Guild Wars 2

I was on 3/4 completion.

The last obstacle was, of the choices that were within my playstyle, simply getting 25 of those periscopes. I am so very grateful that 1) the periscopes were made newbie friendly in the starter zones and 2) there seemed to be an apparent reduction from the previous need to get 125 (or 150?) of them. So, I finished getting my 25 periscopes today and handed the rest of them in.

..

Then I noticed I didn’t get my monthly reward. So, I checked my Monthly Tab, and saw that the count went from 25 to 50.

That is the literal translation of Bait and Switch.

If the monthly count to get that was 50, then why not post that in the first place.

Today, I was so excited thinking, “Yay, its near the end of the month and I did X of this and X of that, now all I need is 3 more periscopes.”. So, I did what the Monthly said. I did. And then it switched the count.

I’m not happy with this.

I did the other monthlies that fit within my playstyle. People in chat, when I brought this up, said I should WvW to make up for the rest. No. And no, to doing sPvP, or Fractals, or Jumping Puzzles. There are options there for various playstyles, and I did it, for my playstyle, and I thought I was done. Yay for me?

TLDR: Stop with tiering goals. If there is a number to achieve, post it. Setting false goals and annoying your customers doesn’t make for good business.

This is so not bait and switch. Monthly achievements have been tiered since day 1. Daily achievements used to be tiered too, but they took that out, probably to lower the number of achievement and experience points each person gets.

Every month, you have monthlies that have tiers just like other achievement title tracks. In fact, this month, is one of the easiest monthlies ever. Many people got them on like day 4 of the month.

I think probably, if you can’t find a 4th monthly to fit in with your playstyle, you should either bite the bullet and do it (understanding it’s tiered) or just skip it.

Again, some people LIKE the extra experience and achievement points they get from tiering. In fact, when they took tiering away from the daily, there were complaint threads on the forums.

Yeah, the tiering is kind of deceiving, but I learned to check how many tiers there are after being fooled a couple of times. I do appreciate the extra experience, but I don’t actually like it either. I would at least like to be able to view the absolute total rather than just seeing the amount to finish the current tier.

Hovering your cursor over the desired achievement on the tracker on the side of the screen will display the total amount required.

It really should have required only 50 though.

That I did not know. Thank you

Vayne, the point of the post was to remove tiering of Monthlies.

If they they removed Daily tiering, they can remove Monthly tiering.

Yes, my point on B & S was a dramatization. I concede and apologize.

However, your 3rd paragraph is dismissive. I chose the 4 options that were within my playstyle. I’m not being an excessive complainer here. I did what was required.

ANET changed the goals once I achieved what they had set out. This is all I am saying.

There is no bullet biting. There is no “Doing something else”. I did what the Monthly list required. Then it was changed once I met that requirement.

Do note that I am a casual player and finished the monthly very much ahead of time, without doing those Audio Logs. In comparison, most of the other options are easily doable (I chose JPs even though I don’t really enjoy them, the events-just100!-which I do enjoy, and two other things I already forgot about that were also easily done. :P) In fact, I was expecting having to do 5 of the items, but forgot it’s “only” 4. Even by now (4/24) you would have time if you just started to do this monthly-no kidding anyone.

If it’s any consolation, monthlies are easier than ever now, since a few months back-they used to be very rigid to the point I never really worked for them (50 WvW kills is too many for those that don’t care about that aspect of the game-did it only once during October or November, and never did it again, thinking it was too much work for what it meant to me). Back then, I didn’t do them and it was fine by me-you just gotta learn to be fine with it if you don’t want to work towards them (you lose nothing, and only win a little, so no worries if that’s the case.)

(Note that this is no “I am better than you!” post, but rather “if I can do it, so can you, as I didn’t work that hard!” So I am trying to encourage you, not putting you nor your preferred playstyle down.)

(I think the Audio Logs required are 250, though I forgot-it made me do the JPs instead. :P)

Wow, someone needs a nap.

Illysharia.7286:

Vayne, the point of the post was to remove tiering of Monthlies.

If they they removed Daily tiering, they can remove Monthly tiering.

Yes, my point on B & S was a dramatization. I concede and apologize.

However, your 3rd paragraph is dismissive. I chose the 4 options that were within my playstyle. I’m not being an excessive complainer here. I did what was required.

ANET changed the goals once I achieved what they had set out. This is all I am saying.

There is no bullet biting. There is no “Doing something else”. I did what the Monthly list required. Then it was changed once I met that requirement.

But when they removed the daily tiering, people DID complain. That’s my point. It’s not like everyone would be in favor of less experience/achievement points.

I personally like the tiering, because if you cant do the whole thing, at least you get some reward. Probably the reason they didn’t remove it from the monthly, but they did from the daily. The monthlies have higher requirements and made more sense to have them tiered.

If I don’t do all the periscope, but I only do 50, I still get some XP and some achievement points. If you tier it, I get nothing (because I’m not going to farm periscopes).

Two sides to story, that’s all I"m saying.

It’s not right or wrong to want to remove tiering. It’s an opinion that won’t be shared by the entire player base. The question is how many people would rather have tiering.

Star Ace.5207:

Do note that I am a casual player and finished the monthly very much ahead of time, without doing those Audio Logs. In comparison, most of the other options are easily doable (I chose JPs even though I don’t really enjoy them, the events-just100!-which I do enjoy, and two other things I already forgot about that were also easily done. :P) In fact, I was expecting having to do 5 of the items, but forgot it’s “only” 4. Even by now (4/24) you would have time if you just started to do this monthly-no kidding anyone.

If it’s any consolation, monthlies are easier than ever now, since a few months back-they used to be very rigid to the point I never really worked for them (50 WvW kills is too many for those that don’t care about that aspect of the game-did it only once during October or November, and never did it again, thinking it was too much work for what it meant to me). Back then, I didn’t do them and it was fine by me-you just gotta learn to be fine with it if you don’t want to work towards them (you lose nothing, and only win a little, so no worries if that’s the case.)

(Note that this is no “I am better than you!” post, but rather “if I can do it, so can you, as I didn’t work that hard!” So I am trying to encourage you, not putting you nor your preferred playstyle down.)

(I think the Audio Logs required are 250, though I forgot-it made me do the JPs instead. :P)

I appreciate the time you took to write that. I am also there with you!

However, your comments aren’t addressing what I am saying: my Monthly achievement goals were reset (tiered) once I thought I had completed them.

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

Vayne, the point of the post was to remove tiering of Monthlies.

If they they removed Daily tiering, they can remove Monthly tiering.

Yes, my point on B & S was a dramatization. I concede and apologize.

However, your 3rd paragraph is dismissive. I chose the 4 options that were within my playstyle. I’m not being an excessive complainer here. I did what was required.

ANET changed the goals once I achieved what they had set out. This is all I am saying.

There is no bullet biting. There is no “Doing something else”. I did what the Monthly list required. Then it was changed once I met that requirement.

But when they removed the daily tiering, people DID complain. That’s my point. It’s not like everyone would be in favor of less experience/achievement points.

I personally like the tiering, because if you cant do the whole thing, at least you get some reward. Probably the reason they didn’t remove it from the monthly, but they did from the daily. The monthlies have higher requirements and made more sense to have them tiered.

If I don’t do all the periscope, but I only do 50, I still get some XP and some achievement points. If you tier it, I get nothing (because I’m not going to farm periscopes).

Two sides to story, that’s all I"m saying.

It’s not right or wrong to want to remove tiering. It’s an opinion that won’t be shared by the entire player base. The question is how many people would rather have tiering.

See, if they removed tiering before, they did it for a reason. Why? False expectations. People work towards a goal. Completion! Yay! Oh, wait..I have to do X amount more.

If ANET changed their policy for that, they can change it elsewhere.

Illysharia.7286:

Vayne.8563:

Illysharia.7286:

Vayne, the point of the post was to remove tiering of Monthlies.

If they they removed Daily tiering, they can remove Monthly tiering.

Yes, my point on B & S was a dramatization. I concede and apologize.

However, your 3rd paragraph is dismissive. I chose the 4 options that were within my playstyle. I’m not being an excessive complainer here. I did what was required.

ANET changed the goals once I achieved what they had set out. This is all I am saying.

There is no bullet biting. There is no “Doing something else”. I did what the Monthly list required. Then it was changed once I met that requirement.

But when they removed the daily tiering, people DID complain. That’s my point. It’s not like everyone would be in favor of less experience/achievement points.

I personally like the tiering, because if you cant do the whole thing, at least you get some reward. Probably the reason they didn’t remove it from the monthly, but they did from the daily. The monthlies have higher requirements and made more sense to have them tiered.

If I don’t do all the periscope, but I only do 50, I still get some XP and some achievement points. If you tier it, I get nothing (because I’m not going to farm periscopes).

Two sides to story, that’s all I"m saying.

It’s not right or wrong to want to remove tiering. It’s an opinion that won’t be shared by the entire player base. The question is how many people would rather have tiering.

See, if they removed tiering before, they did it for a reason. Why? False expectations. People work towards a goal. Completion! Yay! Oh, wait..I have to do X amount more.

If ANET changed their policy for that, they can change it elsewhere.

I’m not sure they changed it for that reason though. That’s an assumption on your part. It’s just as likely they did it to nerf the experience points/achievement point gain. More likely even.

Remember they only recently came out with an achievement point leaderboard. So the daily achievements used to give you ridiculous numbers of achievement points, as compared to now. A slight mitigation of the point total. Monthlies don’t really suffer the same problem, since you can only do them once a month.

Arguably, if they changed them BECAUSE they felt they were misleading, they would have changed both. Since they only changed one, being misleading may not be the reason they were changed.

Point heard.

However, reading various threads, you can hear ANET’s voice of reply regarding unintentional omissions of change. For instance, the Megadestroyer (I wish I knew how to hyperlink here but the forum isn’t that user friendly*) minor thread. Things get missed.

*please add a formatting bar

It can be a little confusing. If you check mark it so it appears on your UI, then mouse over it, it will tell you there the total you need, in this case 150. There are 10 per map and 5 maps so you can get a max of 50 per day. It’s still doable even at this late date. Dulfy has a great guide. Just get a character with a speed boost and it’s not so bad.
http://dulfy.net/2013/03/26/gw2-sonic-periscope-audio-log-guide/

Listen OP, I feel your pain. I too originally thought SPs would be easy until I notice if I hover over the on screen tracking (Vs what’s on the achievement screen) of that and noticed it’s 150.

Fortunately I found dulfy’s periscope maps (linked above) and in four or five days polished off the 80 or 90 I needed by starting at the Black Citadel, do most of them in the Plains of Ashford, then go to the Diessa Plateau to get most of those and then go to Wayfayer Foothills and work my way down to the contact that will take them (contact in Diessa Plateau as well). Yes it takes an hour or so a day to round up roughly 20 and but you can end up doing a major chunk of your dailies.

Of course if you are one of those players who only do speedruns or fractals all the time, it will seem to be a “grind”.

I just wanted to address something that you keep using as a point of reference for your argument. The completing of a visible achievement objective and then moving on to the next tier (until you reach the final one) is an established mechanic since release that has been used for numerous other achievements as someone said earlier. You mentioned that as a problem for you twice now. What you see as false step toward success others might see as an identifiable marker toward completion. I mean, you have to think about some of the other achievements where you literally have to kill 1000 of some creature species. It’s very likely that anet put in those tiers (with a pop up indication of completion) to remind you that you are working toward something, otherwise a) you’d likely forget about it b) it would just appear too daunting to see a list that says 26 out of 1000 ettins slayed.

I’m guessing as others have that anet carried that logic over to the monthly achievements because the intent is that these are things to be achieved over an extended period of time. You can certainly argue that some monthly achievements are so easy that tiers aren’t necessary or that all monthly achievements shouldn’t need tiers. I would just like to remind you that anet intended to give players long terms goals and if they are going to stick with that, they have to make choices about how people are going to interpret that.

Was it really that hard this month?
I could finish it 10 days into April, without any sweat. Most from it by simply playing the game. Doing the “usual” PvE stuff i was doing anyway.

OP, which monthlies did you do anyway?

On the topic: The monthlies and dailies are also a way to get you a bit out of your comfort zone. Maybe finding new things that you might like on the way.

http://dulfy.net/2012/09/16/gw2-jumping-puzzles-guides-guild-wars-2/

Do the ones listed as “easy” and you can have your monthly today.

My recommendation:
- the 3 in lion’s arch (relatively easy)
- tribulation scaffolding and cavern (2 in 1)
- under new management (super easy)
- dark reverie (easy once you get it)
- king jalis refugee (super easy)
- vizier’s tower
- buried archives (extremely easy)
- antre of adjournment (relatively easy)
- spelunker’s delve (super easy)

Good luck

@ OP I agree with you.
I have been caught by tiering in the past and I really wish it would be removed,while not bait and switch it is very demoralising.
I am currently stuck on exactly those audio logs.

But Meh I have only gotten one monthly ever so missing one really won’t kill me.
I was however planning on making my ranger a Mystic Claymore and needed the extra coins.

Healix.5819:

Hovering your cursor over the desired achievement on the tracker on the side of the screen will display the total amount required.

It really should have required only 50 though.

You can always check the total by clicking the check box and hovering over the achievement completion tracker in the upper right corner as well.

marnick.4305:

http://dulfy.net/2012/09/16/gw2-jumping-puzzles-guides-guild-wars-2/

Do the ones listed as “easy” and you can have your monthly today.

My recommendation:
- the 3 in lion’s arch (relatively easy)
- tribulation scaffolding and cavern (2 in 1)
- under new management (super easy)
- dark reverie (easy once you get it)
- king jalis refugee (super easy)
- vizier’s tower
- buried archives (extremely easy)
- antre of adjournment (relatively easy)
- spelunker’s delve (super easy)

Good luck

An update:

I decided to take a look at the Jumping Puzzles as an avenue to finish my Monthly. My previous exposure to JP’s left me frustrated, so I didn’t want to go there at all initially. Following your link, I found some that weren’t too bad at all. In fact, I liked the exploration aspect of it quite a bit! I felt like I was in a secret area (which I suppose I was) and I had it all to myself.

So, I am going to pursue those to finish off my Monthly. Because someone asked, the ones I had already completed were: Event Participation, Completionist, and Veteran Slayer. All of those I did just as a matter of playing, and doing regular dailies.

I do still wish they would give a full count on what is needed to get the Monthly items. Yes, I understand the psychological impact of babysteps. That is, doing incremental small goals so it doesn’t seem like such a large deal. Someone else mentioned that mousing over will show if there is tiering. It does show, say, 1 of 4 tiers, but it does not list a final goal.

Regardless, I am not going to belabor my annoyance of how they set up their Monthly goals. There is much to be said about knowing up front what you are working towards.

You can see the total achievement needed by tracking it and mousing over.

It shows only 3909/4500 (tier 3 of 4) on the main panel, but 3909/6000 (the total) on the right side of the screen.

You do have to look closely at the total achievements to see what is needed and also divide by days in the month. The periscopes were actually only 5 per day and very doable. They only appeared to be difficult if you tried to get all 150 over a short period of time. End of the month is crunch time but with 50 scopes available it is still doable….

Aerinndis.2730:

You do have to look closely at the total achievements to see what is needed and also divide by days in the month. The periscopes were actually only 5 per day and very doable. They only appeared to be difficult if you tried to get all 150 over a short period of time. End of the month is crunch time but with 50 scopes available it is still doable….

And I agree with you! However, my post was not about easy/hard.

Having a straightforward goal allows you to plan. Having hidden, piecemeal goals is kind of deceptive, or, at the least, treats you like someone who can’t handle the bigger picture. I’m not a child, I don’t need to have someone hold my hand and walk me up to the number 3, clap excitedly, then walk me to 6, then 9, then 12.