Guild Wars 2

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

Not sure why you thought otherwise

I actually saw that interview but lost the link to it. Thank you for finding it again. You’re still going to get the haters that will gripe about it though. Personally, I have no problem with Ascended, but I only plan to get it for one of my characters. The rest will stay in exotic, because I personally don’t want to go through the trouble of getting Ascended gear for 7+ characters, and don’t feel it’s necessary. I don’t do this because I feel it’s alt unfriendly, I simply don’t feel like investing the time for additional characters.

Vol.5241:

Not sure why you thought otherwise

I honestly didn’t hold any definite speculative viewpoint on the subject until an official response could come about; I didn’t want to fall into the same speculation trap that a lot of people here did and start making wild claims that could end up being false.

I know what I hoped would come about, and I’m glad it did, but I didn’t want to be all like “yeah, they’re definitely not gonna add a gear treadmill” when everyone else is shouting “zomg they’re adding a gear treadmill” here on the forums, because what if I ended up being the one that’s wrong?

All Colin or anyone can do is tell you their best thinking at the moment. Circumstances change things all the time. It’s very hard to project how things are going to go in the future.

He hopes that ascended will do it. Other’s have pointed out that the current infusions are just fine (blue), which leaves room for green, yellow, orange, and pink infusions. There have been people saying that a gentle power curve of Vp will be in the game from now on.

It’s a comforting statement, but as everyone who’s been here since before November knows, things change.

DusK.3849:

Vol.5241:

Not sure why you thought otherwise

I honestly didn’t hold any definite speculative viewpoint on the subject until an official response could come about; I didn’t want to fall into the same speculation trap that a lot of people here did and start making wild claims that could end up being false.

I know what I hoped would come about, and I’m glad it did, but I didn’t want to be all like “yeah, they’re definitely not gonna add a gear treadmill” when everyone else is shouting “zomg they’re adding a gear treadmill” here on the forums, because what if I ended up being the one that’s wrong?

Well we knew since November that they would not add another tier:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/chris-whiteside-ama-ascended-gear-crazy-town

You’re pretty much victim to the negative hivemind here on the forums that likes to spew false information just to make themselves heard.

Vol.5241:

DusK.3849:

Vol.5241:

Not sure why you thought otherwise

I honestly didn’t hold any definite speculative viewpoint on the subject until an official response could come about; I didn’t want to fall into the same speculation trap that a lot of people here did and start making wild claims that could end up being false.

I know what I hoped would come about, and I’m glad it did, but I didn’t want to be all like “yeah, they’re definitely not gonna add a gear treadmill” when everyone else is shouting “zomg they’re adding a gear treadmill” here on the forums, because what if I ended up being the one that’s wrong?

Well we knew since November that they would not add another tier:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/chris-whiteside-ama-ascended-gear-crazy-town

You’re pretty much victim to the negative hivemind here on the forums that likes to spew false information just to make themselves heard.

Yes, but as I said, there is going to continue to be VP. Also from November.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

Hi All,
Here is the reply to the second question:
E2:Ascended gears are making a lot of people worry about an ever-increasing gear treadmill. Many players did not want the exotic/legendary system to change, and they don’t like ascended gears. Was this expected? Can this be something fixed in a painless way? Can it happen?
Yes the response was definitively expected. We did not intent for the information to come out this way. Going back to my previous answer the issue is that we believe in the vertical progression system we had pre launch and that the introduction of an element into the system post launch was going to cause concern but something we believe in. That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve. This said we certainly don’t want to create a system where itemization blocks progression in the game globally and we also need to be careful of this in areas such as FotM if the primary reward isn’t available elsewhere in the game. So in short its an exciting problem but one that has been poorly communicated and handled.
And for this i take responsibility and apologies. However the future of this philosophy and the design challenges it throws up are going to lead to a pioneering world and one that we are very excited about.
So anyway i kind of went of topic here so in short. We don’t intend to have an item rarity gear treadmill, we intend for the progression for gaining these rewards to have lots of different avenues for different types of player and where possible lower no fun grind within the whole of the game.
I hope this answers that question. I will be right back.
Chris

All I’m saying with this, is that if you think this will be the end of vertical progression you are going to be disappointed. The same way I made the mistake of reading too much into early statements about the game, it would be a mistake to read too much into what they say now.

TooBz.3065:

Vol.5241:

DusK.3849:

Vol.5241:

Not sure why you thought otherwise

I honestly didn’t hold any definite speculative viewpoint on the subject until an official response could come about; I didn’t want to fall into the same speculation trap that a lot of people here did and start making wild claims that could end up being false.

I know what I hoped would come about, and I’m glad it did, but I didn’t want to be all like “yeah, they’re definitely not gonna add a gear treadmill” when everyone else is shouting “zomg they’re adding a gear treadmill” here on the forums, because what if I ended up being the one that’s wrong?

Well we knew since November that they would not add another tier:

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/chris-whiteside-ama-ascended-gear-crazy-town

You’re pretty much victim to the negative hivemind here on the forums that likes to spew false information just to make themselves heard.

Yes, but as I said, there is going to continue to be VP. Also from November.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

Hi All,
Here is the reply to the second question:
E2:Ascended gears are making a lot of people worry about an ever-increasing gear treadmill. Many players did not want the exotic/legendary system to change, and they don’t like ascended gears. Was this expected? Can this be something fixed in a painless way? Can it happen?
Yes the response was definitively expected. We did not intent for the information to come out this way. Going back to my previous answer the issue is that we believe in the vertical progression system we had pre launch and that the introduction of an element into the system post launch was going to cause concern but something we believe in. *That is why there is no plan for new Rarity Tiers of loot but there are plans to enhance or gain items within the existing rarity design whose properties continue on a shallow power curve. * This said we certainly don’t want to create a system where itemization blocks progression in the game globally and we also need to be careful of this in areas such as FotM if the primary reward isn’t available elsewhere in the game. So in short its an exciting problem but one that has been poorly communicated and handled.
And for this i take responsibility and apologies. However the future of this philosophy and the design challenges it throws up are going to lead to a pioneering world and one that we are very excited about.
So anyway i kind of went of topic here so in short. We don’t intend to have an item rarity gear treadmill, we intend for the progression for gaining these rewards to have lots of different avenues for different types of player and where possible lower no fun grind within the whole of the game.
I hope this answers that question. I will be right back.
Chris

All I’m saying with this, is that if you think this will be the end of vertical progression you are going to be disappointed. The same way I made the mistake of reading too much into early statements about the game, it would be a mistake to read too much into what they say now.

Yes, vertical progression through some other means, but not through a new tier, which is what I’m talking about. People make a whole deal about the ascended tier and how Anet will release a new one when all signs since November pointed otherwise.

They don’t intend to add a “gear treadmill” in it’s official definition, but they are effectively doing the same thing by drip feeding the ascended gear, and it’s highly probable the grind will be progressively worst with each new slot (chest will probably be last).
They can also raise the level cap to achieve the same treadmill mechanics.
Quite clever, I must say.

I am hoping what we’ll see is more horizontal progression – not better infusions, but a bigger variety of ’em. That is really what this game could benefit from, more choices once you hit max level. (not stronger choices, just more)

Vol.5241:

Yes, vertical progression through some other means, but not through a new tier, which is what I’m talking about.

Well, whether it will be ascended tier, but version 2.0 with better stats, or ascended tier, level 90, the end effect will be the same even if technically there was no tier change.

BlueZone.4236:

They don’t intend to add a “gear treadmill” in it’s official definition, but they are effectively doing the same thing by drip feeding the ascended gear, and it’s highly probable the grind will be progressively worst with each new slot (chest will probably be last).
They can also raise the level cap to achieve the same treadmill mechanics.
Quite clever, I must say.

And the better alternative is to release all ascended gear for weapons, armor and trinkets? The progressive release was intended so that the playerbase would have enough time to acquire it.

Vol.5241:

BlueZone.4236:

They don’t intend to add a “gear treadmill” in it’s official definition, but they are effectively doing the same thing by drip feeding the ascended gear, and it’s highly probable the grind will be progressively worst with each new slot (chest will probably be last).
They can also raise the level cap to achieve the same treadmill mechanics.
Quite clever, I must say.

And the better alternative is to release all ascended gear for weapons, armor and trinkets? The progressive release was intended so that the playerbase would have enough time to acquire it.

Not sure what you mean by having “enough time to acquire it”.
They’ve got time gate mechanics already, so the drip feeding only hard caps the hardcore players.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many casual players will only just finish obtaining an ascended gear (if they even finish it, that is), only for the next one to be released, ie. exactly the same feeling of a never ending treadmill for them. Assuming they don’t quit, of course.
Heck, some people still haven’t even finished getting a full set of exotics.

Remember that ascended armor is not yet with us so we have another half tier of grind to come. With any luck ascended armor can be gained through a genuine alternative to crafting (pulling an ascended item from a lucky loot bag is not a genuine alternative).

It’s also worth remembering that if the level cap is raised then there could be a repeated grind for ascended weapons at the new cap, with no new crafting ‘tier’ being introduced.

getting kinda tired of chasing around carrots..

BlueZone.4236:

Vol.5241:

BlueZone.4236:

They don’t intend to add a “gear treadmill” in it’s official definition, but they are effectively doing the same thing by drip feeding the ascended gear, and it’s highly probable the grind will be progressively worst with each new slot (chest will probably be last).
They can also raise the level cap to achieve the same treadmill mechanics.
Quite clever, I must say.

And the better alternative is to release all ascended gear for weapons, armor and trinkets? The progressive release was intended so that the playerbase would have enough time to acquire it.

Not sure what you mean by having “enough time to acquire it”.
They’ve got time gate mechanics already, so the drip feeding only hard caps the hardcore players.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many casual players will only just finish obtaining an ascended gear (if they even finish it, that is), only for the next one to be released, ie. exactly the same feeling of a never ending treadmill for them. Assuming they don’t quit, of course.
Heck, some people still haven’t even finished getting a full set of exotics.

I don’t think Anet is going to design a game catered to the bottom 1% of casual players who have played since release but probably don’t even have an exotic set. They design something as a whole for the average player while also having alternatives out there for people who are hardcore and casual.

If you’re a casual player and can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months then probably they need to reassess what kind of risk/time/reward they want from this game, and probably settle for rares/exotics. I quite frankly don’t like players who want all end-game content handed to them just for logging in.

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

My sig.

Vol.5241:

BlueZone.4236:

Vol.5241:

BlueZone.4236:

They don’t intend to add a “gear treadmill” in it’s official definition, but they are effectively doing the same thing by drip feeding the ascended gear, and it’s highly probable the grind will be progressively worst with each new slot (chest will probably be last).
They can also raise the level cap to achieve the same treadmill mechanics.
Quite clever, I must say.

And the better alternative is to release all ascended gear for weapons, armor and trinkets? The progressive release was intended so that the playerbase would have enough time to acquire it.

Not sure what you mean by having “enough time to acquire it”.
They’ve got time gate mechanics already, so the drip feeding only hard caps the hardcore players.
I wouldn’t be surprised if many casual players will only just finish obtaining an ascended gear (if they even finish it, that is), only for the next one to be released, ie. exactly the same feeling of a never ending treadmill for them. Assuming they don’t quit, of course.
Heck, some people still haven’t even finished getting a full set of exotics.

I don’t think Anet is going to design a game catered to the bottom 1% of casual players who have played since release but probably don’t even have an exotic set. They design something as a whole for the average player while also having alternatives out there for people who are hardcore and casual.

If you’re a casual player and can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months then probably they need to reassess what kind of risk/time/reward they want from this game, and probably settle for rares/exotics. I quite frankly don’t like players who want all end-game content handed to them just for logging in.

Dont worry, ANet will deliver you perfectly standardized korean grinder. It is NCSoft and they cant disapoint their eastern audience now, can they?

“If you’re a casual player and can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months then probably they need to reassess what kind of risk/time/reward they want from this game, and probably settle for rares/exotics. I quite frankly don’t like players who want all end-game content handed to them just for logging in.”

All players should have access to end content just by logging in. That’s exactly what SPvP delivers. The game is specifially designed so that players can start new characters in WvW and compete. The gap in WvW between experienced and new players is now bigger after ascended gear and that is a bad thing.

I quite frankly don’t like players who want a competitive advantage by sinking hours of play time into a game. Ascended gear is a time sink. It is not skill that collects empyreal and dragonite but sinking play time into activities that reward those trophies.

Stooperdale.3560:

I quite frankly don’t like players who want a competitive advantage by sinking hours of play time into a game.

Like spending gold on commander tags, siege equipment and upgrading keeps in wvw? Because all that comes from sinking hours of play time into the game.

Personal gear is just another resource that you get over time. It’s all fine, because the opposing server also uses upleveled people without top gear in its borderlands.

It is no load off my mind as the true issue was not addressed. Ascended gear, say, as a tier, is not a problem. It just isn’t. The problem, which became clear last November, is that they decided to add a gear grind to GW2 and they added it through the tried and true mechanism of vertical progression.

To understand VP, you only need to understand the words that make up the gaming element. Vertical: the power level of the game rises; Progression: it continually rises over time. Another way to get a handle on it is to consider Anet’s attempt to minimize the negative impact by implementing a ‘low’ power curve. The key to understanding it is to see that it is all about a curve and here the ‘Y’ axis is power and the ‘X’ axis is time.

Listen, last November they said the same thing about new tiers, i.e., that there were no further plans for new tiers of rarity. They were going to move the power curve along through upgrades to Ascended that would make it periodically more powerful. The gear grind that occurs on any power curve can move forward fine without new tiers of gear.

You can tell the people that understand the nature of the problem as they aren’t particularly excited by any specific tier and whether it will be the last tier. And, understanding the nature of a curve, they are not particularly excited around whether point ‘Y’ is materially different in terms of gameplay than point ‘X’. They know what happens when power is related to time positively. If it’s not material today it will be tomorrow.

Colin’s pronouncement at PAX is the same as Anet’s pronouncement last November. No new information and no load off my mind. The only really new information was that Ascended gear was a reactive decision post launch. Last November they maintained that it was actually planned pre-launch. But, we all knew that already.

You all know they will add gear progression in the future. It’s just part of MMOs. They gotta keep the wheels rolling. If they didn’t but say added 10 new dungeons which dropped the same stuff as the dungeons now, people would complain how the new dungeons are worthless.

Raine.1394:

It is no load off my mind as the true issue was not addressed. Ascended gear, say, as a tier, is not a problem. It just isn’t. The problem, which became clear last November, is that they decided to add a gear grind to GW2 and they added it through the tried and true mechanism of vertical progression.

To understand VP, you only need to understand the words that make up the gaming element. Vertical: the power level of the game rises; Progression: it continually rises over time. Another way to get a handle on it is to consider Anet’s attempt to minimize the negative impact by implementing a ‘low’ power curve. The key to understanding it is to see that it is all about a curve and here the ‘Y’ axis is power and the ‘X’ axis is time.

Listen, last November they said the same thing about new tiers, i.e., that there were no further plans for new tiers of rarity. They were going to move the power curve along through upgrades to Ascended that would make it periodically more powerful. The gear grind that occurs on any power curve can move forward fine without new tiers of gear.

You can tell the people that understand the nature of the problem as they aren’t particularly excited by any specific tier and whether it will be the last tier. And, understanding the nature of a curve, they are not particularly excited around whether point ‘Y’ is materially different in terms of gameplay than point ‘X’. They know what happens when power is related to time positively. If it’s not material today it will be tomorrow.

Colin’s pronouncement at PAX is the same as Anet’s pronouncement last November. No new information and no load off my mind. The only really new information was that Ascended gear was a reactive decision post launch. Last November they maintained that it was actually planned pre-launch. But, we all knew that already.

You are a god/goddess.

This is so well explained, I don’t know how this can be made anymore simple than you have made it.

• Will there be new tiers of gear after Ascended? Probably not.
  But they aren’t saying that it absolutely will not happen because in future expansions they expect to raise the level cap passed 80.

• Are there going to be increased stats on gear? Yes.
  The reason that there there isn’t an intention of new tiers of gear passed Ascended is because they intend to continue upgrading the power of Ascended. Their ‘low’ power curve. The player has to update their Ascended gear through infusions or whatever else in order to become powerful. AKA a gear grind just without a new tier of gear. But because there is no new tier of gear they are claiming there isn’t a gear grind.

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

What you mean is…….I really cant be bothered to play a game, I want anet to post me new gear.. Your the type of person who ruins these types of games, the reason wow went downhill, after The Burning Crusade, so people can get gear just for logging on

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

What you mean is…….I really cant be bothered to play a game, I want anet to post me new gear.. Your the type of person who ruins these types of games, the reason wow went downhill, after The Burning Crusade, so people can get gear just for logging on

…The hell are you babbling about? Rephrase in something that’s actually coherent English, please.

Sauzo.6821:

You all know they will add gear progression in the future. It’s just part of MMOs. They gotta keep the wheels rolling. If they didn’t but say added 10 new dungeons which dropped the same stuff as the dungeons now, people would complain how the new dungeons are worthless.

They don’t have to add gear progression in the future.

If they added 10 new dungeons they can easily come up with all sorts of drops from there. Like what, you ask?

• New Weapon Skins
• New Armor Skins
• New Precursors for new Legendary weapons/gear
• New materials required to obtain in order to craft a new Legendary weapon/gear
• New mini-pets that aren’t Gem-Store exclusive
• A way to obtain new skills for whenever they expand the skill-set of each profession

They could also update old dungeons to do the same thing. How?

When we expand in to the different parts of the world. Say when we go back to Cantha and Elona.

Dungeons in Cantha can offer offer continent exclusive weapon skins, armor skins, Legendary weapons/gear etc. etc. etc.

Same goes for when we go to Elona it can offer continent exclusive weapon skins, armor skins, blah blah blah.

Now we have three different continents where they can expand upon and constantly keep adding new things, with their imaginations not even the sky is the limit. And here is where it gets really interesting, as far as Legendary gear goes on top of the stuff that comes out per-continent we can have scavenger hunt-based Legendary gear.

By this I mean, they can add a chance drop of certain precursors in special dungeons. Then we can work in the different dungeons across Tyria, Cantha and Elona (maybe even more later on that can pop up, who knows!) in order to obtain continent exclusive materials that we need to craft this special Legendary gear.

We don’t have to limit ourselves to getting more powerful in order to ‘keep the wheels rolling’. There is so many possibilities! Limiting themselves to gradually more powerful gear and increasing the level cakitten imply lazy thinking.

Stooperdale.3560:

“If you’re a casual player and can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months then probably they need to reassess what kind of risk/time/reward they want from this game, and probably settle for rares/exotics. I quite frankly don’t like players who want all end-game content handed to them just for logging in.”

I think you just don’t realize the differences between your playing style and an “average” player. Almost no casual will be able to get an ascended weapon within 2 months. Average time to get one weapon is going to be way, way above two weeks. All those speed estimates the whole content is based on take in consideration only about top 10% of players – perhaps even less.
So, it’s not “if you’re a casual player and can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months” but “if you are a casual player then you likely can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months”.

DusK.3849:

My opinion: Big load off my mind.

Was a big load off my mind when, prior to release of this game, Colin stated there would be no gear tread mill. I thought “Awesome, like GW1 it will be horizontal (capping elites in that game) and armor appearances.”.

Turned out it was a load alright.

I put 0 faith in anything this guy says.

In 7 years, we’ll have Cantha Tier weapons.

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

I can understand the part they were not definitive on the successive tiers but when they add another content which might have more challenging experience. Then a better solution would have to be added meaning gears and such. But the problem lies how to achieve the materials. If Anet is so obsessed about getting their communities to farm all day as opposed to enjoy the rest of the content then that is definitely going to fall on their lap big time…

All I can say is looking at the past, it is likely it will make no matter what devs say now. Perhaps they will say we interpreted them wrong. Perhaps they’ll say all those words were just a plan or vision of what they intend at the time but things have changed so they had to go a different direction. I just can’t take dev statements seriously anymore, and even more so knowing they will have white knights conjuring up defenses for their sake.

I don’t mind so much the ascended tier. But I do mind the ridiculousness of its gating and requirements. I do mind if it becomes a treadmill, which despite whatever statements that can be quoted, is always a present risk. And I do mind any means to further boost the power of items, or vertical progressions, regardless of whatever sidestepping or clever wordplay they will use. Is it that hard to just make stuff we can do with our already maxed out gear instead of making content for more farming, more grinding to get higher and higher grade gear?

Irrodesia.3907:

DusK.3849:

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

What you mean is…….I really cant be bothered to play a game, I want anet to post me new gear.. Your the type of person who ruins these types of games, the reason wow went downhill, after The Burning Crusade, so people can get gear just for logging on

…The hell are you babbling about? Rephrase in something that’s actually coherent English, please.

Im sorry, i didnt realise you couldnt read

I can read fine, your post just doesn’t make any sense. “I want anet to post me new gear”?

He’s being cheeky because he is assuming a lot about you and other players.

In other words he is saying this:

“All you simply want to do, is log in to the game and be handed your gear for not doing anything. You (and others like you) are the reason that World of Warcraft went downhill after the ‘The Burning Crusade’ was released.”

I know what you’re saying DusK, it is clear he does not.

Thanks for the translation. You’d figure being a part of forum communities for nearly a decade would help me understand posts like… that.

And no, Dyno, that’s not what I’m saying. Not wanting a gear treadmill =/= “wanting anet to hand me my gear for not doing anything”.

I do have my disagreements with your points as well, Irrodesia (I read your huge post in that other thread), as well as some of the people swinging that old pre-release quote from Colin around like it’s holy scripture (they said we’d all have NPC sidekicks before the game was released too, guys). I can see where you’re all coming from, but I really don’t see ascended weapons as in any way unattainable for casual players such as myself.

If they were to put in a gear treadmill — an actual gear treadmill, as opposed to what some of you guys are trying to redefine the term to entirely — I’d have my pitchfork and would be marching right along with you, especially if that gear treadmill occurred in such a way that made it time gate content like dungeons a la WoW. But a gear treadmill is not what this is; ascended gear is (apparently, judging from the interview) merely what Anet had planned exotic gear to be on release.

EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying that people opposed to the time gating on ascended gear or even ascended gear in general should simply shut up about it; I’m merely suggesting that you guys stop strawmanning and misinterpreting the issue. ANet’s probably not going to listen to people that don’t even know what a gear treadmill actually is (yes, if you’re calling ascended gear a “gear treadmill”, you don’t know what that is), but they may listen to people who feel that the requirements and time commitment for getting an ascended weapon are too steep for casual players and pose solutions for solving that issue.

Other games gear treadmill is kind of fun. In GW2 it isn’t.

I think this is being interpreted too much as 100%. There’s too many maybe’s, if’s, should’s.
He doesn’t know. They “miscalculated” once already. And he’s not the absolute final say by himself. And he may not even be employed by them in a year or two. There’s no guarantee either way. He just gave enough of a vague answer to pacify for the time-being.
I’m not saying there will or won’t be. Just that this is not a concrete answer either way, and you won’t get a concrete answer either way because no one knows for sure.

DusK.3849:

Irrodesia.3907:

DusK.3849:

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

What you mean is…….I really cant be bothered to play a game, I want anet to post me new gear.. Your the type of person who ruins these types of games, the reason wow went downhill, after The Burning Crusade, so people can get gear just for logging on

…The hell are you babbling about? Rephrase in something that’s actually coherent English, please.

Im sorry, i didnt realise you couldnt read

I can read fine, your post just doesn’t make any sense. “I want anet to post me new gear”?

He’s being cheeky because he is assuming a lot about you and other players.

In other words he is saying this:

“All you simply want to do, is log in to the game and be handed your gear for not doing anything. You (and others like you) are the reason that World of Warcraft went downhill after the ‘The Burning Crusade’ was released.”

I know what you’re saying DusK, it is clear he does not.

Thanks for the translation. You’d figure being a part of forum communities for nearly a decade would help me understand posts like… that.

And no, Dyno, that’s not what I’m saying. Not wanting a gear treadmill =/= “wanting anet to hand me my gear for not doing anything”.

I do have my disagreements with your points as well, Irrodesia (I read your huge post in that other thread), as well as some of the people swinging that old pre-release quote from Colin around like it’s holy scripture (they said we’d all have NPC sidekicks before the game was released too, guys). I can see where you’re all coming from, but I really don’t see ascended weapons as in any way unattainable for casual players such as myself.

If they were to put in a gear treadmill — an actual gear treadmill, as opposed to what some of you guys are trying to redefine the term to entirely — I’d have my pitchfork and would be marching right along with you, especially if that gear treadmill occurred in such a way that made it time gate content like dungeons a la WoW. But a gear treadmill is not what this is; ascended gear is (apparently, judging from the interview) merely what Anet had planned exotic gear to be on release.

Just as easy as you dismiss their previous statements you can dissmiss what he said in PAX interview. Its all pretty much BS.

The way they operate they could announce new tier tomorrow.

Colin Johanson (or any other official spokesperson for ANet) could tell me the sky is blue, and I’d look out the window first before believing him/her. As far as I’m concerned, ANet’s credibility is nil.

You really can’t assume any statements are firm promises. At best you can use them as guides for the current state and intended direction of the game. Times change, people change, games change. You have to be able to change and adapt to succeed.

A mod had his feelings hurt. I’m sorry.

A(s ended)net believes themselves to be geniuses of PR, by using semantics and small details as bullet proof shields.

“It’s not gear grind! It just isn’t! There will be no new tier of gear!” they’ll say. Meanwhile, new infusions with higher stats, which require throwing more mats into the Mystic Toilet, are deployed. Meanwhile, new pieces of As garbage are still being fed to us, little by little.

“The stats! It’s a small difference! It’s not really VP!” they’ll say, all the while new As gear is slowly dripped into the game, as if we aren’t capable of addition.
“You’ll acquire it through multiple playstyles” they say, since you get As drops in multiple parts of the game. Meanwhile, As backpieces are nowhere to be found in WvW. Meanwhile, characters that don’t craft get no As weapon at all.

“You didn’t understand the context of what we said before”, they’ll say. Of course, it’s our fault. The best way to lose accountability of the things you say is to insinuate that your listeners cannot listen properly. Shift the blame.

These are the weapons of a cornered mouse. They depend on us being too stupid to see through the spin, the mental gymnastics, and the word play.

There, no bad words.

Colin Johnson timeline:

• The now infamous quote about expecting people to have best-in-slot gear upon reaching level 80.

• The now infamous quote about how he didn’t expect people to get to exotics so fast, so Ascended gear must be added.

• Don’t expect another tier for a long while.

Do you really trust him at this point?

DusK.3849:

Irrodesia.3907:

…

Thanks for the translation. You’d figure being a part of forum communities for nearly a decade would help me understand posts like… that.

And no, Dyno, that’s not what I’m saying. Not wanting a gear treadmill =/= “wanting anet to hand me my gear for not doing anything”.

I do have my disagreements with your points as well, Irrodesia (I read your huge post in that other thread), as well as some of the people swinging that old pre-release quote from Colin around like it’s holy scripture (they said we’d all have NPC sidekicks before the game was released too, guys). I can see where you’re all coming from, but I really don’t see ascended weapons as in any way unattainable for casual players such as myself.

If they were to put in a gear treadmill — an actual gear treadmill, as opposed to what some of you guys are trying to redefine the term to entirely — I’d have my pitchfork and would be marching right along with you, especially if that gear treadmill occurred in such a way that made it time gate content like dungeons a la WoW. But a gear treadmill is not what this is; ascended gear is (apparently, judging from the interview) merely what Anet had planned exotic gear to be on release.

EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying that people opposed to the time gating on ascended gear or even ascended gear in general should simply shut up about it; I’m merely suggesting that you guys stop strawmanning and misinterpreting the issue. ANet’s probably not going to listen to people that don’t even know what a gear treadmill actually is (yes, if you’re calling ascended gear a “gear treadmill”, you don’t know what that is), but they may listen to people who feel that the requirements and time commitment for getting an ascended weapon are too steep for casual players and pose solutions for solving that issue.

It’s not a “gear treadmill”, in the traditional sense. Traditionally it would mean you are constantly getting brand new gear that has more powerful stats.

They don’t intend on adding any more tiers after Ascended for one simple fact, they don’t have to.

What they plan on doing instead is, as time goes on, players will be upgrading their Ascended gear through infusions and the like for more stats. By their definition a ‘low power curve’.

So in reality it is a gear treadmill in disguise.

Does that make sense?

Irrodesia.3907:

DusK.3849:

Irrodesia.3907:

…

Thanks for the translation. You’d figure being a part of forum communities for nearly a decade would help me understand posts like… that.

And no, Dyno, that’s not what I’m saying. Not wanting a gear treadmill =/= “wanting anet to hand me my gear for not doing anything”.

I do have my disagreements with your points as well, Irrodesia (I read your huge post in that other thread), as well as some of the people swinging that old pre-release quote from Colin around like it’s holy scripture (they said we’d all have NPC sidekicks before the game was released too, guys). I can see where you’re all coming from, but I really don’t see ascended weapons as in any way unattainable for casual players such as myself.

If they were to put in a gear treadmill — an actual gear treadmill, as opposed to what some of you guys are trying to redefine the term to entirely — I’d have my pitchfork and would be marching right along with you, especially if that gear treadmill occurred in such a way that made it time gate content like dungeons a la WoW. But a gear treadmill is not what this is; ascended gear is (apparently, judging from the interview) merely what Anet had planned exotic gear to be on release.

EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying that people opposed to the time gating on ascended gear or even ascended gear in general should simply shut up about it; I’m merely suggesting that you guys stop strawmanning and misinterpreting the issue. ANet’s probably not going to listen to people that don’t even know what a gear treadmill actually is (yes, if you’re calling ascended gear a “gear treadmill”, you don’t know what that is), but they may listen to people who feel that the requirements and time commitment for getting an ascended weapon are too steep for casual players and pose solutions for solving that issue.

It’s not a “gear treadmill”, in the traditional sense. Traditionally it would mean you are constantly getting brand new gear that has more powerful stats.

They don’t intend on adding any more tiers after Ascended for one simple fact, they don’t have to.

What they plan on doing instead is, as time goes on, players will be upgrading their Ascended gear through infusions and the like for more stats. By their definition a ‘low power curve’.

So in reality it is a gear treadmill in disguise.

Does that make sense?

They have their blinders on.

They will get new gear to grind every few months (how did ANet put it, every 3-6 months like in other games) and that piece(s) of gear will take as long to get as whole tier set in other games to aquire.

When all possible avenues in ascended tier are exhausted, depending on what will they develop, it will either be time for expansion with level cap raise so it will obsolete all previous gear, and if that wont be ready new tier will be released.

What they said so far is they DONT intend to stop with vertical progression – aka gear tradmill.

DusK.3849:

Irrodesia.3907:

DusK.3849:

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Dyno.9467:

DusK.3849:

Colin Johanson explains in a PAX 2013 interview about how Ascended came about, because they miscalculated the effort that would be required to get exotics, and states that he intends to ascended to be the only additional equipment tier they add to the game.

Makes no promises, as he states “7 years from now we might turn around and put another tier in, maybe someone else will be in charge of the game”, but really drives home the point that “this should be it” as far as equipment tiers are concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Jy7CcwnfUdU#t=107

My opinion: Big load off my mind. I’m glad that they’re not planning to implement a gear treadmill, and it’s nice to see an official explanation for why ascended happened in the first place, and it’s definitely a reasonable explanation.

Discuss.

What you mean is…….I really cant be bothered to play a game, I want anet to post me new gear.. Your the type of person who ruins these types of games, the reason wow went downhill, after The Burning Crusade, so people can get gear just for logging on

…The hell are you babbling about? Rephrase in something that’s actually coherent English, please.

Im sorry, i didnt realise you couldnt read

I can read fine, your post just doesn’t make any sense. “I want anet to post me new gear”?

He’s being cheeky because he is assuming a lot about you and other players.

In other words he is saying this:

“All you simply want to do, is log in to the game and be handed your gear for not doing anything. You (and others like you) are the reason that World of Warcraft went downhill after the ‘The Burning Crusade’ was released.”

I know what you’re saying DusK, it is clear he does not.

Thanks for the translation. You’d figure being a part of forum communities for nearly a decade would help me understand posts like… that.

And no, Dyno, that’s not what I’m saying. Not wanting a gear treadmill =/= “wanting anet to hand me my gear for not doing anything”.

I do have my disagreements with your points as well, Irrodesia (I read your huge post in that other thread), as well as some of the people swinging that old pre-release quote from Colin around like it’s holy scripture (they said we’d all have NPC sidekicks before the game was released too, guys). I can see where you’re all coming from, but I really don’t see ascended weapons as in any way unattainable for casual players such as myself.

If they were to put in a gear treadmill — an actual gear treadmill, as opposed to what some of you guys are trying to redefine the term to entirely — I’d have my pitchfork and would be marching right along with you, especially if that gear treadmill occurred in such a way that made it time gate content like dungeons a la WoW. But a gear treadmill is not what this is; ascended gear is (apparently, judging from the interview) merely what Anet had planned exotic gear to be on release.

EDIT: To clarify, I’m not saying that people opposed to the time gating on ascended gear or even ascended gear in general should simply shut up about it; I’m merely suggesting that you guys stop strawmanning and misinterpreting the issue. ANet’s probably not going to listen to people that don’t even know what a gear treadmill actually is (yes, if you’re calling ascended gear a “gear treadmill”, you don’t know what that is), but they may listen to people who feel that the requirements and time commitment for getting an ascended weapon are too steep for casual players and pose solutions for solving that issue.

So what do you personally want in this game? were you think this is fantastic……….Cause I guarantee, what you like someone else wont be happy. Most players in MMO want the gear and achievements for doing nothing, and thats what i dont understand? Why play a game with nothing to play for? You must agree with that?.Anet doing 1-2 PATCHES A MONTH FOR FREE is absolutely brilliant, no other MMO would ever dream of that, cut the team some slack.

MikaHR.1978:

Irrodesia.3907:

DusK.3849:

Irrodesia.3907:

…

[snip]

It’s not a “gear treadmill”, in the traditional sense. Traditionally it would mean you are constantly getting brand new gear that has more powerful stats.

[snip]

They have their blinders on.

They will get new gear to grind every few months (how did ANet put it, every 3-6 months like in other games) and that piece(s) of gear will take as long to get as whole tier set in other games to aquire.

When all possible avenues in ascended tier are exhausted, depending on what will they develop, it will either be time for expansion with level cap raise so it will obsolete all previous gear, and if that wont be ready new tier will be released.

What they said so far is they DONT intend to stop with vertical progression – aka gear tradmill.

That’s what I’m seeing too. To make the claim that they don’t have to is as about as ignorant as making the claim that people don’t play mmos for rewards. We all know that just plain isn’t true for the genre. Second, the go on to claim that we’re all conspiracy nuts because we heard and reacted to exactly what colin said. OMG the mobs are coming with pitchforks. Simply isn’t true either.

Basically my experience with this title for the past year has been one broken promise after another. It’s like it’s in perpetual beta development on live servers except that when we report a problem it’s ignored even tho we’ve already paid for it.

I find it amazing that not only do the people with blinders on don’t see this fact, but that they don’t realize that the game doesn’t even have the basics of any ui common to mmo’s, and to top it all off, the problems they are having with major issues like combat, boss mechanics, class balance, pet AI, AOE’s being too powerful, gold farmers etc have all ALREADY been experienced and fixed in ways that this development team has completely ignored.

Some of us remember these exact same problems in other games and we remember how well these older solutions for these not-so-new problems worked despite claims from the blind on how well they see us as crazies. But when we offer them we’re somehow the bad guys for bringing it up in the first place.

tigirius.9014:

MikaHR.1978:

Irrodesia.3907:

DusK.3849:

Irrodesia.3907:

…

[snip]

It’s not a “gear treadmill”, in the traditional sense. Traditionally it would mean you are constantly getting brand new gear that has more powerful stats.

[snip]

They have their blinders on.

They will get new gear to grind every few months (how did ANet put it, every 3-6 months like in other games) and that piece(s) of gear will take as long to get as whole tier set in other games to aquire.

When all possible avenues in ascended tier are exhausted, depending on what will they develop, it will either be time for expansion with level cap raise so it will obsolete all previous gear, and if that wont be ready new tier will be released.

What they said so far is they DONT intend to stop with vertical progression – aka gear tradmill.

That’s what I’m seeing too. To make the claim that they don’t have to is as about as ignorant as making the claim that people don’t play mmos for rewards. We all know that just plain isn’t true for the genre. Second, the go on to claim that we’re all conspiracy nuts because we heard and reacted to exactly what colin said. OMG the mobs are coming with pitchforks. Simply isn’t true either.

Basically my experience with this title for the past year has been one broken promise after another. It’s like it’s in perpetual beta development on live servers except that when we report a problem it’s ignored even tho we’ve already paid for it.

I find it amazing that not only do the people with blinders on don’t see this fact, but that they don’t realize that the game doesn’t even have the basics of any ui common to mmo’s, and to top it all off, the problems they are having with major issues like combat, boss mechanics, class balance, pet AI, AOE’s being too powerful, gold farmers etc have all ALREADY been experienced and fixed in ways that this development team has completely ignored.

Some of us remember these exact same problems in other games and we remember how well these older solutions for these not-so-new problems worked despite claims from the blind on how well they see us as crazies. But when we offer them we’re somehow the bad guys for bringing it up in the first place.

Yah, more colorful explanation would be, throw skritt some shinies to collect to distract them from real problems

SHINIES!

It’s not just that they’re going with a treadmill against what we were promised. It’s that they’re putting resources into this treadmill instead of into expansions, new races, housing, and other things many of us would have and wanted to purchase a few months or a year out from launch.

I know this model works for them, or they seem quite happy with it, anyway, but that doesn’t mean all of us are happy about it. As I said in another thread, this is their business, if it works for them, okay. But it won’t stop me from expressing my disgust with their model.

Corvindi.5734:

I know this model works for them, or they seem quite happy with it, anyway, but that doesn’t mean all of us are happy about it. As I said in another thread, this is their business, if it works for them, okay. But it won’t stop me from expressing my disgust with their model.

They’re only going to be happy while the cash if flowing in….

They don’t need to add more tiers to keep the treadmill going, They can already do it with infusions or upping the level cap. It the same thing, all they’ve done is dress it up differently.

Vol.5241:

If you’re a casual player and can’t get an ascended weapon within 2 months then probably they need to reassess what kind of risk/time/reward they want from this game, and probably settle for rares/exotics. I quite frankly don’t like players who want all end-game content handed to them just for logging in.

WTF?? You mean it is wrong for people playing a kitten game to expect to be able to actually play it on even ground until they’ve “earned” their way there? If I go to the park to play basketball am I wrong to expect to be able to play anyone else there without handicap? If I join a team to play softball should I be required to use a hammer handle instead of a bat until I’ve played a certain number of innings? ANet HEAVILY promoted GW2 as being an anti-grind game with a shallow path to endgame content, but they have backpedaled on almost every commitment they made to the point that player sentiment, both in game and on these forums, has dramatically changed in the last few months. That’s not a case of chronic whiners … that’s the result of players who previously had hope for the game becoming disenchanted.

I’ve played this game for over a year and I EXACTLY want end game content handed to me just for logging in.

Corvindi.5734:

It’s not just that they’re going with a treadmill against what we were promised. It’s that they’re putting resources into this treadmill instead of into expansions, new races, housing, and other things many of us would have and wanted to purchase a few months or a year out from launch.

I know this model works for them, or they seem quite happy with it, anyway, but that doesn’t mean all of us are happy about it. As I said in another thread, this is their business, if it works for them, okay. But it won’t stop me from expressing my disgust with their model.

One of the things that I mentioned early on as problematic was the cost of managing VP. I don’t believe they had an inkling about what they were taking on. They have had to revamp all the reward systems around it (just consider the role of the laurel). And, what about all the other ‘costs’ that we have seen. Is GW2 an alt-friendly game? Used to be until they introduced vertical progression. What I mean is that not all costs are simply programming time or dollars, but they are real ‘costs’ non-the-less. VP is cheap in one way as an incentive to play in that you are just inflating numbers on a character sheet, but that doesn’t mean thakittencomes at no cost. And, the opportunity cost of VP is also around giving up the potential for what this game could have been. It actually was about an idea whose time had come.