Guild Wars 2

So lately there has been an issue with macro users showing up in-game and playing wonderful pieces of music all via a single key press.

Last night I encountered someone in Divinity’s Reach who was using auto hot key to play a piece with an automatic key pressing program from outside of the game and it was quite obvious because of his perfect tempo and lack of improvisational capabilities.

He claimed that he was using a piano keyboard which converted inputs into the in-game system.

I called him out on it and asked him to play some scales or switch up the major chords to minor chords and people started booing at me and saying that I was angry because I wasn’t as good as a musician as he was.

I have long known about the macro songs and how people played them. Eventually someone showed up and played the exact same macro song he was playing with the exact same notes and tempo and he shut the kitten up and logged off.

So my question to you Arenanet is, what exactly is your stance on macros with musical instruments? Is it okay? Are multiple key press macros fine?

To be honest, all of this macro instruments is really turning me off when someone who has never ever picked up an instrument in their entire life can run over and take all the credit.

- Musician’s Guild of Tyria

Our guild’s videos all played by players without the use of macros.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOAywwb6_9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5sbBr3Yps

Now -that- is a very focused, personal hatred right there. I certainly enjoy making my own musical failures rather thkittening macros, but come on. Let people have fun however they feel like if they aren’t doing any harm in the process.

Anmida.4058:

Now -that- is a very focused, personal hatred right there. I certainly enjoy making my own musical failures rather thkittening macros, but come on. Let people have fun however they feel like if they aren’t doing any harm in the process.

Yeah, I didn’t really care until the guy started claiming that he was pressing every single key that the macro was pressing for him and wasn’t using a macro.

Acceptable, but what can you do about it. It’s like people going to PvP with a completely copypasted playstyle, claiming they are build prodigies and they thought of their setup all along.
Of course it’s not the same thing at all, but you catch my drift. Insecurities needing some ego boosting. At least they are happy -and- they don’t shatter everyone’s eardrums trying to actually compose things of their own.

“To be honest, all of this macro instruments is really turning me off when someone who has never ever picked up an instrument in their entire life can run over and take all the credit.”

Heavy with bitterness…… it’s a game, if they want to lie it’s their problem/insecurity. ~shrugs~

However, Iirc, there was a thread asking anet about using macros and it was against the rules if they pressed more than one key at the same time, or something like that.

First World MMO Problems.

This post is taking potato to the next level

Macros that perform multiple actions or have a timer are still not allowed.

Olba.5376:

Macros that perform multiple actions or have a timer are still not allowed.

YUP – macros can only do this – one key – one skill no timers, etc. This is in the FAQ and has been talked about before – also no 3rd party programs allowed either.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Olba.5376:

Macros that perform multiple actions or have a timer are still not allowed.

YUP – macros can only do this – one key – one skill no timers, etc. This is in the FAQ and has been talked about before – also no 3rd party programs allowed either.

are you sure that they are not allowed?
some are “not supported” others are forbidden
i think it depends on the situation

well im not using any..
a friend of me does however…
i know everyone who is guilty says stuff like a friend… but its true >__<

Soinetwa.5193:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Olba.5376:

Macros that perform multiple actions or have a timer are still not allowed.

YUP – macros can only do this – one key – one skill no timers, etc. This is in the FAQ and has been talked about before – also no 3rd party programs allowed either.

are you sure that they are not allowed?
some are “not supported” others are forbidden
i think it depends on the situation

well im not using any..
a friend of me does however…
i know everyone who is guilty says stuff like a friend… but its true >__<

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first

Read and weep – if your friend uses them he can get a perma-ban

Macros are not allowed, unfortunately.
Imo using macros should be ok to use as long as you don’t use them to get a personal advantage. But afaik, they are not.

I’d love to use my auto click macro to sell stuff if I have a full inventory, or if I have to use a ton of consumables.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Macros are not allowed, unfortunately.
Imo using macros should be ok to use as long as you don’t use them to get a personal advantage. But afaik, they are not.

I’d love to use my auto click macro to sell stuff if I have a full inventory, or if I have to use a ton of consumables.

Anything that gives AN ADVANTAGE of one player over another is not allowed. Your one click WOULD give you an advantage – hence it is not allowed.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Macros are not allowed, unfortunately.
Imo using macros should be ok to use as long as you don’t use them to get a personal advantage. But afaik, they are not.

I’d love to use my auto click macro to sell stuff if I have a full inventory, or if I have to use a ton of consumables.

Anything that gives AN ADVANTAGE of one player over another is not allowed. Your one click WOULD give you an advantage – hence it is not allowed.

How does me selling my junk to a vendor quicker give me an unfair advantage over other players? Or drinking my karma jugs in 10 seconds instead of in 10 minutes?

In order for me to have an advantage over other players, there need to be some sort of competition first. It’s not like whoever empties his inventory first wins. What do I care if someone is able to sell his/her stuff faster than me?

… and playing music is such an advantage?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Macros are not allowed, unfortunately.
Imo using macros should be ok to use as long as you don’t use them to get a personal advantage. But afaik, they are not.

I’d love to use my auto click macro to sell stuff if I have a full inventory, or if I have to use a ton of consumables.

Anything that gives AN ADVANTAGE of one player over another is not allowed. Your one click WOULD give you an advantage – hence it is not allowed.

How does me selling my junk to a vendor quicker give me an unfair advantage over other players? Or drinking my karma jugs in 10 seconds instead of in 10 minutes?

In order for me to have an advantage over other players, there need to be some sort of competition first. It’s not like whoever empties his inventory first wins. What do I care if someone is able to sell his/her stuff faster than me?

Because it means you can sell more items than another player. it is an advantage, not matter how small. Same with playing a musical instrument. As far as drinking potions, in GW1 they banned people for using macros to drink potions – the same will happen in this game.

Sorry, A.net’s policy is all or none and right now it is none.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

… and playing music is such an advantage?

I would think that it’s more ANet holding a hard line against macros than whether or not music playing gives advantages. They can’t reasonably say no macros but then allow some macros. A company gets into legal problems when they apply the rules inconsistently.

Astral Projections.7320:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

… and playing music is such an advantage?

I would think that it’s more ANet holding a hard line against macros than whether or not music playing gives advantages. They can’t reasonably say no macros but then allow some macros. A company gets into legal problems when they apply the rules inconsistently.

THUMBSUP Spot on.

Astral Projections.7320:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

… and playing music is such an advantage?

I would think that it’s more ANet holding a hard line against macros than whether or not music playing gives advantages. They can’t reasonably say no macros but then allow some macros. A company gets into legal problems when they apply the rules inconsistently.

People also regularly tip for good music performances in game. Not only is it benefitting the macro users, it potentially gimps people playing music the official way—why tip player A when player B is giving us Beethoven

Enjoy your arguments. I think I’ll go enjoy some music.

Astral Projections.7320:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

… and playing music is such an advantage?

I would think that it’s more ANet holding a hard line against macros than whether or not music playing gives advantages. They can’t reasonably say no macros but then allow some macros. A company gets into legal problems when they apply the rules inconsistently.

Anet applies rules inconsistently all over the place. One example that’s come to light of late is the treatment of people with two of the same legendaries (some got refunded one, others didn’t).

DrGenocide.3174:

So lately there has been an issue with macro users showing up in-game and playing wonderful pieces of music all via a single key press.

Last night I encountered someone in Divinity’s Reach who was using auto hot key to play a piece with an automatic key pressing program from outside of the game and it was quite obvious because of his perfect tempo and lack of improvisational capabilities.

He claimed that he was using a piano keyboard which converted inputs into the in-game system.

I called him out on it and asked him to play some scales or switch up the major chords to minor chords and people started booing at me and saying that I was angry because I wasn’t as good as a musician as he was.

I have long known about the macro songs and how people played them. Eventually someone showed up and played the exact same macro song he was playing with the exact same notes and tempo and he shut the kitten up and logged off.

So my question to you Arenanet is, what exactly is your stance on macros with musical instruments? Is it okay? Are multiple key press macros fine?

To be honest, all of this macro instruments is really turning me off when someone who has never ever picked up an instrument in their entire life can run over and take all the credit.

- Musician’s Guild of Tyria

Our guild’s videos all played by players without the use of macros.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOAywwb6_9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5sbBr3Yps

I understand your concerns somehow, since I’ve too encountered many “macro musicians” lately – the worst of them are the ones claiming how much gold they make from players actually tipping them in the believe that what they saw/heard was somehow connected to skill or effort.

As far as I know, using macros of any sort that perform more than one (and the same!) action per key-press are not allowed. This should apply to any game mode equally, be it PvP or playing a harp… That’s the main problem I see with these macro musicians though. Apart from that, I really couldn’t care less about them.

Still I see exactly where you are coming from – I too have to admit it makes me cringe a little everytime I see/hear a macro user – just like it does in RL when I see some bad lip-syncing and miming to a recording (no idea if this are the right English terms for that). But that’s just the musician in me talking, and I mostly try to suppress her everytime I notice her speaking up, since it’s just not worth it over something insignificant like this.

Just enjoy making music with your guild and forget about those taunting you for not using a macro to pull off some Mozart. What you are doing is great and I’m sure it’s appreciated by everyone who understands how difficult it can be to sync songs with others while affected by latency.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Astral Projections.7320:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

… and playing music is such an advantage?

I would think that it’s more ANet holding a hard line against macros than whether or not music playing gives advantages. They can’t reasonably say no macros but then allow some macros. A company gets into legal problems when they apply the rules inconsistently.

Anet applies rules inconsistently all over the place. One example that’s come to light of late is the treatment of people with two of the same legendaries (some got refunded one, others didn’t).

Is there a stated rule about refunding Legendarys that you can point to? If not, then this is irrelevant.

We are talking here about ANet following rules that they have clearly and openly stated. Not refunds where we don’t know the specifics and the reasons why they ok’d some but not others.

From what I’ve read, there were some refunds done and then it abruptly stopped. What this sounds like to me, the support people who refunded did so without proper authorization and the refunds were stopped when management learned about it. This is actually, imo, a much more likely situation than ANet being deliberately inconsistent with applying rules about refunds.

Always keep in mind Hanlon’s Razor
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Best course of action may be to report and let ArenaNet investigate and deal with the issue as they see fit.

Good luck.

I think part of the confusion over macros being allowed or not is that players will use the term inconsistently.

For example some people call the software used to bind keyboard commands to extra mouse buttons macros, even if it’s 1:1 (e.g. push mouse button 4 to activate skill 1). Other people would say it’s only a macro if it does multiple things.

So the first person might say some macros are allowed and others aren’t, whereas the second person would say no macros are allowed at all. Neither is necessarily wrong, they’re just using the word in a different way.

But I think it should be pretty clear from the numerous times Anet has explained it that if you push 1 button or activate a 3rd party program and then it plays an entire song on an in-game instrument without you having to do anything else then that is definitely a macro and not allowed.

They’ve never said that only macros that give you an advantage are banned, probably because it’s hard to say what does and what doesn’t. At first glance a macro that plays a song for you is harmless, but if someone sends you gold because they like the song and thought you were playing it then it’s given you an advantage. But maybe they just like the song and don’t care how you were playing it, and would have given you the gold either way. Or maybe…..

That’s why the rule is kept simple – if you push 1 button and it carries out more than 1 action it’s not allowed.

i know 3rd party programs are allowed, i use sweetFX so i can stand the horrible shading and bland textures.
it doesn’t give me an advantage yet still adds/changes something, i think that counts for all the 3rd party programs.
they said the same thing about GW1 yet i have heard plenty of ppl claiming on 100% the map while using texmod, i don’t get bad about that, i just think they are sad that they need to lie to feel important.

TexMod was unsupported by ArenaNet, rather than ban-worthy.

Here is their official stance on TexMod, if you are interested: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide_to_modifying_in-game_graphics/Texmod#ArenaNet

The instrument macro seems (to me) a bit different in that it allows you to win (or at least never lose) at content such as the Bell Choir. The rewards from such an event could be quite valuable, giving a player using such a macro (modification) quite the monetary or cosmetic advantage.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Astral Projections.7320:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

… and playing music is such an advantage?

I would think that it’s more ANet holding a hard line against macros than whether or not music playing gives advantages. They can’t reasonably say no macros but then allow some macros. A company gets into legal problems when they apply the rules inconsistently.

Anet applies rules inconsistently all over the place. One example that’s come to light of late is the treatment of people with two of the same legendaries (some got refunded one, others didn’t).

Your example is invalid. Macros, and their use, are covered in the legal terms of service. You, as a buyer, agreed to them when you installed the game, thus it is a legally binding contract between two parties. From a legal stand point, Anet would have been well within their rights to have said no to everyone who asked for some sort of refund (IMO these players do not deserve a refund). However, some people ended up receiving them and others didn’t. This is inconsistency with internal process, which isn’t legally binding.

I do like to tip instrument players, but I’m sure that I’ve not tipped plenty of talented people thinking they were macro users. In that regard is the only reason I’m against macros, because it sets an unfair standard and anyone with that talent is doubted.

i can understand that ppl are not happy with players who claim they do it them self but do understand, being able to play an instrument IRL doesn’t make you an expert in the game.
i can play the keyboard a bit but completely suck at using the in-game instruments, is it then wrong for me to use a 3rd party programs to get my money’s worth?

i do support ppl who are against such things to player who use programs like that yet claim they do it them self, when you do it your self i congrats them for mastering it in-game.
just keep in mind, not everyone is as skilled and able to play an instrument in-game, not everyone claims they do it them self and i for one would not mind admitting that i use a 3rd party program to play my instrument.

sorudo.9054:

i can understand that ppl are not happy with players who claim they do it them self but do understand, being able to play an instrument IRL doesn’t make you an expert in the game.
i can play the keyboard a bit but completely suck at using the in-game instruments, is it then wrong for me to use a 3rd party programs to get my money’s worth?

i do support ppl who are against such things to player who use programs like that yet claim they do it them self, when you do it your self i congrats them for mastering it in-game.
just keep in mind, not everyone is as skilled and able to play an instrument in-game, not everyone claims they do it them self and i for one would not mind admitting that i use a 3rd party program to play my instrument.

You know, there is such thing as taking the time and effort to learn the game or the instruments in this game.

I can honestly say 100% that I was nowhere near as good as I am now when I first started playing the instruments in this game.

sorudo.9054:

i can understand that ppl are not happy with players who claim they do it them self but do understand, being able to play an instrument IRL doesn’t make you an expert in the game.
i can play the keyboard a bit but completely suck at using the in-game instruments, is it then wrong for me to use a 3rd party programs to get my money’s worth?

i do support ppl who are against such things to player who use programs like that yet claim they do it them self, when you do it your self i congrats them for mastering it in-game.
just keep in mind, not everyone is as skilled and able to play an instrument in-game, not everyone claims they do it them self and i for one would not mind admitting that i use a 3rd party program to play my instrument.

I don’t know about that logic…

If I were to buy an instrument in real life, without any type of skill to play, I wouldn’t expect to be able to play my favorite songs. Likewise, I didn’t buy any of the instruments on the BLTC because, I can’t play them. And if I bought them, I still wouldn’t expect to be able to play them simply because I spent a few gems on them.

And you’re basically admitting to breaking the code of conduct, btw.

I can’t believe someone will cheat like this. Music playing is serious business.

I honestly dont’ know the answer. Maybe you can try report anet.

The “macros are not allowed” is a blanket statement designed to protect Anet.

Yes, these instrument macros are not allowed.

But is Anet going to do anything about it? Very unlikely, since it’s not harmful to the game.

But hey, feel free to report the player if that makes you feel good and righteous

Vol.7601:

The “macros are not allowed” is a blanket statement designed to protect Anet.

Yes, these instrument macros are not allowed.

But is Anet going to do anything about it? Very unlikely, since it’s not harmful to the game.

But hey, feel free to report the player if that makes you feel good and righteous

spot on!

Dusty Moon.4382:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Macros are not allowed, unfortunately.
Imo using macros should be ok to use as long as you don’t use them to get a personal advantage. But afaik, they are not.

I’d love to use my auto click macro to sell stuff if I have a full inventory, or if I have to use a ton of consumables.

Anything that gives AN ADVANTAGE of one player over another is not allowed. Your one click WOULD give you an advantage – hence it is not allowed.

Inventory clicking is esportz.

I find it funny when people are clearly using an external program and they wont admit to it. It really don’t matter to me I try not to contribute the esport known as bank sitting. If these people are as good as they sound then they should apply it to other aspects of the game other than entertaining bank sitters.

I’m sorry but I’m a terrible musician. Other people shouldn’t be allowed to create great music if they can’t play.

They should play bad music like me and create loud and unpleasant noise to annoy other players just like me.

Kinda leads to the question of “why woudl Anet sell the instruments if they expect people to have perfect pitch and tempo” to me its encouraging macro use …

You can make a good instrument macro in Razer Synapse for your Black Widow. Is Anet going to start banning everyone who games on Razer hardware so someone can’t play their instrument they paid good money for as they wish?

Asgaeroth.6427:

You can make a good instrument macro in Razer Synapse for your Black Widow. Is Anet going to start banning everyone who games on Razer hardware so someone can’t play their instrument they paid good money for as they wish?

There is a “Steel Series” GW2 macro keyboard that is out there with the GW2 logo and all.

Vol has it right. Technically, yes, it’s against the rules, and if ANet wanted an excuse to ban someone, they could use that.

In reality though? Unless the macro music players somehow start breaking the game or exploiting it somehow, they probably won’t see any action taken against them.

It’s like how the rules state that you, and only you, can play on your account. Yet we all know that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of accounts out there where players have let friends, kids and significant others share their account. Banning all of those accounts is not only unfeasible, but counter-productive. (Of course, if something goes wrong with those accounts, ANet is going to throw up their hands and go, “Hey, this is exactly why we advise against account sharing!”)

We live in a world where people do not make the distinction between an electronic beat and a real percussion player, nor do they appreciate the importance of real artists.

They think artistic appreciation has to do with taste and they do not realize that the recognition of talent is not a question of taste but of cultural knowledge.

Considering that, there is nothing to be surprised about when people enjoy pre-programmed macros more than a real musician trying to play a sampled instrument on a keyboard, in a game.

I’m reminded of this social experiment that was once carried out where a world famous violinist busked in front of a subway station for half a day. His total takings? Something like $30. Yet this same violinist would play at a concert hall two days later, where people would pay hundreds of dollars per ticket.

Barely anybody on the street recognised the musician, or grasped the depth of his talent. Yet odds are some of those same people might have gone to his concert and paid large sums of money to hear the same music they couldn’t even appreciate when they got it for free.

Is that a sign of how the unwashed masses can’t appreciate good art, or that good artistic skill is actually overvalued? I’ll let you decide.

Zaxares.5419:

I’m reminded of this social experiment that was once carried out where a world famous violinist busked in front of a subway station for half a day. His total takings? Something like $30. Yet this same violinist would play at a concert hall two days later, where people would pay hundreds of dollars per ticket.

Barely anybody on the street recognised the musician, or grasped the depth of his talent. Yet odds are some of those same people might have gone to his concert and paid large sums of money to hear the same music they couldn’t even appreciate when they got it for free.

Is that a sign of how the unwashed masses can’t appreciate good art, or that good artistic skill is actually overvalued? I’ll let you decide.

It might mean the quality of players by subway stations is so high that he was only average there.

I’m not dead sure what your post has to do with whether or not using macros ingame will get you banned, but carry on.

It was in response to Xill’s post.

Zaxares.5419:

I’m reminded of this social experiment that was once carried out where a world famous violinist busked in front of a subway station for half a day. His total takings? Something like $30. Yet this same violinist would play at a concert hall two days later, where people would pay hundreds of dollars per ticket.

Barely anybody on the street recognised the musician, or grasped the depth of his talent. Yet odds are some of those same people might have gone to his concert and paid large sums of money to hear the same music they couldn’t even appreciate when they got it for free.

Is that a sign of how the unwashed masses can’t appreciate good art, or that good artistic skill is actually overvalued? I’ll let you decide.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html

Here’s the link to the article for anyone interested. The story won the post a pulitzer.

Rypo Falem.8913:

Zaxares.5419:

I’m reminded of this social experiment that was once carried out where a world famous violinist busked in front of a subway station for half a day. His total takings? Something like $30. Yet this same violinist would play at a concert hall two days later, where people would pay hundreds of dollars per ticket.

Barely anybody on the street recognised the musician, or grasped the depth of his talent. Yet odds are some of those same people might have gone to his concert and paid large sums of money to hear the same music they couldn’t even appreciate when they got it for free.

Is that a sign of how the unwashed masses can’t appreciate good art, or that good artistic skill is actually overvalued? I’ll let you decide.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/04/AR2007040401721.html

Here’s the link to the article for anyone interested. The story won the post a pulitzer.

As a commuter myself I have to say that article makes a number of assumptions that are likely to be inaccurate for most of the people it’s talking about.

Starting with saying they have to choose whether to stop and listen. This experiment was carried out during the rush hour when the majority of these people were on their way to work. Stopping would mean being late and in the vast majority of jobs that will count against you. If it happens too often it can lead to a disciplinary hearing, in some cases it simply leads to being fired. Suddenly it’s not so much of a choice is it?

The writer is also assuming right from the start that the random passersby are the same people who would pay to attend this guys concerts, which is also a massive over-simplification. No matter what style of music you play, or how good you are at it not everyone is going to enjoy hearing it. Personally I have little interest in classical music and even less in solo violin (in my opinion you have to be one of the best in the world to even make the thing sound tolerable, and even then it’s better buried in a full orchestra) so if someone started playing one on the street that would actually count as another reason to continue on my journey as quickly as possible and get away from it. And I’m sure people who like his music would say much the same about the music I enjoy.

He’s also assuming that everyone there, regardless of whether they pass by quickly or stop and listen, has some change easily to hand which they could give him. Again this is not the case. I very rarely have any cash on me (unless you count stray pennies which fell to the bottom of my bag) and when I’m commuting my purse is buried at the bottom of my bag to make it harder for pickpockets to find. Again I know I’m not the only one in this situation. In fact my colleagues and I have sometimes joked that buskers in London are going to have to start accepting cards or they’re not going to get anything.

All in all there are far too many factors here to draw any viable conclusions. It’s a very poetic article, but as a social experiment it’s fairly useless.

Case by case basis.

Macros to set up combos that would be otherwise unexecutable without split second timing to slaughter people in pvp or farm mobs is one thing..

But for music? Really? Did his time spent using equipment to play an instrument so that it sounded good to passers-by instead of actually pressing the keys really get that far under your skin?