Guild Wars 2

penatbater.4710:

You can demand all you want for your cheeseburger to look like this: http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5024215061170247&pid=15.1

but it will 99% of the time look like this:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D-u0DU0ZtO0/TWwStSvGBVI/AAAAAAAADjs/7M2k-OXpxt4/s1600/mcdonalds_cheeseburger_01.jpg

Or just go a place that you know will net you a good burger. I have no illusions the rare times I stop into McDs.

PsionicDingo.2065:

penatbater.4710:

You can demand all you want for your cheeseburger to look like this: http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5024215061170247&pid=15.1

but it will 99% of the time look like this:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D-u0DU0ZtO0/TWwStSvGBVI/AAAAAAAADjs/7M2k-OXpxt4/s1600/mcdonalds_cheeseburger_01.jpg

Or just go a place that you know will net you a good burger. I have no illusions the rare times I stop into McDs.

You’re… kinda missing the point here. But meh, you know what I mean. :p

Maz.8604:

@DixTrix
@VOLKON

I’m not entirely sure how that invalidates the argument that ArenaNet is misrepresenting the amount of content they’ve added post-release.

@Inculpatus echo

What login? I can read the gamespress.com site without a login.

I just tried as well and it indeed wants a registration and login just to read an article.
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Maz.8604:

I will also not that in the launch of the eight year MMO, by this point after their launch they had released their second 40-man PvE experience as well as the revamps to two of their classes’ trait systems in a single major update. Whether that’s your cup of tea is not the point, the substantial development effort shown is. This is following the release of two dungeons, their first swing at a LFG system (with no successful model to follow in an MMO), first swing at PvP maps and rewards… That is all released post-launch.

You gotta be joking that you really think WoW added content 9 months post-launch is more then we got on GW2 so far…

It is sad that marketing has come to mean deception. It didn’t have to be like this. That said, Anet is not alone here and it’s simply a pervasive reality in the business world. Marketing can be interesting as a thing in itself, but it can never be read as an accurate representation of reality.

Journalism and science have fallen to similar gods. Just part of the contemporary landscape.

To be honest, i do think that they released “more than an expansion’s worth of content”. The only downside to that is that sadly, most of it is now gone. All the halloween/christmas/easter stuff has gone, with their stories, instances, jumping puzzles, pvp minigames… Same thing is now happening to the living story now.

There’s plenty of nice content that has been added since launch, but looking at the game now, well, none of it is accessible anymore, so all that’s left is… one new area…

I really think the limited availability content thingie has been overdone.

New level progression system, world xp, lots of upgrades
New items utilities and soon infusions/ascended gear
Breakout events that help when you are losing
More gear variety available, both for looks (all the karma armor) and stats (different sets)
Better upleveling system that makes upleveled characters more powerful (than how they were)

Same thing for structured PVP, loads of updates and changes there too, including spectator mode, custom arenas, leaderboards and 2 new maps. 2 maps might not sound like much, but there were only 4 at release, that’s a 50% boost in map variety.

I don’t know about anyone else but to me what we got since release, does look like an Expansion’s worth of content, at least as far as WvW and sPVP is concerned. Although someone might argue that all these features should’ve been there at release, but still, the fact remains that WvW and sPVP now have changed a lot since release.

PVE hasn’t changed a bit… content came and gone. Other MMORPGs have been doing similar updates for years and years, it’s not original to introduce something like Southsun or the Living Story, in terms of PVE they need to try more and give it some love.

But I’m patient and can wait for that, PvP and WvW had been neglected for a very long time and had been like side-features since release, now they get lots of updates while PVE is getting the Living Story.

Guild Missions and Fractals of the Mists where both nice additions to the game, I could hardly call them expansion worthy though, more like monthly update worthy.

I would agree with the statement, if all the content we’ve gotten so far was released at the same time. But seeing as they are removing most of the content they add, it doesn’t feel like an “expansion worth of content” at all. Next to that, the content ArenaNet have released so far is rather shallow, because they have their hands too full, trying to make content for three different game modes, at the same time. I would much rather have one full expansion, focusing on either PvE, sPvP, or WvW, with more depth and larger impact to it, then a handful of updates that I can barely be bothered to remember.

They gave it a shot, but so far I don’t think it’s working. The living stories have had some really bad writing so far, and story arcs that evolve so fast, you barely get to know the characters in them before it’s all over again. WvW skills are forgettable, and blobs of 70-100 players are still formed too easily, because there is no real benefit of running in groups of 30 players. sPvP, I’m not even going to bother writing about, as there are still too many things to mention.

I wish ArenaNet would just take out three months, and focus on only making a deep living story in PvE, with some great writing and character development. Or focus on making WvW more engaging for smaller groups of players, while making an actual interesting WvW skill system, that has some impact on the game. Or just work on making sPvP worthy of the name that is eSport, instead of the beta product that it currently is. I’m tired of getting half kitten content for all three modes. It just doesn’t work.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

You are comparing apples to apples in terms of what was updated, but not what was advertised, which is the topic of discussion.

The update in prophecies was not an expansion. Eye of the North is the only thing the Guild Wars universe has had that has been advertised as an expansion. Therefore comparing it to the ‘expansion worth of content’ is an apples to apples comparison.

I understand the limitations of why they cannot add that, but if they are too limited to put out updates of an expansion worth of content by their own historical definition, then they shouldn’t say as much.

It would be like me saying, I’m going to give you $1000 tomorrow. Then tomorrow, I give you $10. Then I say it’s OK, because I have only been at my job for a week and cannot afford to give you $1000. Fair enough, but I still lied.

Two things I would like to see:

1.Player generated content — endless and takes a great burden off of the dev.
2.The world of Tyria lives up to the hype that arenanet made, in terms of DEs impacting the world around you. I remember hearing:

’You can choose to defend that camp against centaurs or not, either choice has an impact on the surrounding area"
-I thought this meant that if I decide to let the camp fall, the NPCs disappear, the hearts disappear and we have to retake the camp. Sure, this type of scenario is present in some areas of the game. I figured it would be all. For example, Kessex hills, defending that bridge. Ive defended that bridge from centaurs repairing it dozens of times. If we failed to do it, would the centaurs build the bridge? If so, what impact does that have on the zone?

“you could level through an area once, and then again on a different character and have a completely different experience”.
—simply not true. I run through the same dynamic events each time through a zone. I’ll do the same hearts, and eventually stumble across the same dynamic events that I’ve done on a previous character, 2 months prior.

My point is, our decisions do not dictate the world around us, and I was kind of hoping for that. In rift, if we do not stop invasions, enemy NPCs roam wild in hordes killing friendly NPCs and quest givers. They then create whats called “footholds” where a bunch of them hangout at once they have taken the town over. When these hordes are roaming, they are roaming randomly. They do not seem to be pathed.

THAT is what I want in GW2. THAT would make the world so lively.

If one were to look at my posting history it would become very apparent I am not exactly the biggest cheerleader for GW2/ANet. That said, this is simply a case of PR people being PR people (and, frankly, doing what they are paid to do). I wouldn’t get overly worked up for it, nor would I consider it a particularly import point of contention.

Phaedryn.3698:

If one were to look at my posting history it would become very apparent I am not exactly the biggest cheerleader for GW2/ANet. That said, this is simply a case of PR people being PR people (and, frankly, doing what they are paid to do). I wouldn’t get overly worked up for it, nor would I consider it a particularly import point of contention.

Interestingly, I feel the exact opposite. I love ANet and this game and am a huge supporter of the product. I love all the added content they are delivering.

I am, however, against deceitful advertising. There are a couple of reasons why I believe this is a point worth talking about:

1. Anyone who is thinking about buying the game and has decided to research up on it will come to the forum and notice this. They will then realize that the expansion worth of content quoted in the advertisement is untrue.

2. ANet and NCSOFT will see we are unhappy with this and will, hopefully, rectify their marketing techniques going forward.

They could simply adjust their terminology and get the same point across. for example:

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released a lot of fun and exciting new content, regularly hosted special events like Halloween, Lost Shores and Wintersday, introduced players to the retro-goodness of the Super Adventure Box, and engaged players with the Living World philosophy, all the while continually updating and tweaking the game experience. There are record numbers of people playing Guild Wars 2 and the recent WvW and PvP updates are just the first drops in a shower of new updates.

Or something to that effect..

I bolded record numbers because that is misleading. Perhaps exclude it or be more specific. What sort of record are they breaking? Are there more people online than any other MM out there? (doubt it). Are there more people online now than September? Are there more people online than any other F2P game? Are there more people online in this game than any other game at an equivalent amount of time after release? Are there more people online than Guild Wars 1 at the same point in it’s life? etc etc..

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just for clarity, this quote isn’t from NCSoft PR, marketing, or ArenaNet.

It was written by the person who wrote the article, who was expressing their own opinion about the state of the game. We’re excited and humbled they feel that way, but that’s up for each of you (and the press) to decide on your own.

We’ve only once as a company made any reference to a statement about “expansions worth of content”, December of last year, in one interview and we both very quickly clarified what we meant by such, and also asked our marketing team to remove this from our future messaging since it means wildly different things to different people making it impossible to be true for everyone. (For example I expected the sandwichmancer profession in an expansion and didn’t get one in jan/feb/march, that’s BS ArenaNet!)

As a reminder, the stuff we are trying to work on can be summarized high-level here, and we’ll update this again later this year with our progress:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

Hey Colin,

Thanks for the clarification, and my apologies for misunderstanding! I did not realize that it wasn’t NCSOFT or ArenaNet who had said it more recently. I also originally missed the post where you retracting /clarified the statement a few months back.

Keep up the good work, loving Living Story

You all heard it here first! A new sandwichmancer class will be released in jan/feb/march! Quick, update the Intertnets with this exciting news!!!

I’m joking… LOL

Considering 80% of the stuff they have added has also been removed, there’s been nowhere near an expansions worth of content for the game, but then i don’t expect an expansions worth of content without actually buying an expansion.

Having little fresh content every month is quite nice, but i still expect to have a full blown expansion at some point that adds a whole new story to the game, new dungeons, pvp maps and game modes, whole new continent or open the rest of Tyria, maybe a new profession or race and so on. But I’m not expecting that untill at least the end of this year.

Jordo.5913:

man…i always find it funny when people try to tell a company how to run their company

when what they did in the first place, got you to buy the game

i guess their marketing worked huh?

i don’t quite understand why they used that phrase after what colin said….but in the end your a gamer, play the game and quit worrying about it…that’s what Arenanet gets paid to do

if you want to help run arenanet…go get your degree in marketing and apply for a job

This attitude is part of the problem. It’s not wrong to call them out on marketing problems. Those marketing ploys set our expecations – those get ruined, they’re out of cash. We all want this game to be enjoyable, lately it’s been falling short. It’s in our interest to voice these worries.

Have you folks never seen a beer commercial, car commercial, soap commercial, any commercial? Coke started out as a ‘health’ medicine basically one step up from snake oil, and they seem to be doing ok. Its spin, its no big deal.

^.^

Zimlobo.3962:

You all heard it here first! A new sandwichmancer class will be released in jan/feb/march! Quick, update the Intertnets with this exciting news!!!

I’m joking… LOL

Im pretty sure by jan/feb/march of 2014 we will have the “Where is the sandwichmancer profession Colin promissed us?” topics.

Maz.8604:

So today, I saw this

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released more than an expansion’s worth of content, regularly hosted special events like Halloween, Lost Shores and Wintersday, introduced players to the retro-goodness of the Super Adventure Box, and engaged players with the Living World philosophy, all the while continually updating and tweaking the game experience. There are record numbers of people playing Guild Wars 2 and the recent WvW and PvP updates are just the first drops in a shower of new updates.

Emphasis mine.

Which brings to mind a certain eight year running MMO that just released an expansion around the time GW2 came out, which had several new zones, a new class, a new race, dungeons, raid content, etc, etc. It seems far meatier in simple terms of content and overall development effort than what what GW2 has released, and not only that, but substantively and permanently added to the game world itself.

Then, I remembered this

ColinJohanson.2394:

Saying something like “expansions worth of content” means different things to everyone, and is nearly an impossible goal to meet expectation wise since everything expects something different, which is a big part of why marketing stepped away from that plan very quickly after asking us to use it when speaking to the press/fans.

Just to point this out, it seems like you are still hyping up your achievements post-launch beyond their scope. People do have a fairly commonly accepted idea of what is worthy of being an expansion, and if what you plan on releasing as a paid expansion is of the same scope as the updates we have gotten so far, I think it would be a poor consumer decision to purchase it.

The kitten game has been out less than a year! For the little amount of time it has been released we have been give more than enough content!

Wow, so many people who don’t understand something so simple. That article is clearly not written by NCSoft or ArenaNet, and if the writer believes that

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released more than an expansion’s worth of content

then sure he has low standards for expansions, but that’s absolutely no reason for people to start a witch-hunt for ArenaNet’s marketing team. That is one journalist’s opinion and is in no way a form of deception from the makers of the game.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Wow, so many people who don’t understand something so simple. That article is clearly not written by NCSoft or ArenaNet, and if the writer believes that

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released more than an expansion’s worth of content

then sure he has low standards for expansions, but that’s absolutely no reason for people to start a witch-hunt for ArenaNet’s marketing team. That is one journalist’s opinion and is in no way a form of deception from the makers of the game.

Sorry can hear you, i’m too busy handing out pitch forks and torches.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just for clarity, this quote isn’t from NCSoft PR, marketing, or ArenaNet.

It was written by the person who wrote the article, who was expressing their own opinion about the state of the game. We’re excited and humbled they feel that way, but that’s up for each of you (and the press) to decide on your own.

We’ve only once as a company made any reference to a statement about “expansions worth of content”, December of last year, in one interview and we both very quickly clarified what we meant by such, and also asked our marketing team to remove this from our future messaging since it means wildly different things to different people making it impossible to be true for everyone. (For example I expected the sandwichmancer profession in an expansion and didn’t get one in jan/feb/march, that’s BS ArenaNet!)

As a reminder, the stuff we are trying to work on can be summarized high-level here, and we’ll update this again later this year with our progress:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

The original press release, saved off a cache to a PDF format… looks like print formatting struck it

Also validated on Guru.

So Colin, if what you say is true, then how come Bastion the company that printed the original press release, lists NCSoft as a client here?

It seems this company is employed to speak for NCSoft and by extension, ArenaNet as as you are a wholly owned subsidiary.

Unless you are in the habit of letting firms issue releases on your behalf without vetting them, it seems this company does in fact speak for you.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Great question. I have no idea who Bastion is, but I’ll look into it, thanks for the heads up Maz!

Good to know, Colin.

Because they apparently know you.

Bastion was tasked with achieving widespread specialist and mainstream coverage by publisher NCSOFT.

We had already worked on the early stages of Guild Wars 2, helping it become one of the most anticipated games of 2012. Therefore, come launch, we were faced with two challenges. First, we need to produce a launch campaign for the specialist press that lived up to the pre-launch hype. Secondly, we had to connect with the mainstream press and console gamers that Guild Wars 2 was an MMO worth paying attention to.

To achieve this, we stayed in constant contact with the specialist press. From developer interviews and dedicated walkthroughs to beta weekends the specialist press were kept up-to-date with everything to do with Guild Wars 2. Exclusives were created where possible, but the overall aim was to be confident the specialist press knew everything about the game by the time it launched.

For the mainstream media, we hosted a dedicated launch event to highlight the key pillars of the game and its strengths as a triple A title and not just an MMO. Hiring a London penthouse, white from ceiling to floor, eradicated the initial stigma of what MMO gaming is like and enabled journalists to come with an open mind. A short presentation was laid on for all visitors by ArenaNet, the game’s developers, highlighting the key elements of the game before journalists were allowed to get hands on with the game itself.

The hard work and dedication put into educating and communicating effectively with the press resulted in fantastic review scores for Guild Wars 2. Both PCGamer and GamesMaster gave Guild Wars 2 94 per cent while Eurogamer, GamesTM and NowGamer scored the game 9 out of 10.

In terms of mainstream press, the Independent, the Guardian, the Observer, Digital Spy and Empire all gave Guild Wars 2 five stars, Metal Hammer gave 9 out of 10, while the Sun and the Metro gave it 4 out of 5.

I’m surprised you didn’t run into these guys while preparing the game for launch.

Apparently, it’s not the only thing they’ve written about you guys.

So it’s a press guy that talks about stuff?

What a novel idea…

Maz.8604:

Good to know, Colin.

Because they apparently know you.

I’m surprised you didn’t run into these guys while preparing the game for launch.

Apparently, it’s not the only thing they’ve written about you guys.

To be honest though, you can’t seriously expect Colin to remember names of every single company/individual who asked him a question at some point in the past. He’s the Game Director for GW2, not President of PR for NCsoft.

Heck, I asked Colin about mainhand pistols for Mesmers; but he probably already forgot who asked him.

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

You are comparing apples to apples in terms of what was updated, but not what was advertised, which is the topic of discussion.

The update in prophecies was not an expansion. Eye of the North is the only thing the Guild Wars universe has had that has been advertised as an expansion. Therefore comparing it to the ‘expansion worth of content’ is an apples to apples comparison.

I understand the limitations of why they cannot add that, but if they are too limited to put out updates of an expansion worth of content by their own historical definition, then they shouldn’t say as much.

It would be like me saying, I’m going to give you $1000 tomorrow. Then tomorrow, I give you $10. Then I say it’s OK, because I have only been at my job for a week and cannot afford to give you $1000. Fair enough, but I still lied.

There was a clarification on what that meant by Colin after the original line was used. What he said, and he said this very clearly and publicly, was thakitten mean literally an expansion worth of content. Not the same THINGS that would be in an expansion, but the same amount of programming time/work/effort that would have gone into an expansion.

It’s not clear what an expansion’s worth of content really means, but that clarification sets what is meant at a different level. Everyone assumes an expansions worth of content means the same things you’d have in an expansion. But that’s not really what the words mean, that’s how people interpret it.

That’s really the trick about marketing. You say things that aren’t false, and allow people to mislead themselves.

That doesn’t make it any better, but it does mean that specifically comparing it to what’s in a different expansion isn’t actually a lie. It’s misdirection.

Aveneo.2068:

Maz.8604:

Good to know, Colin.

Because they apparently know you.

I’m surprised you didn’t run into these guys while preparing the game for launch.

Apparently, it’s not the only thing they’ve written about you guys.

To be honest though, you can’t seriously expect Colin to remember names of every single company/individual who asked him a question at some point in the past. He’s the Game Director for GW2, not President of PR for NCsoft.

Heck, I asked Colin about mainhand pistols for Mesmers; but he probably already forgot who asked him.

A name of that friend-of-a-friend that helped me sell my artwork that one time? sure – I’d completely forget that person’s name.

However, A PR company (I’m sure it would have been one of a few), that helped market the game you spent 5 odd years making, and millions of dollars funding? I’d know the company name at the very least!

Slightly off topic: Thought I do understand to some degree. Working in media, ad agencies do the same thing. They hire multiple production studios to work on a single product at times, working on specific areas. I can only imagine, since they’re based in London (very close to me actually!) that they dealt with the London side of things and sorting logistics around our ever expensive game shops.

BUT – i will say this. Production studios and ad agencies often make it clear who was working with them. Because media is such a small community, as soon as you “forget” a company that worked for you, you’ll find that word has spread and it gets a little poisonous.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just for clarity, this quote isn’t from NCSoft PR, marketing, or ArenaNet.

I’m really glad to hear this directly . It had me very worried a friend’s guild even knee-jerked, him and their 224 members left for neverwinter over it I know it’s not a very large number but none the less the statement was enough to scare people.

However it does seem the place where this originated is in fact contracted with NCSoft .

What happened to the days where gamers would stick by their MMO of choice, through the thick and thin, instead of happily bouncing from one MMO to the next once a player found out that a developer could never live up to their unrealistic level of hype in their heads?

The amount of disrespect being shown in these forums towards the developers of this content is astonishing. These people work long hours and pay meticulous attention to detail to have certain gamers on the forums trivialize their hard work by calling it a nothing piece of content.

Maybe most have had it too well over the past couple years, but coming from Warhammer Online, I can tell you that, for me, this stream of content is like none I have ever seen before outside of java based games like runescape.

I agree that we can have some serious concerns and arguments about the direction of future content, as we should. We have every right to protest NCSoft’s decision to turn GW2 into a more Korean-esqe content model, but to trivialize the hard work done by ArenaNet’s developers by calling it non-content is offensive.

Argue for more permanent content if that’s what you want, don’t spend you time attacking our current content. For all you know, the first year’s worth of development is spent on producing these time limited content updates in order to get the yearly stuff out of the way so that they can focus more on permanent stuff, instead of those yearly things.

• As far as articles made by journalists looking for a name by putting sensationlist stuff out there goes, I would urge each customer to form their own opinions about the game and take those through the proper channels. Don’t let some media outlet make you their lemming.

nethykins.7986:

A name of that friend-of-a-friend that helped me sell my artwork that one time? sure – I’d completely forget that person’s name.

However, A PR company (I’m sure it would have been one of a few), that helped market the game you spent 5 odd years making, and millions of dollars funding? I’d know the company name at the very least!

Slightly off topic: Thought I do understand to some degree. Working in media, ad agencies do the same thing. They hire multiple production studios to work on a single product at times, working on specific areas. I can only imagine, since they’re based in London (very close to me actually!) that they dealt with the London side of things and sorting logistics around our ever expensive game shops.

BUT – i will say this. Production studios and ad agencies often make it clear who was working with them. Because media is such a small community, as soon as you “forget” a company that worked for you, you’ll find that word has spread and it gets a little poisonous.

Your point being?

If I were a designing a game (which at the moment I am) and a giant company picks it up and gets me a development studio and funding to create it; would I honestly care how they handle the PR and management of overseas sales and marketing? Nope.

Am I going to remember every person who helped market it overseas? Nope. They get paid to do it, and they do it because they get paid. Nothing poisonous, just business.

And in the meantime I’d just talk about the game as a game designer to the fans and media during conventions whilst leaving corporate overseas marketing strategies to the corporate overseas marketing strategists.

Completely agree, it’s like when people say they fulfilled their part in the open world content I have to laugh because it’s completely obvious people forgot just what they said they would do prelaunch and they don’t seem to see the huge difference there is between what they said they’d do and what these tiny LS patches really are.

WoW has released more then an expansion world of content in their 5.1 5.2 5.3 patches alone and they work on ALL aspects of gameplay when they do it, the don’t throw people a temporary bone in the hopes that we’ll be quiet. That’s how some of us feel about what’s been happening with open world content. It’s like they’re saying if it’s not dungeoneers or WvW then who cares.

Vayne.8563:

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

You are comparing apples to apples in terms of what was updated, but not what was advertised, which is the topic of discussion.

The update in prophecies was not an expansion. Eye of the North is the only thing the Guild Wars universe has had that has been advertised as an expansion. Therefore comparing it to the ‘expansion worth of content’ is an apples to apples comparison.

I understand the limitations of why they cannot add that, but if they are too limited to put out updates of an expansion worth of content by their own historical definition, then they shouldn’t say as much.

It would be like me saying, I’m going to give you $1000 tomorrow. Then tomorrow, I give you $10. Then I say it’s OK, because I have only been at my job for a week and cannot afford to give you $1000. Fair enough, but I still lied.

There was a clarification on what that meant by Colin after the original line was used. What he said, and he said this very clearly and publicly, was thakitten mean literally an expansion worth of content. Not the same THINGS that would be in an expansion, but the same amount of programming time/work/effort that would have gone into an expansion.

It’s not clear what an expansion’s worth of content really means, but that clarification sets what is meant at a different level. Everyone assumes an expansions worth of content means the same things you’d have in an expansion. But that’s not really what the words mean, that’s how people interpret it.

That’s really the trick about marketing. You say things that aren’t false, and allow people to mislead themselves.

That doesn’t make it any better, but it does mean that specifically comparing it to what’s in a different expansion isn’t actually a lie. It’s misdirection.

This is what makes them look bad. Really bad. An expansion is a specific term. If they want to allude to quantity merely – that’s fine – but that’s not what this is. They’re saying enough content to comprise an expansion will be released.

They’ve been on a downhill slide since the Ascended Gear fiasco and I’m starting to get a bit concern about the direction of the game. It’s things like this that keep adding fuel to that fear.

Destai.9603:

Vayne.8563:

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

You are comparing apples to apples in terms of what was updated, but not what was advertised, which is the topic of discussion.

The update in prophecies was not an expansion. Eye of the North is the only thing the Guild Wars universe has had that has been advertised as an expansion. Therefore comparing it to the ‘expansion worth of content’ is an apples to apples comparison.

I understand the limitations of why they cannot add that, but if they are too limited to put out updates of an expansion worth of content by their own historical definition, then they shouldn’t say as much.

It would be like me saying, I’m going to give you $1000 tomorrow. Then tomorrow, I give you $10. Then I say it’s OK, because I have only been at my job for a week and cannot afford to give you $1000. Fair enough, but I still lied.

There was a clarification on what that meant by Colin after the original line was used. What he said, and he said this very clearly and publicly, was thakitten mean literally an expansion worth of content. Not the same THINGS that would be in an expansion, but the same amount of programming time/work/effort that would have gone into an expansion.

It’s not clear what an expansion’s worth of content really means, but that clarification sets what is meant at a different level. Everyone assumes an expansions worth of content means the same things you’d have in an expansion. But that’s not really what the words mean, that’s how people interpret it.

That’s really the trick about marketing. You say things that aren’t false, and allow people to mislead themselves.

That doesn’t make it any better, but it does mean that specifically comparing it to what’s in a different expansion isn’t actually a lie. It’s misdirection.

This is what makes them look bad. Really bad. An expansion is a specific term. If they want to allude to quantity merely – that’s fine – but that’s not what this is. They’re saying enough content to comprise an expansion will be released.

They’ve been on a downhill slide since the Ascended Gear fiasco and I’m starting to get a bit concern about the direction of the game. It’s things like this that keep adding fuel to that fear.

Actually I don’t know how you define a downhill slide, because I see the game trending upwards. Maybe YOU don’t like the content, so YOU consider it a downhill slide. This is the kind of content I’d rather have. Not more dungeons. Not raids. Open world content that keeps some people in the open world. It’s what I’ve always wanted in an MMO.

I think Anet is still finding the groove for the game and experimenting, which is why we see changes all the time. For example the new dungeon coming will have a solo mode which unlocks a multiplayer mode. I like that a lot. I think it’s a good decision and we haven’t seen that before.

Anet really is in unchartered territory with the living world stuff. I haven’t seen any other game do this. As it grows, expands, gets better, it might well be the one thing that makes this game different from all the others, or at least most of the others.

Raine.1394:

It is sad that marketing has come to mean deception. It didn’t have to be like this. That said, Anet is not alone here and it’s simply a pervasive reality in the business world. Marketing can be interesting as a thing in itself, but it can never be read as an accurate representation of reality.

Journalism and science have fallen to similar gods. Just part of the contemporary landscape.

Not in Europe. Here we’re a bit more critical and stuff like “fair and balanced” or “teach the controversy” doesn’t convince us. Here in Germany an average flyer has 2 lines of cool description and a list of cold facts. False advertisement only works if you let it work.

Destai.9603:

Vayne.8563:

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

You are comparing apples to apples in terms of what was updated, but not what was advertised, which is the topic of discussion.

The update in prophecies was not an expansion. Eye of the North is the only thing the Guild Wars universe has had that has been advertised as an expansion. Therefore comparing it to the ‘expansion worth of content’ is an apples to apples comparison.

I understand the limitations of why they cannot add that, but if they are too limited to put out updates of an expansion worth of content by their own historical definition, then they shouldn’t say as much.

It would be like me saying, I’m going to give you $1000 tomorrow. Then tomorrow, I give you $10. Then I say it’s OK, because I have only been at my job for a week and cannot afford to give you $1000. Fair enough, but I still lied.

There was a clarification on what that meant by Colin after the original line was used. What he said, and he said this very clearly and publicly, was thakitten mean literally an expansion worth of content. Not the same THINGS that would be in an expansion, but the same amount of programming time/work/effort that would have gone into an expansion.

It’s not clear what an expansion’s worth of content really means, but that clarification sets what is meant at a different level. Everyone assumes an expansions worth of content means the same things you’d have in an expansion. But that’s not really what the words mean, that’s how people interpret it.

That’s really the trick about marketing. You say things that aren’t false, and allow people to mislead themselves.

That doesn’t make it any better, but it does mean that specifically comparing it to what’s in a different expansion isn’t actually a lie. It’s misdirection.

This is what makes them look bad. Really bad. An expansion is a specific term. If they want to allude to quantity merely – that’s fine – but that’s not what this is. They’re saying enough content to comprise an expansion will be released.

They’ve been on a downhill slide since the Ascended Gear fiasco and I’m starting to get a bit concern about the direction of the game. It’s things like this that keep adding fuel to that fear.

To be fair, the ascended fiasco wasn’t necessary if proper communication was used, but on the other hand, ascended isn’t nearly as bad as some people thought. Personally I like the very slow pace in which it’s introduced, even though I was part of the original ascended outcry.

Given how even their worst fiasco is handled so well, I wonder how you could define a steady increase as a downhill slide. But sure, you’re entitled to your opinion, I’d prefer to look at the facts.

Maz.8604:

The second quote is over two months old, the press release came out today, the original marketing of “an expansion worth of content” came out in January. They must pretty poor communication, in that case.

Don’t excuse this behavior. Responsible, accurate marketing is important in running a business and key to empowering your fellow consumers. Especially in a price drop press release designed to draw in people who might be considering the game.

Do not let ArenaNet misrepresent themselves. Do not excuse it.

meh, calm down the game is the best and I got it when it was on sale, guessing you bought it launch day and had to pay 60, I would still be satisfied with this game If I had to pay that. Your making it seem like they said “GW2 is a mmo” than on launch it was just a call of duty. Things could be worse, be happy with what we have and look forward to the new free content that we’ve been getting this whole time.

I feel like it’s been a lot. They have added new skins, new armor stats, new crafting recipes, new dungeons, core gameplay polishing, profession balance, spvp additions, a new zone, new mini dungeons, a living story, and epic seasonal events. I don’t know how to express all of that although I will say that using the phrase "expansions worth" sets the bar very high for a real expansion.

Maz.8604:
I will also not that in the launch of the eight year MMO, by this point after their launch they had released their second 40-man PvE experience as well as the revamps to two of their classes’ trait systems in a single major update. Whether that’s your cup of tea is not the point, the substantial development effort shown is. This is following the release of two dungeons, their first swing at a LFG system (with no successful model to follow in an MMO), first swing at PvP maps and rewards… That is all released post-launch.

What?

Talent system and XP rework – should of been in release, it shipped WITHOUT talent tree’s for some classes, at all, xp was an afterthought, a simple thing to change.

PvP BGs – was stated to be in at release but wasnt, again this was obviously not finished but mostly done, a new map being released (or has it bee?) for MoP latley has been in the game files since alpha, just never activated, also PvP Battlegrounds where added close to 1year AFTER launch, think you have your timescales wrong on this one.

the two dungeons again where in the data files but never finished and the 40man raid shipped with unplayable bugs for a whole month and a half.

Rose tintes glasses i think (or read a fanboy article) now Arenanet has done a fantastic job so far and i really wouldn’t knock it, its free, its frequent, it’s ambitious.

DrixTrix.7168:

Maz.8604:
I will also not that in the launch of the eight year MMO, by this point after their launch they had released their second 40-man PvE experience as well as the revamps to two of their classes’ trait systems in a single major update. Whether that’s your cup of tea is not the point, the substantial development effort shown is. This is following the release of two dungeons, their first swing at a LFG system (with no successful model to follow in an MMO), first swing at PvP maps and rewards… That is all released post-launch.

---

What?

Talent system and XP rework – should of been in release, it shipped WITHOUT talent tree’s for some classes, at all, xp was an afterthought, a simple thing to change.

PvP BGs – was stated to be in at release but wasnt, again this was obviously not finished but mostly done, a new map being released (or has it bee?) for MoP latley has been in the game files since alpha, just never activated, also PvP Battlegrounds where added close to 1year AFTER launch, think you have your timescales wrong on this one.

the two dungeons again where in the data files but never finished and the 40man raid shipped with unplayable bugs for a whole month and a half.

Rose tintes glasses i think (or read a fanboy article) now Arenanet has done a fantastic job so far and i really wouldn’t knock it, its free, its frequent, it’s ambitious.

Ambitious is the word I’d use to. This whole game is ambitious. Everything about it, from the scale of WvW, to the size of the zones to the size of the world. They did underwater differently than any other game (like it or not, it’s different). They streamlined so many things that other games have been getting wrong for years.

So yeah, there are balance issues (which there are in every game) and there are missing features (LFG tool, Guild Halls), but what Anet has done with this game is nothing short of astounding.

You can complain about RNG all you want, you can say you don’t like temporary content, but this game has already have a decided affect on the genre and that affect will continue to be felt.

How many ideas from Guild Wars 2 have already ended up in other games?

Vayne.8563:

Destai.9603:

Vayne.8563:

Jemmi.6058:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

This is how I define a Guild Wars expansion:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North

Some of the features included:

• 41 new armor sets
• 18 dungeons
• 124 new quests
• 4 new regions (each with a number of explorable areas)

And guess what? It wasn’t temporary content. Can anything added to GW2 since launch come close to matching all that?

That was a paid expansion two years after the game launched. Why not compare apples to apples. The updates prophecies got was Sorrows Furnace and hard mode, which was the same missions but harder.

In comparison Guild Wars 2 got a new PvP map, Fractals, Guild Missions and a ton of temporary content in the same space of time.

Guild Wars 2 has done far better with updates than Guild Wars 1, at least thus far. Anyone who denies it isn’t paying attention.

You are comparing apples to apples in terms of what was updated, but not what was advertised, which is the topic of discussion.

The update in prophecies was not an expansion. Eye of the North is the only thing the Guild Wars universe has had that has been advertised as an expansion. Therefore comparing it to the ‘expansion worth of content’ is an apples to apples comparison.

I understand the limitations of why they cannot add that, but if they are too limited to put out updates of an expansion worth of content by their own historical definition, then they shouldn’t say as much.

It would be like me saying, I’m going to give you $1000 tomorrow. Then tomorrow, I give you $10. Then I say it’s OK, because I have only been at my job for a week and cannot afford to give you $1000. Fair enough, but I still lied.

There was a clarification on what that meant by Colin after the original line was used. What he said, and he said this very clearly and publicly, was thakitten mean literally an expansion worth of content. Not the same THINGS that would be in an expansion, but the same amount of programming time/work/effort that would have gone into an expansion.

It’s not clear what an expansion’s worth of content really means, but that clarification sets what is meant at a different level. Everyone assumes an expansions worth of content means the same things you’d have in an expansion. But that’s not really what the words mean, that’s how people interpret it.

That’s really the trick about marketing. You say things that aren’t false, and allow people to mislead themselves.

That doesn’t make it any better, but it does mean that specifically comparing it to what’s in a different expansion isn’t actually a lie. It’s misdirection.

This is what makes them look bad. Really bad. An expansion is a specific term. If they want to allude to quantity merely – that’s fine – but that’s not what this is. They’re saying enough content to comprise an expansion will be released.

They’ve been on a downhill slide since the Ascended Gear fiasco and I’m starting to get a bit concern about the direction of the game. It’s things like this that keep adding fuel to that fear.

Actually I don’t know how you define a downhill slide, because I see the game trending upwards. Maybe YOU don’t like the content, so YOU consider it a downhill slide. This is the kind of content I’d rather have. Not more dungeons. Not raids. Open world content that keeps some people in the open world. It’s what I’ve always wanted in an MMO.

I think Anet is still finding the groove for the game and experimenting, which is why we see changes all the time. For example the new dungeon coming will have a solo mode which unlocks a multiplayer mode. I like that a lot. I think it’s a good decision and we haven’t seen that before.

Anet really is in unchartered territory with the living world stuff. I haven’t seen any other game do this. As it grows, expands, gets better, it might well be the one thing that makes this game different from all the others, or at least most of the others.

I agree. And you’re on point – it’s a downhill slide for me. I should have specified that. Don’t get me wrong, I like the new content. I like the living world stuff. But, I am tired of the over-hyping and marketing. I am tired of not seeing new permanent content. Furthermore, it’s a bit unsettling they’re still trying get into their groove. I get it – they’re trying new stuff and most of it is really cool. I just don’t see how not actually expanding the game is a good thing. The constant washing away of content doesn’t make the game richer. The living story is little more than dailies or weeklies.

And yes, I’d love to see more open world content. It seems like most of it is concentrated in either the newbie zones or the end zones – leaving the meat of the game unattended. I hope the living story can address that.

Destai.9603:

1
I agree. And you’re on point – it’s a downhill slide for me. I should have specified that. Don’t get me wrong, I like the new content. I like the living world stuff. But, I am tired of the over-hyping and marketing. I am tired of not seeing new permanent content. Furthermore, it’s a bit unsettling they’re still trying get into their groove. I get it – they’re trying new stuff and most of it is really cool. I just don’t see how not actually expanding the game is a good thing. The constant washing away of content doesn’t make the game richer. The living story is little more than dailies or weeklies.

And yes, I’d love to see more open world content. It seems like most of it is concentrated in either the newbie zones or the end zones – leaving the meat of the game unattended. I hope the living story can address that.

I don’t know, MF dungeon wasn’t a daily, and there’s another dungeon coming up in a couple of days. If that isn’t good enough for you, find a game with more content in the first place. There aren’t many and certainly none I can name that are out for 9 months.

As for finding their way, not only do most MMOs take a year or two to find their way, but most change ways at various points. That’s why vanilla WoW players left after Wrath was released and why so many left when MoP was released. The game changed. It happens with every MMO.

Guild Wars 2’s first major change, and challenge, was the release of ascended gear, which kitten ed a lot of people off….but probably kept even more people playing. Now the living story is just starting. This is new territory. Like it or not, if you’re playing this game, you’re part of the experiment.

And so far, I mostly like it. I hope the instance this month is as good as MF.

Vayne.8563:

Destai.9603:

1
I agree. And you’re on point – it’s a downhill slide for me. I should have specified that. Don’t get me wrong, I like the new content. I like the living world stuff. But, I am tired of the over-hyping and marketing. I am tired of not seeing new permanent content. Furthermore, it’s a bit unsettling they’re still trying get into their groove. I get it – they’re trying new stuff and most of it is really cool. I just don’t see how not actually expanding the game is a good thing. The constant washing away of content doesn’t make the game richer. The living story is little more than dailies or weeklies.

And yes, I’d love to see more open world content. It seems like most of it is concentrated in either the newbie zones or the end zones – leaving the meat of the game unattended. I hope the living story can address that.

I don’t know, MF dungeon wasn’t a daily, and there’s another dungeon coming up in a couple of days. If that isn’t good enough for you, find a game with more content in the first place. There aren’t many and certainly none I can name that are out for 9 months.

As for finding their way, not only do most MMOs take a year or two to find their way, but most change ways at various points. That’s why vanilla WoW players left after Wrath was released and why so many left when MoP was released. The game changed. It happens with every MMO.

Guild Wars 2’s first major change, and challenge, was the release of ascended gear, which kitten ed a lot of people off….but probably kept even more people playing. Now the living story is just starting. This is new territory. Like it or not, if you’re playing this game, you’re part of the experiment.

And so far, I mostly like it. I hope the instance this month is as good as MF.

I hope it’s that good too. That was by far the most joy I’ve had in a dungeon.

They never said there won’t be an expansion, remind that also:),We only like 9 months live now like Vayne said.About the overhyping, wel so what, everbody does it, even you!

friend:Hey fella how are ya today?me:good good and you, still working on your house?
friend:Ye ye:) its gonna look like a castel.me:Realy awesome dude:),when will it be ready?
friend:aah i think in about a year or two from here:)me:Good man keep it up:)blablablablablalabla

2year’s later:The house is finished:)………But ….it “It didnt look like a castel at all!!!”

An other friend:Hey man ya interested in buying my car:)i gonna give ya a good price friend a goooood price:).me:realy blablablabla.

That’s what i mean,everybody does it,

I call it “excitement”

kind regard’s

marnick.4305:

Maz.8604:

So today, I saw this

Since the launch of Guild Wars 2, NCSOFT and ArenaNet have released more than an expansion’s worth of content, regularly hosted special events like Halloween, Lost Shores and Wintersday, introduced players to the retro-goodness of the Super Adventure Box, and engaged players with the Living World philosophy, all the while continually updating and tweaking the game experience. There are record numbers of people playing Guild Wars 2 and the recent WvW and PvP updates are just the first drops in a shower of new updates.

Emphasis mine.

Which brings to mind a certain eight year running MMO that just released an expansion around the time GW2 came out, which had several new zones, a new class, a new race, dungeons, raid content, etc, etc. It seems far meatier in simple terms of content and overall development effort than what what GW2 has released, and not only that, but substantively and permanently added to the game world itself.

\

And at the same time effectively destroyed all previously existing content. That other MMO which has been running for eight years, effectively only has 2 or 3 zones, and a handful of raid dungeons. In comparison, the entire GW2 world is valid and useful content, including 9 dungeons.

Well I guess if unused dungeons and empty ghost town zones is considered useful content…lol. It wasn’t even remotely close to an expansions worth of content added. But like I said in another post, I think the mistakes are starting to be realized, and I’d be real surprised if they aren’t working on a massive permanent content patch for those of us that need more content/run through LS in 2 hours. Not to mention content that we can do freely on our own time that doesn’t feel like a punishment for not logging in every day.

I hope Colin relays what he finds out. It sure would be interesting to find out WTF is going on with that.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tachenon.5270:

Jordo.5913:

i guess their marketing worked huh?

Why, yes, yes, it did. If you consider all three Guild Wars campaigns and Eye of the North as ‘marketing’ for Guild Wars 2.

I don’t think GW1 players make up as much of the playerbase as you think.

Well I’m a player from GW1 era, but I can vouch that 90 percent of my gw1 friends either bought the game and quit early, or just never purchased.

Antara.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tachenon.5270:

Jordo.5913:

i guess their marketing worked huh?

Why, yes, yes, it did. If you consider all three Guild Wars campaigns and Eye of the North as ‘marketing’ for Guild Wars 2.

I don’t think GW1 players make up as much of the playerbase as you think.

Well I’m a player from GW1 era, but I can vouch that 90 percent of my gw1 friends either bought the game and quit early, or just never purchased.

Yea, there are a few of us who stuck around. At first it looked like they are trying to appease the WoW crowd, but now I’m not so sure what or who they are trying to appease.

Chuo.4238:

Nah. GW1 was not even close to a perfect game. Nobody’s made a perfect game yet.

That said, there are things about GW1 that are different from any other game out there, and those things, I think, are what the community really liked about it.

Now I happen to think that, with GW2, ArenaNet has changed their target audience, no doubt aiming for something bigger than the GW community. Fair enough, but with that about-face, you shouldn’t be surprised to see quite a few very upset and disappointed GW1 players.

So nobody’s saying GW is the perfect game. What I think the old GW community is saying is that GW2 is not an improved version of GW. It actually got rid of much of what GW players liked so much about GW. So many people expected GW2 to be like GW, but better. Instead we got something that’s not like GW at all, and fairly debatable whether or not it’s a better (or more fun) game.

What does this add up to? A bunch of people who spent 8 years as ArenaNet fans, and the last almost 6 years looking forward to a wonderful improvement in the same spirit as Guild Wars. As we can see, that amounts to a large number of people who are disappointed that their years of excitement and anticipation were mostly not worth it.

Well said Chuo; I do not believe it was entirely intentional though. A bigger fan base= more value. I know they wanted to keep the close-knit GW1 community and tried very hard with HoM and the achievements/name reservations, but the game did take another path all together. That said this is not GW1 and the game will make it’s own name for itself, whether us GW1 fans like it or not.

I believe GW2 is going to have it’s own unique fan base with a close-knit community; It just won’t be the same GW1 fans (excluding some ;] )