Guild Wars 2

Yesterday I opened around 5k gifts and like many others, wasnt too keen on all the clicking. I just opened 10 more stacks and want to give a breakdown on how much more clicks are needed to break down all loot:

2.5k gifts – 5k clicks

20 stacks of essence of luck, refined into 600 exotic/legendary essences – 1200 clicks
1150 rune/sigil boxes – 2300 clicks
190 selectable rune/sigil boxes 760 clicks
1100 boxes of winter clothing – 2200 clicks
380 unsafe gifts – 760 clicks
850 bottle shaped gifts – 1700 clicks
310 finisher books – 620 clicks
1650 beautiful clothing – 1650 clicks with SOM

That makes an additional amount of over 11k clicks.
Was this really neccessary?

For those who are interested in the rare droprates:

from 7.5k gifts i got:

6 tonic recipes
5 mini ho ho trons
6 unbreakable choir bells
4 Endless Toymakers Tonics
3 red musical bell cases
1 festival wrapped beverage case (choice of endless toy tonic)
1 exotic aqua breather (givers stats selectable, upon others)
1×10 t6 claws

The beautyful clothing salvaged into:
400 silk scraps
60 each wool, linen and jute
30 each gossamer and cotton

snowflake breakdown:
t1 250
t2-5 125
t6 500

Well those are many clicks yo! \õ

Wanze.8410:

Yesterday I opened around 5k gifts and like many others, wasnt too keen on all the clicking. I just opened 10 more stacks and want to give a breakdown on how much more clicks are needed to break down all loot:

2.5k gifts – 5k clicks

20 stacks of essence of luck, refined into 600 exotic/legendary essences – 1200 clicks
1150 rune/sigil boxes – 2300 clicks
190 selectable rune/sigil boxes 760 clicks
1100 boxes of winter clothing – 2200 clicks
380 unsafe gifts – 760 clicks
850 bottle shaped gifts – 1700 clicks
310 finisher books – 620 clicks
1650 beautiful clothing – 1650 clicks with SOM

Wow, what are the odds that you would get not only an even number, but a number cleanly divisible by 10 for every item you received… :P

Invictus.1503:

Wanze.8410:

Yesterday I opened around 5k gifts and like many others, wasnt too keen on all the clicking. I just opened 10 more stacks and want to give a breakdown on how much more clicks are needed to break down all loot:

2.5k gifts – 5k clicks

20 stacks of essence of luck, refined into 600 exotic/legendary essences – 1200 clicks
1150 rune/sigil boxes – 2300 clicks
190 selectable rune/sigil boxes 760 clicks
1100 boxes of winter clothing – 2200 clicks
380 unsafe gifts – 760 clicks
850 bottle shaped gifts – 1700 clicks
310 finisher books – 620 clicks
1650 beautiful clothing – 1650 clicks with SOM

Wow, what are the odds that you would get not only an even number, but a number cleanly divisible by 10 for every item you received… :P

I imagine rounding.

Anyways, setting up either scroll-wheel click or a double-click button on your mouse is extremely worthwhile. It does feel like this whole “oooh, look a box/bag! Aren’t you excited to open it?! What could be inside?!” is getting out of control.

Consider: You complete an achievement. You get the shiny chest in the corner of the screen (1 container) that has 5 gifts (containers within a container) that then has sock/hat/sweater boxes (containers within containers within a container) that contain clothes you then have to salvage, and thus could be considered another “container”, since they have no value un-salvaged. (Therefore we have containers within containers within containers within a container) Seriously….

thehipone.6812:

Invictus.1503:

Wanze.8410:

Yesterday I opened around 5k gifts and like many others, wasnt too keen on all the clicking. I just opened 10 more stacks and want to give a breakdown on how much more clicks are needed to break down all loot:

2.5k gifts – 5k clicks

20 stacks of essence of luck, refined into 600 exotic/legendary essences – 1200 clicks
1150 rune/sigil boxes – 2300 clicks
190 selectable rune/sigil boxes 760 clicks
1100 boxes of winter clothing – 2200 clicks
380 unsafe gifts – 760 clicks
850 bottle shaped gifts – 1700 clicks
310 finisher books – 620 clicks
1650 beautiful clothing – 1650 clicks with SOM

Wow, what are the odds that you would get not only an even number, but a number cleanly divisible by 10 for every item you received… :P

I imagine rounding.

Anyways, setting up either scroll-wheel click or a double-click button on your mouse is extremely worthwhile. It does feel like this whole “oooh, look a box/bag! Aren’t you excited to open it?! What could be inside?!” is getting out of control.

Yeah i rounded.
And I am not really complaining about it because i made alot of profit from opening them.

With an average price of 6s per gift on the tp, i sold its loot for an average 10s and i needed around 3 hours game time for acquiring them, breaking them down and selling them.
Thats 100g/h but as I bought most of my ugly cloth to exchange for gifts while they wewre dirt cheap, my profit rate is more than double than that.

Thats very decent of course but before some people start blindly buying gifts and selling the loot, let me tell you that this is harder than it sounds. Without a proper set up, with a unlimited pass, salvage o matics, lots of free bag, bank (for account bound stuff) and guild bank space, knowledge of the market (i usually list 20-50% over the lowest listing, which give me alot of extra profit), those profit margins wont be possible and you will need way more time as well to acquire them at a good price and to break them down.
And if you cant quickly calculate from the top of your head, you will have a hard time calculating your profits.

And as i said, i got most of those gifts at a way cheaper price than actual market price right now, so my next batches will also result in way less profit for me.

It’s all a bit of a hassle. Ever since luck salvaging was added, we’ve recognized minor sigils and minor runes as the anti-loot and the anti-salvage. Once you’ve acquired 60 of them (read 50+ inventory slots) you’ll make a grand total of 9 silver and some odd change.

Whenever you are having a good day in open world and end up chaining from event to event, you’ll quickly find your inventory completely full. If you don’t have full luck, you’ll likely want to salvage your items. HOWEVER, what’s this? You’re on one of your alts that doesn’t have the Copper Fed Salvage O’ Matic? Gotto use that Mystic Salvage kit then. Next thing you know, most of your salvage items are having their slots instantly replaced with runes and sigils.

So you’re fumbling around with runes, sigils, luck and mats (some which have maxed out in your bank.) Salvage, deposit, drag, delete, salvage, deposit, salvage, get stuck walking slow, deposit, drag, delete, drag, delete, drag, delete.

Next thing you know, the 20+ sparkling mobs on the floor are starting to disappear, you’re having a hell of a hard time tagging the next wave, or your dungeon team is trying to move on and you’re walking off a cliff with your inv window open.

So…. minor runes and sigils are probably responsible for more loss in profits than gains.

To make matters worse, a lot of new players don’t even fuss with them.

My question is: Why did ArenaNet decide that we as players wanted/needed to have these things? And have them packed up in a bag that requires us to decide and accept ONE AT A TIME.

Why not just drop the two items directly out of the gifts so we get two neat stacks of stuff we can sell to a merch for a few silver rather than also loading us up two additional bag types (per tier) that take more inventory space and clicking?

Why do these things exist?

DarkWasp.7291:

My question is: Why did ArenaNet decide that we as players wanted/needed to have these things? And have them packed up in a bag that requires us to decide and accept ONE AT A TIME.

Why not just drop the two items directly out of the gifts so we get two neat stacks of stuff we can sell to a merch for a few silver rather than also loading us up two additional bag types (per tier) that take more inventory space and clicking?

Why do these things exist?

I think They used them as a test run. If we look back at 2014, we see that they made a mayor overhaul of many reward structures in game, starting with the first feature pack and concentrating on more account bound rewards, which was requested by a part of the player base. Then they introduced plenty new reward structures during LS Season 2, focussing on permament rewards compared to limited availability, alse requested by the player base.
The 2 Seasonal Festivals Halloween and Wintersday , even though not adding much new content got their rewards also reworked and tot bags, candy corn, snowflakes and wintersdays gifts are available year round now.
I think Anet also used those 2 festivals for experimenting a little on the rng front. I think its the smartest way to go. Try it out for 2 or 4 weeks, collect feedback and data, see what works and what not and then implement it permanently somewhere else next year.
Some mechanics obviously got some bad feedback, like Gwyn during halloween, the Click-Unwrap-a-thon that is Wintersday or the rng for the boss parts from SW.
But they also made some very smart new introductions lately for example the recipe books for sinister/verata gear. By giving the player the choice of which armor/weapon/trinket recipe he gets, prices will be more stable on the tp and make it harder to manipulate those prices with buy outs.

I think you’re most likely right on the whole “test periods” thing Wanze.

But I don’t see why Anet would possibly need to test whether clicking a billion different containers would get a bad reception from players. I mean, seriously, I’ve been seeing consistent complaints about the amount of clicking required for loot stuff for ages. At the very least for the last few months with Dry Top and to a greater extent Silverwastes, and possibly as far back as the introduction of champ bags. Did Anet really think to themselves “Hmm, if we triple the amount of clicking do you think the complaints will stop?” Testing is all well and good, but there are some things that you ought to be able to draw a conclusion on WITHOUT a test.

Also, totally not jealous of all your rare loot (especially ‘dem Ho-Ho Trons). Nope, not at all planning to mug you on the streets of Lion’s Arch and steal your stuff, noooo. Pay no attention to the swarm of armed skritt behind me with suspicious looks on their faces.

For future reference, turn on Windows Mousekeys, then press the + on the keypad. ALT+Shift+ Num Lock. Save your mouse.

Ken DeBoer.9268:

For future reference, turn on Windows Mousekeys, then press the + on the keypad. ALT+Shift+ Num Lock. Save your mouse.

Or get a programmable mouse and bind (to single, so’s not to break tos/get banned) left click to one of the scroll events, then just scroll like crazy.

Though with the mousekeys, can you just hold down the + and having it just constantly clicking?

skullmount.1758:

Ken DeBoer.9268:

For future reference, turn on Windows Mousekeys, then press the + on the keypad. ALT+Shift+ Num Lock. Save your mouse.

Or get a programmable mouse and bind (to single, so’s not to break tos/get banned) left click to one of the scroll events, then just scroll like crazy.

Though with the mousekeys, can you just hold down the + and having it just constantly clicking?

Thats what i do. A year ago, I even build a little construction out of lego technic, that included a 9 volt motor powering a cog wheel. I would slide it over my mouse and it would turn the wheel for me.

Merry Clickmas Everyone!

Wanze.8410:

skullmount.1758:

Ken DeBoer.9268:

For future reference, turn on Windows Mousekeys, then press the + on the keypad. ALT+Shift+ Num Lock. Save your mouse.

Or get a programmable mouse and bind (to single, so’s not to break tos/get banned) left click to one of the scroll events, then just scroll like crazy.

Though with the mousekeys, can you just hold down the + and having it just constantly clicking?

Thats what i do. A year ago, I even build a little construction out of lego technic, that included a 9 volt motor powering a cog wheel. I would slide it over my mouse and it would turn the wheel for me.

In theory, I would think that would make it a ‘botting program’ though, or at least maybe trigger whatever Anet uses (besides people reporting) to find bots.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Merry Clickmas Everyone!

Or if you have one of those unlock-to-freescrolling scroll wheels.

Merry Wiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmas Everyone!

skullmount.1758:

Wanze.8410:

skullmount.1758:

Ken DeBoer.9268:

For future reference, turn on Windows Mousekeys, then press the + on the keypad. ALT+Shift+ Num Lock. Save your mouse.

Or get a programmable mouse and bind (to single, so’s not to break tos/get banned) left click to one of the scroll events, then just scroll like crazy.

Though with the mousekeys, can you just hold down the + and having it just constantly clicking?

Thats what i do. A year ago, I even build a little construction out of lego technic, that included a 9 volt motor powering a cog wheel. I would slide it over my mouse and it would turn the wheel for me.

In theory, I would think that would make it a ‘botting program’ though, or at least maybe trigger whatever Anet uses (besides people reporting) to find bots.

Well, in real life, its a robot and not a program.

This is exactly what I was saying in one of my threads. The amount of clicking required to sort out your (mostly worthless) loot is ridiculous. I actually got RSI from all the clicking when I was dealing with the insane amount of junk that I got from just playing a few hours of Wintersday events.

The loot/reward system in GW2 really is like a casino gambling machine. A whole lot of flashy fancy bouncy stuff to make it seem like you get rewarded a lot but in reality you really get nothing worthwhile.

Anet please, less flashy bouncy stuff for a whole lot of nothing. Give us less quantity but more quality stuff please!

My wife has carpel tunnel and fibromyalgia. While she enjoyed this year’s Halloween event and the “mountains of loot” we were getting from the Mad King’s Labyrinth initially, it eventually turned into a rather painful experience when she tried opening all those bags.

I created macro on my Razer keyboard that repeatedly double-clicks when I hold one of my macro keys down (and then logged into her account on my PC to open all her bags). I am not going to get carpel tunnel syndrome myself and cut the life expectancy of my rather expensive gaming mouse by an order of magnitude because I have to individually open every single loot bag/box I get (especially when some bag/boxes spawn EVEN MORE bags/boxes).

We DESPERATELY need a Use All option on the right-click menu for those folks who do not have macro-capable keyboards, or either don’t know or aren’t comfortable using AutoHotkey or similar utilities. Perhaps Arena.Net is secretly on the payroll of all the major mouse manufacturers. (I’m joking, of course. :-) )

Arena.Net — you really need to consider that some of your players have physical conditions which make repeatedly double-clicking multiple stacks of boxes/bags painful. Heck, at the rate we’re going some people are probably going to develop repetitive stress conditions as a result of this. Even playing rather casually for a single night I can amass quite a large collection of loot bags. This much rapid repetitive motion is not healthy, not to mention that it’s going to put some serious undue wear and tear on our mice.

Seriously – I don’t understand why they would give us a “Deposit all collectibles” but not an " open all stuff " option.

It’s borderline annoying.

I’m not enjoying my rewards at all this Wintersday because of how long it takes to process all of it.

Third Eye.6718:

Harper.4173:

Seriously – I don’t understand why they would give us a “Deposit all collectibles” but not an " open all stuff " option.

It’s borderline annoying.

I’m not enjoying my rewards at all this Wintersday because of how long it takes to process all of it.

Probably because a deposit is merely that, where as opening a chest etc. is about creating a “hook” in mind through anticipation and getting something for free. It’s simply about conditioning the mind.

Of course when your doing thousands of them it can also have the opposite effect…

My guess its more a technical obstacle to be able to open 250 rng containers at once.

Dont design it in a way that opens all rng containers at once then. Just because the interface says “open all” doesnt mean the code behind it has to open them all at exactly the same time.

There’s no reasonable expectation that any number of users will get several thousand bags and open them all at once.

Many mice were worn out to bring us this information.

Windsagio.1340:

There’s no reasonable expectation that any number of users will get several thousand bags and open them all at once.

Some traders do exactly that. I usually get them on the TP and wait until i have several thousands before i open them all at once, to have a better sample size and it also greatly reduces your time spent on recording your loot and selling it.

I know many others do this as well and I bet you that most of them will be on either the royal terrace, on the airship or in lions arch while doing it.
I wouldnt be surprised, if clusters of those players in one map could cause lag issues on it.

Looks like they at least reduced some of the clicking with the latest patch. Not a ton, mind you, but some.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Looks like they at least reduced some of the clicking with the latest patch. Not a ton, mind you, but some.

What they also did was greatly raising the flake drop rate from gifts.
Guess what the main sink for flakes is?
The mystic forge.
I just used the t2-5 flakes i got from opening a stack of gifts and was able to forge 140 new ones.

Happy clicking.

For me? Trading Post. Not as much clicking.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

For me? Trading Post. Not as much clicking.

I guess you didnt check prices for flakes lately.

The average price to forge a giant gift just fell from over 12 silver before the hotfix to under 4s after it.

Doesn’t matter. If it’s enough to sell, I do so. Better use than I have for keeping them, and they have little use compared to candy corn.

DarkWasp.7291:

It’s all a bit of a hassle. Ever since luck salvaging was added, we’ve recognized minor sigils and minor runes as the anti-loot and the anti-salvage. Once you’ve acquired 60 of them (read 50+ inventory slots) you’ll make a grand total of 9 silver and some odd change.

The new runes and sigils that don’t even have an NPC price thake that to a totally new limit.

In Windows 7 and 8, you can configure your keyboard to act as a mouse. It would save your poor left button.

Just use a click macro – hold the button down and spam clicks. If they’re not going to ban players for automating instruments, they’re not going to ban for this.

I was just analyzing the snowflake sinks to see if its worth investing or not.
Promoting t4 flakes to t5 flakes (which are the only ones still in silver value) gave me around 75 silver profit per skillpoint after taxes based on a sample size of 50 forges.

A little low for me but i thought some might be interested in it.
Personal mileage may vary based on rng and market prices.

Idk, I’m small fries compared to Wanze but I still made 80g in a little more than an hour. Buying 500 of T2-T5 snowflakes, forging them, opening boxes, rinse and repeat. (Tbh I just wanted the endless tonics though)… I’m actually really excited for the sigils though, with any luck the next generation will start forging while prices are low.

Dasenthal.6520:

Idk, I’m small fries compared to Wanze but I still made 80g in a little more than an hour. Buying 500 of T2-T5 snowflakes, forging them, opening boxes, rinse and repeat. (Tbh I just wanted the endless tonics though)… I’m actually really excited for the sigils though, with any luck the next generation will start forging while prices are low.

But you made the profit off opening the gifts, not forging them.
If you bought the 250 gifts that you got from forging 500 each flakes directly at the tp, you only would have paid a couple of silver more.