Guild Wars 2

The economy, combat, profession balance, rewards that do not reflect content, etc. All are usually governed by very safe, tiny increments meant to ensure nothing unforeseen can happen, and that everything is under as much control as possible. Erring on the side of the system instead of the player. Function first, fun later. Without becoming long-winded, I’m sure you can think of your own examples.

What do you think? Is ANet more concerned about trying to keep their numbers in order, to the point it’s actually making aspects of the game unrewarding or just unenjoyable? Or is it necessary in MMOs to prioritize systems over the individual, for the sake of the whole?

Youve got it right on the head. Anet is prioritizing the system over the player. Because its the right thing to do.

Lets say they go the other way. They err on the side of hte player, and there are bugs that are enjoyable. To some. What if there was a bug that let thieves step through walls, or stack a multiplier on accident that allowed for 1million dmg attacks? These problems of course being the issue of trying to work in mechanics or things taht would obviously be fun. But they end up breaking the game and system.

The system allows for their to be aground for all players. Everyone knows the rules, everyone plays by the rules. From there anything goes. Without the rules, youll quickittenurn into who can abuse who for their own personal satisfaction. No system, no game.

In a board game, there are rules in place to prevent players from performing actions that would be otherwise fun. Not because they want to punish the player, but because they make sure the game as a whole functions for everyones enjoyment. Not just one players.

OP nailed it. their priorities are not in the right place, unless they truely wish for most purchasers to quit.

I am of the opinion that they dont want most of the people who buy the gme to play for very long.

most of their decisions are not based on maximizing fun. they clearly want a smaller player base. it would be cheaper to manage. they sold over 2 million copies . I am sure they are hoping on about 100k people sticking with it.

its cheap and profitable. all the hype and promises you can be sure are lies. and to cover their kitten they are legally bluster

If you’re having to make up hyperbolic examples about 1 million damage attacks to make you’re point then that point probably isn’t much good. I think the point the OP is trying to make is that Anet have got all these complex and fancy systems in place to deal with potential problems, like the drop rate stuff, and there’s no transparency, they don’t explain what they do or how. They make changes and they don’t explain why. It feels like they’ve got a load of people poring over statistics to make everything run to some ideal, but they aren’t explaining what that ideal is. Maybe its just poor communication, they release patch notes but theres never many devs on the forums actaully explaining the reasoning behind changes.

The foundation needs to be solid before building on anything.

No point adding more content before fixing the core mechanics. You will just end up with more things to fix in the future.

The only problem I have found is revisiting some lower level areas. As a decent kit 80 I feel the downscale isnt strong enough, the pve isnt that much of a threat.

Part of this is down to practice and confidence in skills, knowing the game and attack patterns, being able to dodge etc But I think they could downscale a little more

They have their priorities in the right place 100%
The greater good is of paramount importance
if you ignore it you get a broken game that is fun for no one at all
the economy is totally ruined and you have nothing but hackers running around.
and sorry but the game is still 100% fun for me
and yes you can call me an Anet Fanboi and whiteknight!

Xericor.9103:

The only problem I have found is revisiting some lower level areas. As a decent kit 80 I feel the downscale isnt strong enough, the pve isnt that much of a threat.

Part of this is down to practice and confidence in skills, knowing the game and attack patterns, being able to dodge etc But I think they could downscale a little more

Agree, In fact I risk being a broken record on the subject. One problem is that they can’t be more aggressive with downscaling since casual players, who haven’t necessarily learned movement skills too well, need to be overlevel in order to be able to do some of the content.

The game works reasonably well whilst you are levelling: The more skilled players can do content a few levels higher than their actual level, whilst less skilled players or those who just prefer an easier time can over level. This all breaks down at level 80 though if you want to go back and explore the map, whilst also having some interesting gameplay.

The focus on the system is about providing the fun. This is a fundamental piece of multiplayer game design that is often missed. Everything we do has a potential impact on everything anyone else is doing. So of course you balance to the whole system. You can’t give just the loudest complainers some new ability or tweak and ignore everyone else, because then you’re just kicking the problem down the road to the new group of complainers you just created

Function first, fun later is how everything works.

“tiny increments meant to ensure nothing unforeseen can happen”

Sounds perfectly sensible to me. If it were any other way I would question whether the company was being run by professionals or hobbyists in over their heads.

Agree, In fact I risk being a broken record on the subject. One problem is that they can’t be more aggressive with downscaling since casual players, who haven’t necessarily learned movement skills too well, need to be overlevel in order to be able to do some of the content.

where would you need movement skills in lower-lvl areas? most mobs hardly do anything special and if you can easily bruteforce your way through with pure damage.

which then leads to decreased rewards due to less “challenge”, which then in turn makes everything but the cursed shore karmatrain unrewarding.

so if you done the 100% with one char there is really no reason to do anything else (thanks to crappy reward/time ratio thanks to pure grind required).

forcing people to do sth else is what the OP is talking about. you need over a million karma for your legendary, which even with CS karmatrain takes a while. telling people “that’s enough, now do something else” will surely help the game in the long run, especially when “something else” is another game.

@ Sevens the lucky.2913

That’s not the reason your opinion will not be taken under consideration, the actual reason is that from your post is easy to deduct, you are lying to yourself when you say that or you have yet to find out the definition of fun.

Cheers.

I think the future of this game will be amazing and they WILL listen to what the fan base is saying when adding new content.

However, I think for now we our stuck with a game that might leave much to be desired for long term players. It’s just a matter of waiting and letting Anet do their thing.

They move slow and methodically.

Gabi.5264:

@ Sevens the lucky.2913

That’s not the reason your opinion will not be taken under consideration, the actual reason is that from your post is easy to deduct, you are lying to yourself when you say that or you have yet to find out the definition of fun.

Cheers.

You mean he’s yet to find out YOUR definition of fun.

Sevens the lucky.2913:

They have their priorities in the right place 100%
The greater good is of paramount importance
if you ignore it you get a broken game that is fun for no one at all
the economy is totally ruined and you have nothing but hackers running around.
and sorry but the game is still 100% fun for me
and yes you can call me an Anet Fanboi and whiteknight!

The economy is pretty fairly ruined and has been since launch.

Gray.9650:

Agree, In fact I risk being a broken record on the subject. One problem is that they can’t be more aggressive with downscaling since casual players, who haven’t necessarily learned movement skills too well, need to be overlevel in order to be able to do some of the content.

where would you need movement skills in lower-lvl areas? most mobs hardly do anything special and if you can easily bruteforce your way through with pure damage.

which then leads to decreased rewards due to less “challenge”, which then in turn makes everything but the cursed shore karmatrain unrewarding.

so if you done the 100% with one char there is really no reason to do anything else (thanks to crappy reward/time ratio thanks to pure grind required).

forcing people to do sth else is what the OP is talking about. you need over a million karma for your legendary, which even with CS karmatrain takes a while. telling people “that’s enough, now do something else” will surely help the game in the long run, especially when “something else” is another game.

I do agree with you – but I don’t think the solution is necessarily as straightforward as it may appear. Levelling systems have always had the consequence that they quickly make content irrelevant and to alter that is more than just a quick fix, I think.

I have suggested differential downscaling whereby you can optionally take on additional downscaling in return for increased rewards. That may be one approach that is worth looking at. Certainly making the whole game a loot playground for overpowered level 80s in full exotic gear, within the current down scaling system, doesn’t appear to be an optimal approach.

the problem is different people have different opinions on what is “fun”. I would go for systems first over the individual. One thing I know about the human condition is given enough time and repetition, they can get used to things, and seeing as gw2 is essentially a “new” system of doing MMORPGs, I think we just have to give them a bit more time and be patient.

Since they included the option to convert gold to gems, they have to keep a tight lock on how much gold you can make. This includes nerfing any possibility of speed runs, nerfing easy rewards, and nerfing easy loot.

It’s always going to be their #1 priority, since the gem store is going to be their cash cow.

@above

If that’s true, it has to be a good thing, since all the things you mentioned are exploits that ruin the economy for those that like to play the content as a game rather than an exercise in maximizing loot.

@roqoco

IMO, it should be a balancing act. Rather than solely focusing on preventing actual players from making gold, they need to fix some of these long standing bugs, work on removing bots, and fix the stupid forums already, can I get my quote button back?

Stevoli.8795:

@roqoco

IMO, it should be a balancing act. Rather than solely focusing on preventing actual players from making gold, they need to fix some of these long standing bugs, work on removing bots, and fix the stupid forums already, can I get my quote button back?

I’m sure they are doing those things too. I’m just as impatient to see them as you are, but I know it won’t be instant. Yes, the quote button disappearing is very annoying! Worked that time!