Guild Wars 2

Since Guild Wars 2 always tried to be different in terms of questing, it’s pretty disappointing to see the evolution in some parts of the game. Personally I didn’t mind the introduction of repeatable hearts in the new season 3 maps. It’s been the decision to hook them up to certain achievements or “quests” that bugged me.

When a quest consists of nothing but doing the same boring heart quests every day over and over for a million times… I’m talking about the druid runestone backpack you can get in Draconis Mons in particular. A nice skin (ascended backpiece) you can earn while playing the game. Sounds great.

What the quest would look like in other games: In a small village you heard a story of a powerful stone. The stone once belonged to [name]. It’s been destroyed in the battle of [region]. Some warriors gathered the remaining pieces which still granted them enormous power. They say if you put the pieces together, you’ll be as powerful as the great [name] again. Task: find the warriors, take the pieces and restore the magical stone. – You’ll probably find them in some dungeons as challenging bosses. However, you’ll have to attune yourself to certain elements/… in order to defeat them. Get the attunement in some side quests.

What GW2 did:
Tier 1:

• Buy a druid runestone fragment from the unbound Magic collector.
  Wha… Where did you get that? Why are you selling it? What should I do with it?
• Do 4 heart quests. Buy 4 other runestone fragments from heart vendors
  What a coincidence that every heart vendor finds a druid runestone fragment each day.
• Gather flowers and bring them to some druids.
  Be.. because druids like flowers. Yes. everyone loves flowers!

Tier 2:
Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. -> Collect 3×5=15 runestone fragments. Kill some of the druids’ friends and combine their elements with the runestones. Also bring the druids more flowers. EVERYONE LOVES FLOWERS!

Tier 3:
Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Collect 5×5=25 runestone fragments. Kill the bosses all around the map and combine their elements with the runestones. Give the druid lodestones. Also: MORE FLOWERS! And plant a seed.

Tier 4:
Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Do 4 heart quests. Wait 1 day. Collect 7×5=35 runestone fragments. Kill a few bosses all around the map. Kill other enemies to get their elements. Combine them with the runestones. Give the druid even more lodestones. Also: UNLIMITED FLOWERRRRRR! Plant tons of seeds everywhere. Congratulations.

You have to do the same boring, never ending heart quests 16×4=64 times. Gather 0/x. Kill 0/x. 64 times. Plus, it’s time gated. 1 runestone a day. It’s the most annoying, most boring I’ve ever done in a game. Yes, you’re not forced to do it. But if you want to get the backpack, you have to do it. All I’m asking for is a bit more creativity and variety.

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

While I disagree it’s the most boring quest ever, it’s not exactly thrilling.

Doing hearts over and over until you get what you need simply isn’t fun for me.

Vayne.8563:

Doing hearts …simply isn’t fun for me.

Fixed that for… me

Actually funnily enough these are some of the more interestimg hearts iv seen in the game. Sadly i agree, even tho i asked for replayability 16 days of just doing dailies kills it hard. Man and they did it so much better with the luminecent armor. At least the quest for the druid stone has some great lore.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

Lock the repetitiveness behind something that makes you some decent profit. Running 2 or 3 time frac 40 will give me the same karma the hearts gave me… The repetitiveness of the armor in season 2 was locked behind the meta which made you a nice income each time you choose to do it.

Yes it is timegated… So what, I’ve been playing this game for 4.5 years now thats roughly 1100 days…. And I should be worried it takes 1 or 2 weeks to make an item?

I need to do dailies anyways, now I have a use for the tokens the map gives me and I get a nice ascended backpiece nearly free…. The only major cost is the unbound magic which is fixed easily by a tour of bitterfrost frontier.

If you do not want to spend time on a game, then maybe this is a basic problem… but it’s certainly not the fault of the developers… A game IS a timesink.
If you want a ascneded backpiece instantly I’d suggest you forge one.

Else do the collection, it might take one or 2 months, maybe, but no probelms, you’ll finish it eventually

and 6 of each lodestones ahem. If they want to make you w8 at least 16 days to get it they could at least make it more profitable for you being there on the map.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

repeating content =/= achievements telling you to do 64 x the same starter area hearts over and over again.
HoT maps managed to keep players busy completely without heart quests. There’s no way that these types of achievements are the only possibility to keep the players in the map. Just think of Silverwastes, people played this map for a long time just because the meta-event was fun and rewarding.

If they have problems to keep people playing in the new maps they didn’t plan the current season properly. No one told them to design tons of generic maps with almost no other purpose than farming blood rubys, petrified wood, jade shards, winterberries and druid runestones.

i can understand the devs not wanting another silverwastes but it provided content and meta maps are just more interesting.

Tekey.7946:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

repeating content =/= achievements telling you to do 64 x the same starter area hearts.
HoT maps managed to keep players busy completely without heart quests. There’s no way that these types of achievements are the only possibility to keep the players in the map. Just think of Silverwastes, people played this map for a long time just because the meta-event was fun and rewarding.

If they have problems to keep people playing in the new maps they didn’t plan the current season properly. No one told them to design tons of generic maps that have almost no other purpose than farming blood rubys, petrified wood, jade shards, winterberries and druid runestones.

I am unsure; is your idea a copy of launch Heart of Thorns maps? I thought players weren’t happy with the original Heart of Thorns maps; at least, there were a lot of threads full of laments regarding those maps.

I don’t know, maybe the Devs tried to come up with something different than those maps to try to placate the playerbase. /shrug

Regardless, no matter what the Devs do, someone won’t be pleased.

The alternative is to just but one fragment for 1000 unbound magic every day. It takes much longer in real time but takes no playing time, assuming you have enough unbound magic.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I am unsure; is your idea a copy of launch Heart of Thorns maps? I thought players weren’t happy with the original Heart of Thorns maps; at least, there were a lot of threads full of laments regarding those maps.

IIRC, people were mainly upset about the difficulty (of enemies) and navigation in the HoT maps. Plus the Dragon’s Stand incident that happened to be a giant meta which only started every 2-3 hours. But we’re talking about the reasons to play these maps right now.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t know, maybe the Devs tried to come up with something different than those maps to try to placate the playerbase. /shrug

Regardless, no matter what the Devs do, someone won’t be pleased.

I don’t think that anyone begged for an achievement like that. Same with an apple a day.

Well, I guess those players that do the ‘Dailies’ that include the Renown Hearts in those newer maps are at an advantage, then. Now they are rewarded with more than the Daily Chest; they are working toward another reward.

As before, if one finds it too ‘boring’, one does not need to complete the ‘quest’ in 16 days. Spend a year doing a Renown Heart 16 times. Spend 2 years. I’m sure I’ve done some of the Renown Hearts in this game more than 16 times with all my characters. Even just with one character. There’s no inherent rush, other than impatience.

I will probably finish this ‘quest’ with my guildie. He only plays on Fridays and Saturdays for a couple of hours. Thus, it will take us many months to complete. No biggie.

Good luck.

And, of course, most people who have reached that map probably already have an ascended back pack. If they haven’t then they haven’t paid enough attention to the vendors on the preceding maps where you can just buy them instantly (e.g. the Lava Skull Backpack: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lava_Skull_Backpack).

Tekey.7946:

What the quest would look like in other games:

It’d be the same in other MMOs, as a reputation grind.

I understand the point. Even if I acknowledge it’s “good” for the map’s replayability, it truly feels artificial. What bothers me the most is hearts are boring as hell. I remember that manifesto when they said they wouldn’t do NPC’s with an arrow overhead that’d send you kill 15 rats and fetch 10 apples. At least, in those games, it’s the beginner’s quests (and not the latest map’s) and you more or less have some story behind those apples. Here, it’s mostly “secure the position and bother the bad guys”. So it consists in

1. Doing the wardbough’s event chain
2. Find an appropriate spider’s spawn spot
3. Find an appropriate mercenary’s spawn spot
4. Do the power suit’s event chain

Good thing : it’s a matter of 45 min when you’re lucky. But it truly lacks some epicness.

Now, if you consider bloodstone fen, ember bay and bitterfrost frontier, there was a reason to go back and farm them : ascended trinkets. Lake Doric and Draconis lack that reason because their trinkets don’t have more “value”. Lake Doric has the seraph stats things that may need some farming though.

So, I’m also doing that backpack “quest” with no passion, but I’m interested in the lore, and I don’t have very much better to do.

zealex.9410:

i can understand the devs not wanting another silverwastes but it provided content and meta maps are just more interesting.

For you maybe.

Other people really dislike meta maps and throughout Season 2 and Hot kept on and on asking Anet to bring back hearts in new maps and/or make the existing hearts repeatable. Yes, really.

The obvious solution is to offer both types of maps, which Anet have done. But then we run into this problem, where people who enjoy one type of map want a reward from the other type.

How do you solve that? Make every item available in a number of ways? Then we’re back to complaints about no new items, lazy development re-using existing content, and many people would most likely pick whichever was quickest/easiest even if they find it boring…or complain that they’re “forced” to grind the slow way if they can’t or don’t want to do it.

In that respect we already have more choice than most games. In many MMOs the backpack from the new maps collection would be the best backpack in the game – and therefore everyone would have to get it in order to keep up with the new content. In GW2 you only need to get it if you want that skin, otherwise you can get any other ascended backpack.

Personally I prefer maps with big meta events, even though I rarely have time to play through the entire thing. But I accept that they don’t suit everyone and I’m glad my friends and guild mates who hate doing meta events have new maps they enjoy. Some of them have been doing the hearts in at least 1 season 3 map every day…not for an item, just because it’s what they find fun. I think they’re mad, but they’d say the same about me.

Tekey.7946:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I am unsure; is your idea a copy of launch Heart of Thorns maps? I thought players weren’t happy with the original Heart of Thorns maps; at least, there were a lot of threads full of laments regarding those maps.

IIRC, people were mainly upset about the difficulty (of enemies) and navigation in the HoT maps. Plus the Dragon’s Stand incident that happened to be a giant meta which only started every 2-3 hours. But we’re talking about the reasons to play these maps right now.

There were as much complains about the map rewards being locked behind the main metaevent, and the smaller events up until that point giving next to nothing. Which, coupled with the fact that all those metas are on a fixed 2-hour shedule, turned it into 4x DS problem. That was the main thing the April HoT patch attempted to fix (partially, anyway).

I’m quite sure that turning new LS maps into huge metaevent chains would end exactly as bad.

Danikat.8537:

In that respect we already have more choice than most games. In many MMOs the backpack from the new maps collection would be the best backpack in the game – and therefore everyone would have to get it in order to keep up with the new content. In GW2 you only need to get it if you want that skin, otherwise you can get any other ascended backpack.

Exactly, but that’s the point of Fashion Wars 2. Because there is no gear grind in terms of stats, you’ll get the new skin that’s been released with the map. Saying you don’t need that skin and you don’t have to grind these heart quests (you might as well get another backpack) is like saying you don’t need that better armor piece because you could defeat the boss with your current stats as well. It just takes longer, is more challenging, whatever. Anyways, I simply criticized the lack of variety and creativity of this quest in particular. Every active player could think of a better quest than “do the heart quests 64 times”.

Im like the 9th day in and this is jsut not fun, im jsut doing it for the backpiece not even sure the lore on tier 4 will be worth it i can understand timegate but 16 days of the same 4 hearts is just bad design.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

I agree with the OP 100%. It’s not about “doing it faster”, it’s about the fun factor, about exciting and epic story-telling, about adventure.

Seriously…4 hearts a day and you are whinning? Go play a Korean MMO. You don’t even understand the word grind until you’ve had to do the same quest 1000 times in order to get a weapon.
By comparison, this isn’t even a blip on the radar.

Sure it isn’t “fun” for many, but it also isn’t “fun” for a short period than it is done.

Be bold, skip a day of hearts or don’t buy the UM fragment at all, I mean it’s your achievement, why pay for it?

I’ve been enjoying it myself, but it’s a ‘bit’ much having to do all 4 hearts every day. Maybe if it were 3 pieces to make the item, and you could choose to buy the magic one and then complete any 2 of the 4 hearts. That way you could picks ones that are easiest for you to do, or mix them up so you don’t do the same ones every day. Or, if you want to not burn through your magic, and are trying to save up for other things, you could do 3 hearts each day and not buy the magic one.

Haha.. I’m not entirely impress with thus too initially but I’m OK with it. It gives me something to do daily lol. And a free backpack (not that I need this backpack) but ya.. Something to do

Anet did not put traditional quests in the game and that has been a problem even from before the game launched. Initially there where only events, but from the alpha or beta it became known that that did not work so well. So they added in hearths. But still events and hearths are not really able to replace traditional quests for some things.

Over the years we did see multiple tries at adding something to the game (Like collections) that was supposed to make up for the lack of traditional quests, without putting in traditional quests. This might be another attempt, I have no idea. But so far none of them where really able to replace traditional quests.

Having a nice reward at the end of this ‘quest’ is still a step in the correct direction. But it looks like it still has it’s issues when compared to a traditional quest.

Quests are great ways to tell little stories, you learn to know npc’s, learn about their history. It is a way to bound you to the world.

They are probably reluctant to put in traditional quest because they don’t want the game to look to much as a traditional MMORPG.

Nonetheless, I do think not having traditional quests is one of the bigger issues of this game and they should seriously consider putting them in.

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

No, people were upset to see that type of quest in GW2. I can remember people saying there’s no difference to other generic MMORPG starter quests. Many other games have some pretty interesting story lines in quests that might or might not include grind. But Anet decided to implement a ridiculous “gather 0/50 apples and bring them over there” quest with absolutely no story at all.

The same with the druid runestone. You’ll hear some lines of the druid but doing the same freaking starter heart quests 64 times has absolutely no value in terms of storytelling or gameplay. It’s just insulting, that’s how bad it is. 64 times: kill 0/30 mercenaries. kill 0/30 spiders. kill 0/30 inquest researchers. Wow. That’s the best game design I’ve ever seen.

A game that claims to be different, but introduces you to the most ridiculous, never ending tasks in its end game PVE zones, that’s what GW2 is right now. If that’s the direction Anet chose, it’s really, really sad to see what “Guild Wars” 2 has become – I don’t even want to call it Guild Wars anymore. And I hope for everyone that the next expansion will bring some fresh air.

Runiir.6425:

Seriously…4 hearts a day and you are whinning? Go play a Korean MMO. You don’t even understand the word grind until you’ve had to do the same quest 1000 times in order to get a weapon.
By comparison, this isn’t even a blip on the radar.

Sure it isn’t “fun” for many, but it also isn’t “fun” for a short period than it is done.

4 hearts per day for 16 days

At least be factual; it’s not the same Renown Heart 64 times. It’s 4 Renown Hearts 16 times each. Again, if found boring, or too repetitive, don’t do them 16 days in a row.

Or, better yet, forego the Backpack and skin, if it causes this much distress.

Good luck.

Not as bad as the apple collection at Ember.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least be factual; it’s not the same Renown Heart 64 times. It’s 4 Renown Hearts 16 times each. Again, if found boring, or too repetitive, don’t do them 16 days in a row.

Or, better yet, forego the Backpack and skin, if it causes this much distress.

Good luck.

Is there really that much difference between killing inquest researchers, spiders, pocket raptors and mercenaries? It’s 64 heart quests in total, you don’t have to split the number.

It doesn’t make a difference to me if I complete it in 2 weeks or 2 months, it’s the same thing over and over again. And that’s actually not a personal complaint but criticism towards the designers who created that quest, so we won’t see it again in future releases. They’ve got the chance to think of something different, more interesting next time.

I can now understand how the ap hunters feels when ppl tell them “if you dont like how this achievement is aquired then dont go for it”

Tekey.7946:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

No, people were upset to see that type of quest in GW2. I can remember people saying there’s no difference to other generic MMORPG starter quests. Many other games have some pretty interesting story lines in quests that might or might not include grind. But Anet decided to implement a ridiculous “gather 0/50 apples and bring them over there” quest with absolutely no story at all.

The same with the druid runestone. You’ll hear some lines of the druid but doing the same freaking starter heart quest 64 times has absolutely no value in terms of storytelling or gameplay. It’s just insulting, that’s how bad it is. 64 times: kill 0/30 mercenaries. kill 0/30 spiders. kill 0/30 inquest researchers. Wow. That’s the best game design I’ve ever seen.

A game that claims to be different, but introduces you to the most ridiculous, never ending tasks in its end game PVE zones, that’s what GW2 is right now. If that’s the direction Anet chose, it’s really, really sad to see what “Guild Wars” 2 has become – I don’t even want to call it Guild Wars anymore. And I hope for everyone that the next expansion will bring some fresh air.

This post states, and I quote, “the same freaking starter heart quest 64 times”. It’s not the first time, either. Not 4 Renown Hearts, but the same heart 64 times.

It’s a bit like the exaggeration when saying one must do the same Renown Heart 303 times to get World Map Completion.

Perhaps, the Devs would appreciate your ideas on how, exactly, to create a quest that keeps players in the map with no repetition, and does not take years to create.

Regardless, good luck with your suggestion.

Blude.6812:

Not as bad as the apple collection at Ember.

Gotta agree with Blude — while Hungry Hal involved only a single fetch & carry, the achievement required 50 separate runs. At least with this one, you end up with several back items, including an interesting skin.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

This post states, and I quote, “the same freaking starter heart quest 64 times”. It’s not the first time, either. Not 4 Renown Hearts, but the same heart 64 times.

I guess that’s just a missing letter there, it should say heart quests just like my initial post:

Tekey.7946:

When a quest consists of nothing but doing the same boring heart quests every day over and over for a million times…

or any other post:

Tekey.7946:

Every active player could think of a better quest than “do the heart quests 64 times”.

However, thanks for pointing it out, I’ll correct it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Perhaps, the Devs would appreciate your ideas on how, exactly, to create a quest that keeps players in the map with no repetition, and does not take years to create.

Regardless, good luck with your suggestion.

I guess they just have to take a look at their prequel Guild Wars 1 since it had some great main quests that branched out into several side quests which let people dive into the world and forget about time and everything else. These quests did tell real stories. GW2 scrapped the story part almost completely with regards to the heart quests. They were just an introduction to events, exclusively used in starter areas to guide new players. Now they decided to bring them back in their end game PVE zones. Alright, as long as they’re optional why not, some people might like them. But why would they ignore the potential of the druid stone quest and just hook it up to a crazy amount of heart quests? Remember that this quest is not the only possibility for them to keep players in the map. It can be an additional part of the system, but if is the only purpose of the map, it’ll be abandoned pretty soon. The reason for a quest shouldn’t be “keep them playing in a certain map for 16 days”.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Blude.6812:

Not as bad as the apple collection at Ember.

Gotta agree with Blude — while Hungry Hal involved only a single fetch & carry, the achievement required 50 separate runs. At least with this one, you end up with several back items, including an interesting skin.

The reward is great, but that doesn’t change the awful design of the quest. I just hope that they’re able to think of something else in the future. There are plenty of quests in other games that might also include grinding, but at least they’re part of a great story that makes up for some grind. Heart quests however have no value for me, so why should I keep playing after I played through one hour of living story every 2-3 months.

Hearts were brought back because players requested them.

I wouldn’t go as far as to call an achievement a quest no more than I would call maxing a GW1 title a quest.

As for “stories” attached to hearts, you most often get more details about what you’re doing when you talk to the heart NPC.

I agree with the OP. It is an unecessarily grindy achievment. I felt the first part was good— going into the world, revisiting other druids. In that way, it was like the regrowing-Caladbolg quests. We revisited places from our past and faced old heros. It felt good, heroic, epic, and nostalgiac. Even collecting stuff from DM map events is fine, it encourages folks to do them and connect with the druids. The repetive hearts, though…

In contrast, grinding those four map hearts for the druid backpiece over and over got old FAST. I’m trying to make myself do at least one per day and I’m not always succeeding. I’ll eat my veggies to get dessert, but I don’t want piles of the same veggies at every single meal for more than two weeks.

Ayrilana.1396:

Hearts were brought back because players requested them.

I wouldn’t go as far as to call an achievement a quest no more than I would call maxing a GW1 title a quest.

As for “stories” attached to hearts, you most often get more details about what you’re doing when you talk to the heart NPC.

I don’t remember many players requesting these hearts. I do remember however (when they were announced) that many people expected them to be different to starter area hearts. They would have accepted them if Anet improved the implementation. But they’re just exactly the same as the ones in lvl 1-15 zones.

So if those achievements are not equal to quests, where’s the replacement of traditional quests in GW2? Events are fast-paced, shallow tasks (Escort the Vigil squad to the ancient ruins. Kill the champion webby mother. Repel the aggressive mercenaries.) which obviously can’t tell a story like GW1 quests did. Living Story instances are more like cooperative missions. Something’s missing.

As you said, the heart vendors can tell you a little more about the region or the people around, but most of the time it’s basically a further description of the tasks. Story quests would contain characters, plot and one’s own initiative just like the living story does.

Tekey.7946:

I don’t remember many players requesting these hearts. I do remember however (when they were announced) that many people expected them to be different to starter area hearts. They would have accepted them if Anet improved the implementation. But they’re just exactly the same as the ones in lvl 1-15 zones.

It was a small group of players on the forums like most things you see suggested for or complained about. They’re like all hearts in the game and not just the lvl 1-15 zones.

Tekey.7946:

So if those achievements are not equal to quests, where’s the replacement of traditional quests in GW2? Events are fast-paced, shallow tasks (Escort the Vigil squad to the ancient ruins. Kill the champion webby mother. Repel the aggressive mercenaries.) which obviously can’t tell a story like GW1 quests did. Living Story instances are more like cooperative missions. Something’s missing.

GW2 never had quests as there have only been events or hearts. Events do tell a story but usually if they’re part of a chain such as ‘Escort the Vigil squad to the ancient ruins’. Let’s also not forget that many of GW1 quests were shallow tasks that were nothing more than go here or fetch this for the most part. Living story instances are like GW1 missions.

Be careful not to look at GW1 with rose-colored glasses. This is what quite a number of players are doing who praise GW1 and criticize GW2. They don’t realize that people complained just as often and about similar things during the time of GW1. I’m pretty sure that if they released GW3, people would be praising this game like they do GW1.

Tekey.7946:

As you said, the heart vendors can tell you a little more about the region or the people around, but most of the time it’s basically a further description of the tasks. Story quests would contain characters, plot and one’s own initiative just like the living story does.

Which is no different that many quest NPC dialogues in other games. What you’re wanting done just isn’t something you see often in games. Even the quests in the highly acclaimed Elder Scroll console games don’t do this. Do WoW quests even do what you’re thinking should be done?

Tekey.7946:

Djinn.9245:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

At least there’s guaranteed progression. Could be RNG like some certain Spoons that can take forever to drop.

What would be your idea to keep players in a particular map for a couple of weeks without repeating content?

One thought: Don’t try to attain the backpack in just 16 days. Spread it out over 2 or 3 months so it does not seem quite so repetitive.

Pro-tip: Never try key-running.

Good luck.

I completely agree. It’s like “Hungry Hal” – everyone complained what a grind it was to run back and forth with one apple 50 times in a row. But no one said you had to do it 50 times in a row. When I feel like going back to that map, I run Hal 2 or 3 apples. Eventually I’ll have it done. I see no benefit in having it done faster.

No, people were upset to see that type of quest in GW2. I can remember people saying there’s no difference to other generic MMORPG starter quests. Many other games have some pretty interesting story lines in quests that might or might not include grind. But Anet decided to implement a ridiculous “gather 0/50 apples and bring them over there” quest with absolutely no story at all.

The same with the druid runestone. You’ll hear some lines of the druid but doing the same freaking starter heart quests 64 times has absolutely no value in terms of storytelling or gameplay. It’s just insulting, that’s how bad it is. 64 times: kill 0/30 mercenaries. kill 0/30 spiders. kill 0/30 inquest researchers. Wow. That’s the best game design I’ve ever seen.

A game that claims to be different, but introduces you to the most ridiculous, never ending tasks in its end game PVE zones, that’s what GW2 is right now. If that’s the direction Anet chose, it’s really, really sad to see what “Guild Wars” 2 has become – I don’t even want to call it Guild Wars anymore. And I hope for everyone that the next expansion will bring some fresh air.

yeah this is a problem i noticed with anet development, they pick big numbers, to reach their goals, with very little art, or game design thrown in. It often comes across as pure busywork.

we want you guys on this map for the next 100 days, so we created the 100 day map reward, we re you kill stuff for an hour for 100 days.

its so blatant, obvious and uninspired

The best thing about stupid quests like this is, don’t do them.

Tekey.7946:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Blude.6812:

Not as bad as the apple collection at Ember.

Gotta agree with Blude — while Hungry Hal involved only a single fetch & carry, the achievement required 50 separate runs. At least with this one, you end up with several back items, including an interesting skin.

The reward is great, but that doesn’t change the awful design of the quest. I just hope that they’re able to think of something else in the future. There are plenty of quests in other games that might also include grinding, but at least they’re part of a great story that makes up for some grind. Heart quests however have no value for me, so why should I keep playing after I played through one hour of living story every 2-3 months.

OP claimed “most boring” — I’m saying it’s barely in my top 10. Boring? yes. Worst? no.

You know, there has been ‘Do 4 Renown Hearts’ per day for some time now. Not a lot of complaints. Except now, there’s a special reward attached, after a couple of weeks of doing it; I’d say that’s an improvement.

Still, if it is so very onerous, the reward can’t be worth doing. Thus, just don’t do it. The metrics will be all that ArenaNet needs.

Ayrilana.1396:

GW2 never had quests as there have only been events or hearts. Events do tell a story but usually if they’re part of a chain such as ‘Escort the Vigil squad to the ancient ruins’.

What story do they tell? Let’s take this event chain as an example: Escort the Vigil squad to the ancient ruins. Pocket raptors appear. Kill them. More pocket raptors appear. Kill them. Rolling devils appear. Kill them. Some sarcastic remarks about these enemies: “Oh look, new friends!”. Vigil Marksman: I sense some sort of druidic magic. Druids appear. Next event: Kill the druids. Next event: A spirit of nature appears. Kill it. After it’s been defeated it tells you to leave the place. You leave.

Ayrilana.1396:

Let’s also not forget that many of GW1 quests were shallow tasks that were nothing more than go here or fetch this for the most part. Living story instances are like GW1 missions.

Be careful not to look at GW1 with rose-colored glasses. This is what quite a number of players are doing who praise GW1 and criticize GW2. They don’t realize that people complained just as often and about similar things during the time of GW1. I’m pretty sure that if they released GW3, people would be praising this game like they do GW1.

“Rose-colored glasses.” Since there were some content droughts in GW2, I jumped back into Guild Wars 1 now and then, did some quests, explored places I’ve never seen before and so on. There are tons of story lines being told. Small ones like helping out someone find their missing relatives and larger quests that either branch out or continue afterwards. Earlier I said something’s missing and I think now I know what I meant to say:

The core game of GW2 had a “personal story”. Human: You’re poor, living on the streets, you’re trying to find out who you are, you may not even know your parents. All the decisions you can do when you create your character. After the lvl 30-40 story instances, everything merges with the Zhaitan story (cooperative missions in GW1). After defeating Zhaitan we’ve never come back to those type of quests. Your character is just a nameless commander that kills Elder Dragons. Charr characters did not report back to their legions, the Asura never went back to Rata Sum. All of our characters have no life at all. We can’t make decisions on our own, would we like to cooperate with bandits or seperatists? Or would we rather meet out noble friends in Divinity’s Reach? Maybe there are some dodgy intrigues going on. What if our Charr character is still sceptical towards humans and we’ll see some quests trying to convince him not to be? Maybe he would change, maybe it would fail completely and he’ll hate the human race even more. That would have been an improvement over Guild Wars 1’s “one dimensional” quests (no decisions except for yes/no).

All of that has been pushed away by the Living Story and HoT (cooperative missions). There are no personal quests, our character has no personality at all. There’s no way we could make decisions and identify ourselves with our characters. That’s a main aspect of storytelling, no matter if it’s movies or even more games. They completely forgot about our characters. There’s more than just Elder Dragons in Tyria.

Ayrilana.1396:

Which is no different that many quest NPC dialogues in other games. What you’re wanting done just isn’t something you see often in games. Even the quests in the highly acclaimed Elder Scroll console games don’t do this. Do WoW quests even do what you’re thinking should be done?

Maybe you also tried out Star Wars The Old Republic at some point. I didn’t play it much but even the quests at the beginning had the option to choose what to do. Elder Scrolls Online did it as well. You’ve captured a villain, do you let him go and cooperate with him, do you kill him or do you just arrest him? Do you lie to someone at some point? Does it have an effect on the story? What’s the personality of your character really like?
That’s a pretty interesting part of a “Massively Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING Game”. And it’s missing completely in GW2. It’s something heart quests, events and even Living Story will never tell you about.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You know, there has been ‘Do 4 Renown Hearts’ per day for some time now. Not a lot of complaints. Except now, there’s a special reward attached, after a couple of weeks of doing it; I’d say that’s an improvement.

Still, if it is so very onerous, the reward can’t be worth doing. Thus, just don’t do it. The metrics will be all that ArenaNet needs.

Not sure this works, any more than I"m sure it works for raids. I’m doing the collection and I’m not enjoying it. It doesn’t make me happy to play the game. It’s not interesting. So if I do it and like the game less, no big deal…unless that happens a lot.

When it starts happening more and more, people leave the game.

The metrics and show 80% of the players who play the zone are making the backpack. But it doesn’t mean it’s good for the game long term. In this case I don’t think it is.

Tekey.7946:

What story do they tell? Let’s take this event chain as an example: Escort the Vigil squad to the ancient ruins. Pocket raptors appear. Kill them. More pocket raptors appear. Kill them. Rolling devils appear. Kill them. Some sarcastic remarks about these enemies: “Oh look, new friends!”. Vigil Marksman: I sense some sort of druidic magic. Druids appear. Next event: Kill the druids. Next event: A spirit of nature appears. Kill it. After it’s been defeated it tells you to leave the place. You leave.

Listen to and/or read the text from the NPC’s. Pay attention to what it is that you’re doing for the event. For that particular event, it helps to set things up if you’re there before the escort actually starts.

Tekey.7946:

“Rose-colored glasses.” Since there were some content droughts in GW2, I jumped back into Guild Wars 1 now and then, did some quests, explored places I’ve never seen before and so on. There are tons of story lines being told. Small ones like helping out someone find their missing relatives and larger quests that either branch out or continue afterwards.

Just like there are with events and a lot of hearts.

Tekey.7946:

Earlier I said something’s missing and I think now I know what I meant to say:

The core game of GW2 had a “personal story”. Human: You’re poor, living on the streets, you’re trying to find out who you are, you may not even know your parents. All the decisions you can do when you create your character. After the lvl 30-40 story instances, everything merges with the Zhaitan story (cooperative missions in GW1). After defeating Zhaitan we’ve never come back to those type of quests. Your character is just a nameless commander that kills Elder Dragons. Charr characters did not report back to their legions, the Asura never went back to Rata Sum. All of our characters have no life at all. We can’t make decisions on our own, would we like to cooperate with bandits or seperatists? Or would we rather meet out noble friends in Divinity’s Reach? Maybe there are some dodgy intrigues going on. What if our Charr character is still sceptical towards humans and we’ll see some quests trying to convince him not to be? Maybe he would change, maybe it would fail completely and he’ll hate the human race even more. That would have been an improvement over Guild Wars 1’s “one dimensional” quests (no decisions except for yes/no).

All of that has been pushed away by the Living Story and HoT (cooperative missions). There are no personal quests, our character has no personality at all. There’s no way we could make decisions and identify ourselves with our characters. That’s a main aspect of storytelling, no matter if it’s movies or even more games. They completely forgot about our characters. There’s more than just Elder Dragons in Tyria.

I don’t see why you stated that it’s at level 30 that the personal story shifts to Zhaitan and seem to make it at that point that it becomes like GW1’s cooperative missions. They’re the same from the beginning.

The character is far from nameless. It helps to follow the story from the beginning which would answer a lot of what you said. Not everything needs to be spelled out either.

Tekey.7946:

Maybe you also tried out Star Wars The Old Republic at some point. I didn’t play it much but even the quests at the beginning had the option to choose what to do. Elder Scrolls Online did it as well. You’ve captured a villain, do you let him go and cooperate with him, do you kill him or do you just arrest him? Do you lie to someone at some point? Does it have an effect on the story? What’s the personality of your character really like?
That’s a pretty interesting part of a “Massively Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING Game”. And it’s missing completely in GW2. It’s something heart quests, events and even Living Story will never tell you about.

Adding various paths for the living story requires more resources and adds much more complexity. You’re more likely to see that with expansion stories which they did do.

@Ayrilana I think you’re not even trying to understand what I’m saying. You might want to try to think outside the box, re-read it, put it into context with everything and try to understand.