Guild Wars 2

Oh you forum bug…

I agree might and vulnerability are far too easily obtained. A lot of skills generate one or the other with very little penalty. A player should only purposely generate might or vulnerability at a substantial cost in personal dps – taking one for the team, as it were.

Right now, might and vulnerability are as common as crushed oaty-O’s on the floor in a house of a family with young children.

Increase all might durations by 300%

Limit might stacks to 5.

Now it’s balanced, and doesn’t make preparatory hugs with only the jut right classes the only efficient way to complete content or kill people.

Alternately, give everyone more might and balance the whole game around the assumption everyone has 25 stacks of might at all times. You know, it’s backwards and annoying but at least people won’t cry because they “got nerfed”

Might Stacking isn’t the problem. The problem is You can’t might stack without a very small selection of classes and skills which kills build diversity and is as bad for forming groups as the “LF Healer & tank, DPS full” design you intended to get away from with GW2’s combat system.

If the goal of GW2’s system is that all classes can fill all roles, stop making certain classes obscenely better at filling certain roles, or go all in and just create a proper tank/dps/healer trinity as in the end it has the exact same effect

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Doon.2364:

I disagree. I think all profession can use more might. Heck I would love to increase the limit of might to 250 stack seeing how condition limit has been raised.

This. This so much.

Fights don’t need to take longer… NEED MORE MIGHT!

which would stack condition dmg through the roof as well….

THIS WHOLE THREAD ISN’T ABOUT MIGHT *
*IT’S ABOUT FORCEFUL GREATSWORD

Forcefull GS might be powerfull but it will get quite some compeditors.
All will be able to selfstack…: 25 might… and who cares…

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Doon.2364:

I disagree. I think all profession can use more might. Heck I would love to increase the limit of might to 250 stack seeing how condition limit has been raised.

This. This so much.

Fights don’t need to take longer… NEED MORE MIGHT!

But can’t you see all those level 80s in full ascended dancing happily in Queensdale
now all the time because they need longer to kill low level mobs ? They have waited
sooo long for it to finally get their big challenge in starter areas.

And all the joy each time Shadow Behemoth spawns the next round of portals.
People have prayed for that long years .. and now they make camp fires and dance
around them each time we get more portals, because finally we have even moar
great challenge in Queensdale ..

Now for the final challenge we need the Shatterer spam fear every 2-3 seconds
through all the fight .. that would be sooo great .. and people will not start to
complain until we finally get that ^^

Beldin.5498:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Doon.2364:

I disagree. I think all profession can use more might. Heck I would love to increase the limit of might to 250 stack seeing how condition limit has been raised.

This. This so much.

Fights don’t need to take longer… NEED MORE MIGHT!

But can’t you see all those level 80s in full ascended dancing happily in Queensdale
now all the time because they need longer to kill low level mobs ? They have waited
sooo long for it to finally get their big challenge in starter areas.

Luckily I already have 9 times map completion, I just get my 189/189 and 486/486 and then just run my next alt. no fighting whatsoever unless you mean the skill points… (had a lot of lols doing those with my mace guardian in cleric/nomads, just press 1 and go and get a new cup of coffee; when you return everything is quiet I’m afk facetanking who-oh….. Oh and no might whatsoever.. else I need to run with my coffee…

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Beldin.5498:

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Doon.2364:

I disagree. I think all profession can use more might. Heck I would love to increase the limit of might to 250 stack seeing how condition limit has been raised.

This. This so much.

Fights don’t need to take longer… NEED MORE MIGHT!

But can’t you see all those level 80s in full ascended dancing happily in Queensdale
now all the time because they need longer to kill low level mobs ? They have waited
sooo long for it to finally get their big challenge in starter areas.

Luckily I already have 9 times map completion, I just get my 189/189 and 486/486 and then just run my next alt. no fighting whatsoever unless you mean the skill points… (had a lot of lols doing those with my mace guardian in cleric/nomads, just press 1 and go and get a new cup of coffee; when you return everything is quiet I’m afk facetanking who-oh….. Oh and no might whatsoever.. else I need to run with my coffee…

Level 2 skelks in Queensdale need more one-hit kills against players in nomads
gear. We now should complain for that every day until we finally get back our
well earned challenge in Queensdale. Its bad bad game design that a level 80
in full nomads gear won’t have a challenge in Queensdale

I mean .. err .. beside the challenge not to fall asleep without your coffee

What’s with all the nerf’s threads?

When finally the kind of “zerker is the bane of gw2” topic settles down, another one rises asking for nerf. The only thing that those threads have in common is that people really think that nerfing traits/skills will make the game more challenging and fun. It won’t, it is a 3 years old content with a poor AI, a nerf will not fix nor change that fact.

Despite the game having no trinity, some professions still have their peculiarities. If might and vulnerability is too easy to obtain then I will preach that the passive bleed, poison, torment etc you get from auto attacks are also too easy to obtain.

OP, there’s a reason might is easy to stack: solo players need to be able to buff themselves, too. Your suggested changes would effectively further discourage solo play. The fact that everyone is able to stack some might is important, and if people needlessly overlap redundant might then that is the party’s fault. But you act as if there is such a thing as too much might.

If you don’t coordinate with your party, you will easily get to 25 stacks of might when you could easily delegate that to one or two of your party and the other 3 help stack other useful boons. In an ideal world, the entire party will be able to buff each other with ALL of the boons in the game through coordination and build variety. Since more damage is the answer to everything in this game (for now), raids will be the answer to your issue. Raids will, in theory, force players to play a variety of builds besides might stacking.

Again, ideally the full spectrum of boons should be covered by the team of 5 players, but since people mostly focus on might and fury, you end up getting way more than the game allows.

Azure.8670:

this wouldnt be an issue if enemies actually corrupted and ripped boons

There are enemies that steal boons.

Cbomb.4310:

I like might stacking but I think some things have trivialized it too much. I think PS needs nerfing. It makes it so any other warrior build isnt viewed as ‘worth it’ and every other spec that stacks might is viewed in the same light because PS warriors do it for you. It was one thing before the trait changes when a warrior sacrificed lots of dps to get it due to the loss of stats, but now its barely anything.

This assumes there is only ever one warrior in the party.

Cbomb.4310:

I also agree/disagree with the solo might stacking stuff from the new specs. For solo play its obviously great to be able to stack might really high but in a group setting you’re either playing with a weak group or you have wasted traits. So what some people are complaining about is that they’d rather have less personal buffs in exchange for more group buffs.

Everyone wants validation for being in a group vs only being optimal playing by yourself.

If everyone else is stacking might on themselves then there is no need for the warrior to run PS which solves your previous problem.

Beldin.5498:

Khisanth.2948:

Dragging out a boring fight does not in any way make it better. An example would be when they doubled the world boss HP but before they fixed the crit locations. None of the fights got any more challenging or interesting in any way.

But that is was nearly always happend when people cry for “moar challenge”.
Mobs get more hitpoints and hit harder .. so in a longer fight there are simply
more chances you mess up something.

Oh and of course in this game where actually in dungeons everything is burst
all those zerkers would maybe also suddenly get more damage when the burst
is over,boss still lives, and also there are no more blinds and aegis ready.

But yeah .. mostly all those “moar challenge” leads just to more boring fights
in the end. Just look at LS2 bosses that take often longer to kill than running
a complete dungeon path. Or the actual incarnation of Shadow Behmoth,
really hard now to not fall asleep there.

Sleep inducing Shadow Behemoth isn’t always bad. It enabled my friend to do his Shadow Behemoth daily on on both this EU and NA accounts. :P

He was mentioning how slowly it was going on his map. I saw that I had 6 minutes left to complete the pre. I assumed mine was going to be faster since there are so few people. Little did I know that both would take around 14 minutes. What the is up with SB these days anyway? The portals die very fast but then when it comes to SB it looks like everyone is hitting it with confetti.

Lets say might duration gets reduced to 1/3rd of current values. Now people want 3 warriors per party(guardian or elementalist would work too). That doesn’t look like an improvement to me.

PS isn’t all that great when the enemy actually moves around or the boss has mechanics that punishes hugging.

Agemnon.4608:

Manu.6078:

Khisanth.2948:

It would just make some fights longer but what benefit does this have on the game?

More challenging content. Less professions left outside of the meta. More diversity of builds. More easy to ballance.
25 stacks represent too much % from damage output.

The problem with longer fights is it narrows the room for error since stuff will die slower, giving bosses more chances to use more abilities while players get worn down more from cooldowns needing to be popped.

I say keep might but make legitimately more challenging content rather than gating certain abilities away or cheap mechanics.

Have constant boon removal from bosses. Would make things a lot more interesting.

Personally and not going through the numbers, I have to agree. We’ve seen a constant increase in boon and condition stacking over the course of patches and the game evolving.

The problem is not only with might though. Originally the 25 stack limit was ment for multiple characters. Now almost any class can apply 25 stacks of most boons/conditions solo etc.

The stability revamp did not help with this either. A former single boon (where boon removal was balanced around) has now multiple stacks which all draw boon removal charges.

Maybe anet balances the game around there always being near or maximum amount of might/vulnerabilty so as to have an easier time of balancing classes. This in turn means that a lot of diversity goes out the window and the stacking aspect of those effects is just for show. Heck I’d even go as far as to say, make it simpler:

- change might to a single stack, or maximum 5 (same for vulnerabilty)
- rebalance boon/condition removal accordingly
- rebalance class availability accordingly (mostly removing many applications)
- balance around certain classes bringing different boons/conditions to the table

In GW1 this worked fine, and the pvp there was a lot better compared to the current state GW2 pvp is in.

WEXXES.2378:

Agemnon.4608:

Manu.6078:

Khisanth.2948:

It would just make some fights longer but what benefit does this have on the game?

More challenging content. Less professions left outside of the meta. More diversity of builds. More easy to ballance.
25 stacks represent too much % from damage output.

The problem with longer fights is it narrows the room for error since stuff will die slower, giving bosses more chances to use more abilities while players get worn down more from cooldowns needing to be popped.

I say keep might but make legitimately more challenging content rather than gating certain abilities away or cheap mechanics.

Have constant boon removal from bosses. Would make things a lot more interesting.

Not really. Consistency leads to boring fights. There has to be variations and surprises for things to remain interesting. Constant boon removal just means people will plan to have no boons in the fight. If it is a constant effect throughout a dungeon then that is just one more preflight check and if not then there would be greater demand for people to swap builds mid-run(and more complaints about the lack of templates).

I like op ( it realy made me smile) saying ele is fine with might stacking when all it takes is knowing the rotations and in spvp D/D or D/F with hoel + battle ,ele can stack up 25 migh H24 with a basic rotation (but pvers think number of skills = skill full gameplay)

And complaining to engi witch stack 8 might stacks with 12 autos with a mele weapon (it takes some time) and people will run around in pvp.

Also rev is able to migh stack 12 mights a whole team for a fairly long duration without spending prebuff time and starting with his 50% energy and cap up to 24- 25 might with force runes on a Herald/shiro build during the fight.

And sadly necro needs those might stacks thats, why all our strong builds run spite on necro in pvp ( i wich necro wasn’t forced in a niche trait line)

If you take close attention to all classes they have fairly easy acces to might stacking , and might stacking is actualy needed in pvp for bruiser builds. (and scraper is designed to be a bruiser type so yeah he got acces to might.)

Abimes.9726:

If you take close attention to all classes they have fairly easy acces to might stacking

I’d love to see that “fairly easy access” at ranger :P

[hint hint – whatever we had in that matter was nerfed to the ground like – 1 stack of 1s might every 3s :P – oh wait if I sacrifice whole build for that I can have 15 stacks of might for 5 seconds every “all signets” cd iirc would be like minute or so… but that would work only for me and my pet giving nothing to my team….]

Lots of classes being able to get to 25 might doesn’t bother me.
A player getting 25 might without making a conscious mid-battle decision to engage in a specific might-building action bothers the holy heck out of me.

There’s just too many instances where it’s brainless and automatic, when it could actually be engaging your skillset in meaningful way.

A Novice and an Expert at a profession should have a demonstrable difference in their output when interacting with systems like the Boon system. Perfect success every single time shouldn’t just be a foregone conclusion by virtue of clicking a trait.

You should be able to be good at it.

Could always change might from a cumulatively stacking stat boost to a “your next hit/second of conditions/second of a channeled attack does [x] amount more damage” and rebalance the stack limits and durations around it. Then it doesnt matter how many stacks you can make, you’ll always need more and those that use it to maximize potential rather than wasting multiple stacks on auto attacks will win out.

New Might idea: +20% damage. Stacks in duration.

Problem solved.

If anything is unbalanced, it’s warrior banners. I love me some banners, but you know they have no equal.

If anything, give the equivalent buff to other characters so they can fill the role if needed. No warrior? Well reaper can run [disco banner equivalent]! And if you have a warrior, he’d love to swap that banner to another signet or FGJ, etc.

Widebody.5071:

Not attacking anyone, just pointing out that the warrior class suffers from a rash of folks who main them coming to the forums and advocating for their Nerf. Something that’s seldom seen for other classes.

Don’t take it personal but if the shoe fits.????

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

I don’t mean the effectiveness of might, i mean how easily might is obtained by many specs, it’s making the boon require absolutely no input at all, it’s just a ‘passive boon’ now.

That’s pretty much every boon now. Even the one’s that aren’t necessarily passive are just applied instantaneously. Investing into boons is a concept that doesn’t exist, and there are few boons that anyone cares about actually losing either since most are all just reapplied very quickly. Same often goes for conditions. The whole boon/condition system is goofed and needs to be brutally bottlenecked if classes or builds wish to have any actual functional flavor instead of just every class being “vomit out every condition ever while pressing 1 + (3-5 other buttons)” or “accidentally gain every boon ever because people are hitting you while you do your basic rotation” (both often occurring within the span of 2 seconds respectively).

Nerfing ps war won’t make the meta any broader. It will just remove the ps war and replace it with the scepter ele. Ele already has it good enough in pve.

You know what you should advocate? Giving necro a trait similar but slightly weaker than ps. That would open some options up.

thrag.9740:

You know what you should advocate? Making the game even more homogenized than it already is.

Anet level design.

thrag.9740:

Nerfing ps war won’t make the meta any broader. It will just remove the ps war and replace it with the scepter ele. Ele already has it good enough in pve.

You know what you should advocate? Giving necro a trait similar but slightly weaker than ps. That would open some options up.

If a few other classes could stack might for a group better, that wouldn’t be a bad thing. Necros are already half way there, blood is power needs to have the might tuned so you can get 100% uptime out of it. Then necros need another way to give aoe might, possibly sacrificing current might generation (hopefully replacing it with damage modifiers the class lacks). For instance, if blood magic had a trait that made siphons grant aoe might, or wells grant aoe might that would be great.

Erasmus.1624:

thrag.9740:

You know what you should advocate? Making the game even more homogenized than it already is.

Anet level design.

Anet level design is gimping a class so horrendously that they are often explicitly forbidden in LFG’s for 3 years, and never actively trying to correct the situation. I guess that’s better.

thrag.9740:

Erasmus.1624:

thrag.9740:

You know what you should advocate? Making the game even more homogenized than it already is.

Anet level design.

Anet level design is gimping a class so horrendously that they are often explicitly forbidden in LFG’s for 3 years, and never actively trying to correct the situation. I guess that’s better.

Necromancer’s shortcomings are the only instance of functional flavor in the game at the moment. Down-sides promote playstyles (which seek to circumvent them). Every other class functions relatively identically and has no need for any specialized playstyle aside from “press the button.” Necromancer is the only one without excessive amounts of instant invulnerability periods and instant damage. There is much to be desired about the over-effectiveness of pressing 1, though.

If might stacking is to be unique or planned in any way, sustained examples of high might would be best kept solely in the hands of only one or two classes while a few specific gimmick mechanics would allow for high might stack bursts with very short uptimes on the rest of the classes.

Actually, thinking about it, Tempest wasn’t a bad way to do might-stacking as a class mechanic, but even then the little rotation for it was easy-mode effortless and was mainly just part of the class-universal brainless rush back to mashing 1.

White Hunter.3416:

Phalanx Strenght need 1s internal cd. And that’s all.
Why another professions have their cd in the might stacking skills, but Warriors doesn’t?

Because the game is aimed at casuals, and most casuals play warrior. Do the math.
Ever wondered why they nerfed ride the lightning, but not Rush?

Every class plays the same? Ok let me see a warrior pop a group wide defense just at the right time to prevent a wipe. Let me see an ele manage the defiance on a boss so we can interrupt tactically. Show me an engineer who can insta res players at just the right moment to save the party.

Might stacking is planned. Good ps warriors use a specific rune, use one of 3 specific foods, and run a specific build where they constantly keep literally every weapon skill on cooldown. They tactically position themselves constantly. They keep their heal skill on cool down. They have to actually be in melee range to do their job, so they actively dodge and avoid damage by carefully observing the boss and looking for tells.

All this is planned. And it all comes at a noticeable personal dps loss. Might generation isn’t free. Even if every class in the game had their own version of ps, only 1 person in the party would be running it. The only difference necro having their own version of ps would make, is that at the start of the instance necros and warriors would coordinate to see who would run dps and who would run might. That and that necros would be more accepted in lfgs.

thrag.9740:

Every class plays the same? Ok let me see a warrior pop a group wide defense just at the right time to prevent a wipe. Let me see an ele manage the defiance on a boss so we can interrupt tactically. Show me an engineer who can insta res players at just the right moment to save the party.

Might stacking is planned. Good ps warriors use a specific rune, use one of 3 specific foods, and run a specific build where they constantly keep literally every weapon skill on cooldown. They tactically position themselves constantly. They keep their heal skill on cool down. They have to actually be in melee range to do their job, so they actively dodge and avoid damage by carefully observing the boss and looking for tells.

All this is planned. And it all comes at a noticeable personal dps loss. Might generation isn’t free. Even if every class in the game had their own version of ps, only 1 person in the party would be running it. The only difference necro having their own version of ps would make, is that at the start of the instance necros and warriors would coordinate to see who would run dps and who would run might. That and that necros would be more accepted in lfgs.

I’m sure that most of the pve necro community would take that trade-off in a heartbeat. Might generation certainly is not free, but it’s out of hand. If the cost to get maximum stacks of might is so low, why keep a stacking system at all?

Oh crap… Let’s just have one profession for all races with all the exact same skills, boons traits and weapons, same class armour, no outside buffs, food, accessories or stacks.

Then maybe, just maybe this constant squabble about balance will go away.

Widebody.5071:

Oh crap… Let’s just have one profession for all races with all the exact same skills, boons traits and weapons, same class armour, no outside buffs, food, accessories or stacks.

Then maybe, just maybe this constant squabble about balance will go away.

kitten I bet it will turn into his human looks more people like then my char does. :/

Widebody.5071:

Widebody.5071:

Oh crap… Let’s just have one profession for all races with all the exact same skills, boons traits and weapons, same class armour, no outside buffs, food, accessories or stacks.

Then maybe, just maybe this constant squabble about balance will go away.

kitten I bet it will turn into his human looks more people like then my char does. :/

You’re supposed to change accounts first.

Cyninja.2954:

I’m sure that most of the pve necro community would take that trade-off in a heartbeat. Might generation certainly is not free, but it’s out of hand. If the cost to get maximum stacks of might is so low, why keep a stacking system at all?

Where in my post did I give you the impression the cost is low? If the whole party could magically get 25 might without a warrior, bringing a warrior would be a HUGE waste. Eles and thieves both have a lot more utility and much higher dps.

A ps war on a single target maintains average 23 might according to dnt last I heard. In perfectly ideal situations. Unless the war is doing something weird like bringing elite signet and fgj, you never sustain that unless a boss is deep frozen. Go do fractal 50s with pugs, show me some videos of mai/diviner/anomaly/svanir where you even have more than 20 might for the party and I will be impressed. The only time pugs hit the cap is against trash mobs, and again, who cares about trash mobs?

Widebody.5071:

Oh crap… Let’s just have one profession for all races with all the exact same skills, boons traits and weapons, same class armour, no outside buffs, food, accessories or stacks.

Then maybe, just maybe this constant squabble about balance will go away.

It’s already kind of like that, though. Most things are inconsequential in the face of instant teleports and long invulnerability periods during which players can take action or devote to healing themselves. Every class plays like that already. Everyone takes the invulnerability/blocking/evasion, stealth, teleports, and stability options. It’s all just identical “take 0 damage”/“ignore the actions of other players” in the end.

thrag.9740:

Every class plays the same? Ok let me see a warrior pop a group wide defense just at the right time to prevent a wipe. Let me see an ele manage the defiance on a boss so we can interrupt tactically. Show me an engineer who can insta res players at just the right moment to save the party.

While you have a point there, it’s a little strange that we gravitate toward 3 specific, individual skill buttons despite the fact that every player has anywhere between 16-35 unique skills to activate. Seems a little off-kilter if we’re trying to define the actions and roles of professions on the whole—a lot of homogenized bloat floating around in there.

thrag.9740:

Might stacking is planned.

Technically, yes, but it’s mostly planned before a fight ever begins. It’s not hard; it’s either rehearsed and executed before an engagement or it’s effectively entirely passive while a fight runs its course.

thrag.9740:

Good ps warriors use a specific rune, use one of 3 specific foods,

Yes, because consumables and runes are so unique to Warriors and maintaining a permanent/30-minute-long passive gear bonus is incredibly difficult in the heat of the 2-5 minute-long battle.

thrag.9740:

and run a specific build where they constantly keep literally every weapon skill on cooldown.

Oh, they have a rotation! That’s unique as well! I can’t imagine a single other class that doesn’t press what is effectively 15 (often fast-activating) buttons before going back to pressing 1!

thrag.9740:

They tactically position themselves constantly. They keep their heal skill on cool down. They have to actually be in melee range to do their job, so they actively dodge and avoid damage by carefully observing the boss and looking for tells.

They attack from melee range and press the dodge button! Truly unique to the class.

thrag.9740:

All this is planned. And it all comes at a noticeable personal dps loss. Might generation isn’t free.

That wasn’t the point. The point was how might generation is basically effortless in practice—which it is. That said, you’re right, it technically isn’t free, but the warrior still does an enormous amount of damage for what would otherwise be considered a “support” role in any other game. Moreover, since the warrior plays with 4 other allies at all times, it doesn’t matter in the end. If the party had to split up at any given point during a dungeon run, then running a build like PS might actually pose some level of risk or sacrifice, however, that doesn’t happen given how procedural and hallway-like every dungeon/fractal is.

thrag.9740:

The only difference necro having their own version of ps would make, is that at the start of the instance necros and warriors would coordinate to see who would run dps and who would run might. That and that necros would be more accepted in lfgs.

This is the only thing that you have said so far that isn’t utterly contrived. MMORPGs are numbers games. They aren’t necessarily driven by individual, active player skill because they don’t feature the mechanic base to foster that. Players plan what is going to happen before anything happens, enter an instance, press all of their buttons and press whatever back-up/panic buttons that they brought along to make sure everything goes exactly according to the sterile, excel-document plan.

Erasmus.1624:

While you have a point there, it’s a little strange that we gravitate toward 3 specific, individual skill buttons despite the fact that every player has anywhere between 16-35 unique skills to activate. Seems a little off-kilter if we’re trying to define the actions and roles of professions on the whole—a lot of homogenized bloat floating around in there.

I don’t know if you and I just play at totally different levels, but if your only pressing 3 buttons your playing very poorly on a war/ele. Those are my mains so they are all I can speak for.

Erasmus.1624:

Technically, yes, but it’s mostly planned before a fight ever begins. It’s not hard; it’s either rehearsed and executed before an engagement or it’s effectively entirely passive while a fight runs its course.

Are you basing that off of experiences in fractals or dungeons or open world pve? My experience is that might generation isn’t so easy in higher level fractals unless a boss is deep freezed.

Erasmus.1624:

Yes, because consumables and runes are so unique to Warriors and maintaining a permanent/30-minute-long passive gear bonus is incredibly difficult in the heat of the 2-5 minute-long battle.

You misunderstand my point. The runes are expensive, the food is expensive. You said that the cost is low. I am pointing out that beginner players can’t come close to affording to be a good ps war. Strength runes are a dps loss to scholar and cost more. Fried dumplings are a personal dps loss compared to soup.

Erasmus.1624:

Oh, they have a rotation! That’s unique as well! I can’t imagine a single other class that doesn’t press what is effectively 15 (often fast-activating) buttons before going back to pressing 1!

You stated players only use 3 buttons, but when I point out that is not the case you make fun of me because every class presses 15 buttons? Pick one. You claim all this might generation is passive, but you admit that we are constantly pressing buttons.

Erasmus.1624:

They attack from melee range and press the dodge button! Truly unique to the class.

It is to an extent. I’ve never seen a staff ele stick within 130 on diviner. Necro can do just as much dps from 1200 range and stack quite a bit of personal might. This is an example of what the warrior gives up for its might generation. This is an example of how classes play differently.

Erasmus.1624:

but the warrior still does an enormous amount of damage for what would otherwise be considered a “support” role in any other game.

That simply isn’t true. Warrior dps is medium at best. The ‘enormous’ damage comes from thieves and eles. Engineer too, but I think its very difficuly to actually pull that one off. The point is, ps warrior isn’t a high dps role.

Erasmus.1624:

Moreover, since the warrior plays with 4 other allies at all times, it doesn’t matter in the end. If the party had to split up at any given point during a dungeon run, then running a build like PS might actually pose some level of risk or sacrifice, however, that doesn’t happen given how procedural and hallway-like every dungeon/fractal is.

I don’t understand. It sounds like your angry that the optimal build is better than suboptimal builds? Of course ps is better for the group. Why would we run a build that wasn’t better for the group? That doesn’t change the fact that warrior sacrificies their own dps to support the group. Again, we also completely give up our healing skill, so there is your risk. And as I said earlier a ps warrior needs to dodge more actively. Yes they have armor and higher hp, but i’d estimate it only takes 3 hits from a boss to down you.

Erasmus.1624:

This is the only thing that you have said so far that isn’t utterly contrived. MMORPGs are numbers games. They aren’t necessarily driven by individual, active player skill because they don’t feature the mechanic base to foster that. Players plan what is going to happen before anything happens, enter an instance, press all of their buttons and press whatever back-up/panic buttons that they brought along to make sure everything goes exactly according to the sterile, excel-document plan.

[/quote]
I don’t understand your complaint against necro getting their own version of ps. How does whether or not necro’s are able to support their party offensively in a manner competitive with warrior, change whether you consider mmorpgs fun?

Necro might is pretty much necessary though, considering the class has basically no damage modifiers. It shouldn’t be shareable, but if anything I’d much rather have damage modifiers than might just because might cab be removed and stolen; my thief’s 4x-plus damage modifier cannot be.

Might isn’t so much an issue as much as the mob encounters are. It’s a bit different on celestial ele, but that build is just getting sheer power from getting a variety of extremely powerful boons and inherently-high numbers and scaling potential per cooldown paired with impressive mobility and self-sustain.