Guild Wars 2

Greetings!
Why the thread? Ofc i can not pick, but i also would like to show what i came up up with the research on the 2 classes, and how they perform in dungeons, and hopefully i can gain more experiance based on oyur feedbacks on this.

So first of all lets say we ignore weapon skills and only look at utility, that does majorly decide serious battles, or can make parts insanely easy.
And that is what a “scholar” class role or major feature should be. (maybe i should actually say that to all sort of magic at all)

-Anyway lets take it by order. Mesmer :

A mantra, a reflect heal and a heal based on illusions.
Nothing special abaut any of them,
Trough i might say the mantra can be quite powerfull with mantra specialization, but not as powerfull by itself. It is good for some fights, because you might heal a bit less but 2 times and instant.
I might say Mirror is also usefull in some parts, when there are many ranged mobs, and it can be a serious edge if combined with Mirrored Feedback and Mimic.

-Necomancer:

If you consider Fiend as a heling tool its not really good, since it can die and gets on cooldown. I would assume the passive life steal and minor plus dmg can conpensate a bit, if ppl would not fear him to pull adds. Might say, Mesmer has a bit better “normal” self heal on this part.
But Necro gets compensated on the other 2 heals. Since Well of Blood is lasting 10 sec and is a Light combo field, that means It can give area retaliation, and remove conditions. Besides the fact it area heals for a decent time.
Consume conditions is not that good by itself, its to situational, but can be life saving if snares mean life or death, and those nasty half minute poisons. Its real power comes when you combine it with Plauge signet. You draw in all conditions from the party and not only remove them but also benefit from plus healing.

So i might dare say Necromancer healing skills are slightly more benefical in teamfight by themself. Mesmer is a bit more selfish.

Mesmer :
Mantras are not so amazing in teamfight or not specifically edged for teamplay. If you are not area healer mantra specced i recommend neglecting them.
Concentration and Resolve are quite good if you consider having a bit of backup at bosses, and dont want to get downed by some poison, or snare.
Decoy, Disenchanter, Defender and Mirror Img are all nice if you have an shatter or phantasm build.
But even still i would recommend using Disenchanter, that is quite powerfull if oyu consider it not only removes buffs but also conditions from your party.
Lets not forget Null field that does the same in aoe. Also powerfull if you have a condition heavy instance.

I must mention Mirrored feedback here again, that is an insanely powerfull tool in dungeons, exspecially when ranged mobs are clustered. Since it not only applyes to 1 target but to area araund them. Spells like this can mean life or death when entering some areas. (example Cm stables -_-) Or can make the battles a lot easyer or faster atleast.
It is a spell that must be considered when deciding, like Guardians line of warding or wall of reflection.
Must also mention mimic here, that can reflect ranged attack to, but it can store a “shot” and reflect it again.

Not to forget abaut veil of invis ,that not only helps save your teammates on the edge of death, but is alos a combo field of light, that grants retaliation and can clense conditions.
Arcane thievery can be be quite usefull in certaint situations, but i would not personally waste up a slot for souch a high cooldown skill only for that, even if you consider might get boons.
And least but not last the blink and portal that can be amazing when you are forced to get araund the terrain, or traps. Or even at certaint bosses.
To summarize i counted 4 condition removals- of them can also destroy boons.
2 Ranged defence (that also damages the enemy)
2 mobility skills
2 invis skills (1 also a combo field the other also summons clone)
And the party rezurrecter illusion of life.
Quite decent even if you dont count weapons skills at all.
Now to Necro.

Necromancer:
Wells…Quite powerfull if oyu consider they are all dark combo fields, whitch means you can almost permablind foes. Or atleast blind them many times, besides the main effect of the well.
Well of Darkness is basically blinding anyway (so i dont really understand why it has to be a same element combo field).
Well of corruption would be quite usefull if foes would deploy that many boons, but it is saved for certaint parts this way.
Well of Power is considerably more usefull ,when in condition heavy area, but the drawback is high cooldown and considerably small area…if your team runs araund a lot its not that good.
Well of suffering is the most powrfull in my eyes, it not only infilcts weakness but also deals massive damage in aoe, and is also a combo field. . . if you can place it well.

Spectral skills
Spectral armor is quite usefull in heavy pressured times. not only applyes protection, but also charges your Ds, that can take a lot of dmg to if you time your life siphon well.
Spectral Grasp and Walk are more like for pvp, but Walk can be quite usefull of you seriously need mobility, grasp is only needed if oyu seriously want to save other with a well timed chill.
Spectral wall now is something quite usefull, it is also a combo field, that can grant chaos armor or confusion, and also gives protection (trough only a short time) and makes foes vulnerable. Lets not even forget (trought the tooltip does not say) it lasts for 10 sec ish.
Pets…personalyl i found them totally useless, if you dont consider the minor dmg, the insane cooldown if they die, and they do die fast. Or the high cd skills they can use.

Poison cloud is a decent skill, bit nothing to serious. Many other classes can aoe poison anyway, exspecially it is a poison field, and applyes weakness if combined….Thief can alredy do it if traited to support.
Epidemic is quite usefull if combined with Signet of spite. Or at bosses that summon adds …you simple spread the massive condition list to adds each time from boss.
Corrupt boon is another form of Well of C. Not that usefull, but only 25 sec cd.
Blood is power , can be quite usefull of combined with might trait, it applyes a quite long bleeding, and the selfbleed is minimal. And the Life force gain can not be denied eather.

Right now i have a bit of stuff to do , but be back tomorrow to finish the summerization and signets.

So you basically spent all that time typing up things we can read in the tooltips?

Arcane thievery, by the way, when used in conjunction with a signet can be used to steal stacks of boons from bosses and then spread to the entire party.

Extremely useful in places where you run across bosses that maintain 25 stacks of might and protection. Especially for such a useless skill in comparison to Disenchanter (I think you are the only person I’ve ever seen claim to use one in a long time.)

You also failed to mention that most things a mesmer can lay down are ethereal fields which can proc chaos armor. I.E. Time Warp, Null Field, Feedback…..

Keep up the analysis… you missed more than you mentioned.

“Keep up the analysis… you missed more than you mentioned.”

Thats exacly why i want feedback like yours. Thy.

I’ve done dungeons on my 80 mesmer with a staff condition spec that plays decent support with the fury/might buffs bouncing around. It definitely has a supportive feel to it with all the field combos available. I’m not sure I enjoyed the style of play though. Most of the fights were popping 3 staff clones and auto attack.

I haven’t had time to get better at my necro, but at lvl 35ish I can say it feels more like a tanky condition pet class. In dungeons, I think I prefer the necro because the playstyle is more active and I feel like I have better control over enemy movement. Staff and scepter/focus was my choice for my necro, very fun to play in a group.

Mesmers are very versatile and have skills tailor made for specific parts of specific dungeons.

These include at the very least (including some already mentioned):
a) arcane thievery + signet of inspiration to steal major boons (ie 25 stacks of might) and give to your teammates
b) procs that give chaos armor within a field
c) reflection of projectiles from Feedback (does massive damage against certain boss/mob attacks). Reflection also from the iWarden phantasm that protects nearby allies
d) Time Warp to allow massive damage and conditions stacking for a short burst
e) mass invis (stealth) for whole party for 5 secs
f) shatter skills that cause Aoe confusion
g) crippling abilities caused by iBerserker and Temporal curtain
h) the Portal skill which can move an entire party well out of harms way and/or speed a party from A to B considerably faster

The key of course, as with any class, is to gain experience such that you know where and when to use the various skills and skill combos.. and to be aware of their cooldowns.

I don’t have a necro but great necros are always welcome in any group xD

The problem with the necro is synergy….that the way the trait trees are structured, a lot of those abilities listed are mutually exclusive…..ie you can have one OR the other, not both or a meaningful combination.

We have been trying to get the devs to focus on actual builds so they will stop doing just this and only looking at the misleading overall metadata list of abilities which CANNOT be joined in any meaningful way into viable builds other than a couple of very situational narrow roles.

Mesmer is the counter class with a solution to pretty much any problem. Getting shot down? Feedback. Too much boon on foes / condition to allies? Swap them. Noobs can’t get through traps? Portal.

Necro is the attrition class that can out-last most fights with the highest health pool, and a robust skill line up. Whif away all sorts of pressure with one press of a button. No surprises, slow and steady.

What more needs to be known about the two? If you want specifics, the only way to learn them both is to play to lv 80, then decide which one you like better.

HMM i doo agree on a lot of topics, and actually starting to reconsider to roll mesmer instead, trough my taste stands more for necro, but i can not deny the really sinergetic skilllist that is fundamentally op in some dungeons.
Of my experiance the projectile reflection is insanely usefull, when you meet a part like the stables in Cm. Or even at Mesmer-Ele boss in ac story. I am not sure what can a necro offer that can complement this….
Fine a lot of heal, and conditions. But lacks the versitality owerall.
On necro forum ppl keep saying Necro is the class i am looking for, but i am getting unsure. I hear so many mixed opinions, some say its a buggy crap, that as 1-2 viable builds, while others prase it as a god.
I barely hear any good abaut mesmer, trough i felt the dmg lacking insanely, and was a bit sluggish to me, it did had many unexploited options.

I have an 80 necro and an 80 mesmer myself. I can tell you the mesmer has tons more utility in almost every situation aswell as a higher chance of survival, even if glasscannon specced compared to a toughness heavy condition necro.

The reason is the way aggro and endurance works. You see, to get the best possible condition damage for a necro currently means stacking pres/tough/condi gear with undead runes. This gives you high condition damage aswell extra defense, the downside is that it makes you a major aggro magnet.

1. You have high condition damage.
2. Your high toughness will most likely get the mobs attention.

Sure thats sweet and all, if it wasnt for the fact that necros lack any form of endurance regen besides the base one. They have no traitable vigor or extra base end regen. You are a deer in the headlights. Its not a major issue in current dungeons, but when you get higher up in fractals and the mob group size increase you can expect 10+ mobs wanting your skull on platter.

Mesmer on the other hand, even as a glasscannon spec, you have tons of survivability. You also have a very reliable source of vigor, its up 100% of the time more or less. You also dont get aggro in the blink of an eye, even if you dish out heavy crits. I run a balanced phantasm/shatter spec, it works wonders and deals massive damage.

It’s 30/30/0/0/10, I run GS/Scepter+pistol (many argue that scepter suck, but I find it far more useful than sword). Utilities are Feedback, Decoy and Mirror Image mostly along with Time Warp as elite. I can start a fight by doding in (spawning a clone) popping Mirror Image and a Daze shatter, inflicting a nice amount of vulnerability for my group, I can then proceed by another dodge, decoy and a GS2, then mind wrack, after that I summon zerker, duelist, get a blind of then apply some confusion through scepter3+feedback (unless its a ranged mob in which case I save feedback for one of their heavier attacks).

With my necro I pull off some AoEs, Blood is Power, Dagger4 or staff4 to inflict my BiP self bleed on the target aswell. Then I have aggro and feel endurance starved in seconds. Having to pop in and out of DS doing much less damage than I can outside DS.

I like both but currently I prefer my Mesmer. High damage, high survivability, great group sync and so on. If they release a prec/vit/condi set my necro can use maybe it will be more fun, but currently its an aggro kitten.

I’m not very experienced with dungeons, but when I have I have tried to run my support Nec. That’s Well of Blood, Suffering, Corruption, and Power. Lich for when everything seems to be on cooldown.
Traits are
0/
20/ 4. Cast enfeebling blood when entering ds. 9. Wells use ground targeting.
20/ 4. Wells apply protection. 2. Marks are bigger and unblockable
30/ 6. Life Transfer heals allies. 7. Wells recharge in <36 sec (-20% time) 9. AOH Leaving DS
0

With this I can:
- do substantial AODOTs (wells, life transfer, locust swarm, lich),
- remove boons (well),
- remove conditions (well and staff),
- AOH with blood,
- AOH with life transfer,
- AOH when leaving ds,
- steal life (dagger),
- stun/interrupt (horn),
- dark fields x3 w/ protection,
- light field x 1 w/ protection,
- and enter ds when endurance is empty (causing weakness and poison AOE, and gaining fury 5s).

It’s not perfect or unkillable, but it feels very versatile, active, and helpful across the battlefield.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQQQNBmQDbESrSPTzTjhPBIpA7nne094bHp44hB
(this build editor doesn’t seem to properly show all the effect with the icons at the bottom, but it gives a great trait summary by mousing over the traits button)

Scepter+pistol I agree. I was making builds for try out, and Scepter seemed to have many interesting and usefull traits actually.
By the way, what is the attack number on phantasms? Is there a fixed number? I did try to count it, but differed eachtime. Do theyhave a decent damage? Should i keep them out? Or just suecide them in with rest of clones?

I ado agree, Mesmer does have a lot more utility, whitch currently is a quite powerfull for low skill tier pugs, or high end arranged team.
Healing can quite powerfull to, but not when ppl get 1 hitted anyway, or have broken-low lv armor on them, that also destroys them. And healing becomes useless.
I been running with support thief-shortbw, and shadow reffuge was seriously life saver, but it had insane cooldown to be usefull. (if i dont count the stealth.)

I do love heaaling and the theme of Necro a LOT better, but still the game mechanic seems o be slightly more detailed with mesmer, and i think that i what i am looking for.
Thank you again.

With the right setup (traits, gear, tactics, utilites) you and your phantasms will deal massive damage.

Feedback also negates very annoying spells that bosses might have, the fire shaman’s fire bubble+agony can infact be redirected to him.

I enjoy both classes but necro feels unfinished and you need to handle aggro with necros way too much.

One thing that really gives the necro utility is actually his staff skills, they are amazing to say the least.

With improved marks and reduced CD on staff skills you have an unblockable condition cleanser with staff4. You can throw it 1200 yards away, it covers a HUGE area and you as a caster dont even need to stand in it to have your conditions cleansed. It has a 20 sec CD and cleanses just as good as many other classes utility cleanse skills.

It also allows for some pure evil condition combos. Combines with Blood is Power, Corrosive Poison Cloud and Epidemic its pure golden in dungeons.

My suggestion, after some thinging, would be to go with the necro if you like the style of the class, since they are very different from mesmers. I run scepter+dagger and staff on my necro, 0/30/20/20/0 spec, full pres/toughness/condi gear. Have just below 1600 condi damage and 45%+ crit, close to 1900 toughness and around 21000 life.

I used to be 20/30/20/0/0 but lately I’ve come to prefer the healing and vit from the blood tree. I run 50% more effect on siphon health aswell as siphon health on crit. The tree also buffs my regeneration from staff/the trait passive a bit and gives me a bit more healing on my main heal. All spite gave me was 200 power and 20%longer conditions. The conditions are long enough with just scepter skills and extra bleed duration from curses.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQMQNAoYWjQaV6Zaia87JipHe7biD+g7jZQshB;T8Ag1yqEUJdS1kiKKgMAJAyCkDIJQrKGYMrA

I use that, and i found it works really well in Dungeons and PvE, i very rarely PvP..

P.s. Why GW2 forum says its a bad link is beyond me? try copy and paste…

I had the same problem and could not decide for a long time. Mesmer is very fun- porting around the field, setting up combo fields and generally taking the fight into your own hands is very fun. It’s a bit tricky to set up, though, and is frustrating to level. It lacks a few things that help it feel well-rounded, but has great reward for those willing to take the time and effort to get it there.
Necromancer is more foundationally sound. Each necromancer build is fairly straightforward, and there are many different builds that are very solid, including AOE support, melee damage, and minions. Generally, I find necromancer has useful abilities for whatever it is I am doing. It does not, however, have the utility that mesmer has for specific fights.
For example, necromancer has more accessable run speed buffs, which is useful for leveling and traveling the world, and also has wells and marks for AOE support and tagging mobs in events. Is fairly straightforward and can be used for many different aspects of the game. It can’t, however, shut down specific bosses with specific utility skills like a mesmer can (feedback on a major projectile they know is coming, etc).
Overall, necromancer will serve well in whatever general purpose you are looking for. A mesmer, on the other hand, will dominate any battle he is prepared for.