Guild Wars 2

Erasculio.2914:

The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong.

Really? Really?

So when you say “the community is really bad”
and “the community of GW2 players is deeply flawed”
and “It speaks wonders about how bad the GW2 community is”
and “One of Guild Wars 2’s main issues is its community”
and “again showing how such a great community it is” you’re just telling ArenaNet what they’ve done wrong?

Yeah, sure you are.

Erasculio.2914:

Vayne.8563:

Hearts get done as I run through areas.

That’s rose colored glasses. You speak as if you could do all events just by playing normally in the areas around them, and that is factually wrong. For example, the heart about trading objects with a group of friendly Ettins: you can play normally in that area as much as you want, but unless you stop to “DO the heart”, you will never actually get it done.

Vayne.8563:

Even the line about grind is a matter of opinion.

Do you understand what a review is?

Or, to make it short, can you think of any good review in which the reviewer does not state his/her opinion? In fact, can you point any good review that is not based around the reviewer’s opinions?

Jack of Tears.9458:

It’s a pretty unrealistic expectation that people are going to read four pages of text on a game that has already been released

Back in 2007, I wrote a long list of suggestions for GW2, considerably longer than this review. At the time, the community actually discussed the content, instead of wasting time discussing lenght. This is one more example of how the GW2 community is inferior to the GW1 community.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

I’m not really sure the point of writing a review anyway (…) But I was disappointed when you characterized the Guild Wars community in such a negative way.

The conclusion to your own line of thought is the answer to your question. This review is not for the community; why would I bother writing something for it? The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong. Replying to the community’s rants serves the purpose of keeping this in a place where it’s more likely ArenaNet will see it.

I can pull up many reviews were reviewers state their opinions AS opinions. Never have I see a book or game review just use the word fail. And this particular review fails on many levels.

No matter how much you say you don’t have an agenda, you do. For example, in your response to me you pull out 1 heart out of hundreds. Maybe there are a dozen such hearts, but a dozen such hearts out of hundreds do NOT warrant the treatment you gave hearts. It’s disingenuous at best.

It doesn’t matter. It’s clear to anyone with half a brain that you wrote the entire review because you don’t like the game. You couldn’t have written the review an decided you didn’t like the game while writing it, because that’s not how it works. Either you like the game or you don’t when you started writing the review. You’re trying to convince us that somehow, in the process of writing the review, you found you didn’t like the game.

There are many people who write reviews for all sorts of purposes. Many reviews are written just to push an agenda. I never bothered reviewing this game on the forums, or anywhere else for that matter, because I know that different people have different tastes and that’s one thing your review doesn’t take into account.

By all accounts, your idea of what a good game is and that of other people’s is very different. But since you didn’t bother saying what you find a good game to be, you draw conclusions that can only be seen as biased.

And you know, every good reviewer has biases. But many have trained themselves to leave those biases at the door, or at least to declare them.

In the end your "review’ is nothing more than your opinion of a game you feel disenfranchised with.

The truth of that matter is simple. If you had no agenda, and you didn’t like the game, you’d just go play another. Writing multiple pages without an agenda about a game you’ve decided you don’t like doesn’t really make sense.

Unless of course we were to assume you were trolling and I’d never accuse you of that.

Stars,
too long 5/5
indulgent 5/5
biased 5/5
well done.

Erasculio.2914:

Back in 2007, I wrote a long list of suggestions for GW2, considerably longer than this review. At the time, the community actually discussed the content, instead of wasting time discussing lenght. This is one more example of how the GW2 community is inferior to the GW1 community.

So, six years ago, well before much of anything was known about the game, you wrote a list of suggestions which sparked discussion about a mostly hypothetical sequel. Yes, that’s exactly the same thing.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Erasculio.2914:

Back in 2007, I wrote a long list of suggestions for GW2, considerably longer than this review. At the time, the community actually discussed the content, instead of wasting time discussing lenght. This is one more example of how the GW2 community is inferior to the GW1 community.

So, six years ago, well before much of anything was known about the game, you wrote a list of suggestions which sparked discussion about a mostly hypothetical sequel. Yes, that’s exactly the same thing.

Except that I was part of the Guild Wars 1 community so that’s where it all falls apart. Maybe it’s not the fact that you wrote this “review” that’s the problem but how obviously biased it is. If it wasn’t so biased, people maybe would have given you a fair shake of the stick.

But it is biased and they haven’t. Frankly, I’d be more disappointed with a community that let a review like this pass with no scrutiny.

i thought the review was well thought out and I enjoyed reading it. I think if ArenaNet were to hire the author they’d likely get a lot of fresh, innovative ideas for their game. What I took away from the review was this message: Don’t settle for the status quo, this game could be so much better than the run of the mill MMOs out there. I agree with that.

Ignore all the kitten replies and just carry on OP. This review is spot on.

The review is perfect BRAVO
10/10

I agree with almost everything OP.

Except Fractals being bad. Fractals was the only dungeon that was actually great, challenging and rewarding.

Everything else is pure garbage. Nobody plays Dynamic Events.

I’ve always hated when they said “Endgame? We have plenty, look at all our dynamic events!!”

Yeah, well, just because I say my Sandwich is a Pizza, it doesn’t make it a Pizza. It’s still a sandwich.

Just cuz you call Dynamic Events “Endgame”, it doesn’t make it endgame. It’s still just a method of leveling, and it should by no means at all be expanded upon, when the rest of the game is falling short.

Rika.7249:

Nobody plays Dynamic Events.

In what game? Because in the game called Guild Wars 2 players do play Dynamic Events.

maddoctor.2738:

Rika.7249:

Nobody plays Dynamic Events.

In what game? Because in the game called Guild Wars 2 players do play Dynamic Events.

I was going to say, “nobody but me, you mean … me and the other people I see doing the Dynamic Events … nobody but us”.

darkace.8925:

Erasculio.2914:

The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong.

Really? Really?

So when you say “the community is really bad”
and “the community of GW2 players is deeply flawed”
and “It speaks wonders about how bad the GW2 community is”
and “One of Guild Wars 2’s main issues is its community”
and “again showing how such a great community it is” you’re just telling ArenaNet what they’ve done wrong?

Yeah, sure you are.

What I find rather insulting, due to its intolerance, is that he thinks the community is wrong because it doesn’t agree with his own point of views. Also, he sees “the community” as an evil entity with an “MMO agenda”, rather than as individuals. There are always elitists and grinders in this type of game-, but I’d bet there’s less in here than in many other games. I generally don’t like the classic MMO culture either, but he also puts me in the same bag as the “grinders/farmers” just because I can’t agree with his general overview of the game. I hate it when people can’t be allowed to disagree in peace-when people must be called “flawed” (“flawed community”) when they don’t agree with each other views.

People should learn to accept that it’s OK to have personal opinions, but that even if they are strong ones, they aren’t “facts” for everybody else involved. That’ other people also have equally valid opinions, even if they may be different than ours.

Fun is a subjective value. To say, for instance “the game is not fun” simply means it wasn’t fun to him. But the review is aimed to discourage people from investing on the game (almost “rant-style”), just because it wasn’t fun to him. It isn’t mean to inform, but to discourage, based on strong disappointment/dislike for the game, and based on unmet personal expectations rather than a fair game appraisal. It’s OK to point out when something is not fun to us, of course, but there’s a not-so-hidden hate/biased agenda in this review.

And frankly, there’s a lot of elitism by hating on the community and seeing it as the embodiment of “MMO evil.” Hating MMO elitism by being another elitist-even though one of a different kind-is rather ironic. I don’t hate the OP, but I can’t agree with the condescendence with which he treats anyone that disagrees with his almighty views. All things considered, this community is probably among the less toxic out there, though I admit I don’t have the time or drive to play any other MMO games to put my statement to the test.

GW1 was a great game, and not an MMO. GW2 was never advertised to be it’s clone, “made even better”. There were so many indications that this game would be different. Whether you like that or not, you have to come to terms with it. GW2 is not “wrong” for not being like GW1, because it never had to be, especially since it’s another type of game.

GW1 was (is), once more, a wonderful game IMHO, but we shouldn’t let nostalgia and unmet expectations (“I wish the game was more like I expected it to be”) cloud the way we see GW2. In the end, it is valid to believe that GW2 isn’t the game for you as a lover of GW1, but a)many GW1 players that LOVED GW1 ALSO love this one, and b)not liking GW2 for whatever valid personal reason doesn’t mean the game “sucks”-or “isn’t fun”-at all on its own.

(In a way, this game is good for the “evil MMO” community in the sense that it “teaches” that it’s possible to have fun in one without necessarily resorting to being jerks towards each other. The cooperative/“non-selfish” elements in GW2 are really amazing, IMO, and jerks will be jerks at their own risk-the game really doesn’t encourage the practice at all.)

(This is not directed to any person in particular)

You know, I wish people who don’t like the game just… leave.

No dramatics, no complaining, just close the door and walk out.

These kinds of threads discourages new players from trying the game (and in the end, hurting the game itself) and what delayed me from trying it out myself for several months. I suggest mods to start locking/deleting these kinds of threads since it isn’t productive, useful and just bring about useless arguments/debate.

The game is not perfect, not everything will appeal for everyone but it does not mean it is bad. For example, I don’t like jumping puzzles so I rather not do them but I don’t consider the game bad for having it (and I thank all the mes who give me ports so I don’t have to do them).

I think what this game has is a little of everything for everyone. Personally, I think the community in general and as a whole, are awesome especially compared to other MMO I have played before (and I have played a lot since the first MMO… senior moment). And yes, the community and the game CAN be better but I believe it is on the right track.

Mods do lock, remove a lot. It is the weekend and they are not in full force. I also wish people would just find something else they enjoy.

Zolkitten.6241:

(This is not directed to any person in particular)

You know, I wish people who don’t like the game just… leave.

No dramatics, no complaining, just close the door and walk out.

These kinds of threads discourages new players from trying the game (and in the end, hurting the game itself) and what delayed me from trying it out myself for several months. I suggest mods to start locking/deleting these kinds of threads since it isn’t productive, useful and just bring about useless arguments/debate.

The game is not perfect, not everything will appeal for everyone but it does not mean it is bad. For example, I don’t like jumping puzzles so I rather not do them but I don’t consider the game bad for having it (and I thank all the mes who give me ports so I don’t have to do them).

I think what this game has is a little of everything for everyone. Personally, I think the community in general and as a whole, are awesome especially compared to other MMO I have played before (and I have played a lot since the first MMO… senior moment). And yes, the community and the game CAN be better but I believe it is on the right track.

Too long, but I read it
I agree with almost everything and yes I think too that the community is far from being constituted of casual gamers looking for fun. (Imo)The game itself is no longer for that target.
And those who think differently I suspect are hardcore or casual who will leave in the long term.
But I don’t think it “failed”, mostly we can say it is failing for people like you and me OP :/
Grinding for stats and flipping in TP while anet is flip-flopping their politics is what the majority want otherwise we could not explain how it came to this.
Just deal with it and wait to see if something will be reverted, if not, move on. ;D

Can’t speak for you Erick, sorry it’s not working out, but I’m a casual gamer and still having a blast; just got doing 4-5 DEs in a row with another dozen people and it was a real good time. (not ta mention this is the first time I saw a particular event fail and have to go into overtime)

But, I admit that I did relax and not play for most of January because I’d burned myself out on it a bit. Great thing is, I could do that and come back without feeling guilty I’d wasted any money on a game I wasn’t playing (which I would if I were paying a sub fee) or that I’d have fallen behind and not be able to “catch back up”.

Things like Fractals and Ascended gear aren’t required to enjoy the game and I’m betting alotta casual players don’t worry too much about either. I tried Fractals once, was kinda meh on it (mostly because of a bad group) and haven’t bothered going back … and I don’t feel like I’ve missed a thing. You’re right, though, Fractals is there for people who want to grind – it came out during a point in the game when a huge number of people were demanding some kind of grindfest, and Anet gave it to them. They didn’t change the whole game, didn’t ruin anyone else’s fun, just put a pretty neat dungeon in there with a climbing difficulty for people who are into that. We should be saying “Thank you, Anet”, not crying over it. (and, yes, Thank you Anet)

I’m a pretty casual gamer – usually a couple days a week – but that still carried me through every one of the GW1 expansions (and GWEN, I was hovering over that buy button when GWEN came out) and gave me years of fun. I expect the same from GW 2 and so far it isn’t disappointing me.

A good test to see whether the critics of this review are serious is to have them post links to what they consider objective reviews of GW2 that end with a generally negative impression of the game.

If they cannot, then all this anger amounts to faux outrage. What is really upsetting to them is that someone criticized the game, not that someone did it in an “biased” manner.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

A good test to see whether the critics of this review are serious is to have them post links to what they consider objective reviews of GW2 that end with a generally negative impression of the game.

If they cannot, then all this anger amounts to faux outrage. What is really upsetting to them is that someone criticized the game, not that someone did it in an “biased” manner.

Actually, there was a negative review on this forum, in which I agreed with four of the five of the authors points. It’s not about just what he says, but as usually how he says it.

What kind of reviewer says this game failed. It’s a ridiculous thing for any reviewer to say. I dont’ like it, sure. It’s not for me, sure. I didn’t find it fun. Sure.

It failed. It’s not fun. Sorry but that’s simply not legit.

Dante.1508:

Erasculio.2914:

Conclusion

Guild Wars 2 failed. By ArenaNet’s own definition of success, “Is it fun?”, the answer often is “no, it’s not”. Good for them that the community of grinders that fill this (and all other) MMO are not really interested in fun.

My advice is: play through the tutorial, and then go explore the world. Do all the interesting dynamic events you find, admire the beautifully crafted world, listen to all the ambient dialogues, dig through all the lore you can find; do that from the starting areas all the way to right before you enter Orr. Ignore hearts, the personal story, dungeons, and definitely ignore the “lesser” aspects of the game (trading, crafting, item acquisition, etc). Once you have explored everything other than Orr, leave the game and never look back.

Summed it up pretty well, lotta typing for no reason but hey i agree with what you said, Play the basics and move on, sadly this isn’t how you’re supposed to enjoy a mmo but ok..even more sadly this is how GW2 should be done apparently..

^^ SADLY this how how all the good players feel. And if you dont feel like this then your more than welcome to do CoF for the 1.000.000th time.
Nine months (and still waiting) for profession bug fixes that have been around (and known about) since beta. And NO fix – In fact most of the time its a denial that a bug exists and it takes the community to show the devs that it does.
WvWvW is sadly so broken its beyond a joke. – But they could of captured a Big market here – if they got it right.
mods can delete and give infractions out so why cant they comment ‘dev xxxxxx is aware of this bug and is working on it high priority’ instead of being ignored.
I think the sour grapes comes from the players that have been around since pre/launch and see the same (if not more) Profession bugs whilst soooo much (sometimes epic fail) Temporary content has been added (and removed).. . . . . YES bugs exist in a lot of games but there should NOT be class/profession related bugs NEVER EVER. Whilst bugs exist like this pvp will NEVER work.

EDIT:
Has this game failed? . . . keep a track of your ‘friends’ achievement points (to see who doesnt play anymore), check the social networking sites for GW2 and other games, check the gaming community and see what people are playing, check the share values for ncsoft. Then when YOU have all the information you will have the answer

I enjoyed (most) of the game and got my moneys worth for hrs played – but meh they dont care – so why should I?

Under Web.2497:

^^ SADLY this how how all the good players feel.

No, this is how you feel because you’re upset with the game. I’m not even gonna ask how you decide if a player qualifies as “good” or “bad” because you’re opinion of my playstyle means nothing. Again, though, these random sweeping statements are based in nothing but your personal opinion and bias – which is fine, but don’t try to lump everyone in the same pile as you.

What kind of reviewer says this game failed. It’s a ridiculous thing for any reviewer to say. I dont’ like it, sure. It’s not for me, sure. I didn’t find it fun. Sure.

It failed. It’s not fun. Sorry but that’s simply not legit.

As I suspected. The issue is not the manner, but the conclusion.

This whole affair reminds me of the Diablo III debacle. The game was successful—in that it sold a lot and made some casuals happy. Yet on all important metrics—as a proper sequel to Diablo II, a deep and well-written story, balanced combat and skills, intriguing class design, lasting gameplay—is was a resounding failure. Yet people were upset on those forums when anyone dared suggest it had failed.

GW2 has failed in a similar way. Its major saving grace is that there is actually room for improvement, whereas Diablo III is beyond redemption at this stage.

To Jack:
If ascended items were intended to appeal just fractal runners then devs should have created them only for that area of the game.
And if you still don’t see the gap between exotic and ascended wait untill all the sets (armors + weapons) will be out. ç_ç
I fear that if things will stay like this you will no more be able to take a break without being left behind.
All this without considering the will to raise the level cap and adding new tiers that could limit the versatility of our characters.
Even now it’s too difficult (unlike in GW1) to get different kind of stats for our “incomplete” ascended equip.
I fear that casual players will be slowly screwed.
In conclusion… I like to play more than 1 chara… so I’m already screwed at the current state of the game

i dont even know how this thread still exists. If you dont like the game man just leave. No one is forcing you to play and the people that DO like it post positive feedback and criticism to help the game improve in certain areas that need improvement. This game may not be for everyone as not all games are, but if you don’t like it…posting on the forum with a long kitten review that doesn’t do anything for anyone wont help at all. Just leave if you don’t like it.

maddoctor.2738:

Rika.7249:

Nobody plays Dynamic Events.

In what game? Because in the game called Guild Wars 2 players do play Dynamic Events.

Really? Where? Last I checked in the game Guild Wars 2, every zone was empty with the small exception of Dragon Events and sometimes if you’re lucky, Orr events.

So yeah. Nobody plays it.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

What kind of reviewer says this game failed. It’s a ridiculous thing for any reviewer to say. I dont’ like it, sure. It’s not for me, sure. I didn’t find it fun. Sure.

It failed. It’s not fun. Sorry but that’s simply not legit.

As I suspected. The issue is not the manner, but the conclusion.

This whole affair reminds me of the Diablo III debacle. The game was successful—in that it sold a lot and made some casuals happy. Yet on all important metrics—as a proper sequel to Diablo II, a deep and well-written story, balanced combat and skills, intriguing class design, lasting gameplay—is was a resounding failure. Yet people were upset on those forums when anyone dared suggest it had failed.

GW2 has failed in a similar way. Its major saving grace is that there is actually room for improvement, whereas Diablo III is beyond redemption at this stage.

I’m sorry but the debacle that was Diablo 3 has nothing to do with Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 has far more positive reviews than negative reviews.

Take a site like Meta-critic. Guild Wars 2 9.0 by reviewers and 8.0 by users.

Diablo 3….8.8 by professional reviewers 3.8 by users.

Anyone comparing this to Diablo 3 is being completely disingenuous.

SWTOR was 5.7 on meta-critic.

This is more indicative of how the public sees the game, rather than what you see on forums. Why? Because it’s just a sampling of the general public. It’s only 2126 ratings for Guild Wars 2, but you know, this guys review and the five guys who agreed with him have been met with just as many if not more who haven’t.

You have no evidence that this is a failed game. You can only say it failed for you.

Holyblesserx.7618:

i dont even know how this thread still exists. If you dont like the game man just leave. No one is forcing you to play and the people that DO like it post positive feedback and criticism to help the game improve in certain areas that need improvement. This game may not be for everyone as not all games are, but if you don’t like it…posting on the forum with a long kitten review that doesn’t do anything for anyone wont help at all. Just leave if you don’t like it.

Tread exist cause this people care about the game end only like to GW2 be successful .
The core of the game is great… just need some tweaks to get it to the next level …

Erick Alastor.3917:

To Jack:
If ascended items were intended to appeal just fractal runners then devs should have created them only for that area of the game.
And if you still don’t see the gap between exotic and ascended wait untill all the sets (armors + weapons) will be out. ç_ç
I fear that if things will stay like this you will no more be able to take a break without being left behind.
All this without considering the will to raise the level cap and adding new tiers that could limit the versatility of our characters.
Even now it’s too difficult (unlike in GW1) to get different kind of stats for our “incomplete” ascended equip.
I fear that casual players will be slowly screwed.
In conclusion… I like to play more than 1 chara… so I’m already screwed at the current state of the game

There are MANY, MANY players that have tons of alts and don’t feel screwed/are actually having fun without the “need” to equip all of their characters with full sets of fully infused, ascended trinkets. Why are you the exception? Answer: you don’t really need that stuff. Go for it if you want, but don’t blame the game for “requiring it” for ALL your alts, because it’s not required for even one character.

I know what the weaknesses of the Ascended gear system are-I never agreed with its implementation. But the argument “ascended gear is too grindy to be able fully equip all my alts” has no substance-no offense intended-because you don’t need to do so at all (the “everything is optional” argument also has no weight, so please don’t invoke it.)

Rika.7249:

Really? Where? Last I checked in the game Guild Wars 2, every zone was empty with the small exception of Dragon Events and sometimes if you’re lucky, Orr events.

So yeah. Nobody plays it.

About two hours ago I did 5+ DEs in a row in Queensdale with around a dozen other people; everyone seemed to be having a good time so far as I could tell.

Thursday I signed in and did a couple DEs in Diesa Plateau with a half dozen people or so.

Last time I was in Orr we did 4-5 of them in a row, about 20 of us that time.

So it’s probably just your server or the time of day you’re playing.

Jack of Tears.9458:

Under Web.2497:

^^ SADLY this how how all the good players feel.

No, this is how you feel because you’re upset with the game. I’m not even gonna ask how you decide if a player qualifies as “good” or “bad” because you’re opinion of my playstyle means nothing. Again, though, these random sweeping statements are based in nothing but your personal opinion and bias – which is fine, but don’t try to lump everyone in the same pile as you.

Indeed; I hate this kind of logic: “if somebody disagrees with my all mighty, all wise point of view, he/she must be flawed/bad at the game, because he/she doesn’t have the ability to see things the way I do.” It all amounts to immaturity-no offense to my readers-“if I can’t have things my way, everybody else sucks, and I’ll take the ball home-nobody will play if it isn’t my way!” It’s totally fair to not like GW2, but from there to say that everybody that doesn’t see “the problems” with the game must be a bad player, is not only quite the stretch, but EXTREMELY arrogant.

Rika.7249:

maddoctor.2738:

Rika.7249:

Nobody plays Dynamic Events.

In what game? Because in the game called Guild Wars 2 players do play Dynamic Events.

Really? Where? Last I checked in the game Guild Wars 2, every zone was empty with the small exception of Dragon Events and sometimes if you’re lucky, Orr events.

So yeah. Nobody plays it.

Search again

Last time I checked around the starter zones it was full of people, Diessa too, Frostgorge events are being done around with or without Jormag, Fields of Ruin had a healthy amount of players around and even in Brisban Wildlands I was finding lots of players doing events. Harathi Hinterlands is another great option if you want to find loads of people. Gendaran Fields, Kessex Hills and certain parts of Snowden also have people. Mount Maelstrom attracts lots of players doing the Destroyer chain inside the Volcano, even though the chest hasn’t been updated yet.

I don’t know what exactly you wanted, a huge amount of people, like the ones doing a dragon event roaming and doing random events? That’s impossible, and not even healthy for the game.

Going around the Guild Challenge/Guild Rush areas is bound to allow you to meet lots of people doing them, you can join in the fun. Pay some attention to map chat and you will find that lots of zones have people doing events in them, you might not find people everywhere you go all the time, but that doesn’t mean the zone is empty, a good example is a Gargantula event in Harathi Hinterlands that is mostly left alone, because it has a very very short cooldown, that doesn’t make the zone empty, go a bit to the north and you will find lots of players.

Zones that could certainly need a lot of help are Lornar’s Pass, Timberline Falls, Sparkfly Fen (even with Tequatl around), Malchor’s Leap, Iron Marches and on top of all, Southsun Cove, obviously they are fixing that with the Living Story, making it the focus of attention. They could easily shift the focus of the players on rarely visited zones, and they are doing that, Diessa was mostly empty before the F&F update, now it’s full of people.

Star Ace.5207:

There are MANY, MANY players that have tons of alts and don’t feel screwed/are actually having fun without the “need” to equip all of their characters with full sets of fully infused, ascended trinkets. Why are you the exception? Answer: you don’t really need that stuff. Go for it if you want, but don’t blame the game for “requiring it” for ALL your alts, because it’s not required for even one character.

I know what the weaknesses of the Ascended gear system are-I never agreed with its implementation. But the argument “ascended gear is too grindy to be able fully equip all my alts” has no substance-no offense intended-because you don’t need to do so at all (the “everything is optional” argument also has no weight, so please don’t invoke it.)

This is a list of “type of statements” I collected on this forum:
01. Why do you want to grind? Take your time and take great screenshots of butterflies.
02. There is no grind!
03. There is grind, but not as mush as in “put a random mmoprg name”.
04. Do you want to have all top items with zero effort?1!1!1!111
05. If time and being on equal gear footing is so important, go do some sPvP.
06. You can’t have all you want!
07. Join a bigger guild.
08. Ascended are not mandatory for anything!
09. No one is forcing you to get Ascended gear or even grind for it. If you don’t find it its fun, don’t do it.
10. You need Ascended only for Fractal. Stop QQ!
11. You can play everything equipping just green stuff…
12. I can solo Lupicus with my whites, L2P noob.
13. Go back to play Gw1 this game is not for ya.
14. Stop being a casual gamer, you should be ashamed of yourself.

And not a single one of these make sense to me.
In my PoW there should be ZERO difference in stats between a guy who play few hours a day and the 24/24-7/7 hardcore player, fullstop.
Why A LOT of people relying on fulldps? Is it mandatory? We can say no, but then why so many party with that set? Because it’is efficient, working even with pugs.
Why so many party formed by almost all warriors? Is it mandatory? No… but again…
And even if is it true that ppl will always find way to perpetrate elitism, there is a difference in a biased self assumption based on nothing than ignorance, and a fact.
Ascended are stronger than exotic.
At the current stage can a good player cover the gap between ascended and exotic?
I think the answer is “maybe”.
In the next future when the full ascended set will be out, it will still possible for a skilled player in exotic being performing like a skilled player equipping ascended gears?
I think the answer is no.
I want to be a burden for my teammates if I lack of skills, but not if I lack of time.
This is all I think :*

Erick Alastor.3917:

Star Ace.5207:

There are MANY, MANY players that have tons of alts and don’t feel screwed/are actually having fun without the “need” to equip all of their characters with full sets of fully infused, ascended trinkets. Why are you the exception? Answer: you don’t really need that stuff. Go for it if you want, but don’t blame the game for “requiring it” for ALL your alts, because it’s not required for even one character.

I know what the weaknesses of the Ascended gear system are-I never agreed with its implementation. But the argument “ascended gear is too grindy to be able fully equip all my alts” has no substance-no offense intended-because you don’t need to do so at all (the “everything is optional” argument also has no weight, so please don’t invoke it.)

This is a list of “type of statements” I collected on this forum:
01. Why do you want to grind? Take your time and take great screenshots of butterflies.
02. There is no grind!
03. There is grind, but not as mush as in “put a random mmoprg name”.
04. Do you want to have all top items with zero effort?1!1!1!111
05. If time and being on equal gear footing is so important, go do some sPvP.
06. You can’t have all you want!
07. Join a bigger guild.
08. Ascended are not mandatory for anything!
09. No one is forcing you to get Ascended gear or even grind for it. If you don’t find it its fun, don’t do it.
10. You need Ascended only for Fractal. Stop QQ!
11. You can play everything equipping just green stuff…
12. I can solo Lupicus with my whites, L2P noob.
13. Go back to play Gw1 this game is not for ya.
14. Stop being a casual gamer, you should be ashamed of yourself.

And not a single one of these make sense to me.
In my PoW there should be ZERO difference in stats between a guy who play few hours a day and the 24/24-7/7 hardcore player, fullstop.
Why A LOT of people relying on fulldps? Is it mandatory? We can say no, but then why so many party with that set? Because it’is efficient, working even with pugs.
Why so many party formed by almost all warriors? Is it mandatory? No… but again…
And even if is it true that ppl will always find way to perpetrate elitism, there is a difference in a biased self assumption based on nothing than ignorance, and a fact.
Ascended are stronger than exotic.
At the current stage can a good player cover the gap between ascended and exotic?
I think the answer is “maybe”.
In the next future when the full ascended set will be out, it will still possible for a skilled player in exotic being performing like a skilled player equipping ascended gears?
I think the answer is no.
I want to be a burden for my teammates if I lack of skills, but not if I lack of time.
This is all I think :*

See there are different types of players who play games for different types of reasons. For the type of game you play or want to play this game is lacking. For me, the type of game you’d want to play would be lacking for me. This is why Guild Wars 2 hasn’t failed.

There are a lot of games out there for people like you. There is, currently, one game for a player like me. And since I’m obviously not the only player like me, this is the only game that will do…at least so far.

This means that players like you will be divided over dozens of new games, but for players like me, Guild Wars 2 has, at this time, a monopoly.

Which is why it isn’t failing. Only players who play like you would think so.

Erick Alastor.3917:

Star Ace.5207:

There are MANY, MANY players that have tons of alts and don’t feel screwed/are actually having fun without the “need” to equip all of their characters with full sets of fully infused, ascended trinkets. Why are you the exception? Answer: you don’t really need that stuff. Go for it if you want, but don’t blame the game for “requiring it” for ALL your alts, because it’s not required for even one character.

I know what the weaknesses of the Ascended gear system are-I never agreed with its implementation. But the argument “ascended gear is too grindy to be able fully equip all my alts” has no substance-no offense intended-because you don’t need to do so at all (the “everything is optional” argument also has no weight, so please don’t invoke it.)

This is a list of “type of statements” I collected on this forum:
01. Why do you want to grind? Take your time and take great screenshots of butterflies.
02. There is no grind!
03. There is grind, but not as mush as in “put a random mmoprg name”.
04. Do you want to have all top items with zero effort?1!1!1!111
05. If time and being on equal gear footing is so important, go do some sPvP.
06. You can’t have all you want!
07. Join a bigger guild.
08. Ascended are not mandatory for anything!
09. No one is forcing you to get Ascended gear or even grind for it. If you don’t find it its fun, don’t do it.
10. You need Ascended only for Fractal. Stop QQ!
11. You can play everything equipping just green stuff…
12. I can solo Lupicus with my whites, L2P noob.
13. Go back to play Gw1 this game is not for ya.
14. Stop being a casual gamer, you should be ashamed of yourself.

And not a single one of these make sense to me.
In my PoW there should be ZERO difference in stats between a guy who play few hours a day and the 24/24-7/7 hardcore player, fullstop.
Why A LOT of people relying on fulldps? Is it mandatory? We can say no, but then why so many party with that set? Because it’is efficient, working even with pugs.
Why so many party formed by almost all warriors? Is it mandatory? No… but again…
And even if is it true that ppl will always find way to perpetrate elitism, there is a difference in a biased self assumption based on nothing than ignorance, and a fact.
Ascended are stronger than exotic.
At the current stage can a good player cover the gap between ascended and exotic?
I think the answer is “maybe”.
In the next future when the full ascended set will be out, it will still possible for a skilled player in exotic being performing like a skilled player equipping ascended gears?
I think the answer is no.
I want to be a burden for my teammates if I lack of skills, but not if I lack of time.
This is all I think :*

Some of your numbered comments don’t make sense, but some do. For instance, you don’t really need Ascended stuff. You just want it because it’s “best-in-slot”. I disagreed with its implementation for the same reasons you do, but the difference is that I do not care, while you do (not that I am “better” than you for not caring, mind you.)

I also didn’t understand the correlation between DPS CoF 1 Warrior/Mesmer runners and Ascended stuff. It’s not mandatory, and nobody will make me user Berserker’s gear on my Warrior if I don’t want to. Wholly optional grind-CoF 1 is too easy for people to “require” anything in the first place (ignore, and be happy.)

Perhaps I didn’t get your point, so please do not be offended.

Erasculio.2914:

Do you understand what a review is?

Or, to make it short, can you think of any good review in which the reviewer does not state his/her opinion? In fact, can you point any good review that is not based around the reviewer’s opinions?

a good reviewer doesn’t give a biased opinion. You got half your facts wrong including your own suggestions in them – that’s not a review at all.
Good reviewer also doesn’t talk about the community of the game, because a) it has nothing to do with how good/ bad the game is, because developers have no control over it b) because nobody else is stupid enough to press over 3 million people into the same template.

Erasculio.2914:

Back in 2007, I wrote a long list of suggestions for GW2, considerably longer than this review. At the time, the community actually discussed the content, instead of wasting time discussing lenght. This is one more example of how the GW2 community is inferior to the GW1 community.

Once again you’re judging over 3 million people because of 1 or 2 people. With you repeating to us about how bad we are I’m getting seriously insulted and close to reporting your posts for simply being insulting.

Erasculio.2914:

The conclusion to your own line of thought is the answer to your question. This review is not for the community; why would I bother writing something for it? The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong. Replying to the community’s rants serves the purpose of keeping this in a place where it’s more likely ArenaNet will see it.

If you wanted to tell Anet about how “bad” their players are you could have sent them an email. You instead posted a public thread telling the community how bad they are. I personally think that as a person you’re disgusting and think too highly of yourself. Stop it, because you know why? You belong to Guild Wars 2 community as well.

Rika.7249:

Really? Where? Last I checked in the game Guild Wars 2, every zone was empty with the small exception of Dragon Events and sometimes if you’re lucky, Orr events.

So yeah. Nobody plays it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-expansion-1Q-Ncsoft-Conference-Call/first#post2011639
That’s why they’re doing well enough on sales to not need an expansion yet and that’s why I can find plenty of players in all zones.

On topic: What a load of opinion!
On the way in which I, as a member of the GW1 community, feels about being complimented on how wonderful we were in the past: Thank you OP, your high regard for us is appreciated and totally agreed with.
As a member of the GW2 community, who actually agrees with a little of what you say, and disagrees with much more (because I still play DEs on my lvl80s [3 so far] as I pass through any zones) while I am enjoying my gaming 9 months in: Why does what you say count for squat?
You imply (state actually) that I am a lesser person than I used to be.
You say that I am only grinding, because I like that pain: – I occasionaly spend a little time running the same events for a couple of hours with friends because we are having a laugh (communicating!!) while we do so.
You say we are not good players unless we moan and groan, whimper and whine (OK, he didn’t actually say that bit:) about how bad the game is.
Please keep your false opinions about me to yourself and I will not call you a self-important winkitten.

I agree explorations is hardly rewarding. It was the first month, you could go out and find treasure chests in places and get a rare or exotic because they had a champion protecting it. (do you really think Champions would be defending a box full of copper, some blues and maybe a green item? spssh not!)

tigirius.9014:

I agree explorations is hardly rewarding. It was the first month, you could go out and find treasure chests in places and get a rare or exotic because they had a champion protecting it. (do you really think Champions would be defending a box full of copper, some blues and maybe a green item? spssh not!)

I don’t remember this happening. I remember both champion and chest loot being nicely broken from the start. You know what the only difference regarding loot is? Map boss event loot got fixed. That’s it.

tigirius.9014:

I agree explorations is hardly rewarding. It was the first month, you could go out and find treasure chests in places and get a rare or exotic because they had a champion protecting it. (do you really think Champions would be defending a box full of copper, some blues and maybe a green item? spssh not!)

No it wasn’t during the first month, loot drops from Champions and world chests are exactly the same, despite Anet saying they buffed Champion loot. What actually changed is the addition of the guarandeed rare chest in World Boss events, nothing else.

Erick Alastor.3917:

And not a single one of these make sense to me.
In my PoW there should be ZERO difference in stats between a guy who play few hours a day and the 24/24-7/7 hardcore player, fullstop.
Why A LOT of people relying on fulldps? Is it mandatory? We can say no, but then why so many party with that set? Because it’is efficient, working even with pugs.
Why so many party formed by almost all warriors? Is it mandatory? No… but again…
And even if is it true that ppl will always find way to perpetrate elitism, there is a difference in a biased self assumption based on nothing than ignorance, and a fact.
Ascended are stronger than exotic.
At the current stage can a good player cover the gap between ascended and exotic?
I think the answer is “maybe”.
In the next future when the full ascended set will be out, it will still possible for a skilled player in exotic being performing like a skilled player equipping ascended gears?
I think the answer is no.
I want to be a burden for my teammates if I lack of skills, but not if I lack of time.
This is all I think :*

Your “numbered” statements don’t make any sense so I won’t comment on those, where you got them is anyone’s guess.

There IS zero difference in stats between someone who plays a few hours each day and a hardcore 24/7 player, getting top gear is ridiculously easy. Oh right you want to get it by it dropping from the sky while you are chatting with your friends? Sadly that’s not an option.

You are confusing the WHOLE game with CoF P1 speedruns. Hey parties are “Warrior Zerker only” for CoF p1 speedruns, it’s the end of the world, why does everyone, everywhere use those? Faulty logic, it doesn’t work that way at all everywhere else, the game is not only CoF P1 speedruns.

How do you get Ascended gear? I don’t see anything that actually requires “pro” skills or even to have full Exotics beforehand in order to get Ascended gear, I repeat again, it’s one of the easiest ways to acquire BiS gear in a game.

As for Ascended vs Exotic, tell that to the pro Magic Find crowd, they are using gear with equal stats to Greens (not even Rares, if you do the math) and say they can compete easily with people with full Exotics. Funny, there is no reason not to believe them that a player’s skill CAN make the difference, even between Ascended and Exotics.

Vayne.8563:

I’m sorry but the debacle that was Diablo 3 has nothing to do with Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 has far more positive reviews than negative reviews.

I explained how I was using that analogy. You ignored that explanation.

Take a site like Meta-critic. Guild Wars 2 9.0 by reviewers and 8.0 by users.

Diablo 3….8.8 by professional reviewers 3.8 by users.

Which is irrelevant to how I used that comparison.

“Failure” is not judged by popularity on review sites. And reviewers, “professional” or otherwise, are notoriously premature, judging games by the initial content, often after only a few hours of play. You don’t realize that GW2 has shallow and incomplete gameplay until you reach the higher levels and end game content, where the lack of depth, disappointing personal story arc and poor class and abilities design comes shining through.

Anyone comparing this to Diablo 3 is being completely disingenuous.

Prejudicial hyperbole based on a false interpretation of my comments.

You have no evidence that this is a failed game. You can only say it failed for you.

I have stated the kind of evidence I used to evaluate whether it failed or not, both here (in passing) and elsewhere in more detail. You have ignored this in favor of shaming tactics where you dismiss those who disagree with you as amateurish, silly, ignorant and dishonest. That is not useful for meaningful discussion and demonstrates a lack of respect for people you disagree with.

GW2 failed on some of the most important metrics that define lasting classics. That some casuals enjoy it is fine; more power to them. But it’s only true “success” is that it has done a good job catering to some casuals and the gambling instincts of whales via RNG box rewards.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Take a site like Meta-critic. Guild Wars 2 9.0 by reviewers and 8.0 by users.

Diablo 3….8.8 by professional reviewers 3.8 by users.

Which is irrelevant to how I used that comparison.

“Failure” is not judged by popularity on review sites. And reviewers, “professional” or otherwise, are notoriously premature, judging games by the initial content, often after only a few hours of play. You don’t realize that GW2 has shallow and incomplete gameplay until you reach the higher levels and end game content, where the lack of depth, disappointing personal story arc and poor class and abilities design comes shining through.

And you failed to notice that guild wars 2 is rated 8 by players, Diablo 3 is rated 3.8 by players. When players give high rating, it’s kind of obvious that the game did not fail.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

GW2 failed on some of the most important metrics that define lasting classics. That some casuals enjoy it is fine; more power to them. But it’s only true “success” is that it has done a good job catering to some casuals and the gambling instincts of whales via RNG box rewards.

So I’m either a casual or a whale? Well done insulting people.

Vayne.8563:

See there are different types of players who play games for different types of reasons. For the type of game you play or want to play this game is lacking. For me, the type of game you’d want to play would be lacking for me. This is why Guild Wars 2 hasn’t failed.

There are a lot of games out there for people like you. There is, currently, one game for a player like me. And since I’m obviously not the only player like me, this is the only game that will do…at least so far.

This means that players like you will be divided over dozens of new games, but for players like me, Guild Wars 2 has, at this time, a monopoly.

Which is why it isn’t failing. Only players who play like you would think so.

Don’t know what you’re talking about so: have fun.
p.s. I never told GW2 is failing

Star Ace.5207:

Some of your numbered comments don’t make sense, but some do. For instance, you don’t really need Ascended stuff. You just want it because it’s “best-in-slot”. I disagreed with its implementation for the same reasons you do, but the difference is that I do not care, while you do (not that I am “better” than you for not caring, mind you.)

I also didn’t understand the correlation between DPS CoF 1 Warrior/Mesmer runners and Ascended stuff. It’s not mandatory, and nobody will make me user Berserker’s gear on my Warrior if I don’t want to. Wholly optional grind-CoF 1 is too easy for people to “require” anything in the first place (ignore, and be happy.)
Perhaps I didn’t get your point, so please do not be offended.

No offense! :*
DPS CoF is just a random example, in Gw1 I never used a single premade build.
I like to play my game too
But I have to acknowledge that dps is really important in many part of this game, this is a fact (untill future changes to degen), likewise is a fact that ascended are stronger than exotics, this was the correlation that I meant.
Given two player’s of roughly equivalent skill, gear will be the factor that decides the outcome in almost every case, where the gear differs in power level.
I simply don’t like this. Do I want best-in-slot? Yes, BUT not to be stronger than others, just to be on par with them.
If I could chose I would like to play a game even without any level, but I understand why a lot of people would think that a mmorpg like that is not a mmorpg or even a meaningless game.

Be a casual whale! The two groups are not exclusionary, unlike the polarised opinions shown in this thread.

Mirta.5029:

And you failed to notice that guild wars 2 is rated 8 by players, Diablo 3 is rated 3.8 by players. When players give high rating, it’s kind of obvious that the game did not fail.

Yawn. Not only did I explicitly address that in my previous response, it’s irrelevant to the point I was making when I compared the two games.

So I’m either a casual or a whale? Well done insulting people.

It was a generalization. I have no idea what you are.

Stop taking it so personally.

It seems some of the Anet employees don’t like this review. Op you must be doing something right if Anet employees log into their game accounts to defend the game against your review ;-)

Erasculio.2914:

The conclusion to your own line of thought is the answer to your question. This review is not for the community; why would I bother writing something for it? The purpose of this review is to tell ArenaNet what they have done wrong. Replying to the community’s rants serves the purpose of keeping this in a place where it’s more likely ArenaNet will see it.

You’re trying to tell Anet about things:
a) most people don’t really care about
b) most people disagree with you about

If that is the case then I feel obliged to inform you that your “review” was nothing more than a humongous waste of time. I don’t think telling “what Anet has done wrong” was really your original purpose.

If on the flipside you’re trying to tell the community what you think, then that’s less of a waste of time.

maddoctor.2738:

Your “numbered” statements don’t make any sense so I won’t comment on those, where you got them is anyone’s guess.

[…] Oh right you want to get it by it dropping from the sky while you are chatting with your friends? Sadly that’s not an option. […]

04. Do you want to have all top items with zero effort?1!1!1!111
Where I got them, eh? ._.

Those are statements of players who like to give easy answers instead of pondering a little more. I never intended what you’re saying, but I suppose that in that moment you thought that exist only the current game or a game where all is given for free to the players.

I’ll quote this user to make an example of how we could be rewarded:

Wahii.5310:

[…] Here is my simple solution: a new vendor that exchanges current game currencies for laurels. The exchange rate would be balanced such that 1 laurel would still require a significant amount of effort, but could be obtained by doing what you enjoy while playing.

This vendor would exchange 1 laurel for the following currency:
-Karma
-Gold
-Dungeon and fractal tokens
-Badges of honor
-Guild commendations
*laurels will now also be awarded for map completions

In addition, all ascended gear would now only be bought with laurels.

Now, you spend your time (as much and whenever you want) doing what you enjoy and still make progress towards your ascended gear. Like to explore?…you get laurels for that. Only play WvW?…laurels for that. Like to make tons of gold playing the trading post?…laurels for that. Have lots of real money sitting around and like buying gems?…yep laurels for that too.
[…]

darkace.8925:

and “again showing how such a great community it is” you’re just telling ArenaNet what they’ve done wrong?

Yes.

The community is dominated by grinders and exploiters because ArenaNet introduced multiple systems in the game catering to those players, instead of following their stated goal of trying to cater to the opposite group (those who do not usually like MMOs). It’s laughable to think that the design of a game does not influence what kind of community it will have. ArenaNet has some ways to deal with this issue, such as changing the design or at least making the game require less reliance on other players (so someone could just ignore the bad community).

Vayne.8563:

Never have I see a book or game review just use the word fail.

Wrong. Pick an example of a game review using the word fail:

https://www.google.com.br/search?q=review+ign+"the+game+fails"

Do you see a pattern here? You claimed I said dynamic events do not count for hearts, and you were wrong. You claimed all hearts could be achieved by playing around them instead of actively doing them, and you were wrong. You claimed game reviews don’t use the word “fail”, and you were wrong.

Let me teach you a few things: a review is someone’s opinion. You can trust a review based either on knowing the reviewer and sharing the same tastes (which is only known after following a reviewer for quite some time), or based on the arguments used in the review. Saying “this game has bad graphics because it has too much pink and I hate pink” is as much an opinion as saying “this game has bad graphics because it is filled with clipping, and is using an outdated engine that renders obsolete textures”, but the latter has better arguments in which to stand.

My review is filled with arguments about why I have my opinions about the game. You cannot counter those arguments, or you would have tried to so. Instead, all you have left is to attack the format, using the good old “it’s just your opinion” as if it had any weight.

And that… Well, that’s a failure. As long as you cannot remove the blocks supporting my conclusion, you won’t be able to show why it would be wrong.

Zolkitten.6241:

(This is not directed to any person in particular)

You know, I wish people who don’t like the game just… leave.

No dramatics, no complaining, just close the door and walk out.

These kinds of threads discourages new players from trying the game (and in the end, hurting the game itself) and what delayed me from trying it out myself for several months. I suggest mods to start locking/deleting these kinds of threads since it isn’t productive, useful and just bring about useless arguments/debate.

If you ask anyone who has any kind of criticism to leave, you will end only with those who think the game is perfect. And those actually hurt the game – they are delusional (no game is perfect), and by not telling the developers how to improve, they prevent the game from ever reaching its true potential.

There is a huge difference between constructive criticism and whining. Unfortunately, fanboys cannot see this difference, and as such try to silence anyone who thinks differently.

Heijincks.9267:

You’re trying to tell Anet about things:
a) most people don’t really care about
b) most people disagree with you about

I’m rather curious as to how you know what “most people” think.

Erasculio.2914:

I’m rather curious as to how you know what “most people” think.

The same way you know what “the community” is… speculation and generalization and a glaring absence of objectivity, logic, or fact.

Erasculio.2914:

The community is dominated by grinders and exploiters because ArenaNet introduced multiple systems in the game catering to those players, instead of following their stated goal of trying to cater to the opposite group (those who do not usually like MMOs)

Where is your proof? I see the exact opposite, except outside the gates of cof. What are you basing this on because it is false.

Do you see a pattern here? You claimed I said hearts do not count for dynamic events, and you were wrong. You claimed all hearts could be achieved by playing around them instead of actively doing them, and you were wrong. You claimed game reviews don’t use the word “fail”, and you were wrong.

Hearts do not count for dynamic events, that’s a fact. You can achieve most hearts by doing dynamic events near them (except for 2-3 out of 301 hearts) that’s also a fact. On all these occasions you were proven wrong and yet you dare try to claim the opposite? And you still haven’t answered to many quotes on the first page, can’t stand the truth? Or out of arguments completely?

My review is filled with arguments about why I have my opinions about the game. You cannot counter those arguments, or you would have tried to so. Instead, all you have left is to attack the format, using the good old “it’s just your opinion” as if it had any weight.

Check the quotes on page 1 and try to answer the counter arguments.

If you ask anyone who has any kind of criticism to leave, you will end only with those who think the game is perfect. And those actually hurt the game – they are delusional (no game is perfect), and by not telling the developers how to improve, they prevent the game from ever reaching its true potential.

Constructive critisim is always needed, but be ready to accept the critisism to your critisism. As no game is perfect, no arguments are perfect either.