 15mins if done with an experienced group. Say it takes 5 mins longer because one person doesn’t know what they are doing. 5×4 (other players) = 20mins of other people’s time that they just wasted. There are many dungs where it’s not just 5 mins added… but far more. That extra time wasted gets multipled by the number of other players. You should hopefully understand the points I made and the logic now (4>1, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one).

But…but wanting someone to know something before entering a dungeon is…elitism at its worst. ITS RIPPING THE COMMUNITY APART WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!

^ Lol.

I have never been in a MMO where the basic requirements for doing anything with a group wasn’t to go watch a video so you know what’s going to happen and being geared appropriately. I don’t see why it’s all of a sudden a big deal to some people.

Watching youtube videos is not a requirement for anything in this game, and never will be.

Part of the fun is discovering things for yourself, and if you don’t like that, the LFG tool is not for you. Find an “experienced” group in map chat.

AntiGw.9367:

Watching youtube videos is not a requirement for anything in this game, and never will be.

Part of the fun is discovering things for yourself, and if you don’t like that, the LFG tool is not for you. Find an “experienced” group in map chat.

You’re welcome to do that with people who also want to play the content in that way.

Those players want to play in their own way. They aren’t preventing you from playing in your way… but you joining that party while not even having watched a video does prevent them from playing the way that they want…

Ignoring the text where it says “Speed” (so you can watch the movies) or “Experienced” (when you don’t know what’s going on) is selfish.

If people would just find like minded groups this wouldn’t be any sort of an issue.

Aberrant.6749:

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

So let me get this straight, it was just claimed that your demographic’s selfishness is permissible because you don’t have time to even consider any courtesy for your fellow players. Yet it’s completely okay to exploit and exclude players who have even less time than you do?

You are honestly the most self-contradictory and hypocritical group that have ever graced the internet. That is an accomplishment worth being ashamed of.

I’m saying that that one person that doesn’t know what’s up is wasting the time of everyone else because he/she is unwilling to go watch a video on how to do the dung/unwilling to put the time into getting exotic gear (in both cases not a lot of time).

They also ignored the text that said “Experienced only” and just crashed the party anyways (rude and selfish).

It’s far more selfish to ask 4 other people to waste their time than it is to ask that one person to go do the things they should have done in the first place.

You can call me whatever names you want, but my logic is sound and you doing so just makes you appear as if you have no solid counter-argument thus resorting to name calling.

So if he watched a video on youtube, and had ascended gear, but had never actually run the dungeon, then you would allow him in to your group of ‘experienced players’?

Yeah, we all know the answer to that. He is not wasting anyone’s time, just as you were not when you were first learning the dungeon, the only difference between you and him is you weren’t surrounded by players so self-absorbed as to prevent you from learning.

And ‘your logic’? What logic? You are claiming that it is okay to mistreat and exclude people because you don’t perceive them as being worth any of your time, based on a difference without any realistically measurable impact. Are racism and sexism logical? Would it be okay if we just closed the servers to new players? As they are obviously, by your ‘logic’, unworthy of mixing with we superior veterans of the game.

Yea I would be fine with some one that’s watched a video, knows what to do, and is geared. I don’t know of anyone that wouldn’t.

If you don’t know what you’re doing and you expect others to carry you because you didn’t put in the time to even go watch a video then yes you are wasting other people’s time.

The inexperienced are mistreating the 4 other people by taking away their time.

I’ll do some simple math that illustrates why that person is the being selfish and illustrates the logic that you missed.

Say a run normally takes 15mins if done with an experienced group. Say it takes 5 mins longer because one person doesn’t know what they are doing. 5×4 (other players) = 20mins of other people’s time that they just wasted. There are many dungs where it’s not just 5 mins added… but far more. That extra time wasted gets multipled by the number of other players. You should hopefully understand the points I made and the logic now (4>1, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one).

Well then I have no idea what you are arguing. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, no matter what other qualifications or talent. That is elitism, this is my medal, anyone else that doesn’t have it is inferior and unworthy and need not apply. Furthermore, such people will never be worthy and it is not the responsibility of anyone who is worthy to help them become so. That is the stance you have been defending.

Conncept.7638:

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

Why do you care if some people want to run with only experienced people. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you are new, as i said before, join a guild and ask there or join one of the groups that say anyone welcome and have fun with those 1 hr ac p3 runs. The only thing i disagree with is the AP requirement because that just shows people enjoy doing the faceroll LS content.

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

Conncept.7638:

Aberrant.6749:

So the person that hasn’t put in the time and effort to get geared up and look up the dung on youtube and then wastes the time of the other 4 people… and the 4 others are the selfish ones? I disagree.

So let me get this straight, it was just claimed that your demographic’s selfishness is permissible because you don’t have time to even consider any courtesy for your fellow players. Yet it’s completely okay to exploit and exclude players who have even less time than you do?

You are honestly the most self-contradictory and hypocritical group that have ever graced the internet. That is an accomplishment worth being ashamed of.

I’m saying that that one person that doesn’t know what’s up is wasting the time of everyone else because he/she is unwilling to go watch a video on how to do the dung/unwilling to put the time into getting exotic gear (in both cases not a lot of time).

They also ignored the text that said “Experienced only” and just crashed the party anyways (rude and selfish).

It’s far more selfish to ask 4 other people to waste their time than it is to ask that one person to go do the things they should have done in the first place.

You can call me whatever names you want, but my logic is sound and you doing so just makes you appear as if you have no solid counter-argument thus resorting to name calling.

So if he watched a video on youtube, and had ascended gear, but had never actually run the dungeon, then you would allow him in to your group of ‘experienced players’?

Yeah, we all know the answer to that. He is not wasting anyone’s time, just as you were not when you were first learning the dungeon, the only difference between you and him is you weren’t surrounded by players so self-absorbed as to prevent you from learning.

And ‘your logic’? What logic? You are claiming that it is okay to mistreat and exclude people because you don’t perceive them as being worth any of your time, based on a difference without any realistically measurable impact. Are racism and sexism logical? Would it be okay if we just closed the servers to new players? As they are obviously, by your ‘logic’, unworthy of mixing with we superior veterans of the game.

Yea I would be fine with some one that’s watched a video, knows what to do, and is geared. I don’t know of anyone that wouldn’t.

If you don’t know what you’re doing and you expect others to carry you because you didn’t put in the time to even go watch a video then yes you are wasting other people’s time.

The inexperienced are mistreating the 4 other people by taking away their time.

I’ll do some simple math that illustrates why that person is the being selfish and illustrates the logic that you missed.

Say a run normally takes 15mins if done with an experienced group. Say it takes 5 mins longer because one person doesn’t know what they are doing. 5×4 (other players) = 20mins of other people’s time that they just wasted. There are many dungs where it’s not just 5 mins added… but far more. That extra time wasted gets multipled by the number of other players. You should hopefully understand the points I made and the logic now (4>1, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one).

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

I’m agreeing that there needs to be a change to the LFG… and that people need to read the listings. I also see nothing wrong with wanting to play with people who are going to go get things done quickly and smoothly.

Personally I don’t require AP, but if some one does… who are you to tell them that they shouldn’t do their best to play with like minded/experienced players? AP and gear are the best things we have for that. It’s not perfect, but people are using what they have to find people similar to themselves.

I play with new players if I have the time (gasp). That doesn’t mean that I think that everyone else should be forced to do so though… or if I don’t have a lot of time that I should just not do it because a new player would make it take too long.

Lampshade.7569:

mexay.3902:

Lampshade.7569:

My experience was good therefore anyone else who has a bad experience is lying

I can change quotes and twist words to fit my purpose too.

Well played, Sir, but might I remind you that you, based apparently only on your own experience, stated “It doesn’t work”?

Your next point: The people using it are not using it correctly.
Well maybe you could teach them how to use it correctly, instead of, as I suspect, showering them with insults and kicking them without explanation.

True.

My point is that it doesn’t work as intended. I’ve had good experiences with it, but more so very bad experiences. People simply don’t read the message and hit ‘Join’

I get people wanting story mode when I listed for an explorable.

In order to function correctly it needs to be changed. You need to have an ‘accept’ function. As outlined in this thread there are clearly people who do not want just anyone joining groups. Obviously there are others who disagree and think you should let anyone and everyone join, but they’re disillusioned or are upset they aren’t in the ‘kool kidz klub’.

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

Why do you care if some people want to run with only experienced people. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you are new, as i said before, join a guild and ask there or join one of the groups that say anyone welcome and have fun with those 1 hr ac p3 runs.

What we are discussing is the design of the LFG tool.

It’s designed to find you any group fast, not to find you a highly specialized “elite” group slowly.

Joining a guild is more suitable for slowly searching highly specialized people. Slowly searching is not within the scope of the LFG tool as it’s currently designed.

Anything unclear?

AntiGw.9367:

champ.7021:

Conncept.7638:

Well that makes you an exception, not a rule. Did you even read the opening post? He wouldn’t accept anyone below a certain amount of AP, sorry but that is elitism. Don’t know why you are defending it if you clearly don’t agree with it.

Why do you care if some people want to run with only experienced people. Theres absolutely nothing wrong with that and if you are new, as i said before, join a guild and ask there or join one of the groups that say anyone welcome and have fun with those 1 hr ac p3 runs.

What we are discussing is the design of the LFG tool.

It’s designed to find you any group fast, not to find you a highly specialized “elite” group slowly.

Joining a guild is more suitable for slowly searching highly specialized people. Slowly searching is not within the scope of the LFG tool as it’s currently designed.

Anything unclear?

Got a quote that says that’s what it’s designed for and that it shouldn’t be used for anything else other than total randoms who can’t even be bothered to read what path the group wants to do?