Guild Wars 2

Angelus.1042:

Im starting to think that all that’s left are raging fanboys in the GW2 forums that aren’t open to any suggestions or changes…

To be honest, I see more raging from haters, and minimal fanboism all over. Also, not every hater offers solutions serving every player, but often just suiting their own preferences, and what they wish the game was so it was more convenient/fun to them-often these “solutions” go against the game’s original design as well (maybe not your solutions, which I know nothing about, but in general this type of “solution”: “if this game was more like WoW, it would be so much better!”) Not wholly disliking the game doesn’t mean you are a “fanboi”, and it’s ok for people to disagree without calling each other names, such as the easy way out, “fanboi” when people don’t agree with your complaints-even if they are valid to yourself.

Why some people order Chicken & Noodle soup, and then get angry because it had Chicken pieces instead of Broccoli/Cheddar boggles the mind. :P

Angelus.1042:

Most fun I had in Guild Wars 1 was missions.

Same here.

The issue is that not only storytelling somehow got worse (the personal story has worse writing than Nightfall), but also the community got a lot worse. Missions in Nightfall did not really give loot, but people did them anyway. Dungeons, which could have worked like missions (and could have been large open areas instead of mostly being small closed spaces), are only done in GW2 by people who are farming.

This is my biggest issue with the game. Adding fun content that requires other people will mostly mean it will be left alone by the community as a whole. Adding fun content that gives “phat loot” will gather farmers who want to exploit it, not play to have fun. Adding boring content that gives “phat loot” is the easiest way to make people play through content, but also the laziest.

I wish we had something like the GW1 henchmen for the instanced content. In GW1 henchmen helped when there weren’t people around, but GW2 needs henchmen for when there aren’t anyone other than farmers and exploiters around.

Star Ace.5207:

Why some people order Chicken & Noodle soup, and then get angry because it had Chicken pieces instead of Broccoli/Cheddar boggles the mind. :P

I really wanted to like GW2, though. After waiting all those years for it… It’s sad to see that the game is a failure for me.

Angelus.1042:

Im starting to think that all that’s left are raging fanboys in the GW2 forums that aren’t open to any suggestions or changes…

But the OP didn’t really suggest any changes, he/she just insulted the playerbase and the game. The OP even implied he/she didn’t like MMOs.

GW2 does need to improve, and I can see that happening with each update, some significant some not. To say GW2 is a failure however? I think thats just silly and you’re slandering the game just to be “cool” or “edgy” because a lot of people like it.

Boreale.3129:

The OP even implied he/she didn’t like MMOs.

I don’t. MMOs have been built to be more similar to addictions than to games. From a business point of view, that’s perfect: grind is a kind of content that is easy to make, that is very time consuming, and that some players are willing to devour in as large quantities as possible. Unfortunatelly, it’s also very poor content, as far as quality goes.

GW1 avoided the traps of other MMOs by actually trying to be a fun game, as opposed to relying purely on grind (until GW:EN, at least). Guild Wars 2 tries a bit, but all of its smaller systems are filled with grind, and some of the major ones suffer the same issue. When the grind is seen for what it is – a way to disguise content that is not fun – the fact it’s so prevalent in GW2 is actually very telling.

Grinding? I laugh with everyone who ever grinds or farms. It’s stupid and unnecessary.
- A guy with 5 Ascended items, full exotic armor and weapon skins he likes.

Star Ace.5207:

Why some people order Chicken & Noodle soup, and then get angry because it had Chicken pieces instead of Broccoli/Cheddar boggles the mind. :P

Too bad they added broccoli to the chicken & noodle soup that I ordered. Broccoli I didn’t even asked for.

1 WoW have nothing to do with it.. i can name u 20 MMOs that have raids or whatever u call it. Raids are great for guilds. Will be not fun if u can see all your guild mates in the map? … not just 5 … 3 party raids will be so great for WvW…meh wishful thinking
2 How wrong can be to have coliseum arena for GvG battles ?
3 Don,t worry.. i,m not offended .. we are just talking.
At the end of the day we can talk all we want but the state of the game belongs to the owners end is up to them to do what they want. We the players can only give them tips to improve it or not.

Zee.1294:

1 WoW have nothing to do with it.. i can name u 20 MMOs that have raids or whatever u call it.

Name me 20 MMOs that have raids.

On top of this I want you to explain why GW2 should be like these “20” other MMOs.

Riselight.3695:

It’s stupid and unnecessary.

I agree. ArenaNet apparently thinks otherwise, though, considering how they have filled the game with features for grinders.

Erasculio.2914:

Riselight.3695:

It’s stupid and unnecessary.

I agree. ArenaNet apparently thinks otherwise, though, considering how they have filled the game with features for grinders.

Do not bend my sentence. Just admit you’re wrong and just follow the crowd who are mad because Legendary crafting is too hard for them, and then they gonna cry about it on forum.

Riselight.3695:

Just admit you’re wrong and just follow the crowd who are mad because Legendary crafting is too hard for them

“For them”? Do you have a Legendary?

Ok..
Age of Conan
Aion: The Tower of Eternity
Allods Online
Anarchy Online
Borderlands 2
City of Heroes
Dark Age of Camelot
DC Universe Online
Dungeons & Dragons Online
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Final Fantasy XI
Lineage II
Lord of the Rings Online
Lunia
Ragnarok Online
Rappelz
Rift
ROSE Online
RuneScape
Runes of Magic
Minecraft
Tibia
Tera online
Vindictus
Warhammer Online
Wizard 101
World of Warcraft
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Shaiya

Why Not ? If they all have it that means is working is it ?
Besides Raids are simply optional tool for guilds

there are raids in GW2, just not instanced raids

Zee.1294:

Ok..
Age of Conan
Aion: The Tower of Eternity
Allods Online
Anarchy Online
Borderlands 2
City of Heroes
Dark Age of Camelot
DC Universe Online
Dungeons & Dragons Online
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Final Fantasy XI
Lineage II
Lord of the Rings Online
Lunia
Ragnarok Online
Rappelz
Rift
ROSE Online
RuneScape
Runes of Magic
Minecraft
Tibia
Tera online
Vindictus
Warhammer Online
Wizard 101
World of Warcraft
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Shaiya

Why Not ? If they all have it that means is working is it ?
Besides Raids are simply optional tool for guilds

A lot of those games I don’t know, but Runescape? Minecraft?

Most of them games don’t have raids like WoW and have their own specific types. Not all of them games have instanced raids either. I agree there is more they could add to GW2 that is “raid-like” for example bosses in the world that has to be forced spawned using items etc, and only a party can attack it, but you’re forgetting this game is mainly about the open world. Dungeons are simply there to satisfy one target market, however that market is notoriously hard to please.

Zee.1294:

Mirta.5029:

Zee.1294:

1. Not even going to answer Why is wrong? i let u think for a bit for that
2. Did i mention GW1 ? You imagine ? Guild battles in GUILD WARS Game should of been implemented at release , not 3 years after… case close

1. I can tell you why implementing raids would be wrong. I’m seriously curious why did you expect it to be in the game.
2. Guild Wars is the lore, not the activity. If something wasn’t there at release in the first one why do you think it should be there at release in the second one?

1 Raids end guilds go hand end hand. I,m seriously curious did u actually played any either MMO . I dont think u know the difference of having 5 man party or 30 man raid e spatially on so call guild base game. I rely like to know why will be wrong ?
2 Wrong….Activity is what makes or breaks MMO ..

1. I played WoW. There’s the auto-raid grouper thing. You don’t need a guild for it. Now why would it be wrong:
harder to find a group (even being in a guild with 350 people doesn’t guarantee that anyone will want to do SE with me when someone else wants to do MF, someone wants CoF and someone wants to run a fractal). Promotes less skilled and more zergy kind of play. At this point 5 people all have to do their best. If we upped to 20 people I’m pretty sure some would be attempting to catch a free ride. Would most likely offer more rewards making other dungeons not as visited increasing the troubles people face to get groups for less popular dungeons. This game is attempting to be different, if it added what every other MMO has it might as well give up and add the trinity.
2. Activity was not there at the start of Guild Wars 1 either. The game is named after the lore. Whether or not they want to put the activity in later is completely up to developers.

Zee.1294:

Ok..
Age of Conan
Aion: The Tower of Eternity
Allods Online
Anarchy Online
Borderlands 2
City of Heroes
Dark Age of Camelot
DC Universe Online
Dungeons & Dragons Online
EverQuest
EverQuest II
Final Fantasy XI
Lineage II
Lord of the Rings Online
Lunia
Ragnarok Online
Rappelz
Rift
ROSE Online
RuneScape
Runes of Magic
Minecraft
Tibia
Tera online
Vindictus
Warhammer Online
Wizard 101
World of Warcraft
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Shaiya

Why Not ? If they all have it that means is working is it ?
Besides Raids are simply optional tool for guilds

out of this list games that are not an MMO and doesn’t have raids: Borderlands 2, Minecraft.
Games that as far as I know don’t have raids but are an MMO : Runescape, City of Heroes and Runes of Magic.
A lot of the games on the list have died or are dying as well.

maddoctor.2738:

I was going to write a huge wall of text explaining the failures of the OP but Mirta did it already…

I’m only going to respond to another post of the OP:

Erasculio.2914:

Go in game and watch. Take a look at how many players are farming dynamic events in Cursed Shores; compare that to how many players are just playing in any other map in the game. Try to find a group for story mode in a dungeon that is not farmed, and compare that to finding a group for CoF path 1. See how many players do the Dragon events, and then tell me how many players you see just exploring the world.

That doesn’t prove anything… There are people who are moving from zone to zone, world boss to world boss, there are people who are doing events for their dailies, you’ve never gone to Queensdale I guess, or any starting zone. Not to mention a huge amount of players isn’t in Cursed Shore, they are in WvW, I guess WvW is also a grind in your faulty logic?

All those examples make it clear that grinders are in very higher numbers than real players. This has a very clear impact on ArenaNet – Ascended gear is just a huge grind, Fractals are basically a huge grind, the loudest complaint in the forum a while ago was about the lack of drops, etc, etc.

You don’t actually have those numbers you say you have, you have no proof and no evidence to suggest anything. Ascended gear isn’t a huge grind at all, seriously Ascended a huge grind? What’s your basis on this? You just wanted it yesterday and it will take you a little bit of more time and you come here and start ranting?

MMORPGs have been designed to cater to grinders (and that is actually a fact, not just my opinion, unlike most other things I have said here). The original Guild Wars had less of a focus on grind, at least until GW:EN. GW2 is catering to grinders, and as such it has a community of addicts, who care more about their next “fix” than about having fun. Like I said above, it’s a pity that ArenaNet made a game in which it’s so easy to play with other people, and then filled it with people you don’t want to play with.

The original Guild Wars had a LOT more grinding than Guild Wars 2 (for cosmetics/titles) have you ever tried maxing out some of the titles in GW1? Getting Obsidian armor maybe? The grind in GW1 makes grinding in GW2 look like a walk in the park, and no it didn’t start from GW:EN, it was always there you just wear your “GW1 was awesome glasses” and refuse to see the truth in front of you. For your final, idiotic comment, I’ll have you know I play with people I want to play with, including my guild mates and my friends, if you have a problem socializing and playing with proper people that’s your fault.

I actually disliked starting a character in nightfall because it required you to farm levels at the beginning. Grinding Sunspear and Lightbringer rank was pretty tormenting, lol.

Most of my chars were Factions because I love Cantha and because it was all fast-paced story driven progression.

Doggie.3184:

I actually disliked starting a character in nightfall because it required you to farm levels at the beginning. Grinding Sunspear and Lightbringer rank was pretty tormenting, lol.

I have seen similar complaints about the Kurzick and Luxon faction points in Factions. For those who have forgotten, you need 10.000 faction points in either of those two sides in order to advance through the storyline.

“OMG teh grindy!11!!”, someone could say. And that’s false. What ArenaNet has used in both those games (as well as in a few things in GW:EN) is giving players the option of which quests to do. While other MMOs would give players a list of quests and tell them to do all of them before advancing to the next area, the points system used by ArenaNet allowed players to pick which quests they wanted to do in order to advance.

Now, keep in mind I’m not saying GW1 was perfect, far from it. Prophecies had an horrible story, Factions’ one was only slightly less bad, and all the Guild Wars 1 games had a lot of flaws.

Unfortunately, Guild Wars 2 has even more flaws. Even the things ArenaNet should have learned after GW1 were thrown away. And the decision to cater to grinders, addicts and exploiters has obviously been something ArenaNet deliberately decided to do, to the detriment of other, real, players.

Erasculio.2914:

daimasei.4091:

Now seriously, my eyes hurt only while scrolling. You should do a resume or something.

Last post in the review, the Conclusion (just two paragraphs :-P).

Randulf.7614:

A pattern of bad updates? Based on what?

Karka update. Guild missions update in which guild missions were bugged and did not work properly. Update that introduced the exploit in AC that took ArenaNet one month to fix; update that actually made the Scavengers in AC worse than they were. Lackluster story added through Flame & Frost. Ascended tier… Fractals with a gate mechanic based on gear, and so on.

You say it is riddled with bugs. No mmo is bug free

That’s just a bad excuse. MMORPGs are usually mediocre games. It’s irrelevant if GW2 is sligthly less mediocre or not; what matters is if Guild Wars 2 is a good game or not. And the amount of bugs in this game, plus how slow ArenaNet is in fixing them, is not something you see in good games.

Sorry but this is very relevant, because you are ignoring the reason most MMOs are bugged. And if you ignore that reason then you’re just a bad reviewer.

See reviewers and I’ve written professional reviews, take things into account like genre. The problem is, MMOs, unlike most games, change all the time. The more a game changes, the less time devs have to work on older bugs and the more new bugs get introduced because there’s new code.

Even driving games are bugged, but driving games tend not to evolve. They’re what they are when you buy them. And there are still bugs and often games are patched. But since new content generally isn’t added, or very little new content such as DLCs well, there’s less reasons for bugs to exist.

The more ambitious a project the more it’s going to have bugs. Windows has bugs and as far as I can tell, Microsoft is a much bigger company than Anet.

Of course, fun is relative. Reading your review, I think you had the conclusion in mind while writing it, which doesn’t actually produce a fair review.

Of course, for an amateur review, you’d expect this. It would have been much better if you saved the wall of text and just jumped to your conclusion though, since everything you say is suspect if you start with bias.

Vayne.8563:

Of course, for an amateur review, you’d expect this. It would have been much better if you saved the wall of text and just jumped to your conclusion though, since everything you say is suspect if you start with bias.

It was actually the opposite. I had writen a first draft with a more positive conclusion, but after going into details about the flaws of every system in the game, I realized how the game wasn’t as interesting as I was claiming it was.

I would accept your statement about some sort of bias if you could point where the arguments leading to my conclusion are wrong.

Erasculio.2914:

Doggie.3184:

I actually disliked starting a character in nightfall because it required you to farm levels at the beginning. Grinding Sunspear and Lightbringer rank was pretty tormenting, lol.

I have seen similar complaints about the Kurzick and Luxon faction points in Factions. For those who have forgotten, you need 10.000 faction points in either of those two sides in order to advance through the storyline.

“OMG teh grindy!11!!”, someone could say. And that’s false. What ArenaNet has used in both those games (as well as in a few things in GW:EN) is giving players the option of which quests to do. While other MMOs would give players a list of quests and tell them to do all of them before advancing to the next area, the points system used by ArenaNet allowed players to pick which quests they wanted to do in order to advance.

Now, keep in mind I’m not saying GW1 was perfect, far from it. Prophecies had an horrible story, Factions’ one was only slightly less bad, and all the Guild Wars 1 games had a lot of flaws.

Unfortunately, Guild Wars 2 has even more flaws. Even the things ArenaNet should have learned after GW1 were thrown away. And the decision to cater to grinders, addicts and exploiters has obviously been something ArenaNet deliberately decided to do, to the detriment of other, real, players.

At least Fort Aspenwood PvP was fun, and you actually earned money off it. A lot more fun than SPvP.

Erasculio.2914:

Riselight.3695:

Just admit you’re wrong and just follow the crowd who are mad because Legendary crafting is too hard for them

“For them”? Do you have a Legendary?

Nope, but unlike everyone I realise getting Legendary is hard and is supposed to be hard, very hard.

Riselight.3695:

Erasculio.2914:

Riselight.3695:

Just admit you’re wrong and just follow the crowd who are mad because Legendary crafting is too hard for them

“For them”? Do you have a Legendary?

Nope, but unlike everyone I realise getting Legendary is hard and is supposed to be hard, very hard.

It’s not hard.

It’s simply time consuming.

That’s what grind is about in pay to play games. The developers are not interested in having skilled players – they don’t get anything out of that. They do get paid if people play longer, since that means more time paying monthly fees. The result is exactly the kind of thing seen in Legendary weapons: the so-called “hard” part are things a bot could do. They don’t require skill. They simply require time. Which can easily be seen in how some very bad players got more than one Legendary after playing ten hours per day every day for 5 months.

This makes perfect sense for a pay to play game. Guild Wars 2, however, is not a pay to play game. Ergo, having such a focus on grind doesn’t make sense.

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

daimasei.4091:

Now seriously, my eyes hurt only while scrolling. You should do a resume or something.

Last post in the review, the Conclusion (just two paragraphs :-P).

Randulf.7614:

A pattern of bad updates? Based on what?

Karka update. Guild missions update in which guild missions were bugged and did not work properly. Update that introduced the exploit in AC that took ArenaNet one month to fix; update that actually made the Scavengers in AC worse than they were. Lackluster story added through Flame & Frost. Ascended tier… Fractals with a gate mechanic based on gear, and so on.

You say it is riddled with bugs. No mmo is bug free

That’s just a bad excuse. MMORPGs are usually mediocre games. It’s irrelevant if GW2 is sligthly less mediocre or not; what matters is if Guild Wars 2 is a good game or not. And the amount of bugs in this game, plus how slow ArenaNet is in fixing them, is not something you see in good games.

Sorry but this is very relevant, because you are ignoring the reason most MMOs are bugged. And if you ignore that reason then you’re just a bad reviewer.

See reviewers and I’ve written professional reviews, take things into account like genre. The problem is, MMOs, unlike most games, change all the time. The more a game changes, the less time devs have to work on older bugs and the more new bugs get introduced because there’s new code.

Even driving games are bugged, but driving games tend not to evolve. They’re what they are when you buy them. And there are still bugs and often games are patched. But since new content generally isn’t added, or very little new content such as DLCs well, there’s less reasons for bugs to exist.

The more ambitious a project the more it’s going to have bugs. Windows has bugs and as far as I can tell, Microsoft is a much bigger company than Anet.

Of course, fun is relative. Reading your review, I think you had the conclusion in mind while writing it, which doesn’t actually produce a fair review.

Of course, for an amateur review, you’d expect this. It would have been much better if you saved the wall of text and just jumped to your conclusion though, since everything you say is suspect if you start with bias.

Vayne you’re just as bad about bias except your bias is on the other side. Also if you’ve read a book before then walls of text should be something your familiar with. When you read a game magazine article do you complain about the article being a wall of text? Or do you just say it’s a wall of text when you disagree with it?

OP trying to have a critical discussion in this forum is pretty pointless. It’s like trying to get Scientologists to admit they believe in Xenu.

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

daimasei.4091:

Now seriously, my eyes hurt only while scrolling. You should do a resume or something.

Last post in the review, the Conclusion (just two paragraphs :-P).

Randulf.7614:

A pattern of bad updates? Based on what?

Karka update. Guild missions update in which guild missions were bugged and did not work properly. Update that introduced the exploit in AC that took ArenaNet one month to fix; update that actually made the Scavengers in AC worse than they were. Lackluster story added through Flame & Frost. Ascended tier… Fractals with a gate mechanic based on gear, and so on.

You say it is riddled with bugs. No mmo is bug free

That’s just a bad excuse. MMORPGs are usually mediocre games. It’s irrelevant if GW2 is sligthly less mediocre or not; what matters is if Guild Wars 2 is a good game or not. And the amount of bugs in this game, plus how slow ArenaNet is in fixing them, is not something you see in good games.

Sorry but this is very relevant, because you are ignoring the reason most MMOs are bugged. And if you ignore that reason then you’re just a bad reviewer.

See reviewers and I’ve written professional reviews, take things into account like genre. The problem is, MMOs, unlike most games, change all the time. The more a game changes, the less time devs have to work on older bugs and the more new bugs get introduced because there’s new code.

Even driving games are bugged, but driving games tend not to evolve. They’re what they are when you buy them. And there are still bugs and often games are patched. But since new content generally isn’t added, or very little new content such as DLCs well, there’s less reasons for bugs to exist.

The more ambitious a project the more it’s going to have bugs. Windows has bugs and as far as I can tell, Microsoft is a much bigger company than Anet.

Of course, fun is relative. Reading your review, I think you had the conclusion in mind while writing it, which doesn’t actually produce a fair review.

Of course, for an amateur review, you’d expect this. It would have been much better if you saved the wall of text and just jumped to your conclusion though, since everything you say is suspect if you start with bias.

I have also written literature and academic reviews; that is part of my life with a background in academics and a job as a researcher. His review was hardly “amateur.” Your response, on the other hand, presents no evidence or interaction with the points he raised. That is decidedly “amateur.” A supercilious disposition is no substitute for meaningful interaction.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Of course, for an amateur review, you’d expect this. It would have been much better if you saved the wall of text and just jumped to your conclusion though, since everything you say is suspect if you start with bias.

It was actually the opposite. I had writen a first draft with a more positive conclusion, but after going into details about the flaws of every system in the game, I realized how the game wasn’t as interesting as I was claiming it was.

I would accept your statement about some sort of bias if you could point where the arguments leading to my conclusion are wrong.

read my two walls of text on page 1 then!

I got 1200 hours of enjoyment out of a $60 game, that’s a huge success imo.

Peetee.9406:

I got 1200 hours of enjoyment out of a $60 game, that’s a huge success imo.

That’s an extremely good point. I do remember that when I can.

Its mostly that I got all hyped for the game and it didn’t live up to my expectations, tbh. I was so sick of WoW, and from reviews and descriptions of mechanics, this just sounded like so much fun.

but then I’ve got to keep in mind that it was just $80 (deluxe) and considering how many hours I got out of it, it was some of the best money ever spent.

Jaall.3420:

Most of them games don’t have raids like WoW and have their own specific types. Not all of them games have instanced raids either. I agree there is more they could add to GW2 that is “raid-like” for example bosses in the world that has to be forced spawned using items etc, and only a party can attack it, but you’re forgetting this game is mainly about the open world. Dungeons are simply there to satisfy one target market, however that market is notoriously hard to please.

What you’re forgetting is that GW2 isn’t about content its about selling stuff on the Gem Store. Its my contention they develop stories around items they can sell thru the gem store instead of vice-versa.

When I honestly compare both GW and GW2 I always come to the same conclusion and that is the latter is shallow and seemingly lost in where it wants to go and I just wonder how much that has to do with the departure of Jeff Strain and Patrick Wyatt.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Erasculio.2914:

daimasei.4091:

Now seriously, my eyes hurt only while scrolling. You should do a resume or something.

Last post in the review, the Conclusion (just two paragraphs :-P).

Randulf.7614:

A pattern of bad updates? Based on what?

Karka update. Guild missions update in which guild missions were bugged and did not work properly. Update that introduced the exploit in AC that took ArenaNet one month to fix; update that actually made the Scavengers in AC worse than they were. Lackluster story added through Flame & Frost. Ascended tier… Fractals with a gate mechanic based on gear, and so on.

You say it is riddled with bugs. No mmo is bug free

That’s just a bad excuse. MMORPGs are usually mediocre games. It’s irrelevant if GW2 is sligthly less mediocre or not; what matters is if Guild Wars 2 is a good game or not. And the amount of bugs in this game, plus how slow ArenaNet is in fixing them, is not something you see in good games.

Sorry but this is very relevant, because you are ignoring the reason most MMOs are bugged. And if you ignore that reason then you’re just a bad reviewer.

See reviewers and I’ve written professional reviews, take things into account like genre. The problem is, MMOs, unlike most games, change all the time. The more a game changes, the less time devs have to work on older bugs and the more new bugs get introduced because there’s new code.

Even driving games are bugged, but driving games tend not to evolve. They’re what they are when you buy them. And there are still bugs and often games are patched. But since new content generally isn’t added, or very little new content such as DLCs well, there’s less reasons for bugs to exist.

The more ambitious a project the more it’s going to have bugs. Windows has bugs and as far as I can tell, Microsoft is a much bigger company than Anet.

Of course, fun is relative. Reading your review, I think you had the conclusion in mind while writing it, which doesn’t actually produce a fair review.

Of course, for an amateur review, you’d expect this. It would have been much better if you saved the wall of text and just jumped to your conclusion though, since everything you say is suspect if you start with bias.

I have also written literature and academic reviews; that is part of my life with a background in academics and a job as a researcher. His review was hardly “amateur.” Your response, on the other hand, presents no evidence or interaction with the points he raised. That is decidedly “amateur.” A supercilious disposition is no substitute for meaningful interaction.

Right because I don’t have time to go through it at this time. Real life can prevent people from lengthy responses. I’ve made 3 posts on the forum today, this is my forth.

Let’s take one quick before I have to get back to the real world. In his review the OP claims that nearby events don’t help you fill in hearts. This is news to me since the vast majority of my hearts are completed by nearby events. Anyone who’s played for months and doesn’t know this is simply ignoring what’s going on.

Most events in the area of hearts DO help you fill in hearts. The fact that a couple don’t, mean those events don’t actually have content that pertains to the heart, but so many do, I can’t imagine this was missed accidentally. Not in a thorough review, after months of play.

So yeah, there are errors here, and a few things noted I’d categorically disagree with. But it will have to wait until I can write a lengthy response.

It doesn’t mean a lengthy response isn’t possible.

Vayne.8563:

Let’s take one quick before I have to get back to the real world. In his review the OP claims that nearby events don’t help you fill in hearts. This is news to me since the vast majority of my hearts are completed by nearby events.

?

Erasculio.2914:

When played the way they were meant to be played – someone begins to fill a heart and then an event begins nearby, with event completition also filling the heart – they are actually doable.

You haven’t paid that much attention, have you?

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Let’s take one quick before I have to get back to the real world. In his review the OP claims that nearby events don’t help you fill in hearts. This is news to me since the vast majority of my hearts are completed by nearby events.

?

Erasculio.2914:

When played the way they were meant to be played – someone begins to fill a heart and then an event begins nearby, with event completition also filling the heart – they are actually doable.

You haven’t paid that much attention, have you?

Yep I skimmed due to the aforementioned lack of time. However this is what you DID say:

When the opposite happens – doing nearby events do nothing for the heart – they are just a maddening and pointless grind, much like quest hubs in traditional MMOs (and it speaks a lot about the GW2 community that some people there actually prefer the hearts to the dynamic events).

First most hearts take almost no time at all. This is just silly. Secondly if an event spawns that doesn’t contribute to the heart, which in my experience is ULTRA rare, you have two options. Don’t do the event, or do the event. Seems to me you’re so focused on I must have this heart done, you just DO hearts, where as I almost never DO hearts. Hearts get done as I run through areas.

The problem is you seem to be laboring under the assumption that hearts must be done the first time you pass through an area, and I must do them. Those who play this game as a checklist (which is a choice) are doomed to feel like they’re grinding.

Those who play this game in a more free form manner will see things differently. If you make hearts a chore, you’ll end up doing hearts, where as I complete hearts incidentally often even without events.

Just seems to me that an event spawning near a heart shouldn’t be maddening unless you’re focused on the heart. And hearts were never meant to be the focus.

People like it, love it, hate it, are indifferent about it.

Questions to OP: Why is your review important(meaning: why should this review be taken any more seriously than any other rant)? What is your gaming background? What were some of the games you really enjoyed? What are some games you really didn’t like? Time spent playing? What is your least/ most favored class?

These questions are important to gamers looking for reviews of games. If you’re just another schlub why should anyone care?

When I say that the review is amateur let’s just look at the conclusions reached:

Guild Wars 2 failed. By ArenaNet’s own definition of success, “Is it fun?”, the answer often is “no, it’s not”. Good for them that the community of grinders that fill this (and all other) MMO are not really interested in fun.

Unless you’re one of the shock jock type of reviewers, that review negatively because that’s your schtick (and most professions don’t consider those reviewers professional reviewers, they’re just entertainers of a sort), no self-respecting reviewer would ever publish these words.

Guild Wars 2 failed in a sentence by itself is not only demonstrably untrue (and can’t have failed, because it’s still selling). In addition, any fair-minded reviewer would know that fun is a matter of personal taste and what one finds fun, others wouldn’t find fun. It’s fun for a lot of people and it’s not fun for a lot of others. A profession reviewer might say I didn’t find it fun or it wasn’t fun for me.

Even the line about grind is a matter of opinion. Anyone with HALF an open mind will look around and see myriad posts from different people (not just white knights) that say the grind is voluntary or I don’t see grind or I don’t feel like I’m grinding.

I once wrote a book review about a vampire novel. I don’t generally like vampire novels and said so in my review up front, then proceed to give an impartial review, ignoring my bias.

These sorts of conclusions (no matter what the OP claims) are simply personal preferences stated as fact. And that is not what makes a good review. Maybe if he said my opinion instead of my review…but you know…there’s a lot of stuff in this article I could contest, and may.

Right now, I’m waiting for my wife, since it’s Mother’s Day in Australia and that’s a whole lot more important than this.

Jaall.3420:

And the amount of bugs in this game, plus how slow ArenaNet is in fixing them, is not something you see in good games.

Name one MMO that is bug-free. Just one. Bugs are a part of the game, and you very conveniently failed to mention the ones they did fix in a timely manner, such as 99% of dynamic event bugs. And by the way, their patches occur once every month or so, so if it takes a month to fix a bug, that’s literally as fast as it can get.

You spend almost an entire page’s worth of content complaining about the community. You know, those people who are reading this review right now? Blatantly insulting your readers like that is a sign of immaturity, and an inability to be impartial.

The review itself completely misses several key points, such as the guild system, sPvP (which is a whole new set of issues), which the review even admits he didn’t even try,

You want a diminishing returns system in the trading post? And exactly how would that work? The more items you buy the more they cost? What if I’m buying tons of copper ore to level crafting?

MasterGeese.4756:

Name one MMO that is bug-free. Just one.

Hello Kitty Online.

Spendingallmytime.7249:

MasterGeese.4756:

Name one MMO that is bug-free. Just one.

Hello Kitty Online.

I know you’re joking. Here’s a list of the Hello Kitty Online known bugs:

http://wiki.hellokittyonline.com/index.php/Known_bugs

Some interesting generalities, lacking in accuracy as broad sweeping statements about groups of people generally are, combine with some factual inaccuracies to make the entire review suspect.

Creeper.9360:

there are raids in GW2, just not instanced raids

and they are a joke….

Tons of people mindlessly hitting an HP sponge boss that does 2 or 3 things and dont stand in the red….yet large groups of random people cant even get that right.

Instanced raids allow for greater mechanics and bossfights…were communication and coordination are key to win…

Angelus.1042:

Creeper.9360:

there are raids in GW2, just not instanced raids

and they are a joke….

Tons of people mindlessly hitting an HP sponge boss that does 2 or 3 things and dont stand in the red….yet large groups of random people cant even get that right.

Reminds me of WoW raids

kokiman.2364:

Angelus.1042:

Creeper.9360:

there are raids in GW2, just not instanced raids

and they are a joke….

Tons of people mindlessly hitting an HP sponge boss that does 2 or 3 things and dont stand in the red….yet large groups of random people cant even get that right.

Reminds me of WoW raids

This is true….WoW has LFR (Looking for raid) nwhich has turned most raids into casual raiding for people to pretty much pull a “GW2” on the raid bosses…. they dont need to pay attention to mechanincs cause in LFR they dont exist (mostly)…much like GW2 “World Raid” bosses.

However normal mode and heroic mode are still challenging and require a major ammount of communication and coordination…for current content.

So in response to your comment yes it reminds me to of a WOW LFR Casual raid…. but not normal or heroic.

Here’s the thing, TC, if you want anyone to take what you’ve got to say seriously you’ve got to let objectivity, not subjectivity, shape your review. You failed to do so, and so it’s hard for open-minded people to put in stock in what you’ve got to say. In the future, if you base your reviews in objectivity you’ll make better traction with those who read them, whether or not they agree with your final judgment.

Erasculio.2914:

Jack of Tears.9458:

A tip from me to you: Long does not mean better, it just means long. Nobody wants to go to a game review site and read all that.

And here’s a tip from me to you: Short does not mean better, it just means short. Saying “people are too lazy to read” is not the same as proving that a given piece of text needs to be more concise.

Except, it does, because the only way you’re going to market your review is if it’s something a magazine or web page believes people will read. It’s a pretty unrealistic expectation that people are going to read four pages of text on a game that has already been released; especially when most of it isn’t actually saying anything.

But, you want to prove me wrong? Link me to a reputable game review site once they’ve purchased your piece.

Angelus.1042:

kokiman.2364:

Angelus.1042:

Creeper.9360:

there are raids in GW2, just not instanced raids

and they are a joke….

Tons of people mindlessly hitting an HP sponge boss that does 2 or 3 things and dont stand in the red….yet large groups of random people cant even get that right.

Reminds me of WoW raids

This is true….WoW has LFR (Looking for raid) nwhich has turned most raids into casual raiding for people to pretty much pull a “GW2” on the raid bosses…. they dont need to pay attention to mechanincs cause in LFR they dont exist (mostly)…much like GW2 “World Raid” bosses.

However normal mode and heroic mode are still challenging and require a major ammount of communication and coordination…for current content.

So in response to your comment yes it reminds me to of a WOW LFR Casual raid…. but not normal or heroic.

Well I did ICC and up until LK itself it was pretty much a simple “dance” (not talking about HC though)

I’m not going to comment much on most of the review… agreed with some, not with most. I’m not really sure the point of writing a review anyway. Generally the point of reviews is to give people an idea of what the game is like and whether they would be interested in playing or not. Since everyone here is obviously already playing, with some probably having even more experience, it seems… how do I put it? Born into futility. Perhaps this is just a way to work out your frustration, I’m not sure. Maybe you were looking for a shoulder to cry on. Some soul you could find a common bond of hate with. Whatever the reason, I’m guessing it was ill considered. If your goal was to actually improve the game that would be one thing. It would be better served in smaller suggestions in the appropriate forums and with, you know, solutions rather then an expression of general malaise.

But I was disappointed when you characterized the Guild Wars community in such a negative way. Not only does it generally discredit everything you’re saying, showing you to be rather petty and not as thoughtful as you would like us to believe, but from my experience it’s not even close to the truth. Sure the Forums tend to get negative; that’s what forums are for. Often they’re an outlet of negativity. When someone has a bad experience in game they log off, write an angry post, let themselves cool off and then log back on as if nothing had happened. I’ve been tempted to do it (although thankfully usually my wife talks me out of it). It’s cathartic. And there are those who are just looking for attention. Like someone who writes a twenty page review complaining about a game that has been out for seven months for people who have also been playing the game for at least that long.

But for the most part, in game, I’ve found the Guild Wars community to be friendly, funny, and even on occasion kind. I’ve only had one really bad experience in a PUG since release, which was almost a weekly occurrence back in the first year of GW1. Maybe I’m lucky, but past experience teaches me that I’m not.

This was no review, it is a long rant/troll and I am stuck on the hook :P

This is my little review.

Story:
This story starts of like a J-RPG with a little quest where you have to do something for yourself or a friend, like finding your sister or figuring out who has tempered with your robot. But the deeper you get into the story the more you learn about The Vigil, Order of Whispers and The Priory and from there even more concerningt matters unfold.

The story is very interesting with a few choises that helps the replay value for an alt, compared to other games where your choises changes the dialogue Guild Wars 2’s storyline will take you on another paths. Even so you will be able to take your friends with you in your story or even do the same story together.
Voiceover are good but not a hundred percent, but even here compared to other games where Voiceovers doesn’t exist, it is alot better and if you don’t like the voiceover you can just disable it.

Gameplay:
Event’s; One thing I first noticed was thay no NPC’s where handing out quests wich was pretty nice, instead there are Tasks placed around the world, these tasks are active once you get near a tasks area and you will se a notification of what have to be done to compleate this task, like killing enemies, collecting stuff or busting stuff. However, compared to other games quests tasks will have more options to what has to be done to compleate, if you don’t like killing 40 of one kind of monsters then you can go bust some jars instead, or you could do both and compleate it quicker.

Leveling; For those who like leveling there are 80 levels to gain in GW2 compared to 20 levels in GW1, but that is actually mostly visual since Guild Wars series is not a level game and what I mean with that is what makes you good is player skills and how you have configured traits and skills for your caracter, this may seem hard in the beginning where you will probobly end up dieing to enemies with almost only one hit.
What is necessary to learn about this game is that there are not Tanks, Healers or DPSers, more that matters is to learn your enemies attack patter, to know when to strike and when to dodge.

Controlls:
The controls in this game is far by the best of any MMO games I have played, as I mentioned above you have to dodge alot and just by tapping your walking buttons you will dodge that way or you could just press a single key to dodge at your heading.
Dodge is as effective as visible so during your dodge you will evade all attacks.
Every fight is very mobile it’s not like many other MMO’s where you go up to your target and press your numbers in PvE and every hit count’s so always be sure to move around.

Music:
The music is wonderfull, with tunes from GW1 and some new ones and it gives me a chill, but just as every MMO I play sadly enough after a few days the music is turned of and Spotify is playing instead, but I actully had music on everytime I played in the ‘Super Adventure Box’ event since I love 8-bit music.

Summarize:
I have played many MMO’s I can’t say I know what I am talking about but I have some experience and to know that I was playing another MMO for six-years without any breaks and I wasn’t sure if I wanted to play GW2 in the first place, but my fianceé baught it to me and herself and now I am trapped and I haven’t played that other MMO very much since I got GW2 (at release).
Guild Wars 2 is something new and I know that there are lot’s of you who don’t like this new concept but take your time to learn how to play Guild Wars 2 and don’t compare it to other MMO’s to much.

My advice to all of you who listens and base their decision to Reviews, don’t listen to them since what way you ever puts it, it’s just their opinion and not yours and it doesn’t matter if 98% hates it, you could be one of the 2%.

MY REVIEW OF OP’s REVIEW

Small mind, huge ego, clearly written by someone who thinks too highly of himself.
Thinks he has a point, but really doesn’t.
Grasps for straws.

Here you go OP, you earned this:
http://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0

Vayne.8563:

Hearts get done as I run through areas.

That’s rose colored glasses. You speak as if you could do all events just by playing normally in the areas around them, and that is factually wrong. For example, the heart about trading objects with a group of friendly Ettins: you can play normally in that area as much as you want, but unless you stop to “DO the heart”, you will never actually get it done.

Vayne.8563:

Even the line about grind is a matter of opinion.

Do you understand what a review is?

Or, to make it short, can you think of any good review in which the reviewer does not state his/her opinion? In fact, can you point any good review that is not based around the reviewer’s opinions?

Jack of Tears.9458:

It’s a pretty unrealistic expectation that people are going to read four pages of text on a game that has already been released

Back in 2007, I wrote a long list of suggestions for GW2, considerably longer than this review. At the time, the community actually discussed the content, instead of wasting time discussing lenght. This is one more example of how the GW2 community is inferior to the GW1 community.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

I’m not really sure the point of writing a review anyway (…) But I was disappointed when you characterized the Guild Wars community in such a negative way.

The conclusion to your own line of thought is the answer to your question. This review is not for the community; why would I bother writing something for it? The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong. Replying to the community’s rants serves the purpose of keeping this in a place where it’s more likely ArenaNet will see it.

Erasculio.2914:

Go in game and watch. Take a look at how many players are farming dynamic events in Cursed Shores; compare that to how many players are just playing in any other map in the game. Try to find a group for story mode in a dungeon that is not farmed, and compare that to finding a group for CoF path 1. See how many players do the Dragon events, and then tell me how many players you see just exploring the world.

All those examples make it clear that grinders are in very higher numbers than real players. This has a very clear impact on ArenaNet – Ascended gear is just a huge grind, Fractals are basically a huge grind, the loudest complaint in the forum a while ago was about the lack of drops, etc, etc.

MMORPGs have been designed to cater to grinders (and that is actually a fact, not just my opinion, unlike most other things I have said here). The original Guild Wars had less of a focus on grind, at least until GW:EN. GW2 is catering to grinders, and as such it has a community of addicts, who care more about their next “fix” than about having fun. Like I said above, it’s a pity that ArenaNet made a game in which it’s so easy to play with other people, and then filled it with people you don’t want to play with.

1:27 – The biggest lie ever!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Hearts get done as I run through areas.

That’s rose colored glasses. You speak as if you could do all events just by playing normally in the areas around them, and that is factually wrong. For example, the heart about trading objects with a group of friendly Ettins: you can play normally in that area as much as you want, but unless you stop to “DO the heart”, you will never actually get it done.

They are Jotun, not Ettins, and cases like that are so few that are barely noticable, how many hearts exist in the game, and how many cannot be filled while doing events around them? Do the math, it’s not hard.

Vayne.8563:

Even the line about grind is a matter of opinion.

Or, to make it short, can you think of any good review in which the reviewer does not state his/her opinion? In fact, can you point any good review that is not based around the reviewer’s opinions?

I read reviews here sometimes: http://www.gamespot.com/ They are usually objective and at least over proper critisism and valid arguments. You didn’t. But most importantly this isn’t a review site, these are the official forums, you are expected to answer back when people quote you and prove you wrong, you didn’t, you are afraid or have no counter-arguments, therefore your arguments were weak to begin with.