Guild Wars 2

I guess it’s merely a poor marketing choice of words. Had the words been “huge amounts of free content”, there probably wouldn’t be an issue. Whatever they were working on was more or less set in stone, it’s the marketing of it that had to change to avoid misconceptions (like one we have now).

The second quote is over two months old, the press release came out today, the original marketing of “an expansion worth of content” came out in January. They must pretty poor communication, in that case.

Don’t excuse this behavior. Responsible, accurate marketing is important in running a business and key to empowering your fellow consumers. Especially in a price drop press release designed to draw in people who might be considering the game.

Do not let ArenaNet misrepresent themselves. Do not excuse it.

/popcorn

I agree with the OP, by the way — deceptive marketing hype is… deceptive. I’m just waiting for the usual troupe of GW2 apologists to weigh in here. This thread will be fun while it lasts.

Didn’t you already make this thread, who cares, just play and have fun, or don’t.

So…. the issue here is poor marketing?

Well I won’t be disagreeing here. It was stupid to use the quote, particularly when the quote has already been ripped to shreds on the forums.

Wildstar… here I come!

It’s Marketing. I work with the Marketing department in our company and they need to hype things up to generate sales. Most times they are pretty clueless on other aspects.

Don’t want to agree or disagree as there is many different ways this can go.

If we are considering that Guild Wars 2 is a AAA MMORPG (like they said it is supposed to be), then no. They have not released an “expansion worth of content”. When you think of a AAA MMORPG, you think of Warcraft, or Eve, or even Rift. The big games that overwhelm you with content in an expansion. The few content updates we have received in Guild Wars 2 (and no, I am not counting holidays as those are standard in any MMORPG and do not count towards expansion content), are not equal to an expansion.

But if you consider Guild Wars 2 to be your typical F2P MMORPG, then yes this content is sufficient to call an expansion worth of content. F2P MMORPGs have small expansions which don’t have a ton of content. A dungeon here, a few new quests, some bug fixes and new features, and some new cash shop items. Nothing major or game changing. The few content updates we have received from Guild Wars 2 is similar to that of a basic F2P MMORPG.

But even then, it is all temporary content any ways. None of this new content that we have received is even here anymore. Except for of course the new Southsun content, but even that won’t be permanent. Only pieces of it will remain. The whole thing won’t be here. So we’ve had a bunch of temporary updates with tiny bits that still stick around. Personally, I would barely call that a patch worth of content compared to other MMORPGs since it isn’t even here to stay.

But to each their own. Everyone has their own opinion on what is an expansion worth of content, and mine is no, it is not. Temporary content is no where hear an expansion worth of content, much less a patch worth of content compared to a AAA MMORPG (which is what Guild Wars 2 is “supposedly” supposed to be).

Hey, don’t blame ANet. Blame Bioware. They set the bar pretty bloody low with their expansion for SWTOR.

Spiral Architect.6540:

/popcorn

I agree with the OP, by the way — deceptive marketing hype is… deceptive. I’m just waiting for the usual troupe of GW2 apologists to weigh in here. This thread will be fun while it lasts.

^ So this.

Now if they truly believe they have released more than an expansions worth of content and most of the content post launch seemingly to be “temporary” content its sad. It makes me fear for the future of the game and especially if they ever release an expansion and what it’ll contain in terms of content.

man…i always find it funny when people try to tell a company how to run their company

when what they did in the first place, got you to buy the game

i guess their marketing worked huh?

i don’t quite understand why they used that phrase after what colin said….but in the end your a gamer, play the game and quit worrying about it…that’s what Arenanet gets paid to do

if you want to help run arenanet…go get your degree in marketing and apply for a job

I dont see the problem people have with temporary content, i think it is quite genious to be honest(especially when they are adding content that wont go away aswell)

Gw2 has been updating faster than any MMO i have played(this is also baffling to me, a huge patch every month yet people find reasons to cry) and the content is here for a few weeks, making the game feel ALIVE.
The world changes month each month, something new happens that wont last forever, which creates a living, breathing world… everything isnt frozen in place.. its like a story unfolds in a book/comic/tv series.
When a bad guy shows up in a story and is killed, this doesnt happen till the end of time over and over again, which is the exact same effect temporary content creates, it is realistic. While i ofcourse want also content that will stick around and Anet has said they will ofcourse do/keep doing that. Also i would like to see hard content that only the most skilled people can pull off and im sure at some point we will see this aswell, i just wish people were patient enough(fotm is very hard on higher tiers already aswell)

<3 Guild wars 2.

(also im kinda laughing here, a 2months ago people were praising how they indeed HAVE added a expansions worth of content, and now that even more content has been added this happens)

They put out a $10 DLC worth of content with the fractals patch last November. If that’s the standard for ‘an expansion’s worth of content’, then I guess they’re there, otherwise they need to stop tripping balls over there.

How lame, where do I ask for my subscription money back?

Maz.8604:

So today, I saw this

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released more than an expansion’s worth of content, regularly hosted special events like Halloween, Lost Shores and Wintersday, introduced players to the retro-goodness of the Super Adventure Box, and engaged players with the Living World philosophy, all the while continually updating and tweaking the game experience. There are record numbers of people playing Guild Wars 2 and the recent WvW and PvP updates are just the first drops in a shower of new updates.

Emphasis mine.

Which brings to mind a certain eight year running MMO that just released an expansion around the time GW2 came out, which had several new zones, a new class, a new race, dungeons, raid content, etc, etc. It seems far meatier in simple terms of content and overall development effort than what what GW2 has released, and not only that, but substantively and permanently added to the game world itself.

\

And at the same time effectively destroyed all previously existing content. That other MMO which has been running for eight years, effectively only has 2 or 3 zones, and a handful of raid dungeons. In comparison, the entire GW2 world is valid and useful content, including 9 dungeons.

Spiral Architect.6540:

/popcorn

I agree with the OP, by the way — deceptive marketing hype is… deceptive. I’m just waiting for the usual troupe of GW2 apologists to weigh in here. This thread will be fun while it lasts.

I’m waiting for the haters with the usual "they lied’ tropes. Fun while it lasts. Popcorn in the microwave. Thus far I haven’t been disappointed.

It all depends on what the meaning of “is” is. If expansions have to destroy all content and invalidate my character, sure a.net did it wrong. Can’t hear me complaining about still having a valid character.

Colin has already stated that the mentioned statement was incorrect and apologised. Let’s not beat a dead horse.

Perhaps ANet need to make a new rule that whenever Colin says something that “over hypes” the content that will be (or has been) released, he has to buy coffee and doughnuts for the forum moderators. It just seems to me that he gets a bit too enthusiastic about the work the team is doing and lets that enthusiasm turn into hyperbole.

Personally, I’m happy with the amount of content (and systems) that has been introduced since the game launched. I also realise that there are still improvements that can be made to the game in a number of different areas, but I’m confident that the team at ANet are actively working on improving the game. (Of course, that doesn’t mean they will always get it right, or that we the players will agree with their decisions).

Jordo.5913:

i guess their marketing worked huh?

Why, yes, yes, it did. If you consider all three Guild Wars campaigns and Eye of the North as ‘marketing’ for Guild Wars 2.

captaincrash.6528:

Colin has already stated that the mentioned statement was incorrect and apologised. Let’s not beat a dead horse.

And again, the exact same phrase showed up in a press release yesterday, 2 months after Colin said that. It is a misrepresentation designed to go along with a price drop announcement to con other people into buying their tripe.

Do not excuse it, it is willful misleading.

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released more than an expansion’s worth of content, regularly hosted special events like Halloween, Lost Shores and Wintersday, introduced players to the retro-goodness of the Super Adventure Box, and engaged players with the Living World philosophy, all the while continually updating and tweaking the game experience. There are record numbers of people playing Guild Wars 2 and the recent WvW and PvP updates are just the first drops in a shower of new updates.

Record high, or record low? Oh that’s right. This press release is about a price drop.

Well, picking this exact infamous phrase was a really bad choice by the marketing department, thats a given. But really, do we need to care about what the marketing department says? I mean they will always say their product is the best thing since sliced bread, in one way or another, and what they say doesn’t really have any impact on the actual product. I tend to think of marketing departments as some kind of outsourced professional liars no one should really pay attention to, so I’m not particularly inclined to take their words literally.

To put things into perspective: I was as kitten as anyone when they lied about the original “expansion’s worth of content” that was supposed to be somewhere in the last updates. That was clearly wrong, and it was rightfully met with torches & pitchforks on the forum, but that horse is long dead by now.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

But if you consider Guild Wars 2 to be your typical F2P MMORPG, then yes this content is sufficient to call an expansion worth of content. F2P MMORPGs have small expansions which don’t have a ton of content.

That is not what they were pushing when they first launched.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Our goal is to make it so you get more from Gw2 for free than you get from a game you pay a subscription for.

As to the usual troupe of defenders, I’m trying to figure out when marketing became outright false representation with baselsss claims, versus merely hyping people over the service you were actually providing them.

I will also not that in the launch of the eight year MMO, by this point after their launch they had released their second 40-man PvE experience as well as the revamps to two of their classes’ trait systems in a single major update. Whether that’s your cup of tea is not the point, the substantial development effort shown is. This is following the release of two dungeons, their first swing at a LFG system (with no successful model to follow in an MMO), first swing at PvP maps and rewards… That is all released post-launch.

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

I didn’t realize that EotN, small as it was for a GW expansion, actually rivals the entirety of GW2…but now that you mention it…

Tachenon.5270:

Jordo.5913:

i guess their marketing worked huh?

Why, yes, yes, it did. If you consider all three Guild Wars campaigns and Eye of the North as ‘marketing’ for Guild Wars 2.

I don’t think GW1 players make up as much of the playerbase as you think.

Chuo.4238:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

I didn’t realize that EotN, small as it was for a GW expansion, actually rivals the entirety of GW2…but now that you mention it…

Again you’re comparing apples and oranges. The EotN expansion was made at a time where the team was well known with the GW1 tools, and a lot of it was copy paste. The dungeons were all copies of each other, while 3/4 “new” areas didn’t have a new theme. However that was 4 years into the game, hardly comparable to GW2.

One day, GW2 will be so matured that content can be pumped out at that pace too. That day is not yet here. I don’t think it’s even remotely fair to expect that.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tachenon.5270:

Jordo.5913:

i guess their marketing worked huh?

Why, yes, yes, it did. If you consider all three Guild Wars campaigns and Eye of the North as ‘marketing’ for Guild Wars 2.

I don’t think GW1 players make up as much of the playerbase as you think.

There are an awful lot of them back in Kamadan…in general, I don’t think the GW1 crowd like GW2 much. Complete change of philosophy away from the reasons why those who like GW1 stayed with it so long.

I can tell you, I got bored with my build in GW2 very, very quickly. I miss all those solo and teambuild possibilites…no other game has anything like that. Tons of fun.

marnick.4305:

Again you’re comparing apples and oranges. The EotN expansion was made at a time where the team was well known with the GW1 tools, and a lot of it was copy paste. The dungeons were all copies of each other, while 3/4 “new” areas didn’t have a new theme. However that was 4 years into the game, hardly comparable to GW2.

One day, GW2 will be so matured that content can be pumped out at that pace too. That day is not yet here. I don’t think it’s even remotely fair to expect that.

GW2’s engine is nothing more than an advanced version of the GW1 engine, and they have people who’ve been developing in it for five years.

Also, it is entirely fair to expect it when that’s what they’re hyping in their press releases.

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

Nah. GW1 was not even close to a perfect game. Nobody’s made a perfect game yet.

That said, there are things about GW1 that are different from any other game out there, and those things, I think, are what the community really liked about it.

Now I happen to think that, with GW2, ArenaNet has changed their target audience, no doubt aiming for something bigger than the GW community. Fair enough, but with that about-face, you shouldn’t be surprised to see quite a few very upset and disappointed GW1 players.

So nobody’s saying GW is the perfect game. What I think the old GW community is saying is that GW2 is not an improved version of GW. It actually got rid of much of what GW players liked so much about GW. So many people expected GW2 to be like GW, but better. Instead we got something that’s not like GW at all, and fairly debatable whether or not it’s a better (or more fun) game.

What does this add up to? A bunch of people who spent 8 years as ArenaNet fans, and the last almost 6 years looking forward to a wonderful improvement in the same spirit as Guild Wars. As we can see, that amounts to a large number of people who are disappointed that their years of excitement and anticipation were mostly not worth it.

Chuo I agree with you and also understand that for some people wonderful improvements in GW2 arent what was expected because what I have seen after reading many GW1 threads and posts is that they really just wanted the old GW1 with a new dress on. They were happy living in their GW1 World with no website only the Wiki. They were happy standing around for major hours each day trying to sell items in populated areas because there is no broker. So yeah I understand the GW1 playerbase not liking the new and bright GW2.

I have played both games and for my playstyle GW2 with its flaws is better than GW1 because I just dont have the patience to take days to sell items. I log into a game to play not to merchant stuff and be bored stupid. I dont stand around in town talking, dancing and chatting I would go stir crazy.

The rest of the world the gaming community has advanced and expects certain features in their games and Arena needed to try to appeal to that larger player base than they had at GW1 because a HUGE amount of those GW1 players were burnt out and quit etc.

I still play GW1 because Im still working through completing the game but I will say where its easy for me to log into GW2 its hard to log into GW1 with the tired outdated colours and characters that are so ugly they make my eyes bleed

Ensign.2189:

They put out a $10 DLC worth of content with the fractals patch last November. If that’s the standard for ‘an expansion’s worth of content’, then I guess they’re there, otherwise they need to stop tripping balls over there.

I personally don’t see a $10 DLC as being a real expansion (I would expect something closer to GW:EN or Mists of Pandaria) and so I would go with the latter, Anet needs to stop tripping balls!

OP while I do agree it is not an expansion’s worth of content, all the content was free (and for free content, it was quite a hefty amount). Expansions in other MMO’s are boxed expansions that you pay for. If Anets past with REAL expansions is any indication, don’t worry, it’ll be a pretty big expansion with all the stuff you mentioned. (new zones, dungeons, classes, races, etc. etc.)

New Character Yo.6487:

OP while I do agree it is not an expansion’s worth of content, all the content was free (and for free content, it was quite a hefty amount).

The point is the press release they are using alongside their price drop to get a fresh batch of players. You agree with my statement about the content, the other question is do you think they should be misrepresenting themselves to sell this game to new people? Does that breed trust in you?

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

I’m not talking about updates. I’m talking about this alleged expansion’s worth of content. Anyone who would claim GW2 has received an expansion’s worth of content is doing something besides paying attention.

I’d rather have Arena Net stop making this boring living story and start making expansion which I would gladly pay for if they added new skills and better PvP modes.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tachenon.5270:

Jordo.5913:

i guess their marketing worked huh?

Why, yes, yes, it did. If you consider all three Guild Wars campaigns and Eye of the North as ‘marketing’ for Guild Wars 2.

I don’t think GW1 players make up as much of the playerbase as you think.

I don’t think GW2 would even be here if not for us GW1 players.

Maz.8604:

New Character Yo.6487:

OP while I do agree it is not an expansion’s worth of content, all the content was free (and for free content, it was quite a hefty amount).

The point is the press release they are using alongside their price drop to get a fresh batch of players. You agree with my statement about the content, the other question is do you think they should be misrepresenting themselves to sell this game to new people? Does that breed trust in you?

I was going to add that their marketing of the game was handled extremely poorly, so yes, I agree with you 100%. They haven’t done anything similar since, and I hope it stays that way, because losing the trust of your playerbase due to bad marketing can hurt the game. I love this game and don’t want to see it’s reputation hurt because of this (RNG is an argument as well against Anets reputation, but NCsoft handles the gemstore so they are destroying Anet’s rep. for them…)

New Character Yo.6487:

Maz.8604:

New Character Yo.6487:

OP while I do agree it is not an expansion’s worth of content, all the content was free (and for free content, it was quite a hefty amount).

The point is the press release they are using alongside their price drop to get a fresh batch of players. You agree with my statement about the content, the other question is do you think they should be misrepresenting themselves to sell this game to new people? Does that breed trust in you?

I was going to add that their marketing of the game was handled extremely poorly, so yes, I agree with you 100%. They haven’t done anything similar since, and I hope it stays that way, because losing the trust of your playerbase due to bad marketing can hurt the game. I love this game and don’t want to see it’s reputation hurt because of this (RNG is an argument as well against Anets reputation, but NCsoft handles the gemstore so they are destroying Anet’s rep. for them…)

Without devolving into a back and forth, because I agree with you, the only point I want to make sure is clear is that the “more than an expansion’s worth of content” was in a press release put out yesterday included in an announcement about the price drop. They are actively using it now as much as they did back in January-March.

So..they have added dungeons,new gear,new skins,new story’s,new quests,new wvwvw updates,new pvp maps,pvp skill changes and improvements, etc etc..Call it what you want it,it Is worthy to be called an expansion if you put it all together.Who are you trying to convince and for what reason..?

Maz.8604:

New Character Yo.6487:

Maz.8604:

New Character Yo.6487:

OP while I do agree it is not an expansion’s worth of content, all the content was free (and for free content, it was quite a hefty amount).

The point is the press release they are using alongside their price drop to get a fresh batch of players. You agree with my statement about the content, the other question is do you think they should be misrepresenting themselves to sell this game to new people? Does that breed trust in you?

I was going to add that their marketing of the game was handled extremely poorly, so yes, I agree with you 100%. They haven’t done anything similar since, and I hope it stays that way, because losing the trust of your playerbase due to bad marketing can hurt the game. I love this game and don’t want to see it’s reputation hurt because of this (RNG is an argument as well against Anets reputation, but NCsoft handles the gemstore so they are destroying Anet’s rep. for them…)

Without devolving into a back and forth, because I agree with you, the only point I want to make sure is clear is that the “more than an expansion’s worth of content” was in a press release put out yesterday included in an announcement about the price drop. They are actively using it now as much as they did back in January-March.

I read the article on MMORPG.com, There wasn’t much said in those terms on it. Maybe i’m just missing something, or can’t read properly xD.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/feature/7432/Consistent-Steady-Growth-Puts-Us-in-a-Good-Place.html/page/1

I am not sure which article the OP is referencing, as I have no desire to sign up for that blog site. I did find this article: http://news.mmosite.com/content/2013-05-22/permanent_price_drop_announced_for_guild_wars_2.kittenml that seems to have that quote. The quote in question is made by the article’s author, and no where does the article state that anyone from ArenaNet said that yesterday, or recently.

edit: ack, darn filter…. just place s (get around filter) html at the end

you forget that WoW had a 8month dry spell of NO content whatsoever both before Cataclysm and MoP came out, GW2 wont get that dry spell with there current game model.

i would prefer small, frequent, fun and interesting updates that move the game forward (hello living story!) than a bunch of content then a 3month dry spell then a big patch then a 3 month spell then a patch then a month then a patch then a year then an expansion.

There’s one major point that needs to be addressed here.

When WoW adds an expansion, such as Pandaria, it’s also obsoleting all the prior content. All the earlier raids, zones, etc. are simply no longer viable content once you’ve reached max level. That’s a major, major flaw that GW2 does not replicate. Yes, we’ve seen some content come and go, but nothing has been obsoleted. GW2 adds content. WoW adds and kills content simultaneously.

@DixTrix
@VOLKON

I’m not entirely sure how that invalidates the argument that ArenaNet is misrepresenting the amount of content they’ve added post-release.

@Inculpatus echo

What login? I can read the gamespress.com site without a login.

You must be more fortunate than I. The site asks me to register, as a first-time user.

You can demand all you want for your cheeseburger to look like this: http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5024215061170247&pid=15.1

but it will 99% of the time look like this:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D-u0DU0ZtO0/TWwStSvGBVI/AAAAAAAADjs/7M2k-OXpxt4/s1600/mcdonalds_cheeseburger_01.jpg