Might-Why No Healing Power?
3.5k dodge heals from guards would be both hilarious and delicious.
Anyone who has ever seen a guardian’s health go all the way up with a single healing skill knows healing is already enough as it is.
No need to bring back something as ridiculous as GW1’s healing prayers skills.
Anyone who has ever seen a guardian’s health go all the way up with a single healing skill knows healing is already enough as it is.
No need to bring back something as ridiculous as GW1’s healing prayers skills.
From a pvp perspective a guardian usually has less than 20k hp. So a single healing skill might seem large but unless its clerics or whatever else has healing power its not like they used a single healing skill to heal for over 10k+hp.
I never mentioned anything about bringing back skills from gw1. I was just wondering why might doesn’t have healing power? If its not considered op to have 25 might stacks that give 35 power and condi power per stack for dps. Then why cant we have a stacking boon that helps defensive or self sustaining builds maximize on healing power? Like the way dps builds that utilize might stacks. Its not like it doesnt have a counter cause their is poison condi.
Because bunker/turtle builds are poison for pvp and Anet doesn’t need to encourage them anymore than they already do.
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they don’t want dedicated healers in PvE.
we don’t need absolutely unkillable bunker specs in a capture only-PvP gamemode.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
MARA (EU) Gunnar’s Hold
There are more counters for burst than there are for healing.
Heh… medi guard fully healing with every medi popped… that would be something cool and terrifying all at once.
On a 30-40 second window for the other two utilities, without a condition cleanse, and no blink/mobility (sitting duck).
Sure the guard healed up and survived initial burst damage with burst healing, but the burst damage is ready to down the guard far earlier than the healing will be ready, and he will have no good way to stick to you.
To OP, I wondered same though on having a way to up healing power via boons for short durations, much like might. Or even have traits that convert power into healing power… those would make certain dps specs on some professions even more powerful through sustain though.
So hard to balance across all spectrums of builds/professions/gametypes, thus I guess no action taken as of yet.
As a DPS you can choose to go all might and this 20 stack of might helps to boost you to the extreme.
It seems unfair that a player who’s chosing to sacrifice DPS over healing, and thus goes all healing/support should not have the chance to boost -his- choice.
Healing is a funny stat.
It is weak when you have little of it, and ridiculously OP when you have a lot. That’s if your only goal is to not die and heal others.
As a DPS you can choose to go all might and this 20 stack of might helps to boost you to the extreme.
It seems unfair that a player who’s chosing to sacrifice DPS over healing, and thus goes all healing/support should not have the chance to boost -his- choice.
Because ANet wants no dedicated heal. Btw, I surely don’t want what feels like a 1000 tick on warrior’s healing signet…
Healing is a funny stat.
It is weak when you have little of it, and ridiculously OP when you have a lot. That’s if your only goal is to not die and heal others.
Do you mean it’s OP by the relative amount of punishment you can negate over a zerker build? Or are you taking the whole picture in too (i.e. sacrificing a good portion of your build/gear/stat boosts/food/utilities/etc to improve healing to the max degree)?
Because, IMO, when you take in the whole picture (how much DPS, utility, mobility can a healing power build manage in the scope of a game where neglecting any of the above 3 for a focus that isn’t quite as important as them pretty much shoots yourself in the foot)…it’s not really that OP. No more OP than the potential to near one-shot someone from range in the frame of a couple seconds (or less).
As for the OP, i don’t think anymore advantage should be tied to might. Might is too powerful of a boon as it is. I wouldn’t be opposed though, to tying some sort of “Heal Boost” to a different boon. How about Retaliation? Gives the user of the boon a +8 to 10% boost to all incoming healing including your own?
Maybe make it only increase “outgoing heal” to allies, just like Aquatic Benevolence.
1% per stack of Might would be good, given the 25 cap on Might, you get a 25% increase(Equivalent to Aquatic Benevolence at 25 stacks of Might).
If there is an issue with the Trait and Might effects stacking together to be OP, put a cap on maximum of 25%(?) increase on the “outgoing heal”.
Or make a whole new Boon that increases Healing Power by 35 per stack(25 cap).
Or make a whole new Boon that increases outgoing heal by 1% per stack (25 cap).
Or incorporate an additional effect of increased % “outgoing heal” into Protection or Vigor.
I’d rather have a boon that gave you health for each time you were attacked, dependant on healing power. A sort of defiant stance boon.
Oh, and make regeneration scale better with healing power.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Healing is a funny stat.
It is weak when you have little of it, and ridiculously OP when you have a lot. That’s if your only goal is to not die and heal others.
Do you mean it’s OP by the relative amount of punishment you can negate over a zerker build? Or are you taking the whole picture in too (i.e. sacrificing a good portion of your build/gear/stat boosts/food/utilities/etc to improve healing to the max degree)?
Bit of both. It’s only downfall is that PvE content is easy, so it depends on what kind of team you’re running stuff with. But that doesn’t change the fact that its ability to stay alive and keep others alive is mind blowing.
In WvW it’s bonkers, and in PvP people always cry about Healing-stacking bunker Guardians.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
Okay, name some?
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
Okay, name some?
you probably can’t do it any more. Since Anet did some of the fix.
One of it is a video someone doing subject alpha, a warrior just stand next to it and dance, and healing signet is enough to heal through it.
Another is staff elementist can auto attack the spider queen and the healing from water 1 autoattack is enough to heal through spider queen solo. You can’t do it anymore I think because spider queen actually do her aoe now in melee range I think. I havn’t play GW2 for a while, so I’m not too sure on the details.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
Okay, name some?
Whole map except for a few champs in Orr and Karka in Southsun, there you may need to dodge.
In dungeons it’s the same, in fractals it’s the same.
Recently in WvW our server won the tourney partially because we abused healing power tome of courage guards. It was crazy, 1-2 of these Guards made the whole zerg nearly immortal.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
Okay, name some?
you probably can’t do it any more. Since Anet did some of the fix.
One of it is a video someone doing subject alpha, a warrior just stand next to it and dance, and healing signet is enough to heal through it.
Another is staff elementist can auto attack the spider queen and the healing from water 1 autoattack is enough to heal through spider queen solo. You can’t do it anymore I think because spider queen actually do her aoe now in melee range I think. I havn’t play GW2 for a while, so I’m not too sure on the details.
The way those are described, it seems to be a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
It’s harder to glitch the Spider Queen now but you couldn’t afk a zerker next to it even before it was fixed. I think laokoko is still correct.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
Okay, name some?
Whole map except for a few champs in Orr and Karka in Southsun, there you may need to dodge.
In dungeons it’s the same, in fractals it’s the same.
Which boss encounters?
Recently in WvW our server won the tourney partially because we abused healing power tome of courage guards. It was crazy, 1-2 of these Guards made the whole zerg nearly immortal.
I’m not a Guardian player but, isn’t Tome of Courage an elite skill with like a 30sec duration and a 2min cooldown? How big of a zerg are we talking about here? 10 people?
And if I’m not mistaken, Tome of Courage can completely heal a team to full regardless of healing power.
There are some videos people could pretty much afk or autoattack bosses because they stack healing power.
That is quite silly actually.
In GW2? That sounds like a problem with the boss encounter, not stacking healing power.
No, not at all. That guy is right, you can basically afk in all manner of places without dying.
Okay, name some?
Whole map except for a few champs in Orr and Karka in Southsun, there you may need to dodge.
In dungeons it’s the same, in fractals it’s the same.
Which boss encounters?
You are being silly now.
Recently in WvW our server won the tourney partially because we abused healing power tome of courage guards. It was crazy, 1-2 of these Guards made the whole zerg nearly immortal.
I’m not a Guardian player but, isn’t Tome of Courage an elite skill with like a 30sec duration and a 2min cooldown? How big of a zerg are we talking about here? 10 people?
And if I’m not mistaken, Tome of Courage can completely heal a team to full regardless of healing power.
Err no.
You have several Guards rotate the tomes on demand of the commander, usually we did about 5-6 rotations, and sometimes we had a pair of Guards cast tomes at the same time. Basically sort the same thing as you do with War banners. We usually ran avg 20-25 man zergs against same size or bigger zergs. We could take something twice the size without much of an issue, or tank through an absurd amount of AC fire.
Light of Deliverance is not useful, it has too long cast time. In most WvW fights you have to be on the move all the time only stopping for might stacking so it’s very hard to make use of 4sec+ cast time spell. It’s all about Heal Area spam. That skill has good scaling with healing, so it makes perfect sense to stack at least 1k or more of the stat because it also benefits your 100% scaling dodge roll and empower heals. A lot of people ran with ~1800.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
As a DPS you can choose to go all might and this 20 stack of might helps to boost you to the extreme.
It seems unfair that a player who’s chosing to sacrifice DPS over healing, and thus goes all healing/support should not have the chance to boost -his- choice.
It would be unfair if the game forced a number of players to pick healing over DPS. Which, to my knowledge, it does not.
Oh in my image,
(some one said 20 might brings 25% damage)
if something others works on healing,
gj,zerker necromancer build with PTV gears will be a real dreadnaught bunker(tank) and still have high damage..
You are being silly now.
I’d like to search for these encounters online before setting something up in-game.
I have yet to just afk a fight and fights that it were possible is likely because of exploitation of AI.
Err no.
You have several Guards rotate the tomes on demand of the commander, usually we did about 5-6 rotations, and sometimes we had a pair of Guards cast tomes at the same time. Basically sort the same thing as you do with War banners. We usually ran avg 20-25 man zergs against same size or bigger zergs. We could take something twice the size without much of an issue, or tank through an absurd amount of AC fire.
Unless there’s a means of going over the AoE cap, such tactics still require high amounts of coordination.
You can’t attribute coordinated healing to the viability of healing power boosted builds.
Either way, it being OP or not, it is definitely not overpowered in PvE. If it were possible to put healing boosters in a boon, limiting it to PvE or powering it down in WvW might be the simplest solution.
You are being silly now.
I’d like to search for these encounters online before setting something up in-game.
I have yet to just afk a fight and fights that it were possible is likely because of exploitation of AI.
Err no.
You have several Guards rotate the tomes on demand of the commander, usually we did about 5-6 rotations, and sometimes we had a pair of Guards cast tomes at the same time. Basically sort the same thing as you do with War banners. We usually ran avg 20-25 man zergs against same size or bigger zergs. We could take something twice the size without much of an issue, or tank through an absurd amount of AC fire.
Unless there’s a means of going over the AoE cap, such tactics still require high amounts of coordination.
You can’t attribute coordinated healing to the viability of healing power boosted builds.
Either way, it being OP or not, it is definitely not overpowered in PvE. If it were possible to put healing boosters in a boon, limiting it to PvE or powering it down in WvW might be the simplest solution.
Wait what? There is no reason why you can’t. It’s the same as saying that coordinated speedruns cannot be attributed to bers. To be more precise these things are actually interrelated. In case of this particular strategy for example it’s both about coordinated healing and high Healing Power. Just look at base value of Safeless Daring, yup it’s 129. Now tell me that Healing Power, that makes it go to ~1929 doesn’t play a vital role.
To be fair the cap is not a big issue because Heal Area has no cooldown. You simply spam it at your feet while the team is closely stacked next to you. The main issue is to have a steady rotation of them, and that’s not as difficult as it may sound.
The way I see it is in terms of sustain relative to other builds, healing power is broken when stacked in great quantities, even in PvE. That I’m 100% positive about. Not needed though, because the content is easy.
I think you started to argue for the sake of arguing. The best I can do to pinpoint an encounter is “That lizard over there and that zombie over here” so if you want to mess around, get a Cleric set preferably on a Guard, and see how much punishment you can take. It’s pretty funny.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
they don’t want dedicated healers in PvE.
we don’t need absolutely unkillable bunker specs in a capture only-PvP gamemode.
Dedicated healers? What? Nobody said anything about reducing heals to 0 cooldown so that players can dedicate their ability rotation entirely to healing.
Wait what? There is no reason why you can’t. It’s the same as saying that coordinated speedruns cannot be attributed to bers. To be more precise these things are actually interrelated.
And this has been argued into the ground as being a problem with in-game encounters, not particularly damage stacking zerker specs. The larger contributor to that problem is stacking: teams will stack, AI will follow, cleaves will hit mostly all and multi-hit AoEs become broken.
Why attribute that issue to zerker gear? How is it not only part of a problem?
To be fair the cap is not a big issue because Heal Area has no cooldown. You simply spam it at your feet while the team is closely stacked next to you. The main issue is to have a steady rotation of them, and that’s not as difficult as it may sound.
So healing power is OP because Guardian has a no-cooldown AoE heal as an elite skill?
The way I see it is in terms of sustain relative to other builds, healing power is broken when stacked in great quantities, even in PvE. That I’m 100% positive about. Not needed though, because the content is easy.
And that’s sort of how MMOs tend to work: you get a healing build or class, they can heal off a lot of damage but can barely dish it out.
IMO, the main reason why healing power isn’t OP is the culmination of all aspects of the game being that healing is hardly necessary, some of the content being very linearly approached and what one sacrifices to attain superior healing.
I think you started to argue for the sake of arguing.
Perhaps, but that’s what people do in forums. Am I being unreasonable or confrontational in my replies?
The best I can do to pinpoint an encounter is “That lizard over there and that zombie over here” so if you want to mess around, get a Cleric set preferably on a Guard, and see how much punishment you can take. It’s pretty funny.
Well, like I mentioned before, I don’t play Guardian. It has yet to appeal to me. Is the approach you speak of possible with other classes?
Funnily enough, I do have a Cleric and Celestial set for my mesmer. A while back, I did abuse Phantasmal Regen, healing mantras and Illusionary Defender (before phantasms were nerfed). I could create a loop of dispersed damage + healing + regen + resummoning to solo Champs. It took a while to do and also some coordination (and spamming mantras) and I’d hardly call it afk auto-attacking since I’d use no less than 8 skills to accomplish and maintain it.
I feel it’d be quite difficult to accomplish heal-afk-auto-attack defeat of a Champ on a Mesmer with less than what I used.
Because healing that is too strong in PvP creates more QQ than you can possibly imagine.
Or words to that effect.
Wait what? There is no reason why you can’t. It’s the same as saying that coordinated speedruns cannot be attributed to bers. To be more precise these things are actually interrelated. In case of this particular strategy for example it’s both about coordinated healing and high Healing Power. Just look at base value of Safeless Daring, yup it’s 129. Now tell me that Healing Power, that makes it go to ~1929 doesn’t play a vital role.
I’m sorry, but this is actually a tad funny.
What do you think healing power should do to Selfless Daring? Not improve the heal effect? And to the trait’s defense, the coefficient is cut in half in PvP, so that dodge roll will get you a 1k heal on a dodge roll, which is still pretty nice but requires nearly half your stats?
In order:
Yes and no, I don’t think you read into this properly. In my mind it’s all interrelated, and in the last line you essentially paraphrased what I wrote.
No, I’d rather say because the heals are resourceless and on a short CD. That’s not an issue because their base values are quite small for what you’d expect from a “healer” but when you stack enough Healing Power that stops being so. Suddenly your ability to survive and keep stuff alive becomes pretty absurd.
Except normally you are limited by something like mana. Typically you either take little damage or heal a lot. Here you sort of get both, for free.
In terms of PvE you could say it’s not OP because not needed but in terms of survivability and healing I can’t call it anything but that. It depends on how you look at it.
I think that Guardian benefits most from this stat but you can achieve a similar effect on Elementalist and Engineer. Ele is probably really controversial since they can also dish out a ridiculous amount of damage with a glass cannon build.
Engies will have passive regen and healing on autoattack, so I reckon you’d be able to solo a lot of things by afk and spamming autos.
Wait what? There is no reason why you can’t. It’s the same as saying that coordinated speedruns cannot be attributed to bers. To be more precise these things are actually interrelated. In case of this particular strategy for example it’s both about coordinated healing and high Healing Power. Just look at base value of Safeless Daring, yup it’s 129. Now tell me that Healing Power, that makes it go to ~1929 doesn’t play a vital role.
I’m sorry, but this is actually a tad funny.
What do you think healing power should do to Selfless Daring? Not improve the heal effect? And to the trait’s defense, the coefficient is cut in half in PvP, so that dodge roll will get you a 1k heal on a dodge roll, which is still pretty nice but requires nearly half your stats?
It has to do with what is expected of a Guard in that situation. In PvP you are expected to hold nodes, decap and bunker for which you mainly need high sustain and resilience. It doesn’t matter that you drop your offensive capability.
In WvW you could argue that it’s a bit of a gray area. Some guild raids prefer Guards to also apply some pressure on the enemy, however they are still not expected to be the main source of damage. As such you would rarely see a WvW Guard that doesn’t stack a decent amount of healing. Like I said these scalings are very solid, while the base values on some of the key skills/traits are lacking. Selfless Daring in particular is a good example.
(edited by Spirigo.2897)
Okay so since they have already separated the scores between pve pvp there shouldn’t be an issue with adjusting the healing accordingly.
Second, there shouldn’t be any issue with boosting healing to other players rather than self in the open world PVE. It’s not that hard to do. You just change the values that it achieves for other players. I can understand them wanting to keep healers from being OP to themselves, but what about helping others, the central role of having healing in the first place. Duh. It needs to happen plain and simple, otherwise there’s no trinity at all not even Arenanet’s trinity with support really.
Condi removal also needs to be more of an AOE thing on healing specs. There should be a selection in traits on every class that can heal that removes condis from friendlies with certain skills. It’s a no brainer.
When I was playing DnD any spells that we felt were missing that should be in the campaigns we were playing we put in ourselves and setup the rules for them. I can’t imagine why it’s taking so long to correct these rather severe mistakes in combat in PVE I really can’t…
And all these people worried about PVP who cares, they can keep PVP exactly the same most people want more diversity in PVE roles where it’s actually needed. Tired of boring combat? well stand up for better diversity for actual roles outside of Zerker everything you’ll have better combat when Condi stacking, condi removal, CC, Support all become balanced trust me!
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